my opinion regarding subfolders discussions

[MGBWU 0]

1. i am a premium user of EN for a while and i found EN so satisfying in general. but, as my notebooks are growing in number, i thought it would be great if i can create subfolders.

 

2. then, i did a bit of search and found a lot of discussions on "subfolder" and found that it was not i alone and there are lots of users who want the function.

 

3. i also noted that there are some "EVANGELISTS" who are so devoted on subfolder discussions -- they appear each discussion on this topic. if i am not mistaken, their main idea is roughly: EN has no intention of allowing subfolders, use tags instead! it's extremely efficient.

 

4. here is what i want to say:

 

1) as i read some posts of the "evangelists" regarding subfolders, i found the attitude of some EN evangelists disturbing -- sorry for my language. English is not my mother tongue and i couldn't find more eloquent expression.

 

YOU IMPOSE YOUR OPINION ON OTHERS. if you like tags, it's fine. use tags for the rest of your life. but don't say that subfolders are not helping. tags are means of searching files, while subfolders are means of categorising files. there are a lot of people who want subfolders. do you think they are stupid, so they need enlightenment? please respect the needs of others. PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO DOMINATE THE DISCUSSION.  

 

tags are great! but for some, like me, i simply need to create new folders each semester. PLEASE RESPECT THE NEEDS OF THE OTHERS. 

 

2) EN STAFFS! where are you guys? if EN really cares about the users, now is the time to consider the possibility of using subfolders in a serious way. come up and ask the users if they need subfolders. statistics will speak out aloud. please do not hide behind the "evangelists." if "tags-are-a lot-better-than-subfolders" non-sense is your official policy, i want to hear that from your mouth.

 

3) in my opinion, EN is currently number one program without serious competitors but, believe me, if any other serious competitors appear in time, you will need subfolders. 

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

1. i am a premium user of EN for a while and i found EN so satisfying in general. but, as my notebooks are growing in number, i thought it would be great if i can create subfolders.

2. then, i did a bit of search and found a lot of discussions on "subfolder" and found that it was not i alone and there are lots of users who want the function.

3. i also noted that there are some "EVANGELISTS" who are so devoted on subfolder discussions -- they appear each discussion on this topic. if i am not mistaken, their main idea is roughly: EN has no intention of allowing subfolders, use tags instead! it's extremely efficient.

4. here is what i want to say:

1) as i read some posts of the "evangelists" regarding subfolders, i found the attitude of some EN evangelists disturbing -- sorry for my language. English is not my mother tongue and i couldn't find more eloquent expression.

YOU IMPOSE YOUR OPINION ON OTHERS. if you like tags, it's fine. use tags for the rest of your life. but don't say that subfolders are not helping. tags are means of searching files, while subfolders are means of categorising files. there are a lot of people who want subfolders. do you think they are stupid, so they need enlightenment? please respect the needs of others. PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO DOMINATE THE DISCUSSION.

tags are great! but for some, like me, i simply need to create new folders each semester. PLEASE RESPECT THE NEEDS OF THE OTHERS.

2) EN STAFFS! where are you guys? if EN really cares about the users, now is the time to consider the possibility of using subfolders in a serious way. come up and ask the users if they need subfolders. statistics will speak out aloud. please do not hide behind the "evangelists." if "tags-are-a lot-better-than-subfolders" non-sense is your official policy, i want to hear that from your mouth.

3) in my opinion, EN is currently number one program without serious competitors but, believe me, if any other serious competitors appear in time, you will need subfolders.

1. There are no folders in Evernote.

2. We are not imposing our opinion on you or anyone else. It's a fact that for whatever reason Evernote has no sub notebooks & as far as any of us know, they have no plans on adding them. That has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion or yours or anyone else's, except for Evernote's. For whatever reason, they have chosen to not have sub notebooks.

3. Evernote is very aware that many of their users would like sub notebooks. But...see #2 above.

4. You want your right to post your opinion respected, but clearly, you do not respect the right of others who disagree with you.

[JimKn 30]

Like you I would love to see subfolders, I would even go back to being a premium member if they would add them even though I don't need any of the premium features.  That being said I have gotten use to the idea that EN will never be a perfect fit for those of us that want subfolders and always keep my fingers crossed that something similar to EN but with subfolders will come out.

 

Sometimes I just like to have access to the actual structure that the files/etc are in.  Maybe it is because I grew up using files systems such as Dos/Windows/Mac/Linux that all support this tree concept or maybe it is because I have done some programming and just like the idea of being able to access the data the same way you do in a programming IDE.  

 

Whatever the reason I like the subfolder Idea and I would like both subfolders and tags.  Some of the things I see the tag militia always doing is acting as if those of us who want subfolders are in someway advocating removal of tags which I don't think any of us are.  Which ever system is better is really subjective to the end user.  I understand that it may be easier for EN to just leave things as they are but.

 

Something I learned from lurking on these forums for months before posting, even though EN users are typically friendly and helpful if you don't want to get bashed and be the center of an argument never request subfolders.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Like you I would love to see subfolders, I would even go back to being a premium member if they would add them even though I don't need any of the premium features.  That being said I have gotten use to the idea that EN will never be a perfect fit for those of us that want subfolders and always keep my fingers crossed that something similar to EN but with subfolders will come out.

 

Sometimes I just like to have access to the actual structure that the files/etc are in.  Maybe it is because I grew up using files systems such as Dos/Windows/Mac/Linux that all support this tree concept or maybe it is because I have done some programming and just like the idea of being able to access the data the same way you do in a programming IDE.  

 

Whatever the reason I like the subfolder Idea and I would like both subfolders and tags.  Some of the things I see the tag militia always doing is acting as if those of us who want subfolders are in someway advocating removal of tags which I don't think any of us are.  Which ever system is better is really subjective to the end user.  I understand that it may be easier for EN to just leave things as they are but.

 

Something I learned from lurking on these forums for months before posting, even though EN users are typically friendly and helpful if you don't want to get bashed and be the center of an argument never request subfolders.

Please point out where anyone has been "bashed" for requesting sub notebooks. I'm pretty sure that has never happened. Certainly there are many posts stating EN does not have them and there is no indication that they ever will. Just as there are many, many requests for them. That is certainly not "bashing".

[JimKn 30]

Sorry perhaps bash is a bit harsh let me rephrase: If you don't want to be told that subfolders isn't how it works and it's most likely not going to implemented don't request subfolders.

 

Its more a feeling of hopelessness rather then an attack that a word like bash might conjure up, my bad for choosing the wrong word.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Sorry perhaps bash is a bit harsh let me rephrase: If you don't want to be told that subfolders isn't how it works and it's most likely not going to implemented don't request subfolders.

This makes no sense. You object to being answered truthfully??? Perhaps you'd like it better if we lied & said, sure, they're going to be added soon.

 

Its more a feeling of hopelessness rather then an attack that a word like bash might conjure up, my bad for choosing the wrong word.

Sorry you think the truth is "hopeless". But it is what it is. And I always find it odd that there are those who seem to love to blame the evangelists for this. But oh well...

[JohnDM 122]

I can see how people get frustrated if they -- just from the start -- prefer notebooks and nested notebooks to tags. After all that is how we all grew up with our computer files. The problem is that it doesn't scale well when you get into thousands and tens of thousands of notes.

 

But that is how some people like it. Okay . ..  . I get that.

 

I think what the forum board and some of us is telling you, from the users that are really are using Evernote on a massive scale and *really understand* how it works (and I don't yet put me in that group)  is that it just *might* be in your best interest to really try and understand how the tags work because if you don't, as you yourself grow your database of notes you *just might* find yourself EXTREMELY frustrated that the idea of "folders" are limiting in Evernote. If you wait until you have thousands of notes the task to learn the Tag system will be like climbing mount Everest.      Maybe . . .. . Maybe people are trying to give new users heads up.

 

So what I honestly see is that people that like the folders idea are using evernore for like a finite number of uses -- Just for school, Just for art brainstorming -- Just for blogging idea or maybe justa  hand full of uses

 

I was interested in more the people that used Evernote for everything

 

When I first started it seemed that a whole lot of notebooks was the most obvious way to go too -- Thank God, I did a lot of reading from some of the Mega Users who have huge numbers of files and read how they used it.   It seemed to me, that maybe they knew what they were talking about in how to retrieve  searches and finding files. It's one thing to get it into evernote, it's another thing to find exactly what you need as easily and as quckly as possible without having hundreds of false positives on searches

 

So for me,  Learning tags has been a slow process, but it's proved to be very rewarding, and as a former Why-Dosen't-Evernote-have-Nested-Folders group of people, and years or studying how I personally use evernote and how others share how they use it -- I think I see their point of a real benefit of understanding tags

 

For me . . . . I mean  . . .. I'm just say-en . . .for me, spending energy into understanding the power of tags really payed off huge . . . for me . . . .

 

 . . . just say-en

 

But . . . .more power to you if you think you understand evernote better than the mega users. If you figure it out and forge a path I just might change my Modus Operandi

[JimKn 30]

 

Sorry perhaps bash is a bit harsh let me rephrase: If you don't want to be told that subfolders isn't how it works and it's most likely not going to implemented don't request subfolders.

This makes no sense. You object to being answered truthfully??? Perhaps you'd like it better if we lied & said, sure, they're going to be added soon.

 

Its more a feeling of hopelessness rather then an attack that a word like bash might conjure up, my bad for choosing the wrong word.

Sorry you think the truth is "hopeless". But it is what it is. And I always find it odd that there are those who seem to love to blame the evangelists for this. But oh well...

 

 

The lack of hope is from the unwillingness to consider adding it.  The "It's always been done that way" mindset.   I'm sorry you think my opinions don't make sense.

[MGBWU 0]

to BurgersNFries

 

1. There are no folders in Evernote.

 

--> is this the first response reading my post? to enlighten me the relationship between stacks and notebooks? then you missed my point completely.

 

2. We are not imposing our opinion on you or anyone else. It's a fact that for whatever reason Evernote has no sub notebooks & as far as any of us know, they have no plans on adding them. That has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion or yours or anyone else's, except for Evernote's. For whatever reason, they have chosen to not have sub notebooks.

 

--> BURGERS, you appear every single discussion regarding subfolder, and blow off the subfolder suggestions as if you are an official representative of EN and know what EN is planning to do. unless you are part of EN team, do not say that "they have no plans on adding them." it sounds decisive. if you don't know any of their future plans, please listen to what others are trying to say. this is what we call "respect."

 

i know EN does not have subfolders and that is the reason i decided to write in the first place. i and many others are trying to communicate to EN, but you always cut into the communication, although you, as you admitted, do not know why they chose not to have subfolders. if you don't know the reasons why, please be quite, and do not presume that tags triumphs over subfolders. this is exactly what i found "disturbing.'

 

 

3. Evernote is very aware that many of their users would like sub notebooks. But...see #2 above.

 

--> of course, how could EN not know the necessity of subfolders when they have a lot of same subfolder suggestions in the forum? what i found disturbing is that you sound as if this is the dead issue. for me, this is very important issue. i will certainly fight to deliver my message to EN. please do not stand on my way.

4. You want your right to post your opinion respected, but clearly, you do not respect the right of others who disagree with you. 

 

--> i post to communicate, not to fight. when you respect others' opinion, you listen. but you never listen. see your numerous previous posts on the issue, and you will find that you only enjoy saying aloud your opinion without listening to others. what subfolder advocators want is not to hear from you but to share what they need. 

 

don't say we don't need subfolders simply because you do not see the reasons. others, like myself, may see the reasons. i am relatively new in EN, 2 years, but i started using computers in a serious way since 1984. i literally witnessed the evolution of the computers and experienced numerous programs, and of course understand tags and notebooks(in EN).

 

i know this would be difficult for you, but please do not write me back. 

[C6REW 416]

Hi MGBWU and welcome to the forum,

 

Evernote understand users want sub folders.

 

Evangelists, do have a better insight than others as to what is happening.

 

Evangelists are here to help Evernote staff who cannot look at all the posts. We bring to the attention of Evernote problems that need further assistance. Evangelists are volunteers and do this because we are, in general, large users of the product with useful experience in varying parts of the software.

 

The question of sub folders, as you point out comes up all the time. Unfortunately not everyone reads the forum before posing identical questions. Witnessed by my response to 5 people a couple of days ago posting the same question and all of their posts where on the opening page on the forum!

 

In answer to your opening statement, it has of course been noted and we thank you for your comments. Evernote and the evangelists are always keen to hear and learn from users and their experiences.

 

Best regards

 

 

Chris 

[jbenson2 2,147]

 

2) EN STAFFS! where are you guys? <snip> i want to hear that from your mouth.

 

 

 

I understand your other points, but this one in particular is a concern.

 

The Evernote blog can be helpful if you remember to visit it on a regular basis.

However, It is very one-sided with few, if any, user comments. 

http://blog.evernote.com/

 

There used to be a strong, vibrant, informative dialogue between the users and Evernote. 

The omnipresent "Dave Engberg" style of forum participation is long gone.

The regular Evernote podcasts - the last one was 9 months ago

The Evernote staff participation in this forum tends to be short beta announcements.

[Wern 246]

It is understandable that users want subfolders.

But as has been pointed out, there aren't any and most likely there won't be any, at least not any time soon.

This topic has been discussed many, many times here on the board. If you want more info,just use the SEARCH funktion here.

 

The practical way out - for the time being - is to learn how to use TAGS cleverly.

 

I am closing the thread.