JKS258

I've been saying the same thing to all developers on all computer platforms since the very first IBM PC came out (which I bought), which is that you can ADD anything you like if you "think" you're improving the program, but NEVER, EVER take anything away. Why? Due to the individual idiosyncrasies of millions of users. Just because the developers and powers that be decide a features is not important, does NOT mean there aren't millions of users that think it is, and furthermore have designed their workflow around it (in some cases). Evernotes claim that notes "automatically sync" is simply not correct! That may be what it's SUPPOSED to do, and it may IN TIME, but if I need to work with a note RIGHT NOW that was scanned or otherwise captured, I don't want to wait on Evernote to decide when I want to see it. I want to see it when I WANT to see it, which may be an unreasonable request if I were asking for something NEW, but I'm only asked for what was ALREADY THERE to be left alone! For the billionth time in 25+ years, developers, PLEASE STOP FIXING THINGS THAT AREN'T BROKEN! Trust me, EverNote has got PLENTY of stuff that IS broken (like snail's pace speed and constant crashes (hourly)), so work on THOSE things and stop trying to "HELP" users that are happily using what USED to be there. Come on, this is basic, common sense. Please stop trying to complicate things just for the sake of change. Thank you....

First @pinkelephant, you seem to have deemed yourself the Forum Style Editor since you seem to like commenting on the style or someone else's writing, or the length of what they wrote, or how how you would have written it differently. You're free to write is whatever style is comfortable to you, and so is everyone else as long as they don't break whatever the forum rules say about language. I don't think I've EVER commented on the length of someone else's post since If I'm not interested in what they have to say, or they're taking to long to say it, I just skip it. Therefore, and no offense, but it seems rather petty for you to be the community watch dog on the length of the posts of others, don't you think? You aren't required to read what I write or what anyone writes, but if your problem is just with how I express myself, if you see my name just skip past it. It's very easy to do; you can use the vertical scroll bar or the down arrow key. If you get your jollies on criticizing others, please remove me from your list of those you feel the need to criticize, since your comments aren't going to change one thing about how I write or express myself. If there's a forum policy that restricts word count, please let me know where it is and I'll be happy to work within that count. Otherwise, there's a great Chinese proverb that says, "A gift is only a gift if you accept it." So thank you for thinking of me, but I respectfully chose not to accept your "gift." This is at least the second time you've accused me of "venting," when I'm simply complaining, with just cause, about some VERY legitimate concerns about Evernote that have been going on since the day Version 10.x was released. And by the way, these complaints are being posted by at least 100s of others, most of which are as outspoken or more so than I am, because these problems have been going on way too long and people are frustrated. Therefore they're going to first just voice concerns or ask questions, but again after a year with ZERO improvement, the language tends to get stronger since Evernote IS monitoring every word of this site as stated by the Staff member who was nice enough to at LEAST say we were being heard. The last time you accused me of venting you told me that this was a "members only forum" and Evernote did NOT read it and I was wasting my time. Apparently you were wrong. Should I jump you for being wrong and publicly criticize you? For me that would be a no, since I criticize ISSUES not people. Do you "police" the others that are so outspoken about their frustration as well? It seems like you should if you're going to police everything I write. Maybe you just don't know what venting is? If I was GOING to vent, rest assured you wouldn't have to wonder if I was or not. As for the issue at hand, I'd rather sit on a "dead branch" that WORKS, that a "growing branch" that burns up HOURS of my day, every single day. Evernote, as the company hoped it would be, is the hub of my entire information system. So most of my day as a consultant and researcher is spent in Evernote. Having to keep the web version open in order to do things they desktop version will not is a HUGE waste of time and computing resources. This is NOT a small problem, which you would know if you read the other posts. I could make a list of at least 50 things that Evernote is doing or not doing that cause me to have to stop what I'm doing to find a workaround. So I think some "venting" as you call it, or FIRM communication about how these ongoing, FACTUAL and GROWING issues with Evernote affecting my business are well-warranted, and some of both the problems and especially the way they affect the end-user can't be stated in one or two sentences. Using your preferred method of sending a message, I suppose it would be something like, "Evernote is broken, please fix it." A message TOO brief serves no one and DEFINITELY doesn't get anyone's attention without some energy behind it. Last, if I SAW some "growing" on this branch you speak of I might be more patient, but the growth all seems to be DOWNWARD, which each new release having more problems than the previous one. I'm also sure Evernote will notify their users when the legacy versions will no longer sync with their servers, but they'd be fools to do that until they FIX what is currently a boat anchor. And of course it not only affects my desktop version, but it has KILLED my Mobile version since there's no legacy version for that and the speed at which Evernote runs on a new Android phone is like watching grass grow. I've had to start using Google KEEP to gain quick access to important information I HAVE in Evernote, but anyone waiting on me to pull it up may as well have lunch while they wait. So thank you again for your attempt at being helpful, but the net affect of your comment was nothing but taking the opportunity to criticize someone for no reason other than you could. How about I'll sacrifice myself and happily ask you to NOT help me, even if you see the need to. That's a chance I'm comfortable taking and it will save you the effort. Whoops, guess what? Lots of reading to do again. Give that scrolling past my comments a try and see if that works better for you. I think you'll like it. Have a nice evening...

That's great to know @DTLow, thanks. Anything's better than what we've got.

Thank you for at least acknowledging the frustration of the ENTIRE EVERNOTE COMMUNITY. I can't IMAGINE that there are "some" people that aren't having the same issues we all are. All version of version 10 SIMPLY. DO.NO.WORK! I've used Evernote as a Pro User since 2009. I LOVED it until EN "attempted" to "make it better." Instead, they don't just have a few kinks to work out; as many others have said it's now completely unusable. Also, another user posted there were so many problems he could list them all, but DID attempt to list many. I not only have the same ones he has, but another list just as big as his. EN needs to FIRE everyone on the programming team since they clearly don't know how to make something better without killing it. With the HUGE number of users you have, it seems to me you stand to lose a HUGE amount of money when we ALL change to something else. If EN were MY company (and as a serial entrepreneur, I KNOW how to run a business), I would use EVERY resource available to me, and even LOSE money to create a FUNCTIONAL FIX to this MASSIVE problem. It appears the EN is just putting Band-Aids (that also don't work) on each problem that comes up vs. just accepting Version 10 is a TOTAL FAILURE, paying whatever necessary to hire programmers that know what they're doing and get this problem fixed once and for all. When I went to downgrade before I lost my MIND, there are all sorts of disclaimers that downgrading was just temporary and would the ability to downgrade would soon be removed once you had the kinds worked out. Based on that criteria and the rate at which EN is trying to work out the "kinks," the downgrade option should be there forever. Also, by downgrading to 6.x, how do we know the desktop files will sync with the newer version of the web app? I read we can't downgrade the Android App (though there's a APK file stored out there somewhere), so does version 6.x sync with the Android version as well? I've been a computer consultant for businesses for 30+ years and have worked with virtually every software program out there since the DOS 1.0 days, be it industry specific proprietary programs, commercial, consumer, or mobile. I've seen it all and done it all, and yes I've seen plenty of publisher problems like Evernote, but in all of those years, across hundreds of programs (that also include hardware specific programs), I've NEVER seen a program go from the greatest thing since sliced bread to a BRICK so quickly! And worse, the 1000s of pleas for help have been virtually ignored. I finally, knowing I was wasting my time, submitted a support ticket at least two weeks ago, and as a Premium user I'm supposed to get support, but so far I haven't received a single message back from Evernote. This is simply unforgivable. Again, EN HAS the money, or SHOULD have with 250 million users I think it is, and if they'd like to keep their machine that manufactures money for them from 250 million users, they should pull out ALL STOPS to fix the ENDLESS problems or their user base is going to drop like a rock (to employees only, just so they can keep their jobs!) and their income is going to drop below the light bill at your corporate office. I WISH I were exaggerating the HUGE number of problems I've been struggling with, along with 10s of thousands of others, but I'm not. Thanks to Evernote's marketing back in 2009 forward, once it proved to be everything it said it was, I bought a ScanSnap scanner and over a period of YEARS slowly scanned every single piece of paper I had at my office and home to where I'm COMPLETELY paperless now. That's good... except it leaves me in a VERY vulnerable place having the records of 10 businesses and a family of 5 ALL buried in Evernote, including the histories of each entity, much of which is priceless in terms of having valuable records. I've got my ENTIRE portfolio of nationally recognized, award winning projects in EN, which I'm working to make into a biography, but not if EN continues to tank! Overall, I have over 22,000 notes, over 4400 tags and 300+ notebooks in a VERY idiosyncratic workflow structure and to risk losing it would be catastrophic! So for the sake of the owners, employees and vendors of EN and for the sake of 250 million people and companies that bought into your sale pitch and converted EVERYTHING to EN, PLEASE do something, and do it sooner than later or I TOO, like MANY others will have to figure out how to migrate to something more reliable (like granite tablets and a chisel!). As I practiced in my consulting business, and preached every time I talk to a tech company, you HAVE to understand that each user has their own, customized if not HIGHLY customized way of using any organizational product. To completely change the way that workflow has to operate is to KILL someone's time in the VERY least. I can't tell you how many 100s (maybe 1000s over the years) of hours I've spent trying to "fix" something Evernote the company broke. The strategy I live and die by when it comes to upgrading anything is "Do whatever you like like that some group of individuals at EN "think" will make the product better, but NEVER, NOT EVER should you take away ANY functionality of the product that would mean the customer (you know, the ones that pay EN?) would have to completely rework their workflow." Last, since I HOPE I have an ear that might could get this message back to someone that the power to do something about this cluster-F...iasco, the BIGGEST risk you have is actually not directly the product, but the LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN THE COMPANY, where even if they get this problem fixed, how does the customer know this won't happen again? If they think it may, and unless there are some MAJOR changes in the management structure that made the decision that led us to where we are, then I'd say the chances are excellent. I'm not pulling any triggers yet, as long as downgrading doesn't lose anything I currently have (that was clipped or saved into EN 10.x, but I will DEFINITELY be keeping my ears and eyes open for any alternatives on the horizon just in case this is never resolved. It's been a year now since 10.x was released and it's STILL a problem. If I had 250 million customers making LOTS of people millionaires through Evernote you better BELEIVE I would have had this fixed a LONG time ago. Thank you for reading this (assuming you did), and I hope you'll take my words seriously since the reflect the same words written my countless others. It's time to FIX OR GET OFF THE POT. Respectfully, A "Current" Premium user since 2009

@agsteele Thank you so much for the clarification and I clearly misunderstood that it was simply a user-to-user forum. In my distant memory, since I virtually NEVER contact tech support or even participate with forums since it's often faster to figure things out for myself, but in this case I couldn't, it "seems" like many years ago Evernote did participate in this forum. Surely they at least monitor it for everyone's sake even now. I know it's hard to tell reading text on a page, but I wouldn't say I was "venting" per se, which I equate with anger, which I'm certainly not. After all of my years in this business, which (along with surviving raising 3 children!) has TAUGHT me to have more patience. If I got upset every time software companies do what Evernote is doing, I'd be a basket case by now! I'm certainly frustrated that Evernote (and many others) don't understand the simple concepts I outlined before regarding making drastic changes to software people have often been using for 10 years or more like I have Evernote, without considering human nature, which is that once people get their habits and workflows in place and tweaked for maximum efficiency, they don't want them changed, no matter whether the programmers think they've found a better way, because it takes SO long, especially with a program as broad as Evernote, to get it setup and running fairly efficiently (likely a year or more in my case). I've said this for 30 years or more that if software companies can ADD any features they want as long as they don't take ANY of them away. If they could get that, then I suspect they'd have MUCH happier customers. Either way, HUGE apologies to @PinkElephant for assuming he/she represented Evernote in some way, and huge thanks to you for clarifying that this forum is user-to-user only so I won't make that mistake again. Though I suspect many tickets have been issued on the "UPDATED DATE" issue, I very well may add my name to the pot, so thank you for that suggestion as well. Have a good day. All the best...

@PinkElephant Thank you for replying at all, but if you didn't read the entire post then you missed some important information, not just in my opinion, but in the opinion of the 100s if not 1000s of clients as long as I've been doing tech work. To ignore my comments that represent these many 100s of customers is to ignore the NEEDS of the customers, which is what customer service is all about, yes? Aside from my specific technical issue, the core message is that programmers or anyone doing technical work cannot do it from their own standpoint, since naturally they understand it; they have to program around the needs of the customers, who, as you know, are the people that pay you and keep you in business. To suggest that I downgrade to an older version seems to basically be dodging my original question and, as you said, will deny a paying Premium User from getting the benefits of any new features that ARE beneficial, and many are. That said, no matter how good these new features may be they are displaced by the negative aspects of you taking AWAY a feature that was used by no telling how many 1000s of customers, in my case and I suspect countless others as well, THROUGHOUT the day, leaving your customers' net satisfaction with your new software at ZERO at best, less than zero in the worst case. *** The main issue at hand right now, with many others that I've been able to work around for now, is the inability to backdate the "UPDATED DATE." As I mentioned in the post above you didn't read, ONE of the things I use the "UPDATED DATE" for is to simulate "pinning" posts at the top of the total notes list, that are sorted in reverse chronological order, by changing the "UPDATE DATE" to a YEAR (only, leaving the month and day as they were, and will be again when I change the year back) around 3 years ahead, which forces them to the top so they won't get forgotten to the degree they're critically important. However, now that we can't CHANGE the "UPDATED DATE," once I've dealt with the note that's semi-pinned at the top by editing it as it needs to be, it will NEVER leave the position it's in, PERMANENTLY stuck at the top of my overall notes list, which not only defeats the purpose of part of the workflow I created, but takes up space at the top that's reserved for high-priority items. This is a MAJOR problem for me and completely disrupts part of my workflow. Though the backdating issue is a problem in COUNTLESS ways throughout Evernote, for others and myself that like keeping things in relatively accurate reverse chronological order. I don't know about you, but I've read MANY articles and watched MANY videos over the years of the various ways that people organize their Notebooks and Tags, and it appears that almost ALL Evernote users have their own idiosyncratic way of organizing Evernote to suit their workflow. In addition, also through reading about others that may have tips and tricks to make Evernote more efficient, it appears that EVERY Evernote user's setup of Evernote is in a constant state of reorganization as they add more data or find better ways to do things. In my case I do SOMETHING to Evernote virtually everyday to change or edit the basic structure. TODAY, in trying to consolidate Notebooks and use Tags more for smaller delineation than Notebooks were designed to do, I MOVED an entire section of Notebooks with Sub-Notebooks to another location. In doing so it changed the "UPDATED DATE" of HUNDREDS of Notes within the Notebooks and Tags. Now I have HUNDREDS of Notes from as far back as 10 YEARS ago sorted ABOVE Notes that I created yesterday. This created an even bigger issue since I have no way to put those Notebooks back, nor do I want to, AND I can't change the "UPDATE DATE" on any of the notes. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. Someone replied to one of the first posts complaining about this deleted feature that "we don't know exactly what or when Legacy features will return to v10, but the general plan is that they all should come back as soon as possible." If ASAP means in a week or two fine. If ASAP means several months, not fine. Can you either give me a gross guess at how long this might take and more importantly, if I've explained how critical this is to ANY ONE of your customers' workflow and preferred setup, can at least this ONE feature be fixed with the next upgrade. I'm sorry if I seem impatient, but Evernote has GOT to think about the changes they make and how this will affect their CUSTOMERS before 1) changing or deleting a feature, or 2) telling a customer, like myself, that's had their database completely reorganized (in a bad way) due to a feature being DELETED, that "we don't know exactly what or when Legacy features will return to v10," when most of the features shouldn't be taken out to start with. Remember, ADD anything you like, but NEVER, EVER delete a feature unless you have some way to track how many of your 225 MILLION users are using it and if no one or only a few are, then not so bad. But if you have 1000s or millions that are using a feature literally EVERY DAY, when you delete it, you're crippling that number, however big it may be, from being able to operate their businesses quickly and efficiently. Ever since I upgraded to Version 10 (and yes I know I can downgrade, but that's no picnic either!) I've spend COUNTLESS hours trying to find out how to do things I used to do blindfolded, barely having to look at the keyboard. I'm not in business to help Evernote program their software, or tell them how to treat their customers. But if they can't get some of these MAJOR issues resolved quickly, in order of priority, I may, reluctantly, since I've been a virtual EVANGELIST for Evernote since the company began, have to start looking for something more reliable. Thank you in advance for anything you can do to expedite the "UPDATE DATE" editing issue. Regards...

I've been a computer consultant for businesses for 30 years and for the life of me I don't understand why programmers or whomever makes the decisions on what features to add or DELETE don't consider what the CUSTOMERS want; you know, those people that PAY you for your product (until it's no longer useful)? I've used Evernote almost since it came out in 2008 and like any software there are frustrating things I wish were different OUT OF THE BOX. (#1 being it's speed in pulling up notes on a PC, and it LOCKING UP EVERY SINGLE TIME I DO A SEARCH of my notes... for YEARS. I either wait 5 minutes until it unfreezes or about 50% of the time it NEVER unfreezes, so I have for force shut down the program and bring it back up... annoying and time consuming. Those things aggravate me to no END, but I deal with them since calling tech support makes me want to slit my wrists! However, the FAR BIGGER issue is that since [most] of us are human beings, we are driven by HABITS, so once we have a software for a little while, we establish a workflow that works for us, which often takes a year or more to establish (my Evernote database is in perpetual state of changes and tweaks, mostly with the Notebook and Tag names and their hierarchy, as the database has gotten huge (22,000 notes). However, the tweak I make don't disable my ability to zip in and out of notes, and add or clip notes at a rapid rate. But when the developers or decision makers DELETE A FUNCTION that's part of that workflow, it COMPLETELY disrupts our productivity. As an entrepreneur with too much to do as it is, the LAST thing I need to do is search for how to do something I've been doing for YEARS or in some cases over a DECADE, only to find that there IS no "how to" because the function has been DELETED! I've had a mantra of sorts I've used for most of my career regarding the functionality of anything, and that is for developers (or manufacturers) to "ADD anything you'd like to if you think it will enhance your product, which includes the interface, but NEVER, NOT EVER should you TAKE AWAY ANYTHING." If Evernote thinks the new way is better, that's fine, but it's THEIR opinion, while the CUSTOMER may have a different opinion and likes the old way better, and if so, LET THEM KEEP IT! Microsoft does the same thing, in fact most software and App companies do, especially the biggest ones with too many cooks in the kitchen (the smaller companies remain close enough to the customer to KNOW what they want). Microsoft had virtually the same Toolbar for MS Office for maybe 15 years, with MS Office 2003 being the last to use the original toolbar. I use Excel DAILY and though I TRIED using the new toolbar that was forced on what are now their subscribers (another beef for another day!), but I literally could not use Excel, either at all, or it was like learning how to use it all over again, and when I FINALLY found out how to find the function I wanted, unless I used it everyday, I'd forget where to find it next time! It was SUCH a massive problem for Microsoft that they [shamefully] made users PAY for a fix that would reinstate the OLD toolbar with the NEW software. Every single one of my clients that were dependent on MSOffice daily bought that add-on or just kept their old disks like I did. Fortunately I kept my Office 2003 disks and will use that forever until they inevitably kill it (because they can, not because they need to). Using MSO 2003 I can almost use the program blindfolded and can certainly use it at lightening speed. But again, if I had to use the new toolbar, I could draw out my spreadsheet on grid paper faster! Why is the ability to MANUALLY change both the creation date and the edited date in Evernote so important to virtually every serious user of Evernote? Because like most everyone else I've seen make comments in other forum posts, sometimes you stumble on a note that has a typo or something, but when you fix it, it changes the Edit Date to today. As much as possible I like the notes to be in "somewhat" chronological order (at least the correct year), so if I fix a typo I want to back-date the edit date back to what it was before I fixed the typo. I don't want a note from 2009 suddenly appearing at the TOP of my list of notes just because I fixed a typo! BUT, that's exactly what is happening now and I can't do ONE THING ABOUT IT and I'm extremely NOT happy about it. I understand this is not the current topic, but I don't have time to go into 10 forum topics to make my complains, so hopefully at least mentioning it here it will make it's way into the right hands. Yet another HUGE problem (I can deal with small annoyances) is that I "thought" once you Clipped an article from a website, you "owned it," meaning it stayed in your copy of Evernote forever, even if the website is long dead. I'm missing a TON of notes, where the title is there, the date, tags, notebook, etc. is all there, but the articles are NOT! It "appears" that NOW an Evernote article that you clipped from the web will only be in your own stand-alone copy of Evernote if the original website you clipped from is still active! This is a COMPLETELY INSANE move on Evernote's part, since webpages come and go, but their content my still be viable or even valuable. In fact, some of the content I had was online newspaper clippings THAT INVOLVED LEGAL CASES I'm involved in and were EVIDENCE in those cases, but because the website owner took down or archived the article, it also disappeared from MY copy of Evernote. This is COMPLETELY UNFORGIVEABLE. I just upgraded to 10.17 and have no idea exactly how many of my 22,000 notes, half of which were CLIPPED, are not gone forever! You people at Evernote better get your act together and LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS, or ASK THEM, before you make such ignorant changes like removing a note if the page it was clipped from is dead! That COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of even CLIPPING a note! I'm also a researcher and rely HEAVILILY on the things I clip remain in my Evernote database, since some of the projects the notes were clipped to use in are not complete and in some cases, the missing CLIP was a KEY part of the research or legal case. I'm not sure if this will recover my lost clippings, but I may have to revert back to the last working version of Evernote that worked like I wanted it to (meaning it was functional and a valuable piece of software that I WAS willing to keep paying for). If something doesn't change DRAMATICALLY that enables me to get my valuable data back, and get the functions back I used EVERY DAY, I'll very likely be FORCED to find another program were the programmers and/or decision makers use COMMON SENSE before they make changes that CRIPPLE their customers. Get it together Evernote or you'll soon have one less customer to worry about. FRUSTRATED AND FRANKLY PISSED! Oh, and have a nice day... Ugh!