Tons of spam in forums

[Ava 2]

I've unchecked notify me of new comments in my email. But I am getting ONS of spam new topic notifications every day. It seems nobody is moderating. I dont want to waste my time looking in the forum if there is mostly spam. It needs to be better organized and moderated quicly before it gets to the real members using evernote. I come here to learn and save more time, not waste more of it

 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I've unchecked notify me of new comments in my email. But I am getting ONS of spam new topic notifications every day. It seems nobody is moderating. I dont want to waste my time looking in the forum if there is mostly spam. It needs to be better organized and moderated quicly before it gets to the real members using evernote. I come here to learn and save more time, not waste more of it

 

We're doing our best! But, the Mumbai escort service industry is apparently quite serious about getting their messages out to us. I often catch spammers the very minute that they post (can't get much quicker than that), but I think the notifications go out to people automatically, so the spam is still free to fill up your inbox, even if the user that posted it is banned and all posts are removed from the forums. 

[jbenson2 2,147]

It seems to be the worst on a Friday evening and the weekend after Evernote staff have gone home.

People like GrumpyMonkey pitch in and do some fire fighting.

I also do not use the forum notification feature.

[spg SCOTT 736]

As one of the ones trying to deal with the spam, and having killed a few today myself. (In some cases, minutes after they have posted) I tell you there are people moderating.

Most of the spam (if not all, at least today) has been new topics, so your changing of the setting of "new comments" would do nothing to stop you receiving the notifications.

As is the nature of spam, we cannot remove it until it is posted, so the problem will always be there.

It does sound to me like you have "Followed" a specific forum, seeing as you are getting new topic notifications. I would suggest going to the specific sub forums that you have followed and clicking on the "Unfollow this forum" button just below "View New Content".

For the record, when you "Follow" a topic or forum, you can choose how often you recieve a notification. From Instantly to Weekly digests.

Scott

[Wern 246]

Yes, we're doing our best to remove as many Spam posts as quickly as we can. But these folks in Mumbai are persistent and tenacious. They are trying hard.

Unless we will put severe restrictions on new users, this will always be a bit of a cat and mouse game.

[spg SCOTT 736]

Just want to add, I knew there should be a way to see what forums you are subscribed to. You should be able to change it here:

http://discussion.evernote.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=followed&search_app=forums&contentType=forums

[haider 7]

For the record, when you "Follow" a topic or forum, you can choose how often you recieve a notification. From Instantly to Weekly digests.

Scott

 Would changing to weekly digest remove the incoming flood of spam?

[jbenson2 2,147]

Just want to add, I knew there should be a way to see what forums you are subscribed to. You should be able to change it here:

http://discussion.evernote.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=followed&search_app=forums&contentType=forums

 

If you are not following any threads, you will get the following apology from Evernote:

 

Sorry, we could not find any content you are following.

[cwb 225]

Ok. Seems a rather old school manual approach for a technology focused company.

And I'm not sure how much moderation coverage you have in the very early morning hours when this comes in. I've myself reported a half dozen each of these on three different occasions this month, which didn't seem to have much timely cleanup.

Some of the antispam features offered by this forum software but perhaps not enabled in the Evernote instance don't seem that drastic.

But if sticking to a human response It would seem the Evernote forums need more help during the off hours.

I realize it's a problem for IP.Board rather than Evernote per se to solve, but it sure seems that forum readers could use deputy powers with that Report button. Until an account has a certain time/reputation, having a post reported should make all that accounts posts from that day, disappear into a moderation queue.

[megsaint 441]

Part of the problem with the Mumbai escort type software is that it's done by actual people setting up actual accounts. It's harder to keep them out while at the same time keeping the sign up procedure from preventing people who need help from signing up.

[megsaint 441]

Maybe they'll leave us alone for a bit. They're busy slamming the iPad forum on the Apple Support Communities right now. And the ASC has no post limit for new users.

[jbenson2 2,147]

Until an account has a certain time/reputation, having a post reported should make all that accounts posts from that day, disappear into a moderation queue.

 

That seems like a super idea. Use the Report Feature on new spamming accounts to automatically hide all previous messages AND prevent any new messages until the reported user is cleared or permanently blocked by an Evernote administrator / Evangelist. The definition of a new account can be set and adjusted by Evernote.

 

Drawback: Evernote would have to pressure the 3rd party forum supplier to enhance the model.

[jbenson2 2,147]

Maybe they'll leave us alone for a bit. They're busy slamming the iPad forum on the Apple Support Communities right now. And the ASC has no post limit for new users.

 

 

12:30am CST

They're back...

[gbarry 2,658]

 

Until an account has a certain time/reputation, having a post reported should make all that accounts posts from that day, disappear into a moderation queue.

 

That seems like a super idea. Use the Report Feature on new spamming accounts to automatically hide all previous messages AND prevent any new messages until the reported user is cleared or permanently blocked by an Evernote administrator / Evangelist. The definition of a new account can be set and adjusted by Evernote.

 

Drawback: Evernote would have to pressure the 3rd party forum supplier to enhance the model.

 

 

A few things...

 

We have the settings available to adjust the capabilities of new accounts, but any more restrictions on a new forum account and we risk preventing all of the real users who log in here daily from actually commenting to defray what are tops 10-15 spam messages daily out of the thousands received weekly. On balance, I will always lean towards keeping it easy for real users to interact and post.

 

The report function isn't only used for spam accounts, so that seems a pretty big hammer for what is a relatively small nail.

 

The *real* problem is three fold.  First, we are growing, which means that the bigger we get the more we are targeted because of our rankings in search engines.  Second (as Meg correctly stated), we are being targeted by real people who must first create an Evernote account, then log into the forum, set a display name, and post. That's already at least 4 steps, and that's not including the multiple steps needed to set up an Evernote account.  So adding another layer (say captcha) makes no sense.  Third (and this points to your point about early morning spam cwb), we have a relatively worldwide set of moderators, but they are primarily concentrated in the US and EU (because, up until a few months ago this was a primarily English based forum), which leaves us with a few gaps in terms of who is awake and when to clear out the spam. I'd love to have a few moderators based in east Asia to close the gap.

 

As Scott mentioned, if you are receiving regular emails on this spam, it's likely you are following an *entire* forum and not an individual thread.  Spammers tend to start new topics, so if you are following say the entirety of the General Discussion forum, you are going to receive an email update every time a new topic is started.  Moving to a daily or weekly digest rather than automatic individual emails could also help ameliorate the problem if you still want to follow a specific forum.

 

Hope this helps.  We really do try our best to clean up spam as quickly as possible, and the volunteer mods are doing yeoman's work around making sure the space is clear of it. Really, the Mumbai and movie posts are the easiest--we have all kinds trying to spam with status updates, links only on punctuation, pretend replies that link to a somewhat related but not really product.  Good times.

[ApplianceJunk 23]

I think every one is doing a fine job, thanks!

[cwb 225]

The report function isn't only used for spam accounts, so that seems a pretty big hammer for what is a relatively small nail.

Thats a feature not a bug. Does the reason for reporting really matter? It covers multiple use cases.

• it makes no change to the sign up process (which isn't the problem, it's signed up behaviour that's the problem)
• it makes no change to the Report function for the bulk of accounts which have established themselves as community members in productive standing, reporting would work exactly as it does now for them.
• it addresses your manpower issue. If *any* community member is awake to read it, then they're empowered to do something about it rather than just tattle and it just sits there for 8 hours until a mod wakes up and checks in.
• Never underestimate the benefit of empowering the community.
• it's not just a problem if people are receiving email spam, it's mere presence is annoying and affects the reputation of the forums.
• the potential for abuse of the reporting tool is even less than for spam, but in any case the forum software according to the documentation already allows for disabling a single accounts ability to Report, so even that's mitigatable.

But sure, add many many more moderators and the effect would be perhaps almost as effective.

But don't just wait for growth in other timezones. The current batch of moderators may go to bed early, but there are plenty of IT and developers who are up late and already Reporting this stuff.

[cwb 225]

The nightly batch arrives... again...

 

 

Recent Topics


{{09167723939}}@09167723939,Mumbai Model Escorts|Mumbai Independent Escorts
sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:35 AM

VIP Mumbai Independent Escorts in Mumbai Escorts Services@@09167723939
sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:34 AM

Aℕ$ℎika ℳuℳℬai ℐℕdℰpℰℕdℰℕt ℰsℂoℝts, % 09167723939 %} Mumbai Escorts Service
sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:32 AM

Mumbai Independent Escorts|$|-09867746289-|$|Vashi Call Girls in Mumbai
sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:30 AM

 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

The nightly batch arrives... again...

 

 

Recent Topics

How to send SMS messages from Android to computer?

terkery - Today, 12:41 AM

{{09167723939}}@09167723939,Mumbai Model Escorts|Mumbai Independent Escorts

sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:35 AM

VIP Mumbai Independent Escorts in Mumbai Escorts Services@@09167723939

sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:34 AM

Aℕ$ℎika ℳuℳℬai ℐℕdℰpℰℕdℰℕt ℰsℂoℝts, % 09167723939 %} Mumbai Escorts Service

sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:32 AM

Mumbai Independent Escorts|$|-09867746289-|$|Vashi Call Girls in Mumbai

sexyduniyagirls - Today, 12:30 AM

 

 

Took care of them. Thanks!

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

The current batch of moderators may go to bed early, but there are plenty of IT and developers who are up late and already Reporting this stuff.

You are making incorrect assumptions.  The "current batch of moderators" are on the board at any given time.  I'd venture to say I'm on the board quite a bit when you are sound asleep.  Admittedly, b/c we are volunteers, there probably is not a mod on the board 24/7.  However, it is very common for one or more mods to be on during the time you call "late".  But, since we are not here 24/7, sure, there may be 30-60 minutes (or a bit more) where the spam remains.  As megsaint said, many of the spammers are live posting & as soon as we delete one user, another will appear. But I'm absolutely sure you have only seen a small portion b/c I know for a fact that not only I have removed a lot of spam within a few minutes of it appearing, but that others have as well.  So you think you see a lot of spam...you've seen just a teeny tiny portion of it. 

 

 

 

BTW, you do not need to report each message.  Simply reporting one post per spammer is sufficient.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

And since my post above (eight minutes ago), I've just flagged two new users as spammers.  (Not to be confused with the ones GM already flagged.)  And the night is still young.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

And another one.  This is pretty much how it goes. 

[cwb 225]

You are making incorrect assumptions....But I'm absolutely sure you have only seen a small portion b/c I know for a fact that not only I have removed a lot of spam within a few minutes of it appearing, but that others have as well. 

 

BTW, you do not need to report each message.  Simply reporting one post per spammer is sufficient.

 

 

I'm not saying that minion hordes aren't being kept at bay and deleted.

I'm reflecting that what remains, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, stays for quite a while, between 12:30am and 3:30 am Pacific (I'm not around to say to what degree beyond that).

However long it stays, it's long and profitable enough to encourage repeat performances.

Seems a waste of your volunteer effort to not adapt.

Take that as informational, or not.

 

Happy to hear, I can use fewer clicks.  Thanks.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

 

You are making incorrect assumptions....But I'm absolutely sure you have only seen a small portion b/c I know for a fact that not only I have removed a lot of spam within a few minutes of it appearing, but that others have as well. 

 

BTW, you do not need to report each message.  Simply reporting one post per spammer is sufficient.

 

 

I'm not saying that minion hordes aren't being kept at bay and deleted.

I'm reflecting that what remains, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, stays for quite a while, between 12:30am and 3:30 am Pacific (I'm not around to say to what degree beyond that).

However long it stays, it's long and profitable enough to encourage repeat performances.

Seems a waste of your volunteer effort to not adapt.

Take that as informational, or not.

 

Happy to hear, I can use fewer clicks.  Thanks.

 

 

 

Spam, like death & taxes, exists.  If you find it particularly unsavory to deal with a relatively few spam posts during that time, I would suggest you visit the board during other times when the spam may not be so prevalent.  As Geoff said, there MUST be a balance between eliminating spammers & allowing new, valid users the ability to post.  Especially since most of the time, new posters are here with a question and/or problem.  Since most (all?) message board software is "canned", EN can only do what the package allows.

[cwb 225]

 

Spam, like death & taxes, exists.  If you find it particularly unsavory to deal with a relatively few spam posts during that time, I would suggest you visit the board during other times when the spam may not be so prevalent.  As Geoff said, there MUST be a balance between eliminating spammers & allowing new, valid users the ability to post.  Especially since most of the time, new posters are here with a question and/or problem.  Since most (all?) message board software is "canned", EN can only do what the package allows.

 

 

Sounds a little defeatist to me, but regardless, staying on point, I note you quote nothing in my comments which would bar a new poster the ability to post.  On the other hand perhaps, those heeding your suggestion to come back at less convenient times of the the day when spam is less prevalent or more managed, are somewhat disenfranchised.

 

In IT I'm well immersed in finding the balances between tools productively serving the end-user vs tackling the abusers.

There are still ways to adapt to curb non-desired behavior and allow the desired.

I'm aware Evernote is bound by the limitations of IP.Board

And yet there seem, though it's somewhat opaque, to be untapped anti-spam features listed as available to IP.Board 3.4.5

 

http://www.invisionpower.com/support/guides/_/spam-security-and-privacy/ips-spam-monitoring-service-r7

 

 

 

The IPS Spam Monitoring Service is a free service to all active Suite license holders (with a minimum renewal threshold) and IPS Hosting clients. The service works by learning from the thousands of IPS Community Suite installs by detecting registration trends and from site-owner reports. By seeing a single email address signing up on multiple communities in a short period, the system can start to assume this is a spammer. Also, the Flag as Spam feature can be used to report back to IPS and the system will learn from that information.

 

Spam isn't inevitable.  Google and many others (Cisco IronPort) have had great success taking community input and algorithmic learning to apply very effective filters.  Sounds like IP.Board has that available as well.  There seem to be much much larger IP.Board communities than Evernote's 64,000, I wonder how they're coping and faring.

 

Anyways the quote from the documentation essentially gets at what I was suggesting.  It just seems like at the moment it's only a tool exposed to a mod/admin.  As we end users see no "Flag as spam" button.  And that's were the efficiency is had.  A Google or a Cisco puts that flag in the end-users control, and applies automated moderation based on collected end-user reports.

[cwb 225]

I suppose there's some marketing bias to be had, but it is interesting to click the link in the bottom right here in the forums, and click Spam Monitor on the services tab.
 
 

What's the problem with traditional spam handling?
Traditional techniques for dealing with spam typically rely on either clearing up after spammers have already hit, or applying overly restrictive limits onall users in an effort to thwart the spammers. A community disrupted by spam means new and existing users are deterred from contributing, and it costs time and money for staff to clear up the mess

Sounds like the reasons given here for not doing more or doing different, in spam fighting, are given as results of the current approach, by the developers of the Evernote forum software.  And they seem pretty confident in their ability to stop spammers before they start.
Is that not turned on here?
 
(I only Reported one of ashwinikhanna1 posts  .  It's cute that ashwinikhanna can be banned at 1:01am, and register and spam as ashwinikhanna1 at 2:05am - doesn't seem like we're using the technology available...)
 
And here's why that's a problem.  The fact that the posts stay up for 20mins, 60mins or more means Google indexes them.  I've reported 4 this hour some of which seemed to hang around for at least 45 minutes.
 
By the time mods cleanup, it lingers on in Google.
5 pages of cached evernote posts dating back to May 2011 just on one search term.
 
Or 34 pages dating back to 2010 for search term: Mumbai Escorts site:evernote.com
 
 
The free advertising is going to keep these guys coming back until you can stop them before posting.
[snipped out the HTML ads, Realized I was still giving them more free advertising with the post.]

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I doubt we will be able to stop spam before it occurs, unless you have a spare precog we can borrow. As for 45 minutes, that seems unlikely, since I have been checking the forums every few minutes, but I guess anything is possible.

 

You are probably correct about Google indexing this stuff. I am afraid I do not know the solution, but it is good to hear suggestions. Perhaps we'll discover a way to foil their efforts. 

[Metrodon 2,184]

I'll try and only sign up for one Dubai lady a day, maybe that will stop them?

 

Given the desire to keep the board open to new users and the slightly limiting software, the only real option seems to be to add more hands.

[cwb 225]

I doubt we will be able to stop spam before it occurs, unless you have a spare precog we can borrow.

For sure not if you don't have the features turned on that IP.BOard provides, no.

It's their words not mine.

It doesn't take precognition to prevent ashwinikhanna1 signing up an hour after ashwinikhanna was banned especially if using similar IP's and or email addresses (I'm not saying that's so in this case, but you're welcome to share if so).

And especially not if they've already been banned on another IP.Board forum. But again you have to be using the IP.Board Spam monitor to know that.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

 

I doubt we will be able to stop spam before it occurs, unless you have a spare precog we can borrow.

For sure not if you don't have the features turned on that IP.BOard provides, no.

It's their words not mine.

It doesn't take precognition to prevent ashwinikhanna1 signing up an hour after ashwinikhanna was banned especially if using similar IP's and or email addresses (I'm not saying that's so in this case, but you're welcome to share if so).

And especially not if they've already been banned on another IP.Board forum. But again you have to be using the IP.Board Spam monitor to know that.

 

 

We don't use email addresses. We use Evernote accounts. They are signing up for the accounts and then signing into the forums. There are a lot of hoops they have to jump through, but apparently they find it worth the effort to post about Mumbai escorts in an English language forum that probably does not get a whole lot of traffic from people living in Mumbai. To ban the user before they post, we would have to ban a "legitimate" Evernote user from posting because their name is similar to a spammer's or because they happen to be using a particular IP address (with VPN, even I sometimes login from India). This seems unlikely to happen, but I don't know the details, and Geoff (the Evernote employee in charge of the forums) is the expert in this regard.

[cwb 225]

With respect metro and grumpy I suggest reading your forums documentation as required reading before making pronouncements. Just as I have before posting in the first place.

It would be a more persuasive argument to hear any of:

-That feature is on but it's not working.

-we tried it and this <collateral damage> happened.

-we made a bad forum software choice that we're stuck with. The developers make sweeping marketing claims but the devs can't code their way out of a wet paper bag.

Otherwise it sounds like:

-We don't know how to use the software we bought as per directed best practice.

-and we're kind of fond of running with scissors and fingers in our ears. lalala can't hear any anything different to try for this escort spam we've been propping up for 4 years even though our specific instance of IP.Board seems disproportionately affected by it.

But hey sure. Throw more people at it. It's something. It's an incredible waste of people power for a software company. But maybe that's instructive too.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

With respect metro and grumpy I suggest reading your forums documentation as required reading before making pronouncements. Just as I have before posting in the first place.

Thanks for the suggestion. However, I don't think it would do us much good. I've read quite a bit of it, but I haven't ever come across any magic bullets for spam.

 

It would be a more persuasive argument to hear any of:

-That feature is on but it's not working.

-we tried it and this <collateral damage> happened.

-we made a bad forum software choice that we're stuck with. The developers make sweeping marketing claims but the devs can't code their way out of a wet paper bag.

1. We don't turn features on or off.

2. We don't have access to that kind of data.

3. We don't make forum software choices.

 

Otherwise it sounds like:

-We don't know how to use the software we bought as per directed best practice.

-and we're kind of fond of running with scissors and fingers in our ears. lalala can't hear any anything different to try for this escort spam we've been propping up for 4 years even though our specific instance of IP.Board seems disproportionately affected by it.

1. We only know how to use the tools we have (the ability to flag spammers). We have no other special powers or knowledge about the software.

2. We are listening, but as stated repeatedly in this thread, and again here, this is the best solution we have devised. Thank you again for the suggestions.

 

But hey sure. Throw more people at it. It's something. It's an incredible waste of people power for a software company. But maybe that's instructive too.

I don't have anything to add, and I kind of doubt there is much more that the other moderators have to add on the topic, because we work with the tools we have. Gbarry has already explained his rationale for the current setup. It makes sense to me. Please do not take my (or our) ignorance of all the software tools available to be in any way a reflection of Gbarry's knowledge -- he's an expert on this sort of stuff and has put a lot of time into designing the forums. I suggest you PM him with your suggestions and questions, because I think he is probably the only person in the forums who can answer you.

[cwb 225]

We don't use email addresses. We use Evernote accounts.

And email addresses are a required field for Evernote account registration, no?

 

 

but apparently they find it worth the effort to post about Mumbai escorts in an English language forum that probably does not get a whole lot of traffic from people living in Mumbai.

 

 

Of course they do.  You let them, and their posts live on in Google for years.

 

To ban the user before they post, we would have to ban a "legitimate" Evernote user from posting because their name is similar to a spammer's or because they happen to be using a particular IP address (with VPN, even I sometimes login from India). 

 

 

They aren't legitimate if the signatures of the person or bot match a known offender, not based on one or two identity factors but all of them, within context.  It's one thing to mistake JohnSmith and JohnSmith10 who signed up months apart, from different states or maybe even both from "Verizon".  It's another thing to think  ashwinikhanna and  ashwinikhanna1 in the same hour, when the first one has been banned with or with out any other coroborating signatures, might not be the same source.  And that it might be better to have posts from the second account go straight to moderation.

 

Just as (except in the US in most states) you don't sell a gun to a convicted felon, wait until they shoot someone, and then just wipe away the mess after some number of minutes after a bystander "Reports" the mess, and call it done.  Then watch as they come back an hour later with a fake moustache on.  (Bartender: Say aren't you that rope I just threw out of here?  "Nope, I'm a Frayed Knot")

 

You actually can prevent a known offender from offending over and over and over, without disenfranchising any real legitimate posters.

 

How much spam do you get in your Gmail inbox?

And I'll bet without a lot of false positives.

We don't suppose it's human moderators moving mail from your inbox to your spam folder do we?

 

This is some pretty simple human behavior we can watch over and over and learn from.

Google takes the approach that we can take inputs from the community, and from watching behavior, to learn what items to stop before they get displayed.

 

but I don't know the details, and Geoff (the Evernote employee in charge of the forums) is the expert in this regard.

 

 

You're not posting or deferring as though that were the case, today...

[cwb 225]

1. We don't turn features on or off.

2. We don't have access to that kind of data.

3. We don't make forum software choices.

Then maybe not so much jump in speaking on behalf of Evernote of what will or won't work?  To someone (though not running an instance of IP.Board) does run public servers fighting off spam for corporations?

 

Gbarry has already explained his rationale for the current setup. It makes sense to me. Please do not take my (or our) ignorance of all the software tools available to be in any way a reflection of Gbarry's knowledge.

 

I don't, unless you answer on Evernote's behalf, and step into the IT realm with what can and can't be done.  Then we're going to go to the mat.

 

Notice my complete absence of suggesting where you may be completely wrong in the areas of Philosophy and 16th century Japan.

 

A long circuitous route to say, +1 to poor original poster AVA, and others like her who will follow.

No one is saying a lot isn't getting dealt with.

What they're saying is what remains afterward still seems like a lot to those live in other forums as well.

And when you ask Google, the effort was wasted because years worth is all there (Google Webmaster Tools can help with that though).

 

We'll have to keep our voices down now though, I think BnF may have nodded off...

[cwb 225]

By way of hope I collected URL's for the largest IP.Board clients from the IP.Board forums.  Sites with 100's of thousands of accounts, to 2 million accounts.

Of the top 20 sites, not one had any Google cache history of Mumbai Escort spam posts.

One site had a link to it as their homepage in an account profile, but that's as close as it got.

Seems like there may be ideas to be shared.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I think you are misconstruing my comments. I don't remember making any declarations about the state of the field of forum software, suggesting in any way that I am speaking "for" Evernote, or questioning your IT competency.

I do know what moderators can and can't do / do and don't do here, so I feel competent to speak on that. Please read my previous posts again if you are interested in that. Again, I'd recommend speaking directly with Gbarry by PM if you have concrete suggestions. He can answer your questions / concerns about the software capabilities of the vendor.

[Metrodon 2,184]

Remember that registration really happens at Evernote, the board software doesn't have any control and I'm sure is set up just to accept any account that Evernote have approved. Given that it seemed (from memory) remarkably difficult to get SSO set up in the first place I'm pretty sure they are not in a hurry to revisit it.

[gbarry 2,658]

^^^ basically this.  The more advanced spam features available to us as part of the forum software are nixed by the fact that we use SSO with our service.  Because almost all of the anti-spam options happen as part of IP.Board's login regime, we can't partake.

What we do use in the spam control options is what we're already using, which are broad powers that allow our mods to quickly clear out spam without too much trouble, and without having to hunt down where a poster may have sneaked in a post. 

 

CWB: your suggestion with reporting is likely something that would take a bit of work with our forum providers to make happen--it's not presently a function of the reporting system, which is merely an alert that allows us to review problematic/questionable content.  The reason I mentioned earlier that it's a sledgehammer for relatively small nail is because the reporting feature is a multipurpose tool.  It can be used incorrectly, used to single out one objectionable post from an otherwise upstanding community member, to flag spam, to flag a problem that we (Evernote) need to look at, etc.  Adding short-term ban powers to the reporting function basically negates the rest of its utility, hence my reticence for making major adjustments to it (beyond the fact that I'd rather direct resources on improving the forum elsewhere, too).

[aussiebob 35]

First of all hi guys.

Ive moderated a few forums in the past and most have been Vbuletin Forums.

Have you guys considered moving across to that.

There are filters in-place but just looking around ,the forum looks well kept.

You can never have too many forum mods.

Various time zone mods are always helpful.

[cwb 225]

It get that SSO can bypass some of the native protections.

Generally that means it becomes incumbent to provide that filtering as part of your replacement signup.

 

But also on the Wiki's I've worked with there's still a window to protect against this stuff.

 

Having an account in the SSO database doesn't alleviate the need for a forums account to be created.

There's still a registration step required to generate the userspace stuff in the Wiki/Forum.  The checks can be done there.

You could conceivably have an Evernote account, but based on your IP reputation or signup credentials, not be eligible for a forum account.

 

Is Evernote really the only IP.Board user with SSO?  If not, why are the others not experiencing the same year after year problem with spam?

[cwb 225]

As noble as the almost wasted moderator anti-spam efforts are, here's again, in part why the tap never shuts off.  They're getting what they want.  Maybe if nothing else, you could work with Matt Cutts, head of the web spam team at Google and get some filtering in at their end, or they can provide some tips to Evernote.

https://plus.google.com/+MattCutts/about

 

Here's the problem, again.

I observed and reported some more stuff at 11:30.

So you're thinking, yay, cleared it out in 22 minutes or so.

 

 

Until you look at the Google cache for the posts you just deleted, and you find that it was picked up by Google almost the very minute it was posted.  A manual human response just isn't going to stop this ever, unless it's to, like with Google, provide signals which train and inform an automated, preemptive response.

 

 

(Includes from Evernote shares still seems borked.  Fixed images)

GBarry: JBenson2 still couldn't see them when logged in.

[gbarry 2,658]

Fair points.  I'll check into seeing if we can conduct some workaround with IPB that also utilizes their spam control measures in addition to our SSO.

[gbarry 2,658]

We've now reworked the registration process to take advantage of the forum software's native anti-spam features--started mid last week. This is completely transparent to you all, and based on our logs everything is working. Jury is still out on whether this will effectively take care of some of the spam that appears during nighttime US/European hours, and I'll be checking the registration and spam log stats regularly to see if we're being successful in this effort. Cheers.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

We've now reworked the registration process to take advantage of the forum software's native anti-spam features--started mid last week. This is completely transparent to you all, and based on our logs everything is working. Jury is still out on whether this will effectively take care of some of the spam that appears during nighttime US/European hours, and I'll be checking the registration and spam log stats regularly to see if we're being successful in this effort. Cheers.

 

IMO, jury has decided this is definitely not working. 

 

JMO.  YMMV.

[Wordsgood 526]

What is done by Evernote when we Hide the spam? I see the same "users" post the exact same spam over and over again. Are they not blocked once discovered?

[jefito 5,589]

Nope-- spammers get their 5 posts on the first day, like anyone else. Non-Evernote moderators can only hide individual posts at this time, not block users. We're depending on the 300-post club to be vigilant and remove spam when they see it.

[Wordsgood 526]

Sigh. Okay, I'll keep plugging along as I'm able. Thanks Jefito.

Nope-- spammers get their 5 posts on the first day, like anyone else. Non-Evernote moderators can only hide individual posts at this time, not block users. We're depending on the 300-post club to be vigilant and remove spam when they see it.

[jefito 5,589]

Trust me, it's no fun for me either.

My general (and perhaps mildly OCD) rule is to clear spam first, before posting.

[gbarry 2,658]

I'm still working on this. I'm having a very thorough conversation today about what we can and should be doing internally to resolve the influx of spam with our new moderation structure.

 

We have employees clearing and banning the content after or before you've hidden it, so unless someone slips by us, they should be effectively banned. This still isn't working too well on the side of the world when all the spammers are awake and more of Evernote is asleep. That's changing though, we just need to get the right process down for the evening/night teams to handle.

[gbarry 2,658]

Update on this. We've had our vendor do a pretty intensive audit of spam controls, and a few changes were made. After 48 hours we've seen a significant decrease (about 2/3, if not more) in spam hitting the forums. We've made these sorts of changes before only to eventually have the spam come back, but so far things are looking good. I'm working on getting a few new processes in place for our internal folks, and those should come online in a week. If the spam control changes hold and we get the right mix of employees handling EMEA/APAC hours we should be far better off than we have been. More discussion, less escort service ads, and the current mod powers (which should also allow for multiple posts to be modded at once) should fill in the rest.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

thanks for the hard work. any chance the mod powers can be added to the new content pages, instead of just appearing when you enter each individual forum?

[jbenson2 2,147]

They are back.

Seems as though Baba and his gang are just laughing at whatever you try to do.

[gbarry 2,658]

New content pages? SPGScott let me know that the web beta wasn't open to mod powers, that should be fixed.

 

And yeah, those spam changes lasted oh, about 3 days. Just enough to get to the weekend. I'm at work on it today.

[jefito 5,589]

Yeah, I killed off 10 or so today, too. Don't sigh for me, Moderators...

[spg SCOTT 736]

thanks for the hard work. any chance the mod powers can be added to the new content pages, instead of just appearing when you enter each individual forum?

 

 

New content pages?

I think GM is refferring to when you "View New Content"

i.e. https://discussion.evernote.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=viewNewContent&search_app=forums

[jbenson2 2,147]

I've been knocking down 20+ spams from Baba and his love punks each morning i log on, but I wonder if the 2nd step is needed.

 

#1 - Topic Moderation

Remove Spam

 

#2 - Option to Hide

This option hides the topic, but leaves it in the forum.

 

 

Question: If I removed Baba with step #1,  is step #2 (hide) also needed?

[spg SCOTT 736]

I've been knocking down 20+ spams from Baba and his love punks each morning i log on, but I wonder if the 2nd step is needed.

 

#1 - Topic Moderation

Remove Spam

 

#2 - Option to Hide

This option hides the topic, but leaves it in the forum.

 

 

Question: If I removed Baba with step #1,  is step #2 (hide) also needed?

Aren't they one and the same?

You have to give a reason for removing/hiding the post, before it is completed.

[s2sailor 2,185]

 

You have to give a reason for removing/hiding the post, before it is completed.

 

You actually don't have to enter anything.  I did initially but then decided that the stuff I hide is pretty obvious so I haven't been entering anything in a while.  I haven't been contacted by an employee to change my ways, so I assume it is ok.

[jbenson2 2,147]

I've marked up hundreds of Baba's love posts using both options, but never typed in a reason.

I also have never seen any feedback Evernote.

 

I guess I was just spinning my wheels. I'll pass the baton to someone else.

[spg SCOTT 736]

I tend to put a reason, even if it is just "spam", but that is me. (I thought it was required too )

I am not sure what you mean by the fact that there are two options. Remove spam is hide. They are one and the same.

Just in a topic, it is called "remove spam"

Outside of a topic, when you multi-select, it is "hide"

You still get to the same result.

EDIT: I would go so far as to say that I would like to see a reason being mandatory. Having just removed a duplicate post, how does an admin know what that would be had I not made that clear?

Would that then cause unnecessary questions/confusions, when two words are sufficient?

[gbarry 2,658]

Is everyone who is helping to remove spam able to see multi-moderation--as in, select multiple posts and then mass hide? I'm doing some testing on this today so the conversation is timely.

 

We do check moderation reports--anything that's not baba-esque gets checked out a little bit more closely. But we look more at the content that was moderated, rather than the input reason.

[jefito 5,589]

I certainly use multi-moderation as much as I can. I'd go crazy if I couldn't do that, there were way too many this morning...

 

I usually put "spam" in the reason field, but sometimes I put something extra for entertainment purposes (mine, if no-one else's ). On occasion I use the same mechanism to hide duplicate posts, and I reflect that in my comment so that no-one thinks that I'm removing non-spam content.

[jbenson2 2,147]

I am not sure what you mean by the fact that there are two options. Remove spam is hide. They are one and the same.

 

 

That is why I posted the question.

 

If Option 1 removes the spam, why is there a 2nd option to hide the spam?

 

If the descriptions were reversed, it would make more sense.

First option - hide the spam

Second option - remove the spam

 

I would use the remove option every time and ignore the hide option.

[spg SCOTT 736]

Where are you seeing this second option? I really am not sure what you are seeing that is different to me.

[s2sailor 2,185]

Where are you seeing this second option? I really am not sure what you are seeing that is different to me.

I think jbenson2 may be referring to the same thing that you are in post #59:

 

... Just in a topic, it is called "remove spam" Outside of a topic, when you multi-select, it is "hide" ...

 

Depending on whether you are in forum view or topic view you are shown different options either remove spam or hide, but they probably do the same thing.  It might be less confusing if the same term was used in both views.

[Wordsgood 526]

I stopped entering a reason for the spam I hide. Nearly all of it is from Baba and friends. Seems pointless to even add the word "spam" as a reason.

[s2sailor 2,185]

Suggestion:

 

Other than doing a good deed or fulfilling ones own internal OCD tendencies, there is little motivation for removing spam.  How about, as a thought, each month EN award the user that has taken out the most trash for that month with a one month premium membership, new or added to an existing premium membership?  It might take a bit to set up the metrics for reporting but after that there should be minimal impact to EN and might help spur increased vigilance in removing spam.

[GER_TX 6]

It seems to be the worst on a Friday evening and the weekend after Evernote staff have gone home.

People like GrumpyMonkey pitch in and do some fire fighting.

I also do not use the forum notification feature.

 

That's why other companies have people working on Saturday and Sundays as tickets also add up on the weekend.

Especially when it comes to a password reset in case the system doesn't work, people shouldn't have to wait more than 24 hours at the most.

But this is only my professional opinion.

[jefito 5,589]

Suggestion:

 

Other than doing a good deed or fulfilling ones own internal OCD tendencies, there is little motivation for removing spam.  How about, as a thought, each month EN award the user that has taken out the most trash for that month with a one month premium membership, new or added to an existing premium membership?  It might take a bit to set up the metrics for reporting but after that there should be minimal impact to EN and might help spur increased vigilance in removing spam.

For at least some of us who are here to try to help out other Evernote users, this is not just a good deed or OCD fulfillment (not that I don't cop to a little bit of OCD every now and then); it's really just to make things easier for those other users who visit the forums. That would seem like motivation enough, but maybe I'm just not that good a judge of human motivation. On the other hand, if a contest helps other moderators-by-post-count to help clean out more spam, then sure, I'm for that. It's not like it's all *that* fun to take out the trash...

[s2sailor 2,185]

I think making things easier for your fellow user falls in the "good deed" category :-)

 

Those of us that are already doing this don't need any motivation but I was thinking this "might" help encourage others in the 300 post club to start sweeping away and hopefully minimize the overall burden for everyone.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

I'm happy to help other users, even though I'm migrating away from EN.  Admittedly, I spend less time here, b/c I'm migrating away from EN, since it's clear to me that EN has changed their focus & no longer wants to be my "external brain".  But I have refused to clean the board of spam ever since they removed the features that made this easy for the "moderators" (several months ago, a couple of clicks on my PC or iPad would ban the user (preventing them from further posts) & automatically remove their token five initial posts).  The fact EN removed this task from "moderators" is fine with me...as long as EN provides EN staff to then take up the slack.  But when you handcuff the moderators & still expect want hope they will keep your message board free of spam by spending volunteering a couple of minutes per spammer, then I'm not sure what planet you are living on.  It's very distasteful when I check the board in the early morning hours (I have insomnia) and see all the spam.  But that's pretty much what Evernote signed up for when they changed the moderation involvement.