Uploading pdf data base paying premium then going back to free evernote

[shirazgirl 2]

Hi I was wondering I am thinking of scanning my entire business data contracts I have stored for several years into a online searchable Evernote. So. I can search for a contract when needed on and offline when I am out and about. ( big disadvantage I can see with clouds is if you are off line you cannot retrieve files)

My main question is if I pay to get a larger upload allowance, then once all uploaded into Evernote, do I need to continue paying each Month or yearly that amount, as once all up loaded I would not need the extra storage GB as I only have a few contracts a month to up load. Can I go back to the free version but still access the files I uploaded when I paid for the uploads?

I suppose this will make the decision to use this or not for me.

Thanks for any help on this matter. From beautiful New Zealand

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Hi. No worries!

Upload it all, Evernote will OCR them if needed, and they'll be in your account, accessible from anywhere, even if you go back down to Free. That's because Evernote works like this: the upload amount resets every month, the amount stored increases with every file added, or decreases with every file deleted. Dropbox works like this: No upload limit, but you always have X amount of space that you need to manage by adding or deleting files, and if you stop paying, you lose that storage space. It's the upload amount part that is the key.

To put it another way, if you take advantage of the 4gb per month upload amount for Premium, you'll have 48gb of data in your account at the end of the year. Go back to Free and nver pay Evernote anything again if you want, but that 48gb of stuff will be there for the rest of your life. You aren't paying for the space, as you do with Dropbox, but for the upload capacity.

[CalS 5,280]

As GM says, turn on premium for a month and then turn it off after you have uploaded everything, assuming that your total upload is less than 4GB.  One thing to remember, if you are a free user you can access a note when you are out and about but it may download each time.  Not sure how much cache is used for free accounts on phones and tablets.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Can I go back to the free version but still access the files I uploaded when I paid for the uploads?

This will work for getting your large backlog of PDFs uploaded to Evernote.  You will be able to access the PDFs without any problem.

 

However, once you revert to a Free Account, I think you will lose the ability to include the PDFs in EN Searches.

At least that is how I read the Comparison of EN Account Types.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

 

Can I go back to the free version but still access the files I uploaded when I paid for the uploads?

This will work for getting your large backlog of PDFs uploaded to Evernote.  You will be able to access the PDFs without any problem.

 

However, once you revert to a Free Account, I think you will lose the ability to include the PDFs in EN Searches.

At least that is how I read the Comparison of EN Account Types.

 

 

I'm not 100% clear on that, but my understanding is that PDFs are included in searches (they are, after all, OCR'd) and you will be able to search in them (they are, after all, OCR'd), but only the ones that you uploaded while a Premium member. Ones you upload after you revert to Free will not be OCR'd.

 

However, if you do the OCR yourself and upload them as a Free member, they should (as far as I know) be searchable as well. In other words, what the Knowledge Base is saying applies only to PDFs that you want Evernote to OCR. They are warning free users that they can put un-OCR'd PDFs into the service, but Evernote won't do anything with them unless they upgrade to Premium.

 

Anyhow, I could be wrong about all of this. You might want to contact support and confirm once you become a Premium member and get support access.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

 

 

Can I go back to the free version but still access the files I uploaded when I paid for the uploads?

This will work for getting your large backlog of PDFs uploaded to Evernote.  You will be able to access the PDFs without any problem.

 

However, once you revert to a Free Account, I think you will lose the ability to include the PDFs in EN Searches.

At least that is how I read the Comparison of EN Account Types.

 

 

I'm not 100% clear on that, but my understanding is that PDFs are included in searches (they are, after all, OCR'd) and you will be able to search in them (they are, after all, OCR'd), but only the ones that you uploaded while a Premium member. Ones you upload after you revert to Free will not be OCR'd.

 

However, if you do the OCR yourself and upload them as a Free member, they should (as far as I know) be searchable as well. In other words, what the Knowledge Base is saying applies only to PDFs that you want Evernote to OCR. They are warning free users that they can put un-OCR'd PDFs into the service, but Evernote won't do anything with them unless they upgrade to Premium.

 

Anyhow, I could be wrong about all of this. You might want to contact support and confirm once you become a Premium member and get support access.

 

 

GM, you may be right, but that is NOT what the EN KB article states.

 

 

From the EN KB Article:

 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

 

 

 

Can I go back to the free version but still access the files I uploaded when I paid for the uploads?

This will work for getting your large backlog of PDFs uploaded to Evernote.  You will be able to access the PDFs without any problem.

 

However, once you revert to a Free Account, I think you will lose the ability to include the PDFs in EN Searches.

At least that is how I read the Comparison of EN Account Types.

 

 

I'm not 100% clear on that, but my understanding is that PDFs are included in searches (they are, after all, OCR'd) and you will be able to search in them (they are, after all, OCR'd), but only the ones that you uploaded while a Premium member. Ones you upload after you revert to Free will not be OCR'd.

 

However, if you do the OCR yourself and upload them as a Free member, they should (as far as I know) be searchable as well. In other words, what the Knowledge Base is saying applies only to PDFs that you want Evernote to OCR. They are warning free users that they can put un-OCR'd PDFs into the service, but Evernote won't do anything with them unless they upgrade to Premium.

 

Anyhow, I could be wrong about all of this. You might want to contact support and confirm once you become a Premium member and get support access.

 

 

GM, you may be right, but that is NOT what the EN KB article states.

 

 

From the EN KB Article:

 

 

 

Tables necessarily omit information in order to present data from a new perspective (different than prose), often in an easily digestible format. It's their raison d'être. Ideally, we'd have a wonderfully written manual (or manuals) to supplement this table, but we don't, so you have to read between the lines and interpret it yourself. Based on my experience with how Evernote has functioned over the years, my experience testing some of this out in a Free account before I posted today, and statements to this effect by Evernote staff (see the 2009 Evernote Podcast #9, from the 4:45 to 5:30 mark), I feel pretty confident that I am interpreting this table correctly when it comes to PDFs.

 

I'm not sure I would suggest any changes to the table. It looks fine. It's nice for an overview. Ultimately, though, users are still confused, unless they listen to every podcast, read every post in the forums, and use the app for years, so I would still recommend a manual...

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Tables necessarily omit information in order to present data from a new perspective (different than prose), often in an easily digestible format. It's their raison d'être.

 

I'm not sure I would suggest any changes to the table. It looks fine. It's nice for an overview. Ultimately, though, users are still confused, unless they listen to every podcast, read every post in the forums, and use the app for years, so I would still recommend a manual...

 

 

GM, I don't know what world you come from, but there is no universal truth about Tables.  Tables do NOT necessarily omit or contain anything.  It is totally up to the author.  I have bought a lot of electronic equipment over the years, and generally the spec tables provide the most accurate, detailed, comprehensive info about the product.  Indeed, it is usually the prose of the overview that tends to imply or suggest more capability than there really is.  I have found the same with software that provide comparisons of their various editions (like free/personal, pro, business, enterprise, etc).

 

You make a lot of assumptions based on a small sample of your recent experience.  While companies sometimes allow users to have more capability than stated by their formal documents, it can be very short-lived, and is certainly nothing to be counted on.

 

Perhaps there is a technical loop-hole today to allow some Free Accounts under some circumstances to provide search of PDFs.  But that could very easily be plugged/closed tomorrow.

 

IMO, anyone planning on creating a new Evernote account, or greatly expanding one to include a lot of PDFs which rely on searching of those PDFs, would be wise to assume that they will need a Premium account to do so. 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

GM, I don't know what world you come from

Earth. It is a planet. There is more to say about it, but because of space constraints, similar to those one would find in a table, I am omitting that data here.

 

I have bought a lot of electronic equipment over the years, and generally the spec tables provide the most accurate, detailed, comprehensive info about the product.

We are not talking about specs. In Apple's spec table for the iPad they don't tell us the RAM, not because their table is broken or wrong, but because they omitted what they felt was unimportant for the user to see in this particular arrangement of rows and columns. They show you both of the "chips" but neglect to mention there is also an NFC chip inside.

https://www.apple.com/ipad-air-2/specs/

I'm not prescribing how tables ought to be. I'm describing how I see them actually being used. If you have a concrete suggestion for Evernote to improve their table, I am sure they would be happy to hear it. In this particular case, I don't see any need to change it. However, as I said, a more elaborate manual (like the one Apple supplies for its iPads, because the spec table is insufficient) would be nice.

 

You make a lot of assumptions based on a small sample of your recent experience.... Perhaps there is a technical loop-hole today to allow some Free Accounts under some circumstances to provide search of PDFs.  But that could very easily be plugged/closed tomorrow.

As I stated in my earlier post, this is behavior that was described by the CEO in 2009, it has worked this way since 2009, and it still works this way today. I am not sure what other evidence you need beyond the facts.

 

IMO, anyone planning on creating a new Evernote account, or greatly expanding one to include a lot of PDFs which rely on searching of those PDFs, would be wise to assume that they will need a Premium account to do so. 

OK. But, your opinion is not based on reality, so as a counterpoint, I would suggest users give it a try and see that it does, indeed, work as I described.

True, it could disappear tomorrow. But, I can't predict the future. If five years of past precedent is any indication of future developments, then the PDFs will continue to be searchable. If I am wrong (it has happened before), then please let us know.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

 

 

You make a lot of assumptions based on a small sample of your recent experience.... Perhaps there is a technical loop-hole today to allow some Free Accounts under some circumstances to provide search of PDFs.  But that could very easily be plugged/closed tomorrow.

As I stated in my earlier post, this is behavior that was described by the CEO in 2009, it has worked this way since 2009, and it still works this way today. I am not sure what other evidence you need beyond the facts.

 

IMO, anyone planning on creating a new Evernote account, or greatly expanding one to include a lot of PDFs which rely on searching of those PDFs, would be wise to assume that they will need a Premium account to do so. 

OK. But, your opinion is not based on reality, so as a counterpoint, I would suggest users give it a try and see that it does, indeed, work as I described.

True, it could disappear tomorrow. But, I can't predict the future. If five years of past precedent is any indication of future developments, then the PDFs will continue to be searchable. If I am wrong (it has happened before), then please let us know.

 

 

My opinion is firmly rooted in reality based on the facts presented by Evernote.

 

The only facts we have when it comes to expected features of a software product is what the developer states the features to be.

The only thing I have seen in writing from Evernote is that PDF search is a "Premium" feature.

• As shown in the account type comparison.
• In a number of EN blogs, such as this one:

 

This new feature comes in addition to the existing priority image recognition, and Premium PDF Search, which makes any scanned documents attached to notes searchable, for Premium users.

 

Since the Evernote documentation is known to be not always up-to-date, or accurate, it is certainly possible that PDF search is a feature of the Free Account as well.  I just can't find any official Evernote documents that state that.  Regardless of whether or not it works today, the only logical conclusion based on published facts is that PDF is a Premium feature.

 

Most, if not all, software has features discovered by the users, but not announced nor officially supported by the developer.  The response from a lot of developers (if they respond at all) is that they cannot guarantee the availability of any feature in the next, or future releases, that is not officially documented and supported.

 

Ideally this discussion will encourage Evernote to make a public statement, and update their document to make it clear, one way or the other.

[shirazgirl 2]

Thank you too everyone that has replied the information has been extremely helpful.

My Warmest Regards to everyone and tank you again from Julie in New. Zealand

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Regardless of whether or not it works today, the only logical conclusion based on published facts is that PDF is a Premium feature.... Most, if not all, software has features discovered by the users, but not announced nor officially supported by the developer.  The response from a lot of developers (if they respond at all) is that they cannot guarantee the availability of any feature in the next, or future releases, that is not officially documented and supported. Ideally this discussion will encourage Evernote to make a public statement, and update their document to make it clear, one way or the other.

The CEO explained it publicly and quite clearly in 2009, so I see no need for them to make another public statement five years later to clarify what has already become abundantly clear five years later -- the feature works. I am afraid I can only speak confidently about the past and the present, because I don't have any talent in prognosticating about the future. The best I can do is speculate, and I see nothing to suggest that this feature will be dropped.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

GM, good luck to you if you trust everything the Evernote CEO says.

 

EDIT:  You quote the CEO in 2009 ?????  that is ancient history in IT, not to mention Evernote.  He has reversed himself so many times since then.

[Mike G. 2]

The company talked about this about a year ago in the latest episode of the Evernote Podcast – around the 49:00 mark. Once the PDFs are OCRed, they remain searchable even if you downgrade to basic.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

GM, good luck to you if you trust everything the Evernote CEO says.

EDIT: You quote the CEO in 2009 ????? that is ancient history in IT, not to mention Evernote. He has reversed himself so many times since then.

It has been this way since 2009, and I have never heard him reverse himself on this point. Please do tell us when he did.

Actually, I am also interested in hearing more about when he has reversed himself on anything. He has talked about the company's direction, and that has changed somewhat over time, but I don't remember any reversals. He has talked about new features that have not been developed according to his schedule, but that isn't a reversal either.

Whatever you might think of him (clearly, he and I have very different views on our surveillance society, the need for improvements with encryption, and information density in the user interface), he seems genuinely enthusiastic about the service and consistent about his vision for it. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, right? So, I don't expect he'll be exactly the same guy he was six years ago when Evernote launched, but I honestly can't recall these reversals.

Anyhow, regarding PDFs, this is how they have worked in the past, and this is how they work now. Features have changed without notice in the past (you know I have been quite critical about this), but there is no reason to assume that everything will change. Speaking more technically, if you know how the OCR works (read the tech blog), you'll see how unlikely this feature is to change, because it would require Evernote to go through your notes and destroy data.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Anyhow, regarding PDFs, this is how they have worked in the past, and this is how they work now. Features have changed without notice in the past (you know I have been quite critical about this), but there is no reason to assume that everything will change. 

 

 

GM, I do believe that we have repeated our arguments about this enough.

Until I see a written feature statement on the Evernote web site I will continue to not trust the future availability of searching PDFs in Free accounts.  I agree it works now -- just not sure about the future.  It is easy enough for Evernote to update the KB article on comparing Evernote accounts to clarify the status of this feature.

 

So, I guess, for now we will have to agree to disagree.  

 

On a sightly separate issue, I also disagree with your statement:

 

 

 

Speaking more technically, if you know how the OCR works (read the tech blog), you'll see how unlikely this feature is to change, because it would require Evernote to go through your notes and destroy data.

 

It does NOT require the destruction of any data.  All Evernote needs to do is set a flag to not include PDFs in searches in Free accounts.  Similar to what they are doing now for MS Office and iWork documents.  Of course, neither of us really know what is required since we don't have access to the Evernote source code. 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

GM, I do believe that we have repeated our arguments about this enough.

I'd still like to see your evidence of Phil (the Evernote CEO) reversing himself, which is apparently your sole basis for continuing to argue that we cannot expect the PDF capabilities we have to exist in the future.

 

Of course, neither of us really know what is required since we don't have access to the Evernote source code. 

True, neither of us can predict what Evernote "might" do "if" it completely changed how things have worked for the last five years, which is kind of my point, though you do have a tech blog, and you can export your notes to view the .enml code for yourself to verify my claim about how the OCR works and where the data goes.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

 

GM, I do believe that we have repeated our arguments about this enough.

I'd still like to see your evidence of Phil (the Evernote CEO) reversing himself, which is apparently your sole basis for continuing to argue that we cannot expect the PDF capabilities we have to exist in the future.

 

Of course, neither of us really know what is required since we don't have access to the Evernote source code. 

True, neither of us can predict what Evernote "might" do "if" it completely changed how things have worked for the last five years, which is kind of my point, though you do have a tech blog, and you can export your notes to view the .enml code for yourself to verify my claim about how the OCR works and where the data goes.

 

 

GM, the credibility of the Evernote CEO is well beyond the scope of this thread, so I don't thing we should go there.  IAC, it is NOT my sole basis for this feature.   Let's move on, and not continue to pollute this thread with an off-topic discussion.  Feel free to open a new thread in the Lounge to further discuss this.

[Frank.dg 1,385]

The company talked about this about a year ago in the latest episode of the Evernote Podcast – around the 49:00 mark. Once the PDFs are OCRed, they remain searchable even if you downgrade to basic.

 

OK... it seems that once a PDF is OCR'd, it is searchable, even when someone goes back to a free account... BUT... I'd like to pose a potential spanner in the works... what if the note is modified in any way - text added, tagged, etc? I'm going to explain this very simply, because I don't understand the inner workings of how things get indexed. So please bear with me. I'm just connecting a few dots here:

 

I read somewhere that when a note is modified, the whole thing gets re-synced - and the size of the entire note is added again to the monthly quota, whether free or premium. I noticed that when I change anything at all in a note with an image - whether I add just a space or a tag, I see that the "attachment status" under the information icon goes from "10 images have been indexed" to "10 images have not been indexed". I imagine everything has to get re-indexed. Even if you added a period or a comma in a note (not necessarily the image). That's the way it seems to work, at face value (I've been tinkering with notes that have image attachments).

If the indexing of PDFs worked in a similar fashion to the indexing of images, it seems that if one were to make any sort of change to the notes containing PDFs, they too would be re-indexed... and if that affects whether the note has to pass through the OCR process again, I have no idea. Shirazgirl then might run the risk of losing the ability to search PDFs that were previously indexed, but were subsequently re-indexed due to any sort of change in the note. If that even makes any sense at all  

 

You see, I have no idea what the relationship between being indexed and OCR'd is... whether they are synonymous or not. Just going on observation with no technical background whatsoever. I am a premium user... and I haven't quite figured out whether I can rely on the sync status of PDFs yet... because presently, it seems that none of my PDFs have been indexed (accoring to their status)... although I know they were at one point, I can still search for text within them. If I get to the bottom of this, I will have learned something today   

 

So one of you smarter guys here would know if that posed any potential risk to having a previously OCR'd note being "bumped out" so to speak and losing it's "searchable" status once modified in any way.

 

Here it is:

 

What counts as a "note upload"

Every time a note is edited, the entire note is re-uploaded and counts towards your quota. The following actions will re-sync a note, which will count toward your quota:

• Editing text inside a note
• Editing a file that's attached inside a note
• Rotating or deleting a picture inside a note

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

GM, I do believe that we have repeated our arguments about this enough.

I'd still like to see your evidence of Phil (the Evernote CEO) reversing himself, which is apparently your sole basis for continuing to argue that we cannot expect the PDF capabilities we have to exist in the future.

 

Of course, neither of us really know what is required since we don't have access to the Evernote source code. 

True, neither of us can predict what Evernote "might" do "if" it completely changed how things have worked for the last five years, which is kind of my point, though you do have a tech blog, and you can export your notes to view the .enml code for yourself to verify my claim about how the OCR works and where the data goes.

 

GM, the credibility of the Evernote CEO is well beyond the scope of this thread, so I don't thing we should go there.  IAC, it is NOT my sole basis for this feature.   Let's move on, and not continue to pollute this thread with an off-topic discussion.  Feel free to open a new thread in the Lounge to further discuss this.

I don't think we are "polluting" it by clarifying our positions -- as you know, I've given a lot of thought to PDFs in Evernote and I think our discussion could help new users.

(1) I think you raise a good point when you say that we need to think about the current state and future direction of Evernote when we design our workflows. As you know, mine tends to be a minimalist workflow that tries to avoid disruptions posed by unexpected changes to the product. In my case, I OCR PDFs myself (for various reasons) and I sometimes textify them so that they are guaranteed to work properly.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=551

(2) Now, if you had said that Evernote promises PDF support for its users, but doesn't provide it as it should on the iPad, because PDFs are not included in search results when you are offline (true, last I checked), then I'd say you have a point, because it is based on facts. Should that go in a table? I think so, but not in that one, which seems designed as a simple overview. I've long recommended a manual, and I think a very detailed table comparing features across all platforms would be a great thing for Evernote -- this suggestion has been floating around for years now, though.

(3) But, if you are saying that we should not use / rely on feature X or Y because the CEO is reversing himself then I think it doesn't make sense. I'd be happy to talk about the CEO in another thread, but I've only met him briefly, and wouldn't talk about personal stuff in public anyhow. So, we have public stuff to talk about -- please do start a thread if you have something to say about his "reversals."

[jefito 5,589]

JM: Honestly, if you thought it was so off-topic to talk about Phil here, then you would have just not talked about Phil, rather than casting aspersions and failing to back them up. Yes, please do take your own advice (if it was sincere), and take it to the lounge.

 

shirazgirl, if you're still listening, empirical evidence (rather than supposition) by more than one other user has shown that free users can still use OCR results that were obtained while they were premium. If Evernote were to cut that off, a lot of people would be inconvenienced, for sure, and there'd be a big outcry. I don't think that that would happen, but of course there are no guarantees; remember the SpringPad refugees, for example. All software is written in water, you see. 

 

Frank: that's a fair point, about when a note is modified, what happens to free users? At a guess, if the note is modified, but the PDF isn't, I'd say that nothing much different happens; search continues to work as it did, and the OCR information for the PDF won't have changed, so no big deal. If the PDF itself changes, though, then all bets are off, since free users don't get the OCR services; any OCR info would be invalid. The bit about the image OCRing is a little misleading, I think: image OCR is stored separately in a note's ENML, and final search index info is built up from that plus the note text, on the client side: there is no index for note text that is carried around with the note, as far as I know (it sure doesn't come out in the ENML on export). I haven't delved into the OCR indexing side of things, so I don't know if it's handled the same way, though. Maybe it's time to do a bit of delving on that.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Geez, GM, all I am suggesting is that most of your posts at this point are beyond the scope of the thread posted by the OP.

You seem compelled to continue to respond, but I don't think it helps the OP.

 

Really,  if you feel compelled to debate this issue, let's move this discussion elsewhere.  

Carry on here if  you must, but I'll not respond further in this thread.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Just to remind us all as to the original question/issues:

 

Hi I was wondering I am thinking of scanning my entire business data contracts I have stored for several years into a online searchable Evernote. So. I can search for a contract when needed on and offline when I am out and about. ( big disadvantage I can see with clouds is if you are off line you cannot retrieve files)
My main question is if I pay to get a larger upload allowance, then once all uploaded into Evernote, do I need to continue paying each Month or yearly that amount, as once all up loaded I would not need the extra storage GB as I only have a few contracts a month to up load. Can I go back to the free version but still access the files I uploaded when I paid for the uploads?
I suppose this will make the decision to use this or not for me.
Thanks for any help on this matter. From beautiful New Zealand

 

 

The direct answer is YES, you will still be able to access the files uploaded when you had a Premium Account.

[Frank.dg 1,385]

Frank: that's a fair point, about when a note is modified, what happens to free users? At a guess, if the note is modified, but the PDF isn't, I'd say that nothing much different happens; search continues to work as it did, and the OCR information for the PDF won't have changed, so no big deal. If the PDF itself changes, though, then all bets are off, since free users don't get the OCR services; any OCR info would be invalid. The bit about the image OCRing is a little misleading, I think: image OCR is stored separately in a note's ENML, and final search index info is built up from that plus the note text, on the client side: there is no index for note text that is carried around with the note, as far as I know (it sure doesn't come out in the ENML on export). I haven't delved into the OCR indexing side of things, so I don't know if it's handled the same way, though. Maybe it's time to do a bit of delving on that.

 

Somehow that seems to make sense, although I don't understand it fully. Time to read up on what indexing is all about ;-)

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I'm not sure I understand jefito.

If you OCR a PDF (or put a PDF with OCR data) into Evernote then Evernote will read and index the content. At least, that is how it seems to be working for me with my Free account. If you put a PDF without OCR data into Evernote, it will not OCR the content.

If you change a file, even (in the case of photos) just rotating an image, the entire file gets re-uploaded, as far as I can tell. So, if you have a 25MB PDF and you add a single annotation, I think the whole thing probably gets uploaded. If you change a note's text, does the entire note get re-uploaded? I don't know, but I don't think so.

The exception "might" be Evernote's annotation system. It is possible that this obviates the need for a complete re-upload. I have not tested it. Again, this is where one of those quaint manuals would come in handy Evernote

[Frank.dg 1,385]

The exception "might" be Evernote's annotation system. It is possible that this obviates the need for a complete re-upload. I have not tested it. Again, this is where one of those quaint manuals would come in handy Evernote

 

Or even handier would be a premium account... then one could just be blissfully ignorant of what you're not missing out on 

[Frank.dg 1,385]

Here's an interesting blog post on Evernote's tech blog... where Brett Kelly outlines the differences in the way PDFs and images are processed. That's an "insider's" explanation.

 

http://blog.evernote.com/tech/2013/07/18/how-evernotes-image-recognition-works/

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Here's an interesting blog post on Evernote's tech blog... where Brett Kelly outlines the differences in the way PDFs and images are processed. That's an "insider's" explanation.

 

http://blog.evernote.com/tech/2013/07/18/how-evernotes-image-recognition-works/

Yep. That's the one I was talking about. It's kind of difficult for me to see Evernote destroying the data they created in the note in order to essentially punish users for leaving Premium for Free, so I wouldn't expect the current performance to change anytime soon. It's also good to know the limits (I talk about these on my website as well) in order to get the most out of the feature.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Here's an interesting blog post on Evernote's tech blog... where Brett Kelly outlines the differences in the way PDFs and images are processed. That's an "insider's" explanation.

 

http://blog.evernote.com/tech/2013/07/18/how-evernotes-image-recognition-works/

 

Thanks Frank.

 

Here's an interesting quote from the Blog you referenced:

 

 

 

In practical terms, this eliminates many PDFs generated by other applications from text-based formats, such as word processors and other authoring applications. PDFs that are generated by hardware scanners generally meet the above requirements. If the scanner software performs its own OCR on the PDF, it won’t be processed by Evernote’s OCR service.

 

So, what is not clear, is that IF I upload a PDF from text-based formats in a Free Account, will it be Searchable by Evernote?

[Frank.dg 1,385]

Just a detail to consider... If I were a free user, I wouldn't feel any less "punished" by my offline access to notes being revoked as I would with a loss of the ability to search PDFs. Would there really be such an outcry if when downgrading to a basic account, previously searchable PDFs are now not? I don't get the "destroying" data part... as if private property were being vandalized. It seems to be a matter of whether we have a feature or not.

 

I most likely earn a lot less than many people who do not have a premium account... and honestly, if it's that important to one, I'm sure they would fork out less than it costs for a Netflix account to use a service, the scope of which cannot be currently matched elsewhere. I personally feel that Evernote should reserve the right to pull that feature... or even "destroy" data... if it gets someone to pay for a service they are consistently benefiting from on a daily basis. I'm sure that in turn, as harsh as it might seem to some, there would be a greater financial return for Evernote which may just help to fund the betterment of the service as a whole. As a premium user, I pay a measly $5 for a premium service that keeps getting new features heaped on without requiring me to pay a cent more.

[jefito 5,589]

I'm not sure I understand jefito.

If you OCR a PDF (or put a PDF with OCR data) into Evernote then Evernote will read and index the content. At least, that is how it seems to be working for me with my Free account. If you put a PDF without OCR data into Evernote, it will not OCR the content.

If you change a file, even (in the case of photos) just rotating an image, the entire file gets re-uploaded, as far as I can tell. So, if you have a 25MB PDF and you add a single annotation, I think the whole thing probably gets uploaded. If you change a note's text, does the entire note get re-uploaded? I don't know, but I don't think so.

The exception "might" be Evernote's annotation system. It is possible that this obviates the need for a complete re-upload. I have not tested it. Again, this is where one of those quaint manuals would come in handy Evernote

What I was doing was drawing a distinction between any indexing that Evernote does client-side to make search work faster (this would be indexing information that is not maintained in a note's contents) vs. the indexing that's a result of an image OCR operation, which is contained in the note (the "reco text" stuff, or whatever it's called). I don't know how the PDF OCR stuff is handled (rainy day project, and thanks for the link, Frank), but I'm speculating that it's handled more like the image OCR stuff in function. I didn't give any consideration to syncing or other effect on upload; it was just purely in the vein of "I need to get smarter on how this works before I can reason about it."  As far as I can tell, Evernote does atomic syncing, i.e., note by note, and doesn't do partial note syncing, but that's a guess.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Just a detail to consider... If I were a free user, I wouldn't feel any less "punished" by my offline access to notes being revoked as I would with a loss of the ability to search PDFs.

I would, because I presumably would have paid for the Premium service to OCR my notes, and even though the CEO promised that the content would remain after I became Free, it was not.

 

Would there really be such an outcry if when downgrading to a basic account, previously searchable PDFs are now not? I don't get the "destroying" data part... as if private property were being vandalized. It seems to be a matter of whether we have a feature or not.

It's purely baseless speculation on my part. If Evernote tried to prevent you from having your content in the search results (they don't), then I am imagining how they would go about doing it. The data (as I understand it) is stored within your note. I would like to confirm this, but today I can see that none of my PDFs have been indexed in my Premium account (indexed on the Web, but not on the Mac), so there is no way for me to check the .enml at the moment. This appears to be a bug, but I don't quite understand it.

Anyhow, assuming my meat brain is correctly remembering things, and the data is inside the note, presumably, they'd want to hide it from Finder as well. I suppose they would destroy the data you paid them to create for you (another option would be encryption, which would be ironic, because encryption isn't offered for the files themselves). And, yes, I do consider my notes to be my private property and any mangling of it isn't so much vandalism as it is destruction (in my eyes). If Evernote is supposed to be my virtual brain, then this is something akin to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind -- targeted brain damage. No, thank you.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that they don't do this. I am simply engaging in a thought experiment here.

 

I personally feel that Evernote should reserve the right to pull that feature... or even "destroy" data... if it gets someone to pay for a service they are consistently benefiting from on a daily basis. I'm sure that in turn, as harsh as it might seem to some, there would be a greater financial return for Evernote which may just help to fund the betterment of the service as a whole. As a premium user, I pay a measly $5 for a premium service that keeps getting new features heaped on without requiring me to pay a cent more.

I couldn't disagree more, and this mafiaesque tactic would almost certainly make me leave the service out of principle. I'm glad to help Evernote out by paying more, if they want to charge more, but I have no interest in having my data held hostage. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

 

So, what is not clear, is that IF I upload a PDF from text-based formats in a Free Account, will it be Searchable by Evernote?

It is exceedingly clear because this is how it works. Please try it. You will see (as I have said above) that the data is searchable.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

Here's a comprehensive comparison of Evernote Plans provided by a 3rd party:

Evernote Basic Vs Premium and Business

 

It is interesting to note that it shows that the Basic (Free) plan does not support searchable PDFs.

[Frank.dg 1,385]

GM, I appreciate the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind reference 

 

I think the best indication we found of previously OCR'd PDFs continuing to be searchable subsequent to a downgrade from premium to free - is a podcast that was mentioned previously in this thread. The fact that we have to speculate about this, kind of says to me that it's not a widely known or advertised thing. It's not that obvious. They don't promise to help you remember everything... and "Oh... and your previously OCR's PDF's too". In that sense, it seems that previously OCR'd PDFs being searchable in a downgraded account are more of a good-will thing than something Evernote should feel compelled to provide. Sort of like the aftereffects that they couldn't be bothered to go in and extract after the fact... pretty much like when I changed my internet provider, and the guys didn't come around to pick up the old router, because it would have required an extra overhead on their part.

 

Still, just thinking that any PDFs that I pop into Evernote after a downgrade (and the possibility old PDFs losing their ability to be searched because of being uploaded again after any changes to a note) leaves me with the uneasy feeling that I'm still only getting partial search results from my entire database... with the omission of even just a few PDFs. Stuck in the middle. 

 

I can't afford to leave a service out of principle. If it's useful to me then it's useful. Here in Brazil, if I were to leave all of my service providers out of principle, or refuse to eat at certain restaurants because of unsatisfactory experiences, I would more often than not find myself eating instant Ramen noodles at home while organizing my life in a bullet journal and unable to watch an otherwise reliable Netflix. Acting on (digital) principle when there's more to lose by doing so, would be a pity... 

 

You would seriously leave Evernote if they destroyed the information associated with your OCR'd PDFs after a downgrade, when most people take it that having PDFs be indexed and searchable is for all intents and purposes a premium feature?

 

Data being held hostage? How would rescinding PDF searchability be holding one's information hostage? Evernote giveth and Evernote taketh away...

[Frank.dg 1,385]

Here's a comprehensive comparison of Evernote Plans provided by a 3rd party:

Evernote Basic Vs Premium and Business

 

It is interesting to note that it shows that the Basic (Free) plan does not support searchable PDFs.

 

Thanks... I clipped it for future reference.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

GM, I appreciate the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind reference 

I think the best indication we found of previously OCR'd PDFs continuing to be searchable subsequent to a downgrade from premium to free - is a podcast that was mentioned previously in this thread.

There is that, and the fact that this is how it works At least, this is how it worked the last time I checked. Admittedly, it is difficult to test going back and forth from Free to Premium.

Anyhow, I'm happy to go without any apps if I don't like a company's business practices. And, I don't mind sacrificing convenience for principle, to some extent.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=2033

Fortunately for us, Evernote (in my experience) generally has good business practices. I have taken issue with some decisions, but that is to be expected, I think, especially when you have someone as opinionated as me. I regularly recommend the product to people, and I think the OP had a good idea. In fact, she is using the app exactly as intended.

By the way, you could upgrade to Premium every few months to get Evernote to OCR your stuff if you'd like. That is a relatively inexpensive way to take advantage of the feature.

 

Here's a comprehensive comparison of Evernote Plans provided by a 3rd party:

Evernote Basic Vs Premium and Business

 

It is interesting to note that it shows that the Basic (Free) plan does not support searchable PDFs.

 

Only if you find mistakes on the Internet to be interesting To clarify, Evernote will not OCR PDFs for Free users. PDFs with text in them, or PDFs that have been OCR'd are searchable. And, just to reiterate, Evernote has provided support for searchable PDFs in the past, continues to do so in the present, and has given no indication that they intend to change in the future.

[gazumped 11,656]

It makes sense that PDFs OCR'd while you're premium stay searchable if you lapse back to free - the OCR creates another 'file' separate to the uploaded data so that the text content used to be available to download separately from the original scan.  If that content has been created and added to the note it would be nonsensical to try to delete it if the account is downgraded - there could be tens of millions of items to delete from millions of accounts;  exhaustive in itself,  not to mention the problems of identifying the material to be removed,  the possibility of mistakes ..and what happens if the account is upgraded again?  It would be far more logical just to leave the extra information in place.

 

I'm not too impressed with the comparison website either - according to it,  Presentation Mode "allows collaborative editing of the notes on a real-time basis by team members"  Good luck with that...