John in Michigan USA

I am running EN 10.71.2-win-ddl-public (...ending 3604) on Windows 11. I just now checked, Evernote has no updates available for me. To reproduce: Exit Evernote, reboot, and open Evernote From the home screen, without clicking anyplace else, single click on a note so it expands to fill the full screen (except for the left hand navigation bar). Note that this is not the same as opening a note in a separate, stand-alone window. Click the Note Menu. Observe that the item "Open Note in New Window" is not greyed out. On the right pane of your screen, click in the body or title of the note you clicked in step 2. Try to use the Note Menu, the item "Open Note in New Window" command. It isn't greyed out, but clicking on it does NOT open the current note in a new window Make substantial changes to the existing note. I found that a couple of spaces plus a newline are enough. Now the Note Menu -> "Open Note in New Window" command works! Frustratingly, Step 5 doesn't fail every time. From the main screen, try highlighting (selecting without opening) different notes, then use the Note menu -> "Open Note in New Window" command. Eventually you will trigger the bug This bug is particularly annoying because there appears to be no other way of consistently opening a note viewed from the main window in a new window. Ideally, note links embedded in a note body should have a right-click option to open in a new window instead of opening in the existing window.

The number one quality of life issue for me is bugs, most importantly the many problems of the note editor, and the stale search results. Lack of regression testing (i.e. ensuring that one bug fix doesn't trigger another bug) is another biggie. Anytime a longstanding bug is fixed, it is a disruption to the users' workflow. The user has to re-train themselves to stop doing the (typically annoying and time-consuming) bug work-around. That re-training process is only worth it when the bug fix doesn't introduce new bugs or re-activate old bugs, which in turn require users to learn or re-learn whatever the workaround is for the new/re-activated bug. Often this work-around requires many painful hours of re-visiting old notes to apply the work-around so that the notes are usable in the new, post-fix environment.

I have 11 years invested in this product. It is absolutely worth worrying about what 'may' happen. Granted, claims about "Writing on the wall" are certainly a form of speculation, but there is a clear trend towards charging for everything. EN might continue to offer some sort of free experience, but with greater and greater restrictions as time goes by. For example, they might replace unlimited free trial with 30, 60, or 90 day free trial, or storage/bandwidth/other limitations. Now that free VC money is getting scarce, the days of free services are drawing to a close IMO. Everyone remembers how Google and others used to offer free "unlimited" storage in the cloud "forever". These days it is rare to get more than c. 1-10 GB for free from a reputable cloud storage service. As long as EN don't change the policy of letting free users upgrade for a short period of time, it would remain possible to get your content off the service at a reasonable cost. Besides, if posting about clear trends and the writing on the wall causes Evernote to reassure us publicly that they will never change that policy, well, that's never a guarantee but it does make it harder for them to change that policy. That's a win in my book!

That is indeed the current policy, but IMO the writing is on the wall, we should assume it is only a matter of time before that policy too is changed.

I admit I don't understand how to use Reminders, when reminders don't always generate notifications when they're supposed to, and searches like: remindertime:* -remindertime:day+1 -reminderdonetime:* -tag:"1-Now" ...that have worked right for ages no longer work correctly. Currently you have to wait for the search results to update, and even then, they match on notes with reminders due tomorrow! The "-remindertime:day+1" syntax is supposed to exclude any reminders with due dates > 24 hours from now, and consistently functioned that way in the past. I can't be bothered to do meticulous, detailed testing each time a new version of EN for Win comes out, to try and figure out what's changed and what new syntax might work to accomplish what I want. That is called regression testing, and it is the job of the company, not the user! Even so, I would gladly volunteer my time as regression tester, if only I had access to the real bug tracking system and some sort of commitment from EN to not distribute software that breaks long-established features that people depend on. For that reason I refuse to even consider tasks, as my preliminary testing revealed a host of problems. Reminders and tasks are just decorations (pretty formatting) if the underlying functionality isn't reliable. Not sure what CMR is. If it is CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) well then...if EN support really is dog-fooding their own product, trying to use it as a CRM or ticketing system when it is broken for that, it's no wonder they are forever overwhelmed!

I've long since stopped reporting bugs to support, because it seemed pointless educating them when the make claims that are implausible, or sometimes, provably false. Here on the forums, I get a much more reliable picture of what really works, what doesn't work, and how things things are supposed to work, than I ever got from support. Has support improved since the last time I used it? The statement "chat support is currently unavailable due to the high volume of support requests" was supposed to be temporary. instead, it has become the new normal. I have ample reason to believe that it is also true for non-chat support. That tells me all I need to know. Sad face.

I believe under the previous regimes (Ian Small and before) the business model is to bet that the existing user base is locked in to the product sufficiently that they will tolerate price increases in spite of no net increase in the core value proposition. The strategy for new users seems to be an uninspired "me too" approach, i.e. more of the same. Notion does tasks better than Evernote? So we're going to "borrow" their excellent design and graft it onto our product. But there's a problem: Evernote was originally not going to have reminders. The market made them give up that vision, but the reminder feature they implemented years ago was total kluge. The recent promise was that tasks would be reminders done right. Instead we've got two redundant task/reminder systems, both with overlapping, confusing terminology, and both of them fundamentally broken IMO in that you can't rely on them. It is too easy for a task/reminder to fall through the cracks. Search results for tasks are glitchy. Sharing is glitchy. Are these really the results? Or if I stop typing for what feels like ages, and get my team members to stop typing, will the search results finally catch up with reality? Evernote editor tries to be "smart" and helpful, but instead marks completed tasks as incomplete and vice versa. Tasks can be embedded in notes, and editing an embedded object counts as an update to that note, but completing or editing an embedded task somehow *isn't* considered an update to the note that is hosting the task! At least on the features chart we can put a check mark next to the "tasks" feature and make it look like we're keeping up with the competition. We're going to future proof the product and hope no-one notices that these new features, just like the old ones, are implemented just to check a checkbox on a sales presentation; they are not really meant to be relied upon. Evernote needs to eat their own dog food! Sadly, that is the the business model here.

Sad to hear that this is still a problem. I don't center many images, but I was using the image-inside-a-table work-around to indent my images, and prevent them from auto-resizing to max size. The pre v.10/RTE notes still have problems converting to post v.10/RTE, but in my experience once you're on the new note system, the standard indent command (from the toolbar or format menu) works great for images, and the "display as Title" feature solves the image auto-resize problem. I had assumed that image centering had also been fixed. I guess it hasn't? Or perhaps it was fixed but then regressed?

TL;DR: I stopped reading at "Future-proofing". Longer: Future-proofing is a marketing buzzword and in most cases indicates a focus on forecasts, sales quotas, etc. instead of a focus on delighting the user. Rather than trying to anticipate the future, which is impossible, focus on customer experience. The new code base was supposed to reduce bugs and make the UX more consistent and logical. Instead, we get buzzwords, new bugs replacing old bugs, old, dead bugs coming back to life as zombies, features come and go with no rhyme, reason, or warning. What is Evernote's core promise? It is the elephant, which NEVER FORGETS. All new features should be on hold until data integrity can be assured. No more data or formatting loss, no more broken links, no more undo that breaks your document, no more stale search results, stop relying on async programming to fix slow code.

Any browser extension that requires what Firefox calls the "Access your data for all websites" permission (other browsers have a similar permission) has the ability to track your browsing habits. The Evernote Web Clipper requires that permission, as would any full-featured clipping or bookmarking extension. Based on Evernote's reputation, I am willing to trust them to not write an extension that would abuse this permission and track me on sites / pages that I don't tell the extension to clip or bookmark. I could change my mind on that, but I would need specific evidence that they abuse this permission. @Everuser1234 do you have any evidence that the extension is monitoring your browsing even when you aren't using it to bookmark a page? Have you tried disabling it, then when you actually want a bookmarklet, briefly re-enabling it again?

It sounds like you are needing to rotate a PDF file ("page") inside an Evernote note. But maybe you are trying to rotate an image? The rotate function is still build-in to Evernote, but it requires more clicks than it used to. IMO this is a design decision that allows Evernote to make their software more modular, which should make Evernote less buggy and more consistent on different devices. Have you tried https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005057? If you have already tried the help page and are still having trouble, you should make that clear in your original post, and also tell us exactly what device(s) you're using and what type of object(s) you are trying to rotate.

My experience with Evernote sharing: If you expect it to work like, say, Google Docs, where sharing mostly "just works" and is intuitive once you understand the fundamentals, you will be disappointed. There may be some scenarios in which Evernote's often un-intuitive, kludgy, ad-hoc and poorly documented approach to sharing is useful. For example, if your team is already on Evernote and is thinking of leaving it because of lack of sharing features, Evernote's sharing is probably good enough that you can avoid the inevitable pain of migrating. On the other hand, if you are a team new to Evernote that is trying to use it specifically for sharing, you'll be disappointed. Bending Spoons and RTE (real time editing) could be the beginning of Evernote finally getting it's sharing act together...only time will tell.

It sounds like you've logged in to your main account automatically for long enough that you forgot you once had one or more different accounts. Now you have a chicken-before-the-egg problem: Which username/email is the current, paid account and which ones aren't? If that is the core of your problem, I'd suggest something like password recovery / account recovery. That too is something that free support or the forums (search is your friend) can help with. Note that if you've for example lost access to your main account's email (or user name, form of payment, etc., depending on how you set it up) you would consult that service or company, not Evernote.

Well that's something, a start. Four days after release and it is still not available to me for automatic updating. Could try the manual update from https://evernote.com/download but as we've seen so many times before, new downloads are likely to have more bugs than what they replace, occasionally are unusable. My policy has been to wait 1-4 weeks before applying upgrades if at all possible. It *is* nice to see a thank you, but for me the verdict is out until I have some feedback from others on the new release. From the release notes of 10.61: "We included the same fix for slow note creation that we issued on mobile last week. Desktop was in much better shape but why not" Translated: Creating notes from the desktop was slow, maybe a tiny bit faster than on mobile, we hope, but likely haven't done much formal testing to isolate the problem; we've rolled out the slow note creation fix to both mobile and desktop, even though we don't understand the underlying problem enough to explain why mobile was worse. This fix may improve mobile, or it may make both desktop and mobile have problems. You'll let us know? Missing: Thank you thank you THANK YOU to our paid subscribers who are paying for the privilege of testing our code using their own, live customer data in production, so we don't have to. Hopefully they backed up their entire DB before "testing" but who really knows? That's on them and we don't make it easy or guarantee that backup strategies (some requiring 3rd party components) that worked last week will still work this week. To show our appreciation for these suckers persistent geniuses, we're working on ways to give them perks or a discount. We tried that invite-only Beta preview but they bailed when they realized it wasn't really a preview; many new features and "fixes" skipped the preview entirely and went straight into production, where some problems were caused that could have been spotted and fixed in the preview we skipped. We'll do better. Maybe. OK I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point but there are too many days when it feels like I'm not exaggerating at all. For example, in the three (3) days since 10.61 was released, there have been 5 patches and we are now at v. 10.61.5. I am delighted to report, I've managed to skip 4 failed updates and counting! This isn't a release, this is beta testing at a rate of > 1 new build per night. If only there was a way to do test software on live users without risking regular users and corporate installs </sarc>

Exactly. There's still no way for free users to submit a bug other than feedback/feature request, and we all know where those go. Worse, Evernote treats free (and paid!) like Evernote's own beta (even alpha!) testers, with minimal or no warning, when it is convenient for Evernote. In return, we get nothing (rate of new/regressed bugs >> rate of bug fixes, so the net rate of bug fixing is negative; new, un-neccesary, mandatory, half-baked features introduce still more bugs that persist). If they can't do better with bugs, they could at least give some sort of simple acknowledgement or dare I say thanks in return for the work we do. But that might mean acknowledging specific bugs in e.g. the release notes, which they won't do because they know their "fixed" bugs will likely return (regression) and it would be that much harder to remain in denial or complacency about them. Better to keep the community guessing, and blaming themselves for having expectations that exceed what EN can actually deliver (not that it prevents them from making promises to deliver!)

...if that new version is available to you. I can't seem to get it. Also, at the risk of beating a dead horse, this seems like yet another example of frustrating UI glitches and/or RTE/sync conflicts/bugs as described at:

My impression is that you are probably experiencing some combination of client UI display bugs (you update a note, but the very same client app you are using continues to display as if the note hadn't been updated until some asynchronous thread wakes up and does its thing), and RTE/sync bugs. Both of these problems can cause notes to duplicate, be deleted, display improperly, or otherwise glitch. The only workaround I can offer is to go slow, check and re-check everything, while hoping that EN manages to resolve the bugs and improve the user experience. Edit: My most recent example of what I'm calling client UI display bugs is, in EN for Win ver. 10.60.4 I'll change the title of a note, exit the software, re-open it, pull up a saved search that will include the note I just edited. In the search results, the note still displays with the old title; if I open that note it displays the correct, edited title, but if I close that note and wait up to 30 seconds the search results will still display the unedited title, eventually they refresh. 😠It drives me nuts waiting to see if my edits are really saved (sometimes this display glitch can be a sign that they didn't save) or waiting for the search results to update so I can feel confident moving on to the next edit, or if I should give up, give the client a few minutes of idle time so it can catch up 😠 As to the confusion about stacks vs. notebooks....getting old is certainly a part of it 😛 but Evernote's unpredictable UI changes, bizarre design "decisions" that seem like obvious bugs reclassified as features, and the acknowledged bugs themselves, can collectively induce a sort of user despair and 🧠 brain fog 🌫️, in which one overlooks simple, reasonably designed elements that haven't changed in a while such as the difference between notebooks and stacks. I don't think that failure to realize you'd selected a stack in your screenshot, rather than a notebook, explains much about the problems you documented.

I've seen no evidence that a new installation "...will get faster and better as time goes on". I sometimes see a modest performance gain, but only until the next couple of app updates. Based on my experience with app updates, they are "updating your database / this may take a few minutes" (an actual message on my Moto phone Android today) with every 2nd or 3rd app update. Today's update is only special in that it actually *disclosed* to me that it was updating my database in some important way, a way that could account for the fact that the app is again slow after today's update. Many database updates happen silently, with a message only displaying briefly, if at all!! the first time you launch the app after update. It is safe to assume that future updates will keep needing to rebuild the database, and this app will stay slow for the foreseeable future. Slowness includes having to rebuild other dynamic lists, such as the menu commands that displays a list of saved searches or shortcuts. Constant updating is still the normal experience with this app. Constant updating means the app is always rebuilding, so it is always janky, slow, and frustrating to use. And you have to use it excessively, because you're constantly making changes, waiting for slow RTE to sync, then testing to see if your changes really did save. Mostly, they do save, but the failure rate (c. 10-20% at times) is enough that you ave to check every important edit you make! Only once this app major version is "mature" (i.e. they stop issuing major updates and start talking about replacing it) will we be in a position to evaluate if "it gets faster and better as time goes on" and if these improvements are worth the inevitable new or regressed bugs (re-)introduced along the way. As this is not my first rodeo, I know better than to try and document those bugs to EN. Most bug reports vanish without a trace, and most bug fixes are detected by "happy accident". Meanwhile, internal links from legacy pages do not survive many of these database upgrades. I fix them as I find them, only to have them break again with no warning, due to yet another "upgrade". This is not OK!

EN. Please show us you can make persistent bugs temporary, and, here's the catch, without introducing new ones. It is called <<test di regressione>> or so I'm told. For example, this display glitch has been there since whatever version of the EN app for Android was current when I made this screen grab on 2023-07-14. Yes, it's still appearing today, at least 1/day, just about every day. I've almost become so fond of it, I'd almost prefer you don't fix it. It's only a display glitch. At least you won't be introducing new bugs when you force us to use the fix, without warning, and without regard for what might break. Go fast, break things only works if you fix more than you break. Edit: Yes, I've updated the app, currently running 10.52.2

I agree. There are a number of people with significant followings on social media who publish pro-Evernote videos, how-to's, etc. There's plenty of positive to mention, but unfortunately, reviewers and productivity mavens act as if there are no negatives anyone would need to be aware of. An ethical reviewer should at least mention, if only in passing, that users must expect more than the usual number of bugs, for longer than the typical duration between attempts to fix. Evernote has a lot going for it, but they likely lose certain customers simply because expectations haven't been set properly.

I encountered this problem today when looking at a note from years ago (pre-EN v. 10). All photos were JPG's. The work-around was to make a single change to the note body. I put the cursor at the end of a paragraph and hit space bar, then erased it. That forced the note to convert from the old format to the new format. When converting, Evernote put copies of the photos to right after the photo placeholders that display the "Image could not be rendered properly" error message. After a few minutes, and presumably a sync, the placeholders themselves are now rendered as photos, meaning that every photo appeared twice (once where the placeholder had been, and a second time immediately after the placeholder). Finally, I removed the duplicate photos that were created during the note coversion.

They likely did basic security to encrypt and authenticate the RTE packets as they dart about the Internets. My point is, based on the bug reports and the difficulty resolving them, the code base is still a hot mess and now has an even bigger footprint than before. And messy code + large footprint is far, far more likely to have unanticipated security gaps.

Sadly, this is consistent with Evernote's long-term, baffling and inconsistent design choices about what constitutes a change in a note, which in turn determines if the note history component saves a new version of the note. For example, changing the body text or title is considered a change, even if it is just a change to formatting such as changing a single word from normal to bold. However, checking off an item on a checklist, which causes the entire item to be formatted as strikethru, is not considered a change that should trigger an update to note history! Not to mention, they get the semantics all wrong -- marking an item as done ought to be treated as a change in content, regardless of what formatting changes it induces. This bizzare design decision seems to be the case with the newer tasks feature. Changing some note properties or metadata is treated as a change. Other properties are sync'd (or not!) but changing them does not trigger a new version in note history, nor does the UI indicate that the note is in need of sync.

Some of the lag is due to various hacks than EN uses to upgrade your notes, search indexes, etc. on the fly. I found that this conversion process is inconsistent, it will properly convert some parts of a note, convert other parts with significant errors (including loss of data or loss of formatting that was important for context), and leave other parts of the same note unconverted. Once your frequently accessed notes all all fully converted, you may notice a modest decrease in lag. Some of the lag from early v. 10 releases was improved in more recent releases. So far, RTE has noticably increased my lag, and cause data loss and other problems, but if the past is any guide, it will become less laggy. Overall, I would never expect EN to perform as well as it did when (for example) I started using it in 2011. They keep promising that it will, just be patient. It won't. Us users have to learn to live with this, or leave.

I agree Win 10 or 11 is a important security improvement over Win 7 or 8. I can't help thinking that EN's RTE (Real Time Editing) is a security nightmare. Based on my (limited, but telling) experience so far the teams, sharing, and RTE code base is a mess and only getting messier as they scramble to debug it live and in real time.