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Vance

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Everything posted by Vance

  1. Yes, all of your files are still in your Google Drive. I did this and created a full back up and then, once the trial ended, I just started adding all new content to both systems going forward (not really very tedious when you get into the habit). Now I have two full systems with all my stuff and feel comfortable that I won't be left out if a service has a hitch or just ends.
  2. Glad it worked for you as well. Since I decided not to continue paying to keep the two in sync, I have been running a "dual" system for a while now, saving things into both places. It is only a bit more work, and it is a great peace of mind having all my stored items in two platforms.
  3. Vance, My response now would be a bit simpler: "Ah, I see why they expected that, and I can see why they would want something different, but the way it works is the way Evernote decided to make it work." No particular value judgments in the mix either. Yes, that works as well, for sure.
  4. Scott, agreed, we may never know how must people use Evernote. But I think the beauty of Evernote is that it definitely does suit the needs of the person who is using it as a cloud storage and access service. In fact, it serves that purpose as well as any service designed with only that in mind. But, I guess the bottom line here is that those who were coming here expecting the export to be different are likely also those who were using it primarily for that purpose. Cal, similarly, I am not sure what we should consider Evernote to be primarily. I know it definitely IS a Dropbox replacement because I used it in place of Dropbox, but we can also agree that it is much more than that. And, it is the "more than that" which not only distinguishes it, but also has influenced on how they treat exporting and transferring. The important point for the discussion is that you all were asking WHY?! Why would we want something else and what exactly would we want that could be better for us? The answer to that question is based entirely on this dual-purpose nature of Evernote. And, whether you guys think ours is really a primary purpose for Evernote, it helps you understand where we are coming from and what we were expecting. You don't have to agree with the way we would want to do it to at least get where we are coming from. Basically, our response very early in this thread was "Ah, I see, that is why that happens, but that is frustrating because it would be a lot more convenient for us if it was done this other way." I would suspect that your response now might be "Ah, I see why they expected that, and I can see why they would want something different, but the way it works is the way it has to work since it is necessary to handle how the rest of us use Evernote".
  5. I think we will never know what the norm is for users, but my impression is very different than yours on that point and I think that the marketing has been "dual" at least. But I think you are right that the export option is definitely reflective of your type of use, regardless of whether that is the majority user or not. I started using Evernote rather than Dropbox (the other only viable option around at the time) because it was just more powerful even as a storage service due to its tagging, searching, organizing, and its desktop client, and the fact that it COULD take notes (which Dropbox couldn't do at the time, that I remember). So, it made sense even for my use.
  6. Yes, following up on a thought in the last post I think most of the disconnect between the two "camps" here could be simply down to the two basic uses for Evernote: 1) as a powerful note taking application and 2) as cloud storage service, a digital file cabinet. A think there are plenty of people that use it one way or the other, but I wonder how many really use it both ways. They are two very different uses, really, but the tools that Evernote provides work well for both. Personally, Evernote is my digital file cabinet. I scan everything in, documents, receipts, contracts, policies, registrations, etc, or I take pictures of things: serial numbers, data I have to get back later. Or, I type quick post-it type text notes: codes, numbers, lists, names, addresses, ideas, etc. Everything in Evernote for me is a single item stored away for safekeeping and cross-platform access. Occasionally I might send an email over or clip a web page, but that is rare. Others use it much more often as a Note creating device, which makes sense, it is EverNOTE. Annotations, attachments, multiple formats, etc. They are using Evernote's capabilities to the fullest, not just as a cloud storage service. I think which type of export you are expecting or find useful could depend largely on which of these two uses predominate for you.
  7. Scott, if you are asking what a good solution would be, then I would suggest the solution that CloudHQ provides: a bunch of options for the formats of the documents being transferred out. As I have said, I am not at all saying that Evernote needs to provide such options, or are somehow derelict in not doing so, they have a method that gets the job done, even if not in the manner everyone finds most convenient. This is not a complaint against Evernote, it is just surprise that it is not what we expected (because we misunderstood at first how it worked), frustration that we now have to find another way to accomplish what we want, but then relief that such a method exists. OK, you ask for a scenario of what could work: imagine that I have a collection of "things" saved to Evernote. Some pdf scans, some photos and some type written notes. I have them in a series of Evernote notebooks and sub-notebooks. I ask to export them to my computer hard drive. Evernote first asks how I want the text files exported (like Drive does: doc, txt, html, etc). That is all it needs to ask. Now the export creates the various notebooks as folders and places all of the saved "things" in the appropriate folder (not in a separate folder for each note). So, in my "Vehicles" notebook in Evernote I now have a Vehicles folder on my computer. Inside is each pdf that I scanned in, each jpg that I stored, each text note that I wrote (in the format I chose). If there does happen to be a note with multiple formats embedded (text files with attachments), then it creates an HTML of that one, or creates a subfolder for that note with the various bits inside, etc. I think part of the disconnect is between those who often create text notes with attachments of various types (as you seem to do) and those of us who just use Evernote as a cloud storage device for individual "things". For your types of notes, then the existing export system makes perfect sense. But my guess is that the VAST majority of Evernote "notes" are not like that at all. My bet is that most are single things. A single pdf scanned in, a single text note, a single photo. These "notes" are really just cloud-stored individual things. In a perfect world, if there are no attachments to a text note, or if the only thing in the "note" is a single item, then that text or that item could just be exported to the relevant folder on its own, the same way I would have stored that thing in such a folder on my computer in the first place.
  8. JohnDM, you seriously think someone is here to market a file folder system? And, the question was answered (even if antagonistically) very early on, this entire thread has been AFTER the question was already answered, it is a discussion whether that is the best way of handling it and finding alternatives. Again, since the first few posts we now KNOW how it works, we are just not really happy about how it works. And our not being happy about how it works gets some people very defensive and antagonistic. But that is OK. It allows for an important and productive (when folks aren't being needlessly defensive) discussion about the nature of the platform, the possible methods of transferring files, etc.
  9. dmwagner, that last bit you wrote is important. Everyone must remember that all of us who were frustrated by this process are Evernote fans. Many of us have been using it for years, evangelizing it to our friends, and loving the fact that it has simply made our lives better. We are posting on an Evernote forum, after all! :0) We are not ditching Evernote, we are not saying that Drive or Dropbox or anything else is a better service for what Evernote does. We were just taken aback by the export functionality and a bit frustrated that it did not accomplish what we wanted, but were pretty happy to find a 3rd party that does, so all was (and is) well. We got to learn more about how Evernote works under the hood (which doesn't mean we are any less frustrated with the export results, we at least get why it works that way), and maybe Evernote found out there is a pain point there for a good number of us that they might want to address somewhere down the road. Or not.
  10. I think that's the big miscommunication -- the HTML export isn't for you. It's for software. The EN export isn't meant to be used fresh -- it's for software to set up an import to make the data work in their program. Some examples of other content aggregates and their export methods: Instapaper - exports to HTML (with intent to be imported into say, Pocket)Pocket - exports to HTML (with intent to be imported into say, Instapaper)Readability - .JSON onlyFeedly - default exports to HTML, though does have option for PDF (read-only)OneNote - OneNote package, .docx (proprietary) or PDF (read-only)So as you can see, HTML export is either the norm, decently normal, or at the very least - editable and flexible. Most products can't or don't export the data in a usable, file-system type manner, unless that's already a core function of the app (Dropbox or Google Drive). Yes, everything depends on the purpose for the export. Those of us raising the issue were using export to create usable copies on our hard drives or into another cloud storage service. We were not exporting it for use in another reading app. So, in that sense we were treating the export exactly in a file-system manner (like Dropbox or Google Drive or, most importantly, our computer's hard drive). Those other services like Pocket and Instapaper export it in a way that can be then imported elsewhere, for which HTML is fine. But it is less fine when you are exporting to store in a folder and will want to go back and open it to read or edit. For that purpose, HTML is usable but not optimal. And in response to that, some may quote Steve Jobs and say that we "are holding it wrong", that we are then not using Evernote in the way that it was intended and our expectations were misplaced. Maybe so, but Evernote has, from the beginning billed itself not just as a note taking app, but also as a cloud storage service. A digital file cabinet. A place akin to your computer hard drive, but safely offsite and accessible by all your devices, tag-able and searchable, etc. So, it is no wonder that many us were thinking all along of Evernote in the same way we thought of Dropbox or Drive. In fact, my pitch about Evernote to my friends was "like Dropbox, but better". When I type a note in Dropbox, it saves it as a txt file, syncs it to my computer hard drive, where I can click on it and read it. Optimally (and I am not suggesting that Evernote has any obligation to do this because, as you point out, it is exporting like many other apps do), it would give options for text files on export. Drive, when you ask it to save a type-written file (which is natively in its own proprietary format), asks you to whether you want to save it as a docx, odt, rft, pdf, txt or html. One side note is that Pocket, Instapaper and Feedly are almost always storing web pages for later reading, not text files you type up. For web pages, HTML is obviously the way to go.
  11. Coincidentally, CloudHQ (which posts stuff about Evernote all the time) just posted this link to an article about Evernote search: https://plus.google.com/103535339336297649359/posts/1ecAaVHxPvV
  12. Ah, the only thing age would have to do with it is that folder systems seem a bit archaic and old-fashioned and those who are younger (under 30 maybe) may be more inclined to prefer search as a means of tracking things down where those of us who are a bit more stuck in our ways might prefer the folder system. I know the younger staff here in our office (and definitely my teenage kids) prefer search, where the older attorneys here prefer to wade through our complex nested directories and folders. Old habits die hard. But it sounds like you are more my vintage! You are more adaptable, it seems! :0)
  13. Jeff, A bit off-topic for this particular discussion, but that is so interesting about your desire to be rid of a file system since I actually invest time getting file systems back wherever I am missing them. On Android, one of the first things I do is install a file explorer and I prefer Notebooks and subnotebooks to just searching in Evernote. I think the difference comes down to search v. browse. I suspect I am a bit older than you and grew up at a time when search was weak, so we found stuff by visually browsing through folders. So, the more organized and granular the folder system you had, the easier it was to find things. Old habits die hard, I guess, because I still prefer to open up a folder or subfolder and scroll through my notes/files to find what I need. I still use tagging extensively, but even then I will often just pull up a tag and scroll through the tagged items. Another reason, possibly, that I do this with Evernote is that I have had numerous occasions where I have done a search and my item didn't show up, even though it had that word is in the title of the note and in various places in the note. I found that it is just more effective to open the collection (tag or notebook) that I know has that item. I would bet that the younger generation is much more search oriented.
  14. Jeff, the bottom-line for my preferred export format for text notes is the format I would choose to save any document in if given a choice. My first choice would either be txt or doc, and I think most would feel the same way. I don't think very many people would choose HTML among a list of options. That is not to say it is unusable, it is just not preferable if given the choice.
  15. Jefito, I think it is almost guaranteed that the type of notes you create will be better served the way Evernote does it. It is those like me, who store single, individual "things" without extra attachments, links, etc, who do better with a CloudHQ system.
  16. JohnDM, we were clueless in only the first couple of posts, as you say before we had it explained to us (although I did forget in all these months the exact nature of the frustration). The point was that the explanation was simply explaining why Evernote would not do what we wanted. We said that was disappointing and tried to figure out how to solve the problem. And we found a solution. After the first handful of posts, it was no longer about a lack of understanding but attempting to explain why we wanted things differently and a few folks getting very defensive and a bit rude about why we didn't just accept how Evernote did it and be happy with it. As I have made clear, I am not upset about this in the least. Evernote has the right to do it however they want, and we have found a better way with a third party. But this seems to bother some who think that any dissatisfaction with one aspect of Evernote must mean we simply don't understand how awesome it is. As for the approach of any particular participants in this thread, I will let the entire thread speak for itself.
  17. B&N, it is not just about searching, it is about browsing through a folder visually (which is what I do most of the time for photos and pdfs). And, absolutely, our surprise was due to our lack of understanding in advance, but our frustration would still be the same at the fact that it doesn't work the way we would prefer (the way CloudHQ does it). This is not bashing Evernote, they are doing it the way that makes sense for them. This thread was originally trying to figure out why it was doing so differently than other services, and you explained that. Unfortunately, you did that in a very defensive, dismissive and condescending manner. But that is fine, we found out the answer to our concerns and found a third party solution.
  18. Okay thanks. It sounds like your process works for you. Just an FYI, not trying to convert anyone. When I started using EN I scanned all of my statements into the app and also kept them in a folder on my PC. After about three months I asked myself why exactly I was doing that and did not have what I thought was a particularly good answer since I knew all of the statements were safe and sound in EN and my backup regimen. That and all my searches were done in EN as well. So I deleted the storage folder on my PC and haven't looked back. Different use case I suppose, but again, I only like have information in one place, other than backups, which are just that, backups for restoring. There are a couple of reasons I want redundant systems. First, no service is guaranteed so having all that essential stuff in one place makes me nervous. Second, having everything on a desktop folder is convenient in a number of ways. Lastly, when I started using Drive more and more, it seemed to make sense to create a duplicate system there.
  19. JohnDM, you are right, my mistake, it has been many months since I did that bulk export and got so frustrated. Yes, the frustration was two-fold. First that all my text notes were in HTML and all my pdfs and jpg's were in separate folders so I had to open each folder on my hard drive just to see that single thing. So, again imagine 1000 individual pdf notes and 1000 jpg notes and they export as 2000 separate folders. I have to open each folder one at a time to see my stuff. What is dramatically more convenient is to have each pdf file and jpg exported into one folder, the folder I created for them in Evernote. Example: I have an Evernote folder called Vehicles where I store all my pdf documents for service, receipts, insurance, etc. When I export, I would want to have all those pdf documents combined into a folder called Vehicles on my hard drive. Instead I get dozens of separate folders each with one pdf inside. No fun at all. As for the HTML, I just really don't like it at all. There is a reason everybody uses text editors rather than HTML for writing text.
  20. I am not really sure of the full search capabilities for those services or for EN, really. But my desire to export is not to have my stuff in a better system, it is to have it also on my desktop in a folder and also to have redundant copies in other cloud services. Evernote is still my primary service (and has been for 5 years), but I want the convenience and security of having my stuff in multiple places.
  21. JohnDM, when you do a bulk export, the pdf or photo I stored in Evernote is now inside an HTML file. I do not want my pdf or jpg's in an HTML file when they are sitting in a folder on my hard drive. I want to be able to see the pdf sitting there AS as pdf and when I click on it I want it to open in my chosen pdf reader. If I have a bit of text I wrote in Evernote, and I export it I want it to be sitting there in a desktop folder in a format that will pull up in a text editor, not HTML. If I stored a photo in Evernote, it is much more convenient when it is exported as a jpg sitting on my hard drive than a jpg inside of an HTML file. Remember, I don't create complex notes in EN, I store individual items or write bits of text. In all of these cases, HTML is not the optimal vehicle for viewing or managing those things. OK, imagine this hypothetical: I have stored 1000 individual pdf documents (each as a separate note, without anything else in the note) and 1000 photos (again, each as a separate note). Now, I do a bulk export of those items to my computer hard drive. Would it be more useful to have 1000 pdf files and 1000 jpg files on my hard drive, or 2000 HTML files on my hard drive, each with either a jpg or a pdf embedded inside?
  22. Metrodon, if you look back over the posts in this thread, all of your questions will be answered. We are talking about bulk exports, whether directly to a desktop or into another storage service. When you do a bulk export, it doesn't always give you back your stuff as you put it in. If I put in a pdf, I get back a pdf inside of an HTML file. That just creates extra work. As for what we would like instead, the thread already discusses that as well. We found a product called CloudHQ which does pretty much what we want. The reason this thread is ongoing is two-fold: 1. People keep coming to the forum with the same frustration I had, looking for a solution. They discover this thread, are amazed that some are so dismissive and condescending, but then happy to find that a third party solution has been found. 2. Others come on either confused as to why we are frustrated, a bit offended that we are frustrated, or wanting to explain why our being frustrated is silly. The first reason is the real value of this thread, and why it will keep getting resurrected every few months as new, frustrated users come looking for answers to this question.
  23. Well, yes, I am definitely not using Evernote to its fullest extent. Like most people using any technology, other than the extreme power user, I leave most features unused. A more apt analogy would be my wife who simply doesn't take advantage of most of the cool features of her Android phone. But she would still get frustrated when one of the few things she does use it for doesn't behave as expected. I might tell her that the reason it doesn't do that thing is because it does a bunch of other cool things, but I would acknowledge that what she is experiencing IS frustrating, Evernote is basically two things, in equal measure: a note taker and a cloud storage service. EN encourages its users to both take notes AND store their scanned documents, their photos, etc, into its storage system for safekeeping and access. They even sponsor a scanner to automatically store those pdf documents to its cloud storage. So, this pedestrian, non-rocket-science use is one of the major things they are promoting to users. And, as purely a cloud storage service, it does have advantages over other such services. The searching, tagging, etc. But in the significant feature of import/export and syncing with a desktop or another cloud service, it is simply not as useful. It is OK to acknowledge that.
  24. No, we now DO understand what Evernote is, and why it does what it does, that has not been the issue since it was explained early on. So, lets clear this up: 1. We know how Evernote does it (database, not folder system) 2. We know why Evernote does it that way (able to maintain notes with varying file types in consistent format) Do not confuse our continued frustration with lack of understanding. We GET it, we just don't LIKE it. 1. We have gotten used to services like Drive, Dropbox and OneDrive which allow us to move files back and forth between them, or to a folder on a computer, with simply copy and paste. This makes moving our "stuff" around, and having redundant storage systems very convenient. 2. For a lot of us, Evernote is first and foremost a digital file cabinet, a cloud storage system, where we store scanned documents or pictures or typewritten notes or web-pages. Very rarely (speaking for myself) do I ever have a "note" which has multiple types of files. So, for me, the HTML benefit of keeping multiple file types consistently formatted is wasted. Its either a pdf or its a type-written note, not both. In short, we use Evernote the way we would Dropbox, but with the added benefit of a nice text note taker and search/filter functions. 3. No, HTML is not the consumption vehicle of choice for most people. People do not use browsers to write and read text as a general rule. When people have scanned documents stored on their computer, they are in pdf format and folks do not use browsers to open them up. When people want to look through some photos, they do not opt for HTML as their means of checking them out. So, there are preferred vehicles for viewing each of these formats and, other than stored web pages, HTML is not it. 4. So, when I have a scanned document stored in Evernote (JUST a scanned document), and I want to transfer that document to a folder on my computer, it is much more convenient to have it transferred as a pdf alone rather than embedded in an HTML file. Similarly, when I have photo that I stored in Evernote (JUST the photo, nothing else), it is much better to have that photo transfer back out as a jpg by itself rather than have the extra step of pulling it out of an HTML file. If I have a bit of written text stored in Evernote, it is much more convenient to have that transferred as a txt file, or a doc file, than as an HTML file. Now, if I have a web page stored, then obviously the best format when exported is, indeed, HTML. Now, I get it, Evernote is not transferring just a pdf, or a jpg, it is exporting a "Note" and to get that "note-ness", it needs a wrapper to put it in to make sure you get all the other stuff that you have included in that "note" along with your original thing. And HTML is that wrapper that can collect all the stuff. But, for me (and for most people, I am guessing), there ISN'T any other stuff, it is just the thing itself that is being stored. That is all. Thus, the original lack of understanding why Evernote was not giving us back what we put in (I put a pdf in, I get an HTML back, with that pdf inside), and the frustration. For us, Evernote is another cloud storage device, a souped-up Dropbox, it is OneDrive on steroids. Better than the rest, but basically the same thing. We now know that is not the case. But here is the primary point: just because we now understand why this is happening, that doesn't mean we have to LIKE that it is happening. The fact that our expectations were misplaced doesn't make the end result any less frustrating. And, please do not pretend that the option that Evernote has is optimal for most users. I will say that it is very reasonable given how Evernote is set up and for those who use Evernote to take complex, multi-format Notes, then sure, HTML may be the best (I don't know any better). But for the rest of us, the type of export options provided by CloudHQ is what is optimal. I don't expect Evernote to provide such a service, and I am not complaining about that or saying they SHOULD provide it. I am just objecting to this idea that HTML is somehow as useful and convenient as an end product for individual pdf's, jpgs and text notes. It is just not.
  25. Dave, any of the cross-platform formats that will open in each other's apps ready for reading or editing. Whether it is a txt, doc, wpd, Open Office file, etc, all of these will readily open in any of the other apps, whichever is set by default as the app for that format, or it will ask me. Any of them are also automatically readable, and editable, in Google Docs. The files are perfectly readable in a browser, but they are not editable there and I am just not comfortable with a browser opening up just to read a text file, I prefer any of the regular text editors, even Notepad! :0) What Cloud HQ did was interesting, for every text note in Evernote it created a pdf, a doc and the HTML. If there was a photo or other graphics attached, it saved them as well in the same folder (In a subfolder with the name of the note). But at least half of what I do in Evernote is scanned pdf's, which are very clearly better viewed in a pdf reader. Edit to add: what is interesting is that Drive (Google Docs) also creates the document in its own proprietary format which is meant to be read "online" in their app, so when you want to export it, it asks whether you want to save it as a doc or txt file.
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