rts

On 5/1/2021 at 1:43 PM, pansovic said:

any safe link where I can download Android version 8.13.3?

When I first investigated sideloading I learned that it was possible to download Android APK files directly from the Google Play Store's website. Given that the Play Store will still install v8.13.3 for versions of Android earlier than 10 it should be possible to grab an officially blessed APK file that way.

As to third-party sites, APKPure.com has an entire archive of Evernote versions up to 8.13.3. I've never seen evidence that APKPure's files contained malware or viruses, despite the question coming up frequently (viz Quora last month). Indeed, once you've installed v 8.13.3 ( after you've disabled automatic updates!) I would expect Google's Play Protect function to complain if it found something amiss.

On 4/25/2021 at 12:27 AM, ehrt74 said:

no, roll out schedules, like everything when it comes to programming, are a waste of time. .... If v10 can't handle your number of notes then it wouldn't be a better option for you.

My reference to a roll out schedule was tongue-in-cheek. It's pretty clear at this point that forecasting is not the company's strength. My point was that by six months after a product's release it's silly to excuse limitations and persistent problems as mere rollout issues. A 10k note limit in v10 when the Legacy apps and "Classic" web UI have no such limit begs the question: why was this limit added to v10? Why exclude some Premium customers from using a different web UI? A vaguely plausible explanation would be their "always online" design for v10 clients has an intractable limit that slows sync requests on large note collections to a glacial pace. Not really a response you can hand to the customer support team. Especially when you'd previously told them their all purpose response should be 'you need to upgrade to the latest version of v10'.

Using extreme programming or agile development as a description however is a bit of a red herring given that v10 was introduced as a replacement, not a technology preview. (I have no problem with a rolling release schedule BTW; Arch is my favorite Linux distribution.) If a product is still in beta yet management declares it gold and releases it to customers, it's hardly the fault of the development team.

On 4/25/2021 at 1:00 AM, PinkElephant said:

And QA may have a say ...

Oh, PinkElephant, you dare to dream big. I salute you!

20 hours ago, CalS said:

Same here, 5.33.0 is what I get.  I've been told it's a note count thing.  So 6.25.1 on desktop, V10 on IOS, and 5.33 the infrequent times I use the web.  I thought V10 on the web might give me some insight into V10 in general, they’re supposed to be similar.  Anyhoo....

I'm in almost the same boat as you. I don't have any Apple devices however and my most recent Android devices are only up to Pie (9). My options for satisfying any v10 curiosity were the PC desktop (never again) and the web. In the past I'd used the web interface on the rare occasion I was restricted to a Linux box. Nowadays Android tablets, VNC, and SSH have removed even that use case. So it appears I'll be sticking to Legacy versions for the remaining months of my Premium subscription. There are worse fates.

15 hours ago, Mike P said:

I don't think this is permanent but just for the roll out pf Version 10

I have no doubt, er, little doubt you are correct. This begs the question of how many months of v10's deployment can be honestly be described as a roll out. In a little over a week it will be six months since that accursed Evernote email notice arrived to tell me "The new Evernote is here." Certainly customers should be advised of a roll out schedule, no? I've received no such notice from the company. Without your help I wouldn't have realized I was a second class Evernote Web citizen.

This morning I tried web access again and was rewarded with a large popup notice asking if I wouldn't like to try the new Evernote Web. Remembering I'd been there before I closed my eyes, took a deep breath, and briefly recited the new Evernote Serenity Prayer, "Fine. Whatever." Although clicking on the notification did make it disappear I didn't see any other activity. I switched to another desktop for a while but when I returned there still didn't seem to be a difference. I thought perhaps I needed to log out for the change to take effect, but after logging out and a few hours later back in, no dice. The company still only deems me worthy of v5.33.0, an abandoned project. And so it goes.

12 hours ago, Mike P said:

I'm using 10.11.4 on Chrome. You are not using V10. Either that is a deliberate choice of you have a large account. Accounts with more than a certain number of notes (I don't recall and can't find how many) are not being updated to the web veresion of V10 at the moment.

My only choices were those indicated in the image: that version or the previous version. Frankly, it never occurred to me that my choices for a web interface would somehow be dictated by  the number of notes in my database. What possible difference could it make for an interface design? But at 11k notes I would probably be over the threshold you mention. The software design decisions of this company continue to amaze.

54 minutes ago, Mike P said:

I'm not quite sure what version of the web interface you are using. Here is a screenshot from my account:

At a glance I appear to be using Evernote Web v5.33.0 from Firefox on a Windows 10 PC. I'm guessing you were using something else.

On 4/8/2021 at 1:58 AM, ab1kenobee said:

Hello ehrt74:

Considering the all too many shortcomings of v.10 listed in this thread by long-time EN Subscribers...

HOW do you justify writing: "FIRST DECENT EN APP" ???

From a practical usage perspective... kindly detail your thinking.

On 4/8/2021 at 4:00 AM, ehrt74 said:

the web and android versions were a mess before v10. now they are a lot better.

Hmm, ehrt74's response doesn't seem particular detailed. I wonder why. Out of curiosity I just checked a tablet equipped with Android Evernote V8.13.3 (June '20 release) and the sidebar, for example, seems indistinguishable from the new, improved web version.

That said, I must recant a previous criticism of Evernote when comparing it to Joplin. A check today showed both apps returning proper results for Japanese, Russian, German, et al. The lack of search results I previously noted had only been observed using the New! Improved! web interface. That would be same interface that flashed the New! Improved! red alert box announcing a sync error had occurred. Repeatedly. Over an ethernet connection. Perhaps ehrt74 meant to write "FIRST DECENT SYNC ERROR MESSAGES" earlier? Or perhaps the vague arm-waving response was simply an homage to the level of detail in Evernote's feature roadmap for v10.

Just kidding, ehrt74. The v10 web interface does feature a new "View options" button. Unlike last year's Android release, however, clicking the button doesn't reveal any options. Just a text box announcing:

Quote

"More view options, including card view, are coming soon. You can help by taking this quick survey. We need your help because management accidentally deleted all copies of our earlier beta test responses and nobody here actually uses the product. Thanks a bunch."

Well, perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me with the last two sentences.

9 hours ago, eric99 said:

That is the strength of EN: eml is a strong well defined xml format,  described in a xml scheme. This can't be said from other note apps where less standardized export formats are used (joplin...)

This would be a more relevant argument if people in this thread were complaining about XML or the API. But they aren't, are they? They're complaining about the client software and (especially) the poor decisions being made by Evernote the company. Your TLAs aren't magic shields that can protect you from Ian Small.

Your Joplin comment manages to be both ignorant and specious. The GitHub version of Markdown is widely used but even if Joplin used a lesser known version of Markdown I wouldn't care. Joplin's export options include HTML and PDF -- both of which I think you'll grant are reasonably standardized.

I suspect you also don't realize the advantages that the simple text format at the heart of Joplin provide: faster and more versatile searches than Evernote provides. If I want to drop a dubious equation into a note I can either take advantage of the included KaTeX feature and jot down "$$ \pi=22/7 $$" for a centered equation as found in books or simply "π=22/7" for inline text. Similarly, if I were to make notes on this thread I'd probably be using "バカ!" a lot. While both Evernote and Joplin allow the use of katakana in a note only Joplin will return search results. Unless you count Evernote's "No notes found" as a search result.

6 hours ago, Garzfoth said:

Yet fear not dear reader, for DTlow is here to whisper soothing lies

Wow, that seems unduly harsh. DTLow has merely adopted the iffin'-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it approach to an established workflow using the Legacy version. That's a perfectly reasonable approach for some people. Others of us have found it time to move on and started exploring or actually migrating to other software. A mild sense of panic or being peeved can be useful if used to spur one to action. In any event, Ian Small's never seeing another dime of my money.

18 hours ago, ab1kenobee said:

Hello, Matheus:

Would appreciate your comments on the pros and cons of Joplin vs. EN Legacy.

Not addressed to me, but for what it's worth here are a few thoughts from someone who's shifted to using Joplin unless a feature of Evernote is absolutely needed. I mostly used Evernote to write notes, import PDF documents, and search through that information. On the writing notes part Joplin is perfectly usable and the search aspect is much faster than Evernote.

When it comes to OCR, however, Joplin is not (so far) a viable option. It's one thing to be able to insert a screenshot or attach a PDF to a note as a record for research, taxes, expense reports, etc. Creating a note that supports searching the text of a PDF or an image is a different matter entirely. Can you get around that limitation through external programs or the creative use of tags, sub-notebooks, etc.? Absolutely. Will that workflow be as easy as it used to be in Evernote? Probably not.

On the first few pages of this thread you can read people's woes because their fonts and carefully tweaked note formats were altered by v10. I'd be surprised and happy to discover they've found alternatives that didn't muck with their carefully crafted note designs. I'm not optimistic about their options. Certainly Joplin is not that alternative.

21 hours ago, DTLow said:

Tomorrow???   
I have no doubt that the Legacy product will be available for download and supported tomorrow

I have no doubt this support will stop at some point in the future   
At that time (or before), I will switch products
Our expectation/hope is the Version 10 product will be ready for general use; I'm monitoring the progress

We are in violent agreement on almost all points. The difference seems to be you define "support" along the lines of "it was working the last time I checked" and I define it along the lines of a product warranty. Your Windows XP computer in the attic might still "work" but that doesn't mean you should expect support from Microsoft.

21 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Why do you think that Evernote could 'hit a kill switch' even if they wanted to? The Blackberry OS client works fine and that was last updated in 2015. As long as the client speaks correctly with the Evernote API it will continue to work, and the Evernote API is rock solid.

The API being rock solid doesn't mean jack if you rely on access to servers you don't control. Evernote has shown they can add and kill program features and subscription terms whenever they wish. Hell, Ian Small's opinion of tags seems to have changed in the short time since the initial v10 release. A stable API is no guarantee of future support for application features or existing workflows. Or Legacy client access for that matter.

Of course there's always a chance that the trust you, PinkElephant, and other loyalists demonstrate is justified. I might be unduly skeptical of the customer support to be expected of an erstwhile sock company. Time will tell.

3 minutes ago, DTLow said:

The Legacy product is still supported for data sync purposes

>>You should bear in mind the company has clearly stated that they are making the Legacy version available for download

And that users should continue to use the Legacy Product if Version 10 interrupts the workflow
(Legacy download is only available for the Window/Mac platforms)

Oh, there's no question that Legacy works. For now. It could continue to work fine for another decade or HQ could hit a kill switch tomorrow. But if you started having syncing problems tomorrow is there any doubt in your mind that making a support request would result in anything other than "You need to upgrade"?

In addition to Legacy for Macs and PCs the company has also (inadvertently) introduced Android users to the joys of sideloading as their route to a Legacy equivalent. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a public service or not.

1 hour ago, Madflute said:

After 5 month of agony, finding out I can go back to Legacy version was ecstatic. Since yesterday, I am back to my happy Evernote life! All the lost functions are back, and the performance is back!

Now I am very curious. Can someone pitch me what's so great about the new Evernote ( Mac desktop version) about? I don't see it. To me, nothing about this new version is good.

Officially v10 is the only "supported" version. So I guess it has that going for it. The company has it own sound reasons for the shift to v10 but customer satisfaction doesn't seem high on their list. Releasing v10 in such an unfinished state has been pretty much a disaster.

You should bear in mind the company has clearly stated that they are making the Legacy version available for download but it is no longer a supported product and will only be available until v10 had reached some unspecified feature set. So your ability to download Legacy could end at any time. Are they specific on how long Legacy will be allowed to work or which Legacy features v10 will eventually support? No. Indeed, we've already seen some features are trimmed back substantially. So now some people who depend on particular Evernote features are using Legacy but also tracking v10 in hopes the beta period will end with it having the features they want/need.

On 1/16/2021 at 6:49 PM, Paul A. said:

 

I'm curious, do you both find 10.6.9 to be worse than earlier versions? If so, I hope you will consider reaching out to support (if you're subscribers) to note the problem so that they can fix it.

For my part, progress is a little uneven but each new version seems to be a little better than the last. 

I have stopped tracking v10 iterations because I find other hobbies more rewarding. And it would be a hobby at this point. (I use PC and Android devices, so PinkElephant's cheerful Mac/iOS reports are irrelevant to my situation.) I check this forum from time to time to learn from other people's workflow and alternative product reports. As a Premium account holder I'm using the Legacy grace period to verify Joplin meets my needs. EN as a company has simply lost my trust.

3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Very nice to read a post so full of emotion, and so devoid of any information. But maybe you don’t have anything of value to share anyhow ?

From my observation EN is clawing back to offer working v10 clients.

Since you're a big fan of information perhaps you'd like to share with the rest of the class your evidence that EN is indeed "clawing back to offer working v10 clients." Because a lot of people keep using words like "slow", "buggy", and the like. When someone complains they find 10.6.9 unusable on a Mac that is in fact useful information. It might not be at the level of detail to help developers fix problems or to warn users which particular features to avoid, but it's not the ****ing job of paying customers to help a company debug software that should never have been released in such a state.

8 hours ago, gazumped said:

They're doing an Elon and iterating their way through updates that add extra (code) engines to the basic frame,  and - I imagine fairly quickly - we should get pretty much the full range of the 'legacy' apps back.

Meantime I'm continuing to operate in my own little bubble without any disruption - because being tech-savvy I know NOT to be first with new tech,  and I killed all the automatic update functions on my various devices and apps before they were tempted to do anything silly.

I don't have much sympathy with anyone currently having issues (unless they're on iOS!!) because on most operating systems and devices there's a way either to dump the new app and go back to the old ones,  or to run the official Legacy app alongside the new.

But everyone seems to be struggling and demanding that Evernote fix the issues - which is exactly what they're busy doing anyway!  If you're not prepared for the hassle - just go back to the old app!!  Evernote will fix things - eventually.

As Grand Moff Tarkin once put it, you're far too trusting. Once you've concluded that v10 should have been presented as a preview/beta/work-in-progress instead of as "the new Evernote" you have to ask yourself, why was it released in that shape? The missing features people have complained about aren't bugs, they're design decisions. Ditto for the font choice limitations, etc. So why should we believe that the company will "fix things" when management has already given the green light to reduced functionality?

It seems to me there are three explanations for the premature v10 release: 1) management thought the product was "close enough" for most users (viz Small's statements on tags), 2) some idiot(s) thought adding features to a released product would be easy, or 3) v10 was pushed out for reasons unrelated to customer acceptance, such as being evidence the company was meeting milestones. I'm inclined to think it's a mix of all three, but none suggest that customers using the Legacy apps will see all the features they rely on appear in v10. On the contrary the company has declined to make explicit promises on how long the (already unsupported) Legacy version will be available or what specific features v10 will have when it's "finished".

I think the customer venting, er, feedback is useful should someone at the company actually pay attention to the posts. Given Small's shifting assessments of v10's meeting people's needs I suspect the feedback is being mostly ignored at some point in the chain of command, but one can hope. As to this particular forum discussion, I've learned a lot from the posts detailing how people are using Evernote and the experiences of people migrating to other software.

8 hours ago, James0505 said:

Does anyone know a way to revert to the old evernote? Particularly on Android Mobile.

Alas, at the bottom of the page describing the Legacy version (i.e., the way it used to work) it says it's only for the Mac OS and Windows versions:

Quote

 

Can I use a legacy app on iOS or Android?

No. Evernote Legacy is only available for Mac and Windows.

 

In theory one could side load an earlier version on Android. If you/I/we had known how bad things would get we could have saved the earlier version of the application, its APK file. It would be easy for them to deny access to our information on their servers if it detected an earlier version however.

UPDATE: A web search revealed a site with an archive of older versions: apkpure.com. I'm sure there are others. How much you're willing to trust a third-party site is up to you.

7 hours ago, Metrodon said:

Assuming what they say is true (and why would they bother not telling the truth?) tags are used by a very very small subset of users.

So, tags aren't a big deal.

Never attribute to malice that which may be explained by incompetency. And shipping v10 before it was ready and then leading people to believe it was ready is not a sign of competence at the top. Ian Small may indeed be the CEO the company needs to survive. I am certain however that I can't take his or the company's promises on faith.

As to tags, I use them as just one example of missing functionality. Tags may not be a big deal for me or you. They've been around forever though and I have yet to hear anyone make a case that they shouldn't have been put in the product in first place. Indeed, if the new received wisdom is that very few people use tags you have to wonder why they were put in there in the first place. Notebooks? Nested tags? Color-coded tags? Is it possible that these were put into the product in response to customer demand? Meta data for database records? Crazy talk, I know. And don't get me started on the font decisions.

The problem with serving multiple platforms with a common code base is that there is always an incentive to pick the lowest common denominator in your product design. In v10 I see that LCD approach and similarities to the web client. I have used web access on occasion when I was using Linux. I'd say it was adequate for light use, but not something I'd choose over a desktop app. Similarly v10 is a LCD solution that many may find adequate. It's certainly not something that's going to keep this customer paying for a Premium account, however.

2 hours ago, Brendan Murphy said:

Huh?  Tom, they haven't been silent for 3 months.  They have pushed out numerous updates since the initial v10 release, almost on a bi-weekly basis.  That's not silence.  And the fact that they have been able to push out those updates so quickly is proof that the direction the current CEO has taken them on is working.

If they are able to make improvements so quickly then why were they in such a rush to release it? It arrived with a bunch of problems that should have been caught in QA. Not to mention it was missing features that people rely on for their workflow.

To be fair, I highly doubt the developers were in a rush to release something so unfinished. That was almost certainly a management decision driven by a CEO who didn't think tag support was a big deal.

2 hours ago, Forum said:

Evernote has always been my "goto" app but now I must resort to searching for a new similar app. If anyone has a suggestion please let me know.

Thanks

Welcome, kinsman! There doesn't seem to be a drop in replacement at present, so your options are limited by what you most value in what's now branded as the Legacy version. If you are happy with a product that only works on Mac OS and iOS, for example, then DEVONthink is worth looking at. Reviewing the previous comments in this thread will provide numerous other candidates, again depending on what capabilities you most need/want and which EN capabilities you could easily live without.

I am currently testing Joplin because it appears adequate to my needs even if it falls far short for other people's circumstances. Web clipping seems to be a capability not easily replaced, so I suspect I may have to switch to a free EN account and adjust my workflow to use EN's clipper and periodically export the resulting notes to my new app. Ugh, just typing that possibility makes me sick to my stomach.

6 hours ago, oliverthom707 said:

I have 10000 notes is my favourite... like you even look at 5% of them. I suggest if someone has 10000 notes that relies on colour coded tags you aren’t managing your information  very well.

This comment would be more useful if you indicated how EN users could more productively manage their information. If you were trying to encapsulate the current attitude of EN corporate management, however, then full marks.

2 hours ago, NorcalScott said:

Hmmm, I have about 8,000 work notes from over 10 years.  Do I look at 5% of them?  No, not really, but that is missing the point of a solution like Evernote completely.

Indeed. EN is a useful tool because it provides easy access to a database's information, its organization, and its presentation. Crippling those abilities in favor of a new facade is expecting customers to accept an inferior product. Telling customers they shouldn't be using a product as they have been using  it for years is at the core of the problems many of us have with the new v10.

3 hours ago, DTLow said:

>>The new version is totally unusable

 

This would be the Version 10 product; a work-in-progress     
imho It's not ready for general use.    
In their release notes, Evernote advises   If your workflow depends on these features, you can continue to use our legacy apps.

Yeah, the majority of the posts in this thread are assessing v10 as "not ready". The company could have avoided a lot of drama and ill will if they had offered it as a preview/testing/beta release. Instead the email I got announced "The new Evernote for Windows has landed." There were no disclaimers. As the poet noted, "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away." To which I'd simply add that once lost, customer trust is not easily regained.

I think your practice of regular offline backups is wise. So is holding back on client updates until some of the dust has settled. And you're obviously entitled to your own take on the current situation. I just think we've reached different conclusions on the urgency of having an exit strategy. EN customers making plans based on the assumptions that v10 will ever be "complete" or that Legacy syncing will work indefinitely are entirely too trusting in my view.

1 hour ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

So, I went through the list of alternatives. The list is good, the ratings all seem extremely subjective. Basically, the ratings are based on author's personal preferences.

There's simply no way Joplin should be rated above Onenote. It has no OCR, no handwriting, it must be put inside an encrypted container if you want to protect your data on desktop, and its iOS version is very severely crippled. There's much more, I won't get into everything. This is not to say that it won't work for some people, but I would never rate it that high. 

I wholeheartedly agree. I only  refer people to that list so they know some alternatives exist, not to endorse particular choices or to pretend that 25guy's criteria are definitive. A program might tick a feature box but that's no guarantee that the feature has been implemented well after all. And while I personally have a lingering fondness for programmable folding editors (Leo, Org-Mode) and simple tools like TiddlyWiki I would never seriously suggest them to people as replacements for EN. (Indeed, I would strongly prefer to just keep using EN Legacy, but that option isn't one I have much control over.)

I suspect there are some EN users in this thread who have important criteria that 25guy didn't really consider and vice versa. For example before this v10 debacle the importance of local hosting wasn't on my radar screen -- now it's a deal breaker at the top of my list. There are also a number of features such as tag hierarchies and sharing notebooks across a team that aren't relevant to my workflow but I'm well aware that other people consider them vital. Many of us are being forced to make unpleasant choices.

3 hours ago, Frankie1972 said:

OMG the new version stinks and is unusable for my workflow,  I'm concerned that legacy support will die off... what the alternatives?  One note?  this is not good.  

I've been pointing people to 25guy's list of Evernote alternatives. The short answer for those happy to live in Apple's walled garden seems to be DEVONthink. For the rest of us our best choice greatly depends on the features we consider essential to our workflow. My use of tags and text formatting is rudimentary when compared to the way others here use EN, for example, so Joplin is at the top of my evaluation list. Others in this thread have found Joplin's lack of <X> to be a deal breaker and so are looking at other options. I have yet to hear of an alternative to EN that won't take some adjustment and/or compromise by the user.

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I truly don’t get the hysteria around the legacy app which exists in these forums. What is this mysterious bug people speak of that means you need support and won’t get it? It’s stable.

I don't see much hysteria but I do see a tsunami of ****** off customers. It's true that the legacy version is stable. It's also true that EN management has deliberately chosen to not guarantee that stable version will work for a set period of time. Why? It's clear to everyone that v10 was simply not ready for release. Worse, people who've tried the pretty but barely functional v10 have lost hours/days of work from changes to their notes thanks the new software. There's no good reason that should have happened.

And I wouldn't describe the other emotion as hysteria so much as desperation -- people realizing that documents they've worked hard to produce could be damaged or even lost. The damage to their notes and work flow that some people are seeing could be inflicted on everyone at the whim of EN management. Well, maybe whim is the wrong word. There was presumably a good reason in the eyes of EN management. Unfortunately it was just one that had little to do with serving their existing customers. From the outside it strikes this observer as the behavior of a management team trying to save a company that's in decline. So yeah, some people's dismay is quickly morphing into the recurring theme of "Abandon ship!"

21 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Get yourself one of these lightning fast new M1 Macs and go ahead 👍

I already have Android, Linux, and Windows machines in my life so I'm somewhat skeptical of adding Mac/iOS devices to the mix to simplify my life. However my Ryzen desktop machine has more cores than I normally use and plenty of RAM, so perhaps a Mac VM? No, that way lies madness.