Pavel Sapehin

7 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

V10 uses a different basic data structure than legacy. This means that as long as there are legacy clients syncing with the server, the server needs to service 2 interfaces and 2 sets of data.

Until the legacy clients itself would support the new data structures. Not sure how much it could cost for BS, but dedicating a separate team to update legacy could be another option. At least to keep up with the new sync API. They should still have the source code. Supporting the old API may be adopted by all legacy clients, but if it is so complex as you say, hard to say what is cheaper. Outsourcing some obsolete parts is another option which may allow to keep or even build upon legacy for less than having a dedicated high-paid team. But probably someone is already calculated costs and what we discuss here is the result.
 

18 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

If v10 works for you you need to find out yourself.

I wish it could be so easy. It depends on the company's success. Because if it fails, there is no points to invest efforts into legacy or v10. IMHO Evernote took the wrong turn somewhere around 2018. There is still a chance to make it "right". And maybe this is what many people in this thread are trying to convey?

5 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

not only consistency across platforms, but, for instance, backlinks

During 10 years of using different note-taking apps (evernote, notion, one note, plain.md doc, obsidian, diagramming and mind-mapping tools, paper notes, etc) I developed my own system of cross-links, so back links is too late to the party in my case. Though it's a great feature, I avoid using it because my system allows much more than just "backlinks".

Nevertheless, this feature could be implemented without introducing breaking changes to the existing clients. I don't know why they did how they did it, most likely there was a good technical reasons. As for other features. Tasks - well, for me it's just a distraction because I use Azure DevOps, Jira or Notion for task tracking. Task tracking in Evernote looks like a child game for 5+. And then "home page/dashboard", which goes above "All Notes". First of all, this dashboard is not flexible enough to be called a dashboard; secondly, it's not useful enough, because this page takes from 3 to 10 seconds to open for me, and it does not contain what I need 90% of the time. That's why I would prefer not having it at all. It's so annoying.

I can go on explaining why other new features are not useful in v10, but many people already explained it in other posts. Sure, it's subjective in a sense, and not everyone have an experience with other apps which do many of what "new features" do in Evernote, but much much better.

8 hours ago, ferol said:

In my opinion, the main problem is actually the new synchronization method and not Electron...

We have real time, but that means that every single task is immediately synchronized... and apparently every change crawls the Evernote servers first and then comes back locally. If every change to Tag etc..

In contrast, Obsidian actually uses the sync method that Legacy used.. i.e. priority is done on the local database and sync goes in the background. The same is the local Dropbox. But it does mean a risk of conflicts if done at the same time from different locations on the same files..

 

Personally, I get used to buggy sync in legacy, which was crashing the app from time to time. But the app itself is responsive. You know how in the past times people were saying "you don't need a monitor with a refresh rate more that 60 Hz, your eyes just don't see it"? Well, now we have 244 Hz refresh rates in monitors, and still some people may say it's not enough. Going from the native app experience back to electron app is like going from 244 Hz monitor to 60 Hz. When you try 244 Hz, you can't withstand 60 Hz anymore. And still there are people, and even companies, who are trying to convince you that 60 is OK.

Plus, UX on legacy is much better than in v10. UI on v10 may look sleek and modern, with dark mode support. But guess what - I do not care. I didn't like some aspects of the UX in legacy, but when you use it, you starting to understand why developers did what they did - it convenient. In contrast, in v10 while you are using the interface, you realize - there is no logic behind that justifies the behavior of the buttons, transitions, etc - it's bland. No pun intended to people who was designing that UX, most likely they did what they were asked for.

And then electron, once again. This beast eats tons of memory, it's sluggish. Evernote Legacy on Windows only takes 260 MB of memory. Evernote Legacy on Android takes less than 100 MB of memory (roughly, I haven't measured it precisely). Tell me how much memory your brand new v10 uses? You may tell "there are tons of electron apps that we are still using - vs code for example". VS Code is great code editor - and what it does well - it has awesome UX, which works around the sluggish electron shell and gives you that feeling of nativeness. v10 does not do that.

So, please, go with your 60 Hz if you want, but stop telling us that it's OK.

7 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Who is still on legacy has decided to stick with software that was deprecated more than 3 years ago.

Anybody who is subscribed today has decided several times to renew his subscription, knowing that the only supported version at the moment of subscribing again was v10. This was already public knowledge for anybody subscribing in 2021, and in 2022 when he renewed, and in 2023 when he renewed again.

That is part 1 of the story. All victims, I know, of evil corporate marketing voodoo that made them renew 3 times, even when knowing they will use the unsupported part of the service.

Part 2 of the story is the fact anybody can keep his legacy client as long as he wishes for, and use it local only. It is just the access to the cloud server that is removed, for security reasons. 

But sure, class actions are made to force companies to put all users data at risk just to shield the procrastination of a few ***** (fill in the stars, but think about something NICE when you do).

9 minutes ago, CalS said:

Comes back to BS/EN not setting a date certain as to sunsetting legacy.  It left a crack.  Anyone who has a remainder of sub left could feel they were shortchanged.  Logically anyway.

Not saying  a law suit makes any sense.  Not saying whining about it makes any sense.,  Not saying hanging on to the hope of Legacy lasting forever.  Just saying not having hard knowledge of this year you are signing up for is not a full year is valid.  I have no sympathy, but I understand the point.

What is the point of telling people who sticked to Legacy to stop using it? Why just not let people here to rumble about what they don't like? What is here for people who decided to move with the latest version?

Anyway, if there is no future for legacy as you say, why not just open source legacy clients? People could made it compatible with the latest API in days. BS may focus on their API and it's security (as they said that security is the most critical issue for them), and people who still want to use legacy will be able to do so.

36 minutes ago, Feitz said:

This would probably work but you must never log out. The moment this happens (accidently) you're out of luck and won't be able to access your contents again.

32 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Exactly - seems like a single (and very final) point of failure.  If you lose connection,  not only is your only access to your notes on the server via v10,  but any recent additions are locked in a database to which you may have no other access...

That's true. Probably creating a complete read-only VM backup (e.g. a Virtual Box machine with Tiny11) and only using a copy of this VM will allow to have a fallback recovery method. At least till another method for "offline sign on" is discovered.

[IDEA] Seems like there is another alternative/workaround for using the Legacy Client on both Windows and Android (though, it's not for the masses for sure).

Still, haven't tried it yet, but:

1. Setup Evernote Legacy client on Windows (and LOGIN, which is important to do BEFORE the shutdown)
2. Install Syncthing
3. Add evernote database folder to Syncthing
4. Install Wine for Android
5. Install Syncthing and Evernote Legacy for Windows in Wine and LOGIN
6. Setup previously configured Syncthing folder on Wine to point to Evernote database folder

And if all the above steps succeed, then what you may end-up is free of charge Evernote Legacy app. Seems like syncthing supports block transfers, and the sync should be relatively fast. Well, with some concerns (probably more than this):

1. No sync with evernote servers, no web-clipper
2. Still, there is a login issue - the clients must be logged in before they are shutdown
3. Most likely using Evernote Legacy on Wine may be slow on Android (if working at all, has to be verified)
4. Do not use this setup simultaneously on both devices, if you modified anything on Windows, sync with Android first, and only then modify on Android and vice versa. Else you may end up with syncthing file conflict

2 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

EN is a cloud service.

It's half-true. One of the most advantages of evernote native clients back then was an offline full-text search.

4 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

They offer a service based on a subscription, it updated to a new version more than 3 years ago. Now they took the business decision to stop offering the service based on the old, deprecated software (for reasons explained in their blog).

What they offer now, is completely different story. And how they deprecated the legacy client - it's another question. It's disrespectful to some users.

7 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

That‘s it, move ahead or leave.

This is dualism. When much more options available, limiting existing options with no reasons.

35 minutes ago, ferol said:

Getting angry, complaining, criticizing the new owner of Evernote and similar comments won't help any of you anyway. I understand everybody... until last summer, I also stuck with Legacy. But when I saw that the future didn't lead then, I'm in v.10...and it's working well for me. No competition works so well for me and I've tried a hell of a lot of it (at least 30 more or less well known systems)

Relying on the fact that someone independent decides to develop a system to synchronize old clients and release it for others is unrealistic in my opinion. There is a quantum of quality competition on the market that may suit you. 

 

Even here on the forums you can run through several posts.

 

But most of the services are paid anyway. You will find at least 5-10 services that can serve you well and more are being created... I suppose you don't expect that there will be someone who will take over windows XP and will continue its maintenance independently..

I wasn't criticizing anyone in particular, I criticized a specific decision which is the title of this topic "Evernote legacy ending on 2024-03-23".

You are trying to protect this decision or at least tell that there is no way around. Well, there are always ways around. Windows XP could be supported by a third party if Microsoft would have open source Windows XP code under a valid open-source license (which is unlikely). The same applies here.

I could even write this server myself if I was having enough resources and time. Though, I wont do it because the app is protected by copyright laws.

24 minutes ago, ChristianJB said:

No, because security vulnerabilities affects all users, not only legacy users. 

Util the app is made offline or the server is released as a standalone service - it won't affect anyone. Also, the evernote team could even create a docker container which everyone could self-host. In such a case it won't affect anyone as well. Everything is possible.

9 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Nobody is forced to use v10.

If these legacy users were so clever to stick with an abandoned software for so long, they are clever enough to find their next app and move their content there.

4 weeks, guys. No time to waste time here in the forum. You procrastinated for more than 3 years now - it’s action time, wake up !

Everyone is forced to use v10. Procrastination is not what happened here - most of the people stuck to v6 for completely different reasons, already mentioned above.

Let's be clear - legacy clients were marketed as the most advanced note-taking apps back in 2018(?). Many of us were paying for a subscription. The monthly cost of the subscription was around 70$, which is more than the cost of the most one-time-paid apps (examples: WinCatalog, Acronis Backup, etc with a price around 50$). Pay once use the version you paid forever. Personally, I don't care about syncing as much as subscription-based services explain their costs by saying "we should pay our cloud bills". We were being told that with Evernote we could keep our notes forever. But see what is happening now - we invested in the app, and we can't use for what we paid? Security? Bulls**t. I could run evernote in a VM without access to internet. The new app is too slow and unresponsive for me. And I want to have access to notes created in the legacy app without migration to any other app. Someone decided that he can make more money on the new version. It's "your" choice, but let me keep for what I paid. The legacy evernote app is just a piece of a software which can be easily made "offline-only" if you don't want to support it anymore. But blocking users from using it even when they understand the risks - it's fishy, isn't it?

I only wish someone will create an open-source alternative for syncing notes between legacy apps at some point. 

2 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

An EN note is like a little website. The tables are HTML constructions.

If the website you copy from uses the same HTML code as EN for its tables (even if it shows differently), it will build a table from the code, holding the snippets of content.

If you want to get the code only, insert the "Paste & adapt style" shift-cmd/ctrl-V, then select it and click on code block in the blue + menu.

Thank you, I'm aware of that. This is a nice trick, but it requires manual efforts per each block on a web-page. Also, as a full-stack web-developer and chrome extension developer I know that it's possible to "transform" the page content (similarly to what "Simplified Article" mode does in the web-clipper).

Hi,

Many web-pages that contain code-blocks hosted by github (e.g. this medium article) are clipped as tables in evernote. For example, this is the original code block:

And here is how it looks after clipping:

Please, wouldn't it be better to clip them as the actual code-blocks?

On the latest Evernote for android on Galaxy Note 9, I should wait from 2 to 5 minutes to add a single tag to a note. Probably, because I have a lot of tags, but tags work fine on the Evernote 8.13 for android (without any delays). Tags are the core feature of Evernote, there are no ways I can use the new version of the app with such performance. Surely, the new app adds new features and unifies all platforms, but at which costs? It's barely usable, and it's been in development for more than two years. The evernote team, please, do something with that. I'm using the app from 2012, and, even as a long-term customer, instead of praising the app, I see more and more reasons to abandon it.

Many app owners preserve a legacy version of their application as a separate app in the android store (for example, Feedly). It's unclear to me why Evernote didn't do that. I still can't use the updated version (10) of the app due to very long startup times. It makes it's unusable for taking quick notes. I have more than 20000 notes in my account and the newest version starts longer than in 5 seconds on a Galaxy Note 9. I often may forget what I wanted to write when it starts.

So I've installed version 8.13.3 from apkmirror. Likely, it's still working and it's much more responsive.

8 hours ago, LazarB said:

Yes, EN offers a fairly rich suite of meta-operators (e.g., intitle:, etc.) but this is of a different animal than Boolean-style searching.  Consider a simple search for

receipt OR (invoice AND paid)

I'm not sure how this could be done in EN without multiple steps and artificial tags.  I wouldn't dismiss this as an "advanced search."

6 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

This what I mean with advanced search. 

You basically need 2 search levels in one expression

• invoice AND paid
• receipt OR the result from invoice and paid

It is easy with the current EN search to create each expression, but not to create the 2 dependent levels. From the view of EN this is complex.

From a practical view, you would probably search for both in 2 consecutive search runs. Each will deliver a partially search result. In general EN search is better in getting you fast close to the note you want to find (and do the last step visually), than selecting a specific note from the „heap“ with a complex search formula, that will exclude all but the correct note.

Though Evernote doesn't support a "true" boolean search, I agree that you can find almost any note. From my experience, a "true" boolean search may be required for some advanced GTD/planning/dynamic setups and queries. BUT if you need such a complex setup, then Evernote is not your best choice. Try notion databases. They are free and can do very complex filtering, as well as showing different search results in predefined views. I gave up using Evernote as a planning tool. I use it as cross-platform cloud storage and journaling/note-taking platform with awesome search capabilities. But no more than that.

On 11/24/2020 at 11:54 AM, DMiddleton said:

Just wanted to share this as an example of how simple this could be, Nimbus Note have a public roadmap:

Nimbus Roadmap - Nimbus Note (nimbusweb.me)

It doesn't have any dates or expected ship times but at least it gives users a sense of what they are working on and what is to come.
This was my initial wish in this post that EN did something similar just to give the users some general idea of what is happening as the lack of communication is what is causing a lot of unrest in the community I feel.

Also, there is the VS Code roadmap. It's not as clear as the Nimbus's one, but it's additionally using Github's issues. And the VS Code also uses the same tech as the new Evernote app - electron engine. Please, learn from them.

No offence to the Evernote team, but hey, the app costs 70$ per year, and we are sitting with version 6.25 for almost a year on Windows. If it would cost 10$ per year, or if it were only a one-time payment of 25$, then I would say, "well, at least it's cheap". But it is not. We deserve at least a clear roadmap. With that said, I won't renew my premium subscription until something changes.

I wrote a small application (and using it for more than 2 years) that replaces the default browser, parses each link and if it matches Evernote, automatically converts it to evernote://... and opens it in the desktop version of Evernote seamlessly, else it opens the URL in the browser.

If a lot of people are interested I could share it.

On 10/28/2019 at 2:47 PM, PinkElephant said:

Since this thread was silent now for 2 years, I doubt it.

From the current trend in handwritten note taking, it is moving away from the „special pen & paper“ solutions to writing directly on an iPad. Nearly all new models support the Apple pencil, gen.1 or gen.2.

The EN handwriting app Penultimate is IMHO not up to the job. I am using GoodNotes 5 for handwritten notes, others are happy with Noteshelf, Notability or others. Or you write on paper, take a picture of it and import it to have it OCRed.

It may be, or it may not. The "Moleskine Notes" app for android is still getting minor updates from time to time.

I still prefer the "special pen & paper" solution to a digital one in some cases. I do brainstorming sessions, and quick drawings on the YOGA laptop using a pen. Or on Galaxy Note 9.
But when I have to tackle a problem that seems unsolvable then I take the Moleskine Notebook and the Ellipse Smart Pen.

Though,
It seems like syncing Moleskine Notebooks and Evernote integration is implemented very poorly.
I can't make changes to synced notes in Evernote because after running sync again in the Moleskine App it generates a "note conflict".

16 minutes ago, DTLow said:

You're welcome to indicate your support for the request using the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion   
   
I'm curious at the "needed"; could you provide more detail    
I rarely export/import a note, and I'm not clear about "an active css that makes a banner stick on top of a text"   
afaik  The export/import duplicates the note (except for note-id and notebook)

After clipping some websites, notes still can contain "hidden" CSS inside. This may negatively affect the clipped note. Not very often but it may happen. Some real cases from the top of my head:

1. Ad banners can be presented (as I mention previously) - on some websites they are "sticky", meaning when you scroll a page down, they stick to the viewport. This behavior can still be presented in the clipped note plus became much worse. Sometimes a banner is drawn on top of the text, so you can read it. When you scroll, the text still not visible because the banner is always XX% from the top/bottom of the Evernote window (windows\android).
2. Greenish/blacking/etc backgrounds sometimes make text unreadable. I remember a website having a black background and a white text. After clipping the text color changed to black or almost completely black (no idea why). And it wasn't visible at all.
3. Title images completely cover text. And after using the "simplify" feature the text is going away.

You are right, the "needed" part is subjective. But I saw similar threads regarding the topic. And some people even made scripts to change the source. But those scripts are outdated and not usable anymore. From a developer's point of view, it's pretty easy to modify a source. But it may not be easy from the UX/UI point of view. And I believe, that is why this feature still does not exist in Evernote.

I haven't used export/import too, but I saw people recommend it on this forum as a way to modify the source code of a note.

I believe evernote should not support HTML editing itself, but it should give a way to a user to edit (at least copy and replace) a "source code" of a note.

No complex editors are required, just show the source code as a text, so I can modify it and then paste. Probably, it may make sense to move it to an "advanced" or "danger" editing zone.

It's needed because when you export/import a note it's ID and a link change. Imaging 100 links to one note and you have to remove an "active" css that makes a banner stick on top of a text. Importing\exporting it as ENML will take a hell of a work for such a simple task.

I often encountered the same issue. For example, I like to record lectures and courses with my phone. Some of them could be even more than 400MB if course takes about 8 hours. I would like to keep some course recordings inside Evernote in order to listen it offline and add additional text notes.

Google Drive support is interesting but not very useful for now. I still don't know the convenient way of adding a google drive link to a note to a large audio file and then have the ability to listen to it.