TheMagicWombat

You act as if I have not already acknowledged that several times over. Do tell, did you READ this thread before jumping into it?

Such is your right! And, it is probably totally in line with all of your other decisions--ignore what you don't like because you don't like HOW the message was delivered. Who would I be to expect you to change?

No. Your exact quote was, "For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action Again, in direct response to your assertion you would have advance notice of Evernote's demise, I am asking you specifically: Based upon the fact that the majority of privately held companies give NO advance notice of closing up shop, what is it that makes you confident? That is what I am asking. Nothing more, nothing less. No questions as to whether or not you think you will fine when they pull the plug--just, what is it that makes you think they will tell the world--or you specifically--that they are about to pull the plug. Now, if you want to say you mis-spoke, that is fine. Just do so. But if you did not, I would sure like to know what gives you such confidence.

Not the lord's work--my work. When I say something, and someone else "corrects" me with incorrect information, there is no way I am allowing that to happen. If I make a mistake, and it does happen, you pile on all you want--that is the price for being wrong. but to correct me with incorrect information or statements? Nope, that won't slide by. Look all the trite insults I let slide by. I don't know any of you people, so, frankly, I care as little about your opinions of me as you do my opinions of you. But when when someone tries to correct me with mis-information? Nope, not going to happen.

Based upon the fact that the majority of privately held companies give NO advance notice of closing up shop, what is it that makes you confident? I mean, once it is apparent to Evernote that they are closing up shop, it is in their best interests to keep everyone else in the dark up to the moment they pull the plug.

Nice diversion attempt. The reality of this debate is I post the way things are, you try to find an exception to prove it doesn't apply to you (which is semantics on YOUR part), and then I steer us back to the way the rest of the world--and your own past-posts--view the subject.

1. But you DO make them knowing they guard against other events, correct? 2. Don't be so confident. Privately held companies have a nasty habit of not announcing they are going bankrupt because they are usually hoping that some planned "Hail Mary" play will save them. Look to the Montgomery Ward bankruptcy as a textbook (literally) example. Companies do NOT announce faltering fortunes because to do so speeds up the process (executives lose their paychecks sooner) and pretty much guarantees the company's death. Usually, as a company is winding down, management is stripping as much out of the company as possible while surreptitiously looking for employment elsewhere. If you look at how bankruptcies happen in the service and retail sectors, consumer rarely get any advance notice. In fact, that is why Sunday is the most ideal day for companies to file for Bankruptcy... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/08/why-do-companies-always-file-for-bankruptcy-on-sundays.html Your confidence runs contrary to reality.... When Evernote goes belly up, in all likelihood, you will find out about it by a notice that you cannot connect to the Evernote database, and asking if you would like to work offline.

You've already acknowledged your data is safe against Evernote's demise because you have your own back-ups. Unless this was some new concept to you that you only became aware of the possibility of Evernote failing as a company because *I* informed you of it, your backups were made prepping for that and all other eventualities which you acknowledge are within the realm of realistically feasible problems. Do tell, you roof, is it Saran Wrap? How about a thin piece of glass? No? Do you, like most people have a roof that you can walk on? Probably. We build our homes for the purpose of protecting us from all realistically probable harm--including rain, snow, lightning, the occasional tree branch, etc, etc... You have been reduced to actually arguing that you would NEVER even consider protecting your data against anything major, because it is unlikely to happen. You are actually arguing that you would never even consider insuring your assets from acts of god of terrorist attack. Well, you know who DOES consider such eventualities? Your insurance company that, in all likelihood, specifically excluded acts of god and terrorist attacks from your base insurance policy, and probably wanted an increased premium to do so! Come on--this is what you have reduced yourself to--trying to come up with a specific very unlikely event and arguing that because you have never contemplated that event, you are not backing up your data for disaster preparedness. Well, whether you intend to do so or not, the act os properly backing up your data, and keeping copies in separate locations, is disaster preparedness. When you make a copy of your data, do you take that copy and leave it sitting on top of the computer? No? You move it to a separate location? Don't want to have a fire consume your HD and your back-up media, do ya? Psst... a fire is technically a disaster when it wasn't planned and it consumed something you didn't want it to consume. Might only be a small disaster if it is a small fire, but it is still a disaster. So, you can continue to argue you are not doing disaster preparedness, but you are going to have to make yourself look more and more foolish--or dishonest--by arguing the long list of things you are specifically not protecting against. Also, it is a good thing you are not putting up your roof to guard against meteorites--they come THROUGH roofs. Chunks of rock sturdy enough to survive entry into our atmosphere travelling 87m/sec* tend to do that. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/meteorite-uruguay-break-house-how-rare *194.61 MPH -- And since you mentioned the Ann Hodges strike, you should already have known they travel fast enough to shred virtually any roof if they are much larger than a marble, since it went through her roof and THEN struck her. Hint: If you decide to argue you don't put up drywall to stop .50 bullets, I will applaud that decision--they have a nasty habit going through several inches of wood. *

You were trying to say you weren't making your backups for "disaster preparedness" but rather because it was "common sense". That is a little like saying you are not putting a bandage on the wound to staunch the bleeding but because it is "commonly accepted medical practice in this situation". Common sense actions do not sit in a vacuum. They are a result of, response to, or preparedness for, an event. In short, "common sense" is an adjective--but not truly a noun except in rare circumstances when we actually ARE discussing "common sense" itself in vacuum. Other times, we simply shorten things down and use it like a noun, e.g. "That is just common sense" but in reality, the noun is understood--similar to the way: "Go." Is a complete sentence despite the apparent lack of a noun. The noun, we understand, is "you". Or possibly "I". Again, we discern the noun from context. If someone had just asked, "What will you do?" we know the subject is the speaker. The full sentence would be "Backing up your data is just common sense to prepare for any form of data loss--from one corrupted record up through and including WWIII." Therefore, your backing up of data is to prepare for data loss for a variety of reason--and as by your own statement, some of those reasons are disasters. Good of you to prep for all possible reasons tho--I assume you do like I do and have a copy at home and a copy as work, in cases disaster strikes either one of those places.

Are you really trying to tell me that if those Evernote servers got hit by a NoKo nuke you would say, "No--these backups I have are only for a minor disk failure--or software migration--I cannot use them for this because it is a disaster!*" Be honest--you make those backups without thinking of a LIMIT on them--you make them for ANY eventuality up to and including everything major that still leaves us with some form of government and economy. Common sense says to make backups and store them in a separate location from the main server because common sense acknowledges that the Black Swan does not pre-announce her arrival, nor does she come in only one size. But, I'll make you a deal, if you swear you would not use those backups if there was a disaster and they could recover your data, I'll give you a pass. That's all you gotta do! *I am assuming, of course, you have HTML, or some other generic form of backups.

Wrong--once you are discussing the need to for a backup, unless you are discussing it ONLY in terms of voluntary migration--you are discussing disaster preparedness. This is reinforced by the fact we were discussing what to do if the Evernote servers dropped--of which you were part of the conversation... But, I digress. At least, that is what it is called in the business world with companies that employ more than themselves. And, again, I remind you, you do not speak for everybody. You only speak for yourself. Others might voice an assent, but it is up to them to say so after they have heard what you have said. Remember, if I was discussing disaster preparedness, which I was, everyone talking with me was also discussing disaster preparedness.

Wow, you REALLY think you get to tell me what to do? ROFLMAO!!! You need your own HBO Stand-up special! Fact: We were not discussing note-taking--we were discussing the need for disaster preparedness. Fact: You cannot discuss disaster preparedness without discussing disasters. Fact: The more extreme the disaster and the better the recovery, the more relevant the event is to the conversation. Fact: The companies that were prepared for ANYTHING up to and including WWIII starting in NYC were probably the best examples (or very, very good) of disaster preparedness there are. Fact: These forums do support an ignore feature so you don't receive my posts. Fact: You should probably consider using that feature. Edit: WTF??? This post pushed me to Level 3??? I a now certain their Tier awards are NOT merit based!

Based upon the fact he was informing me of the same thing I was informing others of--in the very post he responded to--I don't think it would have done any good. And, that was one of the best episodes. When Leonard held that up it was a riot!

 We were discussing, with me taking the side of "not a chance" whether or not tags could replace nested folders. Some people claim they can. I and others know they cannot. I gave an example of a LONG tag that would be required as one of many to emulate a nested folder system. In response, you said: "If this is an actual tag you are missing the point on tags in general, independent of the specifics of EN. Tags work best in a relational model not a hierarchical model." I then, in response, said: "If only I had known..." I was actually writing on why tags WON'T work, and then you stepped in and chided me trying to make it work. Now, before we go any farther, do you dispute what I have said so far in this post?

Actually IF you had actually read what I wrote, and the article in Harvard Business Review (A+ rated business scholarly publication!), yo would know that because the was one of the worst disasters, and was, for the most part unforeseen, it is an example of HOW disaster preparedness is done correctly. There are those who were counting on things to never go wrong, those who were literally ready for the building to get nuked and fall over, and those who were somewhere in -between. The farther you were away form the first extreme, and closer to the second, the more likely your business survived the day just fine. You may not like the fact that people who are trying to prevent future losses study disasters to minimize their impact in the future, but that is you. The rest of us study when things go horribly bad so that they are not quite as bad the next time around.

Wow, you'd think by level 5 you would be able to spot biting sarcasm.

But when you create a folder name in ... anything... The program does not then assume you will want to give that same name to other things. With tags, once I go to apply a tag, and start to type in the first characters, the possible tag options wait for me to just choose one and hit enter. The more tags, the more I am forced to picking through them to the one I want and then drag and dropping the tag onto the record. Thus, keeping the number of tags low is prudent, while with folders the number of folders is pretty much a non-issue. And, you are still left with massive amounts of tag clutter. fwiw: If you are saying nested hierarchy for record storage is not needed, you are wrong. If you are saying Evernote won't do a nested hierarchy for record storage, you are correct.

I could handle that--IF it worked and didn't force me to deal massive amounts of clutter. But, it doesn't, and it does.

If only I had known...

You are actually trying to equate a reference to one of the of the most often cited Harvard Business Review articles on disaster preparedness with Hitler. That is all you got? That article has been cited in 141 scholarly articles and books on the subject. For everyone who enjoys learning more than making really poor analogies, here is the complete Google Scholar listing of the books and articles that reference that particular HBR article: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=13015085434493713480&as_sdt=5,36&sciodt=0,36&hl=en

I am flattered you consider me the equivalent of an artificial intelligence, able to pull in facts and data on a whim. Rest assured, I am just a humble man like yourself. I simply read and understand a lot. You can get there if you try.

Congratulation on being the 502 person to say that!

1. It is CRITICAL to this discussion, and IF you employed people, you would know that. When your computer system can't be used, do you know what your employees will be doing? They will be collecting earning their base pay, SSI, WC, Health Insurance, retirement, and any and all other monies you pay out for them. And do you know what they will be doing to earn that money? Playing Candy Crush Saga on their phones. What that means is if Evernote drops today, and you don't have a replacement ready, you will be paying... $20-$25 per hour each menial employee is there playing CCS. And while that is happening, your customers are growing wary of you, and are looking at your competitors. There was a major event that happened on September 11, 2001. Arab terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center buildings, the Pentagon, and one crashed in a Pennsylvania woods. There was a financial services/wall street company (I don't recall the name, but I will Goggle it if you want the info) housed in one of the Towers that was open the next day for business. Their employees were all educated that should some event happen to close the buildings, they should call a specific number and receive instructions. That Tuesday night the employee called the number, and were told of the back-up office location. The employees went there the next day, and were informed where their respective desks were, and went to them. Their computers had all their software and files waiting for them. Their old phone numbers were forwarded to their new phones. Simply put, they sat down and went to work as if 9/11 had never happened. Sure, the company probably paid somewhere between $1M and $2M to have the place set up, and another $.5M a year to maintain a basically fallow building, but when you are making several millions of dollars per day, you can't afford downtime for looking for a new business location, setting it up, and then hiring the people to replace the peope who found other work because their unemployment ran out, and was pennies compared to what their commissions were. Heck--look at the NYBOT remote trade centers that were created after the 1993 World Trade Center truck bomb--they cost the NYBOT $300K per year to just sit there. Empty. Doing nothing. But after 9/11 those emergency centers were one of the best investments the NYBOT had made. For a good overview of the subject, I refer you to Crisis Communication: Lessons from 9/11, Harvard Business Review, DEC 2002. https://hbr.org/2002/12/crisis-communication-lessons-from-911 Like all HBR articles, it can be a bit dry, but the information is invaluable. 2. I know of no one who plans for downtime, yet downtime does somehow seem to occur... 3. I am sure for your laissez faire, low-need, Bohemian work structure, Evernote is the cats meow, Daddy-o! Don't see many Fortune 500s using it though. But, I am sure you would know their needs better than they would...

Chunky peanut butter is to real peanut butter as raw potato chunks mixed into mashed potatoes is to real mashed potatoes. Everyone knows that! Might as well put raw cranberries into your cranberry sauce!

Only because Evernote intentionally nerfed notebooks. Think about what you just said--tags == organizing. Organizing means to make things arranged in a neat, useful, and compact manner. Tags do no such thing. or·gan·ize /ˈôrɡəˌnīz/ Learn to pronounce verb 1. arrange into a structured whole; order. "organize lessons in a planned way" synonyms: put in order, order, arrange, sort, sort out, assemble, marshal, put straight, group, dispose, classify, collocate, categorize, catalog, codify, tabulate, compile, systematize, systemize, regulate, regiment, standardize, structure, shape, mold, lick/knock into shape, pigeonhole; More 2. make arrangements or preparations for (an event or activity); coordinate. "the union organized a 24-hour general strike" Tags don't do any of those--except maybe ... no, they don't even systematize. What they do is allow you to pre-decide what important categories a record might have as a property, and label said tag for when you do you scan or peruse that category. The nested tags, as is often pointed out, allows one to emulate organization, but that is only if you ... Multiply your number of tags. For a long time I have been trying to verbalize what it is about tags that just doesn't work, and I admit I have failed. I know they don't work, as other people have also encountered, but we've not been able to explain it. One thing, important to at least me, why tags don't emulate nested notebooks well is because doing so makes it impossible to have a logical and concise tag system. I am forced to have some of my tags be for what tags are for ("Hey, this relates to motivating students--I'll tag it "Student Attention") and some of them relate to emulating my nested folders (Classes > 2019 > Spring > International Business > Section 002 > Missed Quiz Absolution. My tags are becoming unwieldy. The true tags, and the emulation tags, are all mixed together. Every time I add a tag, the machine is suggesting a slew of tags--a lot more than I need to wade through. Further, you know what happens after grades are in with nested folders? The folder " 2019" gets dragged over to "Archive" and dropped there--out of sight, out of mind. The entire set of sub-folders is not there to add clutter to my working environment. Yes, I must make a 2019 > ... set of nested folders, but I have to do that no matter what. With tags, however, those tags are always there, sitting in my way. Growing larger every semester. The list of tags grows and grows and grows. I could delete them, but then I could not find the document I might need. With an out-of-sight sub-folder I don't' trip over it every day, and I can still find it later on. With tags, I either trip over it every day, OR I forfeit the right to ever safely know I can locate that document and related documents. As you use tags, they are great--to emulate nested notebooks, however, your list of tags grows and grows and grows... They are ALWAYS there in your way. Think of it as putting your documents in a folder, but then never being able to drop the folders into a filing cabinet so they are out of the way. Instead, you must leave them out on your desk, in your work area. Not the best way to store something if you are tripping over it every time you are working...