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Richard Beddard

Relying solely on Web

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Hi there, my last Windows PC has blown up and now we only have Chromebooks and smartphones. This means I'm entirely dependent on Evernote Web and Apps. I have a huge database, and no local copy. This is obviously somewhat unsafe. It would be nice to have a local copy of the database so I could in a disaster situation recover it. Three obvious solutions spring to mind:

1. Buy a Windows PC or a Mac solely for Evernote (not a great prospect as I really can't be bothered with those systems!)

2. Is it possible to download a database without a local client just for backup purposes (I would worry about what to restore it on when the time comes!)

3. I believe it's possible to sync your database directly from cloud to cloud service i.e. Google/Dropbox. Has anybody done this reliably?

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5 minutes ago, Richard Beddard said:

I believe it's possible to sync your database directly from cloud to cloud service i.e. Google/Dropbox. Has anybody done this reliably?

Take a look at cloudHQ; they provide a cloud sync service with Evernote

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I'm definitely biased, but I've never understood why people trust a third party cloud service to backup the Evernote cloud service, especially now that Evernote is hosted in the Google Cloud. I just don't understand the purpose. You're better off buying Evernote Premium so you have the Note History capability if you ever accidentally delete some data. I literally used Note History 5 minutes ago to retrieve something I mistakenly removed from a note yesterday. Works great! I'm not denigrating anyone's choices, I'm simply perplexed as to the point of the extra effort and cost of creating hard backups of data that lives in the cloud (redundant servers around the world)

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59 minutes ago, briancaldwell said:

I'm definitely biased, but I've never understood why people trust a third party cloud service to backup the Evernote cloud service, especially now that Evernote is hosted in the Google Cloud. I just don't understand the purpose.

I'm also a fan of Note History and use it often.  I trust Evernote with my data, and have faith in Evernote's control and backup procedures

However, I also backup my data.  

  • When my data is deleted/expunged, Note History is also deleted.  I can retrieve the deleted data from my backups.
  • If Evernote can't be accessed, I can still access my data using my backups

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8 hours ago, briancaldwell said:

I'm definitely biased, but I've never understood why people trust a third party cloud service to backup the Evernote cloud service, especially now that Evernote is hosted in the Google Cloud. I just don't understand the purpose. You're better off buying Evernote Premium so you have the Note History capability if you ever accidentally delete some data. I literally used Note History 5 minutes ago to retrieve something I mistakenly removed from a note yesterday. Works great! I'm not denigrating anyone's choices, I'm simply perplexed as to the point of the extra effort and cost of creating hard backups of data that lives in the cloud (redundant servers around the world)

 

Sorry, I think putting your eggs in one basket is a terrible solution and irresponsible too. My data should be my responsibility and that includes back ups.

Here's a scenario, might never happen but it's just one suggestion. Evernote go out of business suddenly, the board discover a whole warehouse of Libin designed socks in Japan and decide to shut the company. There isn't enough cash to pay Google and so Google do what any other business would do and close down access to their cloud. Now, I don't have any access to the Evernote/Google cloud or my notes. Without a local copy (and backups), I'm screwed.

Here's another scenario, the Evernote/Google cloud is subject to a malicious attack, billions of notes are deleted, overwritten, corrupted. Yes, you might be able to recover, but how long will it take? How long till I am back up and running with my key data? Am I at the beginning of the queue? The end? Somewhere in the middle? I've got no idea and no control.

There are endless scenarios like this that could occur, the world and the web are pretty horrible places, and there are lots of malicious and stupid people out there.

So, I'll stick to taking some responsibility for my own stuff.

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11 hours ago, briancaldwell said:

I'm not denigrating anyone's choices, I'm simply perplexed as to the point of the extra effort and cost of creating hard backups of data that lives in the cloud (redundant servers around the world)

 
 

I'm perplexed why an Evernote employee would make this statement. Especially when many of his customers store years of very important data inside Evernote. 

CBS news reported:
"Corporate America is an easy mark for hackers as we are repeatedly reminded in the news," John Graham, director of the research and a professor at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business, said in a statement. "However, it is not just big firms like Target that are being hit - 85 percent of smaller firms are also under siege. No one appears safe. The situation may even be worse than reported because many firms might not even realize that they have been attacked."
 

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13 hours ago, briancaldwell said:

I'm simply perplexed as to the point of the extra effort and cost of creating hard backups of data that lives in the cloud (redundant servers around the world)

It is a matter of trust.  Many of us don't 100% trust cloud storage.  If it works perfectly then great, but when it doesn't, we have a personal backup to use.  I think maintaining personal data backups is just prudent.  For companies that use Evernote for business purposes, I think it would be especially foolhardy not to.

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Another reason for backups is accidental deletes.  EN cloud data isn't of much use if you can't get an oops delete out of it.  So periodic, encrypted ENEX notebook backups to a secondary service fit the bill, for me anyway.

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...what they said.  Also:  I believe in the Cromwell principle - Trust in <insert name of preferred deity or cloud provider here> ... but keep your powder dry.

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16 hours ago, jbenson2 said:

Especially when many of his customers store years of very important data inside Evernote. 

I've been a user since 2008, but only an employee since 2010. Nine years of my very important personal data lives in Evernote as well as my Evernote Business data. I trust our Cloud and our Security, but I also use Time Machine to back up my Mac's at home so I do have a bit of local protection for my EN database. What I don't do is export all my notes as ENEX and stash them on a local hard drive on a regular basis, or stuff them into a cloud storage system like Google Drive. There is nothing wrong with being overly safe, but I have not seen the need to go to this extra step.

It's weird though because I have four copies of my photos archive because it's a lifetime of work. For this, I have a fire safe, offsite physical storage and two local, redundant drives. 

Everyone has their own personal level of paranoia, I suppose. We're all human (most of us anyway)

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13 hours ago, briancaldwell said:

Everyone has their own personal level of paranoia, I suppose. We're all human (most of us anyway)

I sincerely appreciate your open and honest comments about Evernote data security.  Your viewpoint gives me more confidence in the program. You are in the same league as Dave Engberg, Heather Wilde, and Andrew Sinkov.  Thank you

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Time Machine works by just plugging in an external drive. Why Mac users don't use this perplexes me, because it is about as close to effortless as you can get (wi-fi external drives would presumably be completely effortless, though I haven't bought one to try). You can also make things a bit more complex, if you are a bit paranoid (like me).

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=962

As a general rule of thumb, I would strongly recommend against relying entirely on a third party to take care of your data. I respect Brian's opinion (one of the few Evernote employees left that I've actually met in person, too), but in my experience (documented on this forum if anyone wants to dig around), Evernote has lost or deleted my data in the past (including note histories, which bizarrely were overwriting the newer data in 2011), so I'm not comfortable putting all of my eggs into one basket (or any third party's basket, for that matter) .

I don't want to exaggerate the issue -- I've been a user from the beginning (back in 2008), so that's a lot of time to run across problems, and I haven't lost a whole lot of data over the last decade or so, especially with Time Machine to save me (ever since I switched to a Mac about seven years ago). I can't think of anything I've lost with my backup system (see link above), so I'm pretty pleased with the workflow I've got, and (like Brian) comfortable with Evernote's reliability and security.

However, as Gazumped suggested, but in different words: "prepare for the worst and hope for the best." This goes along with the old adage: "an ounce of preparation is worth a pound of cure." If you use Time Machine (for Mac folks) to take responsibility for protecting your data, you can rest easy knowing that everything is in your hands no matter what happens (take, for example, the horror stories about ransomware -- all avoidable with a backup solution like Time Machine). 

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