Could you elaborate on what you'd like to see?
I would be happy to. (if it doesn't fall on deaf ears again)
First I think that the interface as being flat really matches the look we can seen in Microsoft office 2013 applications. I like the modern design direction, but it's not really polished. seems halp baked and like a bad imitation of Microsoft as it is now. I'm a designer myself so... Anyway, the interface bug I posted the screenshot of few posts back. That should have happen if it was tested properly, No other application on windows of thousands that I have seen has that. It's almost like the interface was design to fit another platform and was not tested enough. There is a small size toolbar for buttons but a very long one for search bar, It should be other way around, since it make no sense that you limit the space for buttons, but leave so much space for simple search bar. Tool bar is a place for shortcuts. limiting it's space like this is either do to lack or experience on who ever was the designer of the interface or it is something you have not polished out yet. Either way it limits the user experience and it's an simple design decision. If you are making a flat looking interface than as someone already mentioned there should be at least a small difference in the shading in between UI elements, that is UI design 101. White next to light gray next to darker gray for example. Someone already posted that. Microsoft office 2013 had the same problem when it was in beta stage, after a lot of complaints they have finally fixed that. I hope you will to. There are other UI bugs as pointed out by another user so it definitely needs more work. It is well known that windows users have been ignored for a long time, regarding information about the future release and features. All one has to do is read the forums. So when you release a beta or new version to not include reminders feature again, the most requested feature and every other platform has it already, that is an insult to the windows users. Plain and simple. For a company that has 60 mil + users that should be unacceptable in my humble opinion.
Some common features that I would have expected from a seemingly mature application such as evernote is better more intuitive word processing, you could take hints again from Microsoft word. Right mouse click and real time word editing. It's an application for taking notes after all. To not have something so crucial seems very strange to me. Every other little feature could turn into a feature request list and I don't think this is the place for it, but the things I listed above are so crucial in my opinion that I just don't see how any company, especially one so established can ignore them for so long. This is the fifth version of the program, it's not version 1.0. User based has matured enough to make this a serious app.
Anyway, I won't do a rant here out of respect for the thread but since you asked those would be my top priorities if I was part of the team. I just hope the silent treatment windows users are getting is not going to continue because it is damaging the company long term. I don't know who is in charge of PR but they are doing a bad job. Users don't need much, but one thing they definitely need, is to know that the evernote team cares about it's users. Without that there is no loyalty. And sooner or later Evernote alternative will show up that is better and treats is users with a bit more care. So I would advise the evernote PR department to take that into account. But I'm only stating the obvious.
My point is that after so much delays for win users what Evernote 5 beta offers now it's not enough. And it should be in fact called Evernote 5 alpha. Reminders are not working yet and there are big UI bugs. It's a simple UI, it's not a game or something like that so I think that such bugs cannot be a luxury. That is why I'm hesitant to consider this beta.
And one last thing. The things I wrote, I wrote because they need to be pointed out. I love evernote (v.4) even with it's flaws. It changed the way I run my life, regarding notes and organization. I don't know if I should be greatful for it but I guess I should be so thank you. I would really love to see it as something I can use for the rest of my life. But when I see Evernote so openly ignoring certain segment of users, it breaks my hearth and make me hesitant to committed fully to it. (reason why I did not go premium yet). Somebody is working hard to make the code and servers and all that right and some yahoo in charge of marketing is pissing that away with their policy. I mean YouTube video where comments are disabled, what is that. How is that, hey tell us how we can help you. It's not it's a one way commercial. Anyway, I just hope that internal part of the company can work more towards the common goal - make the app that will make all our lives easier and better. Which I was under the impression was the original intent.
I would not mind waiting for six more months to see evernote 5 but to buy that time sense of participation must exist. I'm writing this to express my thoughts. But you are only a person working here. Somehow I doubt this will reach people at the top who can make such decisions. But thank you for the opportunity to at least express it here. Maybe you or some of the readers share some of pain points with me as the user. Thank you.
Thanks for the post! Sorry this is coming as a more delayed response.
1. I really like the new flat look. We'll be going through and adding polish. Overall, we wanted to involve the community early on, so there's some known issues that we're still working through. (And features that are yet to come!) The screenshot you posted earlier is something we're still working through. I don't have the technical expertise to give if a thorough explanation so I won't even try. I do suspect though that it is the cause of many gray hairs...
2. Ah yes the search bar. How do you like the type ahead search and such? Currently that drop down menu lines up next to the snippet & cards, which seems more usable than having the search bar far away in the top right. I do appreciate the feedback, it is something that we will probably keep discussing internally.
3. We'll be tinkering at different things here and there. Again, we're out a bit on the early side. I appreciate that folks are using Skitch to point out things though
4. Again, it's about communicating with folks early and opting for early feedback. Much of what we've done so far is the backdrop for upcoming features and fixes. We're super excited about Reminders, I hope no one here thinks that we're "putting them off" or something like that.
5. Yep, plenty of work to do in general. The note editor is something that always needs more work, and we're hoping to get better coverage on that. I know we have plenty of feature requests there as well. If all goes well we'll... wait sorry can't give a roadmap
6. Instead of repeating yet again about getting early feedback, I'll talk a bit about our team structure. We've got a Windows team that is separate, independent and only works on the Windows client. So I don't think it is curious to hear that you feel as if we have been ignoring the Windows client. We've been working on it non-stop! I'm sorry you have gotten that impression. We have been juggling a V4 and a V5 client for some time, so from the public's point of view we have been a little quiet lately.
But yes, we definitely do take into account user feedback and opinions. I hope that I have a good enough track record on the forums to lend me some credibility on that front. (And I'm rather proud of my overall post count, even if I'm no where near Dave Engberg) I don't have any insight to the YouTube comments, but personally, I can see why
Anyways, now that V5 is out in the public, I hope your impression will change as we roll out new updates.
"Ah yes the search bar. How do you like the type ahead search and such? Currently that drop down menu lines up next to the snippet & cards, which seems more usable than having the search bar far away in the top right. I do appreciate the feedback, it is something that we will probably keep discussing internally."
Search bar is not address bar or like you can find in Firefox or Chrome, both search and address bar. There is less need for adress bar in Evernote becouse unlike a web browser we can see where we are simply by looking at the notebook structure on the left. So the search bar has no purpose being so long. Title bar on the other hand has one important function. To give quick access to the common tool and you also made it customizable. When a user adds more than few buttons they don't fit so they disappear and a user have to click on little arrows to find them. That is the same as diging trough the menus to do the same things, thus defeating the purpose of having a quick access to the tools that should be whole point of toolbar. And off course the search bar is just wasting screen real estate since I don't expect that many people will type a sentence that long in order to find it. But even if they do it should be like any other form or search field. This are all basics of UI design, I hate to speculate how did this happen in the first place but it is certainly something that a professional company should not allow itself to do. I would imaging the goal is to lift standards, not lower them. Other alternative for the serach bar is to make it adjustable in lenght so that the user can fit all their toolbar buttons if they want to. users will appropriate the most two things.
"Again, it's about communicating with folks early and opting for early feedback. Much of what we've done so far is the backdrop for upcoming features and fixes. We're super excited about Reminders, I hope no one here thinks that we're "putting them off" or something like that."
Not sure it's early enough. Windows users have been asking for any feedback for some time without any answer. How much will the Evernote listen to the users now, remains to be seen. But I thank YOU for listening now. I just hope you can convince the rest of the Evernote team that some of these changes are needed.
" We've been working on it non-stop! I'm sorry you have gotten that impression. We have been juggling a V4 and a V5 client for some time, so from the public's point of view we have been a little quiet lately."
My point exactly. You have amazingly loyal and numerous users, that is gold in any industry. The fact that you are working hard is something people would understand I am certain of it. But when Evernote is so openly ignoring them and not answering any questions than the feeling they have is same as mine. All the buzz and new features for Apple users and even other platforms but when all the users who use windows ask "Hey, what about us?" Evernote is silent as grave.
People will back you up if you need more time or testing or anything, people will even pay for it, but all they want is two things. To FEEL understood and to feel empowered. Win users didn't really feel empowered.
"Anyways, now that V5 is out in the public, I hope your impression will change as we roll out new updates."
I would really like that, but after previous experiences my expectations are much lower now. Please, I would appreciate a pleasant surprise.
Your actual criticisms of the new UI are fine; I've touched on some of them myself during the early alpha releases.This one (the one that's not related to the actual software) is off the mark. First off, Evernote does not, in general, give out information about future releases and features for *any* platform. It's a company policy, and it's no different with regard to the Windows client. How do I know this? Plain and simple: I read the forums, a lot. All platforms have users here who think that their favorite platforms are being ignored by Evernote (or worse, I guess, that Evernote favors other clients more): Mac users, iOS users, Android users. And yes, Windows users. Well guess what? It is not an insult to Windows users. Or to Mac users. Or iOS users. Or Android users. It's just the way that they run their business.
If you think that leaving reminders out of the WIndows version is an insult to Windows users, then I guess that you also think that leaving out features from other clients that exist in the Windows version is an insult to the users of those clients? How long did some Mac users pine for vertical list view? How about the mobile platforms? They can only dream about note editing that does as much as the Windows platform does (of course, the Windows users know that that's not perfect). Get a little sense of perspective on this: all of their clients have some strengths relative to the others, and all have their weaknesses. It's not an insult; it's due to the way that their client developer teams are run, independent of the others.
Would I like more openness about their future plans? Dunno, I wouldn't mind it, I guess, but then again I base my use of Evernote on what's shipping on the platforms I am using today, not what I wish it will be like tomorrow.
". First off, Evernote does not, in general, give out information about future releases and features for *any* platform. It's a company policy, and it's no different with regard to the Windows client."
Well my criticism is with the "Company Policy". You only confirm that.
I'm a subscriber to evernote newsletter and evernote youtube channel. For quite a few months I have been getting regular updates. All were for other platforms mainly for Apple platforms. Not one was for windows. Over and over again. Event when they show tips and tricks in Evernote blog, not one was on Windows platform. I too have spend time reading forums and what I found was a lot of questions and no answers, so I guess the "company policy" is in fact what I'm legitimately criticizing. You being the Evangelist for the company are not helping. On the contrary you confirm it.
"Would I like more openness about their future plans? Dunno, I wouldn't mind it, I guess, but then again I base my use of Evernote on what's shipping on the platforms I am using today, not what I wish it will be like tomorrow."
You are also a user, but so am I. Company trust is often based on transparency. Especially in today's age of social media and fast communication. To be transparent is a competitive advantage unlike in the past. That is old school. I too release software and had to learn to work with clients and customers. The things that I have learned are:
Always be transparent and let users feel understood and empowers, in return they will provide evangelism* - small price to pay for such a big gain.
Manage expectations well. If you deliver as much as promised, they are satisfied but are not raving fan. If you deliver less the expected they feel disappointment and talk to their friends, that is bad press. But if you promise something and you deliver more than that, you have raving fan. Managing expectations is crucial. It makes or breaks the company.
Client, user, customer is always "right". Old school wisdom.
*expect when an evangelist is actually confirming the company policy
At first I was talking everyone into using Evernote, so in an effect I was Evangelist as well. And if I did not know about the company policy and just use the program I would still recommend it and often I still do. But knowing the "company policy" for which I do not feel is right, when I evangelize I worn people of that because I feel it will cost the company in the long run and I do not officially want to be associated with such treatment of it's users. Evernote is an organization that consists of more than one user. So some employees here are obviously instructed not to provide all the information. Unfortunately you are always likely to find a proverbial bottleneck at the top.
What Evernote is doing is nothing new. You can see it in almost every supermarket you go or fast food franchises. People on the top make a policy that is not user/customer oriented. And they put low paying workers with no decision making powers in direct contact with the customer - on the front desk. So when you the customer have a complain you can't get to the people on the top, you are stuck at front desk. And the person on the front desk has been prohibited from helping the customer, so often you hear. "Sorry Sir or madam. It's our company policy not to give that information away. Would you like some french fries with that? " Guess what the customer will do. First they will tell their friends about their pain point and second the will go to their first competitors if there is one. Long story short, it's short term gains traded for long term longevity of the company. And if you study business history you will see that no one is to big to fail and no one is to small to succeed. After all Evernote was once small.
Just my 2 cents.