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Text Collapse [Outlining]


ajschmidt

Idea

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Hi,

 

Please consider implementing collapsible blocks like Notion. This is a major feature that I've been waiting for years which would be very useful for my needs. 

 

Thanks

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22 minutes ago, mat_rhein said:

Since Evernote is having a really shallow folder structure 

Off topic, but Evernote has no support for folder structure
All notes reside in a single folder   
This can be observed with the Evernote Legacy product on a Mac

This works for me   
For note organization, I use the Notebook/Tag metadata fields  (Tags are Evernote's primary organization tool)
Notebooks can be organized into two levels    
Tags are a hierarchy and can be organized into unlimited levels

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5 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Evernote has no support for folder structure;    

Meant no offense there... call me old-fashioned, but I perceive stacks and notebooks as folder equivalents in their ability to categorize notes. Please don't go ahead and lecture me about the differences, the point of this thread is folding text and outlining, right?

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EN introduced 3 header levels when they released the new editor. Currently it is just that, headers in a text & content file. I don’t expect this is all about it.

I think (without any inside knowledge) that we will see a little system build around it, with outlining, collapsing sections, bookmarks you can directly jump to, standard settings and maybe the chance to publish notes and notebooks as a blog or site to the web.

It would create a complete new set of use cases, web publishing without all the trouble. IMHO just a question when this happens (and I could be wrong).

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1 hour ago, mat_rhein said:

folding text would help alleviate the need for more structure and enable oversight in large documents.

I always hate the term "large document" - seems to me an accident waiting to happen.  A lot of eggs in one basket a fumble-fingered moment,  a mouse twitch,  or a dropped connection away from being accidentally corrupted or deleted.  Plus large documents take time to download on a mobile connection.  I prefer lots of small notes tied together by titles or tags.  (Or Notebooks!)

Since I moved to using notebooks as a kind of saved search - all my Amazon orders are in |Amazon,  my automated zaps in |Zapier - I started using Workflowy as a kind of index to save links direct to notes, open templates etc..  Seems to work quite well for me - YMMV

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9 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I always hate the term "large document" ...

Right, my use of the Evernote editor is for notes, which by definition are short

I use a word processing app for "large documents"   
They are stored in Evernote as a note attachment file   
And added benefit is the outlining functions of the word processing app

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Short notes are generally the better way - but I think there are use cases where some more text could be the call of the day, and bringing structure (visual as contextual) to a document is a good idea.

EN already has upgraded the editor to create and handle H1H2H3 - they just have to make the next - IMHO logical - step to add some functionality to it now.

One use case could be a template: Created with all content, then collapsed and saved in collapsed mode. When you make a new note from it, you can expand the section to which you are adding your content, but it always stays in a compacted view. 

Or a daily log, for a month. Everything collapsed and by this not disturbing, open is only the actual day.

I am sure if this was added, there would be al million more ideas how to make use of it.

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Please add this!  I have been using Evernote for years, and have within the past 6 months returned to school and NEED this function for active recall.  I have half of my notes in Evernote, and half in Notion.  I use the active recall notes in Notion, and the regular class notes and OCR in evernnote....I would LOVE to have all of my studies and notes in one place.  Please consider.  

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Expand/ Collapse for text blocks would be great feature. As a future improvement it might be nested expand collapse similar to mind map organization of information. I still think it required inside single note and splitting info between multiple notes some times does not make sense - its changing very fast. 

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For an app that focused on notes to not have collapsing is kind of ridiculous.  It's currently the only feature that keeps me from using Evernote as my one source of notes.   Without collapsible outlines or text, info in notes just becomes cumbersome.  So yes, a big note from a lifetime Evernote paid user here...

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Starting a new job and revisiting my note taking options. Collapsable sections and bullets seems like a no brainer to at least keep up with the competitors in the space. Additionally, having a sort of floating outline/table of contents would be helpful. 

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Yes.  I wish this was not the case, but currently, I really do not have a choice.  It's a very important feature and is just too important in regards to the workflow for me at this point.  hopefully, Evernote changes this down the line.  

 

Thanks, 

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A typical workaround would be to use a word processor, and place the file as an attachment into the note.

This not only gives outlining, it has many more features missing in a basic editing environment like EN.

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This would be a really good feature for me. I am thinking whether to purchase Evernote premium, or switch to OneNote as they have a version of such a feature. OneNote's feature allows you to collapse sub-bullet points to only show the parent bullet, which can subsequently be expanded. Personally, I would be very satisfied if only this was introduced.

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On 8/28/2021 at 6:51 PM, Marcin Kupilas said:

This would be a really good feature for me. I am thinking whether to purchase Evernote premium, or switch to OneNote as they have a version of such a feature. OneNote's feature allows you to collapse sub-bullet points to only show the parent bullet, which can subsequently be expanded. Personally, I would be very satisfied if only this was introduced.

Don't know how close Evernote is to introducing anything or even if they're trying.  Since they don't (usually) do feature announcements we'll only know if/ when a new update is released.  Meantime I can quite easily use bullets via a link in my notes to Workflowy and a link from there back to the note...

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On 7/12/2018 at 3:32 PM, CraigD said:

Dear Evernote Dev Team,

I am an long-time Evernote Premium user, fan and advocate. It is part of my daily workflow, for hours per day I might add. You guys have done a wonderful job with this product and my hat goes off to you... However, this feature would be HUGE to me, and apparently many others. PLEASE consider adding this feature sooner than later. As mentioned, I am loyal but I have begun to research alternatives that would offer this feature. I really don't want to switch though. just being honest :) You guys rock!!!

Best Regards, Craig

CollapsableTextFeature.gif.cd6d39bef755a4e56691bb39cbb1a88f.gif

Adding my voice to this feature addition.

We're well aware that it seems to be Notion's USP. Adding it to Evernote would make you supreme beings. 

[Please] Do it!! 

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On 8/30/2021 at 5:33 PM, gazumped said:

Don't know how close Evernote is to introducing anything or even if they're trying.  Since they don't (usually) do feature announcements we'll only know if/ when a new update is released.  Meantime I can quite easily use bullets via a link in my notes to Workflowy and a link from there back to the note...

That previous link seems not to work for some reason - try this one:  this is workflowy

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Currently the note is the entity, no more breakdown into smaller segments inside of it.

Plus there is another reason to avoid text notes with a lot of text: They seem to be at a greater risk of syncing problems, which can lead to duplication and data loss.

If you set up a notebook for your book project, and start the title of the notes with a numbering system that reproduce your books structure, you can easily sort the notes by title. You can create empty notes already numbered and titled, and fill them later with content.

Create a Table of Content TOC note from all notes, for the overview. I am pretty sure you will find it easier and more focused to navigate your book project this way, than by large text notes.

Or take a look at real authoring programs, like Scrivener or Ulysses.

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3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Or take a look at real authoring programs, like ...

Many word processing apps support outlining (example MS Word, Apple Pages) 
The document can be stored in Evernote as a note file attachment

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On 9/25/2021 at 7:18 PM, Shyredfox said:

I know what I need for my writing and use 'real authoring programs'. They have not met my needs for this project. You came across as quite presumptive, PinkElephant. :(

Large text notes are reported in the forum as victims of synchronisation problems. v10 is "always syncing" - maybe it clashes with the rearrangement of text while editing. You are gambling with your content, not mine.

But as you know everything already, and are not interested in learning, I wish you luck. Maybe it helps.

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@PinkElephant said: "v10 is "always syncing" - maybe it clashes with the rearrangement of text while editing."

YEP - a big problem not even in context of missing text collapsing features. If I would be a ProductOwner, I would elevate stability of well known functions to the highest priority. But immediately thereafter - text collapsing 😉

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@AlbertR I agree - it would be nice if the text size would play no role, and a note could be structured in a better way (outlining, in-note-tags, whatever). If you think about 80 characters per line, 40 lines per page, 500 pages per book, you could fit the text of 30 books into a single 200MB note. Hard to navigate without any tools.

Unfortunately the current v10 client was IMHO not build to house large writing projects in a single note. Maybe this will be changed one day, but currently the only ways to handle it is to break long notes down into several smaller ones - or use a tool build for authoring.

Using legacy could help with the sensitivity to syncing - but not with navigation, and when such notes are opened on other devices lacking a legacy option, problems will be back.

If I were EN I would not introduce outlining or in-note-tags before the syncing issue is not resolved. Maybe this is exactly what is happening …

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I am 100% behind this idea. It's one of only two things that is stopping me from subscribing to premium, the other being the ability to create a Table of Contents based on the Large/Medium/Small Headings within a note. I'm considering switching to Notion or Coda for these features.

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2 hours ago, Steve Escott said:

Please implement Collapsible Tree notes. This is a huge minus right now for Evernote. I use Evernote for everything - except my tree-notes, which I still use OneNote for. Bummer.

Meantime I use Workflowy.  Copy/ paste links to WF content,  and include Evernote links back to a note,

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I have some notes that go on and on which I have been breaking apart into separate notes and then not remembering which note had the piece that I needed to refer back to. Then when I was building my website and added a longer data collection form I used a collapsible section in that form and suddenly I can't imagine not having this feature in Evernote. This feature alone would be worth the price of admission.

I'm not prone to begging but.... please, please, please, make me some collapsible dividers/sections in individual notes!!! Thank you in advance!

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As I would like to see this feature emerge one day, a word of caution: Giving that currently EN treats the entire note as building block, outlining or setting in-note markers is a major change. I doubt we will see it any time soon.

Using a TOC note and linking notes together are at the moment the best way to organize larger bodies of text into an integration.

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1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Giving that currently EN treats the entire note as building block, outlining or setting in-note markers is a major change. I doubt we will see it any time soon.

While the length of time this feature request has been pending probably means you are right... There are several examples where "EN treats the entire note as a building block" is not true.... the introduction of "draggable" bullet/checklist items with the new editor seemed to suggest to me that this feature is coming.  But maybe that is wishful thinking.

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THIS IS A MUST HAVE IN 2021!

The moment any other alternative which already has outline is going to implement colors what Evernote has, I leave Evernote if it still wont have outline, at least a simple collapse.

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When I read one more of this **** Posts telling „and if not, I will leave“, I always think: Could you guys please agree on a date for your action, and do it ?

Because I am convinced the next day EN would roll out all these features, for sure ready for launch since years, and only held back because of these **** postings. Nobody enjoys to release valuable, precious new features to such an ignorant, disrespectful mob.

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I really wish the collapsible text / toggle lists were part of Evernote. I can't imagine any serious user with a large amount of content on Evernote not needing this. Particularly if you are using it for work or university.

I have been with Evernote for 9 years so it would be a real pain for me to move to another app and I don't want to use more than one app if I can avoid it. Life is complicated enough. But this really is the only (and I mean the only) feature that after all these years makes me think that Evernote is not keeping up or in touch with users.

Is there any indication at all that they are thinking of adding this?

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1 hour ago, Katerina512 said:

I can't imagine any serious user with a large amount of content on Evernote not needing this. Particularly if you are using it for work or university.

Hmmn.  I have 55,000 notes and have used Evernote pretty much exclusively for 12 years.  Amongst other things I'm a technical author and copywriter.  Evernote does fine for me.

1 hour ago, Katerina512 said:

I don't want to use more than one app if I can avoid it. Life is complicated enough.

Having said which I also use Workflowy for outlining - and as a sort of quick look-up index for my Evernote detailed notes.  Alongside Outlook for mail / LibreOffice and MSOffice for various spreadsheet, presentation and writing tasks / Freeplane for MindMapping / LinkedIn for business contacts / Lightroom & Flickr for photography / Fusion 360 for 3D printing / Calibre for books and documents / Phrase Express for text expansion... and about 20 specialised Chrome extensions for everything from clipping to social media posts.

Welcome to the wonderful world of IT!

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Until the „one app that does it all“ is there, it is a bloated, unusable piece of junk. I see this bloating tendency as well in many feature request here.

I rather prefer a lean (yes), reliable (mainly) and performant (well …) app that keeps it simple.

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5 hours ago, Katerina512 said:

. I can't imagine any serious user with a large amount of content on Evernote not needing this.

I have a large amount of content on Evernote"

My notes do not need outlining

Some of my word processing documents need outlining.
I use the Apple Pages editor, and store the document as a note file attachment

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On 10/10/2021 at 1:19 AM, PinkElephant said:

As I would like to see this feature emerge one day, a word of caution: Giving that currently EN treats the entire note as building block, outlining or setting in-note markers is a major change. I doubt we will see it any time soon.

Using a TOC note and linking notes together are at the moment the best way to organize larger bodies of text into an integration.

Good to know.

Do you happen to know if EN is likely to give us any lead time or heads up on this one? The lack of communication can be frustrating, not knowing what is coming ahead of time and whether particular requests are at all considered or ignored.

The forum is where community discussion is meant to take place and where we can vote for what users want, but EN staff don't get involved on the fourm (as far as I can tell, bar one or two individual posts) and - if I recall correctly, though I'm reluctant to even state this - I believe the forum is seen to be too "toxic" to be interacted with?

I've followed this post for some time and I would agree there is toxicity - but with posting rules and a moderator, those posts can be deleted as often as needed and a real conversation can take place. A lack of response from EN on top-voted community feature requests can only build frustration.

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31 minutes ago, Alcafs said:

A lack of response from EN on top-voted community feature requests can only build frustration.

Evernote,  like most developers,  doesn't (usually*) comment on whether or not a feature request is in development,  or - if it is - when it's likely to be released.  It's not a question of toxicity,  but you can guarantee that if the company said that (forinstance) "in-note links will be included with the next release" there will be a flood of responses demanding

  • more details of exactly how this will be implemented
  • more details of the level of subscription required - and why isn't it available to Free users?
  • exact dates for the release
  • why this is being prioritised above <insert favourite missing feature here>
  • why this has taken so long

...plus objections to adding more 'clutter' to the UI and a flood of new suggestions about exactly how it should work.

And if they gave a date...

Because of another issue - server problems,  web outages,  whatever;  the next release may be delayed - queue the usual suspects flooding the forum with further demands on release date +1 - "You said this would be released..."

- So they'd rather keep their people actually working on developments instead of defending them.

* And yes,  I know they trailed v10 rather heavily,  but that was a special deal.  

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Evernote,  like most developers,  doesn't (usually*) comment on whether or not a feature request is in development,  or - if it is - when it's likely to be released.  It's not a question of toxicity,  but you can guarantee that if the company said that (forinstance) "in-note links will be included with the next release" there will be a flood of responses demanding

  • more details of exactly how this will be implemented
  • more details of the level of subscription required - and why isn't it available to Free users?
  • exact dates for the release
  • why this is being prioritised above <insert favourite missing feature here>
  • why this has taken so long

...plus objections to adding more 'clutter' to the UI and a flood of new suggestions about exactly how it should work.

And if they gave a date...

Because of another issue - server problems,  web outages,  whatever;  the next release may be delayed - queue the usual suspects flooding the forum with further demands on release date +1 - "You said this would be released..."

- So they'd rather keep their people actually working on developments instead of defending them.

* And yes,  I know they trailed v10 rather heavily,  but that was a special deal.  

 

 

 

I don't mean to suggest they give us a date, only that they say "we've seen this requested feature" and perhaps a "it will be considered fully at the appropriate time in the future, it is on the roadmap (unscheduled)".

Perhaps we've already had something like that on some of these feature requests, but those messages are few and far apart.

Just any recognition that they agree/conceed that it's a valid feature request that they would *like* to see - that would be enough for me.

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Sorry, but this sounds like „give us a bit thin hot air to make us feel happy“ to me. And next week - more of the same ? Until the balloon 🎈 flies ?

It is called expectation management, you employ some highly paid spin doctors to do it. I prefer they get some more devs for that money, and continue coding, testing and releasing.

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2 hours ago, Alcafs said:

"we've seen this requested feature" and perhaps a "it will be considered fully at the appropriate time in the future, it is on the roadmap (unscheduled)".

I think you can assume that any suggested feature is on list somewhere,  and will be referred to whenever the company is doing maintenance or considering updates in that area.  Bear in mind that Evernote get thousands of feature requests,  running from "I don't like the shade of green you use" to "why not add outlining and mind maps as optional layouts".

Every suggestion has to go through a process of

  • Is this even possible? (Bearing in mind multiple devices / screen sizes / OS's)
  • How much will it cost?
  • Of our 200M+ users,  from students to astronauts - how many would actively use this?
  • What will it cost in speed / bandwidth terms?

- and even if it meets all these tests (and probably dozens more) a "minor" improvement may mean substantially rewriting a big chunk of code to add the extra links for the new bit to fit in.  That might get put off until that particular code needs an annual review anyway - due in a couple of years - to get planned in to any other work that comes up in the meantime.

So even if someone said "We'll look into this" - it may not happen for years,  and if a different bit of development takes priority,  or user needs change,  maybe not even then.

But for ever after:  cue endless reminders of "when is this coming?" ...  "You said you'd consider it..."

I'm with @PinkElephant - I'd rather they just hide in their bunker and get on with whatever they're doing.  If the app fits my needs,  I'll continue using it.  If there are glitches,  I'll find work-arounds;  and if it becomes unusable - I'm outta here. 

No dramatic flounces,  no impassioned statements - just a faint smell of brimstone and a drifting tumbleweed...

:ph34r:

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3 hours ago, Katerina512 said:

How long are your notes, on average?

? No clue.  Including images and clipped web pages the overall average note size is something like 600K - but my point was that for all normal purposes I use Evernote for narrative content;  I'll switch to Workflowy for lists - and I have some hundreds (possibly thousands) of notes there,  arranged in a hierarchy that I can shut down to a dozen global headings and expand out again as required.  The detail of a task - clips,  files and tasks/ reminders is in Evernote,  but my 'quick reference guide' to get to a list of that detail is in WF.

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