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Everything posted by mgsxx

  1. Thank you for the clear explanation. I'm sorry to hear it's indeed not a bug Aggressive marketing is so much not my thing that such "features" are urging me to drop the product.
  2. Evernote for Windows I removed the upgrade button and relaunched Evernote. So far so good. I'll let you know if it'll pop up again. So, this annoying behavior of the upgrade button is not a feature but a bug? It's very hard to differentiate between the two with aggressive marketing. I'll be very glad to know it's a bug.
  3. No. It's just a fact. Like a fact that I too use Evernote and it works for me in some ways. Several facts do not constitute complete statistics. To get this strait and for the record: pretty much all I said in this thread is just my opinion. I do not insist it's infallible and not even plain wrong. And I do not expect everybody to agree with me. Also, as you no doubt have noticed, my English is far from perfect. It makes me harder to understand. I apologize for this and ask to cut me some slack I try to be clear as I can.
  4. Of course. It's just my opinion. Does this fact makes it bad or wrong or whatever? I haven't heard any counterarguments. And I see value in Evernote too, I said it many times. For me Plus is worth the price Evernore asks for a jotting down place. Yet. But it's not "me" and not "now" I'm talking about. I trying to predict the future. Will the pro users continue to use Evernote and pay? I seriously doubt that.
  5. How come? To remember everything first you have to store everything in Evernote. You don't do so, you said.
  6. Isn't it is the idea Evernote is promoting all these years? "Remember everything"? They failed this promise, both technically and ideologically. That's what I'm trying to explain. I do too. But for nothing else. What I'm trying to say is that many other solutions exist that can be used to do the same, and soon Evernote will find hard to justify it's prices. For many it's already so. Pay 30-70 bucks for some obscure not-really-needes features while there is free Apple Notes, Google Keep, Simplenote, Pocket, and *several* practically free Evernote knock-offs? No, it's not enough to survive IMO. "Simplification" and "dumbing down" are very different things. Evernote tends to forget that. As the result they have lost many, many users that wanted not-that-dumb interface. The same users they now try to attract back, people that do plenty of work with information and ready to pay for adequate tools. Pro user will not be scared by complexity (do not confuse with complicatedness), they will glad to use it. As you say himself: That's what real pro users are willing to deal with. My setup is just as complex AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I NEED. Complex setup for complex work. 1. As I already said, simplifying does not necessarily mean removing features. It's common misconception. 2. Numbers of complains does not matter. What really matters is who's compaining: paying customers you are intend to live from or everybody else. You can't please everybody and should not waste efforts trying to do so. Choose your user and make her happy. What I'm arguing about is that IMO Evernote chose wrong users to please. Evernote as it exists now is useful for casual uses like jotting down some ideas and web clips and that's pretty much all. You see that himself, don't you? And it just does not worth $70 a year given even the existing competition, don't mind the future.
  7. Yes, exactly. But after much thought about it I see this as the main problem of Evernote as a product. Why I think so is too long to describe. A few weeks time Anybody want to pay for the article I need to write to explain my arguments? No? Bad editor can be fixed, it's mostly technical challenge. But underlying inability to structure data is the real problem. You may not feel it but it's there. It's like GTD: nobody thinks he needs it until he gets the idea. Nobody thinks they need to structure their notes for pretty much any serious work (large amounts and complexity, like hundreds or even dozens of notes of different kinds) until they see how to do so. Evernote doesn't really have anything to offer in this regard so you just don't know what you are missing. In other words, if EverNOTE is not EverComplexDataRetrieval, then why to bother to store complex data in it in the first place? Now there is plenty of good, cheep of even free solutions for simple notes. I would wager that in a few years Apple Notes will take a major chunk of this market, and Google Keep will get the rest. Who will pay for Evernote then? This is the question that Evernote executives should have been thinking about many years ago. But they blew it IMHO. It's too late. I like English language. For example, unlike my native language, there is nice clear distinction between words "complex" and "complicated". Now Evernote has simple (simplistic even) data model, from-somewhat-to-too-much complicated user interface, and technical problems to boot. Technical problems could be fixed, complicated interface can be made to be less complicated, but underlying oversimplicity will not go away while Evernote is EverNote. A this will kill Evernote in the long run. Pretty much anybody can do a simple notes cloud service and they do so in numbers. What I personally would be really happy to see is complex (not compilcated!) data model and simple (in a sense "not complicated") UI. Yes, it's a very hard task. But it's doable. Well, Evernote as a company clearly does not think along this lines. They think people will continue to pay for their service for some reason. For some nobody-needs-them features? I think they wrong and Evernote will die. Very soon they will have nothing to offer to justify their premium prices. My use of Evernote is very limited nowadays. I don't write anything in it, I use dedicated Markdown editors. For project notes I use OmniOutliner. For organizing files I use Spotlight and Leap (I live mainly on my Mac these days). For GTD I use Things. For Remiders - Due and Things. In principle, Evernote can be used for any of the tasks mentioned but the result will be order of magnitude worse. I did have tried. Evernote can be used for anything but is not really good at anything. And the core reason of it is Evernote's data model.
  8. These all are steps in the right direction. And the fact that they are happening is encouraging. FINALLY they remembered about basic usability. But they are constricted by large existing codebase, different client discrepancies, but most of all - by too primitive data model, IMHO. For example, the most interesting feature from the mentioned, "simulated tag inheritance", is implemented only on Windows (Mac or iOS clients does not support it, and web client does not too), does not work with "-tag:" queries, and basically is just a pure Windows client interface hack. it's a horrible user experience and at closer examination proves to be practically unusable. Typical of Evernote. These features are just scratching a long, long standing itches. New beta features? Haven't seen them but I do not hold my breath. They do not sound like attempts to address real Evernote issues, IMHO. What are those issues and how to address them? Well, I have a few thoughts. If Evernote will pay me I will write them down in a week or two 8-) In short, Evernote is not suited for the structured information and for structuring information because of the too simplistic data model, primitive and inconvenient ways of selecting notes by non-trivial criteria, and completely rigid styles of presenting selected notes. Evernote is not a data storage, it's just a bunch of barely organized notes, and in the end you are at mercy of full text search. Add to this the abysmal in its limitedness note editor and you get the complete picture. Granted, existing data model is enough for many. FTS is great, don't get me wrong. But for pro users it's not exactly enough. I think, practically all that Apple have to do to take away pretty much all Evernote users that use mainly Apple devices and that still do not left is to implement simple tags...
  9. In Evernote defense, I must say that IMO, despite all, Evernote is still the best general-purpose note taking solution available. And they have one feature that I am willing to backup with my money: they do not sell my data to the ad agencies. There is not that many solutions you can say that about. Still. The mandatory "upgrade" toolbar button is very obnoxious nevertheless
  10. Other then the prices change and cutting freeloaders I don't see any real changes. IMO the product itself is flowed in many ways, in ideology and in implementation alike. If they want to appeal to the pro users in order to fetch premium prices on increasingly competitive market they have to think about features those pro users need, dammit. Well, we shall see. I hope for the best, but i'm ready for the worst...
  11. You see, at one point I loved Evernote. These days are long gone... And it's really sad. Evernote had chance to become a GREAT product. But they blew it IMO.
  12. I understand. All in all, I should had been more polite... But I really can't find polite words for this. A raw spot was touched :-/
  13. Nope. I'm not talking about ads. They are obnoxious too but I'm talking about "upgrade" button in the Evernote Windows client toolbar that pops up after deleting it. Feel free to customize your toolbar, our precious paying customer! That's what I'm angry at. The post you are referring to has nothing to do with the issue. I agree, I'm not polite. It's on purpose. IMO that genius that devised this "feature" deserves it. Maybe it make him/her to think a little if he/she can do so. I'm very angry at such obnoxious policies and IMO alienating paying customers is not a wise strategy. So I want to look angry. As I indeed am. Of course, Evernote designers are free to ignore my anger and most probably they'll do exactly that. Well, all I can do is to provide honest feedback.
  14. Hi there, really wise marketing guys at Evernote! So, you "extorted" the Plus subscription from me. I'm not that keen on Evernote as I was a few years ago when I was a premium user but I stil use it for some purposes. Looking at competitors I see no better solution. It's not that Evernote is really good it's just that others are not good at all. In particular, the main migrating choice of many people, OneNote, has horrible data model IMO. So I decided to stay and pay. I'm not accusing you or anything in "forcing" me to pay. it's your right to set any price you like and you still have the best option available on the market for me and for people like me. So the move to cut free services may just work. Freeloaders will go away, some of them start to pay. No, I'm angry at you for completely different reason. Your Windows desktop client allows to customize the toolbar buttons. There is the Upgrade button. It can be removed, BUT THEN IT POPS UP AGAIN!!!! Yep, I'm a paying customer and I can't make the f*ng toolbar as I like it to be. Becouse you just f*cking have to FORCE me to pay premium which I don't want and will not ever want. But no, you prefer to *insist*, in the rudest way. It would be less rude just to forbid to remove the button. At least it will be a honest message: you are not enough of a paying customer. But instead you pretend to give me a choice and then it turns out to be a lie, you take it away in the clumsiest manner possible. It's the worst level of obnoxiousness. And NOBODY from the new CEO down to the programmer who made this sh*t seems to notice anything wrong with the approach. I think Evernote institutiobally isn't capable to do anything really good. Despite subscribung I keep waiting for alternatives. Maybe Apple Notes will grow up to it in a few years. Some notebooks I have migrated there, Apple enex import feature works mostly OK. Meanwhile take you precious "upgrade" button and shove it in some part of you body for permanent storage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  15. Yes, of course I know. The point is, this is so inconvenient that I don't ever use it. If so, then why bother with systems that will require me to search by two tags? Inconvenient? Not for me. Works fine. Why bother with two tags? More accurate search results. Well, if it works for you, it works for you. For me it doesn't work.
  16. Yes, of course I know. The point is, this is so inconvenient that I don't ever use it. If so, then why bother with systems that will require me to search by two tags?
  17. At first I tried to use tags extensively. But eventually I almost cease to use them to organise notes. Why? If there so many tags that separate tags search is required to find the one you need, search by tag and entering tags become quite cumbersome. There is no way in general case to guarantee that notes that have to have a tag do have it. With a notebook you can't forget to assign a notebook, with a tag you surely can. So in general case with tags you can't trust tags to find all notes you need and have to use search for that. And if you going to search why bother with tags at all? I, being an organisational freak, can't give up easily and sometimes I still use tags. My tags looks like this: Very few very general tags I do remember, like "iOS" and "CPP". They are useful to sort out notes in notebooks like my notebook "programming notes". To mark notes with a very specific meaning like a project I work on or a theme I research (the tag "theme: implementing Oracle Streams setup" is a real example) I use some home-brewed templating mechanism to creates notes sometimes. And sometimes I set a tag in the template itself to mark the fact a note was created that way. It's automatic and reliable. In this cases tags proved to be useful and working OK. Mentioned above inherent tags problems become worse with IMHO quite bad Evernote interface for tags. In particular due to this I do not use: Hierarchical tags Searches with two (or more ) tags Tags like a way to divide notes in separate groups like notebooks do Tags in shared notebook In general, over the years I grew more an more reliant on search. Why? I do not have to remember the structure I impose (or think I impose) on my notes. For this reason I also try to keep number of notebooks to the absolute minimum, not because there is only 255 available.
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