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Chad CEO

iOS 8.2 Does Not Display Double Line Spacing Format

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Hi there,

I have several notes that use double spacing. On the web editor, the formatting is perfect.

However, now the mobile app reads the formatting as single line spacing.

Will you guys be able to fix this? Or, are you guys forcing us all to change every note to single spacing in order to work with the mobile app?

Thank You,

Chad

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Hi.  We're not Evernote as such here,  just a (mostly) user-supported forum.  If you have an issue with a new release,  it's always better to post in the release thread - developers will watch that for feedback...

 

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On 4/12/2017 at 0:52 AM, Chad CEO said:

Hi there,

I have several notes that use double spacing. On the web editor, the formatting is perfect.

However, now the mobile app reads the formatting as single line spacing.

Will you guys be able to fix this? Or, are you guys forcing us all to change every note to single spacing in order to work with the mobile app?

Thank You,

Chad

Hey there, this is definitely not by design. I am the engineering manager for the team that builds the note editor on all platforms, so I can figure this out for you. Could you provide an ENEX file or more details on how you created the note originally, and I will look into why this is happening.

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4 minutes ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

Hey there, this is definitely not by design. I am the engineering manager for the team that builds the note editor on all platforms, so I can figure this out for you. Could you provide an ENEX file or more details on how you created the note originally, and I will look into why this is happening.

Hi Jonathan,

I can copy and paste my formatting into a note. You can analyze it from there. What's the best way to share this with you. I'm on the web version so I don't think I can get you an ENEX file.

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Would you like to call me? I can explain it in details what is happening. I'm familiar with EOL formatting and could help you out. I have an idea of what is going on.

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49 minutes ago, Chad CEO said:

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

Were you able to duplicate the issue?

Thank You,

Chad

Yes, I see that on iOS you can put your cursor between the lines of text. The reason this is happening is because, since we do not have an option for line spacing in the editor, we are trying to preserve the visual gap between the lines by adding a blank line. The reason we do not leave the lines with a large vertical margin is because of changes in the editor to make it more deterministic to work with the underlying HTML. To be more specific, the notes are rendered in an embedded web view, and we use a feature of those web views that makes the content editable. That feature naturally works more predictably with "div" elements than "p" elements in the HTML. Your content consists of "p" elements, which receive a visual treatment in the editor that gives them vertical margins. Those lines are now represented as "div"s in the note editor, which allows us to work more deterministically with the content in the web view. Unfortunately, it is having the side effect of removing those vertical margins. We can address this in a few different ways, each of which have their pros and cons. I am discussing this with the team, and we are working on a solution.

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36 minutes ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

Yes, I see that on iOS you can put your cursor between the lines of text. The reason this is happening is because, since we do not have an option for line spacing in the editor, we are trying to preserve the visual gap between the lines by adding a blank line. The reason we do not leave the lines with a large vertical margin is because of changes in the editor to make it more deterministic to work with the underlying HTML. To be more specific, the notes are rendered in an embedded web view, and we use a feature of those web views that makes the content editable. That feature naturally works more predictably with "div" elements than "p" elements in the HTML. Your content consists of "p" elements, which receive a visual treatment in the editor that gives them vertical margins. Those lines are now represented as "div"s in the note editor, which allows us to work more deterministically with the content in the web view. Unfortunately, it is having the side effect of removing those vertical margins. We can address this in a few different ways, each of which have their pros and cons. I am discussing this with the team, and we are working on a solution.

Hey Johnathan,

Wow, that's great. I thought it was the line endings - was close. Sounds like you guys will want to have something that is consistent across platforms. I'm glad to know you're working on it.

If I could make the request to allow us to use this formatting, it would be much appreciated. I have developed a custom program that automates my notes based on line breaks. It's actually really awesome and tried to reach out to EV about packaging it and selling it as a service (got no answer a few times).

Anyways, I could always change the program. But, on an aesthetic level, I do like that formatting best. It's easy to read and organize tasks. If you guys could continue to support this formatting as you have in the past (somehow), it would be really great.

Thank You,

Chad

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Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

I just wanted to know if you saw my last post.

Do you have an idea of when a solution might be released?

Secondly, can you direct me to the right person about my Automated Notes script that completely changes how people take notes?

Thank You,

Chad

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We'll aim to fix this for the next Mac release, probably 6.12. I can share this forum post internally, and someone can reach out to you here if necessary.

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28 minutes ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

We'll aim to fix this for the next Mac release, probably 6.12. I can share this forum post internally, and someone can reach out to you here if necessary.

Hey Johnathan,

Thanks so much for sharing this internally. I know it will change the way notes are taken and makes anyone more productive, combining notes, logging, reminders, tasks and time management. I can be reached at ChadCEO@outlook.com if anyone wants my direct contact. I appreciate you saying that and making the effort. It would be a total game changer.

Also, sounds good for the upcoming update. You had said Mac release. Did you mean in the upcoming iOS release? The issue is with the compatibility for iPhone / Web platforms. 

Thank You,

Chad

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On 4/28/2017 at 10:14 AM, Johnathan Hebert said:

Yes, sorry, it should be in both the next Mac and iOS minor version releases. Mac 6.12 and iOS 8.3

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

It's been about 2 weeks since we had talked about resolving the line spacing conflicts.

Do you have a timeline or general time-frame when this will be fixed?

The issue is halting my workflow. I would really like to know how much longer I need to hold out for. It's been over a month (since April 10th) that the issue has remained. I literally haven't used the mobile app for 35 days.

Please give me an idea of when to expect the next release.

Thank You,

Chad

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chad CEO said:

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

It's been about 2 weeks since we had talked about resolving the line spacing conflicts.

Do you have a timeline or general time-frame when this will be fixed?

The issue is halting my workflow. I would really like to know how much longer I need to hold out for. It's been over a month (since April 10th) that the issue has remained. I literally haven't used the mobile app for 35 days.

Please give me an idea of when to expect the next release.

Thank You,

Chad

Hi @Chad CEO -- In the next beta of 8.2.2, or the GA, you should see all formatting, spacing, etc retained on pasted content, and the extra editable line should not be there. In other words, the original behavior should be restored.

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On 5/15/2017 at 9:26 AM, Chad CEO said:

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

It's been about 2 weeks since we had talked about resolving the line spacing conflicts.

Do you have a timeline or general time-frame when this will be fixed?

The issue is halting my workflow. I would really like to know how much longer I need to hold out for. It's been over a month (since April 10th) that the issue has remained. I literally haven't used the mobile app for 35 days.

Please give me an idea of when to expect the next release.

Thank You,

Chad

I just wanted to clarify one thing. When you say "double spacing", are you talking about double spacing within a paragraph, or spacing between paragraphs?

The change we are making will do this:
If you just have a single paragraph, but it is long enough to wrap across several lines, those lines will not be double spaced. But if you then add a second paragraph (by pressing the enter key), there will be a space between the two paragraphs.

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2 minutes ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

If you just have a single paragraph, but it is long enough to wrap across several lines, those lines will not be double spaced. But if you then add a second paragraph (by pressing the enter key), there will be a space between the two paragraphs.

This is correct. It should maintain the double spacing between paragraphs (not within the paragraphs). This would be consistent with the Web version. I have kept the "Evernote Test 1" note live just in case you need it. In that note, there is double spacing between paragraphs, requiring you to press enter to create a new paragraph.

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1 hour ago, Chad CEO said:

This is correct. It should maintain the double spacing between paragraphs (not within the paragraphs). This would be consistent with the Web version. I have kept the "Evernote Test 1" note live just in case you need it. In that note, there is double spacing between paragraphs, requiring you to press enter to create a new paragraph.

Thanks. I also need to correct what I said about the schedule/release earlier:

On 5/15/2017 at 10:38 AM, Johnathan Hebert said:

Hi @Chad CEO -- In the next beta of 8.2.2, or the GA, you should see all formatting, spacing, etc retained on pasted content, and the extra editable line should not be there. In other words, the original behavior should be restored.

I am working to get this fix in for the 8.2.2 release, but if it does not make it in time, it will be in the next iOS release. It will also be carried to the Mac/Win releases coming up as soon as we can get it in. It is working in internal builds.

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Hi @Johnathan Hebert, the iOS release is my primary concern. So not too worried about desktop versions because there is an alternative.

For iOS, there's no alternative. If it was just a few extra days, I can manage. But, another week or two is really rough.

Please try to include this in 8.2.2. I hope it comes out soon.

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Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

On April 28th, we had talked about getting this fix included in the next update. Since then it's been 27 days. If I knew it would take this long, I would have just re-written my script or moved platforms. Even on May 15th (10 days ago), I was under the impression that this fix is being worked on.

Can you give me a realistic expectation of when to expect a fix? My business depends on my productivity and I have been so very patient. If it will not been done soon (this week or early next), can you please tell me? This way, I can find the time to make adjustments on my end. It's really sad that I haven't been able to use the mobile app with my formatting since April 10th and since April 12th - I have been waiting and hoping for a fix.

Please give me an idea of when to expect the fixed version, either way, please let me know.

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Hi @Chad CEO, I was able to include the changes, so it will be fixed in the upcoming 8.2.2 GA release.

Just so I understand you correctly -- you are saying that it is not possible for you to use the app because an extra line is appearing in double spaced content?

Can you clarify why you cannot use the mobile app? The extra line is preventing you from using the app? Or is there some other error or bug that is going on that stops you from using the app?

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Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

I'm glad to hear that the fix will be included. When would the 8.2.2 release be coming out? Roughly, I would like to have an idea. I won't hold you to it.

9 minutes ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

Just so I understand you correctly -- you are saying that it is not possible for you to use the app because an extra line is appearing in double spaced content?

And, yes, you are understanding correctly. When the extra line gets added in the mobile app, it changes the formatting across all devices - specifically the web version. So, I would be changing the way my notes are spaced permanently. Even if I reformatted the notes, the conflicting formatting would change it again the next time I used the mobile app. Now, I could just get used to the single spacing only. However, I doubt I'm the only one using double spacing or paragraph spacing. And, since the feature was offered for the life of Evernote until April 10th, I figured it would be a quick fix. In any case, to preserve the formatting of my notes (which the formatting is incorporated into my workflow), I'm unable to use the mobile app. Unless, I am okay with the mobile app corrupting the formatting of my notes.

If you could let me know when 8.2.2 is expected to release, it would be helpful to me.

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1 minute ago, Chad CEO said:

And, yes, you are understanding correctly. When the extra line gets added in the mobile app, it changes the formatting across all devices

@Johnathan Hebert

Same thing can happen to tables modified on IOS....  Previously reported.  Haven't been able to update tables on IOS since the 8 release.

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4 minutes ago, Chad CEO said:

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

I'm glad to hear that the fix will be included. When would the 8.2.2 release be coming out? Roughly, I would like to have an idea. I won't hold you to it.

And, yes, you are understanding correctly. When the extra line gets added in the mobile app, it changes the formatting across all devices - specifically the web version. So, I would be changing the way my notes are spaced permanently. Even if I reformatted the notes, the conflicting formatting would change it again the next time I used the mobile app. Now, I could just get used to the single spacing only. However, I doubt I'm the only one using double spacing or paragraph spacing. And, since the feature was offered for the life of Evernote until April 10th, I figured it would be a quick fix. In any case, to preserve the formatting of my notes (which the formatting is incorporated into my workflow), I'm unable to use the mobile app. Unless, I am okay with the mobile app corrupting the formatting of my notes.

If you could let me know when 8.2.2 is expected to release, it would be helpful to me.

I can tell you that the final editor build has been included with the app, but I cannot account for external factors like the app store, etc. It is the next release going out the door for iOS as far as I know. Please keep in mind there are many millions of users and many issues that require attention, planning, prioritizing, etc -- we are working as hard as we can to address them in a way that is most valuable to our users.

Quote

And, since the feature was offered for the life of Evernote until April 10th, I figured it would be a quick fix.

In general, making substantial improvements to the editor is in natural tension with preserving all legacy behaviors and quirks that have existed for the life of Evernote. As I briefly explained before, the adjustment of the ENML was done to fix a class of editing bugs. It was never intended to have a visual or behavioral effect, which is why it is being reverted. In short, it usually is never a quick fix, but more of a quick trade-off.

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8 minutes ago, csihilling said:

@Johnathan Hebert

Same thing can happen to tables modified on IOS....  Previously reported.  Haven't been able to update tables on IOS since the 8 release.

The table issues should be fixed in 8.2.2 Beta 2. Can you confirm?

Please understand that if you edited, saved and sync'd a note that had "bad looking tables", it will not repair those notes. You will need to recover those from note history in order to see that the tables are no longer rendered poorly.

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1 minute ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

The table issues should be fixed in 8.2.2 Beta 2. Can you confirm?

Please understand that if you edited, saved and sync'd a note that had "bad looking tables", it will not repair those notes. You will need to recover those from note history in order to see that the tables are no longer rendered poorly.

Got it.  How to access 8.2.2 Beta 2?  PM if you like.

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6 minutes ago, Johnathan Hebert said:

In short, it usually is never a quick fix, but more of a quick trade-off.

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

I understand. It was my mistake for waiting this long. If something goes wrong in the future, I won't expect a quick fix. In fact, I don't think I'll help at all. I'll just move platforms. So far, being loyal to Evernote and helping identify issues, document bugs and provide feedback has gotten me absolutely nothing in return. I even have a ground breaking system to automate notes - which would be an immediate product (way better than just the machine learning approach) that I would love to work with you guys on. However, it's just really demoralizing to support Evernote right now. So, I have learned for next time.

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14 minutes ago, Chad CEO said:

Hey @Johnathan Hebert,

I understand. It was my mistake for waiting this long. If something goes wrong in the future, I won't expect a quick fix. In fact, I don't think I'll help at all. I'll just move platforms. So far, being loyal to Evernote and helping identify issues, document bugs and provide feedback has gotten me absolutely nothing in return. I even have a ground breaking system to automate notes - which would be an immediate product (way better than just the machine learning approach) that I would love to work with you guys on. However, it's just really demoralizing to support Evernote right now. So, I have learned for next time.

Sometimes the fixes can be quick, so it is okay to expect that for certain issues. In this case, it was a bit of a trade at first.

The issues you are reporting are indeed helping us make the product better. Sometimes an improvement in one area means a change (not necessarily a bug) in another area. In this case, we do want to preserve line heights, and use <div>s for paragraph blocks in ENML. The fix we have should accomplish both, and ultimately make the product better.  Please continue to give feedback on issues. I would be happy to provide more technical details on the nature of the fixes.

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