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John in Michigan USA

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Posts posted by John in Michigan USA

  1. Now running:

    10.79.3-win-ddl-public (20240307101007)
    Editor: v177.6.1
    Service: v1.95.0

    ...and I'm no longer able to reproduce this bug, i.e. the UI no longer freezes after I cut or copy the selected text. I'm leaving this post as "unsolved" while I monitor things to see if the bug comes back.

    As a side note, it seems an odd design choice that the "Create event" pop-up is only triggered when I cut or copy (Ctrl-X or Ctrl-C) the selected text.

    Given that "/" is the prompt to display the "add element" pick-list containing 13 elements you can choose from, the most intuitive way to narrow down this list to a single choice, the event element, would be to type "/5:49 PM"...but that doesn't trigger any pop-up. The second most intuitive way to invoke the "Create event" pop-up would be to simply type "5:49 PM" and have it automatically pop up, but then disappear if you keep typing...although I could see how this might be disruptive. Alternatively, the "Create event" pop-up could appear when you highlight "5:49 PM", this would save you the trouble of right-clicking...although currently the only element the right-click menu lets you create in this context is a link, the other possibly relevant element(s) such as event aren't available by right-clicking on selected text that matches the hh:mm or hh:mm AM/PM format. IMO the least intuitive way to invoke the "Create event" popup (without having to pick from a long list of elements) is to cut or copy the selected text.

    Also, whatever keystrokes trigger the pop-up, it should probably display a shortened pick-list consisting of the event element and the link element, since any text could be a link.

  2. On 3/7/2024 at 1:29 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

    I repeat:

    Evernote does not have a bug here, let alone a chronic problem, if another program is monitoring the clipboard looking for specific material. Check your Outlook settings--they may have done an update in the background and turned a clipboard sniffer on.

    As before, I don't have outlook installed, so I have no Outlook settings screen to check. These days, not having an app installed doesn't mean Microsoft isn't messing around with settings or the clip board behind the scenes, but Evernote is also actively rolling out an updated calendar and outlook integration feature. It could easily be the case that EN is messing around with the clipboard (or whatever is causing this).

    Think of it from a Microsoft support POV: you're asking them to prove an non-installed app isn't messing with Evernote. How would they do that? If I were them, the first thing I'd ask would be, are there apps other than Evernote that are seeing this problem? The answer is, I haven't tested every app that has an outlook integration or uses the clipboard, but of the ones I use, only EN freezes. Also, it is Evernote, not Microsoft, that raises the "Create Event" popup and populates it with choices. Outlook is only one of the choices, and I documented that it is a problem even if you click on something simple like Notepad. It seems obvious that EN isn't correctly handling the case of a user wanting none of the options on the pop-up bar. Even if something changed in Outlook or Windows that triggers this, it is the Evernote UI that freezes for 30 seconds. This seems much more likely to be an Evernote problem.

    Anyways, thanks again for trying to work with me on this. I'm just going to monitor things and hope it fixes itself.

  3. On 2/18/2024 at 3:18 AM, PinkElephant said:

    It is not the Clipper - it’s the site that actively tries to block clipping.

    This is an eternal cat & mouse game.

    You could report it by support ticket, including the website that gives you problems.

    Perhaps more complete answer: All sites try to block any access by third parties to stuff behind the paywall. EN's decision to implement their clipper as an indirect query to the site (i.e. Clipper does a query from their server to the target of the clip, rather than from your browser to the target of the clip) has pros and cons. EN can temporarily copy your credential that lets your device read the article, but sites may not honor that credential when it is used from EN's server instead of from your device. This cat-and-mouse game is one of the cons. Clipper still one of the best parts of EN, IMO, but it various by target page, by client, and by other factors that are hard to pin down.

    • Like 1
  4. @N Allen Excellent points.

    Evernote is chock full of "helpful" bits of automatic editor code that are supposed to save you a few keystrokes, in a pitiful attempt to imitate features from world-class editors and word processors. These bits of code misfire waaaay too often, and when they do, it is devilishly hard to fix and to keep the fix fixed.

    World class editors building these little helpers made mistakes like this in the early days and we got Microsoft's Clippit. What saved them from the same disaster EN now has, was fanatical adherence to some great design features:

    1. Every autocorrect, autoformat, or other change to the user input *must* have undo support. All the user has to do is spot the code misfire, and hit undo. This isn't just a convenience for the user, although that alone would be enough justification. It also lets developers track how many times their bits of helpful code misfire, and it helps de-obfuscate logic errors in their code that are causing the mis-fire in the first place. If their code isn't savvy enough to save the state of the target string (and also save the relevant context) before the autofix, the autofix code is NOT ready for production!
       
    2. These auto-correct features must be configurable, so a user or dev can turn them on and off easily. Without this, fault isolation and debugging is much, much harder.
       
    3. There should be a way of marking a string off-limits for auto-correction. For example, once the user undoes an autocorrection, the editor should mark the relevant string so that auto-correct leaves that string alone. This can be tricky, but it is doable. Some editors have refined this feature so well, they no longer need to expose the "mark off-limits" feature to the end-user. The editor is smart enough to figure out when to leave well alone, and even learns over time.
  5. Yet another formatting bug. Evernote, your note parsing code is *****. Instead of trying to make it be helpful and save typing, it creates no end of trouble. SIMPLIFY the code base, write clean code, and TEST IT. It is pitiful how you poorly imitate well designed and implemented features from your competition just so you can check the box that says yeah we've got this feature too. Do you really think this creates real value for the company?

    Once again, taking bets on:

    • How long before a fix is attempted?
    • How long before the fix is reverted back to the bugged state? See for example
    • How many iterations of this seemingly endless cycle before a fix finally makes it into production?
    • How many times will volunteers have to guess at whether we're supposed to evaluate a fix, update this topic, document a bug reversion, update this topic, all with no earthly clue if that feedback is being heard?

    To reproduce:

    1. Create a new note
    2. Type a time in format in HH:MM AM/PM format for example 5:49 PM
    3. Select what you just typed
    4. Hit Ctrl+X to cut it into the Windows cut/paste buffer
    5. See the attached .mp4 for a movie of what happens. Basically the "Create Event" popup appears. If you don't want to create an event, there's no obvious way to cancel it. I clicked on a blank part of the note. This caused the popup to disappear, so it would seem this is an intended way to cancel the pop-up. Cancelling it this way leaves the note frozen for OVER 30 SECONDS. In the movie you will see the cursor move as I try to type text. I am unable to click on the "Suggested Templates" section either. Finally sometime times out and the buffered text appears. I am unable to keep recording the screen to show you how long the note stays frozen because the resulting .mp4 is too large to upload to this forum.
    6. There is a very annoying work-around. From the "Create Event" popup, pick Notepad and then delete (exit without saving) the resulting calendar.ics that is created in Notepad.

    10.77.3-win-ddl-public (20240221121132)
    Editor: v177.3.2
    Service: v1.93.3

  6. On 2/20/2024 at 4:32 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

    I'm also on 10.76.2, but still see the issue. My release notes do not give me that level of detail about editor, etc.

    Interesting. I got that version info from Help -> About Evernote. The dialog box that pops up has all the detail at the bottom, along with a copyright notice. Double-click anywhere in the dialog box and you should get a little notice "Copied!" and the version info and copyright notice is now in your Windows paste buffer.

    The only difference I see is, I'm on Win 11 Pro, you're on Win 10 Home. It's hard to imagine why that should matter for this feature.

  7. ...and IT'S BACK or at least the bug was only fixed superficially, did not fix for all scenarios.

    To reproduce: Find or create an existing note with a reminder in the future that looks something like the note in the screenshot. Click the reminder in lower left to open the reminder dialog box. The button marked "PM" breaks the right margin of the dialog box.

    Screenshot2024-02-23132414.thumb.png.5d063047dd5541900860f58cf76cfdc1.png

    Windows 11, EN client 10.76.2-win-ddl-public (20240214093250), Editor: v176.53.0, Service: v1.92.0

    This bug used to appear after creating a new, blank note, but it no longer does. It does not appear if you are adding a reminder to an existing note that does not already have a reminder. I found two existing notes with existing reminders and the bug appeared on both of them. YMMV.

    Come on, Evernote! I believe in you! <-- possibly sarcastic, we'll see.

  8. On 2/9/2024 at 11:39 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

    Well, again for reasons beyond my understanding, I tried it again, with v. 10.74.1, and this time it finally failed: with a note opened expanded, the items in the Note menu were grayed out. As a special bonus, I was upgraded to the horrid new UI without asking for it. I updated to 10.75.2 by downloading from evernote.com, and the Note menu is still broken with an expanded note. Fortunately, I never use that menu anyway--which is why I feel pretty grumpy at myself for doing this test, since now I'm stuck with the ugly, unreadable future of Evernote. So yes, it's broken; no, it doesn't matter to me; and @#$@, I've got the new UI. I hope whoever this matters to will pound on the doors of support until they acknowledge it.

    Thanks for being persistent. I suppose I should have made clear, I don't think a fresh PC reboot is necessary to reproduce the problem. I put that step in there because I didn't want whoever triages bugs to think: we can't consistently reproduce this bug so probably it isn't a pure EN problem. It must be caused by some subtle interaction between EN and Windows or some other app, or something that happens only after running the EN client for a long time. Those bugs are hard to slay, so we're going to hope it goes away on its own, or our users learn the work-around and stop complaining.

    I still don't understand why EN can't make available some sort of bug status/tracking insight to trusted, long time community leaders like you @Dave-in-Decatur. It would  help all of us be less cynical about the bug reporting process and EN in general.

    • Like 2
  9. On 2/9/2024 at 1:39 PM, eric99 said:

    "... Evernote's updated user interface includes a beautiful and simplified design, enhanced readability, and a rejuvenated visual identity with a modern color palette and vibrant patterns..." ???  https://evernote.com/blog/new-ui-2024

     

    I missed that blog entry, just read it. In the Before and After, I don't see a single After screencap that looks better than the Before screencap, just different and in some aspects less friendly (lack of contrast, too much whitespace, etc.). I guess we're all supposed to have massive, power-hungry monitors with curved corners so we can afford all that whitespace.

    • Like 6
  10. If there's been a lot of work behind the scenes on the back end, a case could be made for an unnecessary, superficial UI refresh in order to emphasize that the product has changed and invite people to re-evaluate the more substantial, less visible changes. Sadly, other than RTE (real-time editing), which is interesting but poorly done -- notes sometimes painfully slow to update, stale search results, no documentation that I can find on exactly how users are made aware of editing conflicts for the async part of RTE -- there have been no substantial updates to the back-end, or increases in overall quality, to justify unneeded or even counter-productive changes to the UI.

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1
  11. 🤢 🤮 😠 :angry: 🤣

    Now running the Windows client 10.74.1-win-ddl-public (ending 3748). The fix that appeared in 10.73.4, a fix I discovered only 6 days ago, is now broken again.

    And, I guarantee you there are dozens if not hundreds of other bugs of this type that have been fixed and reverted with no rhyme or reason. Does management even know how much dev time they are wasting, and customer goodwill they are squandering?

    I also guarantee you Evernote is corrupting your notes. If you haven't noticed it, it's still probably happening. Do a full export and backup, and keep old backups as long as you can afford to, you never know when the note you created a couple of years ago will appear broken right when you need it.

    It's like buying an American car in the late 1970's. I remember Mom, Dad and I so looking forward to her first new car in a decade, that she paid for herself working part time as a psychologist while raising me and doing her share of the work around the house (and some of mine, too, since they wanted me to study). The dealership said the car had arrived from the factory but wouldn't be ready for another week. Dad stopped by towards the end of that week and found Mom's car in the service bay on a lift. Turns out the factory, instead of installing the complete brake system, had left a vital part, still wrapped in plastic, on the floor of the car, so they could check the box that the inventory was delivered. The dealer had to eat the cost of finishing building the car, and we had to wait even longer than promised.

    Now you understand why I rant against Evernote. They are their own worst enemy! Multi-platform software *is* hard. But regression testing is simple, and can be automated. You just have to have the discipline to do it. If EN would get their act together this could be a world-class product instead of a mediocrity that relies on user lock-in for its business model.

  12. Thanks @Mike P that's a good tip but highlights what I've been saying about EN is still true.

    They have a 3 dots menu feature added ad-hoc on top of the original, classic menu system. The New Window menu item on the former is implemented differently than the New Menu item on the later. The programmer who wrote that, and the manager that approved it, frankly suck at their jobs and should be ashamed. Rushed feature with no regards for the problems it would cause to maintain it. Oh that New Window bug, tell support we fixed it. Now support ignores all new reports of the problem and devs never know that there's a 2nd, separate bugged New Window command. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

  13. I am running EN 10.71.2-win-ddl-public (...ending 3604) on Windows 11. I just now checked, Evernote has no updates available for me.

    To reproduce:

    1. Exit Evernote, reboot, and open Evernote
    2. From the home screen, without clicking anyplace else, single click on a note so it expands to fill the full screen (except for the left hand navigation bar). Note that this is not the same as opening a note in a separate, stand-alone window.
    3. Click the Note Menu. Observe that the item "Open Note in New Window" is not greyed out.
    4. On the right pane of your screen, click in the body or title of the note you clicked in step 2.
    5. Try to use the Note Menu, the item "Open Note in New Window" command. It isn't greyed out, but clicking on it does NOT open the current note in a new window
    6. Make substantial changes to the existing note. I found that a couple of spaces plus a newline are enough.
    7. Now the Note Menu -> "Open Note in New Window" command works!

    Frustratingly, Step 5 doesn't fail every time. From the main screen, try highlighting (selecting without opening) different notes, then use the Note menu -> "Open Note in New Window" command. Eventually you will trigger the bug

    This bug is particularly annoying because there appears to be no other way of consistently opening a note viewed from the main window in a new window.

    Ideally, note links embedded in a note body should have a right-click option to open in a new window instead of opening in the existing window.

  14. On 12/29/2023 at 7:00 AM, gazumped said:

    There's a (fairly reliable) rumour that Evernote is looking for suggestions for "Quality of Life" features that might be added in future - QoL meaning 'what makes using Evernote easier' - which IMHO is exactly what Filterize did.  So I asked my friend Bard AI to list out all its features.  Not sure about some of the list - I know I didn't use much of Filterize,  but some of this is brand new to me.  I've sent this to Evernote and you can read the 3 pages from Bard in the attachment.  I'd invite anyone else interested to pile in!

    You can see the Bard stuff here - https://sway.office.com/JeZRHqmqMjLq36SD?ref=Link

    EDIT:  Apologies if the Sway content looks weird - let me know if its unusable;  I drafted that in Google Docs,  exported to DOCX,  from there to PDF... then found out I couldn't add either here.  Tried to convert to images,  only option I could see was to export to Sway which then "redesigned" my simple document.  I'm too old for this stuff.  And in 'holiday' mode...   :unsure:

    The number one quality of life issue for me is bugs, most importantly the many problems of the note editor, and the stale search results.

    Lack of regression testing (i.e. ensuring that one bug fix doesn't trigger another bug) is another biggie. Anytime a longstanding bug is fixed, it is a disruption to the users' workflow. The user has to re-train themselves to stop doing the (typically annoying and time-consuming) bug work-around. That re-training process is only worth it when the bug fix doesn't introduce new bugs or re-activate old bugs, which in turn require users to learn or re-learn whatever the workaround is for the new/re-activated bug. Often this work-around requires many painful hours of re-visiting old notes to apply the work-around so that the notes are usable in the new, post-fix environment.

    • Like 2
  15. I have 11 years invested in this product. It is absolutely worth worrying about what 'may' happen.

    Granted, claims about "Writing on the wall" are certainly a form of speculation, but there is a clear trend towards charging for everything. EN might continue to offer some sort of free experience, but with greater and greater restrictions as time goes by. For example, they might replace unlimited free trial with 30, 60, or 90 day free trial, or storage/bandwidth/other limitations. Now that free VC money is getting scarce, the days of free services are drawing to a close IMO. Everyone remembers how Google and others used to offer free "unlimited" storage in the cloud "forever". These days it is rare to get more than c. 1-10 GB for free from a reputable cloud storage service. As long as EN don't change the policy of letting free users upgrade for a short period of time, it would remain possible to get your content off the service at a reasonable cost.

    Besides, if posting about clear trends and the writing on the wall causes Evernote to reassure us publicly that they will never change that policy, well, that's never a guarantee but it does make it harder for them to change that policy. That's a win in my book!

    • Like 1
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