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NoelK

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Posts posted by NoelK


  1. ...

     

    Thanks again for all of the passion around the product.  Please keep in mind that people who are happy rarely frequent the forums so even though a point of view or issue may appear to have 100% support it doesn't actually have 100% support.   I know many of you know this but I just like to mention it every now and then.  We try our best to balance the needs of the millions of customers here in the US and around the world who have varying design tastes, needs and goals.  Thank you for all your input.  We do read it.

     

    Thanks for your post, Marcus, and for the update! I always appreciate an Evernote staff member weighing in here on a discussion. As for the bolded, however, be very careful of this mindset. JMichael has already made some very good points, and I share his thinking on the issue. You may well be right that many who are happy don't particularly frequent the forums, but please don't forget that there may well be many disgruntled users who are also not here to air their thoughts and complaints, there may also be many many more who have simply given up using Evernote silently, or have decided not to pull the trigger and go premium after all... For the moment at least, I've given up using Evernote. I may well return to it in future though.

     

    P.s - As an aside (and definitely no offence meant), I'm guessing you learned to type on a manual typewriter? You double tap space after each fullstop  ^_^


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    "EVERNOTE PREMIUM The professional workspace

    Evernote Premium is built around your core daily tasks of writing, collecting information, and presenting your ideas. It’s the modern way professionals get work done." Source: https://evernote.com/premium/

     

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    Uh huh... go back a few years and see if that word 'presenting' is still in there. It's called Copywriting. I'm sure it'll be updated to include collaborating soon enough. Out of interest though, what is your argument here? So if it doesn't include 'collaborating' right now, it is considered bloat? Writing notes, and collecting information. If Evernote just did this really well, I'd be very happy. Instead, Evernote have made the app bloated with extra features, and still after all these years the editor sucks...

     

    For what it's worth, I don't think you're a troll anyway.


  3. I lost you when you said you cant use OneNote because you are on a Mac..

     

    OneNote is available on a Mac... It also happens to be free... Furthermore it is in the app-store and is an Editors-Choice program. So its not hidden in any way. Type Onenote and you will find it.

    Download it and use it... Problem solved... Please come back and let me know if your needs were satisfied.

     

    I dont know what your point is about public perceptions... Try OneNote.. You will see what I mean.. It is a much heavier application.. And actually has more functions than Evernote... Many more buttons... 

    Again Evernote is the most lightweight production tool I use...

    They need to offer something and not just be lightweight... They are already more lightweight than the rest of them... Obviously it is a fine balance..

     

    But comparing an app that opens in 1 second to one that takes 7 seconds and saying Evernote is too 'heavy', just does not compute with me.

     

     

    Are you always this abrasive in your responses to people in this forum? No wonder the Evernote forum has a reputation for zealotry. As for the bolded, yes. OneNote does indeed have way more buttons, but you know what? One of those very buttons allows me to hide the ribbon bar. Thereby making most of those buttons go away until I actually need them. Frankly, I've no idea why 6 whole seconds would bother you if you're only opening the app once or twice during the day and leaving it in the background while you do other things. Press Cmd+H and it disappears until you need it again.

     

    Out of interest though, when Evernote first started gaining momentum, it was because of the fact that it was a lightweight repository for almost anything I wanted to store there. A digital filing cabinet, if you will. Why exactly does Evernote need to offer more and not just be lightweight now?


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    I am still using 3.3 and I love it but since its old im open to other apps. I cant use OneNote since i am on a mac :(

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    " In fact it is up to 7 times more lightweight than OneNote..." That may actually true, but its about customer perception at this point especially if the last two versions 6, and 5 have introduced new features that folks dont feel is core.

     

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    OneNote was released for Mac a little while back, you can check the app store if you're interested.  ;) I completely agree with what I've bolded in your quote here though. Evernote has stretched way beyond what it originally set out to do that it no longer seems to be suiting a lot of users' needs. Apart from that, users are getting very annoyed that even if Evernote wanted to add these features to the app, they have absolutely no choice in simply switching it off or not. Unfortunately, what comes with added features is a whole lot of lag and bloat. Frankly, I'd prefer if Evernote adopted the KISS philosophy. Keep the regular client simple, and 'trick out' Evernote business for those who actually need this collaborative bloat. 

     

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    I just wanted to add that Evernote regardless of what is said here... (On the Mac to be fair) is much more lightweight than OneNote...

     

    Just based on loading times... (From completely closed, to open) OneNote takes about 7 seconds... Evernote loads up in about 1 second... And my Evernote has probably 50 times as many notes... If you count file sizes etc... I could say it has about 200 times more data in it...

     

    Something to consider... Cant say that my Evernote experience has ever felt bloated... It is significantly faster than all my other productivity suites on my PC.. 

     

     

    Indeed, you're right. OneNote does take almost exactly 7 seconds to open for me. Thing is, 6 extra seconds for me to open OneNote in the morning is not a whole lot compared to how long it takes me to fix, say, a table in Evernote, thanks to Evernote's continually frustrating editor. In OneNote, a table can be fixed and edited quite easily. You can apply this same argument to a whole host of other features regarding the editor, not just for tables.

     

     

    Your opinion should not include:  "How is this so hard to understand?  The radar dish icon in the top bar...  " To such an innocent question presented by me initially:

     

    "I dont see any announcements in the top bar? I am confused on what you mean." -Lykoz

     

    I am not stupid.. It is not that I lack the intellect.. Or did not try to understand what you meant.

    What clearly happened is that your explanation was not clear, so i asked innocently. I dont need to be degraded.

     

    Also you missed my point... I explained clearly in another post where you are also quoted in... How Evernote is the most lightweight of all of its direct competitors. In fact it is up to 7 times more lightweight than OneNote...

     

    They do their thing very well.. Which is keeping notes organised on cloud for access to any device, and collaboration...

    You obviously don't agree with the direction about collaboration... But that is the direction Evernote is going... And it is a great one.

     

    I cant understand the fact that you want to moan about a great product because you dont like a tiny little radar/sattelite image...

    It just does not make sense... It adds so much value to so many people... 

     

    there is absolutely no program where users are so finicky... 

    Evernote is so minimalistic its scary...

     

    Yet users still complain about the smallest of things...

     

    Your right I just dont get it...

    It is wasted debate...

     

    Its like trying to get facebook to remove its little world 'notification' system... 

     

    It is just not going to happen...

    I get opinions.. I get constructive criticism... I just dont get how a little radar/satellite can upset you soo much... Especially if nobody shares anything with you.. Which means it is completely inactive..

    Offer solutions... Alternatives... Not Just get rid of it... And that it bloats up the program.. It cant be gotten rid-of.. Because it effects other users use of the program from a collaborative standpoint... It also cant be an option to disable. I dont want my menubar made more confusing so that you can not look at a sattelitie/radar picture... Furthermore I dont want the radar potentially disabled for anyone I collaborate with.. Because that would make collaboration a nightmare.

     

     

    How nice of you to tell him what his opinion should include. Well done. If we're going down that road though, your opinion shouldn't just include "get over it". That's not particularly helpful in terms of a discussion.

     

    I see you still don't understand why being able to switch off or hide the collaborative aspects of Evernote is entirely possible. You want a solution or an alternative to "always on whether you want it or not"? Give me the option to turn it off, or at least hide what I don't want.


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    It is the Microsoft approach to software to lose focus and try to shoehorn everything into an app.  This is not good.  For anyone.  Haven't you guys heard about doing one thing and doing it right?

     

    I think you need to start making other software instead of trying to cram more features into Evernote to increase its perceived value.

     

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    I've been more disappointed with each new version of Evernote, to the point where I am not going to renew my premium membership and I am actively searching for a replacement for Evernote.

     

    The addition of features like WorkChat and Slideshows only seems to be of use to a small population of users. It's obvious that Evernote is trying to make the application useful for commercial purposes, but they are doing so at the expense of its usability for the average client. The fact that each update further degrades the core functions of the application is a bit baffling, however. If I can barely take notes, make attachments work, etc. as an individual user, I sure as heck wouldn't be interested in using this product for my business.

     

    The only thing keeping me on Evernote is the hope that one of these updates will actually fix the product... and the fact that I have accrued a ton of notes and documents over the years. It's a shame that I'm considering abandoning a program that I have used on a daily basis for 3+ years (and that, once upon a time, I would often recommend to others). 

     

    Incidentally, I've begun to shift all of my notes and other work over to OneNote for Mac. It's a dedicated note taking application, and while it's true that Microsoft have a habit of cramming a whole load of unnecessary features into their apps, OneNote has thus far managed to remain stutter-free. It takes a little while to get used to, but once you've figured out how to use the tabs, sheets, and notebooks properly it makes a lot of sense.

     

    I still have a lot of my notes in Evernote, though. It's hard to let it go as I've been using it for so many years now, but it's just being taken in a direction that isn't suitable for how I want to work. A shame, really.


  6. Please, please re-do the design!

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    This latest update for Mac takes away the signature "look" of Evernote. The screen looks entirely too boring for Evernote.

    I agree with this too. I find myself using the web client a lot more than the OSX app, for a few reasons:

    1. The character of Evernote is still there with the green and grey accents on white. It's very nice to look at;

    2. It's still functional enough for my more basic needs, and I find myself having a Chrome window open pretty much all the time anyway. And last, but certainly not least;

    3. Work Chat is not front and centre to dominate my toolbar and create those occasional niggling distractions.

    In short: Evernote, in my opinion, absolutely ruined the Mac app. Indeed, they've been slowly ruining it in increments throughout the years... Alas, there is no good replacement as of yet.


  7. To have to explain to him that he has to turn on workchat... or explain some arbiatary e-mail process that I dont know about because he has turned off his work-chat would be incredibly frustrating...

    Or you could simply do what we've all been doing since 2008 - email the note. Absolutely no need for the recipient to turn on workchat at all.
    I'm not entirely sure Lycoz has been using Evernote longer than 6 months. Apparently making sure the entire team he is collaborating with has Work Chat turned on is an act of colossal heroism. And I speak as someone who has had to setup design standards for an entire engineering company for the switch to Autodesk Revit... Organising a team really isn't that difficult.

    I have no problem with work chat, it's the front and centre, no-choice-of-on-or-off nature of it that irks me.

    You just dont get it.

    Again its fine...

    The real professionals do get it.

    I cant rehash the exact same things over and over...

    Its a small button... Get over it...

    Its there to stay.

    Your annoyance at a little button is bewildering...

    I wish the human race had more important things to argue about...

    I am done here.

    Ah, the argument of condescension? Yeah, sorry, no. You can claim my point of view is invalid because "I don't get it" all you like, but it isn't an argument.

    If it was such a "little button", your earlier argument as to how it had such a big footprint are now invalid.

    If you just "don't get it" that some people don't need Evernote to be collaboration software, fair enough, but it in no way invalidates my argument, and that if other people's. Users have desired customisable toolbars pretty much since it was removed from Evernote for Mac. They've shown how much they care about this issue for users. For Evernote's sake, I would hope no developers are planning to release a dedicated, focused note-taking repository to compete directly with Evernote.

    Maybe the human race does have more important things to argue about, would you like them to do it here, in the Evernote forums? Really?

    • Like 1

  8. To have to explain to him that he has to turn on workchat... or explain some arbiatary e-mail process that I dont know about because he has turned off his work-chat would be incredibly frustrating...

    Or you could simply do what we've all been doing since 2008 - email the note. Absolutely no need for the recipient to turn on workchat at all.

    I'm not entirely sure Lycoz has been using Evernote longer than 6 months. Apparently making sure the entire team he is collaborating with has Work Chat turned on is an act of colossal heroism. And I speak as someone who has had to setup design standards for an entire engineering company for the switch to Autodesk Revit... Organising a team really isn't that difficult.

    I have no problem with work chat, it's the front and centre, no-choice-of-on-or-off nature of it that irks me.


  9.  

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    To have to explain to him that he has to turn on workchat... or explain some arbiatary e-mail process that I dont know about because he has turned off his work-chat would be incredibly frustrating...

     

    It just doesnt work...

     

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    You tell him: Preferences>Work Chat>On

     

    This would frustrate you? I'll be honest, being able to customise the toolbar as I have done with Apple mail and several other apps would be more important to me than switching Work Chat off, but I really don't think this would be as frustrating as you make it out to be.


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    Why should other users be inconvenienced or irritated at the lack of customisability, or turning off features that they don't want, just so that they don't inconvenience you? So what you're saying is that what somebody else wants is irrelevant or unworkable simply because it will inconvenience you? Why must your email be spammed? Why, because I might work that way

     

    And so anyone who doesn't like the route that Evernote is going down here are just moaners who want to troll forums? As if I have nothing better to do. Frankly, the only reason I still use Evernote is because there is no real competition. One Note is way too clunky and others like Simplenote (which incidentally, Evernote 6 looks very similar to now) are lacking in certain features.

     

    I have used Evernote ever since the app actually lived up to it's name. Evernote. It was a note-taking repository that I could brain-dump into, keep pictures for research, save useful emails. Nowadays they're trying to make it into a complete collaboration and project management tool. It ceases to be a pure and powerful note-taking tool the further Evernote takes it in this direction. And here lies the crux of the matter: Evernote wants to make an app for all-in-one collaboration, I just want a powerful note-taking app and repository of information.

     

    As far as being able to switch off Work Chat goes, though... is it really so hard to ask those you plan to collaborate with to make sure they have WC switched on?

    Preferences>Work Chat>On 

    Very same as Context. And this way, your coworkers can at least switch it back off when the project is over. I find it hard to believe that those that actually use Evernote for collaboration would have it switched off, accidentally or otherwise...

     

     

    Everything I said went right over your head... 

     

    Its not about inconveniencing me... What you are suggesting would make Workchat break... It would not work...

     

    I think the Evernote team knows this... 

    They will ignore your suggestions... Because they are professionals.

    They know to just ignore what you are asking for... Because practically it is nonsense.

     

    I explained it to you.

    You dont get it.

    Thats fine..

    It wont change..

    I can guarantee that.

     

    Time will tell.

     

     

    Very aware of how often Evernote listen to users in regards to customising the toolbar, believe me. If this is the direction Evernote want to go in, that's their decision. I am, however, free to criticise and voice my opinion on a user forum. If Evernote actually finds itself in competition with a powerful, focused, note-taking repository, I would imagine myself and others would be away quickly enough.

     

    The condescension was quite unnecessary, too. I get it just fine, I just don't agree with you at all. WC can easily be used for those who want it, and not for others. Frankly, if that's how you want to be then fine, end of our discussion. I won't continue on with rock-headed fanatics.

    • Like 1

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    The crux of the argument is that by you getting customisation of work chat you essentially limit my ability to use it. Its a case of it either exists.. Or it doesn't.. You cant have something like that "half-exist"... 

     

    People who say they dont use it and want it gone/or turned off are the moaners that dont use it...

    We always see complainers in force on forums.

     

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    Evernote either IS or is NOT a collaborative tool... 

    I think they want it to be... I believe there is huge power in it being collaborative... I can access it on all my devices...

     

    Why should I not be able to share things with other users effectively? Why must my email be spammed when someone shares something on evernote with me? Why cant the program just handle itself...

     

    Workchat is important for this. If half the users have it turned off.. it becomes unreliable and frankly useless to those who want to use it.

    I have enough stress in my life... I dont need the stress of weather somebody is recieving my workchat messages or not.

     

    Why should other users be inconvenienced or irritated at the lack of customisability, or turning off features that they don't want, just so that they don't inconvenience you? So what you're saying is that what somebody else wants is irrelevant or unworkable simply because it will inconvenience you? Why must your email be spammed? Why, because I might work that way

     

    And so anyone who doesn't like the route that Evernote is going down here are just moaners who want to troll forums? As if I have nothing better to do. Frankly, the only reason I still use Evernote is because there is no real competition. One Note is way too clunky and others like Simplenote (which incidentally, Evernote 6 looks very similar to now) are lacking in certain features.

     

    I have used Evernote ever since the app actually lived up to it's name. Evernote. It was a note-taking repository that I could brain-dump into, keep pictures for research, save useful emails. Nowadays they're trying to make it into a complete collaboration and project management tool. It ceases to be a pure and powerful note-taking tool the further Evernote takes it in this direction. And here lies the crux of the matter: Evernote wants to make an app for all-in-one collaboration, I just want a powerful note-taking app and repository of information.

     

    As far as being able to switch off Work Chat goes, though... is it really so hard to ask those you plan to collaborate with to make sure they have WC switched on?

    Preferences>Work Chat>On 

    Very same as Context. And this way, your coworkers can at least switch it back off when the project is over. I find it hard to believe that those that actually use Evernote for collaboration would have it switched off, accidentally or otherwise...

     

    Better still would be to include Context and Workchat in Evernote Business, but not have them in there at all in Evernote Personal.

     

    This is also a good idea.

    • Like 1

  12.  

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    Workchat is very usefull to many...

    Customizability confuses things

     

    I think the problem lies more in its placement and how its in a position whereby it messes with visibility and spacing to buttons that other people consider more important.

     

    i.e. if I put evernote in half screen... I cant add tags or search properly... because the top bar gets cramped and unusable...

     

    We need to features we use all the time to always be there... half screen or not... 

    Workchat.. I could live with it being compromised in half screen...

     

    What I cant live with is my search/addition of tags etc being compromised...

     

    Its just one button... They need to place it better... probably make it smaller too...

     

     

    I completely understand work chat's usefulness to others, hence my example. I'm sure a lot of business associates, office workers, entrepreneurs, and so on find huge value in being able to collaborate right within Evernote. I've absolutely no problem with this. My problem, however, is that I personally use Evernote in a different way to these people. It's very much a personal repository of information for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I may not be a UX expert, but I fail to see how having a simple on/off toggle in the settings would overcomplicate things. I mentioned that Evernote's new Context feature can be switched on and off in exactly the same way Work Chat could be, and this doesn't complicate anything. Likewise, those users of OSX may be very familiar already with how OSX allows customisation of the toolbar. (View>Customise Toolbar... From there, it's a simple drag and drop)

     

    These problems that you mention seem to be fixed in a very similar way to my own... Obviously, the placement and size of the Work Chat button is a problem for some, but one that is easily fixed by being able to turn work chat off, or being able to customise the toolbar.


  13. Since there is still discussion about the buttons being customisable (which I completely agree with), in particular the Work Chat button, I thought I might ask why exactly is it that this new contextual feature for Evernote can be switched off if I want it, but Work Chat cannot? Why can't I switch that off?

     

    Let me emphasise this further:

    I do not use Evernote in the same way a business executive (for example) uses it.

     

    do not need to collaborate with coworkers through Evernote. I do not want a chat client built into the same app I use to take notes, outline ideas, and in general produce raw information from my head to the computer before I work through it properly later in the appropriate program. Why (WHY?) can I not customise Evernote for my own needs/uses? Please consider making various elements customisable. The toolbar would be a great place to start.

     

    Please consider adding the Evernote green accents back in. In a misguided attempt to follow Apple's guidelines for Yosemite, I think you guys have completely removed the soul and character that was there with older versions of Evernote. Such a simple thing, green accent colours, could go a long way to alleviating people's problems with the new grey-on-grey-on-retina-burning white. I'm seriously considering just using the web client from now on.

     

    I write this in the assumption that the Evernote dev team actually listens to it's users and would like to actually improve the experience. That said, I'm happy you guys will be making the app more and more stable as time goes on.

    • Like 2
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