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Cynion

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  • Level 5*

Hi. Here is an explanation.

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/80875-why-is-evernote-connecting-to-google-analytics-when-i-start-up/

 

Here is my takeaway. It's in the terms of service, so we have three choices: (1) accept that it will connect to Google Analytics; (2) stop using Evernote; (3) or install something like Little Snitch to stop it (no adverse affect). 

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Thanks for the reply.

 

Good to see that Little Snitch won't impact the functionality as I've already blocked EN Helper.

 

Bit annoyed with the stance of the company as I'm a paying customer and as such should not be 'the product' but that's for another conversation.

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  • Level 5*

It seems fine to talk about its appropriateness here :) Most people are probably blissfully unaware of it. Google Analytics is used by lots of folks (from corporations to educational institutions) for all kinds of things whether you pay or not. Evernote is just playing the game. At least they are open about it.

There is no way to demand your privacy and security back from anyone in the current legal environment, I'm afraid, and you have to fight yourself to maintain it. Little Snitch is extremely helpful in this regard, and I'm glad to hear that you have it. I imagine Evernote also uses plenty of non-personally identifiable data internally to understand how we are using the service as well, though. It has given itself this power in the terms of service. Again, they are just playing the game here. In the end, the only way to completely protect yourself is not to let anyone take anything away from you, and that generally means giving up on cloud services.

Personally, I assume for the cloud (any email or calendar event in my case) my content is being viewed by someone else (it may be now and it almost certainly will be someday in the future) and try to write accordingly. Anything can be taken out of context and/or willfully misunderstood, though, so this attitude of mine is probably not very effective, but I am still trying. Beyond email and my calendar app, I keep the cloud at arm's length.

At some point, I'll probably drop the calendar app, but email is a tough one, because mail is insecure in the first place, and everyone I communicate with uses Google or Microsoft. Even when it is not in their email addresses, people are using one of these two through their company or educational institution, which has outsourced their email service (I think many universities around the world, for example, commonly do this). It's difficult to entirely escape the cloud, and these are just some of the obvious things you have some control over -- a lot of other data collection is simply impossible to stop as an individual consumer/citizen/"unit."

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  • Level 5*

By the way, Bruce Schneier had a blog post recently that is relevant here.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/02/everyone_wants_.html

This one, perhaps more so.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/11/surveillance_as_1.html

This advice is more broadly applicable to any Internet activity.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/how_to_remain_s.html

Even if people disagree with Schneier's analyses, he provides a lot of information that helps you think through what is happening. He even admits that for some people, the benefits of using cloud services (backups, for example) outweigh the risks of your data being hacked or stolen. But, the key here, I think, is that users are informed and give some thought to what is best for them, Many people will wisely opt to use the cloud (Evernote and other services) and accept that Goolge (and others) will wrangle their data one way or another (not the contents of your notes, which Evernote does not share, but probably usage patterns for apps and the Internet).

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  • Level 5

Bit annoyed with the stance of the company as I'm a paying customer and as such should not be 'the product' but that's for another conversation.

 

As was pointed out in the thread GM linked to above, no information is given or sold to any third parties.

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Bit annoyed with the stance of the company as I'm a paying customer and as such should not be 'the product' but that's for another conversation.

 

As was pointed out in the thread GM linked to above, no information is given or sold to any third parties.

 

 

I understand that when I use web services I can't really get around the whole 'tracking issue' but when (for instance) I were to create a note and save it to a local(!) notebook, I wouldn't expect data to flow back to the company. You shouldn't have access to what I do on my machine locally!

 

When a customer pays for a service the level of expectation changes.

 

Also, the 'no third parties' argument is pretty hollow: a pivot, change of ownership, etc. and the data becomes rather valuable all of a sudden - happened more often than I care to remember.

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Thanks GM for the comprehensive reply - quite a weekend-read...

 

I agree with you that the presumption of control is rather thin and that it is us that have to make sure that our data is (relatively) safe.

 

As I said in my previous reply in this thread, I accept that when I use web services I have to accept a certain level of intrusion into what I do. But where I draw the line is when I use a piece of software locally (e.g. create a local note and save to a local notebook) I don't expect data to be sent back over the net. (Yes, I have a mixture of synced and local notebooks)

 

Also, I don't remember a pop-up when I launched EN for the first time telling me that this would happen - poor form.

 

As an example re. the fact that 'no third parties' is meaningless - I received this email only this afternoon:

 

 

 

Dear Customer 

Important information about your personal data 

With effect from today, the lastminute.com business has been acquired by Bravofly Rumbo Group. As a result, your personal data has been transferred to LMnext UK Ltd
...

I never agreed to this transfer but my data has been moved all the same.

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  • Level 5*

A lot of companies use GA to manage software development, and they don't tell you, because the terms of service give them this power. I don't think it is bad form. It's just how this works, and a close reading of their policy makes this (and many other things) clear. Unfortunately, as mentioned above, the current legal environment with all of its ever-changing terms of service makes it quite a challenge for users to navigate while protecting their privacy. Evernote actually seems to be one of the more transparent players out there.

On the other hand, there are some companies (such as DEVONthink) that explicitly say they do not use GA and do not collect usage data. They do exist! Personally, I'd like to see Evernote adopt a similar policy, but I haven't seen any indication that they will.

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