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LukeS_MM

Feedback on Evernote

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Apparently the Evernote staff wants me to make this complaint public instead of an email to the company to a help desk. Here's my feedback on evernote:

I used to LOVE evernote. It was so useful in Middleschool/Highschool, but now I'm in Senior year of highschool taking a lot of AP and college classes. I've come to the realization of how bad Evernote is. This product is 99% pay to use at this point. I can't have more than 2 devices now (before it was 3 or unlimited?)?! Upload limits are even more restricted?! Hello???? I have 4-5 devices which I NEED to sync! Dear Evernote staff, you must realize that the computer production business is an extremely competitive market. You're not Apple, Microsoft, or Unix. You don't have the significant power over the consumer such as they do. I can just as easily move to Google Drive and GoogleDoc or OneNote with OneCloud. It's just one more step which all students are forced to take in this modern school age. Yes, you may be good for some businesses, however Google Doc now lets multiple users write on the same document- OneDrive lets you share to multiple users, same as iCloud and Dropbox. You're slowly going to be losing scholarly consumers such as myself due to your restrictions and lack of student support. I'm a poor college/highschool student- I can't afford premium prices with a low income/none at all! I would suggest two things: 1) Market to students as well as businesses; this doesn't mean you have to change your program or even business model! Accept student discounts! 2) Allow the free version to be free and useful as well as finding a way to sell your product in a market-to-use solution. How do you think all these "free" companies do it? Google Ads, Ad services, monotization, even donation pages! 

 

All that said, this is my final good-bye, Evernote. I've loved your program, but as of today, I am moving everything to OneNote which I recieved for free; once from my highschool and now with college. Oh, and I should mention, I have 5 FREE AND UNLIMITED downloads with Microsoft Office: so my phone, tablet, laptop, and desktop can all have the same program to sync all my documents with. 

 

-LukeS

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Hello, welcome and goodbye. You should know that this topic has been discussed a great deal by now. Bottom line: if you like Evernote, and find it better/easier to use than other products and can afford it, you might consider paying for it. If you don't want to pay for it, but like it, you can use the free version , with its restrictions. If you don't like it that much, then hopefully you're be happy with some other product. You should attempt to understand that a company deserves to set a price for the products that they make, and Evernote is no different. They've already tried the pretty-much-unlimited freeware thing, and it didn't work well for them. At last report, this new pricing model is working better, You should also know that one of their selling points is that they will not use your data to make money, so no ads, etc.  Good luck with OneNote, many people find it useful (I didn't).

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On 2017-08-30 at 7:05 AM, LukeS_MM said:

This product is 99% pay to use at this point.

The 100% free basic account still exists.  The client software is also free

I'm currently at the premium level, but can see downgrading to the plus level in the future.
The 2 device limit doesn't bother me, but I I'd have a problem with the upload limits.  

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@LukeS_MM, I don't mean to dump on you, but, well, welcome to being a grownup. Lots of stuff works for free when you're younger and your needs are simpler. When you're doing more, you need more, and sooner or later you have to pay. Because Evernote is not Google (taking your personal information and selling it to marketers) or Microsoft (forcing its apps onto every computer manufacturer--and when you really want to do something with those apps, they're, um, not free), if its employees are going to get paychecks then at some point the company has to charge something for its product. Evernote does not snoop into your activity like Google does, so they can't use your info for marketing. Frankly, their basic service offers quite a lot for free. I admit it wouldn't hurt if they had a student subscription price; the going rate is pretty steep for a student.

With best regards,

Granddad :D

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19 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Frankly, their basic service offers quite a lot for free. I admit it wouldn't hurt if they had a student subscription price; the going rate is pretty steep for a student

Maybe that's the Plus level, currently ~$4/month or $35/year.

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29 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

@LukeS_MM, I don't mean to dump on you, but, well, welcome to being a grownup. Lots of stuff works for free when you're younger and your needs are simpler. When you're doing more, you need more, and sooner or later you have to pay. Because Evernote is not Google (taking your personal information and selling it to marketers) or Microsoft (forcing its apps onto every computer manufacturer--and when you really want to do something with those apps, they're, um, not free), if its employees are going to get paychecks then at some point the company has to charge something for its product. Evernote does not snoop into your activity like Google does, so they can't use your info for marketing. Frankly, their basic service offers quite a lot for free. I admit it wouldn't hurt if they had a student subscription price; the going rate is pretty steep for a student.

With best regards,

Granddad :D

I appreciate the comments from everyone- but I'm only going to reply to this one at this point in time. I understand TANSTAAFL, and if there were a reason for me to buy the premium version I would. However I cannot justify spending $35 a year for a program which matches different free programs that most, if not all, highschool/college individuals do not mind using if not over Evernote. My point is that paying money for a redundant copy of something which already has limited abilities is not useful to the modern consumer, that being students. There is no way to export Evernote notes as, say for example, a PDF or similar application (note: I just found that you can import as a OneNote option). Even then, Evernote lacks some features that a lot of other PDF programs, even, include (referring to Xodo, an application for Windows computers). I don't mind spending good money on a program that is useful. If Evernote was outstandingly different  from all other programs with special features unseen elsewhere, I would purchase it. Unfortunately it came to the point of me having to make the decision of purchasing or moving on, to which the latter seemed most appropriate. 

 

Have a wonderful day,

-LukeS

 

Also, any cloud-based service is not "safe". You have no guarantee what the staff will or will not do with your information and notes. It's just an absolute of the modern-day computer use.

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Well, as a student myself I understand being poor but I will still find my own way to earn money to get Evernote. Onenote only feels good when using touchscreen devices along with stylus & even with the change in OneNote inserting pdf with more than 1k page takes some time unlike on Evernote. you will reach the limit when you will have to pay for the storage space on the cloud to store your OneNote and use it on other devices.

( Wasted 1-year using OneNote and ***** up all my notes because in the past I also think about *free* products)

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There's a whole lot of emotions in this thread, but it all comes down to whether Evernote make the right decision from a business standpoint. They don't owe anyone a free service, and MS / Google / etc don't provide the free services out of the goodness of their hearts. They use your data to build a dossier on you and sell to advertisers (Google) or political campaigns (MS). MS is also trying to get more people use it's paid services - which would work far better if they didn't also start being creepy.

Evernote needs free users to grow it's business. But it needs paid users to survive. Whether they made the right move or not will be known in a few years. Currently, so shortly after the change, we still have the effect of many old free / plus users who were deeply entrenched into EN biting the bullet and paying the new premium, so I fully expect EN to have a good year financially. User attrition over time is inevitable for any service, and it will take a few years to see if under the new model EN can overcome the user attrition by signing up new users. Which to me personally seems very iffy.

I still keep a small database in EN just because my wife is very conservative and doesn't like switching to new tools. Basically, cookbooks, user manuals, and family schedules. So the 2 device limit is not an issue, she's the only one using the apps anyway. But I keep 90% of my data in an indexed file folder structure, and so far it's been working very well for me. There's no way that any service, ever, will hold my data ransom or force me to go through a painful export process. I can move my entire 4 GB of data between different providers in 20 minutes + whatever time it takes to sync.

@LukeS_MM I used Onenote for over a year and I moved away from it, too. My kids are in the first year of high school and I got each one of them an iPad. They take notes in Notability or Goodnotes (I happened to acquire both apps over the years) and have them automatically backup to the cloud storage as searchable PDFs. Notability can combine text and voice recording, and has a very decent typed text function as well as handwriting. Goodnotes doesn't have voice recording and has a more basic typed text function, but it automatically OCRs your handwriting and makes it searchable both in the app itself, and in the output PDF.  Both programs are great for PDF annotation, and really good for class note taking. Three more fantastic iOS programs are Scanbot (great for quickly capturing multiple pages, has built in OCR, works well on existing images with text in them, export to cloud or EN can be automated), Goodreader - which can be used as the main database for all of your PDF files, and OfficeSuitePro - works very well with Office documents and can be connected to cloud storage. Or just use the free MS Office apps if you are storing your files in Onedrive.  The cost of all of these programs combined will set you back less than a year of EN, and provide much of it's core functionality. Especially if you use a simple plaintext tagging system.

If you use Google Drive or Onedrive, they will search for text in PDFs and inside images. I don't like either of these services from a privacy standpoint, but they would be great for school related stuff. On the desktop, pretty much every OS now has very good indexing / search capabilities. There's really little reason now to lock yourself into a proprietary container type application, especially if the price is too steep.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

But I keep 90% of my data in an indexed file folder structure, and so far it's been working very well for me. There's no way that any service, ever, will hold my data ransom or force me to go through a painful export process. I can move my entire 4 GB of data between different providers in 20 minutes + whatever time it takes to sync.

I don't have any comment on the rest of your post, but from my perspective what's great about Evernote is not storage but portability. I may do research at a library and scan text with my Android phone using Text Fairy; TF can then share it to Evernote, and it's on my computer when I get home. I may be reading at home with my computer off, or in a meeting somewhere, and get an idea that I'll want to follow up on. A quick note input to Evernote on my phone can then be filed and/or expanded on my desktop or laptop. I assume this is possible using other services as well. But I've gotten used to Evernote, both its strong points and its limitations, and I don't mind the (to me) relatively modest less-than-$1.50/week Premium subscription cost as a professional expense, so I don't feel the urge to go anywhere else. I don't consider this holding my data for ransom, since after all I have it in the synced DB on my desktop and laptop. Just my point of view.

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2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I don't have any comment on the rest of your post, but from my perspective what's great about Evernote is not storage but portability. I may do research at a library and scan text with my Android phone using Text Fairy; TF can then share it to Evernote, and it's on my computer when I get home. I may be reading at home with my computer off, or in a meeting somewhere, and get an idea that I'll want to follow up on. A quick note input to Evernote on my phone can then be filed and/or expanded on my desktop or laptop. I assume this is possible using other services as well. But I've gotten used to Evernote, both its strong points and its limitations, and I don't mind the (to me) relatively modest less-than-$1.50/week Premium subscription cost as a professional expense, so I don't feel the urge to go anywhere else. I don't consider this holding my data for ransom, since after all I have it in the synced DB on my desktop and laptop. Just my point of view.

All of the tools I recommended to LukeS  have settings to automatically save PDF files in predefined cloud locations. Actually, Scanbot can even save directly into Evernote and Onenote, and I am pretty sure that Goodnotes and Notability can be set up to output PDFs to EN / ON using IFTTT.  And of course, once you OCR a photo / image using Scanbot, or automatically create a PDF of your handwritten note using Goodnotes, that resulting document will be searchable / indexable anywhere.

I am not saying that this is a better approach. Every method has it's advantages and disadvantages. Evernote provides a one stop solution with repeatable, familiar interface on all devices, and easy web access. It's expensive as far as services go but not super expensive in the big scheme of things. I quit before the price change, for completely different reasons. My wife still keeps her database because she is used to it (free version, she doesn't really need any of the bells & whistles). It's purely the matter of personal preference. And of course, this forum is still one of the best sources for ideas on going paperless, even if I am no longer using EN.

As to the ransom thing  - this came out too dramatic. Sorry. Let me re-phrase this - I don't want to be overly dependent on any single proprietary format service that at some point may make a change which would make it difficult for me to stay with them, yet at the same time I would be too deeply entrenched to quit. A bunch of PDFs and text and office documents are highly portable and don't bind me to any one service or application. I am somewhat Apple-centric in my tools, but this is just capture methods, the data is pretty much system-agnostic.

The biggest advantage of services like Onenote or Evernote, when they first appeared, was the combination of accessibility, ease of capturing and storing all kinds of data, and indexing search. Now, all of this can be achieved with other tools, and many are free. So they need to reinvent themselves. MS is trying to do it via providing a fairly unique notetaking experience (no other tool comes close to the way in which I could combine text, images, and file attachments in a single note when using ON) and by making Onenote the core tool of any Windows 10 tablet or 2-in-1 device. If I had a Surface, I would keep using ON, it's just too good of a combination. Evernote needs to come up with someting, pronto. Or they will have problems finding new Daves in Decatur who are willing to pay $70/ year - it takes a while for someone to get that embedded into a service, and most new young people coming into this digital market will look at the two-device and 60mb upload limit, look at the competition, shrug, and go elsewhere. Especially now that both Google and Microsoft are very aggressively pushing their respective products in schools and colleges. If you start using Google Docs and Keep, or Office and Onenote when you're 12, and keep using it until you're out of college, why would you want to switch to a similar service that costs $70 a year ?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

They take notes in Notability or Goodnotes

Notability/Goodnotes are great editor apps for the iPad.  I recomend them instead of the Evernote editor for work beyond basic notes

Regardless of the editor, I store the documents in Evernote; it’s my digital file cabinet

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2 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

I don't want to be overly dependent on any single proprietary format service that at some point may make a change which would make it difficult for me to stay with them, yet at the same time I would be too deeply entrenched to quit.

Neither do I. That's why it's good that Evernote can export to non-proprietary HTML, at least the Windows client can. Even ENML (which contains more Evernote metadata) is a documented format. 

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I have posted my fair share of comments about how Evernote, especially the Mac app, has become a bloated mess. That's my complaint, but I'm a paying customer and have been for years. I don't understand how anyone can complain about the limitations of a service they get FOR FREE!

 

Ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, jefito said:

Neither do I. That's why it's good that Evernote can export to non-proprietary HTML, at least the Windows client can. Even ENML (which contains more Evernote metadata) is a documented format. 

HTML was what I used to quit Onenote, however the problem I ran into is that it's a great format to keep reference info in, but not for living documents... at least not for those of us not used to working with HTML files. Of course this is also the only format that would preserve attachments in notes.

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1 hour ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

HTML was what I used to quit Onenote, however the problem I ran into is that it's a great format to keep reference info in, but not for living documents... at least not for those of us not used to working with HTML files. Of course this is also the only format that would preserve attachments in notes.

Sure, HTML (or ENML, if you can process it) as an interim format to preserve your Evernote content (as much as possible) in the process of moving to another application or format. The point was, though, that HTML is a known format that has a lot of tools built up around it, much as PDF or Word format.

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15 hours ago, jefito said:

Sure, HTML (or ENML, if you can process it) as an interim format to preserve your Evernote content (as much as possible) in the process of moving to another application or format. The point was, though, that HTML is a known format that has a lot of tools built up around it, much as PDF or Word format.

Sure, but that "interim process" of moving data from HTML documents with links to attachments into some editable format that would work across different systems is a major PITA even without having years and years and years worth of data. I am also rather surprised at how many services and programs are not properly displaying the HTM files, you'd think this is one of the most standard formats ? E.g. Google Drive just doesn't open them at all (there's a workaround for desktop browser, but on the mobile you pretty much have to manually export them to other apps to simply read the content).

In the hindsight, I should have embedded attachments as "printouts" in the body of notes, and exported them as DOC or PDF files. (Now with a number of free / cheap tools that allow to comment and edit PDF files, using them as "living note" files is easy). Surprisingly, to me at least, one format that's been consistently easy to use across devices and platforms - other than pdf - was Word Documents. As long as I didn't have tables or custom formatting, the links, images, text all get preserved fine. The only thing I am still trying to figure is if it's possible to create local (relative) file links in it. 

 

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15 hours ago, jefito said:

(or ENML, if you can process it)

Just wondering if anyone has a method of processing ENNL files

On Macs, we have access to all the file components of a note; including the .enml file
I can edit the file with a text editor but am unable to process it any further, except for Evernote

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3 hours ago, DTLow said:

Just wondering if anyone has a method of processing ENNL files

On Macs, we have access to all the file components of a note; including the .enml file
I can edit the file with a text editor but am unable to process it any further, except for Evernote

An ENML file contains all of a the content for one or more notes, and some of the metadata (for example, notebook metadata is not included). In order to process ENML files, You'd need to write a program to do it; one that understands the ENML format, which starts with a program that understands XML as well as HTML markup. You'd also need to be able to decode 'binary' content (as in image files that are encoded as text characters). I don't know of any programs that do this sort of processing, but the ENML format is documented, so it is possible...

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3 hours ago, jefito said:

An ENML file contains all of a the content for one or more notes, and some of the metadata...You'd also need to be able to decode 'binary' content (as in image files that are encoded as text characters). 

I think that’s the .enex file (EverNote EXport) which also uses the ENML format

On Macs, the .enml file contains the content for a note, including links to file attachments that are filed separately.  Every note has a content.enml file.  My preference is to keep the attachments as separate files and not embedded

I’m basing this on the note folders stored on the Mac platform.  On other platforms we don’t see .enml files

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I think that’s the .enex file (EverNote EXport) which also uses the ENML format

I refer to the .enex files, which do indeed embed attachments as encoded binary, at least in Windows. Those are the only files I would care about, as those can be produced via scripting, even on Windows, so are convenient backups.

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Yes, I agree, they should set their price point.
The point is, their price point is ludicrous. There is no planet on which its justified to ask for over $80 a year for Notepad+++.
I have just exported my 12 text documents with 300kb of images attached.

I'm sure Evernote devs are rolling in it now... little finger to the edge of their mouths, 2 billion dollars...
Well, if you can find enough suckers to pony up over $80 dollars a year, good luck. I'll just edit these text files with notepad++, at least they only ask for the money once.

Another lost advocate.

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On 5/14/2018 at 9:32 PM, sedman said:

I have just exported my 12 text documents with 300kb of images attached.

If that's all you have in Evernote,  isn't the free Basic version good enough?  And as to the 'price point' issue - my photo handling software costs more than my Evernote subscription and they're both a long way short of some commercial software packages I use.  But if the cost isn't worth it to you,  the choice is easy:  don't pay.

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On 5/14/2018 at 1:32 PM, sedman said:

The point is, their price point is ludicrous.  ... I'm sure Evernote devs are rolling in it now... little finger to the edge of their mouths, ....

There is no charge for the software, and Evernote offers a Basic account at no charge.

I agree, ludicrous.

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On 5/14/2018 at 4:32 PM, sedman said:

I'm sure Evernote devs are rolling in it now... little finger to the edge of their mouths, 2 billion dollars...

You apparently don't know a lot about how businesses operate. You really think that the developers get all the money? And servers are free after all, right? *shrug*

Well, if you can find enough suckers to pony up over $80 dollars a year, good luck. I'll just edit these text files with notepad++, at least they only ask for the money once.

Sure, I use Notepad++ too -- it's a great text editor, and worth paying for.

But I use Evernote for collecting other, non-text information, it has organizational facilities that make sense to me, and it syncs through their servers and is available to me wherever I am. Servers cost money, and the service is worth it to me. Call me a sucker if you wish, but your opinion doesn't mean all that much to me, not least of all because you don't seem to understand that the free version -- as in 'free beer' would probably work fine for your use case. Even so, I hope you have good luck with whatever you choose to replace Evernote with.

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