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Jeff Bass

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Posts posted by Jeff Bass

  1. Keeping this thread updated. I was contacted by Evernote technical support to set up an appointment for them to use a screen viewer to watch me experience my slow typing problem. At the appointed time on Monday, March 15,  the tech support person captured a video of my Mac's computer screen as I tried to add an additional line to text notes (described above) that were 2,000 and 3,000 and 4,000 lines long. The delays described above were seen and noted by the tech support person, who is passing the example and screen video along to the software engineering folks.

    I will continue to keep this thread updated as I hear back from them.

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  2. I got an email reply from Evernote Support the day after I emailed my "error still occurs in v10.8.5" bug report update (my last post in this thread):


    Thanks for contacting Evernote support. I’m transferring this ticket to the previous support team that you worked with. Thanks for your patience as they review this ticket.

    Will keep updating this thread.

  3. I just tested typing at the end of my 2 test notes in Evernote Mac v10.8.5. The problem has not been fixed. I sent the following update to my support ticket email thread:



    I re-tested typing at the end of each of my test notes in Mac Evernote v10.8.5. The files still take a very long time to catch up to my typing of a new line at the bottom of the note:

    For the 5,000 line note, it took 6 minutes 30 seconds to catch up (This note shows in Note Info as: 383 KB - 65,115 words - 336,641 characters)
    For the 4,000 line note, it took 4 minutes 30 seconds to catch up (This note shows in Note Info as: 304 KB - 51,564 words - 266,303 characters)
    Evernote Mac 10.8.5 is still unusable for typing at the end of these notes. These are the same notes I already sent to you.

    I will post back here if I get a reply or other update. I am continuing to use Mac Evernote Legacy. It has no delay typing at the bottom of the same test notes. Evernote Legacy is working OK for "production use" for me, so I will continue to use it instead of 10.8.5 which is not usable at all.

  4. @Paul A., & others who may be following this: I heard back from Evernote support; it was just a short email saying they got my files and email and are adding it to my existing issue report : 


    Thanks for these details. I've added this information to the existing issue report. I will let you know once I have additional updates on the progress of this issue.


    I'll continue to post in this thread every time I hear from Evernote Technical Support.

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  5. @robinrobin, I'm not sure if the problem is individual character syncing or not. Evernote technical support replied to my most recent update quickly (within 1 business day). I responded back immediately as well. As you can see from my "cut and pasted" reply email below, the problem is related to the number of lines and the number of characters per line. Small files: no problem; 2,000 line file has a slight problem; 4,000 line file has an unusable 90 second delay; 5,000 line file takes a full 3 minutes to catch up. These are not large files. The problem is likely related to memory buffers and or caching. I'm a software developer, so I tried to be precise and helpful in my reply to them. This is a serious "you need to fix all broken windows" type of bug (reference "The Pragmatic Programmer, Tip # 5": Don’t Live with Broken Windows: Fix bad designs, wrong decisions, and poor code when you see them https://pragprog.com/tips/ ). My email reply to them included a link to a short 10 line Python program that generates multiple text notes that illustrate the problem. I also enclosed the 4,000 line note and the 5,000 line note, as they requested. These are notes that really break Evernote v10.7.




    I am enclosing 2 notes that that illustrate the problem. The files are .enex files, as requested. I am a software developer myself, so I wrote a 10 line Python program that generates notes that precisely demonstrate the problem. The 2 enclosed notes are 5,000 lines and 4,000 lines long. The 5,000 line note takes 3 minutes to catch up when typing a line at the bottom. The 4,000 line note takes 90 seconds to catch up when typing a line at the bottom. The problem is related to the number of lines: a 2,000 line note catches up to the typing, but the typed characters display in a manner that is very jerky and lagging. Smaller notes do not demonstrate the problem at all. These notes have no problems in Evernote Legacy. These notes are not very large; the 5,000 line note is just 400K bytes, which is smaller than a simple photo, for example.

    The 2 notes contain lines that are randomly 6 to 20 words long, the same as multiple notes that have exhibited this problem for me. These example notes contain randomly sampled words from the Gettysburg Address. In case it might help, here is a link to the short Python program (as a GitHub Gist) that generates these files of varying lengths: https://gist.github.com/jeffbass/4cde8fa8abf3b1dcb2d7c56391ee951e  
    Thanks for your help with this,


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  6. @PinkElephant, of course you are right. I am doing exactly that; I am using Evernote Legacy for longer notes. And I can definitely change my workflow to use Pages for longer stuff. But I don't feel I should have to. Evernote Mac v7.x did not have this problem. Evernote Legacy for Mac does not have this problem. Mac Pages does not have this problem. Evernote Mac alternatives like Bear notes, DevonThink and even iOS / Mac Notes do not have this problem. It is an egregious bug. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to continue to ask that it be fixed, even as I am using alternatives and work arounds. I am a paying Evernote "PREMIUM" customer and will keep this thread updated with progress on this bug until it is fixed.  I am feeling annoyed and frustrated by this. Yes, I know there are workarounds. But I have been a paying Evernote customer since 2008 and I have always recommended Evernote to others. I hope they fix this bug so that I can continue to do so.

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  7. @robinrobin, I did go offline and the typing is still very lagged and slow. It still takes 3-5 minutes to show new typing at the bottom of a 5,700 line text only note. (It is the same long note I reported my technical issue with; I keep testing with that same note). I'm glad you are getting good offline typing response. I am not. I just timed it both online and offline: both took over 4 minutes long for my typing to catch up. The time is variable every time I do the typing test. But it is always over 2 minutes to type a new line at the end of the note. Sometimes as much as 5 minutes. But it is the same whether I am online or offline in v10.7.6. It may be slightly faster when offline, but less than 20% difference.

  8. Update on my slow typing response tech support ticket with Evernote support. Evernote 10.7.6 for Mac has been released. I upgraded my 10.6.9 to 10.7.6. The slow typing problem is still there on long notes. It is very slightly faster, but still unusable (several MINUTES before typing at bottom of long note catches up to typing). I let the technical support staff who is handling my support ticket know in a reply email. I will update this post when I hear back from them.

    (I am tagging posters in this group so you will get pinged on this update: @hasman404, @Kitalooclef, @rdelgado, @DrumWise, @goandigo, @robinrobin, @Karin Clavel, @iAlfred34)

  9. @hasman404, I have been researching alternatives to Evernote because the flaws in the new Mac Evernote version are really severe. I am using Evernote Legacy for Mac for now and it is working well for me. But if the Evernote folks don't make "Evernote for Mac" usable, then I'm going to (sadly) start using something else. I am preparing a long post about "good alternatives to Evernote" and I will post it in a few days in its own thread. I'll link to that thread here. The short answer is that every alternative to Evernote has drawbacks compared to Evernote Legacy for Mac when it is combined with the Evernote ecosystem (Evernote Web clipper; Evernote across all devices; Evernote XML database on Mac readable by other programs; easy input from iPhone camera, Evernote search "seeing" text in pictures or PDF files, etc, etc.). Evernote was very close to ideal for me prior to this new Mac version. But Evernote 10 on Mac is unusable. So I have been actively researching alternatives since November 2020. I will post my research results in a few days.

    1. Here is a really good post in a productivity blog that compares many alternatives ranked by number of "Evernote features" that are present. It was the start for my own research: https://projectorius.org/evernote-alternatives/ 
    2. The biggest absolutely horrible deal killer for the new Evernote for Mac is the problem in this thread. I literally cannot type into longer notes. An astonishing bug. Absolutely astonishing. Can't type into a note that is longer than 1,000 lines? Really????
    3. Here is a list of flaws in the new Evernote for Windows in a Reddit post (most of these apply to the new Evernote Mac Client also): 
  10. @robinrobin, thanks for your insight and workaround suggestion. I am using Evernote Legacy for Mac until this is fixed. It's an OK workaround for me. You may want to file an official bug report. See below paragraph.

    @Karin Clavel, it may help Evernote technical support to prioritize this problem to a more urgent status if more of us report it officially. You can probably just give a very brief description and reference this forum topic by providing a link to it in your problem report. Here is the link to evernote bug reporting page. Click on the "contact us" link in the middle of the page. You will need to log in using your Evernote log in. You will need to select 3 pull down menu items before you can enter text: 1) select "Technical Issues"; 2) select "Notes"; 3) select "Report a Bug" (you will have to scroll down to this choice; it is at the bottom of a long list). Then you can enter text about the problem. I suggest you include a link to this issue page so they know that many of us are experiencing this problem.

    @iAlfred34, I agree. This has rendered Evernote Mac v10 'useless' for me, too. I am using Evernote Legacy until they get v10.x working. I have started looking for alternatives to Evernote in case they can't or won't fix v10. You may want to file an official bug report. See above paragraph.

  11. @DrumWise, yes, you can install an older version called Evernote Legacy for Mac. It can run alongside Evernote 10.6.9 on the same Mac (they use different local storage on the Mac, but they both update to the same Evernote notes servers).

    The link to the Evernote Help and Learning article about the Legacy versions for Mac and Windows is here.

    You can download Evernote Legacy for Mac by clicking on the green "Mac" link in the middle of the article. Evernote Legacy for Mac is working well for me for now.

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  12. @hasman404, Yes, they responded to the video. They said they "do not currently have an estimated time on when it will be addressed".

    Timeline: I opened my original support ticket January 25. Evernote support emailed me and asked for the video January 26. I created and sent the video January 26. Evernote support sent me an email saying they got the video and were referring the issue to technical support January 26. I got an email from technical support on January 27 that said they are doing further investigation, assessing the issue and prioritizing this in a future release, with no estimated time for addressing it. Here is the relevant paragraph from the January 27 email to me from technical support:


    Thanks for contacting Evernote Support and for reporting this issue. This issue has been reported  for further investigation. The product team will assess the issue and work on prioritizing this in a future release, but I do not currently have an estimated time on when it will be addressed.

    I will continue using Evernote Legacy on my Mac's until i hear back from them. Evernote Legacy for Mac is working fine for me. They gave me a ticket number and an email contact and I will check back via email in a week or so.

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  13. I was contacted by email by Evernote Support (within 1 day) and they asked me to do a QuickTime video of my screen as I experienced the typing slowness in a large text file. The large text file edited just fine in Evernote Legacy, allowing me to add lines at the end with no typing slowness. I closed Evernote Legacy and opened Evernote Mac v10.6.9. I opened the same note. I started the QuickTime screen capture video. I started typing 4 lines. After 3 characters appeared on the screen, none of my additional typing appeared. Then after about 5 minutes (yes...5 MINUTES) the text that I had typed appeared. I sent the link to the video in my reply to Evernote support, as requested. Will continue to update this topic as this support issue progresses.

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  14. I have submitted a support ticket for this problem (submitted today, 1/24/2021) and will update this topic when I hear a response. I have been experiencing this problem ever since Evernote v10 on Mac was released. I switched back to Evernote Legacy, because Evernote v10.x is not usable for me with this slow typing problem. About every week or 2, I open Evernote v10 on a different Mac, then update the EN v10 to the latest version, then duplicate the problem. It has consistently been there in every new version of Evernote v10 since v10.4. The newest version 10.6.9 is slightly faster in displaying characters as they are typed at the end of long notes than v10.4 was. But it is still way too slow (over 20 seconds to catch up to display newly typed characters on a 5,000 line text note) to be usable.

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  15. When typing new text at the bottom of a long text note (about 90,000 words; about 5,000 lines of text), the typing response is VERY VERY slow. When typing characters, nothing appears for 20-45 seconds, then it "catches up" and the text that was typed during the 20 seconds appears. Then when resuming typing, this happens repeatedly. It makes adding text to long text notes unusable. Shorter text notes don't seem to have this problem. I am not an unusually fast typist. I did not experience this problem with the old Evernote before v10.

    This problem does not occur in Evernote Legacy for Mac. I am using both Evernote 10 (specifically, v10.6.9 as of 1/24/2021) and Evernote Legacy on 2 different Macs. I can edit the long note in Evernote Legacy and type new text lines at the bottom just fine with normal typing response. Then when I open the note in Evernote 10.6.9, typing text lines at the bottom of the same note experiences 20-40 second delays for the typed text to appear. This is a very repeatable problem for multiple different notes that are over 5,000 lines long. The notes are text with no images or attachments.  (I have been using Evernote since 2008 and have 11,000 notes that total about 15GB in Evernote Legacy. I am not sure if my large number of notes or my large database size are part of the problem or not). About 5% of my notes are "long" text notes (over 1,000 lines). I don't want to have to break the notes into smaller notes, but when I did that as an experiment on one of the long notes, Evernote v10 was able to edit the shorter notes just fine.

    Problem occurs on 2 of my Macs: 1) MacOS Catalina 10.15.4 (MacBook Air with 4GB RAM & 512GB SSD) and 2) MacOS Big Sur 11.1 (MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM & 512GB SSD). 

    My Evernote version from "About Evernote" pulldown menu item:

    10.6.9-mac-ddl-public (2254)
    Editor: v116.1.14913
    Service: v1.26.7

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  16. I just wanted to update anyone who might be following this post with what I have discovered with offline access in 10.x on Mac since my previous posts.

    1. I downloaded a fresh copy of Mac 10.4.3 on another Mac which is running MacOS Catalina 10.15.4.
    2. I got a blank white notes screen, but let if run for a while (overnite). Then, when I quit Evernote and restarted it, my notes were visible, current with my Legacy Evenote version (running on a different Mac) and were available for editing.
    3. I turned WiFi off and was able to see my notes (with the same window message about being offline that @DTLow showed above. I could open notes and edit them OK. When I turned WiFi back on, the notes synced OK and the changes showed up on Evernote Legacy (running on a different Mac) a few minutes later.
    4. Mac EN version 10.4.3 continues to be very slow. Typing new text in long text notes lags by several seconds before my typing appears on the screen.
    5. Mac En version 10.4.3 is noticeably faster (typing, searching, syncing) than 10.3.7 was. But still very slow for typing into larger notes.
    6. I am opening a couple of support tickets to let the EN staff know about the blank white screens and very slow performance related to typing into larger notes and syncing a large (approx 15GB on Mac Legacy) EN database.
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  17. @gazumped, thanks, in v 10.3.7, I do have the option set and I can (thanks to earlier helpful posts in this thread) see the 10.3.7 database. The database is present and some of the files have very recent modification dates & times, so it is being updated, at least sometimes. But even with the 10.3.7 local database enabled and (seemingly) updating, I cannot see my main note list (all a bare white window) or start a new note (opens a bare white window). These blank windows have been present since I tried to use v 10.3.7 offline and they are not resolving.

    @lbramos, I have tried turning WiFi off and back on, and I have tried rebooting the Mac. I cannot get offline note viewing or offline note creation to work. They both bring up completely blank white windows that don't fill in after more than an hour of waiting. Note viewing and note creation did work fine for me in Mac 10.3.7 app when online, but typing has a big time lag in longer text notes as I noted in this thread: After trying to use v 10.3.7 offline, note viewing and note creation are now not working at all. 

    @PinkElephant, offline use that is reliable and fast is very important to me also. I have reverted to Evernote Legacy for my day to day work. It continues to be reliable and fast both online and offline. I still have been unable to use 10.3.7 offline at all. I have tried multiple times with multiple combinations of WiFi on/off, Mac Reboots, etc, etc. This make 10.3.7 unusable for real work for me. So I am using Evernote Legacy for my work and 10.3.7 for testing (on a separate Mac) to allow me to send actionable support tickets to Evernote staff. The worst thing is that 10.3.7 no longer works at all for me after having tried to use it offline. I am trying a fresh copy of Mac version 10.3.7 on a separate Mac.

    @DTLow, I am definitely opening a support ticket with logs, etc. I am taking a couple of days to carefully document some of the combinations of WiFi on / off, Mac Rebooting, etc. that I have been trying. Version 10.3.7 was working OK online until I tried to use it offline and it has not worked since, whether online or offline. I am watching the Mac Activity Monitor app; it stays busy whenever I open 10.3.7. One theory (unverified) I have is that it is taking a very long time for my local Mac 10.3.7 database to sync since I had opened it while offline. My next step to test that theory is to leave 10.3.7 open for 24 hours with the blank white notes screen open. As a longtime (since 2008) EN user, I have a large notes database of 15GB with 11,000 notes. One possibility is that the EN developers never tested the new Mac version with a database this large. And it may just need 48 hours to sync a large database. Don't know. Will report back in this thread.

    My conclusion is that the Mac 10.3.7 version is unusable and I will continue using Evernote Legacy for work purposes on my Mac. I will continue testing the Mac 10.3.7 version on a different Mac for a few days to get good observations (and log data) to send along with my support ticket. I am an experienced (30 years) Mac and Linux software developer and will be careful to send an actionable support ticket. This software should never have been shipped as production software. It is not production ready. At all. I will report back in this thread in a few days.

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  18. Thanks again to both of you @DTLow and @gazumped. I was able to download and set up Evernote Legacy.  My local Mac database is where it was supposed to be and it updated quickly. It was SOOOO nice to see the spinning "sync" button again. And to have the File--> Sync and the File--> Save menu choices again. I looked at my Evernote database folder on my Mac and I have 11,000 notes taking up 15GB. I really want my primary Evernote database to be on my Mac with only a Sync copy in the cloud. The new Evernote version is designed around the cloud database being the primary one (and the only complete one). It is not clear if the new Mac 10.3.7 version will even create or edit notes while the Mac is offline. I couldn't get it to. I'll keep using Evernote Legacy until I find an alternative program that keeps my notes and attachments in a complete database on my Mac. Having access to all my notes while not connected to the internet is very important to me. In fact, I'd say it is THE most important feature to me. I've been happy with it that way in Evernote since 2008...

    I've been looking at DEVONThink, but it lacks a number of Evernote features I have come to love. And it doesn't have a sync'd cloud database or web access, although it can sync some things to a simpler iOS version. But DEVONThink does keep the primary database on the Mac, which is what I want. I have very rarely used Evernote on the Web and won't miss it much.

    Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.


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  19. Thanks to both of you, @gazumped & @DTLow

    The menu options are different and there are fewer of them in Evernote 10.3.7 on Mac. I found the folder (thanks, @DTLow). It contains lots of subfolders and is clearly not intended for use by users.

    In an attempt to see what might change in those folders (without changing anything), I turned of my Mac WiFi and tried to use Evernote offline. When I started Evernote while the Mac was offline, the main screen came up completely blank (just a window frame with absolutely nothing in it). There was no way to "refresh" it. I tried to use the File-->New Note to create a new note. It brought up a completely blank window as well. I waited a long time. Still blank. When I turned WiFi back on, I restarted Evernote on the Mac. The main notes screen is blank. But 2 individual notes screens are open and editable. Evernote Web in my Chrome Browser is OK. I'll leave the Evernote Mac app open for an hour or two to see what happens (that was suggested elsewhere). I do have a lot of notes (11,000) and have been a Premium Evernote user since 2008. This buggy behavior of the Mac app is very troubling. I realize that I can use Evernote Web and Evernote iOS, but Evernote Mac (the native Mac version) is my main use and very important.

    Is it no longer possible to use Evernote on the Mac offline? Or is there some trick to getting it to start up and allow creation of a new note, view the notes list screen, etc.?

    Thanks in advance for any help,


  20. There have been previous posts about where Evernote Mac Version 7.x did it's local Mac data storage. What is the new Evernote Mac local data storage location? Has it changed?

    The old way of finding the storage location (holding the option key while selecting the Help pulldown from the Menu bar) does not exist in the New Mac 10.3.x version.

    Anyone know where the new location is?

  21. When I am typing at the end a longer note, my typing is faster than the software can display my typing. Performance in keeping up with typing / text entry is much slower in this new Mac version. I am not an especially fast typist; but the Evernote typing responsiveness in the new version is noticeably much slower than the old version. While I am typing, the characters I am typing do not appear until several seconds after I type them. If I pause in my typing, the app does catch up in a few seconds, but this is annoying to the point of "note typing not  being usable". This problem is intermittent but happens often. It definitely seems to be associated with text entry in larger notes rather than in smaller notes. I do NOT have lots of other apps or Windows open on my Mac when the problem occurs. In fact, when I tried running Evernote as the ONLY app open on my Mac, this problem recurred in the same way. Also, Evernote is the only Mac app that is experiencing this typing / performance slowdown. All my other Mac apps are performing at full speed. The old Evernote for Mac version did have this happen sometimes, but rarely. It happens every few lines of text entry in this version.

    Specific example: Today I experienced significant typing lag in a text only note where "info box" says  is "Size 557 KB - 84,682 words - 472,390 characters".

    I upgraded to the new Mac version yesterday. So far it is (otherwise) working OK and I generally like the improvements so far. But this typing lag in long notes is a deal killer for me.

    Version details copied / pasted from Evernote About box:

     v 10.3.6 build 2001 public
    Editor: v111.0.14414

    Service: v1.22.6
    © 2019 - 2020 Evernote Corporation. All rights reserved

    My Mac OS version details from "About this Mac" info box: macOS Catalina Version 10.15.7 (19H2). 

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