D-Nick

29 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Glad to help.  Keep in mind that article was written from a Mac perspective and the Mac and Windows clients differ in some ways so you might see some differences.

Ta. I can't see that being a problem - I can poke around and find the Windows equivalents, as long as the model/principles are the same. It's the concept of how to use these damned tags to simulate simple folders that is beating me at the moment, and if these guys has actually done it (rather than the others just asserting that tags is all that's needed, with no backup), that's what I need to see.

27 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Ok, that explains it.  The web version, how you are accessing Evernote, is currently a work in progress and not that feature rich.  Go to the Evernote site and download and install the Windows version.  Depending on how many notes you have it may take a little bit of time to download all of your notes but once it is up and running, the comments I and others have provided should now start making more sense.  🙂

Yes, all your good help now makes a lot more sense - thank you very much.  I'll now see if I can work through the article by @JMichaelTX.

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I posted a screenshot above; I think it resembles a "hierarchy of folders".

>>Windows 10

And your Evernote version?

We've established the Op is using Evernote/Web with a Windows Chrome browser

The OP has now (re?)discovered there are two ways of accessing Evernote from Windows 10, and is following the advice to use the desktop client, 6.17.6.8292 (308292) Public (CE Build ce-62.1.7539).

The OP is also going to follow the concrete help from @JMichaelTX in his article about "pseudo-notebooks" to see if that gives instrructions for how to create/emulate a folder hierarchy of notes.

2 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I have made extensive use of tag hierarchies in my concept of pseudo Notebooks:

 

Here is a screen shot of my actual tag list in Evernote Mac.  Clicking on one of the tags will show all Notes with that tag.

Unfortunately, EN Mac does not have the same feature as EN Win to show all Notes that have either the Parent tag or any of its Child tags.

Does this answer your question?

Ooh - that looks promising - thank you!  I shall read through your article at the weekend and see how it works as a hierarchy of folders of notes.  I note the peculiar names that these have - I assume the article will explain what the syntax is there, and why it is needed.
This is very much appreciated - thank you.
I can't look at it tonight, unfortunately - I have already lost two evenings this week into trying to work out how to make a sensible, simple folder hierarchy in Evernote, and am behind on my studies!

7 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

That is interesting.  Are you using the Windows client and not instead logging into Evernote from your web browser?

I am connecting to Evernote using Chrome, from Windows 10.  I'd not realised^* there was another way in Windows.  Let me hunt around.  Thanks for spotting that.

^* Or maybe I used to know, many years ago when I first started this saga, but had forgotten.

Thanks, @s2sailor.  I did see that in the other thread (I am now regretting following the direction to move this to a new thread, as we seem to be discussing it in both places).  That doesn't work for me here, but that's OK - I am sure I can figure that part of it out.  It's the principles of how to use nested tags to simulate a hierarchy of folders/notebooks that I want to do.

8 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

@D-Nick Hover over the Tag line and you will see a + and the search symbol.  Use that + to create the three tags I mention and then you should see the three tags in the left hand pane.  After that you don't need to click on Tags to get the tag list, instead do the drag and drop right from the left hand pane.

Your patience, persistence and politeness are much appreciated, but I'm afraid that doesn't work here.  Hovering over "Tags" in the LH doesn't give a + symbol.  I see the tags only in the RH pane.  The only place I can add tags is from a note.

But don't worry about this - I am confident that I can dig into Evernote and the documentation and find how to do this.  It's hhow to use them to give the multi-level folders that I amm struggling with.

9 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I gave it a go in the other thread if you haven't seen it.

Yeah, for which thanks.  Unfortunately, that doesn't work in Windows.

But I am confident I will find out how to create nested tags in Evernote from Windows.  I am more needing instructions on how to use those nested tags to simulate a hierarchy of folders or notebooks or whatever, with my notes in leaf nodes.

4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

>>Windows 10

And your Evernote version?

Not sure where to find that.  Just whatever the current one is, I guess.

1 minute ago, DTLow said:

I posted a screenshot above; I think it resembles a "hierarchy of folders".

Yes. You have posted that at least twice.  I have no idea how to use that hierarchy of tags (even supposing it is possible in Windows - I am having no luck) to simulate folders that I can put notes in and browse.  I cannot see the connection between your hierarchy and !Thing, _Wotsit, .hoojah and tags:notebook.name.tag.thing that CSal posted.

1 hour ago, s2sailor said:

Now drag tab a and drop it on top of Tag 1 and drag tab b and drop it on top of Tag 1 and you should now see this.  tag a and tag b are now child tags to Tag 1 (similar to sub-folders).  Clicking the triangle next to Tag 1 will allow you to collapse and expand the tree.

Thanks, but that doesn't work here - I can't pick up and drag a tag.  It just selects the text on the screen.  In this screenshot, I tried to drag tag "Egypt 6 - W1" to "Coursera - GIS", but no dice.

2 hours ago, DTLow said:

You'll get more specific instructions if you identify your device/platforms.
You previously identified Evernote/Windows; which version?

Windows 10, but I don't think that the principles I want to understand can be version-specific.  What I want to understand is how to use tags to create (or simulate) a hierarchy of folders or nested notebooks or sub-notebooks or sections or whatever you wish to call them, as you and others have been saying is possible. 

I have been directed to move here (from the long thread about a feature request for a proper folders/notebooks/sections hierarchy) my request for someone to explain how to use the tag hierarchy to implement/simulate a nested hierarchy of folders, notebooks, sections, subsections, etc.  It is common in that thread for people to just says "tags can do this", but no-one seems to be able to offer an explanation of how to do it.

I am not necessarily asking people to put in time to explain it themselves - just point me to the instructions that explain how to do this.

1 minute ago, CalS said:

Right click on the tag icon and un-check Show Tags View.  Though you can drag and drop from the tag view as well.

Sadly, no such item in the right menu here.  OOI, are you using Window or Mac?

26 minutes ago, CalS said:

This means a tag for each of what you refer to as shelves.  So a a tag called !ProfDEv, a tag called !Projects, as many tags as needed to represent your shelve concept.  The leading ! groups the shelf tags and makes it so that when you sort by tags these tags will be on the front.  Ditto for the grouping and sorting of the . and the _.Best not to have spaces in tags, so either put the words together or put a .or whatever.

Just using a variable tag .  If you had a course in Communications and created a tag named .Communications, then a search of tag:.Communications would return all notes with that tag.

Saying that if you search for tag preceded by an ! you will get all notes with that tag, and when sorted by tag the notes will display in the order of your "notebook" tags.  Less about hierarchy, more about grouping notes to area of focus, course/project, and subject within course/project if I rename your groupings a bit. 

• If I want to see the notes for the .Communication course a search for tag:.Communication will display them all. 
• If I create a syllabus note for each course summarizing it and only tag it with a shelf and notebook tag (ProfDev and Communications for example), a search for tag:.* -tag:_* will return only syllabus notes.  Something you can't do with folders.
• Ditto the above with a search for tag:!* -tag:_*, will provide a list of the syllabi for all ares of interest.  Or a search of tag:ProfDev -tag:_* will return all syllabus notes for ProfDev

Personally, I like to provide structure on the fly which tags enable, not so much where they are stored.  I have 4 notebooks of merit across 41k notes.  But it isn't for everyone.  The purpose of this exercise was to show you how one could set your use case up in EN.  Hey, if this is too painful, just don't do it or think about it.  Find the method that works best for you.  Good luck.

Thanks.  I'll clear some time at the weekend to read through that properly and dig into this some more.  It does seem to have a very steep learning curve, compared with a simple folders/nesting model.  I started looking at this maybe 2 years ago, when I moved to a paid subscription, but have so far not been able to use Evernote for anything I wanted it for because I can't get this sorted.

2 minutes ago, DTLow said:

On a Mac, right clicking the notebook/tag icon gives a show/hide option

Thanks, but all I get in Windows is a standard right menu, with no Evernote-specific items in it.

10 minutes ago, DTLow said:

That phrase is used a lot, however there is no "opposing" indicator, just arrows to indicate your support.

For users wanting organization hirearchy, there are solutions posted in the discussion.  For Notebooks, two  levels; for Tags, unlimited levels.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I have seen several times people saying that the folder hierarchy/nested notebooks/notebook sections functionality can be found by using tags, but I have not yet seen a concrete and understandable explanation of how to do that.  CalS took some steps towards that last night, but the arcane syntax of that solution has me bamboozled.  You have twice posted a screengrab from your Mac showing a tag hierarchy, but have offered no explanation of how to use this to provide (or simulate) the folder/nesting/sections notebooks functionality that is requested.  If after 10 years no-one is able to explain how using tags can meet this requirement, it is tempting to conclude that it isn't actually possible, so the feature request stands.

29 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I'm seeing a caret to the left of Notebooks.
Add some tags to notes and you'll see the same for Tags

Click on the caret to show the tree

I do already have a bunch of tags.  I can show them by clicking the Tags item in thAre you sure this works in Windowse left panel, but no caret, no expansion, and I can't right click to create sub-tags.  

3 minutes ago, jefito said:

I think it would be better for you (and this topic) to pursue this sub-conversation in a new, separate forum topic, maybe here: https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/280-organization/. While it would be great for you to find a Evernote solution for organizing your notes, it's not particularly germane to the feature request, which is already way too long for it to be much benefit to anyone else in your situation. Just my 2 cents, though.

Is this not exactly what this thread is about?  I support the feature request, because I cannot see how else to do what I need to in Evernote.  People opposing the feature request say it isn't necessary, because it can all be done with a hierarchy of tags, but the concrete description of how to do that doesn't seem to have been provided.  If what I want can be done adeqautely with tags, I'll withdraw my support for this feature request.

14 hours ago, CalS said:

Square peg in a round hole, wanting EN to perform as a deeply nested folder structure, it can't.  EN can do what you want, but not in a Windows folder metaphor.

Using tags in you parlance, applying the tags as needed to the appropriate notes:

• Shelf tag would contain values for Professional.Development, Projects, Domestic ...  precede the tag name with !
• Notebook tag would contain values for Courses, Projects, ....   precede the tag name with .
• Section tag would contain values for the parts of the courses, projects... some of which might repeat   precede the tag name with _

Searches set up the browse.  A search for tag:!* sorted in tag order will return all "Shelves", "Notebooks", "Sections" notes in shelf/notebook/section order.  A search for tag:notebook.tag.name sorted in tag order will return all notes for the notebook.tag, be it course or project.  Plus other tag searches for other lists of notes.  Lists one can browse at that point.  Horses for courses.

You may want to look at the shelf and notebook breakouts in your layout, there may be some redundancy built in re projects.

I have burned a chunk of today's lunch break in looking at this again, and I'm afraid I still don't understand it.  I suspect it's like a Wikipedia article - that if one already knows the subject, one can nod and agree with the text, but it doesn't help the tyro :)

I am unclear on what you mean by "Shelf tag" containing values.  Do I need to create some kind of "container" or list of values that defines something called "shelf tag" as being that list?  I have hunted through the UI and documentation, but cannot find that described anywhere.

Why do those values need to be preceded with !, _, ., etc?  I also note that you have changed my "Professional Development" to "Professional Development" - must things be named without spaces, rather than the user friendly names that a folder hierarchy might have?

I understand the tag:!* syntax, I thnk, but I just don't get the tag:notebook.tag.name syntax - what is that doing?  What do you mean by "Shelves" etc notes?  Are you saying perhaps that the top levels of the hierarchy also contain all the notes that are further down the hierarchy?  If so, that seems rather confusing.

By "list one can browse" are you meaning that these searches return a browseable list, rather than me having a folder hierarchy I can browse?  The (albeit Apple) screenshots DTLow showed suggest that the tags can themselves be arranged in a hierarchy.

On 3/26/2018 at 7:30 PM, DTLow said:

>>tags ... don't meet the need for sub-notebooks.

I'm not seeing proof of this, just that some users need the tags feature be called something different - like folders.  I think they would then find the feature more acceptable.

I often see assertions in this thread that tags can be used as a replacement for the missing folders/sub-notebooks/sections feature, but I have not yet seen a concrete suggestion for how to do that.  Rather than having to keep repeating yourself, could you give a worked example of how this would work, please?

13 hours ago, DTLow said:

I'm 🍎 only.  I know the hierarchy is available but we need advice from a Windows person.

This is what I am seeing on this Win 10 machine:

7 minutes ago, CalS said:

Searches set up the browse.  A search for tag:!* sorted in tag order will return all "Shelves", "Notebooks", "Sections" notes in shelf/notebook/section order.  A search for tag:notebook.tag.name sorted in tag order will return all notes for the notebook.tag, be it course or project.  Plus other tag searches for other lists of notes.  Lists one can browse at that point.  Horses for courses.

Thanks for the time you put into that - much appreciated.
I have read through it a few times, and am still finding it really confusing.  I need to set it aside and come back to it when I have the brainspace to work through it, which will be the weekend after next.

I think that I need to say that is quite revealing about the difference between a folder-type hierarchy for notes and Evernote-style tags - the tags are just so damned confusing and non-intuitive.  From what I can tell in what you say here, it looks like I am going to need some kind of Evernote-specific search search language to type search commands to be able to browse my hierarchy of course notes, rather than just clicking to expand a hierarchy of folders.

2 minutes ago, CalS said:

Square peg and round hole comes to mind here.  You asked for a way to use EN with your hierarchical strategy, that is what I proffered.  Basically you would select a notebook/stack and then use tags.  🤷‍♂️

Not being tied to hierarchies I would set it up with tags for all of your breakouts and put all the notes in my main notebook.  Simple searches would get me what I needed.  But then that is why the notebook/tag holy war rages on....     As I've said many times before, no issue at all with EN adding layers of notebooks for them that want them  I probably wouldn't use them.

I am not following what you are saying at all.  What is the square peg and what the round hole - are you now saying that Evernote can't do what I need it to do?

Could you say some more about "Basically you would select a notebook/stack and then use tags.  🤷‍♂️" means, please?  Use tags how?

You also say "Simple searches would get me what I needed " - could you explain for someone still pretty unfamiliar (even after several years as a paid subscriber) of how Evernote works how I can use "simple searches" to browse?  I looked for "simple searches" in such documentation as I can find for Evernote, and I couldn't find a function or feature called that.

4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

The tag hierarchy is a Windows/Mac feature.

On a Mac, you work in the Tags page
As you can see in the screenshot, there's a button for creating new tags.

This creates a flat list.
For a hierarchy, click on a tag and drag it to another tag.
This is a similar process to notebooks but with an infinite hierarchy

 

 

 

 

I am using on Windows, and I don't see anything that looks like that at all.  Is this tags hierarchy maybe just for Mac users?