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tavor

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Posts posted by tavor

  1. 21 minutes ago, SK_123 said:

    Thank you for this info. 

    a small point of clarification. You mean, if i exported my account as .enex, and re-imported the same file again to EN, the notelinks wouldn't work? Then, what is the point of the export, then? 

    Correct. If you do that, you will lose ALL your note links. 

    Export still has value. It provides one means of backup (though somewhat lossy given loss of note links) and it also provides a means of note portability (again, somewhat lossy given loss of note links). For someone who doesn't use note links, this isn't an issue. For those who do use note links, there are workarounds. This is certainly suboptimal, but it is what it is, and I haven't seen any indication from EN that they are going to change this. And given the v10 debacle, improving note portability probably isn't high on EN's priority list (just my own speculation).

  2. 6 hours ago, SK_123 said:

    Even, if we exported our data and imported the date in another client, will the 'Note LInk' feature, which was designed for EN, work there? 

    A few points of clarification. Note links are not unique to Evernote. As for importing Evernote notes to other apps, yes, you will lose existing note links, but that's due to EN's enex format, which does not preserve note links. If you import enex files into Evernote itself, you will lose existing note links. There are workarounds for this, but the issue is the enex format, not a limitation of enex importers. There are export formats that preserve note links, e.g., Joplin's jex format.

  3. 1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

    EN does not have a data mining business as well. There are no hints that data in your account was ever shared (except by yourself) or used to target ads on you. This is even true for Basic accounts - normally you are the product, if you don’t pay. But not here.

    Everything else is pure speculation, or IMHO bad mouthing for whatever reason.

    To be clear, I never said EN is sharing user data with other parties. I have no evidence to suggest that they are. For sure, they are reading your data.

    1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

    It is another question whether to encrypt ones data in addition to the security measures of the account. If you decide to do it, there is no need to use EN, because the server based services (OCR, search etc.) will not work. For these cases, any cloud will do, combined with a vault that only allows access to the data on your own device.

    Server-based services will not work, but that doesn't mean there is no use for EN. After all, Evernote has offered Local Notebooks for many years, and still does in v6, and I find storing note data in a note app more convenient and much easier to search, access and edit than maintaining a folder full of notes myself. And that all happens without EN being able to read my notes.

    Similarly, there are a few note apps that do use zero knowledge encryption (e.g., Joplin), and that app offers many features that EN does (and some that EN does not), and manages to perform well as a note app without the devs behind the app or the cloud service that the data is stored on ever having the ability to read users' notes. So any suggestion that note apps require access to user data to function is false (not saying you are suggesting that, but certainly people could read your comment that way, IMHO).

    Note app users do have choices here. If they are willing to give up privacy over all* the notes they store in a note app, then EN v10 once it reaches approximate feature parity with v6 would be an great choice, and there are plenty of others as well. In exchange you get server-based services that may be of significant value. But for users who wish to maintain privacy of their notes, there are note app options, and you need not be relegated to writing notes in Notepad and dumping them in a folder.

    * I think once EN phases out v6, there will be no cross-platform note apps that offer local-only note options; except perhaps DevonThink and the paid version of OneNote? You would know more about that than I would.

  4. 2 minutes ago, silentquest said:

    Should I think of it in terms of what I would throw in the trash? If I wouldn't mind throwing a document or paper in the trash it can go into EN. If I have a document that I would shred first that shouldn't go into EN? Really calls into question the usefulness of the app. Why use it if only non important data can go in there? 

    That's really an individual choice. What you shred might be docs that others would just throw in their personal trash, while still others would throw in a public trash can. And what you throw in the trash might be docs some would shred. Everyone has their own comfort level around data privacy.

    Why do people use Google or Facebook - these companies provide free services because users are the product and their data and usage are aggressively data mined. Apparently billions of people are cool with that, at least with respect to the data they put into those services. So again, it really comes down to your comfort level.

    3 minutes ago, silentquest said:

    To the hacker question. I assume by your concern that our data is not encrypted at rest? so if someone did hack the system, they would have non encrypted access to our data?

    I'm guessing the data on EN's cloud (which is hosted by Google) is encrypted both in transit and at rest in the cloud (someone PLEASE correct me if I'm mistaken! I would be shocked if they didn't implement this level of security). The issue for some (in particular those who use Local Notebooks) is that EN holds the decryption key, so EN can *and does* decrypt your data. With respect to hacker risk, hackers almost never succeed in brute force decryption (so long as reasonably good encryption is used), what they do is find the decryption key and since EN stores the decryption keys for every user, that is what hackers would target.

    The attractiveness of zero knowledge encryption, which Evernote and many other note apps do NOT offer, is that *only* you can decrypt your notes because only you hold the decryption key.

    • Like 2
  5. 14 minutes ago, CalS said:

    A $70 hamburger?  ;)

    The steps EN has been taking seem consistent with the argument I've made that their focus is on reaccelerating growth, and worrying about monetization later.

    That's why the new dashboard isn't Premium-only; only some of the frills are reserved for Premium.

    So yes, from your perspective, it may seem like a $70 hamburger, but the fact is that Premium subs like yourself, who fall into the power user camp, have a high exit hurdle, and EN is well aware of that. Which is why you will continue to pay for that $70 hamburger - because $70 to avoid the headaches and lost time of finding a suitable replacement and actually moving not just a huge # of notes, but also your workflow, to another app, seems like a bargain! 

  6. 1 minute ago, Rabbit704 said:

    However, the pain is worth it as I now have all my notes in a non proprietary format (Markdown), never to be locked in again.

    While EN doesn't really lock you in, for sure there is value in having notes in a widely supported, readable format like markdown. After the v10 debacle, I'm also inclined to move everything to markdown and never move to an app that doesn't use markdown. Markdown is becoming the de facto universal travel visa in the note app space - it allows you to easily move anywhere, even if that anywhere isn't even a note app, but rather .md notes in folders synced over dropbox or nextcloud.

    • Like 1
  7. On 1/13/2021 at 6:38 PM, s2sailor said:

    This dashboard, for the most part is essentially another view with the addition of a built in scratch pad.  It loads in about the same time as other views as best as I can tell.  There have been requests for this and I suspect many will like it.  For my use, it doesn’t provide anything I need, but it is nice to see some new features added.  I’m puzzled that it has been added to basic.  I think it should have been left out and used as a differentiator for Premium.

    Agreed, this doesn't add much for those who are very familiar with how to take advantage of Evernote's flexibility. I don't think this is intended at power users. I believe it's intended to convert some of the 80% of non-daily users to daily use. As well as to bring in some new users.

    I think that angle may be why this was prioritized over bringing v10 to feature parity with v6 or the *long* list of highly requested features (that would largely benefit power users). We'll be able to see whether my thesis is correct over the next couple of months - do we get new features while feature parity remains outstanding and while years-long popular feature requests are ignored.

    • Like 1
  8. 21 hours ago, Rabbit704 said:

    I really cannot believe that Evernote are proud to advise that they are working on new features (mostly which weren't asked for) when so many long time paying customers are just waiting for previous critical features to be reinstated and for some level of acceptable performance and customer support to be reinstated (you know, like not having to wait 6+ weeks to be advised that as a 10+ year Premium user, the reason that I cannot access Evernote v10 for web is because I have more than 1000 notes.)

    Working on new features at a time like this is just another example of the utter contempt that Evernote have for its customers.

    It could be that some of those dropped features from v6 are never coming back (we know with high confidence that is the case with at least some features), while others are difficult to incorporate into v10 and will take more time, while still others may be deemed very fringe and may not be nixed, but on a far back backburner.

    2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

    Personally I don’t want to generalize. Somebody decided on strategy (probably 2-3 years ago), somebody had to oversee implementation and somebody decided they are ready to go, and authorized launch.

    At least the third decision was a very premature one. The first app to launch was EN iOS, and it was definitely not ready for any job with the first release. Unfortunately it hit devices that were mainly set to auto-update, which multiplied the effect.

    When I look at it from the outside, it seems that oversight of the software development project was not up to industry standards. If there were quality gates passed during development, the gatekeepers were probably on leave when the packages were moved along.

    You've been around long enough to know this is nothing new for Evernote. Their QA has been rubbish for many years. They never learned that lesson and it really bit them with this major release. And to your point, it goes beyond just the QA process - it's not like they weren't aware of some of the problems; we have posts on this forum and elsewhere from beta testers who communicated the bugs to EN, and yet the general release contained many of these bugs, so clearly a decision was made to press forward, consequences be damned (or perhaps they felt the consequences of delaying were even worse).

    • Like 2
  9. 1 hour ago, silentquest said:

    Wow! Reading this topic does not make me feel good about using EN. Are you guys really that concerned with EN security? I keep my taxes and other super sensitive (banking or SS#) data in an encrypted vault in 1Password and just know that's where it is. Should I be concerned with other data being in EN?

    If you only keep data in EN that you don't care if their computers are reading and you trust their security (despite the fact that much, much larger corporations have been breached, including recently a major cybersecurity firm), then no, you shouldn't be concerned. If you have data that you don't want anyone else to potentially be able to read, then that data should probably be kept elsewhere. I have lots of notes in synced notebooks in EN. But as I'm on EN v6, I also make use of Local Notebooks to keep other notes completely private (these never go to the cloud). Eventually v6  goes away and I'll have to move those notes elsewhere, likely a note app that uses zero knowledge encryption (meaning no one except me, not even the note app company, can decrypt the notes).

  10. 42 minutes ago, gazumped said:

    "Justifiably?"  When (except for iOS) you can install a complete fix in 20 minutes or less?

    That's more due to the way that App Stores Work,  but since Android is less secure than Apple,  sideloads are a possibility.  See https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/evernote-corporation/evernote/evernote-8-13-3-release/ -or-
    https://evernote.en.uptodown.com/android/download/2259282 for the historic APKs

    And knowing how mobile app stores work, Evernote shouldn't have released v10 before it was ready (or before making it very clear to users what they were in for), knowing full well that people who rely heavily on the mobile app could experience significant workflow disruptions.

    I know all about the android apk's because I've been providing those links in this forum. But neither you or I can say that an Evernote apk from a third party website if free of malicious software. The only party who can guarantee that is Evernote, and they aren't providing users with a v6 apk, nor are they explaining why they aren't doing so. Taking a risk on a third party app site for a note taking app is not acceptable for some users.

    But you are, of course, free to dismiss user complaints as non-justified, while you sit back in the comfort of v6.

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1
  11. 5 hours ago, gazumped said:

    Watching all this breast-beating about the new release being toxic is like watching a kid lie in 2 inches of water and panic about drowning.  Just get up guys - you'll be fine...a little damp maybe,  but generally fine...

    Seems that is your assessment anytime people justifiably complain about a new EN release breaking workflows.

    To each his own. I can empathize with people paying $70 per year and having an inferior, buggy release dropped in their laps and having their workflows disrupted. And as you well know, there is no rolling back on iOS and EN is not providing a link to a prior version on Android, so going back to Legacy and waiting it out is simply not possible for everyone.

    • Like 1
  12. 23 minutes ago, ripwit said:

    Just reading the conversations about "valuation" above.

    Perhaps EN and its investors are not really interested in the number of paying customers, but more interested in the customers' data and metadata.

    I have trusted EN with a lot of private information over the last 5-6 years. I have shared data with others. They have never promised real data security (and many/most cloud providers don't.)

    So I'm wondering if this isn't just another way to get valuation from free/cheap customers - especially if it involves being able to capitalize on the data they store.

    Tell me I'm being paranoid. Could never happen. Not like google or facebuck.

     

    All that note data would certainly be valuable to potential acquirers who are active data miners, such as Alphabet/Google.

    I use the Local Notebooks feature (pre-v10) keep private notes private.

    • Like 1
  13. 39 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

    I think a key miss by Evernote was maybe not realizing that anyone willing to spend ~$70 a year for a note app is very likely using it to the fullest with specialized workflows.  Releasing v10 when they did likely affected every premium user in some way, and many significantly.

    Exactly. Even the forum members who routinely defend EN at every turn are using . . . wait for . . . Legacy.

    • Like 2
  14. 1 hour ago, gazumped said:

    It would definitely have been nice if Evernote had done a 'yep - it was an error - go back to Legacy for a while as we fix this' type of thing... but then their lawyers probably said "and what about all those claims for refunds that will follow..."  which is probably what killed that thought.

    Perhaps. But ignoring the furor and not soothing concerns is going to leave Premium subs who are unhappy with v10 feeling quite salty - remember ~1/12 of them come up for renewal each month - are these people going to be motivated to pay for one of the most expensive note apps? From the posts I'm seeing here and at reddit (where the discontent far exceeds anything I've seen in the years I've been on this forum), I'd bet they are seeing the largest attrition of Premium subs they have ever seen.

    1 hour ago, CalS said:

    @tavor

    Not sure what EN's focus is at the moment other than remediating a dumbed down product in a standardized programming language.  Hard to fathom that this, as you put it, slow motion train wreck could be anywhere in the neighborhood of what they expected to achieve.  They've managed to miss the mark in quality and content, no mean feat.  Add lack of communications and you have the trifecta!

    Right, that lack of comms is going to give people whose renewals come up, some pause before forking over another $70.

    1 hour ago, DTLow said:

    I'm still confused on the "valuation"
    In terms of "growing the userbase", this is already accomplished (over 200 million users)

    I think that 200mm is cumulative signups. I'd be surprised if active weekly users is over 50mm or active daily users is over 20mm. Premium subs will be a very small fraction of active daily users.

    53 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

    I think you're right that valuation is very important, and I believe that they may have planned for and expected some short-term churn on Premium subscribers with the transition to a brand new software platform in v10. Where we (perhaps?) differ is that I believe Premium subscribers are extremely important, as valuation of freemium software like Evernote is based on paying subscribers and the conversion rate from free to paid.

    So, while they may have been willing to briefly tolerate some declining metrics related to paid subscribers towards the end of 2020 and perhaps very early 2021, the company is bound to be under big pressure to grow their paid subscriber base this year.

    I think where we differ is on timing. I don't think the focus will be on paying subs this year. In the future, for sure, but not this year. Again, I'm basing this on the behavior I'm seeing from EN.

    51 minutes ago, Vidalia said:

    Does EN disclose how many paid users it has got?

    Typically the conversion ratio is very low, usually fewer than 5 in every 100. So if EN has 200 million total users, paid users probably 2 million roughly. It is still a very large number though.

    But I'd still say, EN does not have any unique selling point as such. Behemoths like Google. Microsoft, Apple are offering notes for free and Onenote is a highly accomplished product. If you don't need to "edit" files frequently in mobile, Dropbox itself is a good proposition as you can "view" most common file types in Dropbox without any other apps.

    I think active daily users is less than 20mm, and paying users is maybe 1mm at best. Just a guess.

    Completely agree that EN has a market problem and where it is positioned in that market. @Wanderling Rebornposted a survey and he and I had a discussion around that starting with the following post:

     

    The most interesting thing about that survey is that only 20% of the people who responded (presumably all active EN users) were daily users (and I would guess that most of the Premium subscribers are daily users). When you have a daily use product that only 20% of your users use daily, you have a problem - you may need different products - one to really cater to your daily use userbase and another (or multiple others) to cater to your less frequent users. One product cannot possibly maximize value for both portions of your userbase, and by sticking to one product, it may be more difficult to differentiate yourself from the numerous competitors (a problem EN didn't have several years ago when they essentially defined the space), especially the free options you note from the OS giants (MS OneNote, Apple Notes, Google Keep) - I agree with you that for people for whom the "second brain" idea isn't really important, any of these free alternatives will probably be fine and even Dropbox may suffice just to have some notes and documents synced across devices, as you note.

  15. It's fascinating watching Evernote's response and lack thereof, to this v10 slow motion train wreck. We have seen many paying subscribers complaining about v10, including many who are threatening to leave. The total lack of response on this forum or on reddit from EN (even if it's to encourage Premium subs to roll back to Legacy) is interesting. 

    It suggests to me that the argument I made earlier (linked below) that EN (and their VC backers) don't really care about paying subs (right now) because their focus is on growing the userbase (because that's what will drive valuation) is essentially correct. EN's behavior certainly seems to comport with my thesis, does it not? Would love to hear from those who truly believe that EN's focus is on Premium subs - what is your evidence for this belief?

     

    • Like 3
  16. 1 hour ago, BummedJim said:

    Please, Evernote, either add local notebooks back into the main app for the many of us who NEED this capability, and/or commit to ongoing support for what you're now calling the "Legacy" version and making clear you do not intend to support (as here: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314: "no future updates", "only temporarily available", "for a limited time"). Can you really not know what you're killing off?

    I'd say the odds of EN incorporating Local Notebooks into v10 are zero. For the past few years, they have deemphasized Local Notebooks (I'd bet many users who started using EN within the last few years don't even know the feature exists - when they hear "local notebooks", they're thinking offline notes), so this has been a long time coming.

    The odds of maintaining v6 in perpetuity are also zero. You don't switch to a new platform to unify the codebase only to maintain an older codebase that differs dramatically for each OS. 

    If you need to keep certain notes/notebooks confidential, you should start planning out what you will do when v6 is abandoned. You don't need to actually do anything with your notes yet, as v6 should be around for at least a few months (my guess is closer to 6 mo, but that's just one user's speculation), but you should have a plan.

    • Like 1
  17. On 1/7/2021 at 5:47 AM, isthisme said:

    3) Not written in Electron (like Evernote V10)

    1 and 3, are because the sort of developers who use Electron (like Evernote V10), don't care for stability, or point releases. They want you on the "latest beta version" at all times, and expect to auto-update you to it. They don't care if your desktop experience limited by the limitations of web pages, and they will pull features whenever they feel like it. It's just easier for them to write a single app that works on desktop + mobile + web browser if they do this. Electron is a way of life to those people, the lowest common denominator where your app is a local webpage.

    I don't think Electron is the problem. EN's rollout of v10 was a disaster, but there are well received Electron apps, such as Visual Studio Code. I'm using Joplin (also Electron as you note) and like it. For cross platform note apps, unless you are content to stay in Apple's walled garden, you will be hard pressed to avoid Electron. EN moved to Electron because they could see the writing on the wall. Maintaining disparate codebases for each platform while your competitors are using a unified codebase is a losing strategy.

    I think the root of the problem is EN's approach to QA of their software. This has been an issue for many years, and their fast and loose approach really bit them with v10 and their move to Electron.

    • Like 4
  18. On 1/10/2021 at 12:03 PM, Piotas said:

    In Joplin automatic attachement download is one thing, another is that it currently requires COMPLETE sync after new install or after moving your sync to different provider, and by COMPLETE I mean FULL sync, that after any interrupt restarts from very beginning. It may be unnoticeable for few notes, but with few thousands notes means you have to put your phone on charger, disable screen-off and wait a long time; the slower sync medium you choose - the longer.  Dropbox is fast, but WebDAV or NextCloud may be pretty slow. Any interrupt of initial sync (like answering a phone call) mean the sync is restarted from 0. This ensures that there are no conflicts but takes A LOT of time.

    Yeah, new device or new server syncs take a long time and are a hassle for mobile devices. The devs are aware, and are working on a Joplin server (available in pre-release form) that eliminates a lot of the overhead that Webdav uses. Probably not appropriate to post here, but a thread in the Joplin forum shows huge speed improvements in sync speed by eliminating the webdav overhead.

    I moved to Drobox from Nextcloud for the sync speed, and am curious to try the Joplin server once they release and package in easy to deploy form for non-techies.

    The plugin development pace is great (and has features EN does not - outline view, one-click backlink search and creation, note tabs (I believe EN Mac has tabs, but EN Windows never got this)), so I'm using Joplin for new notes while still having a foot in EN for my old notes and new web clips where Joplin's clipper doesn't get me the desired clip - EN's clipper is probably still best in class.

    • Like 1
  19. On 1/7/2021 at 7:47 AM, Piotas said:

    Joplin is very good for text notes, not so useful if you dump many / big attachements info your workflow - BECAUSE current state of Joplin mobile app replicates ALL notes, there is not partial replication implemented (yet).

    Tools > Options > Synchronization > Advanced Settings - change attachment download behavior to Manual. Only the attachments you select for download get downloaded to your mobile device.

    • Like 1
  20. 2 hours ago, Rainer Winkler said:

    Joplin is not able to handle multiple windows with notes properly, ...

    You may already be familiar with these options using Joplin, but in case you're not:

    1. There is a plugin for tabs, so you can have multiple notes open as tabs in the Joplin app (a feature that EN Windows never had).

    2. To open multiple notes in windows separate from the Joplin app window (as you can do in EN), you have to use an external editor, which you can specify in Options. I use Typora for this, but you can point the app to any editor, and when click the toggle external editor button, the note launches in external editor. Repeat for other notes you want in separate windows.

    • Like 1
  21. 1 hour ago, LucaBen said:

    - Anchors within notes: this is a feature that I wish will be available one day. I don't want to have a million notes so I rather have a few of them (still more than 300 actually!), but many of them have separate sections, with dividers and headers to easily recognise them. I would like to create anchors so I can easily jump to a specific section within the note. I'd be fine with a dropdown, even if that would mean two clicks. Still easier than scrolling down and having to recognise where the desired section is.

    Anchors, outline mode, internal note links. This category of features has been highly requested for many years. Amazing that at the end of 2020, EN still does not have it.

    It's one of the key reasons I'm experimenting with Joplin (along with no local notebooks and no zero knowledge encryption). The built-in editor has a TOC function that checks for markdown headers in the note and builds a TOC at the top of the note, which gets updated as headers are added or deleted. A convenient way to navigate long notes. Another option is using an external editor like Typora, which has outline view - there's a left pane that shows all your headers in an outline format, very much like the TOC in Joplin's native editor, except the outline view, when enabled, is always onscreen. So you can click around to your different headers, while in the native editor, you have to get back to the top of the screen (CTRL+Home or CMD+Home) to access TOC.

    • Like 3
  22. 1 hour ago, gazumped said:

    Personally: on including new features in Evernote - why reinvent wheels?

    Prior to Evernote, we had MS Word and Notepad and search. Why reinvent the wheel and create Evernote?

    1 hour ago, gazumped said:

    And why add the additional complexity of another set of menus? 

    Using a separate editor for a particular set of notes stored in Evernote is less complex than having a menu option in EN for outlines?

    1 hour ago, gazumped said:

    I get that collapse is quite popular (626 votes so far) but up to this year Evernote didn't have the tools to do this - they've been around for 12+ years and some of the base code got written before either text collapse or mind mapping was a thing. 

    MS Word didn't have outlines 12 years ago?

    • Like 1
  23. 5 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

    The problem is the current pricing. It pretty much holds them hostage and severely limits what they can do as a company.

    When you look at the prices that their competition charges, the current Premium plan is too high. Long term users will pay it to keep thousands of notes and workflow they came to depend on over the years, but most people who are not already deeply invested into the service will just shrug and move on. To attract new users, they must make a compelling value proposition - but this is a Catch-22. If it’s too attractive, the current paying users may switch over to the new cheaper plan, and they lose the revenue they came to depend on, with no guarantees of more paying customers. If it’s not attractive enough, they’re back to square one, with slow attrition of old paid customers and no new ones. I don’t have a solution for this.

    Current Premium users are willing to pay $8/mo over current Basic. Per my plan, EN takes current Basic and removes device limit and maybe 1 more feature (along with development focus on daily users, not on socks and mugs and bags or on new colors), then charge ~2/mo for it. They're not going to lose many Premium members to paid Basic given they're currently paying $8/mo over free current Basic.

    What they stand to gain is the large number of daily users who are currently Basic users upgrading to new Basic. Per my earlier post, they can offer free trial Basic for 6mo or 1yr, and if they start the clock at the same time for existing users, they can't really cry foul because they'll have plenty of advance notice.

    And for new users who are prospective daily users, 6mo or 1yr trial is long enough for them to make a decision. And it's longer than many of the competitors are offering.

    For the 80% of non-daily users and prospective non-daily users, these people generally aren't paying under the existing scheme and won't pay under my proposed scheme. They need a different product - maybe multiple products, built off the same core Evernote product with extensions that support the uses of the different types of non-daily users. E.g., if someone uses EN just for recipes, rework the UI to customize the note experience into a digital recipe book experience - free trial and $6/yr after that. Similar for other categories of non-daily users.

    There is no future for a be everything to everyone in one note app anymore, like there was years ago. Too much competition, and they're busy carving out sections of the note app userbase. Look at how Obsidian and Roam are picking off the research segment. Evernote could have built this in years ago, but they were so busy with growing userbase, and what did they get for it? Many millions of very low intensity note takers who are never going to pay for the app as it currently exists; again ~80% are non-daily users for a product that is designed for daily use.

  24. 4 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

    However, this would not fix the pricing predicament that they put themselves in.  They are charging premium prices compared to the rest of competitors, yet they are not seen as a premium product, or even a top suggested product. On the other hand, they have a fairly sizable core group of dedicated legacy users who are now, I suspect, the main revenue source. They can’t attract new users without reimagining the service and dropping prices, and they can’t drastically revamp the service and drop prices without both pissing off the core users and losing revenue. I think you are right, it’s almost like they need to split into two separate products.

    Right, the bulk of the revenues likely comes from the ~20% of users who are daily users. The group they have ignored for years. So many highly requested features have languished in limbo, some for 8, 9, 10 years - some are almost as old as Evernote itself. It was one thing to ignore these users' requests back in the first 5-7 years of EN's existence, as there was little in the way of serious competition. Back then when people were contemplating leaving, there was OneNote (with all the drawbacks it had back then) and DevonThink for those content to stay in Apple's walled garden, and that was about it.

    Different game today with so many competitors. They cannot afford to continue to ignore their daily users, at least not while they are charging one of the highest prices in the note app market. Now that the product is Electron-ized, we'll see where they focus their attention - is it to build deeper interactions with their daily users, or try to grow the userbase by bringing in people who've tried the product and left or people new to note apps. Or as our last couple of posts have suggested - maybe split their offerings - a more feature-rich but more complex app for daily users, and a lighter, simpler product for casual note takers - i.e., the 80% who aren't daily users.

    A point on daily users - there are many daily users who aren't on Premium; I'd guess the majority of daily users are on Basic. I think EN can convert a good chunk of these people with (1) a renewed focus on building useful features, and unlike the article's notion, EN knows exactly where to start - the miles long list of highly requested features, and (2) a paid Basic or Plus (whatever you want to call it, but I'm thinking something like Basic Legacy with no device limits and maybe 1 or 2 other features) for ~$25/year.

  25. 26 minutes ago, dcon said:

    Except for one very important fact. When you import an enex back into Evernote, it is created as a new note. So that old GUID is basically useless. Ok, you could keep a complete history of every GUID a note has had. But now when you import that, do you want to link to the old (possibly existing note)? Or to the note that's in the enex that you're going to import in a couple minutes? Clairvoyance is hard!

    And, no, importing a note back in with the same idea would be a very bad idea. What happens if that old note exists? What happens if you're offline and that note does not exist locally but does exist on the server?

    As you can see, it's not a simple issue.

    (BTW: Note GUIDs are assigned by the server - never by the local app - even when you're offline.)

    And yet Joplin with a tiny fraction of EN's budget and development resources, preserves note links in its export format.  🤔

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