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AndyDent

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Everything posted by AndyDent

  1. Is this the only fix scheduled for this beta? The incredibly annoying bug combo of triggering sync by typing plus the bug creating conflicting changes is making my life in Evernote miserable. If you could just get the sync trigger back under control, so I can make that happen only when I want, that would alleviate much of the pain.
  2. The conflicting notes problem I experienced in the beta is still there, although does seem a bit harder to trigger. However, it hit me within the first hour of using Evernote since updating. I logged support ticket #2195069 with the following text: "The problem I raised in Ticket# 2188207 and that was discussed at length in the beta thread still occurs, although with lower frequency. Version 6.12 (455415 Direct). Unlike that original ticket, I ensured that my network was not at all congested - responsiveness in all apps is good and the only thing I was doing in Evernote was busily typing plain text content. Whilst editing a note, on the Mac on which it was created, during a Sync event, that note is wrongly identified as causing a Conflicting Change. This has two effects: 1) the note which I am editing, which has been continually open in a separate window, now becomes a COPY, in a new Conflicting Changes notebook. 2) An older version of the note is "restored" by sync and is the version to which links and shortcuts refer. To fix this, I now have to copy the contents from the updated note into the "original" and delete the Conflicting Changes notebook. Apart from nuisance value, the copying aspect of this bug is likely to result in customer complaints of "lost data". The latest version of a note is being mis-filed and that directly affects anyone using shortcuts or, like me, building up a rich wiki-like experience of linked notes. As a side note, this problem reporting form doesn't allow selecting sync issues in the drop-downs above. I don't know if those result in any classification tags being attached to this report but if you're wondering why this is being tagged as a Notes - Tables issue that's why ;-) I'm a software developer with over 30 years experience and as such appreciate both the complexity of the Evernote service and client code. However, I'm really disappointed with the quality of this release and the fact it went to release despite the long beta issues thread in the forums clearly identifying the problems."
  3. As this is a non-beta version, can we now please log bugs into the issue tracker? For starters, it is still initiating sync as a side-effect of editing a note, even with sync set to Manual.
  4. Correct, which is what I normally do but with the need to keep an eagle eye on the sync indicator, and lift my hands off the keyboard until it stops, I have stopped using separate windows in this beta.
  5. Mike, this is not beta behaviour - it has been around for years. I have always thought of it as a design bug. When I worked at Realm, the mobile database company, I used this behaviour in Evernote as the counter-example - we don't want to force people's apps to behave like Evernote. If anyone's interested, I was on the Xamarin SDK team, implementing the C# SDK to the common database engine. This kind of behaviour is something you have to do a fair bit of work to avoid, it's not a result of someone being sloppy. Consider that lists in Evernote are live in that, whether you have a Notebook list or a search result, as soon as a note qualifies to be in the list, it appears. That's desirable behaviour. Now consider that you edit that note. Maybe you change its title so it no longer matches a search. Maybe you just change its notebook so it is no longer in the current notebook. It is no longer matching the list criteria. What I think should happen is that both new and edited notes, whilst you are editing them, remain in the list but with a visual indicator that they are special. As soon as you move to another note or some other action that affects the list of notes, their right to be shown is re-evaluated. This would also cope with the annoying situation where you edit a note's title, accidentally change it so it doesn't match the search criteria and would immediately have changed it back, if the !@#$@!#$ thing hadn't vanished. However, it is a surprising amount of work to implement. Keeping the note in the list in its current position, when it no longer has the right to be there, is a huge intrusion. An easier thing is to have it vanish from the list but still be active in the editing pane. A better experience is to have its title appear temporarily at a holding area at the top of the list (outside the list control). Apologies for the long, off-topic explanation, but this is a great example of why some things which appear sensible and straightforward can sometimes be 50x the engineering effort (no hyperbole).
  6. Is that in a separate window or within the main multi-panel window? If I have separate windows when I quit and re-launch Evernote, they often never populate. The combined windows have some delay then display their content, seemingly requiring a sync even though the content for those notes was downloaded a long time ago.
  7. I have over 31,000 notes (23GB) and set a long period between sync previously because of the lockup bug with that many notes - there was a point during the sync process at which the app became completely unresponsive. Looking at the Activity log, it seems indeed to be triggering a sync as soon as I am typing in another note. I have now developed a reflex where I try to immediately stop typing when I notice the sync activity. That has avoided any conflicting changes but is not a long-term solution as it requires flow-breaking vigilance. I tried downgrading - you can't go backwards from this beta to the current released version. Your local Evernote data is being managed by a newer version of Evernote. Please use the latest version I don't want to go through downloading that many notes just to test - it is several days worth of sync.
  8. I have a deep suspicion that the preference for frequency of sync is being ignored. Due to sync performance problems with many notes (31K) I have frequency set to once an hour. Whilst writing my previous post about the bug with conflicting changes, I paid some close attention to watching the sync activity indicator. I have now spotted it kicking in after only a few minutes of inactivity. This was after navigating from one note to another, within a main Mac window, and the note taking a few seconds to render with a spinner visible within an otherwise blank content window. However, sitting there ignoring it for much longer did not show it doing a sync. I started editing my diary note again, the common point in this long-winded tale of woe, and the blue sync spinner started up again. I left it a couple of minutes and came over here to write this post and the sync stopped after a plausible duration suggesting it had synced just the updates. However, within a few seconds of my starting to type into that note, it started spinning again. I just verified it now - within about 20 words being typed into a sentence, the sync is kicked off! Conclusion - the act of editing is also triggering note sync.
  9. Further to my bug report Ticket# 2188207 mentioned above, I just realised another infuriating implication of the bug. Say I am busy editing a note so Evernote, as it is doing a sync, decides that the window in which I am busy typing now represents a Conflicting Changed note. I just realised it doesn't move that active editing window to another notebook. The actual effect is that the note I am continually editing becomes a copy in the local notebook. The original, after the sync is back in the original notebook. This may not seem like a big deal, except, I make very heavy use of Note Links and Shortcuts. Those links now all point to the outdated content. My open, independent window, in which I have been steadily working for the last half hour, has silently become a piece of floating Conflicting change content. If I close that window and use one of the links or a shortcut to attempt to open the note again, I end up at the outdated version. My best recourse at this point is to open both the original note and the new copy and copy all the updated content to the old note. In the most deeply ironic incident of this little saga, doing that triggered yet another conflict action and I had two conflicting changes for the same note, with the outdated copy sitting in the original. I only have my sync frequency set to once per hour due to other bugs in previous versions which locked up the entire Mac client for the duration of part of the sync. I'm wishing now I had that behaviour back, it was annoying but didn't lead to as much confusion and data loss.
  10. Thanks, Jason. Some more nuanced feedback - this is not as sensitive to network busyness as I thought previously. It certainly doesn't require my network to be utterly saturated the way it was when I made my initial report. I can reproduce this almost at will by combining two factors. Sync is happening whilst I am editing a note in a separate window (I think this may be a factor but that may also be skewed by the fact that I tend to use separate windows a lot as I work so heavily in Evernote that I typically have 4 or more active windows for just individual notes). I am busy typing within a note. I'm about a 70wpm typist and I have a feeling it is about my doing updates within note bodies, rather than appending to them, which triggers the problem. What makes this a particularly infuriating bug is that it occurs whilst I am editing my active notes. This means my current work vanishes into a local Conflicting notebook - the stuff that is currently most important to me is no longer being synchronised to my other devices. It took me a while to realise this happened - at first I thought I was just losing content from notes. You may have reports from other people claiming note changes being lost because they haven't realised their changes went into a new local copy. Literally, whilst I am working on a note, the notebook of the note changes from say ProductX to Conflicting.... I may also notice the notification in the top right corner of my Mac (I have two screens per Mac, six active screens on my desk between two Macs and a Surface Pro, so one temporary notification popup that fades within a few seconds may not catch my eye).
  11. I called it random discussion because it's a bunch of unstructured threads under one discussion. That kind of feedback is indeed valuable for a beta program especially when it has significant user-facing changes in experience. However, It's not the same as structured bug reporting where the identified bug is being investigated and its status can be tracked by the dev team and the person who reported it. In particular, it doesn't allow for escalation in priority of something if a severe problem is discovered late in the day. The problem I reported had nothing to do with any new features or functionality as far as the user is concerned, it's a bug in normal use. I got snippy, as I said, because it looked like my original report was being closed and handed off to this forum.
  12. I'm a bit bothered that my attempt to log a well-documented bug, which is serious enough to be affecting the workflow of a power user, was redirected here and it seems that's an avenue to closing tickets. What is the point of having beta versions out in test if you prefer to have random discussion in a forum to having proper bug reporting? Have I missed something about how to report bugs on betas? I'm a professional software developer with over 30 years experience and have worked many times in multi-national companies releasing widely-used product. I honestly feel the process pushed me aside here and the value of reporting the bug was ignored. (I am writing this further comment because I received an email this morning saying my question was about to be closed. It was not a question it was a detailed bug report with activity logs attached!).
  13. Please see Ticket# 2188207 - Wrongly reports conflicting changes if typing during sync, which I was asked to post on the beta response forum. The request came without a link, so I hope I'm in the right place with this thread. Body of report copied here for other people's benefit. Note that I do not think this is a beta problem, I think it had started before I downloaded a beta version but I cannot be sure. I am fairly certain this is due to weaknesses in the sync logic coupled with the network being extremely busy with the uplink being saturated by BackBlaze. I'm a Premium user with over 31,000 notes and I've logged at least one other report due to the strain that number of notes puts on the sync code. Since I lodged that report, I had multiple instances of it creating a conflicting changes notebook and moving the copy I was editing into that notebook. There was no other device updating those notes in the meantime, although a sync to another device may have occurred. This has also happened whilst BackBlaze is turned way down and the network is fine, happily streaming an interview from YouTube. It seems very clear that if you are actively editing a note whilst it is being synced, there's some timing window in which the incoming version is compared against what you've edited and it mistakenly considers your edits as being a conflict. Whilst I'm pushing my iMac this hard with BackBlaze, Evernote is the only network-related app having problems. My email works and most web pages are fine, although sometimes they time-out on initial load, especially if I have requested several new tabs within a couple of seconds. I will typically skim incoming email from mailing lists and decide on a few articles to read. Even the Evernote Chrome Web Clipper is coping with the network load, just being a bit slower than normal. Report details: I'm using Version 6.12 Beta 3 (455392 Direct) and running on a Mac where the network is heavily loaded with uploads due to running BackBlaze during its initial upload of hundreds of GB. If I am typing into a note whilst syncing the note, I get a warning of "conflicting changes" and it moves the version of the note I am working on into a new local Conflicting Changes notebook. This occurs on notes which have only been created and edited on the Mac on which I am working - there is no possibility of conflict other than local changes occurring during the sync process. That should NOT constitute a conflict as the server-side note is a subset of the one I'm editing and has no changes from other sources.
  14. I got sent over here after logging a bug. I had an urgent need to use the Evernote web client from a phone because of bugs with the iOS version. I had important notes I needed to access. The iOS client went into one of its sulks - in this particular case it was apparently working but returning the wrong content for a given note so i was completely stuck.
  15. I have been a very happy user of SoundEver for years with big buttons that make it easy to trigger and pause recording plus offline storage of recordings. It is rock-solid reliable and thus I trust it far more than the Evernote iOS client which has lost recordings and has a near-unusable interface. Unfortunately, SoundEver is a dated, 32bit app which is no longer on the stores and will at some future iOS version be probably blocked from launching. It already issues Apple's bogus _this app may slow your iPhone_ warning. So, any suggestions for a dedicated recording app to replace it (I really don't have the time to write one myself)? Must have Offline storage with review/replay on device. Ability to upload notes to Evernote. Pause. UI which allows for hands-free or nearly hands-free use with minimal glancing at device, for safe use when driving. Nice to have Level meter or warning if recording level is too low. Indication of note successfully uploading to Evernote. Easy switching of tagging notes to pre-classify them. thanks Andy
  16. I experienced the same problem. Due to the volume of notes, I have Sync on Wifi Only. The problem i experienced was whilst out on a cellular connection. The note concerned has since fixed itself, after multiple sync on wifi have occurred.
  17. A few observations about why you would want selective sync, yes biased towards people with lots of notes: If you save attached documents and media, your Evernote database size can go up dramatically. Mine is only 14GB because most of my notes are simplified format and I don't include photos. Some people use Evernote as a photo database As an occasional traveler, in the past I have had laptops used mainly for traveling which are not a commonly-used machine. I don't want to have to wait for everything to sync but there's no way on the desktop versions of Evernote to prioritise just a few notes or notebooks. I may want just a few notebooks worth on a local machine if I am keeping research relevant to that machine there, without having to use the web version. (eg: if using Evernote at a work situation I may not want my entire database)
  18. This raises questions about how Search is affected. Is searching currently implemented doing local searches on Windows? Will server-side searching be used for notes you haven't downloaded? The see the note in the note list criteria is a bit vague. Does see equate to just the note title being visible in search results? If so, I think this needs a bit of refining or de-bouncing. Often I will do a search, realise it is either wrong or too broad, and do another one. The combination of doing many broad searches is likely to download a lot o notes, which I am not interested in reading.
  19. Mac Version 6.11 Beta 2 did not fix the bug. I still have to wait until sync completes to be able to see content of notes, when I . It seems it may have a partial fix in that editing sometimes works, providing I had opened that note prior to sync starting.
  20. I just got the same feedback as I logged a ticket asking for a Window Refresh feature to make up for it. I wonder if I'd just let it lie whether anyone would have told me as my original ticket was closed.
  21. Oh, and in case anyone is wondering about my usage patterns: I have two Macs and a Surface Pro with Evernote installed. I also use it regularly on an iPad and iPhone, with a small subset of offline notebooks. I clip everything of interest that may be vaguely useful for later reading or research, using the Chrome clipper. I record regular audio notes using SoundEver on the iPhone, which has a more car-and-bicycle-friendly UI (big ugly buttons) and is very reliable at audio recording. So a lot of my notes come from web clippings but the ones I want to edit are usually relatively simple formatting.
  22. Thanks for the encouragement. I forgot when, but had a vague feeling it wasn't recent - ticket 1759161 was logged on 20 August 2016 with several pages of detailed scenario. The development team is currently aware of this issue, and although I don't have an ETA of when it will be resolved, I can assure you we're working diligently to fix it. I have a lot of years of experience on products which are used by many people around the world (currently I have a day job at Realm, the mobile database company). So, I know what it is like to have to prioritise things. What scares me a bit is that they may have such deep technical problems in the clients, or worse in the overall architecture, that this is not fixable without the kind of rewrite that is not going to happen. Cynically, product companies generally do not tell knowledgeable power users hey, sorry, you're actually pushing our product beyond its boundaries but we're not going to fix it. On a related, but slightly less gloomy note, does anyone have a bright idea on how to force a note to refresh? As a side-effect of this bug, I will often have a blank window sitting there with just the note title and no body. If I could just force a refresh that would help. I tried going into Present mode but that obviously pulls straight from the note data rather than affecting the edit window.
  23. I am fairly certain I fall into some kind of elite victim status as an Evernote user because I have nearly 28,000 notes. There is an ongoing problem with the Mac clients and sync - they are unusable during sync and it takes a long time with that many notes. (I am a developer so may make assumptions about how things work from that perspective.) There appears to be a phase during sync in which the entire app is locked up. It is unresponsive to commands, a cmd-N for a New note has no effect until sync finishes, typing has no effect etc. This phase may not affect people with fewer notes. I suspect Evernote has a fundamental architectural flaw in its reliance on the Javascript-based editing engine. One manifestation of the problem is that there is a lockup of sometimes as much as 30 seconds even before the sync progress spinner starts to change colour and turn. Notes that I select or open in a separate window show up with blank content and remain that way - I have to close the window or choose another note in order to force a refresh. I am getting frustrated by this and related iOS performance issues to the point where I am seriously considering quitting Evernote and moving to One Note. I have been a loyal paying customer for years and recommended it continually but these problems cause me to come to a complete halt in my working lie way too often. I am now trying to work around it by only ever doing manual sync. It's a very sad state of affairs to be reduced to that.
  24. However, in what seems like a misguided attempt to promote it, sending someone a sharing link now goes through Work Chat. It used to be delivered to their email. This has resulted in my co-founder not having a key notebook shared to him whilst he was overseas and I just thought he was ignoring it. Evernote's recent washed-out design has significantly decreased usability to the point where it's very hard to read background prompts as what sections in the Share dialog mean. The dialog starts with a Work Chat list and a Contacts list. However, when you send a sharing message even with a contact, it comes back to a Work Chat dialog so I have no idea if these have gone through. I can't find a way to send a sharing request apparently outside of Work Chat.
  25. It's in my way because it's stopping me sharing a notebook. Sharing request delivery is via Work Chat and there is no way to send them any other way but it is not delivering them. I'm a professional software developer with over 30 years experience including a large portion of that in products used by tens of thousands of users around the world. There have been a couple of times in my years of using Evernote where I've felt a loss of quality and focus - things have been allowed to escape into the wild well before they are ready and the consumer experience has really sucked as a result. This is starting to feel like a dark time and that the people pushing business and chat are spoiling the product.
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