(Archived) Confused About Notebooks

[crane 40]

I'll admit to being confused about the concept of notebooks. Well, I guess they make sense if that's how we're going to distinguish what notes we want to sync or not sync. But I find it confusing to be in a notebook with 3 notes, and yet to see all of my tags with larger numbers, e.g.,

For example, I see that I've selected a notebook with exactly three notes. But then I see that I've got a @next action tag with 5 notes, and a @waiting tag with 8 notes. Obviously, the tags and the saved searches are across all notebooks.

I don't know exactly what my problem is, but I just find this kind of counter-intuitive. Maybe somebody can help me wrap my head around it.

Maybe it would be better if the tags/saved search changed according to what notebook you have open? I dunno.

[marcclarke 0]

I'm in the same confused boat about the new concept of "notebooks". If I could turn one or more off, I would be in good shape, but the only right-click menu option I see is "delete", which terrifies me as I don't want to delete my notebook, I just want to take it out of the set of currently-displayed notebooks.

In EN 2.2 I had many separate databases so I could focus my brain only on the category tree and note list for that one database, without having the rest of my 1,000+ other categories and my 10,000+ other notes cluttering up the veiw (and my brain, my brain is very tiny, and I have to conserve brain space at all costs).

Part of the "Essence of EverNote 2.2" is not having to look at what I don't want to look at. So in EN 3.0 Beta if I have 50 databases (oops, I meant to say "notebooks") how do I turn off all but one so my brain doesn't explode? :?:

[marcclarke 0]

Crane, the more I work with EN 3.0 Beta Notebooks, the more confused about them I become. There is a new search tag "notebook:" so I can make a saved search only within one notebook. That is nice.

But as far as I can tell the concept of an EN 3.0 Beta "notebook" is not at all the same as EN 2.2 "database", as under EN 3.0 Beta all the "notebooks" reside within the single database file over in the new My EverNote Files \ Databases3 folder. I had thought there would be one file per "notebook" in the Databases3 folder. Not so.

So far pretty much the entire Account menu structure is a mystery to me.

There does not seem to be a way to "turn off" a notebook. If one deletes a notebook that notebook is just plain gone, rather than suppressed from the display. The "Close" option seems to close my current EverNote web service account so I can log into another one (can I have more than one?). Similarly, "Switch" seems to do the same. There is (so far) zero documentation about the Account menu.

So I'm baffled. Thus far a "notebook" looks like just another manually assigned tag (but one I can't unassign unless I drag-drop notes from one notebook to another (I haven't tested that yet)).

[engberg 89]

So I'm baffled. Thus far a "notebook" looks like just another manually assigned tag (but one I can't unassign unless I drag-drop notes from one notebook to another (I haven't tested that yet)).

"Notebooks" and "tags" are two different metaphors, which may be useful to different people.

A notebook is an exclusive container that holds notes ... think of it as a "folder" in an operating system. Every note is in exactly one notebook. People who are used to the folder metaphor from operating systems and mail clients may find it useful to organize their notes based on notebooks.

A tag is a label that can be added to notes. A note may have one or more tags on it, and you may have notes with no tags at all if you like. People who are used to tagging/labeling/categorizing in (e.g.) Web 2.0 systems may find it useful to use tags to organize their notes.

We don't expect every user to want to use both of these metaphors for organizing their notes. (In fact, I expect a fair number of people just will throw all of their notes in a single notebook and use our enhanced search capabilities instead of spending a lot of time organizing.) On the other hand, we feel that there are a lot of people who feel more comfortable with either exclusive (notebooks) or many-to-many (tag) organization, so we wanted people to have both options.

[iafanasyev 1]

I'll admit to being confused about the concept of notebooks. Well, I guess they make sense if that's how we're going to distinguish what notes we want to sync or not sync. But I find it confusing to be in a notebook with 3 notes, and yet to see all of my tags with larger numbers, e.g.,

[attachment=0]notebooks.png[/attachment]

For example, I see that I've selected a notebook with exactly three notes. But then I see that I've got a @next action tag with 5 notes, and a @waiting tag with 8 notes. Obviously, the tags and the saved searches are across all notebooks.

On your screenshot, you see that "@next" tag tells you "(0 of 5)", not just "(5)", and is grayed out (because of the first "0"). This means that in your "INBOX" notebook, there are 0 notes tagged with "@next". But across all notebooks, there are 5 such notes. So if you visually filter out the grayed-out tags, the others will represent what tags are related (or intersect) with the currently selected notebook.

[crane 40]

I think it comes down to the fact that using notebooks to separate notes would be more useful if the tags/saved searches also changed as you change notebooks. If we were to bring all of our separate databases into the new EN, and treat each as a separate notebook, we'll end us seeing literally thousands of tags. Some tags will have absolutely no relevant for some notebooks. Imagine a notebook for wine tasting vs. a notebook for medical ailments. The two sets of tags are mutually exclusive, for the most part.

Not being able to filter by notebook, e.g., hide a notebook and its associated tags, means that we're stuck seeing more information all at once. That doesn't make it easier for us to use, it makes it harder.

[iafanasyev 1]

I think it comes down to the fact that using notebooks to separate notes would be more useful if the tags/saved searches also changed as you change notebooks. If we were to bring all of our separate databases into the new EN, and treat each as a separate notebook, we'll end us seeing literally thousands of tags. Some tags will have absolutely no relevant for some notebooks. Imagine a notebook for wine tasting vs. a notebook for medical ailments. The two sets of tags are mutually exclusive, for the most part.

Not being able to filter by notebook, e.g., hide a notebook and its associated tags, means that we're stuck seeing more information all at once. That doesn't make it easier for us to use, it makes it harder.

We are considering an option of hiding all the tags with zero matches (i.e. hide tags instead of graying them out). With such an option, you will see only tags that are relevant to current notebook, or to the current selection in general.

[crane 40]

We are considering an option of hiding all the tags with zero matches (i.e. hide tags instead of graying them out). With such an option, you will see only tags that are relevant to current notebook, or to the current selection in general.

I think that would help.

[marcclarke 0]

I think it comes down to the fact that using notebooks to separate notes would be more useful if the tags/saved searches also changed as you change notebooks. If we were to bring all of our separate databases into the new EN, and treat each as a separate notebook, we'll end us seeing literally thousands of tags. Some tags will have absolutely no relevant for some notebooks. Imagine a notebook for wine tasting vs. a notebook for medical ailments. The two sets of tags are mutually exclusive, for the most part.

Not being able to filter by notebook, e.g., hide a notebook and its associated tags, means that we're stuck seeing more information all at once. That doesn't make it easier for us to use, it makes it harder.

We are considering an option of hiding all the tags with zero matches (i.e. hide tags instead of graying them out). With such an option, you will see only tags that are relevant to current notebook, or to the current selection in general.

That would help reduce visual clutter in the EN 3.0 Beta PC UI tremendously. Yes, please, if at all possible.

[salgud 12]

I think it comes down to the fact that using notebooks to separate notes would be more useful if the tags/saved searches also changed as you change notebooks. If we were to bring all of our separate databases into the new EN, and treat each as a separate notebook, we'll end us seeing literally thousands of tags. Some tags will have absolutely no relevant for some notebooks. Imagine a notebook for wine tasting vs. a notebook for medical ailments. The two sets of tags are mutually exclusive, for the most part.

Not being able to filter by notebook, e.g., hide a notebook and its associated tags, means that we're stuck seeing more information all at once. That doesn't make it easier for us to use, it makes it harder.

We are considering an option of hiding all the tags with zero matches (i.e. hide tags instead of graying them out). With such an option, you will see only tags that are relevant to current notebook, or to the current selection in general.

That would help reduce visual clutter in the EN 3.0 Beta PC UI tremendously. Yes, please, if at all possible.

Since I still don't have access to the beta, I'm flying blind here, but wouldn't hiding the zero-match tags mean that to go to those tags, you'd have to click somewhere to "show all tags"?

[iafanasyev 1]

Since I still don't have access to the beta, I'm flying blind here, but wouldn't hiding the zero-match tags mean that to go to those tags, you'd have to click somewhere to "show all tags"?

This depends on the realization:

- first option is to unconditionally hide all the tags that do not intersect with the currently selected notebook. If you want to show all notes from all notebooks, you just select the 'All notebooks' item

- second option is to hide the tags that have zero matches in current query state (combination of the selected notebook, tags, and other search parameters from the search bar). This option ("[x] Dynamically hide tags with zero matches") could be accessible dynamically from the tag context menu, so you could switch easily between two modes.

- we could implement the first option, the second option, or both at the same time.

[cctiger2 21]

Since I still don't have access to the beta, I'm flying blind here, but wouldn't hiding the zero-match tags mean that to go to those tags, you'd have to click somewhere to "show all tags"?

This depends on the realization:

- first option is to unconditionally hide all the tags that do not intersect with the currently selected notebook. If you want to show all notes from all notebooks, you just select the 'All notebooks' item

- second option is to hide the tags that have zero matches in current query state (combination of the selected notebook, tags, and other search parameters from the search bar). This option ("[x] Dynamically hide tags with zero matches") could be accessible dynamically from the tag context menu, so you could switch easily between two modes.

- we could implement the first option, the second option, or both at the same time.

I'd like to add my two cents here - I fully support the idea of implementing both of these options. As I have been thinking of ways to shift my thinking a bit from the way's I've been used to in EN2, I really like the idea of notebooks - not having to remember which database I stuck which note in. (ie - Did I put that note about nutrition in my "notes" database or my "food" database?) I also like the idea of being able to tag notes from multiple notebooks with the same tag. (ie - my "work" note book contains articles to read, and my "home" notebook also contains articles to read. It'd be nice to keep them separate (notebooks) but have the option to view all my "articles" at the same time as well.

That being said, I agree with Crane - Many tags have relevance only to their specific notebook. (My "crockpot" tag applies only to my recipes notebook and has nothing whatsoever to do with my work projects notebook.)

Therefore - I love the "best of both worlds" proposed here. Let us hide irrelevant tags (those with zero notes in the current notebook or query) when we want to, show all tags when we want to, and switch easily between the two. Yes please! Implement both option one at two at the same time.

[vogelap 27]

We are considering an option of hiding all the tags with zero matches (i.e. hide tags instead of graying them out). With such an option, you will see only tags that are relevant to current notebook, or to the current selection in general.

That is an excellent idea. I don't think my boss wants to (or should) see my non-work related tags when we're reviewing my work-related notebooks. Make it configurable to use the new method for those that prefer it, too.

[dhemery 0]

- first option is to unconditionally hide all the tags that do not intersect with the currently selected notebook. If you want to show all notes from all notebooks, you just select the 'All notebooks' item

- second option is to hide the tags that have zero matches in current query state (combination of the selected notebook, tags, and other search parameters from the search bar). This option ("[x] Dynamically hide tags with zero matches") could be accessible dynamically from the tag context menu, so you could switch easily between two modes.

- we could implement the first option, the second option, or both at the same time.

The second option is essential for me. This will relieve a lot of scrolling for me.

Dale

[vogelap 27]

- first option is to unconditionally hide all the tags that do not intersect with the currently selected notebook. If you want to show all notes from all notebooks, you just select the 'All notebooks' item

- second option is to hide the tags that have zero matches in current query state (combination of the selected notebook, tags, and other search parameters from the search bar). This option ("[x] Dynamically hide tags with zero matches") could be accessible dynamically from the tag context menu, so you could switch easily between two modes.

- we could implement the first option, the second option, or both at the same time.

The second option is essential for me. This will relieve a lot of scrolling for me.

I agree with Dale, though the operation should be toggle-able so the user can have it the way they want it.