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jaffab

Feedback - why I am starting to STOP using Evernote

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First of all, I am going to start by saying I used to LOVE evernote.   I have used it since it first appeared (oh so many years ago), have always been a PRO user, have a few thousand notes in 60 or so notebooks.   Recently, I have found myself using Evernote less and less, and I thought I would provide feedback to Evenote in case it helps them in the future.    These are the reasons why I am starting to STOP using evernote (and will most likely move my notes elsewhere in the near future and cancel my service):

1) The web login screen.     I find the full screen animation really annoying - its massive bandwidth, does nothing to tell new users what Evernote is, makes it hard to see what I am doing - clean is simple.  IF I wanted to see a movie, I would go to a cinema.

2) I am a user, I dont want to hunt for a LOGIN button every time.   The initial prompts l(user ID and pasword) make it look like a login, but its a signup form.    It used to be signin form, and "New User?" link.   Hate I am less important that a new user

3) Everything is SOooooo slow now.  After I logged in on the web, it took 26 seconds to load up my Evernote page.  A sync on Evernote GUI app took 59 seconds.   My web acess here is 80mb (fiber) so my internet is not the problem.   Its really annoying to wait so long to do anything

4) The Windows GUI is awful.  It has been awful since you got rid of the old interface and went to the flat look a couple of years back.    Its hard to find anything (unclear where you should be looking), its full of useless information (those tiles of unuseful information) and the scroll bars are a joke - so thin you cant actually use them and the display of where you are in the scroll bar is very light grey on silver.  Awful, awful, awful

5) The Windows GUI and the web interface of notebooks does not remember when folders are closed - I have folders in folders in folders - and every time I have to manual close them all again to see what I am doing.   It used to remember.

6) The searching in the web version of Evernote is awful.    So as an example - I have in my many notebooks, a notebook called "SQL Server", so I quick the notebooks icon, and it lists my notebooks, I go down to SQL Server, have a look around, need to find a note in SQL... there is no search facility other than the search icon on the tool panel on the left.   I click it - where does it search?  EVERYWHERE.  Oh, there is a pull down of where to search, so I use the pulldown and there are two options down... ALL notebooks or my last recent notebook... which is not SQL.  There is no way (or no clear way) of searching within a specific notebook.

 

Evernote used to be about quick access, easy to save notes, and most importantly, easy to find notes.    It now seems more about functions we dont need (does anybody actually use the evernote chat???) and finding some quickly is a nightmare.   Its more an un-productivity tool.

 

Please, stop trying to be clever - stop trying to add new features, stop trying to 'out feature' the other tools out there.  Get back to basics - be quick, useable, the best note store and pickup facility you can be.  Please!

 

(I will be adding to this as I think of more things)

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On 2016-10-28 at 2:40 AM, jaffab said:

First of all, I am going to start by saying I used to LOVE evernote.   I have used it since it first appeared (oh so many years ago), have always been a PRO user, have a few thousand notes in 60 or so notebooks.   Recently, I have found myself using Evernote less and less, and I thought I would provide feedback to Evenote in case it helps them in the future.    These are the reasons why I am starting to STOP using evernote (and will most likely move my notes elsewhere in the near future and cancel my service):

I use Evernote extensively, and find myself using it more and more

>>Please, stop trying to be clever - stop trying to add new features, stop trying to 'out feature' the other tools out there.  Get back to basics - be quick, useable, the best note store and pickup facility you can be.  Please!

Then, there are the users that insist Evernote must make specified changes, or they will "move my notes elsewhere in the near future and cancel my service"

Personally, I don't use all the the features, and some of the changes don't impact me.  
I just ignore them. 
And I work within the limits of the different platforms.  I don't often use the web platform - the user experience is much better using the Evernote client software.

>>(I will be adding to this as I think of more things)

Please don't - Its much more productive to add your vote to the many feature requests being posted.
I up-vote the requests I can use; and ignore the others.

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as far as your login issues go, if you simple pin your tab or make a bookmark after you are logged in and have your browser remember your password, you will almost Never see the login screen! Pinned tab is the best because you are taken to where you left off, bookmark a specific notebook if you have a starting place you like to go every time.

- windows issues, I agree improvements should be made here! I cant even run it without a BSOD but for me the web interface works better for my usage.

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I had planned to basically organize my whole life in Evernote, paying for a paid account if necessary, but I too am experiencing a number of frustrations that are making me think twice: 1. Note conflicts - I don't know why I have so many, but I know this doesn't happen in, for example, Google Docs. A note is practically useless if I have to search through 30 copies of it to find the latest thing I added to it. 2. Tool Tips - A tool tip on an HTML link that does nothing but pop up the exact same HTML link gets in my way and makes it difficult to click on the link. Frankly, I've never seen a tool tip anywhere in my life that didn't get in my way, but these are especially annoying. I basically have to dance with the link for five seconds to get the popup and make sure I'm clicking on it and only it before it slips away. 3. HTML - I would like to write HTML and have it render in the note. I know I can do some hacks to create HTML elsewhere and get it on the page, but I want to be able to, for example, constantly add and reorder items on my home page on the fly. 4. Spreadsheets - I need a simple spreadsheet that adds columns, like Google Docs has. 5. Tables - Tables should be expandable. What's the point of a table you can't add lines to because you didn't accurately predict how many lines you'd need. 6. The "leaving Evernote" message when clicking on a link. 7. The navigation on the left - Maybe I need to learn how to manage it better, but I don't like the random assortment of notes and links on the left (outside of the favorites tab). I'd like to just see my stacks, notebooks and notes with expandable twisties.

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6 hours ago, Shae said:

Maybe I need to learn how to manage it better

Evernote has a fairly short learning curve,  and lots of the issues you're having are probably due to unfamiliarity rather than software problems.  But it is what it is.  If the software as it stand isn't working for you after a reasonable trial - and most folks here will gladly help with queries - then have a look around to see what else there is.

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DO NOT hesitate to quit Evernote. It has been bug-ridden for so many years and the developers just don't even care to fix the most basic bug. The UI IMO is badly designed. Don't even care to vote for any feature requests, they don't listen to user feedback. If you don't believe me, go to feature requests side. You will see requests dated back to 2013 and haven't receive any response from them. There are so many better alternatives out there. My advice is move on and don't look back. 

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1 hour ago, Ex_User said:

 My advice is move on and don't look back. 

Are you going to stick around and continue to troll the forums with your melodrama? An adult would just take their own advice. Wishing you luck with whatever product you wind up with; that's what having choice is all about.

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31 minutes ago, jefito said:

Are you going to stick around and continue to troll the forums with your melodrama? An adult would just take their own advice. Wishing you luck with whatever product you wind up with; that's what having choice is all about.

I just wanted to share my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine I have no problem with that. Are you annoyed because of me keep talking bad about your favorite application? I don't care. I just want to spread the words about Evernote is abysmal product. :P

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Oops, almost forgot. There is a guy I want to warn you guys about, his profile picture is an owl, if my memory doesn't fail me. I forgot his name because it is not even worth remembering. He has a status of 'Guru', a real die-hard Evernote advocate. He is the most ignorant person I have ever seen, guess he is the stuff a developer's dreams are made of. Here are some stories about him.

  • When people asked for Linux support, "No, only minority use Linux as their OS. "
  • When people moaned about the new pricing model, "Evernote has every rights to raise their price because the application is so valuable. Those freeloaders should just leave if they don't want to pay up."
  • When people are worried about the new privacy policy, "If you care so much about your data, encrypt it. There's a text encryption function in Evernote."
  • When Evernote suffered data loss, "You guys should have backup your data."
  • When people asked for editor improvements like table handling, "Evernote is only suited for simple text. If you want to create table, use doc instead and attach it to your notes."
  • When people asked for dark theme, "I don't care about the bright UI. I always wear a pair of sunglasses when using Evernote."

I'm starting to suspect that he works for Evernote. An employee in disguise as a customer.

 

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9 hours ago, Ex_User said:

Oops, almost forgot. There is a guy I want to warn you guys about, his profile picture is an owl

I have no idea who that would be

>>I forgot his name

Well I remember you
You were banished once already and your posts were purged; and now you're sneaking back to the forums under a different name, still polluting the discussions with your ranting

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15 hours ago, Ex_User said:

I just wanted to share my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine I have no problem with that. Are you annoyed because of me keep talking bad about your favorite application? I don't care. I just want to spread the words about Evernote is abysmal product. :P

Evernote doesn't work for you, you don't like it, that's understandable. Everyone should have tools that work well for them. That includes you. But Evernote works well for me, and evidently a whole lot of other people.

Opinions are fine, but sticking around actively telling people to leave Evernote in their own forum isn't, in my opinion. I would think that you have better things to do than troll the forums of a product you don't use. My usual take is "if you're done, you're done."

I'm done here.

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14 hours ago, Ex_User said:

Oops, almost forgot. There is a guy I want to warn you guys about, his profile picture is an owl, if my memory doesn't fail me. I forgot his name because it is not even worth remembering. He has a status of 'Guru', a real die-hard Evernote advocate. He is the most ignorant person I have ever seen, guess he is the stuff a developer's dreams are made of. Here are some stories about him.

  • When people asked for Linux support, "No, only minority use Linux as their OS. "
  • When people moaned about the new pricing model, "Evernote has every rights to raise their price because the application is so valuable. Those freeloaders should just leave if they don't want to pay up."
  • When people are worried about the new privacy policy, "If you care so much about your data, encrypt it. There's a text encryption function in Evernote."
  • When Evernote suffered data loss, "You guys should have backup your data."
  • When people asked for editor improvements like table handling, "Evernote is only suited for simple text. If you want to create table, use doc instead and attach it to your notes."
  • When people asked for dark theme, "I don't care about the bright UI. I always wear a pair of sunglasses when using Evernote."

I'm starting to suspect that he works for Evernote. An employee in disguise as a customer.

 

1. @DTLow does not work for Evernote, nor has he ever.

2. Please refrain from name calling. We won't tolerate it, and will remove any inflammatory and/or derogatory remarks.

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On 10/28/2016 at 5:40 AM, jaffab said:

First of all, I am going to start by saying I used to LOVE evernote.   I have used it since it first appeared (oh so many years ago), have always been a PRO user, have a few thousand notes in 60 or so notebooks.   Recently, I have found myself using Evernote less and less, and I thought I would provide feedback to Evenote in case it helps them in the future.    These are the reasons why I am starting to STOP using evernote (and will most likely move my notes elsewhere in the near future and cancel my service):

1) The web login screen.     I find the full screen animation really annoying - its massive bandwidth, does nothing to tell new users what Evernote is, makes it hard to see what I am doing - clean is simple.  IF I wanted to see a movie, I would go to a cinema.

2) I am a user, I dont want to hunt for a LOGIN button every time.   The initial prompts l(user ID and pasword) make it look like a login, but its a signup form.    It used to be signin form, and "New User?" link.   Hate I am less important that a new user

3) Everything is SOooooo slow now.  After I logged in on the web, it took 26 seconds to load up my Evernote page.  A sync on Evernote GUI app took 59 seconds.   My web acess here is 80mb (fiber) so my internet is not the problem.   Its really annoying to wait so long to do anything

4) The Windows GUI is awful.  It has been awful since you got rid of the old interface and went to the flat look a couple of years back.    Its hard to find anything (unclear where you should be looking), its full of useless information (those tiles of unuseful information) and the scroll bars are a joke - so thin you cant actually use them and the display of where you are in the scroll bar is very light grey on silver.  Awful, awful, awful

5) The Windows GUI and the web interface of notebooks does not remember when folders are closed - I have folders in folders in folders - and every time I have to manual close them all again to see what I am doing.   It used to remember.

6) The searching in the web version of Evernote is awful.    So as an example - I have in my many notebooks, a notebook called "SQL Server", so I quick the notebooks icon, and it lists my notebooks, I go down to SQL Server, have a look around, need to find a note in SQL... there is no search facility other than the search icon on the tool panel on the left.   I click it - where does it search?  EVERYWHERE.  Oh, there is a pull down of where to search, so I use the pulldown and there are two options down... ALL notebooks or my last recent notebook... which is not SQL.  There is no way (or no clear way) of searching within a specific notebook.

 

Evernote used to be about quick access, easy to save notes, and most importantly, easy to find notes.    It now seems more about functions we dont need (does anybody actually use the evernote chat???) and finding some quickly is a nightmare.   Its more an un-productivity tool.

 

Please, stop trying to be clever - stop trying to add new features, stop trying to 'out feature' the other tools out there.  Get back to basics - be quick, useable, the best note store and pickup facility you can be.  Please!

 

(I will be adding to this as I think of more things)

1+2  - If you have a google account, log in with your google account.  I'm usually logged into gmail, so in the rare cases that I go to the evernote web, I'm logged in automatically because I'm already google authenticated.

3. I've never experienced this on my end.  Just because your internet speed is 80 down doesn't mean that you can access all 80 at one time.  You might want to check your router and see what type of traffic is going on that you might not know about.  My kids usually take up about 40 mbps streaming their shows on their rokus.

4. It's not pretty, I'll give you that.  The search works much better for me when I use the CTRL-Q option instead of the seach box on the page.

5. It seems to remember which stacks I have closed and which I have left open.  I'm not sure what you mean by folder in folder in folder. One of the things I don't like is that evernote doesn't have folders in notebooks.  Just stack of notebooks.  Now in Onenote you can have notebooks with section groups with section groups within...and onenote doesn't remember any of these section groups you have closed.  Not sure if that's what you are referencing.

6.  I rarely use the web, so I never noticed that.  That is some lazy coding, I agree wholeheartedly with you there.

Evernote is by no means perfect, but it still beats every other application I've tried when it comes to finding something quickly from my notes.  I am hoping they will improve the core functionality to allow us to filter easier in the future so our searches will be even quicker and easier.

One thing I've never understood is why developers want to force new functionality on users and take away functionality that was previously available. There should be an opt-in option on all new functionality and an option to keep old functionality. Some users like change, others hate change...you can't ever make everyone happy if you don't let users have options to take it or leave it.

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9 minutes ago, zotje said:

One thing I've never understood is why developers want to force new functionality on users and take away functionality that was previously available.

It's a constant struggle. It's a case by case thing. Sometimes adding new functionality precludes the old functionality from working well, or at all, Something's got to give.

11 minutes ago, zotje said:

There should be an opt-in option on all new functionality and an option to keep old functionality. Some users like change, others hate change...you can't ever make everyone happy if you don't let users have options to take it or leave it.

This can be mayhem for users, developers and support. For developers, you can spend more time developing UI to control the various options and making sure that they old and new functionalities don't conflict with each other, and less time on building actual functionality. For users, you face the welter of options dilemma, both on install and in Options. For support, that makes it harder to zero in on problems, which is difficult enough when dealing with a customer remotely.

This is not trivial stuff.

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@jefito

All the above is true, no doubt about it.  One measure of a good software provider can be the ability to enhance the product without a lot of disruption.  EN seems to sometimes have the innate ability to trip over the curb in the changes caused by change.  Hence the nuking of the new web product for the newer web product. 

That being said, from my perspective the quality of the enhancements, fixes, and delivery of the Windows product has improved quite a bit in the last year or so.  Still more to do with standardization and the bigger feature requests, but kudos to that team.

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I get why some people don't want new features but I hope Evernote adds new features that improve the product and give the "no change just improve" people the option to not use the new features. 

Evernote likes to give the impression it can work as a task mangement system but I find it very difficultand would like some native support for things that now require assorted third party plug ins. 

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On 2016-12-21 at 5:01 PM, CVJ said:

Evernote likes to give the impression it can work as a task mangement system but I find it very difficult and would like some native support for things that now require assorted third party plug ins. 

Evernote has features that can be of use for task management, but I doubt it will ever be as powerful as a dedicated task management system.

Can you give some details as to the things that require assorted third party plug ins.
Users can possibly respond with their Evernote solutions

For items with no solution, I recommend following up by posting separate feature requests

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On 12/22/2016 at 8:08 AM, jefito said:

It's a constant struggle. It's a case by case thing. Sometimes adding new functionality precludes the old functionality from working well, or at all, Something's got to give.

 

Actually: no. It is perfectly possible to add new functionality without making basic functionality less friendly. Case in point, Google has added a fair bit of functionality over the years, but if you want to search... Another case in point, almost all the functions in Microsoft Work are accessible in one click, because you can customise the UI. Example: If I am typing and want to put part of a document two columns, I click, scroll and click. Same with page numbers x of y in the bottom middle of the page.    

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On 10/29/2016 at 0:04 AM, DTLow said:

 

>>(I will be adding to this as I think of more things)

Please don't - Its much more productive to add your vote to the many feature requests being posted.
I up-vote the requests I can use; and ignore the others.

Ha ha ha ha. Different coloured highlighting: waiting since 2013. Ha ha ha. Try to tell the truth. 

Yeah, you upvote them and that's the last thing that ever happens. Ha ha ha. Great usefulness, not. 

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7 hours ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

It is perfectly possible to add new functionality without making basic functionality less friendly.

Sometimes it may be,  but f you rewrite base code,  as Evernote did with the main app editor,  you're changing the methods by which text is displayed and formatted.  Differences may result.  Or may not.  It depends on the changes made.

7 hours ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

Different coloured highlighting: waiting since 2013.

  1. If changes affect all supported devices and platforms it's incredibly inefficient to code the same thing several times,  once for each OS.  Evernote decided to rewrite the editor module so it was OS independent,  then add in extra bells and whistles.  The editor rewrite was a big project which took some years,  completing only recently...
  2. The voting system has only been in effect for several months.
  3. This isn't a democracy.  Evernote are perfectly entitled to take features requests,  or to leave them.  Entirely their choice.  Ours is to use Evernote,  or not.
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OK, I do like and use evernote. I pay for the premium version and I will keep using it. However, I really wished they always let us keep the old interfaces, I really dislike this flat design that oversimplify things, but even worse, this trend of making the text loose contrast is making me mad, it is getting harder and harder to read the screen. And yes, I might be getting older (we all do if we are lucky!) but it is no excuse.

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It's amazing how quickly these things turn into a poo-flinging contest. Sheesh.

I use Evernote for all of my notes, but I'm nervous about it. For the most part, it does everything I need. When Evernote shifted to the new pricing model, I gladly took them up on the 50% discount and went up to a Premium. After a few months I realized none of the premium functions are useful for me, so once my year is done I'll move to a Plus.

I think the new model is actually smart. I'm rarely a fan of subscription-based models, but have no problem paying if what I receive is good. But what worries me isn't the pricing model, but rather user feedback/requests that seems to go unheard.

For starters, users have been requesting for years for deeper level folder structure. They've also been requesting mobile nested tags (I'm hoping tomorrow's presentation for the iOS will include that). There's tons of requests for font, font color, and paragraphs structures (such as headings and the like) to be added to both the mobile and desktop versions.

It worries me that a company doesn't appear to be hearing the requests from it's users. It's one of the reasons subscription-based models irritate me. A one-time-payment-based model allows a company freedom to simply put out features they think will sell. Users then get to choose whether to upgrade to the next version if it fits their needs or not. But a subscription-based model needs to pay more attention to user requests because users are paying each month. There were versions of MS Office that I simply didn't buy because it added nothing to my work flow. I didn't waste the money on a product that didn't add anything for me. But I don't get that choice with Evernote. I stop paying and I lose functionality.

I suspect Evernote has an end goal in mind, which is great. I don't fault them for wanting better revenue or trying to implement features that make their platform more robust. But if users aren't feeling heard, they will leave. And eventually, revenue is going to dry up because users walked away.

My advice, if Evernote is willing to hear me (I haven't been paying that long, after all): figure out who you want to be and make yourself the best at it. If you want to be the best task manager, go for it. If you want to be the best notes storage, go for it. Find your niche and make it the best possible out there. But don't lose track of your niche. It's really easy for others to come along and take it from you.

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4 minutes ago, Matthew Wimer said:

I use Evernote for all of my notes, but I'm nervous about it.

I also use Evernote for all my notes, but no nervousness

I know that whenever I want, I can export my notes
I will switch if I find a service that will better address my requirements

>>For starters, users have been requesting for years for deeper level folder structure.

And for years, Evernote has said no; atlthough they did implement stacks
If this is so important to you, you may be using the wrong product

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I have to confess, DTLow, that I'm at a loss for why you responded to my comment. It's great that Evernote doesn't make you nervous. For that, I'm glad.

However, responding to my concern with telling me that I may be using the wrong product is neither beneficial nor respectful.

To make this conversation respectful, I will ask you if you know why Evernote has said no to deeper stacks. I confess, I cannot understand the reasoning behind it, but perhaps there is one. As I think on it, it would be really great to know. If there's a philosophy behind their response, then I can think of how best to organize my notes around it rather than hoping they'll add in a deeper level.

That said, Evernote is precisely the program I want to use. Neither I nor any other user would be on this forum if they didn't want to use it. We express our concerns so that the company whose software we use can have a better sense of what their user base is looking for.

If it makes you feel better, I'll add this: Evernote is the best note-storage app I've tried (and I've tried a ton). I have no use for Markdown (forgive me, but unless everything you do is publishing-oriented, I don't get it's use), so feel no need for it. Evernote is fast and responds well. It's search functions are phenomenal. Search isn't always intuitive, but once I figured it out, I loved it.

Most of my notes are text-based (meeting notes, personal notes, highlights from books, etc). Evernote is fantastic for that. I absolutely love the tagging and how it easily works. (If they include nested tags for iOS, I'll be thrilled.)

So for me, the benefits of Evernote far outweigh what I'm missing. DTLow, you might consider the other side of what people are experiencing before engaging them in such a negative way. These forums were created by Evernote to collect their customer's opinions. If Evernote didn't want them, the forums wouldn't exist.

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On 2017-01-17 at 9:28 AM, Matthew Wimer said:

To make this conversation respectful, I will ask you if you know why Evernote has said no to deeper stacks. I confess, I cannot understand the reasoning behind it, but perhaps there is one.

One school of thought is that
- Tags have been set up for organization; they allow unlimited hierarchy 
- Notebooks had a different purpose, relating to their sync/local/share/offline features

>>I have to confess, DTLow, that I'm at a loss for why you responded to my comment.

An attempt to make you less nervous; that you're not locked into Evernote

>>telling me that I may be using the wrong product is neither beneficial nor respectful.

No disrespect intended, but if you require a folder structure I sincerely believe you woud be better off with different product.  If a person is only happy with filing notes in a folder/subfolder/subfolder structure they will never be content with Evernote

>>Evernote is the best note-storage app I've tried

Likewise

>>I have no use for Markdown

Not something I use either.  
There are many features not offered by the Evernote editor
I have no problem using dedicated apps that have those features
I store the files as an attachment to the note in Evernote

 

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Oh, I get their thinking. Perhaps one of the reasons I don't use folders/tagging the way Evernote intends is precisely the omission of nested tags in iOS. Here's hoping tomorrow will reveal the addition! I don't share notebooks (it's merely personal note storage for me), so I get why my philosophy isn't lining up with Evernotes. I'll have to consider how best to sort.

What other apps do you use? I'm always on the lookout for good ones, and would be interested to see what ones work well with Evernote. Thanks!

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On 2017-01-17 at 9:48 AM, Matthew Wimer said:

What other apps do you use?

The office/iWork appls play nicely with Evernote - Searches, viewing inline etc

I also use the Notability app on my iPad for serious note taking.  When finished, I export to pdf format because it works better in Evernote

>>omission of nested tags in iOS. Here's hoping tomorrow will reveal the addition!

Likewise; you might add your vote to the feature request

 

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Ah, gotcha. That's a good way to do it.

I did indeed add my vote for it. After Evernote implemented the voting aspect of the forum, I went through and added my vote to a bunch of them. =D

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After long consideration I saw the root of your woes. Change from windows to Mac 

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