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Kevin Mitchell

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About Kevin Mitchell

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  1. Just wanted to let you guys know, the block layout problem I reported in this forum discussion is much better now. Basic HTML-based documents now display with block spacing! I'm doing the dance of happiness! I've fallen back in love with Evernote! Thanks!
  2. Okay, I looked at the Web Beta, and, well....just from the start, it makes me feel lost. A typing area in a sea of white with no frame? Find the polar bear in this blizzard... Let's talk about design. Space makes things easy for people to see. Contrast helps people see it. But what's the whole point of Evernote? To let me: Enter notesClip things from the web with fidelityRead what I put into itThe design should support those things. It should be obvious how to do things, and easy to read my notes. If I make my web browser full screen...the design wastes tons of space, but truncates the title of the note. I shouldn't have to edit the note and risk updating the mod date just to read the title. Evernote is such a wonderful and unique tool. Yeah, I understand, you want to make it look "with it" and all that. But really, given a 1080p monitor, I shouldn't be faced with an ellipsis in a note title. It should use the space. At least wrap the line. P.S. Thanks for not breaking spacing on block elements in the note like the Mac client. That's what I was really checking. Kevin
  3. That's the same problem I described here. Thanks for writing the support tickets. I need to put one in as discussing it in the forum hasn't accomplished much. https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/76732-evernote-60-block-element-spacing-lost/
  4. When are we going to get 6.0.5 direct download? Evernote 6 taught me to be wary of Evernote upgrades, so I'm not ever using the App Store version again.
  5. Support is giving me ways to fix the scripts so I don't get the (null). I asked them to please fix the program. The point is that I shouldn't have to fix scripts to work around Evernote bugs. Evernote is a productivity tool. When it develops random bugs, it really puts a serious roadblock in my productivity.
  6. I've queried the devs of all the other platforms to see what kinds of default spacing they're adding to notes. It is kind of inconsistent from place to place, but I'll work on improving that. Mac is the only platform currently that doesn't add space to these elements, so I feel like a compromise there is probably a good idea. One of the good things about the new editor is that it doesn't use paragraph or heading tags itself (it does most formatting using <div>s instead). This means that I can potentially add some default spacing around <p> and <hX> without affecting notes that users type directly in the new editor. However, lists are still created as real HTML lists, so I won't add default spacing around them. Hopefully this is a good enough compromise for you. Evernote 5 used <div> tags too. I checked. So I'm going to take back my comment about using structure in Evernote 6. It's not a change from 5. If I want structure, I'll use one of my other routes for getting things into Evernote. I think basing off the usual HTML stylesheet defaults would help with imported material. Could the editor take the margins off the lists that users create, by adding inline styles to the <ol> or <ul> element?
  7. I tried an experiment with some html, forcing all the CSS style to be inline with a tool that applied a stylesheet. So the margins on my headings and paragraphs should be there, right? Wrong. If I make an HTML file and drop it on Evernote, Evernote imports it, and it removes the margins from the inline styles. So they don't show. If you want to see what I mean, look at this gist with the original HTML, and what it was after Evernote changed it: https://gist.github.com/kamitchell/e109d8ab9dd1a6005747 I think this can be considered a bug. It also means that we can't work around the changes to how Evernote displays notes by changing the way scripts create HTML. Not that we should have to work around the HTML display problem anyway. Submitted ticket #868549 for this one.
  8. Users have been complaining about that layout for years, too. It's one of the assumed complaints about EN - the way lists have spacing before/after them yet standard paragraphs don't. I've read the complaints about this so many times on this forum it's crazy! I'm beyond excited this is being fixed, as I think it's better and more consistent to have everything single-spaced from each other and add spacer lines as desired versus having some things single-spaced and some having block styling. Now to just get text-wrap... To make sure I'm understanding you guys correctly - you format your notes in a 3rd party program, then paste into EN and that's when the spacing doesn't behave as it used to? It seems to me like Evernote's changing the software so that everything is consistent. When you create notes in EN's note editor, there is no support for block spacing (outside of lists). Seems to me (a non-developer but avid user) they're trying to make the experience the same across the board, since it's INCREDIBLY frustrating to have to copy/paste everything in plain text and format it in Evernote so that one doesn't get stuck with HTML formatting from the source that can't be modified. This way copy/pasting data from a web browser will have the same editing functionality, paragraph-wise, that just typing it in the editor does. Me likey! This is easy to answer, and can be found on these forums as well - Evernote is developed platform-specific. Love it or hate it, but each team works on things not 100% parallel with each other. Evernote has 0 track record (as far as I know) of having core capabilities only on one platform (they might have a gap between implementations, but they all get everything eventually), so I wouldn't worry. Dollars to donuts, it will all be consistent eventually (according to track record). I don't think our two desires are inconsistent. I'm basically asking for the meaning of the internal HTML to go back to the way it was. That way, HTML injected by scripts or pasted rich text will still look the same. The change to the defaults has also broken notes of mine that are up to two years old. That's pretty bad. The editor level can always override the default stylesheet. There's nothing preventing the editor from inserting a new <p style="margin:0"> or whatever instead of <p> when you hit return, if that's what the editor needs to do to make it friendly to people. The editor should also be able to tell if it's pasting rich or plain text and can act accordingly. So I'm not arguing that they did something bad to the editor. Maybe it's a good thing; I haven't edited enough in Evernote to tell yet. I'm just suggesting that there's a better place and way to make those changes, and then everybody is happy. Because believe me, I'm the opposite of happy right now.
  9. I've queried the devs of all the other platforms to see what kinds of default spacing they're adding to notes. It is kind of inconsistent from place to place, but I'll work on improving that. Mac is the only platform currently that doesn't add space to these elements, so I feel like a compromise there is probably a good idea. One of the good things about the new editor is that it doesn't use paragraph or heading tags itself (it does most formatting using <div>s instead). This means that I can potentially add some default spacing around <p> and <hX> without affecting notes that users type directly in the new editor. However, lists are still created as real HTML lists, so I won't add default spacing around them. Hopefully this is a good enough compromise for you. I don't count using div instead of paragraphs or headings a "good thing" either. The big win to me in Evernote was that it was HTML-based. Regular, standard HTML. The same stuff used in the web, the same stuff that Markdown formatters produce. It's bad that it's changing. It's bad because it's not the same as other programs that handle HTML content. That makes all kind of interchange not work (as we already see). It's bad because you're telling me that if I ever need to get out of Evernote, my newly-typed content doesn't have structural markup (using the correct heading/paragraph tags). It's bad because it's not even consistent across Evernote platforms. "Eventual" consistency doesn't help. It just means that Evernote is going to get in my way on one platform or another until it's consistent...and then what's to say it won't change again? (And you're telling me I can expect this problem with iOS next? I use my iPad to quickly read things much more than my desktop.) I'm finding that as long as I have 6.0+ installed on my personal machine, I'm afraid to create content. I know it's going to look bad, and now I know it's not going to have real heading tags. I want to help you find the bugs, so I'm keeping 6 installed, but I'm feeling compelled to go back to Evernote 5. A program that makes me hesitate to use it...that basically removes the whole value of it. The base HTML should use a standard stylesheet and real structural tags like p and h2. What the editor styles...well, that's what it styles...that's why there's a style attribute on all HTML elements.
  10. As an example of things I do with scripts and expect block spacing to work: tell application "Evernote" set theNote to create note with text "" title "Test note" append theNote html "<h2>Heading</h2><p>Text</p>" end tell The (null) thing is a new bug that I've reported and started a forum topic on.
  11. Opened ticket #865465. If you execute this AppleScript (which is a very simplified version of a script I use all the time as part of a quick-journaling thing I wrote), then (null) appears above the first text. Didn't happen in 5.5.2: tell application "Evernote" set theNote to create note with text "" title "Test note" append theNote html "<h2>Heading</h2><p>Text</p>" end tell You get: Also happens to show off the block formatting bug.
  12. I'm at this point too. I put 5.5.1 on my work machine manually to keep App Store from accidentally upgrading it. The only reason I haven't downgraded my home machine from 6.0.3 to 5.5.1 is so I can respond to Evernote about bugs I'm reporting.
  13. Thanks for getting back to me. Sorry I hadn't responded yet; it was a busy week and I was traveling. Now it makes sense to me. I see what you're driving at, but maybe there is a better way to do it that works better cross-platform and doesn't affect legacy notes. Taking out the default whitespace means that the display of the HTML is now incompatible with just about every other program that bases their formatting on HTML. The default HTML style sheet is such a key part of things that W3C has included it as an informative reference in the CSS 2.1 spec. Evernote is clearly based on HTML, because there are AppleScript verbs for inserting HTML. Changing the default style sheet is going to mess things up for the community that supports Evernote by building things around it. I also have scripts that insert HTML into Evernote notes and get undesired results; these would become unnecessarily more complicated if I had to look up the elements in the default stylesheet. I should be able to just put in an <h2> and get some kind of reasonable space. If the editing experience needs to deviate from the default style sheet, then maybe the default could be left alone, and the editor could zero out those spacings with local style attributes when it creates those elements. It's a bit more work for you guys, but that's work done once, rather than frustration for all users. It would give a consistent experience across different platforms. And, if the editor is the part making the change, maybe there could be a switch for the editor for how the spacing should work. In short, I'm suggesting that if the editor wants elements to work differently, then it should style those elements individually rather than changing the default stylesheet for everything. Thoughts?
  14. Thanks for the update! I'm glad to see that Evernote is working fast to address customer concerns. I just installed 6.0.2, and the spacing problem is still there. That's the one where pasted content loses its spacing, but only on the Mac version. iOS and Web look fine (even if it's created and looks bad on the Mac!). It's described in detail with screenshots and a link to the .enex export here: https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/76732-evernote-60-block-element-spacing-lost/ It's basically made it difficult to read literally hundreds of notes that already exist. Any chance we could get that looked at? It's a real deal-breaker for me, and will force me to downgrade to version 5. Thanks!
  15. My notes are okay. My shortcuts are gone. The app also synced my shortcut state, so the shortcuts disappeared from my Mac, my iPhone, my iPad, and the web. Kevin
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