Evernote for Mac 6.2 Beta 1 Released

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

I’m really excited to announce the release of Evernote for Mac 6.2 Beta 1 which will address some long standing features that many of you have been requesting  The release of Apple’s El Capitan and it’s new split view feature gave us the opportunity to look at how Evernote works in a narrow window environment.  This has led us to redesign a few things.

• First off Evernote now remembers the current width of the sidebar and the note list so that these elements will shrink with the window but they will also grow back to their original widths when you make the window wide again.
  
• Second the sidebar will shrink into a single row of icons so that we take up a minimal amount of space but still provide a mechanism to navigate within Evernote. This is currently designed as a temporary state and does not include shortcuts or other sub elements.  However, let us know if you would like to run it as your main sidebar and tell us the features you would need.
  
• Finally we’ve completely redesigned our note editor toolbars.  They are responsive which means as you shrink the note editor the toolbar also shrinks and instead of having formatting buttons disappear they will be added to a pop-down toolbar that can still be accessed when there’s not a lot of room.    Also new is that if you have a large monitor all of the toolbars will become a single row of icons giving your writing space a bigger area.
  

 

All of the above changes are available to every customer and not just those that are running El Capitan.

 

We’ve also made a number of other changes.

• We’ve added back the All Notes button so it’s faster to get back to all your notes. 
  
• We are continuing to refine work chat and how it integrates into the Evernote experience.  In 6.2 we’ve moved it to the bottom of the sidebar so it is no longer the top most item.  This helps separate it from all of your note functionality and aligns the design closer to our web client.  We are also showing recent chats in the sidebar so it’s quick and easy to reply to people when you receive a message. (NOTE: This is available for Yosemite and newer OSs)
  
• Finally, many people have asked for ways to speed formatting via the keyboard and we've added this in 6.2 by allowing you to use markdown-inspired shortcuts.  We’ve posted a blog post about our new common editor and this is one of the first major new features from this team. Expect more in the coming months.  This basically means that you can type characters into your note that will automatically apply formatting or a style to the text.  Here’s the list of formatting options supported.
  
   
  
  
  • 
    
    Inline Formatting
    
    
    *Text* = Italics
    
    
    **Text** = Bold
    
    
    ~~Text~~ = Strikethrough
    
    
    !!Text!! = Highlight
    
    
    `Text`= Code Block  
    
    
     
    
    
    
  • 
    
    Lists and Tables
    
    
    Typing “1. “ will start a numbered list
    
    
    Typing “* “ will start a bulleted list
    
    
    Typing [] or [ ] will create an unchecked checkbox
    
    
    Typing [x] will create a checked checkbox
    
    
    Typing a line of at least three * or - will add a horizontal rule
    
    
    Typing a [][][] on it’s own line will add a table with 3 columns 
    
    
    Typing [][][][]x2 on it’s own line will add a table with 4 columns and 2 rows
    
    
    
  
  

 

We have also fixed an encryption issue so if you’ve bumped into this problem please try this beta.

 

Because this is a big release and we wanted to get this out to people to start playing with it as soon as possible we are releasing with some known issues.  Here’s a list of things that we know are broken but are actively working on fixes.

1) Many of the biggest issues in the beta are around the new note toolbar.  For example we’re still working through some important tag issues such as  CMD+’ doesn’t work and copying and pasting into the Tag edit field is broken.  Tooltips aren’t appearing and sometimes there are layout issues.

 

2) Of course some things have been moved around.  Probably the biggest change is that the note and tag areas are hidden when you are editing a note.  We felt these were less important when you were editing but you can still get to them quickly by clicking on their icons that remain in the formatting toolbar.

 

3) If you click in the Share dialog, add some names, click in the message field and then back to the recipient field you won’t get the suggestion menu anymore.  For now, please remember to enter everyone you want to share a note or notebook with in the recipient field before adding a message.

 

4) There appears to be an El Capitan bug where Rotate Clockwise or Counterclockwise doesn’t appear to work.

 

Thanks again for taking a sneak peek at our upcoming release and helping us find issues before we ship 6.2 to all Evernote for Mac customers.  We really want to hear what you think about the new features -- better window resizing, new toolbar, markdown and work chat improvements.  You can download the beta from here.  I should also mention that this release only works on OS 10.9 and above.  6.1.1 was our last release for 107 and 10.8 users.

 

NOTE: If you're not seeing the new formatting toolbar you may have to turn it on via Preferences : Software Update and check Enable new note editor toolbar.   Of course if you want to go back to the old toolbar you can also use this checkbox to turn it off.

[t0panka 3]

I just discovered little tiny bug. When i highlight couple sentences and try to create bulleted list the first sentence always have one extra space between bullet (dot) and words so if i try to remove it it also remove that dot and need to put it there again:

[macfixer 375]

Hi Marcus!

 

I've been holding back on Evernote because of the lack of Markdown support. I was very excited to hear about this beta, so I signed up right away. I should note that I've only been using this beta, and haven't really used the 'regular' version of Evernote. I like it so far, but I don't really like how I can't see the 'source' of my markdown text.

 

I would suggest to show the text the way apps like iA Writer does, while editing. And show the 'parsed' text when viewing a note.

 

 

 

 

I have three more comments on the way Markdown is parsed in Evernote:

- I'd love to she Markdown headings

- For the 'checklists', I really like the way Github has implemented this. You create a checklist like so:

- [ ] Not checked item- [x] Checked item- [ ] Another not checked item

- I'm also a big fan of the default tables in markdown:

| Table head 1 | Table head 2 ||--------------|--------------|| Table content | Table content || Table content 2 | Table Content 2 |

Basically, in my ideal world Evernote would support full Github Flavored Markdown.

 

I know the Markdown implementation is in an early stage, but that makes this the best time to give my take on it.

 

 

Great work so far and I can't wait the test the coming versions!

Bram

 

Unrelated: Man, that screenshot makes me miss Sparrow 

[J'sDad 3]

Hello,

 

I have the same issue as @brooksy4503 (below), but with renaming Notebooks (not Tags) and without the "flash".

 

Clicking the settings wheel, however, triggers the slide-down card from the top and allows me to rename. 

 

Otherwise: Thank you, Evernote folks, for being so helpful, honest and engaging as you address what was (for me) an issue that had me literally half-switched to OneNote for Mac and iOS despite its lack of tags, miserable clipper, poor email handling… 

 

With the progress you're outlining on the Editor, I expect to remain a happy 'Premium' customer.

 

 

Hi,

 

Unable to rename tags.

 

Procedure:

View->Tags

Right Click any tag

Click Rename Tag

The tag flashes off and on

You cannot type anything in to change the tag.

 

Any ideas?

This works on Evernote for Windows 5.9.1.8742

 

Regards

 

Garth

[macfixer 375]

I think Evernote should either fully implement Markdown, or not at all.

 

I think you're thinking of "Do or do not, there is no try" 

[mrgoerend 89]

Can't see what notebook my note is in: https://www.evernote.com/l/AA3x3IQLE9FJGo81WZ7xQgeWQmVoRBC1z4Q

[EdH 1,668]

I created a note in Skitch on my iPhone. I cannot add tags. There is a padlock next to the date of the note. Is this a bug in the 6.2 beta?

[EdH 1,668]

Can't see what notebook my note is in: https://www.evernote.com/l/AA3x3IQLE9FJGo81WZ7xQgeWQmVoRBC1z4Q

CLick on the notebook icon, or wide your note window. I believe this is the new way the toolbar dynamically shrinks depending on the size of your window.

[JMichaelTX 4,105]

Editing:  Rich Text WYSIWYG vs Markdown

 

While this thread is, in general, about the new EN Editor as exposed in EN Mac 6.2 Beta 1, the conversation seems to be dominated by posts about "Markdown".

 

My main concern at this point is that I hope Evernote developers do not become consumed by the new "Markdown" feature to the extent of ignoring most other features that have been requested for years, and hopefully are in the queue.

 

Evernote was designed from the beginning, and still is, to provide a rich text WYSIWYG editor.

I think that is what the large majority of Evernote users want.  If I'm wrong, hopefully someone from Evernote will correct me.

 

I understand that if you are using a plain text editor (not Evernote), that Markdown provides a simple, dumbed-downed, simple, alternative to HTML code to produce a nice, formatted, page when displayed by a browser, or Markdown preview app.

 

But if I am using a rich text, or HTML WYSIWYG, editor, what is the benefit of using Markdown in the content creation?  It seems to me that it will require a lot more typing, remembering the Markdown codes, and I still have to view in preview mode to make sure I have entered the correct codes.

So, where's the benefit?   What's the purpose?

 

With a rich text editor I have most of my formatting commands available as a keyboard shortcut.

Most of these are very well known, and even work cross-platform.

I see instantly, in real time, how the formatted textd will appear.

So why would I want to learn a new set of formatting codes, called "Markdown"?

 

There are many apps available for writers, many or most that support Markdown.

Frankly, I don't see Evernote as a strong writers tool (sorry Evernote managers/devs).

IMO, as I see it, Evernote is primarily a PIM (Personal Information Manager).

You can easily use it to create new notes by typing, web clipping, email-to-account, and even pasting the clipboard.

 

So, if one can easily, and reliably, create well formatted notes using the rich text editor, why would you want to use Markdown to create the Note, IF, you can easily export (copy) selected text, or the entire note, as plain text Markdown? 

 

 

[mrgoerend 89]

 

Can't see what notebook my note is in: https://www.evernote.com/l/AA3x3IQLE9FJGo81WZ7xQgeWQmVoRBC1z4Q

CLick on the notebook icon, or wide your note window. I believe this is the new way the toolbar dynamically shrinks depending on the size of your window.

 

Clicking the notebook icon does not show which Notebook the note is currently in (it only presents a list of notebooks I could move it into). And my note window is as wide and I can make it on my 13.3" screen. 

 

Edit: I see now that there's a tiny checkmark next to the current notebook that I have to find by scrolling through the entire list of notebooks. So, yeah, I still can't really see what notebook my note is in

[rdj999 22]

 

Why do I want EN to support MD? It's simple: I want all my thoughts in one place. Right now, I have articles and images in Evernote, but I have to keep all my notes in Markdown in another application that supports it. 

 

I definitely understand this.  It is very similar to storing code blocks in Evernote.

 

So, I propose this:

• Rather than converting Markdown codes to rich text, why not just provide a plain text block where you could enter MD code, or any other plain text.
  • This would allow all MD users to store snippets of MD text that can be easily copy/paste into other apps that expect MD text
  • This would also provide for the portability that some users would like
• Provide a code block, where Evernote will not change any text/code, whether or not it is entered manually, or is pasted from a code editor/IDE.
  • This includes retaining all indents.  
  • If the code text contains colors, the colors would be retained.  IOW, retain the pasted code text exactly as it is on the clipboard.
  • As a bonus, Evernote could (later if need be) provide auto-syntax formatting/coloring (on an optional basis)

So what do you think MD users, would this work for you?

 

 

This would be fine with me, however, I would add that whenever text is added to an empty Evernote note (or a new note is created from text), if the text does not have any "rich text formatting", it should be treated implicitly as a text block – as it behaved before – and should "become" rich text only when the first rich-text formatting is applied to it.

 

In other words, don't treat it like rich text until "I do", AND it would be nice to have a formatting control that allows me to imbed a code block WITHIN an otherwise rich text note.

[chirmer 567]

Finally, many people have been asking for some basic markdown features in our note editor.  We’ve posted a blog post about our new common editor and this is one of the first major new features from this team. Expect more in the coming months.  This basically means that you can type characters into your note that will automatically apply formatting or a style to the text. 

 

Just read this... and you have no idea how agonizing you've made the rest of my afternoon, during which I do not have access to my Mac and must use my work PC. 

 

Will this improved note editor help with the plethora of printing problems Evernote currently has? I have created some hardcore EN users in my workplace, but weak printing has held us back from complete adoption.

[rdj999 22]

Okay, here's a really nasty one: in the beta, it no longer seems possible to copy tags in an existing note for the purpose of copying them and pasting them onto other notes. I can still select them - but only by clicking them while holding down SHIFT or CMD, not by dragging the mouse across them – and I can no longer CMD-C copy them.

 

I depend on this capability to normalize my tagging across multiple notes. Yes, I know you can select multiple notes and add the same tags to them: I'm talking about being able to replace (or selectively replace, or selectively add) one or more tags to individual notes using tags copied to the clipboard.

 

Please tell me this is a bug...

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

Hi,

 

Unable to rename tags.

 

 

Garth

 

Oh my goodness...great find! We'll get someone on it.

 

 

A couple of things:

• While the toolbar is in design, can we get the indent and outdent buttons added to the mac like the Windows version has? See link. For that matter, if there is some editor parity being the goal, shouldn't the toolbars be virtually identical in function and order? The strikethrough icon is missing on the Mac, camera missing on Windows, and the order is slightly out of whack on several like the location of font color, checkboxes, etc.
• Any plans to ever let Mac users merge notes in the order they are selected like the Windows version has vs having to hack the modified dates to get the notes to merge in the right order?
• Finally, after installing it, it trashed my column widths. My columns are Created, Updated, Title, Sync, Tags, Notebook, and Size. I use the List view. When the beta installed, "Created" was about 80%-85% the width of the list, and the rest were as small as they could be. Just something to try an tweak in the upgrade process before it rolls out to the masses.

 

Great suggestions on toolbar improvements.  The plan is to continue improving it over time.  Sorry about the column widths.  We just put a fix in so they don't auto-expand but we should probably check on your particular issue where the first column gets huge.  Thanks for reporting this.

 

 

Hello,

 

I have the same issue as @brooksy4503 (below), but with renaming Notebooks (not Tags) and without the "flash".

 

Clicking the settings wheel, however, triggers the slide-down card from the top and allows me to rename. 

 

Otherwise: Thank you, Evernote folks, for being so helpful, honest and engaging as you address what was (for me) an issue that had me literally half-switched to OneNote for Mac and iOS despite its lack of tags, miserable clipper, poor email handling… 

 

With the progress you're outlining on the Editor, I expect to remain a happy 'Premium' customer.

 

Ahh...yes renaming notebook is also broken.  Thanks for reporting this.  

[foogoo 3]

Notebook field is basically useless when you start shrinking the window width, using the new toolbar.

 

[PeeJayTee 99]

How does the markdown "thing" work? I have the new beta-version and tried every example you have. I dont seem to succed on making eg. code-blocks?

 

Any guide how to create it?

 

Marcus pretty much summed up the shortcuts in his post.  The "code block" might be misnamed, but it's a way to call out quick snippets of text similar to bold or italic.  It's experimental right now, but I've been using it to call out UI elements in a tutorial (click <enter> to continue).  It's not appropriate for pasting long SQL queries for instance, although we know that is a need.

 

To create one, type something like `Code` using the backquote key (above the tab key on most macs).

[arcterex 0]

Another minor annoyance I just noticed.  I used to be able to click anywhere on a note to start editing, and if the click was in the bottom area of the note, it would just put the insertion point at the bottom of the note.  Now it seems that I can't click anywhere on that big expanse of white under any text I've written, but I have to click above a certain point.  It doesn't seem to be due to the text (what I thought originally) as with a one line note there's a point where the cursor turns into an insertion point, but that "area of clickability" seems to be the same.  From a workflow point of view I'm used to seeing the grey outer area outside the white editable / clickable area.  Now the entire note area is white, making me think I can click anywhere in there.   Kind of annoying and I'm finding myself being frustrated because I open a note, click and then realize I can't start typing until I move the mouse up to some (seemingly) arbitrary point above which I can.  I think this is just the color outside of the editable area going from grey to white so there's not visual differentiation anymore.

 

See attachments for examples.

[EdH 1,668]

Notebook field is basically useless when you start shrinking the window width, using the new toolbar.

 

doesn't it get big again if you click on it and get out of the editing mode of the note? Not at my mac right now, but when I was playing with it this morning, I noticed the notebook and tag buttons were uninformative until I clicked up there, then they grew to normal sizes.

[rdj999 22]

Here's an issue that I don't recall from pre-beta.

 

When pasting text into a note, the cursor is positioned somewhere in the middle of the pasted text, not at the end of that text – as I believe nearly everything else does.

 

This occurs in both beta 1 and beta 2.

[Metrodon 2,177]

The big advantage I see for 'real' markdown is that it is portable - a user can take mark up'd (or down'd) text between editors and know that the text will retain it's formatting. The user is also able to see the markdown tags embedded in a document.

 

Evernote have implemented new keyboard shortcuts for text formatting, that aren't visible to the user and do not show up in any other editor.

 

I'm really not sure what the point of it is, I don't believe that anyone techie enough to use Markdown isn't already aware of of cmd+b for example.

[popo55 0]

Really like the new editor bar, if only because tags are no longer relegated to a tiny space where you can't see more than one and it's difficult to add new ones!  I'm also glad that when it attempts to autocomplete the tag, and you keep typing, it no longer changes the case of the tag to the previous suggested autocomplete tag.  This was sooooo annoying before. 

 

In previous versions this functions perfectly, in this beta release however, the shortcut keys don't seem to be triggered correctly. I'll need to tab out of fields or move the mouse to fully focus on the note as opposed to being able to do it from the note list.

 

Also, when trying to tag from the note list, the tags appear to be displaying outside of the box used for tagging.

 

 

I can also confirm this is happening.  Something really wonky happens with Cmd+' like it's trying to access the old place where the tag box used to be?  But the cursor doesn't go to the tag box, and sometimes it will add the tag and sometimes it won't.

[bram 3]

I think Evernote should either fully implement Markdown, or not at all.

[aharpole 6]

There are a couple of Markdown things that would be great to have in place:

 

#, ##, ###, etc. for h1, h2, h3, etc. I use these a lot in my own markdown to organize things.

 

Having [links](http://evernote.com)

 

Using - to indicate bullets in addition to the * character (I personally use that one a ton!)

 

Also, fenced code block support would be amazing. They look like this:

 

```

code goes in here

you can have many lines

and when you're done

```

 

Hope you consider adding these!

 

 

[aharpole 6]

I also noticed that if you have a bulleted item and you start it with a block of code, it doesn't get turned into code. If the bulleted item doesn't start with code but uses code later in the item, that works.

[macfixer 375]

If you make the note window small, things get ugly quickly.

[PeeJayTee 99]

If you make the note window small, things get ugly quickly.

 

 

Be sure to turn on the new formatting toolbar in Preferences : Software Update and check Enable new note editor toolbar.  That should make things much nicer

[EdH 1,668]

There are a couple of Markdown things that would be great to have in place:

 

#, ##, ###, etc. for h1, h2, h3, etc. I use these a lot in my own markdown to organize things.

 

Having [links](http://evernote.com)

 

Using - to indicate bullets in addition to the * character (I personally use that one a ton!)

 

Also, fenced code block support would be amazing. They look like this:

 

```

code goes in here

you can have many lines

and when you're done

```

 

Hope you consider adding these!

 

I think to claim you have markdown, the article at Daring Fireball is the definitive source.

[matsie 10]

hm. I see ordered lists still aren't fixed. First thing I checked since it's one of the biggest issues I have with this "note"-taking app. :-\

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

If you make the note window small, things get ugly quickly.

 

 

How many people are not seeing the new toolbar.  If you aren't then we have a bug.  It should look like this...

[macfixer 375]

 

If you make the note window small, things get ugly quickly.

 

 

Be sure to turn on the new formatting toolbar in Preferences : Software Update and check Enable new note editor toolbar.  That should make things much nicer

 

That fixed it! Thanks!

[gelbander 0]

 

How does the markdown "thing" work? I have the new beta-version and tried every example you have. I dont seem to succed on making eg. code-blocks?

 

Any guide how to create it?

 

Marcus pretty much summed up the shortcuts in his post.  The "code block" might be misnamed, but it's a way to call out quick snippets of text similar to bold or italic.  It's experimental right now, but I've been using it to call out UI elements in a tutorial (click <enter> to continue).  It's not appropriate for pasting long SQL queries for instance, although we know that is a need.

 

To create one, type something like `Code` using the backquote key (above the tab key on most macs).

 

Sorry, I think I didnt explain my issue good enough. I know markdown and how to use characters to do stuff. ## for headers `` for codeblock and so on.

 

I would really like to see someone use it, can I get a screenshot of a code-block or a header used with markdown and se how it looks? 

 

What I dont know is: How to get it to look like a codeblock.

- Rightclick and select "convert to markdown"

- Select text and CMD+Y+D

- etc..

 

The post is only about what you can do, not how. It doesnt go it by just add the characters around some text.

[Dale Wright 1]

Markdown woud be absolutly great - thank you!

 

Most important in my opinion: in long reading text to have a structure with H1, H2, H3 (#, ##, ###) You can see this in the new iOS9 Notes app: Headers and paragraphes formates the text so pretty ...!

 

Bonus would be to generate a TOC (oder any other anchor _in_ a note).

 

To test it on Windows: I use 5.9.1.8742 (276742) - where to find a Beta?

 

I second your suggestion about headings. I spend a fair bit of time editing notes to optimise them for presentation mode (My work involving taking a lot of notes and then presenting them back) and it would be great if Headings helps format things in Presentation Mode.

[py4on 1]

Love the new markdown integration.

 

Just one thing for now: strikethrough seems inconsistent when apostrophes are included, particularly if they're placed at the end of the text.

 

 

[mrapplegate 7]

 

I downloaded it (updated it from v6.1.1 beta) but I noticed that when I open the app it doesn't immediately show up. I have to click twice on the icon before the window appears. (Yosemite 10.10.5)

 

Edit: here's a gif

 

 

Also, the settings for the menu clipper seem to be broken. It keeps running even if it's set to quit when I close Evernote.

 

I'm not able to reproduce this.  Is anyone else seeing this issue?

 

Launches fine for me. OS X 10.11(15A282b)

[matsie 10]

When making an ordered list it should look like this...

1. list item

2. list item

    a. indented list item

          i. double indented list item


The ordered list should not start back over at 1. This makes actual note taking and text editing difficult for anyone. Especially when it automatically creates your weird version of an ordered list if I start typing "1."

[dustinfarris 13]

The default sizing on card view and especially snippet view seem to be off.

 

Here is card view (the default) when I first opened the beta app:

 

 

and changing to Snippet view looks like this:

 

[dustinfarris 13]

 I'm not sure this implementation of Markdown is exactly what the community wants.

 

This beta provides Markdownish "shortcuts" to existing Evernote formatting implementation.  E.g. type "**bold**" and the text instantly becomes "bold".  But that's the end of it, the Markdown that got you to bold is gone.  What I think the community really wants is a bona fide Markdown version of a note that can be displayed/edited either way—as pure Markdown, or pretty format.  See Day One or GitHub for great examples of this in action.

 

If all we get is a shortcut to existing formatting implementation, why would I want to type **bold** instead of ⌘+B bold (or CTRL+B bold)?  When I asked for Markdown (years ago), I was asking for the option to have a real Markdown editing experience, not shortcuts to existing behavior.

 

 

IMHO

[forbesguthrie 1]

 

So, even in the email it is being called markdown. The blog post also calls it "basic markdown". So, unfortunately the expectation has been set in a number of places that what is coming is markdown support. Basic markdown, to me, means markdown without the Github extensions. It sounds like others were expecting that as well.

 

I really appreciate the effort being put in. I think its going to be tough walking back expectations on markdown support now given how the new editor was announced.

 

Agreed - and thanks. To be clear, I don't want to say that we're never going to add something called "markdown support" that meets the expectations - just not in this version.  What we've been considering is something similar to what @JMichael and @gelbander suggested - an easy way to import and export markdown to and from Evernote, but not changing the fact that at the end of the day, we're a rich text WYSIWYG editor. 

 

Since we have some folks who have some enthusiasm around this, I'll take the opportunity to ask.  Is this something that would meet your needs?

 

 

Yes, I've got to agree with the sentiment of the rest of those commenting on this feature.

 

> Since we have some folks who have some enthusiasm around this, I'll take the opportunity to ask.  Is this something that would meet your needs?

 

No, it doesn't. This isn't what everyone thinks when they hear "markdown".

 

I joined the forum specifically to sign up for the beta when I read the associated blog article and its description "Basic markdown will be a reality". Finally, the biggest feature I've been waiting for Evernote to add!

 

Unfortunately this isn't Basic Markdown. That description to me, and probably everyone familiar with Markdown and all the flavours, is that you're describing Markdown that doesn't have any of the many extensions, e.g. Multi-Markdown, Git-flavoured, CommonMark, etc. So just plain vanilla Markdown.

 

Actually, the change that you've made makes the situation worse for markdown users. Now, when I type Markdown into a note the editor will change the contents and won't let me change it back. I want to capture Markdown syntax as I type, and I want it to stay there. Previously it was disappointing that I couldn't see a preview of my markdown notes. Now I can't take markdown notes because this *improvement* will remove the markings on the fly. Eek.

 

Anyway, I strongly advise you don't label this feature with "Markdown" in any way.  It's likely to be more damaging than beneficial when Markdown users are super disappointed.

[hosier.david 5]

 I'm not sure this implementation of Markdown is exactly what the community wants.

 

This beta provides Markdownish "shortcuts" to existing Evernote formatting implementation.  E.g. type "**bold**" and the text instantly becomes "bold".  But that's the end of it, the Markdown that got you to bold is gone.  What I think the community really wants is a bona fide Markdown version of a note that can be displayed/edited either way—as pure Markdown, or pretty format.  See Day One or GitHub for great examples of this in action.

 

If all we get is a shortcut to existing formatting implementation, why would I want to type **bold** instead of ⌘+B bold (or CTRL+B bold)?  When I asked for Markdown (years ago), I was asking for the option to have a real Markdown editing experience, not shortcuts to existing behavior.

 

 

IMHO

You beat me to it. I can't stress this enough. I really hope the finished version provides a way to turn the auto-formatting off. I was so excited to hear about Markdown support, so I signed up for the beta, but I was hugely letdown by the implementation about 5 seconds into testing it. It seems like it would make more sense to be able to enter Markdown and get formatted previews or exports. At a minimum, you should be able to copy the note in a way that yields it's originally input text. Perhaps these are all features that are coming, but with the way it's implemented now, I basically cannot use it at all. People who love Markdown so much that they'd clamor for this feature for years are not the type of people who want their Markdown immediately converted to something else with the Markdown lost forever.

[arcterex 0]

 

I downloaded it (updated it from v6.1.1 beta) but I noticed that when I open the app it doesn't immediately show up. I have to click twice on the icon before the window appears. (Yosemite 10.10.5)

 

Edit: here's a gif

 

 

Also, the settings for the menu clipper seem to be broken. It keeps running even if it's set to quit when I close Evernote.

 

I'm not able to reproduce this.  Is anyone else seeing this issue?

 

 

I'm seeing this as well.  Fully up to date 10.10, beta evernote just downloaded a few minutes ago.  Almost like the mainWindow.show() is set to not show by default or something, or the app is restoring a state of the main window being closed or something.  Is there debugging I can do to help out with this?

[hosier.david 5]

 

 

How does the markdown "thing" work? I have the new beta-version and tried every example you have. I dont seem to succed on making eg. code-blocks?

 

Any guide how to create it?

 

Marcus pretty much summed up the shortcuts in his post.  The "code block" might be misnamed, but it's a way to call out quick snippets of text similar to bold or italic.  It's experimental right now, but I've been using it to call out UI elements in a tutorial (click <enter> to continue).  It's not appropriate for pasting long SQL queries for instance, although we know that is a need.

 

To create one, type something like `Code` using the backquote key (above the tab key on most macs).

 

Sorry, I think I didnt explain my issue good enough. I know markdown and how to use characters to do stuff. ## for headers `` for codeblock and so on.

 

I would really like to see someone use it, can I get a screenshot of a code-block or a header used with markdown and se how it looks? 

 

What I dont know is: How to get it to look like a codeblock.

- Rightclick and select "convert to markdown"

- Select text and CMD+Y+D

- etc..

 

The post is only about what you can do, not how. It doesnt go it by just add the characters around some text.

 

If you are using double-backtick, that's likely your problem. Here's a screen recording of me doing a code block.

[PeeJayTee 99]

Hello everyone,

 

Thanks for all of your detailed feedback on the "markdown-inspired" shortcuts we introduced in this beta.  With best of intentions, we added this feature in hopes that it would make people who are used to typing markdown have a better experience in Evernote.  It’s clear that this implementation missed the mark, so we’ve decided to pull the inline shortcuts out and rethink the approach.

 

For the next beta, you’ll find the “inline" formatting shortcuts have been disabled.  That means that **TEXT** will no longer be replaced with bold, !!TEXT!! will no longer be highlighted, etc.  This may disappoint some of you who found the feature useful, but we believe that it’s better to investigate some alternatives.

 

The shortcuts for numbered and bulleted lists (“1. “ and “* “) , tables ([][][]x4), checkboxes([x] and [ ]) , and horizontal rules (***) will remain.

 

As some of you may be aware, we’ve been making some changes here in how we decide what to build.  A big part of that is to be more in touch with the people who use and love Evernote, and make sure we’re making a better product for them.  This process may be messy at times, but that’s the nature of beta software.   Your feedback is critical - both the praise and concerns with what we’re doing.  I’m personally very excited about this and I look forward to working with you more.

 

Thanks,

P.J. from the Editor Team

[arcterex 0]

 

 I'm not sure this implementation of Markdown is exactly what the community wants.

 

This beta provides Markdownish "shortcuts" to existing Evernote formatting implementation.  E.g. type "**bold**" and the text instantly becomes "bold".  But that's the end of it, the Markdown that got you to bold is gone.  What I think the community really wants is a bona fide Markdown version of a note that can be displayed/edited either way—as pure Markdown, or pretty format.  See Day One or GitHub for great examples of this in action.

 

If all we get is a shortcut to existing formatting implementation, why would I want to type **bold** instead of ⌘+B bold (or CTRL+B bold)?  When I asked for Markdown (years ago), I was asking for the option to have a real Markdown editing experience, not shortcuts to existing behavior.

 

 

IMHO

You beat me to it. I can't stress this enough. I really hope the finished version provides a way to turn the auto-formatting off. I was so excited to hear about Markdown support, so I signed up for the beta, but I was hugely letdown by the implementation about 5 seconds into testing it. It seems like it would make more sense to be able to enter Markdown and get formatted previews or exports. At a minimum, you should be able to copy the note in a way that yields it's originally input text. Perhaps these are all features that are coming, but with the way it's implemented now, I basically cannot use it at all. People who love Markdown so much that they'd clamor for this feature for years are not the type of people who want their Markdown immediately converted to something else with the Markdown lost forever.

 

 

+1 from me.  I wouldn't say it's unusable, as it is nice to have a quick shortcut to get the formatting.  I personally would love a toggle of some sort, maybe a bit like WordPress has, to let you write notes in markdown, have them saved as plain text, but rendered (for preview / reading) with formatting like Day One, or have a full WYSIWYG editor with markdown shortcuts like is implemented now. 

 

I prefer the current implementation over hitting cmd-b, cmd-i, etc to bold/format/etc, but like you guys I'd love "real" markdown.  However I don't know how something like that would jive with the internal representation of notes (RTF IIRC).  For example what if you wrote a note in markdown, and then decided you wanted to highlight a section of it after.  Should the note's markdown be changed, or the formatting go "on top" of the existing plain text (making it not plain text anymore).  Or if you change your mind halfway through and want WYSIWYG editing. 

[EdH 1,668]

Thanks P.J. I think that is the right approach regarding Markdown. I'd love to see MD in EN, but it needs to be a fairly comprehensive implementation. Looking forward to future builds.

[gelbander 0]

Crist! I didnt believe it was true event though I think I realised a while ago? Nope, not even close to what the community was asking for (atleas not me).

 

Actually I dont care that much about markdown as markdown. I just really want to take notes and format snippets of code/terminal commands in a clean way. Markdown is a good common standardish way of doing it but anything will do .

[macfixer 375]

 

If you make the note window small, things get ugly quickly.

 

 

How many people are not seeing the new toolbar.  If you aren't then we have a bug.  It should look like this...

 

I figured the new toolbar would be enabled by default.

[escapist 6]

It seems to me that automatically applying RTF formatting, on the fly, based on Markdown-like syntax is not "Markdown support". It's not "light Markdown support". The feature actively strips the Markdown characters as I enter them.

[chrisfonnesbeck 2]

Unless I am misunderstanding what I am seeing in the beta, "markdown support" appears to simply be that markdown triggers macros that then format the characters in rich text, and the actual markdown disappears. I hope this is not the case, and I am just doing this wrong. If this is the case, it is very disappointing, and calling it markdown support is rather misleading. My markdown should not be blown away after I type it; it ought to be preserved and rendered as HTML when previewed/viewed/exported.

[EdH 1,668]

I think Evernote should either fully implement Markdown, or not at all.

 

Pretty much this. or at the very least, implement what you want, but if it isn't markdown, don't call it markdown.

[dustinfarris 13]

It’s clear that this implementation missed the mark, so we’ve decided to pull the inline shortcuts out and rethink the approach.

 

As some of you may be aware, we’ve been making some changes here in how we decide what to build.  A big part of that is to be more in touch with the people who use and love Evernote, and make sure we’re making a better product for them.

 

This is wonderful—not that the feature was pulled (although, yes, it needed to be)—but that Evernote is actually listening and responding.  Easily the most promising post I've read here.  Pivoting is better than putting on a blindfold and charging >50% of the time.

[Jaass 0]

Shortcut to "move to notebook" do not seem to work.

[Acid Ham 4]

Happy to see that markdown get finally integrated!

 

+1 for Headings. It should be possible to add Headlines with #, ##, ### which is major markup in markdown

+1 for URL like [evernote](http://evernote.com)

 

Markdown makes only sense when the markup gets not rendered instantly to be able to change formatting. Therefore a switch to show markup or not would be valuable. Otherwise it's just half the rent to have markdown in EN. 

 

Following did not work for me: 

1. `Text` - not recognized as code block
2. ~~text~~ - works first time but then not recognized again and stopped working in current note

[jemostrom@w 3]

For what it's worth, I've been testing this for about 10 minutes and my impressions so far:

 

I like that you're considering supporting Markdown formatting but I think that the current implementation could be more useful.

• Typing **bold** is actually more "complicated" than hitting 'command-B'bold'command-B' so I don't see any improvement there. Same for the other commands (except tables)
• The above would have made sense if I could get the markdown formatted text by copying the text (preferable I would be able to toggle between the views like for example DevonThink or DayOne) but right now it doesn't really make sense to me.
• The table commands could be an improvement but I rarely use tables so I'm leaving this open for others to comment on.
• If I copy markdown formatted text into Evernote nothing happens, so here I don't get any change at all.

I'm writing most of my stuff in Markdown, I almost never use a word processor for writing things, and when I'm not using Markdown I'm using LaTeX. So one of my biggest irritations with Evernote is the use of WYSIWYG, I would like to be able to store raw text - most often source code or markdown - evernote. Right now I avoid using Evernote for these type of notes (which probably explain the low number of notes in my account) and mostly store web clippings and photos of documents.

 

I don't know if it's a good solution but an option for a "dual mode" view of notes would be very useful for me. With this I mean that I can edit/write files using markdown and the text files are stored as is (including tabs/spaces) and a "view" option that displays the rendered version of the note (see DayOne and DevonThink). This would also make the new editing features much more useful.

 

The second thing I want to bring up is something more difficult to describe, using the note editor in Evernote doesn't feel as solid/relaxing/calming as I would like (yes, I said it was difficult to describe). The editing experience is way more solid/relaxing/calming when I use Alternote to write things (which have the same kind of formatting that the new editor uses).

[DeanK 2]

Where is the Evernote for Mac 6.2 beta 1 download link?

[Stuhrer 248]

I’m really excited to announce the release of Evernote for Mac 6.2 Beta 1 which will address some long standing features that many of you have been requesting  The release of Apple’s El Capitan and it’s new split view feature gave us the opportunity to look at how Evernote works in a narrow window environment.  This has led us to redesign a few things.

Hello Marcus,

I really like the approach to use a common code base for the editors in all clients in order to create unique editing features and note rendering.

 

We’ve also made a number of other changes.

• Finally, many people have asked for ways to speed formatting via the keyboard and we've added this in 6.2 by allowing you to use markdown-inspired shortcuts.  We’ve posted a blog post about our new common editor and this is one of the first major new features from this team. Expect more in the coming months.  This basically means that you can type characters into your note that will automatically apply formatting or a style to the text.  Here’s the list of formatting options supported.

  • Inline Formatting

    *Text* = Italics

    **Text** = Bold

    ~~Text~~ = Strikethrough

    !!Text!! = Highlight

    `Text`= Code Block  

     

  • Lists and Tables

    Typing “1. “ will start a numbered list

    Typing “* “ will start a bulleted list

    Typing [] or [ ] will create an unchecked checkbox

    Typing [x] will create a checked checkbox

    Typing a line of at least three * or - will add a horizontal rule

    Typing a [][][] on it’s own line will add a table with 3 columns 

    Typing [][][][]x2 on it’s own line will add a table with 4 columns and 2 rows

Markdown support is great and many users will appreciate this. I tested it and found some problems.

• I could not get Strikethrough and Code Block to work.
• When adding some markdown text e.g. bold text and removing the text again the bold state remains active and I have to use the toolbar to switch it off
• I don't like that the feature is always activated. I sometimes for example want to use numbers without creating a numbered lists. How can I do that when typing "1." automatically creates such a list?

I would prefer a special markdown mode that can be toggled on/off as provided by the Markdown Here Firefox Add-On that I use for the Web client.

[jvojordo 2]

Ha - yeah going in to preferences to check the format bar option worked for me too. I didn't know a preference had to be selected for turning it on.

 

I'm still seeing the odd behavior with fullscreen use and opening new note windows.

 

Also, I'm getting odd behavior with pasting from Microsoft Word 2015 in to a new note. Selecting all and copying in Word, then attempting to paste in to Evernote isn't working. The text just won't paste. I can copy and paste text from other notes, though.

[rdj999 22]

I have to echo disappointment for the road Evernote seems to be traveling to add Markdown support. There is almost no way you'll be able to do a good job of re-implementing Markdown, particularly not in this transporter-accident-esque way of merging Markdown with rich text.

 

What I believe you should do is take a full Markdown implementation, one that's time-tested and imbedded into multiple applications, and somehow bring that into Evernote. I'd urge you to consider Multi-Markdown, because that's becoming the de-facto standard integrand into these kinds of products.

 

Here's an example of why what you're doing is going to just aggravate the heck out of those of us who use Markdown elsewhere. Type three dashes and hit CR to get one of the fancy horizontal lines. Then hit backspace. The whole line disappears. What one would reasonably expect to happen is the fancy line reverts back to three dashes with the cursor positioned following the third dash on the same line.

 

As another example, your basic markdown syntax is broken: you don't allow "newlines" between markdown notations! For example:

 

*here

there*

 

should display both words in italics. Yours doesn't. That's why people can't get "code markup" to work: they are probably trying to put a backtick at the beginning and end of the code, and of course, nothing happens. Surely you don't expect them to wrap each line in its own set of backticks?

 

I'm sorry, but this just isn't going to work. I hope you include a way to turn this feature off so it doesn't surprise the heck out of people who don't know what Markdown is.

 

[rdj999 22]

Where is the Evernote for Mac 6.2 beta 1 download link?

Search the original post for the third occurrence of the word "here".

[taguntumi 2]

Was really hoping the new editing functionality would allow for more than one highlight colour.  Same old yellow it seems at this stage.

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

Marcus, I'm really looking forward to the improvements mentions in the Evernote blog post and elsewhere in the forums!

 

I just updated to the 6.2 beta and am experiencing some odd behavior using fullscreen view on OS x 10.10.5.

 

When using Evernote in fullscreen and opening a note in a new window I notice the window opens on top of fullscreen mode (as it did before) and now the background window is dimmed. When switching the newly opened window to fullscreen using command + control + F the window goes to fullscreen, however when taking that note back out of fullscreen mode the behavior seems to go astray and the main Evernote window is actually brought to the foreground (in front of the single note in fullscreen) and minimized.

 

This only seems to happen if using the keyboard shortcut or menu option to initiate full screen of the note. If you use the fullscreen button on the top left of the window to initiate fullscreen the behavior seems to be appropriate. This is especially inconvenient if you primarily work with Evernote in fullscreen and need to quickly move notes in new windows to desktop view.

 

I hope this makes sense in text as I don't have time to record a video right now. Thank you for working with us!

 

I forgot to mention; I'm also not seeing the responsive formatting bar. For me, the tools simply disappear as the window is scaled down.

 

Thanks for finding this issue and reporting it in the forum.  We're investigating it now.

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

Was really hoping the new editing functionality would allow for more than one highlight colour.  Same old yellow it seems at this stage.

 

Yes, not too much new just yet but more to come.

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

The default sizing on card view and especially snippet view seem to be off.

 

Here is card view (the default) when I first opened the beta app:

 

and changing to Snippet view looks like this:

 

 

Thanks for reporting this issue.  We'll start looking at it.

[JMichaelTX 4,105]

 

As some of you may be aware, we’ve been making some changes here in how we decide what to build.  A big part of that is to be more in touch with the people who use and love Evernote, and make sure we’re making a better product for them.  This process may be messy at times, but that’s the nature of beta software.   Your feedback is critical - both the praise and concerns with what we’re doing.  I’m personally very excited about this and I look forward to working with you more.

 

Thanks,

P.J. from the Editor Team

 

 

P.J., wow!  This is huge!  

 

This is a long-requested, and very welcome change to how you guys make design decisions.

Knowing that you guys will actually listen, give serious consideration, and sometimes go with our requests is a really great thing.

 

I don't know what, if any, role your new CEO Chris O'Neill played in this decision, but I'm going to give him a lot of credit for at least allowing the change to go forward.

Of course my thanks go to you, the entire Editor Team, SoftwareMarcus,  Jackolicious, and others I'm unaware of working behind the scenes.

 

I love your attitude and approach.  Please keep up the good work. 

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

 

 

I downloaded it (updated it from v6.1.1 beta) but I noticed that when I open the app it doesn't immediately show up. I have to click twice on the icon before the window appears. (Yosemite 10.10.5)

 

Edit: here's a gif

 

Also, the settings for the menu clipper seem to be broken. It keeps running even if it's set to quit when I close Evernote.

 

I'm not able to reproduce this.  Is anyone else seeing this issue?

 

 

I'm seeing this as well.  Fully up to date 10.10, beta evernote just downloaded a few minutes ago.  Almost like the mainWindow.show() is set to not show by default or something, or the app is restoring a state of the main window being closed or something.  Is there debugging I can do to help out with this?

 

 

Thanks for confirming that 2 of you are seeing this issue so we'll investigate more.

[rdj999 22]

I'll add praise – with high appreciation for both the process and this "trial" outcome. I'm quite satisfied with both, particularly considering the risk that Evernote took in being actively engaged in the discussion. 

 

Thank you!

[PeeJayTee 99]

 

 I'm not sure this implementation of Markdown is exactly what the community wants.

 

This beta provides Markdownish "shortcuts" to existing Evernote formatting implementation.  E.g. type "**bold**" and the text instantly becomes "bold".  But that's the end of it, the Markdown that got you to bold is gone.  What I think the community really wants is a bona fide Markdown version of a note that can be displayed/edited either way—as pure Markdown, or pretty format.  See Day One or GitHub for great examples of this in action.

 

If all we get is a shortcut to existing formatting implementation, why would I want to type **bold** instead of ⌘+B bold (or CTRL+B bold)?  When I asked for Markdown (years ago), I was asking for the option to have a real Markdown editing experience, not shortcuts to existing behavior.

 

 

IMHO

You beat me to it. I can't stress this enough. I really hope the finished version provides a way to turn the auto-formatting off. I was so excited to hear about Markdown support, so I signed up for the beta, but I was hugely letdown by the implementation about 5 seconds into testing it. It seems like it would make more sense to be able to enter Markdown and get formatted previews or exports. At a minimum, you should be able to copy the note in a way that yields it's originally input text. Perhaps these are all features that are coming, but with the way it's implemented now, I basically cannot use it at all. People who love Markdown so much that they'd clamor for this feature for years are not the type of people who want their Markdown immediately converted to something else with the Markdown lost forever.

 

 

Thanks so much for the feedback, guys.  I definitely understand the difference between what you're saying and what we are including in this version.  Markdown provides a lot of benefits in portability between applications that we're not delivering here.

 

Evernote is still a WYSIWYG, and we have't done anything in this version to change that.  We really just wanted to introduce some quick shortcuts to make typing formatted text better, and we chose markdown syntax because we thought it most intuitive.  We've tried to be careful to call these "shortcuts" and not "markdown support" for this very reason, but we have lots of people talking and it's difficult for people who don't know much about markdown to know the (very big) difference.

 

Sorry if we accidentally got you excited about something that we shouldn't have.

[PeeJayTee 99]

 

Markdown woud be absolutly great - thank you!

 

Most important in my opinion: in long reading text to have a structure with H1, H2, H3 (#, ##, ###) You can see this in the new iOS9 Notes app: Headers and paragraphes formates the text so pretty ...!

 

Bonus would be to generate a TOC (oder any other anchor _in_ a note).

 

To test it on Windows: I use 5.9.1.8742 (276742) - where to find a Beta?

 

I second your suggestion about headings. I spend a fair bit of time editing notes to optimise them for presentation mode (My work involving taking a lot of notes and then presenting them back) and it would be great if Headings helps format things in Presentation Mode.

 

 

These are great suggestions and a really nice way to extend this feature in the future!  Internally, we've been calling the type of editing you're referring to "semantic editing", and we're trying to find a clean way of getting it into Evernote.

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

Where is the Evernote for Mac 6.2 beta 1 download link?

 

If people would like to automatically get the beta releases, please go to Preferences : Software Update and check the "Update to beta versions when available" checkbox.  If you want to download directly you will always be able to find it in my original forum post but here it is again.  Mac 6.2 Beta 1.

[PeeJayTee 99]

When making an ordered list it should look like this...

1. list item

2. list item

    a. indented list item

          i. double indented list item

The ordered list should not start back over at 1. This makes actual note taking and text editing difficult for anyone. Especially when it automatically creates your weird version of an ordered list if I start typing "1."

 

Agreed - this really bugs me too.  We're planning this for a (hopefully near) future version, but it didn't make this release in time.  Be looking for lots of improvements in lists (bullets and numbers) to come.

[jonskirk 1]

+1 on the various comments about making markdown optional. This is not just a presentation issue. Some of the markdown syntax interferes with normal text editing - for example, when I write column names from a database query, this_is_my_column, suddenly it's converted to italic, destroying the query. Or when I have a document that uses ---- to indicate comments, suddenly it's converted to a horizontal rule.

 

I can see the formatting would be useful in some situations, but in others it's a problem, so it should be optional.

[PeeJayTee 99]

Unless I am misunderstanding what I am seeing in the beta, "markdown support" appears to simply be that markdown triggers macros that then format the characters in rich text, and the actual markdown disappears. I hope this is not the case, and I am just doing this wrong. If this is the case, it is very disappointing, and calling it markdown support is rather misleading. My markdown should not be blown away after I type it; it ought to be preserved and rendered as HTML when previewed/viewed/exported.

 

So sorry about this - we've been trying to avoid calling this "markdown support" because, to your point, it clearly is not... sorry for (our) miscommunication!

[EdH 1,668]

hated reading the blog post yesterday. I hope everyone is doing ok. Is the mac team still in place or were there some here that were let go?

[aharpole 6]

It's fantastic that you guys are going back to the drawing board on this. A couple of thoughts/ideas:

 

- might I suggest that you use CommonMark? (commonmark.org) Markdown is simple to use but it has proven very difficult to unambiguously spec out. CommonMark has created a fantastic spec and implementation which you can start with, and augment with other features like to-dos and tables. They have reference implementations in C and JavaScript. I haven't dug much into the code myself but I imagine that it's not terribly hard to define different types of elements to add them to the grammar.

 

- Most of the Markdown editors I use will style my Markdown text and help me out with lists (look at apps like Typed, TextMate's markdown bundle, Atom's markdown package, or Day One for good examples) without actually changing my text content. That's useful. Then, when I am ready, I can look at the Markdown as HTML in a separate preview view. Evernote's initial approach of converting stuff to styled text in real time is error-prone and somewhat invasive.

 

- GitHub is an example of making it really easy to include things like images in your Markdown by supporting drag & drop. 

 

- It's okay with me if Markdown notes are a special type of note that get treated differently than plain text or rich text/HTML notes. I just want Markdown to be treated well in Evernote. (if Markdown notes are a distinct note type, then I would envision Markdown notes being like blog posts or something, in which you have a preview/view mode, and an edit mode)

 

- It would be really cool (albeit more difficult) if you can freely switch between Markdown and the WYSIWYG modes. 

 

- It's okay with me if your Markdown implementation doesn't offer full parity with what you can get with WYSIWYG. But since you can include raw HTML in Markdown I think you might be able to get away with making it always possible to switch back and forth between WYSIWYG mode and Markdown mode. 

 

- It might be a good idea if Markdown is one of those power-user-only features that is kind of hidden away. I don't think Evernote should become more daunting to new users just so power users have something great to work with.

[JMichaelTX 4,105]

I don't use markdown much, so I don't know if this would satisfy those that do.

 

But what I would find useful is "Copy as markdown", so that I could copy selected text ( or the entire Note), copy markdown to the clipboard, ready to paste into another app that expects markdown text.

[Erico F. 2]

How I update for Beta 6.2?

[jemostrom@w 3]

Here is another interesting "feature". I have a Workflow script on my iPhone that generates some Markdown and then it translates this to HTML and sends it to Evernote. This works just fine but editing of the note have different behaviors on the web and in the Mac app.

 

If I look at the source of the note on the web the last two lines of the notes are two headers (which is exactly what is expected), like this

 

<h2>First header<h2>

<h3>Second header</h2>

 

If I now place the cursor at the end of the note and press return and type "Hello world" the resulting HTML is

 

<h2>First header</h2>

<h3>Second header</h3>

<div>Hello world</div>

 

(shouldn't that be a p-tag???). If I create a new note and do the exactly same thing in the Mac app then I get

 

<h2>First header</h2>

<div>

    <br>

</div>

<div style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px;" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px;">Second header</div>

<div style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px;" data-mce-style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px;">Hello world</div>

 

In other words I get an empty line between the two headers, the second header is changed to a div element and the text now gets some messy formattning.

 

I see several problems here, first the use of div elements instead of what to me looks like a typical p-tag (both web and mac), the insertion of an empty line, the change of a header element to a div tag and finally the unnecessary styling.

 

If I forget about the changes in HTML my user experience is that I get different results depending on where I edit the note!!

 

I do understand that editing of HTML is messy (and it's why I prefer Markdown and rendering when necessary) but not the different results.

[Erico F. 2]

 

Where is the Evernote for Mac 6.2 beta 1 download link?

 

If people would like to automatically get the beta releases, please go to Preferences : Software Update and check the "Update to beta versions when available" checkbox.  If you want to download directly you will always be able to find it in my original forum post but here it is again.  Mac 6.2 Beta 1.

 

Tks. I'll try this version. 

[macfixer 375]

hated reading the blog post yesterday. I hope everyone is doing ok. Is the mac team still in place or were there some here that were let go?

 

This is probably not the right spot for this posting 

[hosier.david 5]

 

Editing:  Rich Text WYSIWYG vs Markdown

 

While this thread is, in general, about the new EN Editor as exposed in EN Mac 6.2 Beta 1, the conversation seems to be dominated by posts about "Markdown".

 

My main concern at this point is that I hope Evernote developers do not become consumed by the new "Markdown" feature to the extent of ignoring most other features that have been requested for years, and hopefully are in the queue.

 

Evernote was designed from the beginning, and still is, to provide a rich text WYSIWYG editor.

I think that is what the large majority of Evernote users want.  If I'm wrong, hopefully someone from Evernote will correct me.

 

I understand that if you are using a plain text editor (not Evernote), that Markdown provides a simple, dumbed-downed, simple, alternative to HTML code to produce a nice, formatted, page when displayed by a browser, or Markdown preview app.

 

But if I am using a rich text, or HTML WYSIWYG, editor, what is the benefit of using Markdown in the content creation?  It seems to me that it will require a lot more typing, remembering the Markdown codes, and I still have to view in preview mode to make sure I have entered the correct codes.

So, where's the benefit?   What's the purpose?

 

With a rich text editor I have most of my formatting commands available as a keyboard shortcut.

Most of these are very well known, and even work cross-platform.

I see instantly, in real time, how the formatted textd will appear.

So why would I want to learn a new set of formatting codes, called "Markdown"?

 

There are many apps available for writers, many or most that support Markdown.

Frankly, I don't see Evernote as a strong writers tool (sorry Evernote managers/devs).

IMO, as I see it, Evernote is primarily a PIM (Personal Information Manager).

You can easily use it to create new notes by typing, web clipping, email-to-account, and even pasting the clipboard.

 

 

So, if one can easily, and reliably, create well formatted notes using the rich text editor, why would you want to use Markdown to create the Note, IF, you can easily export (copy) selected text, or the entire note, as plain text Markdown? 

 

 

The advantage for me in using Evernote, is the notebook and tagging system. I couldn't care less about WYSIWYG. My preference would be to type my notes in Markdown. I've been looking around, and I haven't seen anything that will give me that structure I want with a nice simple Markdown experience. I hear Evernote and others talking about how the WYSIWYG editor is the core of the product, but my impression is that it's the part that is constantly being changed and hammered with criticism about how bad it is. In my experience, the notebooks/tags/collections "just work", and that's what I like about Evernote. That's what I feel the core of Evernote is.

 

This is just awful how entering Markdown automatically converts the text you're typing. As several others have stated, I signed up to beta test because of the mention of Markdown in that blog post. Now I basically have no choice but uninstall the beta. Even if you do Format -> Make Plain Text, the note still converts Markdown to styled elements when you type. So I guess "Make Plain Text" doesn't mean what I think it means. And if you enter Markdown and let Evernote convert on the fly, and then you attempt to "Make Plain Text" when you're finished, you don't get what you typed in either (I'm looking at you unordered lists...). So without the ability to turn off the auto-formatting, I have to sadly go back to the stable version and abandon the beta test. I just hope that's not a painful process.

[EdH 1,668]

 

hated reading the blog post yesterday. I hope everyone is doing ok. Is the mac team still in place or were there some here that were let go?

 

This is probably not the right spot for this posting 

 

{shrug}

I interact with the mac developers here and I am asking out of concern. They can delete my posts if they feel it is inappropriate.

[spelljammer 1]

 

 

 

I'd like to second the call for real MarkDown support. FYI, the email that I received about the beta said: 

======

Brace yourselves! We’ve just released a bunch of exciting new features with Evernote for Mac 6.2 Beta 1. In this release, you can expect to test: 

• basic markdown 
• new toolbar
• window resizing
• Work Chat updates and more

Check out these new features and download the beta here:  https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/88677-evernote-for-mac-62-beta-1-released/

======

So, even in the email it is being called markdown. The blog post also calls it "basic markdown". So, unfortunately the expectation has been set in a number of places that what is coming is markdown support. Basic markdown, to me, means markdown without the Github extensions. It sounds like others were expecting that as well.

 

I really appreciate the effort being put in. I think its going to be tough walking back expectations on markdown support now given how the new editor was announced.

[dustinfarris 13]

I can't get over how disappointing this is.  I hope this "Markdown" toy can be turned off (and an option turn off that silly work chat thing while you're at it).  It just serves as an annoying reminder of how out of touch Evernote is.  $290 million in funding and years of asking for this, and this is the best you can do?

 

Obligatory repost: Evernote, The First Dead Unicorn

[PeeJayTee 99]

 

So, even in the email it is being called markdown. The blog post also calls it "basic markdown". So, unfortunately the expectation has been set in a number of places that what is coming is markdown support. Basic markdown, to me, means markdown without the Github extensions. It sounds like others were expecting that as well.

 

I really appreciate the effort being put in. I think its going to be tough walking back expectations on markdown support now given how the new editor was announced.

 

 

Agreed - and thanks. To be clear, I don't want to say that we're never going to add something called "markdown support" that meets the expectations - just not in this version.  What we've been considering is something similar to what @JMichael and @gelbander suggested - an easy way to import and export markdown to and from Evernote, but not changing the fact that at the end of the day, we're a rich text WYSIWYG editor. 

 

Since we have some folks who have some enthusiasm around this, I'll take the opportunity to ask.  Is this something that would meet your needs?

[dustinfarris 13]

 

Agreed - and thanks. To be clear, I don't want to say that we're never going to add something called "markdown support" that meets the expectations - just not in this version.  What we've been considering is something similar to what @JMichael and @gelbander suggested - an easy way to import and export markdown to and from Evernote, but not changing the fact that at the end of the day, we're a rich text WYSIWYG editor. 

 

Since we have some folks who have some enthusiasm around this, I'll take the opportunity to ask.  Is this something that would meet your needs?

 

No.  I think you guys are missing it.  We're not looking for another import/export option.  We're not looking for gimmicks like what is in this beta.  We're looking for the Markdown experience.  If that can possibly resonate with you, then you might begin to understand how sub-par the current editor feels to us, and how frustrating it is that zero headway has been made (current beta included—zero).

 

Again, look at an app like Day One.  Actually use it for a while.  They nailed it.  Perhaps achieving this experience means some fundamental rethinking of how Evernote handles and persists data.  It probably does.  But engineers and power users would love you for it.  And love goes a long way in tech.

[davemacdo 6]

 

Editing:  Rich Text WYSIWYG vs Markdown

 

While this thread is, in general, about the new EN Editor as exposed in EN Mac 6.2 Beta 1, the conversation seems to be dominated by posts about "Markdown".

 

My main concern at this point is that I hope Evernote developers do not become consumed by the new "Markdown" feature to the extent of ignoring most other features that have been requested for years, and hopefully are in the queue.

 

Evernote was designed from the beginning, and still is, to provide a rich text WYSIWYG editor.

I think that is what the large majority of Evernote users want.  If I'm wrong, hopefully someone from Evernote will correct me.

 

I understand that if you are using a plain text editor (not Evernote), that Markdown provides a simple, dumbed-downed, simple, alternative to HTML code to produce a nice, formatted, page when displayed by a browser, or Markdown preview app.

 

But if I am using a rich text, or HTML WYSIWYG, editor, what is the benefit of using Markdown in the content creation?  It seems to me that it will require a lot more typing, remembering the Markdown codes, and I still have to view in preview mode to make sure I have entered the correct codes.

So, where's the benefit?   What's the purpose?

 

With a rich text editor I have most of my formatting commands available as a keyboard shortcut.

Most of these are very well known, and even work cross-platform.

I see instantly, in real time, how the formatted textd will appear.

So why would I want to learn a new set of formatting codes, called "Markdown"?

 

There are many apps available for writers, many or most that support Markdown.

Frankly, I don't see Evernote as a strong writers tool (sorry Evernote managers/devs).

IMO, as I see it, Evernote is primarily a PIM (Personal Information Manager).

You can easily use it to create new notes by typing, web clipping, email-to-account, and even pasting the clipboard.

 

 

So, if one can easily, and reliably, create well formatted notes using the rich text editor, why would you want to use Markdown to create the Note, IF, you can easily export (copy) selected text, or the entire note, as plain text Markdown? 

 

 

Why use it? Portability. 

 

I would also add that one of the main features of Markdown is that it is very readable *without* any kind of rendering. (See what I did there?)

 

To the final question, with the current implementation, I actually *can't* write Markdown in Evernote because it immediately replaces my MD with rich text. 

 

Why do I want EN to support MD? It's simple: I want all my thoughts in one place. Right now, I have articles and images in Evernote, but I have to keep all my notes in Markdown in another application that supports it. (Also, I have to annotate my PDFs in another application, but the dumpster fire that is the Evernote PDF annotator is another discussion.)

[Bradley Chambers 8]

Is there going to be a way to copy Markdown written text back out in markdown format?

[rooguima 0]

The "Markdown" features is amazing, but isn't perfect. When I try to make a table with 1 column the evernote app don't processing the markdown([]x2). Another thing is the markdown code, the feature is some 1 line? Add more lines please, like marxico.com do.

[PeeJayTee 99]

No.  I think you guys are missing it.  We're not looking for another import/export option.  We're not looking for gimmicks like what is in this beta.  We're looking for the Markdown experience.  If that can possibly resonate with you, then you might begin to understand how sub-par the current editor feels to us, and how frustrating it is that zero headway has been made (current beta included—zero).

 

Again, look at an app like Day One.  Actually use it for a while.  They nailed it.  Perhaps achieving this experience means some fundamental rethinking of how Evernote handles and persists data.  It probably does.  But engineers and power users would love you for it.  And love goes a long way in tech.

 

 

Thanks.. this is exactly the feedback I was looking for.

 

I won't argue that our current experience is great - we're trying to get there but we've got a ways to go.  However, I don't necessarily agree that adding markdown support and creating a great writing experience are contingent upon each other.  Tools like Day One or IAWriter (I love that one) are really beautiful markdown editors.  Agreed.  However, In my opinion, there are also really great rich text editors as well.  I really like typing in Medium's editor, for example.  Evernote's new web editor, although young, is much more about creating a better writing experience. 

 

Sorry this update didn't do it for you.  We'll keep trying, but don't write us off just yet.

[PeeJayTee 99]

Is there going to be a way to copy Markdown written text back out in markdown format?

 

Not in this version, but would that be helpful?  What would you want to do with it?

[rdj999 22]

Markdown isn't "dumbed-down" HTML: it's economically-entered and -edited text annotated for the most commonly needed types of textual markup. Unlike rich text, it doesn't "surprise" you with extra blank lines (or none where you want them, such as between lengthy bullets) that force you to constantly experiment to "get around", nor completely prevent you from doing some things (like multi-paragraph bullets), nor does it obfuscate text editing and annotation when there's HTML behind it that you can't find a way to "escape".

 

Having to select text and adjust font size and embolden it and adjust spacing before and after it just to create headings is a pain! Prepending "#", "##", or "###" is much simpler (and more predictable.)

 

Creating a link with [this link](evernote://...) is a lot easier than typing "this link", highlighting it (being careful to avoid trailing punctuation), selecting a menu item, and pasting a URL. And fixing the link (or its text) is more straightforward in Markdown.

 

Internal links and footnotes? Can't even do those in rich text.

 

No, Markdown is simple enough for anyone to learn to use for most of how rich text is used yet sophisticated enough to provide great flexibility without getting in your way. That's why it's become so popular.

 

I am fine with Evernote not supporting Markdown at all. I am fine with Evernote providing Markdown as a text composition and editing option (and would love that, properly and fully implemented). I am fine with Evernote providing intelligent importing and exporting of Markdown. But I'm not fine with Markdown being done "halfway" nor in ways that violate its fundamental design principles of simplicity, touch-typed entry, predictability, and – for sophisticated users – great power that WYSIWYG simply can't approach.

[Dan Wilson 85]

I don't use Markdown regularly, but I do think that the ability to write in MD with a MD previewer in Evernote would be useful to me*.  But I agree with an earlier post (I think it was by Marcus) that MD is not a central focus of Evernote nor should it be.  Evernote is a rich text editor and more, website clipper, screenshot annotator, scanner etc, that is incredibly useful to me.

 

I also agree that having the current implementation of basic MD (text replacement) is not faster than most of the existing keyboard shortcuts and can be a hinderance to anyone drafting something in MD.

 

*I have a Wordpress blog that supports MD and I pretty much always write my posts in Evernote.  To be able to write in MD would solve my formatting headaches.

[PeeJayTee 99]

Here's an example of why what you're doing is going to just aggravate the heck out of those of us who use Markdown elsewhere. Type three dashes and hit CR to get one of the fancy horizontal lines. Then hit backspace. The whole line disappears. What one would reasonably expect to happen is the fancy line reverts back to three dashes with the cursor positioned following the third dash on the same line.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post - the above issue is a bug and has been logged.

 

 

As another example, your basic markdown syntax is broken: you don't allow "newlines" between markdown notations! For example:

 

*here

there*

 

should display both words in italics. Yours doesn't. That's why people can't get "code markup" to work: they are probably trying to put a backtick at the beginning and end of the code, and of course, nothing happens. Surely you don't expect them to wrap each line in its own set of backticks?

 

This was actually intentional.  We're admittedly being conservative with the replacement out of the gates.  We plan on adding proper code blocks in a future release... it's not included in this version, however.  In the meantime, please don't wrap each line in backticks - that sounds terrible

[macfixer 375]

 

No.  I think you guys are missing it.  We're not looking for another import/export option.  We're not looking for gimmicks like what is in this beta.  We're looking for the Markdown experience.  If that can possibly resonate with you, then you might begin to understand how sub-par the current editor feels to us, and how frustrating it is that zero headway has been made (current beta included—zero).

 

Again, look at an app like Day One.  Actually use it for a while.  They nailed it.  Perhaps achieving this experience means some fundamental rethinking of how Evernote handles and persists data.  It probably does.  But engineers and power users would love you for it.  And love goes a long way in tech.

 

 

Thanks.. this is exactly the feedback I was looking for.

 

I won't argue that our current experience is great - we're trying to get there but we've got a ways to go.  However, I don't necessarily agree that adding markdown support and creating a great writing experience are contingent upon each other.  Tools like Day One or IAWriter (I love that one) are really beautiful markdown editors.  Agreed.  However, In my opinion, there are also really great rich text editors as well.  I really like typing in Medium's editor, for example.  Evernote's new web editor, although young, is much more about creating a better writing experience. 

 

Sorry this update didn't do it for you.  We'll keep trying, but don't write us off just yet.

 

 

Thank you for your honesty, and your candor. It makes us feel loved.

[JMichaelTX 4,105]

I would prefer a special markdown mode that can be toggled on/off as provided by the Markdown Here Firefox Add-On that I use for the Web client.

 

 

I agree.

 

Although there is clearly a sizable number of users who prefer to work in markdown mode, that is not true for all of us.

Like @Stuhrer, I also often want to just enter a number at the start of a line without starting an HTML list.

 

As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, I suspect those who prefer markdown would also prefer a mode switch, so that when markdown is "ON", then the editor stays in plain text allowing the full set of markdown code.

When the markdown is "OFF", then the editor would be in rich text mode, which would allow rich text, WYSIWYG editing, and would convert any markdown text that had been entered in the "ON" mode.

 

To keep things simple, perhaps you could set a Note as either "Rich Text" or "Markdown".

If "Markdown", then editing would only be supported in the markdown mode, with a read-only preview option showing rich text converted from the markdown.

When a copy of text is made, Evernote should put the following on the clipboard:

1. Plain Text (which would be the markdown text)
2. Rich Text
3. HTML code of the rich text

Let me conclude by saying the having markdown support is not a big priority for me.

I know that for many others, it is one of their top priorities.

So I hope Evernote has some way to set priorities based on expected/projected number of users who need a particular feature.

[rdj999 22]

Here's another thing that demonstrates to me this is a really bad idea without per-document toggles: I can paste Markdown text into Evernote, or email it to create a new note, but I can't edit its text once it's in Evernote without risking that it will garble it. That means i can't use Evernote for round-trip workflows involving Markdown and Evernote. That's a problem...

[Little_Sun 3]

Great work. I love the shrinking sidebar, the new editor, and of course the markdown functionality. 

 

A question: is it possible to also show the shortcut when the sidebar is shrunk? Thanks.  

[EdH 1,668]

FYI - my column widths in list-view got trashed again, as per this post. Not an install. I had just totally shut EN down and later relaunched it. It doesn't happen every time - in fact, I tried 3 more times to get it to happen and couldn't - but there is something causing this. I am using List View.

[dsudduth 1]

So far, really enjoying the Markdown.  As an Engineer this is huge for me.  Are there plans to support Headings?  At a minimum, it would be great if the in-built Markdown was on par with the Sublime Text plugin.

[manfredell 0]

Just updated to El Cap and I'm running EN 6.2b1

It's acting strange: when I open it the main window does not appear, I have to click on the dock icon again for it to show after a few secs.

 

Applescripts do not work anymore, e.g. I have one defined in Hazel which moves a file into a Evernote notenook when a certain file appears oin a folder. Has been working fine until El Cap.

 

tell application "Evernote"
    activate
    create note from file theFile notebook {"Auszuege"} tags {"Sparkasse"}
end tell

 

Now I get:

2015-10-02 09:35:56.670 hazelworker[831] [Error] AppleScript failed: Error executing AppleScript on file /Users/manfredell/Downloads/Konto_79165505-Auszug_2015_009.PDF.
2015-10-02 09:35:56.671 hazelworker[831] OSAScript error: {
    NSLocalizedDescription = "Evernote got an error: AppleEvent timed out.";
    NSLocalizedFailureReason = "AppleEvent timed out.";
    OSAScriptErrorAppAddressKey = "<NSAppleEventDescriptor: [0x0,5b05b \"Evernote\"]>";
    OSAScriptErrorAppNameKey = Evernote;
    OSAScriptErrorBriefMessageKey = "AppleEvent timed out.";
    OSAScriptErrorMessageKey = "Evernote got an error: AppleEvent timed out.";
    OSAScriptErrorNumberKey = "-1712";
    OSAScriptErrorRangeKey = "NSRange: {0, 0}";
}
 

Also dragging a file into the dock icon to create a new note with it stopped working.

 

I have premium because of it working so fine but it now is a PITA!

[SoftwareMarcus 388]

Great work. I love the shrinking sidebar, the new editor, and of course the markdown functionality. 

 

A question: is it possible to also show the shortcut when the sidebar is shrunk? Thanks.  

 

Thanks for letting us know you like the shrinking sidebar and new editor.  Currently we do not support shortcuts in the mini-sidebar.  This is what I meant when I said it's really meant as a temporary sidebar for when the window is narrow.  Would you use it more if it had shortcuts?

[pgdahl 133]

• Finally we’ve completely redesigned our note editor toolbars.  They are responsive which means as you shrink the note editor the toolbar also shrinks and instead of having formatting buttons disappear they will be added to a pop-down toolbar that can still be accessed when there’s not a lot of room.    Also new is that if you have a large monitor all of the toolbars will become a single row of icons giving your writing space a bigger area.

 

I really like the new editor toolbar. It adresses almost all of the issues I had with the original 6.0 editor. The icons are clear and easily distinguishable from each other, the sharing information is subtle and out of the way but tells you everything you need. I still think the Title could benefit from being more distinct from the copy in the note, but it's only a beta