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RG2008

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  1. Two releases later and we are now up to Release 7.9 with no fix in sight. The new CEO, who was all guns blazing with enthusiasm for helping us "fall in love again" with Evernote is now MIA and has failed to follow up on his promises to look into this matter. Not even as much a rough idea as to when resources will be allocated. So, I bit the bullet, again, and went the double nuclear option and not only uninstalled and revoked all my Evernote clients (Mac, iOS) but also for those of family members who I had shared notes with. After hours of work uninstalling, re-installing and reconfiguring 8 client apps over three accounts I can finally report that the troublesome tags that have been polluting my tag list have finally disappeared. After 24 hours they have not reappeared. So, while I have managed to work around this issue at a significant loss of productivity, the underlying issue is still present - sharing notes with tags can lead to them becoming undeletable (is that a word!?). Clearly the client side database is not designed properly and it would appear from the ongoing apathy to this issue, including from Ian Small, that this is never going to be fixed.
  2. Another update. Release 7.7 for Mac has been made and it contains those very critical updates to Dark Mode that we all, apparently, have been waiting for. However, IT STILL DOES NOT CONTAIN A FIX FOR THIS BUG. Here is some of the feedback I have received to my further enquiries as to why this latest release again neglected this bug .. can you see a trend here? "I reviewed the ticket and confirm that there hasn't been any updates" > No ship Sherlock. Thanks for telling me what I already know. "The referenced ticket hasn't been closed. Our tech support will provide you an update when there are any changes to the status of this issue. Our development team is now working on this problem and trying identify the root cause to implement a fix for a future update." > This is not the first time they have said that they are actively working on it, only to find out later that it was a complete lie. Perhaps I am just being too demanding, the bug has ONLY been around 4 years after all. "thanks for your honest feedback. I'm happy to pass this along to our product team" > That old chestnut. I think this is called "passing the buck". I've lost count for the amount of times I have received this entirely meaningless, and utterly unhelpful comment from Evernote Support. It is Evernote code for "I'm shifting this from my responsibilities to a part of the organisation you can't interact with directly so that hopefully you just give up". HOWEVER ... I have been advised an ETA will be sent to me. Any Dev team worth their salt wouldn't take long to give such an estimate (particularly given the amount of times they say they have been actively working on this) so let's see if something is provided in the next week. Fair to say that if it takes any longer than a week then it was just another lie, consistent with Evernote's culture of being more concerned with how they look instead of how they actually are.
  3. Yet another update to advise that the latest version of Evernote for Mac (v7.6) STILL does not fix this issue. The underlying bug in the code still exists that allows tags to be created that cannot be subsequently deleted (refer above replication procedure). Evernote support were again asked for an update with the usual boilerplate reply. Here are some edited highlights ... "I hear your frustration and I've discussed with our product manager again today to see if it can be resolved soon." > I've lost count how many times this has been said. "I'll keep you posted on any changes to the status of this issue." > In other words, "you'll never hear from me again unless you follow me up". "Again, my apologies that it's taken so long!" > It speaks volumes about Evernote's lack of commitment to a quality that after all these years they aren't utterly embarrassed to keep repeating such meaningless apologies. So while the core functionality continues to fall apart, Evernote continue to focus on meaningless non functional UI changes like Dark Mode and transparent side bars * sigh * ... It is little wonder that the Evernote business is going down the toilet.
  4. I hear you. That's the real problem isn't it. They have mismanaged the business for so long, and failed to meet the expectations of users that the "product debt" is so large now that they are going to have to dig deep. I guess that's why they need to raise more capital as a down round.
  5. Of course it has a free version and it equally has paid versions. My comment was as a user who has been paying for years and that I expect to get a quality product in return. I don't think I do. You may think differently. That's ok. @DTLow then responded stating that the product is free, presumable to imply that I should be thankful because I get it for free. Well I don't, because I am paying and if I am paying I am going to express my views just as any customer would when they are paying. It's really not a hard point to grasp. Perhaps read the thread before feeling the need to lob in with comments next time.
  6. Thanks very much for providing the link. To clarify, Chris O'Neill refers to R&D spending being 60 - 70% of the "budget" not "revenue". They are not the same thing. In fact, the term "budget" is pretty nebulous and could be defined in any manner self serving since it is not an accounting term like revenue, which has a clear accounting definition. For all we know, Chris may have meant they are spending "60 -70% of their software budget on R&D" or"60 - 70% of their operating costs on R&D" or "60 - 70% of their beer budget on R&D" etc. It sounds like a large figure but it really doesn't mean anything. I am so glad he didn't really say he was spending 60-70% of their revenue on R&D. That would have been really bad.
  7. ???? Funny thing is Evernote have been deducting my credit card for years and you are telling me that it is free. Let me check .. https://evernote.com/compare-plans. Nope, it certainly looks like they are still charging their customers. I'm not sure how they would have a business if they didn't. Seriously, @DTLow why write something like this that you know is just plain incorrect and won't fool anyone. I am genuinely curious. Lol. Really, that's your best!? ... I'll take that as an admission that you are out of any constructive contribution. TIP: Focus on the ball. You never win in life playing the man.
  8. I couldn't agree more @eric99. Profitability alone is no measure of success. Many companies are not profitable for many years while they scale up. Amazon is another classic example. However, if you re-read my comment you will see that I have said that there would be a real issue if a 10 year old company was still "spending 60% of Revenue on R&D and still barely making any profit". Telsa's FY2017 income statement states Revenue of $11.7B and R&D costs of $1.4B. In other words, they spend 12% of their Revenue on R&D. That's a long way from 60%. If a company is spending 60% of their Revenue on R&D 10 years into their business then they are still trying to figure out what their business actually is ... and that's going to be a real downer for most investors (unless they like gambling). If you can find a 10 year old successful company that is still spending 60% on R&D I'd love to hear about it.
  9. I think they are less so now but my general experience in these forums is that they are overpowered by one eyed Evernote zealots who can see no wrong in anything Evernote does. Normal users get drowned out with an overwhelming bias from them that destroys any ability to have a factual and meritorious discussion. Some just plain lie, some are just plain wrong, and many quickly revert to playing the man and not the ball (plenty of evidence in this thread alone), seemingly because they take personal offence at the suggestion that some people don't see "their Evernote baby" as being as beautiful as they see it. Not all the "Gurus" fall into this category but many do. Unfortunately too many of them act like the number of posts they make is an indication of their knowledge and importance. While not the cause of the current issues at Evernote, I don't think the bias of these zealots is really helping the company. It dissuades normal users from contributing and prevents a more representative picture of the real customer issues/satisfaction from surfacing. Anyway, there is a noticeable change of late where I think we are seeing a more honest dialog that it's not all beer and skittles with Evernote, the company and the product. That's a good thing but I think it's too late for the company. Hopefully not the product. As I said, I'd prefer to see the company acquired, the current management just ripped straight out and replaced and the product live on where it is part of larger ecosphere. If you know a little about Atlassian you'd see how it's almost made to order. Thanks for your reply @tavor.
  10. I honestly cannot understand what you are saying or how you can conclude that based on what I have said in this post, or other posts for that matter. What is clear is that you have conveniently ignored the points I have made. Anyway, good on you for doing all that free work for Evernote. I am glad you have the time. They would be really screwed if they couldn't get such free labour. I personally expect to get a product of a decent level of quality when I am paying for it, and if I am spending all my time working for a company then I prefer to be on the payroll. I certainly know I am worth more than $0/hr. Thanks for the contribution. It was fun.
  11. @DTLow, thanks for your reply. Please allow me to hit the ball back over the net to you on some of those serves. How much information do you need? All the direct reports of the CEO have been booted out, 15% of the workforce is being laid off, they are indicating more capital raising (when the last capital raising was meant to be the last) and it's said to be down round (ie. the business is valued less than the last capital raising) and most of all, there is an undeniably large and increasing volume of negativity here, in the tech media, social media, YouTube etc reflecting the current user base's disappointment ... and if you can't keep the current users happy how on earth do you expect to make new users stick let alone pay. Also, I don't for one moment think the figures of 200+ million users mean anything. Active paying users are all that matters in terms of financial viability. One only need do a little math on their current paid subscription rates to realise that not many are paying and/or the business is seriously mismanaged. I suspect it is both. So you never give feedback or complain when a service you are paying for does not work for you? You just quietly tolerate it or quietly leave. OK. Good for you. It's a free world. I'm pretty certain Evernote are thankful their unhappy customers don't just leave or the business would be dead overnight. Personally, I think it more helpful to be honest and hope that the management, on balance, listens and takes action. After many years without improvement (to see how farcical the situation has become refer my post at Anyway, as I said, my personal preference is that Evernote gets acquired. I think Atlassian would be great suitor, and if that happens Chris O'Neill would be shown the door in a flash (he should have left now anyway given that he hired and managed all the high level execs that left recently) and I am pretty certain we would see the spin disappear, the product development ramp up, a real testing methodology introduced and most of all, the crappy code cleaned up that underlies the constant stream of inexcusable bugs ... and I wouldn't have to migrate to and learn a new system. Perfect.
  12. It is HIGHLY unusual for a company 10 years old like Evernote. If I was a prospective investor looking at a 10 year old company's Income Statement and saw that they were spending 60% of Revenue on R&D and still barely making any profit then I'd consider the business terminal. If Chris O'Neill said that then it is even more evidence that he should not be a CEO. He already failed at Google Glass and is pretty clearly failing now. The most damning evidence of that is not financial though ... it is the overwhelming proportion of long term one eyed customers on these forums who have finally started to open their other eye to the reality of Evernote's ignorance, arrogance and incompetence. It's highly amusing watching these Evernote stalwarts trying to remain positive when there is so little to be positive about. I must admit though, if I'd sunk my life into living in the Evernote forums I'd be suffering a little confirmation bias also. I have been a Premium Evernote customer since the early days and absolutely loathe the habitual spin that pervades all levels of it's management. It's cultural. Case in point is the latest Brand Fresh - take a look at Chris O'Neill's tweets pumping up a big announcement and then the palatable let down in the replies when everyone realised they had essentially changed the icon colors and curvature of Mad's trunk. I have given up hoping Evernote will get it's act together. I WANT THE BUSINESS TO FAIL but only sufficiently that a great company like Atlassian buys it so that all of us long term customers, and the many good employees still at Evernote, finally get what we have patiently waited for and deserve - A well run company that lets it's products do the talking.
  13. Thanks for the suggestion but that was tried long ago without success. Even Evernote have conceded they don't have any workarounds or further things to try which is all the more reason it galls me that they won't prioritise a fix. For kicks I'd suggest following my bug replication procedure above so you can see the exact issue I have experienced BUT PLEASE DON'T or you will have introduced some tags that you won't be able to delete also.
  14. It seems this bug has many forms because I have tried multiple database rebuilds across different computers and accounts. The troublesome tags just keep coming back and cannot be deleted which is why I have suggested it must be something server side. Deleting the troublesome tags via the web version gives the appearance of success but they aren't actually deleted on the Mac client app. Sync it up and the web version shows them again ... arrrgh. I could live with the old tags if they were only just visual polluting of my tag list. The real frustration is that they keep showing up in the tag autocompletion which is very annoying and disruptive. ?
  15. An update for anyone that is still experiencing this issue, as I am. I opened Ticket# 2537317 on this issue on 27 May 2018 (~4 months ago) even though this thread was started almost 2.5 years ago (As is typical of Evernote, development effort is put into developing new buggy and, often not requested, features while the existing functionality remains infested with bugs). After performing all manner of technical gymnastics, including two complete deletions (right through the bowels of MacOS) and rebuilds of Evernote on multiple Macs and different Evernote accounts, with the issue returning every time, I pleaded with Evernote to concede the issue MUST be in their application and/or server code and not something client or account related as they were so desperately trying to convince me. At this point I was so hoping that they might finally show some care factor and get onto investigating the root cause starting with some serious troubleshooting of the gazillion log files that I so kindly provided them. After countless hours of apathy and resistance from Evernote who claimed they could not replicate the issue (I doubt they even tried to be frank), I bit the bullet and did their job for them. I wrote up the following procedure to replicate the issue and sent them a narrated video so there could be no crack for them to slip out of: ------ BUG REPLICATION PROCEDURE Scenario 1: Person A can create a tag in Person B's account that they cannot delete Clearly, one user should not be able to permanently impact another users account configuration like this. Person A creates tag <Test Tag A> Person A adds <Test Tag A> to a note in a notebook they created and have shared TO Person B Allow note to sync Person A deletes <Test Tag A> from their account Sync note again and confirm that <Test Tag A> remains in Person B's account even though it has been deleted from the shared note. The orphaned <Test Tag A> in Person B's account correctly shows a "0" count but Person B cannot delete this tag. Scenario 2: Person B can prevent Person A from deleting a tag that they created Clearly, one user should not be able to permanently impact another users account configuration like this. Person A creates tag <Test Tag B> Person A adds <Test Tag B> to note in a notebook shared TO Person B Allow note to sync Person B moves note into a notebook that Person B created and has shared TO Person A Allow note to sync Person A deletes the <Test Tag B> from their account (and receives warning that the tag is in a shared account). <Test Tag B> is removed from the note in Person A's account that Person B shared with them HOWEVER, the note is not deleted from Person A's account. <Test Tag B> is now showing in Person A's account with "0" count (i.e. it is orphaned). Person A again attempts to delete this orphaned <Test Tag B> but is unable to do so with the message appearing again that the tag is in a shared note (even though it is not in the shared note in Person A's account. Person A now has no way of deleting this orphaned tag <Test Tag B> Person B is also unable to delete <Text Tag B> from their account with the same experience as outlined in steps 6-9 ------ After passing through the various internal hoops and hurdles I was delighted to hear back that they were able to replicate the issue and had scheduled it to be fixed in the next development sprint. The next release came. No fix, Then the next. Still no fix. What's going on I asked .... and then it came. The apology and the confession that, in fact, it was not being worked on AND the "product director" had bumped it in favor of "other priorities". There was now no commitment to fixing it, at all. THIS BUG HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AT LEAST 2.5 YEARS, HAS NO MANUAL FIX OR WORK AROUND, IS A RIGHT PITA AND IT GOT BUMPED IN FAVOR OF UPDATING THE SHAPE OF MADS' TRUNK AND THE SHADE OF GREEN IN THE EVERNOTE BRANDING. Way to go Evernote!!! Leading by example by showing all of us long term loyal customers "How to Focus on what really matters" - NOT . To add salt into the wound, and the prompter for me to write this post, I checked on the status of the ticket in my account yesterday to discover that IT HAS BEEN MARKED AS "RESOLVED" EVEN THOUGH IT ISN'T - I STILL CANNOT DELETE THE EFFECTED TAGS. I cannot fathom what corporate culture/performance management/software dev process promotes this as the right thing to do. This whole saga demonstrates EXACTLY why the Evernote business is failing. There are some very good people at Evernote (such as my contact in the support team who is diligent and professional at all times) but they are sadly let down by a management team that simply don't get it. The recent departure of the Evernote's executive team is a welcome sign but I wonder why the person that hired them, and managed their performance (or lack thereof), hasn't left with them. Doesn't the buck stop with them? Doesn't the fish rot from the head? I've given up hoping Evernote will improve. Right now I am just hoping that it gets acquired ... by Atlassian. Evernote's existing customers and staff deserve that class of management. It's nice to dream.
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