Derisive Spamming by Moderator BurgersNFries toward "Free Users"

[jeffersonkim 2]

Who moderates the Moderators?

The moderator BurgersNFries copied and pasted this general post into three forums in regards to complaints by free users on the more frequent pop up for upgrades to Premium:

"It would seem their previous "business model" was not all that successful, if they are needing to be more aggressive about getting paying customers.  Lots of people have threatened to move to Onenote...if the ads are so bothersome but you're not willing to pay for EN, then I say go for it.

As someone who paid for Evernote for several years and has since moved away from it (to Onenote), I would say it's annoying as heck to see so many free users complaining about having to pay for the service b/c of ___  (fill in the blank with your grievance).  Do you honestly think any company is going to lose sleep over losing non-paying customers...???"


https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/86362-nagging/#entry368266

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/86327-pop-up-notice-to-upgrade-to-premium/#entry368265

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/86186-turn-off-the-nag/page-2#entry368264


As a company policy, I would generally think Moderators are restricted from discouraging honest feedback from its users, regardless of their paid status. It would seem counter-productive for Evernote moderators to actively call out the complaints of its free users as "annoying as heck." And then to state that the value of the complaints of its free users are of such little importance with the rhetorical question regarding "lose sleep over losing non-paying customers"

Even if the Moderator has a valid point (which I believe it does). The derisive tone of the message, and the blatant copy and paste, seems to be counterproductive toward the overall mission of Evernote as a company to increase its user base and obtain the feedback of all its users.

[CalS 5,280]

BnF is not an Evernote employee, just another user like the rest of us.  I think it is safe to say she does not intend to speak for the company. 

 

I agree with her that at some point folks just need to move on, one way or the other.  If you are a free user and you don't like how EN handled their tiered pricing changes, let them know and go where you will for your solution.  But the threats and vitriol, the questioning of the integrity of the company, what's up with that?

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Who moderates the Moderators?

. . .

As a company policy, I would generally think Moderators are restricted from discouraging honest feedback from its users, regardless of their paid status. It would seem counter-productive for Evernote moderators to actively call out the complaints of its free users as "annoying as heck." And then to state that the value of the complaints of its free users are of such little importance with the rhetorical question regarding "lose sleep over losing non-paying customers"

 

The pseudo "moderators" are moderated by the Evernote employees who are the true owners/moderators of these forums.  

gbarry is the lead community coordinator (you could call him the "chief moderator") .  His forum title is "Admin in Residence"

 

In Aug 2014, Evernote made a major change in how "moderators" are authorized in these forums.

Since then, Evernote "moderators" have not been like the moderators appointed in most forums.

In fact, no one is designated as a "moderator".  BNF has chosen that title herself, when in fact she has no more power than any other forum member with 300 posts or more.

 

If you have an issue with any post by any person ("moderator" or not), you can always use the "Report" link to report your concern to an Evernote employee.  Of course you can also PM GBarry with any of your concerns.

 

For more info see:

Moderation and Member Leveling Changes to the Forum

[heysherri 12]

So, a poster with the self proclaimed title of Moderator is spamming the forums upsetting users who are already a little disgruntled and pointing them towards a competing product.

 

Very clever secret OneNote employee, very clever.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

BNF has chosen that title herself

No I did not. That's how it was after the moderator changes were implemented. And even with the new moderator changes implemented, I am, well, still a moderator after all. So what?

So, a poster with the self proclaimed title of Moderator is spamming the forums upsetting users who are already a little disgruntled and pointing them towards a competing product.

 

Very clever secret OneNote employee, very clever.

I'm not pointing users to anything. They are threatening to leave and Onenote has been mentioned by angry free users many, many times in recent threads. So my suggestion is very clear. Quite simply, if you're annoyed b/c you now have to pay for something that was free and this "valuable" service is not valuable enough for you to drop a few bucks a month on, then simply switch to something that better suits your needs. And I stand by my statement...losing non-paying customers really is no big deal.

And sorry to disappoint, but as clever as you think you are, I do not work for MS.

People have become so accustomed to free software that they have developed a sense of entitlement.  Why should they have to PAY for software???

 

Developers do not often write software wholly because they are being philanthropic and feel inclined to gift the world with a wonderful, useful, FREE piece of software.  They do it because they want an income in order to pay their rent, buy groceries and shoes for their children.  Most software that has much value has some sort of limitation, unless you pay.  Sometimes it's a trial version.  Sometimes it's a version with ads.  And sometimes, it's a free version with limited features. 

 

I do understand it's upsetting when a feature you have been using in one version requires you to upgrade to another version.  But it happens ALL THE TIME.  I have used ACDSee Photo Manager software for about 15 years.  And every year or two, I have to pay for an upgrade b/c there are new features or else b/c the old version doesn't work under my new OS or...whatever. 

 

But it is the developer's right to revoke some free features.  In fact, any good dev has an obligation to their paying customers (and employees) to do their best to stay profitable.  Why?  Because the paying users have found value in the software and most times will want to continue to use it and have invested their $$$ in the app by supporting it financially.  And of course, the employees want to have a regular income.  Most of us do not want to devote a lot of time & energy into our jobs and then not get paid. 

 

If the complainers will please note, no one (i repeat NO ONE) has stated you cannot or should not voice your opinion that you are upset by this decision.  However, for those of you who show a sense of entitlement (draconian???  seriously???), I would simply say, if it's not worth a years worth of a paid version of Evernote to you, then it would appear that feature really wasn't that useful to you.  If money is tight, there are creative ways such as asking family & friends to gift you with a subscription for birthdays, anniversaries or Christmas.  Or referring friends in order to get points. 

 

I don't get why notes would then be abandoned. As in, one just gives up. There are many ways to get the content of emails into Evernote, not to mention copy-paste. I guess it's purely a case of semantics here. Was just curious.

And yes, the thread title is laced with drama.  It would seem to me if the lack of this one feature on the free version of Evernote is dramatic enough to cause one to abandon Evernote, then one would instead be willing to pay for it.  But I'm not into drama...  So it boils down to this...if it's worth a few bucks to you, then fine.  If not, that's fine too.  Good luck with finding an app that better suits your needs.

[Frank.dg 1,385]

I think one really has to see the bigger picture to pass any sort of judgment. And one can only see the bigger picture if one has stuck around for some time. I do understand that some long-time forum users' posts may come across as blunt on occasion... And so have mine at times. I get that. But look at the (tens of) thousands of posts under a user's belt not as an indication of monopoly of opinion... But more as a clue as to how much backbreaking time has gone into helping other users out over the long haul. That's got to count for a heck of a lot.

As jarring as certain comments might be, they need to be put into the context of the original threads. Users who give ultimatums and are less than polite - or in this case - feel entitled to shout the odds about a great service not being entirely free - well, it is not out of the ordinary to expect some sort of a rebuttal from anyone (including long-time forum users) who appreciates Evernote for what it is and/ or sees it as only fair to pay for a service that one derives much from, failing which, to at least work within the (generous) limitations Evernote has given to non-paying members without demanding what is unreasonable to demand in a most nonsensical way.

[heysherri 12]

I've left Evernote running in the background since yesterday afternoon and haven't encountered the popup.  I'm confident having an always on top popup that takes over customers computers every few hours even while the program is minimized and the user is busy working in another program was not intended and has been or will be fixed.  No legitimate business would intentionally turn their product into malware like that.  As for a fan of Evernote championing their product, I'm sure the company appreciates you BurgersNFries, but with help like your's who needs trolls from competing companies executing guerrilla marketing campaigns on their forums? 

[chirmer 567]

Even if the Moderator has a valid point (which I believe it does). The derisive tone of the message, and the blatant copy and paste, seems to be counterproductive toward the overall mission of Evernote as a company to increase its user base and obtain the feedback of all its users.

 

Well, if people used the forum search tools instead of creating new threads for already hashed topics, she'd only have to say it once

 

To cut the snark and be serious, though, these forums are mostly users. The plethora of people coming into the forums to complain about the pricing, instead of trying to start honest discussion on it, is tiring and is addressing the wrong group of people. We are all here because we like Evernote and want to talk about it. It's the Mac Redesign threads all over again. Discussion is great! But when so so so so so so many threads are just "I hate this new pricing and am leaving for OneNote, bye", it's tiring. We are not who you should be saying that to. If you want help figuring out how you can adjust your workflow to the new pricing plan, yay! That's where everyone is welcome to pop in here. We all love that chat. And if you look through most moderators' posts from their profile, you'll see that they (including BnF) are very active in voicing their displeasure with changes Evernote implements that they don't like. As long as it's productive. You'll find many moderators, including BnF, who won't hesitate to recommend a different product if they think it'll be better for you than Evernote. It's a pretty great place to have worthwhile discussion.

 

The ratio of staff to users of Evernote on this forum is astoundingly scaled towards users. This isn't the place to have a complaint heard, at least not by anyone who can do a lick about it. Submit a support ticket. Tweet @evernote or @evernotehelps. That's a beeline to staff. We're just regular ol' people with a little green elephant in our docks/toolbars.

[heysherri 12]

 

Even if the Moderator has a valid point (which I believe it does). The derisive tone of the message, and the blatant copy and paste, seems to be counterproductive toward the overall mission of Evernote as a company to increase its user base and obtain the feedback of all its users.

 

Well, if people used the forum search tools instead of creating new threads for already hashed topics, she'd only have to say it once

 

To cut the snark and be serious, though, these forums are mostly users. The plethora of people coming into the forums to complain about the pricing, instead of trying to start honest discussion on it, is tiring and is addressing the wrong group of people. We are all here because we like Evernote and want to talk about it. It's the Mac Redesign threads all over again. Discussion is great! But when so so so so so so many threads are just "I hate this new pricing and am leaving for OneNote, bye", it's tiring. We are not who you should be saying that to. If you want help figuring out how you can adjust your workflow to the new pricing plan, yay! That's where everyone is welcome to pop in here. We all love that chat. And if you look through most moderators' posts from their profile, you'll see that they (including BnF) are very active in voicing their displeasure with changes Evernote implements that they don't like. As long as it's productive. You'll find many moderators, including BnF, who won't hesitate to recommend a different product if they think it'll be better for you than Evernote. It's a pretty great place to have worthwhile discussion.

 

The ratio of staff to users of Evernote on this forum is astoundingly scaled towards users. This isn't the place to have a complaint heard, at least not by anyone who can do a lick about it. Submit a support ticket. Tweet @evernote or @evernotehelps. That's a beeline to staff. We're just regular ol' people with a little green elephant in our docks/toolbars.

 

 

chirmer, 

 

The Mac Product Feedback forum has the following description: "Let us know what you think about Evernote Mac--discuss feature and design feedback here."  It is precisely the place for customers to tell the company what they think.  What's inappropriate is other users coming into that forum with a desire to censure feedback.  For BNF to express that he is tired of reading feedback from other users in the feedback forum is interesting.  My suggestion would be that he not visit the feedback forums and perhaps point users who dislike certain features to those forums. The company is asking for feedback in those forums.  They are free to consider or ignore feedback as they see fit and don't need other users championing them there.

[Frank.dg 1,385]

It would be interesting to be championed. That could mean to be thrown mushrooms at by a Brazilian... or someone like the Viper stepping in for Tyrion for a fight to the death. While both might be cool, I think they'd take a bit of energy and/ or cleaning up.

 

 

EDIT: We can broaden that list to: Brazilians, the French and Spanish speakers. Food fight!!

[heysherri 12]

It would be interesting to be championed. That could mean to be thrown mushrooms at by a Brazillian... or someone like the Viper stepping in for Tyrion for a fight to the death. While both might be cool, I think they'd take a bit of energy and/ or cleaning up.

 

BNF does strike me as the sort of white knight who would set out on a quest to protect corporations from windmills. 

[Frank.dg 1,385]

 

It would be interesting to be championed. That could mean to be thrown mushrooms at by a Brazillian... or someone like the Viper stepping in for Tyrion for a fight to the death. While both might be cool, I think they'd take a bit of energy and/ or cleaning up.

 

BNF does strike me as the sort of white knight who would set out on a quest to protect corporations from windmills. 

 

 

 

Ok... that's it... choose your weapon.

[heysherri 12]

 

 

It would be interesting to be championed. That could mean to be thrown mushrooms at by a Brazillian... or someone like the Viper stepping in for Tyrion for a fight to the death. While both might be cool, I think they'd take a bit of energy and/ or cleaning up.

 

BNF does strike me as the sort of white knight who would set out on a quest to protect corporations from windmills. 

 

 

 

Ok... that's it... choose your weapon.

 

 

[CalS 5,280]

Not sure about the white knight thing, might be more a Brienne of Tarth kind of thing.

[chirmer 567]

chirmer, 

 

The Mac Product Feedback forum has the following description: "Let us know what you think about Evernote Mac--discuss feature and design feedback here."  It is precisely the place for customers to tell the company what they think.  What's inappropriate is other users coming into that forum with a desire to censure feedback.

Complaints with no beneficial information (or to just whine) ≠ Feedback. People who come in to say "These popups are annoying, I will never pay for Evernote and I don't want to see these all the time" aren't giving feedback. If you'll never pay for Evernote, I'm pretty sure they don't care about your opinion. They'll never get a dime from you. They might, however, get some dimes from people who see those popups and keep the option in the back of their mind. Granted, I do agree that 2-3 times a day is a LOT and an Evernote employee has already said it's a bug. Letting Evernote staff know how frequently they pop up and that THAT is annoying is feedback.

 

What's inappropriate is having multiple threads started on the same topic. It's common forum etiquette to do a search for your topic before posting a new thread. Disagreeing with the complainers, or offering reasons why Evernote has those popups, or copy/pasting the same response to the same three questions asked three times, is not censuring. Unless you think anyone disagreeing with you is censorship It's offering a different perspective, reasoning, or feedback to the user. This is not the first time Evernote has implemented popups (and not the first time they've been overzealous with them, either). Explaining this, or giving reasonable, if disappointing, responses to the kvetching, is not "championing." 

 

And if you think BnF white-knights Evernote, you should explore the forums some more There's an entire thread on people disappointed with Evernote and looking for alternatives. Read her posts there and see if you can come back to her posts mentioned here with new perspective. I think you'll find many assumptions made about her to be proven false with a bit of exploring more threads.

[heysherri 12]

 

chirmer, 

 

The Mac Product Feedback forum has the following description: "Let us know what you think about Evernote Mac--discuss feature and design feedback here."  It is precisely the place for customers to tell the company what they think.  What's inappropriate is other users coming into that forum with a desire to censure feedback.

Complaints with no beneficial information (or to just whine) ≠ Feedback. People who come in to say "These popups are annoying, I will never pay for Evernote and I don't want to see these all the time" aren't giving feedback. If you'll never pay for Evernote, I'm pretty sure they don't care about your opinion. They'll never get a dime from you. They might, however, get some dimes from people who see those popups and keep the option in the back of their mind. Granted, I do agree that 2-3 times a day is a LOT and an Evernote employee has already said it's a bug. Letting Evernote staff know how frequently they pop up and that THAT is annoying is feedback.

 

What's inappropriate is having multiple threads started on the same topic. It's common forum etiquette to do a search for your topic before posting a new thread. Disagreeing with the complainers, or offering reasons why Evernote has those popups, or copy/pasting the same response to the same three questions asked three times, is not censuring. Unless you think anyone disagreeing with you is censorship It's offering a different perspective, reasoning, or feedback to the user. This is not the first time Evernote has implemented popups (and not the first time they've been overzealous with them, either). Explaining this, or giving reasonable, if disappointing, responses to the kvetching, is not "championing." 

 

And if you think BnF white-knights Evernote, you should explore the forums some more There's an entire thread on people disappointed with Evernote and looking for alternatives. Read her posts there and see if you can come back to her posts mentioned here with new perspective. I think you'll find many assumptions made about her to be proven false with a bit of exploring more threads.

 

 

 

It's a bug, but in your estimation pointing out that bug is not productive feedback?  Your argument becomes blatantly ridiculous at this point.  I would point out that I have subscribed to Evernote and would again if and when I need the bandwith, but the level of a user's subscription is irrelevant to bug reporting.  When I came to the Evernote forums I was not expecting to encounter video game console war type fanboys, but such it is.  Fascinating. Some people are really passionate about productivity tools.  Fun.

[Frank.dg 1,385]

 

When I came to the Evernote forums I was not expecting to encounter video game console war type fanboys, but such it is. 

 

 

???

 

I never expected to see bananas... but such it is.

[heysherri 12]

 

 

When I came to the Evernote forums I was not expecting to encounter video game console war type fanboys, but such it is. 

 

 

???

 

I never expected to see bananas... but such it is.

 

 

Listen Mr. Frank, I shared my picture of a banana gun with you FOR FREE.  I don't want any of you whiners complaining about it until you start paying me royalties on every post you make that mentions fruit.  And that bruised spot is not a bug, it's a feature.  The fruit-flies might be bugs, but I'm too tired to hear about them.  

 

PS: Whiners.

 

PPS: It was cool of you to try to help my angry friend over in the Mac Product Feedback forum who started the whiners thread there.  Too bad he seemed too angry to stick around and join the fun here in the Evernote community forums.  His lack of humor and passion for being respected would have been assets. 

[Frank.dg 1,385]

Someone here hasn't watched "Game of Thrones" yet. I'm envious. No video game references.... I'm not that geeky.

@heysherri, your sass could be used for good. Come over to my side of the force.

BTW, BNF is a she. Thus @csihilling's Brienne of Tarth reference (Game of Thrones).

[CalS 5,280]

@Frank,

 

No fun when you splain it.  Google search is everyone's friend! 

[chirmer 567]

It's a bug, but in your estimation pointing out that bug is not productive feedback?  Your argument becomes blatantly ridiculous at this point.

If that's what I'd have said, you'd have a point. But it's not. It's in the first sentence of my post - plain whining is not feedback. It's not. Everyone in the forums defending the whiners are failing to see the distinct difference between complaining and constructive criticism. I'm sure people feel better after venting their frustrations in an unhelpful manner, but the only person who benefits from it is them. Everyone else suffers. That whining, however, turns into constructive criticism when details are added that help someone.

 

"I hate the popups. They're annoying."

 

Okay? What's annoying? That you're getting them at all? There's nothing to go on here.

 

"I hate the popups. I get 3 to 4 a day. They're annoying."

 

Ahhh, much better. Info we can go on. Constructive feedback. 

 

That's all it takes, and is all we're asking for. The first example is just a waste of everyone's time, and unfortunately, is the gist of most people in the forums complaining about stuff. While the second example isn't the politest, it's much more helpful. I doubt anyone would get a snarky response from a forum regular if they posted along the lines of the second one.