Bug? Tags not sorting as expected.

[JimmyBoy 4]

I have an issue (minor) where tags listed do not sort as expected as defined by the ASCII character set. However they DO list correctly (or at least as I would expect) on the web version.

 

Mac:

 

Web:

 

The web version sorts as I would expect from the ASCII codes

 

 

Does anyone know if this is a bug, or specific to my Mac OS (i.e., can you specify in mac somewhere what ASCII table is used etc?)

 

I assume it is a bug as the results are different between mac / web, but not 100% sure if it is something specific to MY mac?

 

Thanks for any help!

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

Meanwhile back in the big old imperfect real world,  sorting on different platforms does work in different ways*.  If you'd like to get your ducks in the same row each time you look at them,  check out the link suggestions.  Or you can wait until Evernote implements this particular fix.  Good luck with that.

 

*In Evernote...

 

@Gaz:  Why do you continue try to confuse the issue?  You were clearly wrong.

 

You  don't use a Mac.  You don't use EN Mac.  I really don't know why you are trying to advise users in the EN MAC forum about products you never use.  I would NEVER trust a person trying to give me advice about a product they've never used.  

 

Since you use Windows and Android, why don't you just spend your time there.  I know there's lots of EN Win issues that people need help with.

 

I'm sure no one, particularly you, needs to tell the OP (JimmyBoy), or anyone else, what they need to do as a workaround to the EN Sort bug.

[gustavgi 311]

 

@JM you're persistently misconstruing what I say.  I started out by making the points that 1) the issue exists,  and 2) there are work-arounds.  Both of which facts are completely correct.  I have not attempted to assign fault to either Evernote or the OS nor have I at any stage suggested that I carried out tests. 

 

 

@Gaz:  I am NOT misconstruing your statements.  You are trying to cover up your errors.

 

You very first response clearly states that the sort issue was due to the OS:

• "Not a bug AFAIK"
• "they are treated differently in different operating systems"

Do you really think you are being helpful trying to advise people about computers and software you've never used?  

 

Not a bug AFAIK - If you use "special characters" to force a particular order - prefixing the name of an item with one or more of  these non-alpha chars - " ! " # % + < = > " they are treated differently in different operating systems

 

 

To be fair, I can say that I would have phrased it exactly like Gaz without refering to the OS in itself, but the "platform version" of Evernote created for that OS. And sure, if he had said that "they are treated differently by different operating systems", it would have been a separate matter..

 

Also, even though suggestions of workarounds in these threads can seem both provocative and counter-productive, when the real solution seems so simple to implement, we have learned that it's still needed. And if a user hasn't used a particular version of a operating system or a version of Evernote, a suggustion is better that none. And so far, we have no other suggestions in this thread.

 

I do like to note that I myself think it's very unfortunate that tags are treated in the way they are across operating systems.

[gazumped 12,036]

@JM - you're now telling me what I meant.  I know you'll want the last word as usual so I'll leave you to it.

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

@JM you're persistently misconstruing what I say.  I started out by making the points that 1) the issue exists,  and 2) there are work-arounds.  Both of which facts are completely correct.  I have not attempted to assign fault to either Evernote or the OS nor have I at any stage suggested that I carried out tests. 

 

 

@Gaz:  I am NOT misconstruing your statements.  You are trying to cover up your errors.

 

You very first response clearly states that the sort issue was due to the OS:

• "Not a bug AFAIK"
• "they are treated differently in different operating systems"

Do you really think you are being helpful trying to advise people about computers and software you've never used?  

 

Not a bug AFAIK - If you use "special characters" to force a particular order - prefixing the name of an item with one or more of  these non-alpha chars - " ! " # % + < = > " they are treated differently in different operating systems

[gazumped 12,036]

@JM you're persistently misconstruing what I say.  I started out by making the points that 1) the issue exists,  and 2) there are work-arounds.  Both of which facts are completely correct.  I have not attempted to assign fault to either Evernote or the OS nor have I at any stage suggested that I carried out tests. 

[gazumped 12,036]

I get the impression though as they are not very forthcoming in keeping the community informed with what will/won't be worked on, and what their future plans are… as a new user to Evernote it's a little discouraging.

 

In my opinion it's no different to any other commercial developer - if you look at the discussion boards for many major packages there are long-running campaigns to get some feature or other changed or added.  For the reasons I listed - and probably lots more,  driving this sort of company is like piloting an oil tanker;  you need lots of room -and time- for manoeuvring.

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

@Gaz:  Are you claiming to be a user of EN Mac?   That's what your statement implies.

 

The issue we were discussing here is not about opinions.  I actually ran some tests on a Mac that proved the sort issue was an Evernote issue.  What did you do?  Your opinion about Macs and Mac software is worthless because you've never used them.

 

 

@JM.  We're both just users of this product,  with our own -different- opinions.  You're of course entitled to state yours at any stage.  So am I.

[JimmyBoy 4]

I get the impression though as they are not very forthcoming in keeping the community informed with what will/won't be worked on, and what their future plans are… as a new user to Evernote it's a little discouraging.

[gazumped 12,036]

@JM.  We're both just users of this product,  with our own -different- opinions.  You're of course entitled to state yours at any stage.  So am I.

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

Do Evernote developers take notice of user request's / suggestions / bug reports etc… or do they just have their own "vision" with which users have to come along for the ride wether they like it or not?

 

 

Reportedly someone from Evernote, not necessarily a developer, reads most/all posts in these forums.   I make no such assumption.

 

The best way to report a bug is via the formal EN Support Ticket.

 

See Submit a BUG report via an EN Support Ticket. In the Support Form, select "Report a bug", and start the Ticket Title with "BUG:  " to make it clear.  Reporting a bug should be available to all users, including Free Account owners.  Other Ticket types available to Free users are "Data Loss", "Crash", & "Sync Issue".

[gazumped 12,036]

This thread should have attracted some attention - you can stress your interest by sending in a bug report on this issue if you'd like.  Big software companies though tend not to do things quickly - lots of reasons,  including the fact they already have a 'plan' for the features they're going to introduce,  a long list of bugs from all the users of their several products,  and new operating systems coming in from Apple and Google and Microsoft to test their existing and new products against in case someone moved an important goalpost.  They'll do something,  but you can't tell when.  It could be that they're aware and working on this issue now and the fix will come out next week.  Some requests have been laying around for months and years though - possibly because fixing the issues means a truly major rewrite of something basic. 

[JimmyBoy 4]

Or you can wait until Evernote implements this particular fix.  Good luck with that.

 

 

Do Evernote developers take notice of user request's / suggestions / bug reports etc… or do they just have their own "vision" with which users have to come along for the ride wether they like it or not?

 

The more I read about evernote, the less I wish I started using it as there are many many complaints about the developers not fixing bugs that have been present for a long time, and as I find more quirks like these I feel discouraged as I doubt they will ever get fixed, yet they release new versions with "improvements" that no one wants. E.g the beta web browser is absolutely horrendous for workflow and productivity IMHO.

[gazumped 12,036]

Meanwhile back in the big old imperfect real world,  sorting on different platforms does work in different ways*.  If you'd like to get your ducks in the same row each time you look at them,  check out the link suggestions.  Or you can wait until Evernote implements this particular fix.  Good luck with that.

 

*In Evernote...

[JimmyBoy 4]

 

My point is that this is an Evernote issue, not an OS issue.

Evernote needs to fix their sorting to follow ASCII standards on all platforms/OS.

 

 

Agreed.

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

 

The first post where Gaz provided a couple of links does explain it a little. Evernote has different sort orders on different platforms!?

 

http://www.thesecretweapon.org/forums/topic/sorting-tags-again#post-1816

 

ASCII:

!#$%&()*+./numbers:?@uppercases [\]^_lowercases{}~

Evernote Windows:

!#$%&()*./:?@[\]^_{}~+numbers lowercases uppercases

Evernote IOS:

_:!?.()[]{}@*/\%^+~$numbers lowercases uppercases

 

As to why this is I have no idea, and seems completely wrong to me. There should be consistency between apps & platforms, and beside this is ASCII Standard so regardless, the sorting order should be the same!

 

 

Correct, we know that Evernote is using different method of sorting on some platforms from the ASCII standard.

My point is that this is an Evernote issue, not an OS issue.

Evernote needs to fix their sorting to follow ASCII standards on all platforms/OS.

[JimmyBoy 4]

The first post where Gaz provided a couple of links does explain it a little. Evernote has different sort orders on different platforms!?

 

http://www.thesecretweapon.org/forums/topic/sorting-tags-again#post-1816

 

ASCII:
!#$%&()*+./numbers:?@uppercases [\]^_lowercases{}~

Evernote Windows:

!#$%&()*./:?@[\]^_{}~+numbers lowercases uppercases

Evernote IOS:
_:!?.()[]{}@*/\%^+~$numbers lowercases uppercases

 

As to why this is I have no idea, and seems completely wrong to me. There should be consistency between apps & platforms, and beside this is ASCII Standard so regardless, the sorting order should be the same!

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

@Gaz:   If you don't understand the significance of the sorting being an app issue vs a generic OS issue, I'm not sure I can explain it so that you will understand.

 

If you read the EDIT on my previous post, you will notice that Evernote is sorting differently on the Mac than all other apps on the Mac.  This is a big issue.

[gazumped 12,036]

So what you're saying is that these characters "are treated differently in different operating systems" by Evernote.  Glad we got that sorted out.  Missing those two words could have confused everyone.  Always good to have that explained.  Thanks.

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

Not a bug AFAIK - If you use "special characters" to force a particular order - prefixing the name of an item with one or more of  these non-alpha chars - " ! " # % + < = > " they are treated differently in different operating systems - so your ideal listing of  notes / notebooks / tags / saved searches may not look the same on different devices,  or on the web.

Check out these two links for more on this...

http://www.thesecretweapon.org/forums/topic/sorting-tags-again#post-1816

http://www.sensefulsolutions.com/2012/01/evernote-tag-sort-order-utility.html

 

Sorry, Gaz, but you couldn't be more wrong when you state "they are treated differently in different operating systems"

 

Those are all standard ASCII characters that have been around for decades.

There is nothing wrong with using them at the beginning of a text item (like Tag name) to achieve the desired sort order.

 

The problem here is not that the different OS treat the sort order differently, it is that Evernote treats it differently on different platforms.

 

The fact that two apps (EN Mac and Web Browser) on the same OS sort differently strongly points to an issue with the application, not with the OS.  If it was an OS difference, both apps would sort the same.

IMO, the Web Browser is far more likely to follow standards than is Evernote.

 

The two references you provided show that Evernote is sorting differently on different platforms.

However, I can not find any other references that even suggest that different platforms (operating systems) sort ASCII characters differently.

 

EDIT:  Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at   1:56 AM CDT

 

To confirm that the sorting issue is NOT OS related, but is due to the app, I just ran a test using the Tag Names shown by the OP (@JimmyBoy) in these Mac apps:

• TextEdit
• TextWrangler

Both of these apps sorted the Tag name exactly like the Mac Web Browser.

 

This proves the issue is with Evernote, not with the Mac OS.

[gazumped 12,036]

Not a bug AFAIK - If you use "special characters" to force a particular order - prefixing the name of an item with one or more of  these non-alpha chars - " ! " # % + < = > " they are treated differently in different operating systems - so your ideal listing of  notes / notebooks / tags / saved searches may not look the same on different devices,  or on the web.

Check out these two links for more on this...

http://www.thesecretweapon.org/forums/topic/sorting-tags-again#post-1816

http://www.sensefulsolutions.com/2012/01/evernote-tag-sort-order-utility.html