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(Archived) View missing in 5.1.1


Bradley Chambers

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so... what the hell are reminders anyway, and why are they more important than the actual notes in a program called EverNOTE? I don't use Evernote for reminders, I use outlook tasks. If I didn't have that I would have Mac calendar. What is this rubbish that we are being told we need above all else?

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Yes, please bring this back. I was able to keep track of what had synced that way, too. Doesn't look like you can tell with current list view.

 

Next time I'll read the last page instead of just the first few. Thanks!!

 

At 15 pages, no one can fault you on that.

Be sure to check out the latest build and see if works for you.

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At a quick glance through this thread, it seems that a number of the people upset about the loss of the vetical list view are using Evernote for something it wasn't really designed to do: handling a complex task management system like GTD. In cases like that, what GM is suggesting makes perfect sense. If you are using a program in a non-standard way, especially one that changes as frequently as Evernote, it does behoove you to let the developers know how you use the program. Any program I use frequently that isn't by some huge company, I provide suggestions and feedback to regularly, especially if it's a free program. I tell the developers what I like and what I'd like to see and, what I don't like. The result is that, for a number of programs by small outfits, I actually get consulted about future changes. This takes me less than an hour a month.

I also give feedback to the local cafe I frequent and the small local market where I shop.

Best of luck.

 

great so now "it's because you're using it wrong". The application is for note-taking, and i use it for taking notes. The list, surprisingly, is a list of notes. So, tell me what I'm doing wrong in that then? This thread is turning into a complete farce. My opinion is that reminders are nothing to do with note-taking. It's an additional feature. The core functionality of note taking is still there, but Evernote has made the core purpose of the product significantly more difficult to use for many people. It really is as simple as that, and there is no sensible justification. There might be a technical reason, but to be honest - I don't care about it. Reminders are of no interest to me, and I am sure many others; but it's not even about that - a peripheral feature has been introduced at the detriment of core functionality, and that is just poor. 

 

You're also getting confused about giving feedback. I don't tend to spend an hour talking through the menu with my local cafe, and giving my views on which meals enjoy and wouldn't want them to take off the menu, whilst a huge queue builds behind me of people wanting to do the same. Obviously that's ridiculous and impractical - but that's essentially what's being said here. In a cafe, if something is good, I will say so and tip (in the UK tipping is not expected, and is purely based on merit), and if something is bad I will complain. This thread IS the complaint. So Evernote - my food was cold - what are you going to do about it? Oh it's my fault because I asked for the wrong meal, or because I failed to tell you I really wanted something you've taken off the menu, or now - because i'm eating it wrong. 

 

This thread started as product feedback, but the some of these responses coming out of the woodwork are considerably more annoying than even the list thing is. 

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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

I think you missed the point.  I was saying that I personally don't use it as a todo list.  I wasn't saying that people don't want it.  Anyway dont take things out of context here.  The problem here is that you guys have made a problem for a lot of people by changing the core of your software and it seems like you are saying this change is permanent because of a decision you made to accomodate a new feature.  Sure go and include new features.  Just don't break your core program to accomodate new features.  And you have.  If you can't include new features without breaking a major feature then either work out a way or don't include it.  You're killing off your core.

Missed your post earlier. Note: when you use the term "you guys", I hope that you're not referring to me. I'm not an Evernote employee (I've said this multiple times in this thread already). Please don't take *me* out of context.

 

Further point -- Evernote will be able to tell if they are killing off their core by monitoring usage statistics, as they already do; these will be actual numbers, and not based on a rule of thumb. As usual, we can sit outside the bubble and guess, but they'll have some real data to go on, if they're interested in deriving it and using it, and afterwards, acting on it. 

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Here is how to downgrade (upgrade) to a previous version:

1. Backup your database

2. Go here: http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

3. Download version 5.0.7 (latest version with horizontal view)

4. Profit.

 

To the EN team: please let me know when the horizontal view returns.  I will gladly upgrade then.

 

The reason I prefer the horizontal view is that I frequently work on a small laptop screen with multiple windows open.  My limited screen real estate makes this view much more useful and intuitive.  

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Gotta love how throughout all this Evernote didn't even bother responding at all in here.  Whats the point of these forums if they can't be bothered to get involved?  

 

Has anyone actually downloaded and installed the latest version?  Does it work?  I'd rather hear from someone first hand it's all good before upgrading again and downgrading again.

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so... what the hell are reminders anyway, and why are they more important than the actual notes in a program called EverNOTE? I don't use Evernote for reminders, I use outlook tasks. If I didn't have that I would have Mac calendar. What is this rubbish that we are being told we need above all else?

Reminders were put in because a great many Evernote users asked for date-related features. Reminders are a new note facility; some might even think that they enhance what notes are. You can read more about them here: http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/. Not sure why you'd judge them as "rubbish" without knowing what they are, though.

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Have been trying to make the vertical list mode work for me.

I absolutely hate it.

I was seriously thinking of looking for a new notes app.

Thank you whoever first posted re. upgrading to an earlier version, I will be trying that shortly.

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Or you could do it like that.  Haha!  Nice work.

 

You did forget something though Jack:

 

 

In all seriousness, THIS is one of the reasons why I love this company so much.

 

Kudos to the team:

 

Built with love by:

Ruben Bakker

Gabe Campodonico

Phil Constantinou

Zeesha Currimbhoy

Justin Gareau

Jack Hirsch

Dirk Holtwick

Jason Jones

Phil Libin

Zdzisiek Losvik

Daniel Lu

Josh Mangum

Andrew McGeachie

Carlos Rocafort IV

Matt Sarnoff

Melissa Tsang

Brandon Volbright

Vineet Wadhwa

Mel Walker

Alec Winograd

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I noticed when I installed 5.1.3 that it "updated" my database.  Has anyone successfully downgraded to 5.0.7 with a database that has been "updated" by 5.1.3?  Or was it necessary to use an old database backup?

 

I was able to just fine. I just re-downloaded 5.0.7 from the (here) and signed in with my Evernote username, then it synced to my account downloading all my notes into that version of the program, took only a few minutes (it might take more if you have a significant amount of notes)

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All valid points. Let me ask you this - have you tried out Vertical List View?

 

Are you serious?

 

In anticipating our Horizontal List View fans, we also added the capability of right-clicking the title bars in Vertical List View and giving users the options of adding on filters as needed. To johnmarshall4's point and workflow of using Horizontal List View of "created date, updated date, title, notebook, and tags" -- I've attached a screenshot with those exact parameters to help you visualize what Vertical List View can do. You can also toggle the width of Vertical List View to be expansively wide as you want (and if you try it out, you will see what I mean how it can get very wide).

 

But you have to sacrifice either the sidebar (for many users not an option), some of the information (no time, only dates; truncated titles; only the first tag or two), or the size of the note. It's not so much a matter of function but of screen real estate.

Vertical list view is fine, if you want only to show very little information about the notes but want to see a whole lot of them. I can see a use for this, but who would want to toggle all the sorting options back and forth between the benefits of a vertical view and the simulation of the old horisontal view? So, we can't have the full benefits of the old horizontal view, and we can't have the full benefits of the vertical view either.

 

Functionally speaking, it was very difficult to reconcile Horizontal List View with Reminders because of our Reminders pane (in the attached screenshot, you'll see it listing 2 reminders of California's hidden gems and most surreal places) that would show you your reminders both in an All Notes context and on a per Notebook basis. Please know that we took it under very careful consideration but were unable to come up with a good, timely solution at this point -- all things considered. We may revisit it in the future.

 

I still completely fail to see the issue. Maybe I am dense. If I go in extended card view, the Reminders pane stretches the entire window too - it's incredibly ugly, yes, but if you're willing to do it here, why not in a horizontal list view? You even added a toggle to collapse the reminders pane, if there are too many reminders (I figure that is what you mean) - besides, would that not be a problem in other views as well if showing All Notes? I do not get it. Carve it out in cardboard for me, please?

 

What exactly about Horizontal List View do you find the most useful that can't be fulfilled in Vertical List View? I am curious to hear people's workflows, aside from johnmarshall4 of using created date, updated date, title, notebook and tags.

 

I use list view for certain of my workflows where I do a lot of note merging. On the Mac client, the notes must be listed in the order, you want them to be merged. This is sometimes not as easy to achieve as you would think - especially not if many of your notes have the same creation date, title, tags and so on. Hence, I use both title, creation date and time, update date and time, tags, sync status and note size as sorting factors. I can do this still, for sure, but it doesn't leave me much room to see my note (at least, it's awkward), even if I am running full screen on a fairly large monitor.

Another gripe I have with the new list view is that it's harder to read than before (what do you have against black on white?). The alternating colors are barely distinguishable and the font is not as efficient as the old one.

It does not exactly help that I am no immediate fan of the Reminders feature - possibly because I don't understand the point of it yet. But that's probably for another thread.

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I am one of the ones that loves the new vertical view and requested it, however I never dreamed it meant users who preferred horizontal view would have to lose that, and wish they hadn't. BTW, I find some of the posts in this forum sort of half-directing blame at complaining users for not knowing the road map and not speaking up to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen on a forum :).

Hi. That would be me you are talking about? If so, I don't blame anyone for anything. In fact, I did speak up for horizontallers and the view still went away. It's not anyone's fault. It was a design decision that was probably made with a lot more factors in mind than we have at hand, and maybe if I had been in the meetings, I would have agreed. Who knows? At any rate, I encourage users to speak up any time, because the developers need to hear from you.

I simply said that if you care about something enough that you would miss it if it were gone, then let someone know before it is gone. This goes for people and apps. Even if you communicate and they know, it might not change the end result, but at least they will know your thoughts and consider them. Is that so bizarre?

In fact, I just got a five year anniversary email from Evernote asking for feedback about how the service has affected me. Evernote is reaching out because it wants to know your thoughts. Is that so bizarre?

Aside fr

Don't wait five years, though, to share your thoughts with people. Send an email and let the developers of all your favorite apps know what you like/dislike. It only takes a few minutes and could make a big difference. That's my advice. If it seems too bizarre, then feel free to disregard it :)

 

sorry but that's the most idiotic thing i've ever heard. You are seriously suggesting that for every application we use, we should ensure that we let the author know every feature we would not like to be removed in future? Is that actually what you are saying? Aside from that being completely impractical and just entirely completely the wrong mindset let alone approach, often users won't know how much they have come to rely on something until it's gone. Basic functionality is assumed to be a core pillar of a product. If you change something quite fundamental that affects so many users, and the whole usability of the product, to the point where users are downgrading, talking about stopping using the product entirely you MUST rethink. I don't think most of the affected users ever thought something like this would change, because authors just don't do this type of thing. It isn't something a user might expect to happen. Someone needs to go and read the usability hall of shame, before they end up on it. 

 

I don't think it is idiotic to provide occasional feedback to developers. In fact, I think it is better for me to provide feedback before something unpleasant happens rather than after it does. My litmus test is: if I would miss it if it was gone, I try to mention how important it is to me. Is that really so idiotic? I don't have strong feelings about all kinds of features, including the horizontal list view, so I don't talk much about those. There are other features I am quite opinionated about, and I make sure the developers know I care about them. 

 

The developers might have a different opinion than me, and decide to remove or change something, but at least they know. In the case of the horizontal list view, I spoke out against removing it long ago when the idea of a vertical list view was first floated. Perhaps, if other horizontallers had spoken up earlier, then this would not have happened. I don't know, but not providing feedback while expecting developers (not just at Evernote, but anywhere) to know how much you like a feature will probably result in more unpleasant surprises in the future. 

 

Maybe you have a couple hundred applications / features that you would miss if they were gone, like Vile who posted above you. If so, then my advice is impractical. In that case, please feel free to disregard it. You can also change the settings in your account to "ignore" my posts if you find them so annoying. 

 

As I said before, in this thread and others, I hope everyone will continue to provide feedback whenever and however they can. I also agree that the horizontal view ought to be in the app as well, even though I don't plan on using it, and much prefer the vertical one. In my opinion, having several options to fit different use cases is a good thing. 

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Today I updated to 5.1.3 Evernote from 5.0.1 and have discovered to my dismay that the top notes list view is gone: which is by far the one I always use.

 

Please, I want my list back and agree on what the rest of the people are saying about this annoyance.

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Glad I saw this before upgrading although it sounds more like a down grade.

Having to monitor a user forum to make sure one votes to keep the vendor from removing key features is inefficient and unproductive of the first order. Evernote is supposed to make us more productive, not less.

This is second feature that's been removed recently, negatively impacting my productivity and previous affection for Evernote - the other being the ability to Hide Unassigned Tags in the side bar.

Add me to the lists of users who

- dearly love horizontal lists,

- don't need reminders very much or at all

- are considering canceling premium membership

- are unhappy and will consider switching to an alternative

- find the concept of having to monitor a forum to prevent feature destruction to be unproductive, maddening and inane

Hi. You don't have to monitor the user forums if you don't want to. However, the Evernote app developers are not mind readers, and they might make decisions that will adversely affect your workflow, so if the app (or a particular set of features) matters to you, I recommend speaking up about it. It's only a recommendation by me (not the Evernote staff), and you are free to ignore it.

In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

I watch the forum of another company that is critical for my workflow, and I have posted scathingly insightful (in my humble opinion!) reviews of their hobbled and ultimately infuriating service, but a year later, nothing more than a recommendation to re-upload about 100 GB of data again. Ultimately, the recommendation would be an ill-advised wild goose chase, because buried in the service description is a note that they have effectively hobbled the service, so no amount of uploading will fix that. It's too bad, but I still monitor the thread and the forum on occasion. It takes about 10 minutes of my year -- it's pretty dead there nowadays with new users who pop in when they stumble across the gaping (but hidden) hole in the feature, and those of us who have complained in the past and still have the thread set to alert us by email. Still, I think it's worth it for the opportunity to lodge my opinion/criticism. Their lack of knowledge about their own service and lack of attempts to communicate with users demonstrate (to my eyes, at least) their total disinterest in our opinions. Frankly, I'm not even sure why the forums are there.

Evernote (a quasi competitor to this particular company) is markedly better. Just look through this thread and you'll find the developers right here talking to you. At least the developers care enough to communicate and discuss features. If you choose not to take advantage of it, that is certainly your right, and I get it, but you'll miss an opportunity to influence the app in a way that might preserve or improve your workflow.

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Hi all, I'm a long-time premium user and I too was shocked to find such a
drastic UI change pushed onto the community without more warning, input, or
user verification. Having said that, there are a few fixes for this
problem.

First, it is easy to go back to 5.0.7. Uninstall your current version,
download the old one at http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/, and
you're back to the comfortable old version in less than 5 minutes. I have
done this and I'm going to wait until this storm has passed.

Second, there is a reasonable view option with 5.1.x: click on any note in
the list view to bring up a full window of that note. When you're done,
close it. Have as many notes open at once as you want. This gives us fully

configurable views of notes, AND a long list.

As I said, I'm going back to the old version, because I don't need a long
list, and it absolutely is a waste of real estate.


But I include the above so we don't all complain as though the world has
ended, because in fact it has not. Evernote 5.1.1 still provides full
screen access to notes and a long list of notes.

Now Evernote - when are you going to accept this user feedback and 

bring us a configurable screen so we can all set it like we want to?

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Gotta love how throughout all this Evernote didn't even bother responding at all in here.  Whats the point of these forums if they can't be bothered to get involved?  

 

Has anyone actually downloaded and installed the latest version?  Does it work?  I'd rather hear from someone first hand it's all good before upgrading again and downgrading again.

 

Ozmark,

That simply isn't the case.  Jack and others did respond.  You can always tell by the colored Evernote logo under their avatar.

I realize everyone has different expectations of what customer service should be, but as you'll see from my previous post....Evernote isn't made by thousands of people working in a vacuum.  There were no promises given one way or another, but it's obvious now that the team was busy doing work.

 

I have installed the latest version and I think they covered all the bases.  I'll share some screens. 

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You don't need to spend ages trawling through the forums to see what's upcoming -- the betas generally give you that kind of information, and a chance to feed back on it early in the process (doesn't mean that Evernote will always heed it). You can either hop on the beta train (though some folks understandably don't want to be beta testers, or even use new releases right away), or subscribe to the beta announcement topic threads as they pop up -- they're usually easy to find, as they are pinned to the top of the forum. Not sure that email blasts for every new feature/design change would be the best way to elicit feedback, and I'm sure that some folks would have problems with the idea that Evernote is looking through its user base to find people who are using particular Evernote clients so that they can send them emails for that purpose. Flip side is that I'm not blaming anyone who didn't catch the question in the first place; it's that there may be easier ways to follow new development directions than spending ages in the forums.

 

There was no public beta to give feedback to. This development came out of the blue. Even for those of us who keep up on the forums.

 

Where I disagree with you about not speaking up is that you have to speak up. Sorry, but you need to be doing this for every app that you care about, even if you only care about it a little bit. Bookmark the relevant forum sites and pop in to follow things every once in a while (most of the forums I visit are dead quiet, so this isn't as difficult as it sounds). Make your use case known to the developers, get to know them (a couple of emails telling them how much you like their app and what you like about it). Obviously, you shouldn't waste your time (in my opinion) with some massive products like Word or PowerPoint, because you are unlikely to get through to anyone of relevance. But, Evernote's developers are relatively easy to contact -- just post on the forums!

 

I agree about speaking up, and you know I do speak up. But I find this a little condescending, Grumps. Speaking up is what we're doing right here in this thread, innit? When and where would he - or anyone else - have spoken up about this issue before it became apparent? There was no beta, the aforementioned forum post did not suggest this was going to happen ...

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Top%20List%20View.png

 

 

Can I just say how much I dig the new Skitch!  Just started playing with it today.  Anyway, I know it's a large screenshot, but there was a lot of ground to cover.

 

  • You can sort the list by clicking on any column.
  • Right click allows you to show and hide columns.  The only ones I'm not showing are Source URL and Author.
  • All of the Reminders are at the top and simply scroll away as you move through the list.
  • You can drag and resize the columns as you see fit.
  • As you increase or decrease the width of the date columns, the data adjusts accordingly.  Notice the difference.

All in all, I think this is pretty solid.  If there is anything I would add, it might be a separate column for Reminders.  So when you're deep in a list of notes, you could quickly see where you've set Reminders and what the dates are.  For notes without a date, simply place the clock icon.

 

But what do you all think? 

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There was no public beta to give feedback to. This development came out of the blue. Even for those of us who keep up on the forums.

If that's the case (I don't follow the Mac products very closely), then I'll take at least that some of that back. I can certainly see while you Mac folks feel blind-sided by this change. I've been seeing reminders in the Android betas for the last two or three revs, though. Even so, I think that it's better to be involved than not -- I'm guessing that there's a little bit of thought going into some redesign behind the scenes right now as a result of some very recent "engagement".
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Evernote team is notorious for coming up with bad design ideas. So now Evernote itself goes on my list of "Never to be updated" applications after Skitch. :(

(I'm keeping a newer copy on the machine that I rarely use, to check up on the updates, but so far things are not any better.)

 

@GrumpyMonkey I'm using about 200 different applications. Are you suggesting that I must go to every single vendor forum and keep track of what's going on there? Really, I have lots of far more important things to do. 

Don't forget that programs are just a tools (like hammer or screwdriver) that help us to do what we need to do. There is no program that has a value of its own.

Should I keep up with each vendor and _preventively_ post "Please don't break the good tool you've created"? Moreover, should I try to imagine every possible way of ruining it and post "don't do this" or "don't do that"?! That's ridiculous!

 

I would not suggest to developers what to do, just note that this is not first time when something is wrong with your design. Maybe you should hold designer responsible once in a while?

+1

 

I had just upgraded to v5 three weeks ago because of all the problems with the original half dozen versions of v5.  Now another downgrade to recover from the latest "update".  There could at least have been enough transparency to tell us that with the new features, came elimination of an existing one so we could skip the "upgrade".

 

The core technology of EN is so good, but the UI designers are a disaster.  Horizontal displays had to be sacrificed for Reminders?  Really?  That's the extent of the creativity in the design staff?  You can't have both and a good UI?  Chew gum and walk?

 

And what product manager could possibly think that a note posted on a forum is a good way to survey the entire user community with regard to the choice of Reminders or Horizontal displays?  Like many, I only come here when I've got a problem, not as part of my daily routine.

 

Back to 5.07 and I swear I'm never being suckered into another update. 

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great so now "it's because you're using it wrong".

Please do not ascribe things to me that I never said. I referred to people who used the program in a way that it wasn't designed to be used. There was no judgement on right or wrong. Those people have the most to benefit by giving feedback to the developers. It's fairly obvious the developers didn't view this particular view as a core feature. Maybe if they had known how many users did, they might have made different choices. Or maybe not.

And don't be silly. I don't spend an hour giving feedback at a cafe while a queue builds up behind me. I wait until the owner has a minute, exchange greetings and mention something if I have something to mention. Just like with software developers, someone who knows I appreciate their work is more likely to listen to me when I have an issue. When I have a problem with a piece of software, I drop a quick line. What does that take, two minutes? Occasionally more if it's something really important. In both cases, I get better service, learn interesting things, make a few friends and generally improve the quality of my life.

Should you prefer to assume that everyone views things the way you do or knows what you want without asking, I think you will continue to be disappointed.

Best of luck.

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Well I am a paid premium customer and I complained and complained when v5 came out because it lost the customisable toolbar and wasted space with a sidebar which included options which were of no interest... anyway I stayed with 3.3.0 for MAC and still have all my features... from time to time I check the status of 5.x hoping its UI would improve as I would love to have the improved search it offers only to discover that they have now taken away the single best way of displaying data [if you have lots - in my case 7.5K notes] for reminders? reminders? well OK I guess this is Evernote business services driving things but it is hard not to think that Evernote are in processing of ditching their longterm users 

 

so for version 5 users please bring back horizontal view and for ver 3 holdouts like me please allow some configuration in future versions so we can use EN as we wish rather than how you imagine your business users will want to use it... but it isn't going to happen

 

I know EN is a very big product with a huge user base and also that it is their [the EN team] product but hubris will do for everyone eventually no matter how big and established - and please if you are a EN employer or 'evangelist' don't tell me I can customise v5 to my liking, I tried, I can't

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Adding to the resounding chorus:  Please bring back horizontal view.  The heart and soul, or killer app, if you will, of Evernote is (was) easy, intuitive organization.  With the horizontal view, I got that.  With the vertical view, I don't.

 

Yes, I can sort by date or notebook or whatever in vertical view, but this requires extra clicks that get in the way of my workflow and distract my train of thought.  The nice, clean, compact screen of Evernote was another great feature, but now I have to stretch it out across my whole monitor to fit in the sidebar, vertical view, and enough note space to be useful.  Horizontal view is also much more visually appealing and intuitive; it showed notebook hierarchies and relationships.

 

Re: Reminders, I don't see why they couldn't be integrated into horizontal view.  Maybe put them into the toolbar or sidebar.  Also, IMHO Reminders aren't of much use without the ability to specify what it is they're reminding me of.  All I can see how to do is associate a Reminder with a Notebook, but no way to put add any additional information.

 

I realize consumers tend to be quick with wrath and slow with praise, so I'll also (ever)note that this is in general a great product.  Please restore it to its former glory!

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Please, Please, Please bring back the horizontal list view. I need a lot of space when I am writing long notes. With the horizontal list I can restrict the list to just a few items and have a BIG space for writing.

 

I also only visit this forum when I am having a problem and so I missed the request for input on the horizontal list. I won't be using reminders in Evernote - I have plenty of other options for reminders. But Evernote is my ONLY option for note taking.

 

I'm going back to version 5.0.7.

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In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

Most people are here because we are consumers of a tool, not fanboys of app celebrities.  We don't have time to constantly monitor and post on 50 program forums.  You are clearly quite devoted to Evernote, and quite an expert.  For the vast majority of Evernote users, however, we just want a useful tool, and we will be quick to find replacements if our tool is broken.  Don't blame the customer.

 

Incidentally, Microsoft just pulled a similar move in forcing an unwanted UI change on consumers, and they have since backtracked.  Lesson here?

 

Evernote developers: I appreciate all that you do and that you are only trying to make as good a product as possible.  You have overwhelmingly succeeded, but clearly you have made a mistake here.  Which is fine, we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them.  Could we please get some feedback though on whether/when you plan to fix it?

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megsaint brought up an important point. As far as how the program is designed, it is fairly flexible (by design), but we often shoehorn it into our own use cases, and that is why communication is so crucial.

I am pretty sure I am in many ways an edge case and not very representative in my use, so some UI changes impact me dramatically, but seem to affect hardly anyone else.

Combining joined and personal notebooks while removing note counts (and not combining them while removing note counts in iOS), for example, caused me considerable consternation, and I had to radically change how I used my account. Ironically, I had joined with others and asked for the change!

But, I don't think I explained my use case well. The developers are not mind readers, and it helps us and them to give feedback whenever we can. The more detail you give about the stuff that matters to you, the better.

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I add my voice to those requesting user choice in whether the list view is horizontal or vertical. The vertical view, for my use, is an immense waste of real estate. I don't need a long list of notes to be always showing, most of which are not relevant to the current note, and which a) reduce real estate for the current note, and B) only show a few list headings. 

 

I'm not sure who dreamed this display up in what is otherwise and excellent product. I'm also not sure why Evernote chose to make list display choices non-configurable. Are notifications really a good excuse for this? My sense is that the developers all sit at desks with 20 inch displays, and are not in tune with many (maybe most) users who are using 13" displays on macbooks.

 

Come on, evernote team, this is a serious design error. Don't defend this when you know it's wrong - give us back the views that we need. 

 

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I just wanted to add my voice to those who've already requested the return of horizontal list view.

 

I haven't previously had to use evernote in fullscreen mode and now even in full screen mode it some of the information in the list is being truncated and I only have two columns visible.  And it makes me feel all cramped when I'm writing the note in the space that's left, crushed up against the side of the screen.

 

Personally I think that my unwillingness to resize windows is in part due to how difficult it is to resize windows on the mac compared to Windows.  I rarely maximise app windows on my mac.

 

Great product though.  Keep up the good work. 

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For those of you needing the Horizontal List View for TSW, I recommend using the List View and selecting the appropriate columns (Created, Title, and Tags), expanding the left pane, and reducing the right pane.

 

I was a bit frustrated when I noticed that the Horizontal List View was gone, but the List View works just as well (albeit not as gracefully).  I keep more than my to-dos on EN, so I find myself switching between List View and Snippet View regularly.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

 

When I try to select columns to view, the options presented to me are Title, Dates, Source, and Size. Where are you finding a Tag option?

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I used the horizontal list view exclusively as I use my laptop with Evernote taking up half the screen and the other apps I'm using on the other half. The vertical list view is comically unusable like this and also makes the main note window too thin and narrow.

 

That is, vertical list view is designed for people with very large screens or who use over 75% of the width of their screen for Evernote. I'm not one of these people :(

 

Please bring back the horizontal list view.

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Good grief, this is a long thread...

 

I don't have much new to add, but still want to make my thoughts known.  I liked the horizontal view and am sad/frustrated that it's gone.  It's more of a screen real estate thing for me.  I'm on a 13" MacBook Pro, and like to have as much screen space as possible for composing/viewing notes.  While it's not a horrible compromise to have to reduce the new vertical view to its smallest possible width, and I'll take it for a spin and see how I like it, I'd still like to have those horizontal inches back for note space instead of list space.

 

On a related note, I was just reading an EN blog post containing notebook usage tips, and the very first sentence opens with, "We don’t tell our users how to organize their notes in Evernote as everyone works differently."  I find it a little strange that letting users choose how to organize their notes is apparently a high priority, but when it comes to how the UI is laid out, we're not given that level of freedom.  Why not let users determine where all of the UI pieces fall?  Let me drag the note pane to the far left.  Let me drag the list from side to top (or bottom).  Let me make the sidebar a bottom bar.  How difficult would that be?  Just give me a mode that lets me drag and drop the pieces where I want them, and then lock them into place to prevent accidental changes.  I use other software that has that ability, and really appreciate the flexibility.  I'm sure that such an approach would make some UX people cringe, but there's a part of me that feels very strongly that some elements of interface layout really are best left to the user, not the developer, especially when a tool has so many possible views and panels and such.  Who knows how any user works the most efficiently with a tool better than the user?

 

What I loved about Evernote when I first found it was its openness and flexibility.  Over time, though, it feels like some of that flexibility has been removed as new features have been added.  As of this writing, I don't feel that I'll ever use the reminders feature, but the addition of that feature has made the UI layout less flexible.  Sure, my data is still my data, but it feels less and less like my tool is my tool.

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You don't need to spend ages trawling through the forums to see what's upcoming -- the betas generally give you that kind of information, and a chance to feed back on it early in the process (doesn't mean that Evernote will always heed it). You can either hop on the beta train (though some folks understandably don't want to be beta testers, or even use new releases right away), or subscribe to the beta announcement topic threads as they pop up -- they're usually easy to find, as they are pinned to the top of the forum. Not sure that email blasts for every new feature/design change would be the best way to elicit feedback, and I'm sure that some folks would have problems with the idea that Evernote is looking through its user base to find people who are using particular Evernote clients so that they can send them emails for that purpose. Flip side is that I'm not blaming anyone who didn't catch the question in the first place; it's that there may be easier ways to follow new development directions than spending ages in the forums.

There was no public beta to give feedback to. This development came out of the blue. Even for those of us who keep up on the forums.

>>Where I disagree with you about not speaking up is that you have to speak up. Sorry, but you need to be doing this for every app that you care about, even if you only care about it a little bit. Bookmark the relevant forum sites and pop in to follow things every once in a while (most of the forums I visit are dead quiet, so this isn't as difficult as it sounds). Make your use case known to the developers, get to know them (a couple of emails telling them how much you like their app and what you like about it). Obviously, you shouldn't waste your time (in my opinion) with some massive products like Word or PowerPoint, because you are unlikely to get through to anyone of relevance. But, Evernote's developers are relatively easy to contact -- just post on the forums!

I agree about speaking up, and you know I do speak up. But I find this a little condescending, Grumps. Speaking up is what we're doing right here in this thread, innit? When and where would he - or anyone else - have spoken up about this issue before it became apparent? There was no beta, the aforementioned forum post did not suggest this was going to happen ...

Not meant to be condescending at all. I thanked them for posting and encouraged everyone to post more. My advice is general advice for everyone: if you like something enough that you would miss it if it were gone (this goes for loved ones, loved apps, loved products) then speak up before it is gone. Be proactive and spend a minute to write and say "Love the app, especially horizontal view, incremental search, and gray on gray text. Thanks for all the hard work!" Do this for all your favorite apps.

The Developers Listen

Evernote developers listen. I don't see eye to eye with some of them on a lot of things (all three of those items above are ones I don't like much), but I know they all at least read what we say and consider our input. Naturally, just as there are some developers who think one way (dlu advocates for the horizontal view http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423) and others who think another way (jackolicious decided on the vertical over the horizontal), there are users in different camps.

I Want More Options

Where am I? I say give us a streamlined and minimalistic interface (one of my favorites is notational velocity) as the default, with as many options as possible to customize our experience. There is no reason in the world why a business professional ought to have to use the same interface as a schoolchild or a researcher at a university. The use cases are very different, and people like to have choice, even if they don't use it.

The Bell Tolls for You!

Of course Evernote didn't say they were going to get rid of horizontal view! But, they have a long history of whittling down features (in recent years we have lost font control in titles and the center pane, the customizable toolbar, editable saved searches (we just got them back!), black on white text, etc., etc.). When the bell tolls for one feature, it tolls for them all! This is why I spoke up even for the horizontallers, even when there was (not yet) any hint that they would be lost to us; I don't want any more features lost, and I want more app parity. Every update carries with it the potential for loss, and I assume that for everything added, one or two things will go. Sometimes this is for the good (I didn't miss the favorites bar when it went away), and sometimes it isn't (I "miss" the ability to turn off incremental search on Windows -- we've never gotten this option on the Mac, and every beachball is a colorful reminder of what I miss out on by using a Mac). 

I know my constant nagging about this or that feature, especially when it means they have to keep around something that doesn't fit so well into their current direction with the app, can be a pain for the developers sometimes, but I think someone ought to play devil's advocate, because as comforting as a design philosophy can be, it inevitably writes out other possibilities for the app, and it is worth pausing a bit to discuss it, even if we may not agree.

 

My post was simply meant to encourage more people to join in speaking up for features if they care about them. That's all. I wouldn't mind people dropping into the forums and speaking more eloquently than I can for the argument not to trim all of the fat from an app, though! In my opinion, a little fat can be a good thing, and there is a nice kobe beef between a slab of gristle and a slab of fat. 

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I want the horizontal list view back please. Like many others, I thought I had set something incorrectly by accident, then I thought it was a bug. I use 2 monitors, and like someone above the second one is a widescreen rotated 90 degrees, dedicated mostly to Evernote, with the list above, the sidebar, and the note at bottom. I am quite p**d that this view was stolen from me.

Evernote gets the trophy (previously Adobe) for the software company that most p**s off its customers by making sneaky UI changes.  Yeah, yeah - "We discussed it in the forum..."

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I add my voice to those requesting user choice in whether the list view is horizontal or vertical. The vertical view, for my use, is an immense waste of real estate. I don't need a long list of notes to be always showing, most of which are not relevant to the current note, and which a) reduce real estate for the current note, and B) only show a few list headings. 

 

I'm not sure who dreamed this display up in what is otherwise and excellent product. I'm also not sure why Evernote chose to make list display choices non-configurable. Are notifications really a good excuse for this? My sense is that the developers all sit at desks with 20 inch displays, and are not in tune with many (maybe most) users who are using 13" displays on macbooks.

 

Come on, evernote team, this is a serious design error. Don't defend this when you know it's wrong - give us back the views that we need. 

 

Hi. About the vertical list view, I was one of the many people who have been asking for it, and it is pretty much exactly what I wanted, so I wouldn't say it is poorly designed. The list view is, in fact, configurable. See my post here for screenshots (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106). I think it could be clearer how this is accomplished, and I have made my own amateur suggestions along those lines, but that is perhaps something we will see in future iterations. 

 

By the way, on my 11" MBA it looks great. That is my use case, though. Yours might well be totally different, and that is why I also agree that we need a horizontal list view. In fact, I'd also like to see a Snippet view like the one on the iPad that is more configurable, and more categories.

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The new 'List view' looks more like a skinny 'Snippet view'.  Unless I'm missing something, I may have to go back to the other version. I can't see my cool tags and such. 

 

Right click on the column titles and you can choose which columns show up.

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Here is how to downgrade (upgrade) to a previous version:

1. Backup your database

2. Go here: http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

3. Download version 5.0.7 (latest version with horizontal view)

4. Profit.

 

To the EN team: please let me know when the horizontal view returns.  I will gladly upgrade then.

 

The reason I prefer the horizontal view is that I frequently work on a small laptop screen with multiple windows open.  My limited screen real estate makes this view much more useful and intuitive.  

 

I downloaded and installed the "older" version (5.0.7) as you suggested. Works great.

 

Even when someone's climb to the top of the pack is based on merit, they're still a target. Appreciate all the EN folks have done to give us a good product. I'll keep using this version until they're able to sort things out.

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If you are using a program in a non-standard way, especially one that changes as frequently as Evernote, it does behoove you to let the developers know how you use the program.

 

I knew it was their fault somehow!  They were using it in a non-standard way!  (shakes head in disbelief that you are serious)

 

BTW, I like to use EN to record take pictures of orgies on my cell phone and quickly add notes, so the "take a pic and add a note to it" is an important feature to me.  Development team, please hereby take notice, I am using your application in a non-standard way and don't want to lose the ability to take orgy pics and attach notes to them.

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For those of you needing the Horizontal List View for TSW, I recommend using the List View and selecting the appropriate columns (Created, Title, and Tags), expanding the left pane, and reducing the right pane.

 

I was a bit frustrated when I noticed that the Horizontal List View was gone, but the List View works just as well (albeit not as gracefully).  I keep more than my to-dos on EN, so I find myself switching between List View and Snippet View regularly.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

 

When I try to select columns to view, the options presented to me are Title, Dates, Source, and Size. Where are you finding a Tag option?

 

Switch to the List View, then right-click on one of the column headers.  You'll see the option to display or hide the columns Author, Created, Notebook, Size, Source URL, Sync Status, Tags, Title, and Updated.

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If you are using a program in a non-standard way, especially one that changes as frequently as Evernote, it does behoove you to let the developers know how you use the program.

 

I knew it was their fault somehow!  They were using it in a non-standard way!  (shakes head in disbelief that you are serious)

 

BTW, I like to use EN to record take pictures of orgies on my cell phone and quickly add notes, so the "take a pic and add a note to it" is an important feature to me.  Development team, please hereby take notice, I am using your application in a non-standard way and don't want to lose the ability to take orgy pics and attach notes to them.

 

As megsaint and I already explained, this isn't a blame the user statement. I use Evernote in a non-standard way as well. A lot of us have use cases for the app that the developers simply couldn't imagine, because they use it differently than we do. Here is where the forums, support tickets, and feedback come in handy.

 

If you tell them how you use it (it appears you already have with your example of a photo+note, and I think that fits well within the current parameters of the app), it will provide them with the data they need in designing the next iteration.

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The new 'List view' looks more like a skinny 'Snippet view'.  Unless I'm missing something, I may have to go back to the other version. I can't see my cool tags and such. 

 

Right click on the column titles and you can choose which columns show up.

Right on. I'll give it a try after checking out an older version of Evernote, (...which I'm synching up right now). #gottaloveoldskool

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I use Evernote in a non-standard way as well. A lot of us have use cases for the app that the developers simply couldn't imagine, because they use it differently than we do. Here is where the forums, support tickets, and feedback come in handy.

 

If you tell them how you use it (it appears you already have with your example of a photo+note, and I think that fits well within the current parameters of the app), it will provide them with the data they need in designing the next iteration.

I would use the phrase "use Evernote in a way it wasn't designed to be used" rather than "use Evernote in a non-standard way". Either way, this is not a "blame the user" statement, it's just a recognition that designers' intent isn't always apparent, and sometimes users will do things that designers don't intend. Sometimes the designers will adapt to what users want to do, but they can only do that if users make their intentions and usages known to them. This forum is a good way to do that, as GM and megsaint point out.

 

@ZZZ: the "taking pictures of orgies" analogy was cute, I guess, but was a pretty weak argument against the "non-standard use" (or whatever) line. This discussion is all about the design of the UI, not what content you put into Evernote.

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All valid points. Let me ask you this - have you tried out Vertical List View?

 

In anticipating our Horizontal List View fans, we also added the capability of right-clicking the title bars in Vertical List View and giving users the options of adding on filters as needed. To johnmarshall4's point and workflow of using Horizontal List View of "created date, updated date, title, notebook, and tags" -- I've attached a screenshot with those exact parameters to help you visualize what Vertical List View can do. You can also toggle the width of Vertical List View to be expansively wide as you want (and if you try it out, you will see what I mean how it can get very wide).

 

Functionally speaking, it was very difficult to reconcile Horizontal List View with Reminders because of our Reminders pane (in the attached screenshot, you'll see it listing 2 reminders of California's hidden gems and most surreal places) that would show you your reminders both in an All Notes context and on a per Notebook basis. Please know that we took it under very careful consideration but were unable to come up with a good, timely solution at this point -- all things considered. We may revisit it in the future.

 

We try our best to accomodate all of our users and their needs, and we do read and listen to user feedback that is posted on the forums  :) 

 

What exactly about Horizontal List View do you find the most useful that can't be fulfilled in Vertical List View? I am curious to hear people's workflows, aside from johnmarshall4 of using created date, updated date, title, notebook and tags.

 

Thanks for your explanations. I, as many have mentioned an am Evernote Premium user and only come to the forums when something like *this* happens. The software I'm using sudden doesn't work the way that I've loved it forever. I was ecstatic about the reminders feature because I was actually getting ready to try and build a service that would email me reminders based on tags. Now it's built into the software, however I can't express how disappointed I was in the loss of the horizontal view.

 

My workflow: I store EVERYTHING in Evernote, however one of my primary uses is my task management is done through Evernote. I have many saved searches in my sidebar that allows me to get different views of various data sets. In the list view, I view titles, many times rather long ones regarding an action that needs to be taken. I then use a set of MANY tags. I sometimes sort by Updated time but most the time I sort by Tags. I'll also want to see various in-depth information by clicking on one of my items. By adjusting the tags, titles and checkboxes I'm able to manage everything I do and it jumps notes into the various saved searches. I generally have the Evernote window using about half of my monitor as I'm also using web browsers or programming at the same time and using Evernote for references of what to do, etc.

 

What used to be a rather compact window is now very wide taking up almost my whole screen.

 

Here's an example of the new view. And this is the bare minimum useable state in list view.

evernote_example.png

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Yikes! I really don't like the vertical layout for list view. So many of my notes have photos, drawings, etc, and the vertical format is terrible for them.

 

Also, if you are a heavy user with multiple notebooks, the vertical layout really truncates the information that is displayed.

 

Now the layout is very text heavy, with little white space. It is much harder to read.

 

Please, please give us back the horizontal display for List view!

 

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I use Evernote in a non-standard way as well. A lot of us have use cases for the app that the developers simply couldn't imagine, because they use it differently than we do. Here is where the forums, support tickets, and feedback come in handy.

 

If you tell them how you use it (it appears you already have with your example of a photo+note, and I think that fits well within the current parameters of the app), it will provide them with the data they need in designing the next iteration.

I would use the phrase "use Evernote in a way it wasn't designed to be used" rather than "use Evernote in a non-standard way". Either way, this is not a "blame the user" statement, it's just a recognition that designers' intent isn't always apparent, and sometimes users will do things that designers don't intend. Sometimes the designers will adapt to what users want to do, but they can only do that if users make their intentions and usages known to them. This forum is a good way to do that, as GM and megsaint point out.

 

@ZZZ: the "taking pictures of orgies" analogy was cute, I guess, but was a pretty weak argument against the "non-standard use" (or whatever) line. This discussion is all about the design of the UI, not what content you put into Evernote.

 

Or, "I use Evernote in a way that the developers may not have considered." At any rate, I am imagine that the developers have a few mainstream use cases in mind when they make changes. I can almost guarantee that most of the time I won't fall within their gaze, and I accept that changes will often adversely affect me, but this time I am pleased that the change was perfect for my use case. 

 

Maybe they will add in the horizontal list view in the future. I don't know. For now, I recommend trying to adapt to the app as it is. You can hide the Sidebar (View > Hide Sidebar) and you can make all sorts of adjustments to the list view that will at least optimize the space with the categories you use the most (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106). If you miss the Sidebar, the it might help to use shortcuts: Command + Option + 2 will take you to the Notebook screen and Command + Option + 3 will take you to the Tag screen. 

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Are you guys serious?  We're talking about a basic horizontal list view that existed, that a lot of users clearly used, and now it got taken away from them.  And you guys are actually bringing in arguments about using "using Evernote in a way it wasn't designed to be used" and "use Evernote in a non-standard way"?!  They were using it the way it was designed to be used, they were using one of its features, and a very basic one at that.

 

When a user is upset that a feature that was extremely important to them was removed, responding with these types of answers only infuriates them more.

 

All these guys/gals is needed is "we are listening, we were under the impression that users didn't use this view, we'll let development know that a lot of users desperately want it back".  Not "you're using it wrong" or "why didn't you tell us" or "you're using it in a non-standard way".

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Plus, why the view selector menu is placed in such a way as to move and relocate inside each view is confusing. The view menu should be static.

 

I noticed that too, that also needs to be fixed.

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Glad I saw this before upgrading although it sounds more like a down grade.

Having to monitor a user forum to make sure one votes to keep the vendor from removing key features is inefficient and unproductive of the first order. Evernote is supposed to make us more productive, not less.

This is second feature that's been removed recently, negatively impacting my productivity and previous affection for Evernote - the other being the ability to Hide Unassigned Tags in the side bar.

Add me to the lists of users who

- dearly love horizontal lists,

- don't need reminders very much or at all

- are considering canceling premium membership

- are unhappy and will consider switching to an alternative

- find the concept of having to monitor a forum to prevent feature destruction to be unproductive, maddening and inane

Hi. You don't have to monitor the user forums if you don't want to. However, the Evernote app developers are not mind readers, and they might make decisions that will adversely affect your workflow, so if the app (or a particular set of features) matters to you, I recommend speaking up about it. It's only a recommendation by me (not the Evernote staff), and you are free to ignore it.

In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

I watch the forum of another company that is critical for my workflow, and I have posted scathingly insightful (in my humble opinion!) reviews of their hobbled and ultimately infuriating service, but a year later, nothing more than a recommendation to re-upload about 100 GB of data again. Ultimately, the recommendation would be an ill-advised wild goose chase, because buried in the service description is a note that they have effectively hobbled the service, so no amount of uploading will fix that. It's too bad, but I still monitor the thread and the forum on occasion. It takes about 10 minutes of my year -- it's pretty dead there nowadays with new users who pop in when they stumble across the gaping (but hidden) hole in the feature, and those of us who have complained in the past and still have the thread set to alert us by email. Still, I think it's worth it for the opportunity to lodge my opinion/criticism. Their lack of knowledge about their own service and lack of attempts to communicate with users demonstrate (to my eyes, at least) their total disinterest in our opinions. Frankly, I'm not even sure why the forums are there.

Evernote (a quasi competitor to this particular company) is markedly better. Just look through this thread and you'll find the developers right here talking to you. At least the developers care enough to communicate and discuss features. If you choose not to take advantage of it, that is certainly your right, and I get it, but you'll miss an opportunity to influence the app in a way that might preserve or improve your workflow.

so why didn't you tell them in advance that you wouldn't want to be put in the situation where you would need upload all that data again? I've seen you make this same argument a number of times now, and it makes no sense. The guy is giving a valuable contribution, and just because you don't agree with it, and expect us all to be mindreaders doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to voice it. Being a forum contributor doesn't earn you special rights to have your view listened to by the vendor any more than not contributing to a forum means the vendor can yoink  functionality straight out of your hands just because you didn't list all the features you like. It's just a stupid argument. With some products there aren't even forums that the vendor participates in, let alone pays attention to!! Some products are vast too... sorry i haven't got time for this, i'm just off to the apple forums to list all the features of OSX and say which ones I need and which ones I don't - I have to do this every week just in case. Better safe than sorry. 

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All these guys/gals is needed is "we are listening, we were under the impression that users didn't use this view, we'll let development know that a lot of users desperately want it back".  Not "you're using it wrong" or "why didn't you tell us" or "you're using it in a non-standard way".

Post #12 in this topic: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/?p=206939

Post #24 in this topic: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/?p=207005

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I love the comparative simplicity of the same issue on the Windows side. @MadKnickers writes in distraught about the vertical view and how to get the horizontal back and @mrossk replies nonchalantly "Ctrl-Shift-F5". And that's all there was to it.

(http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29528-help-my-panel-layout-has-changed-how/)

Please let the option of switching on the Mac be as simple!

 

I remember when that happened on Windows. That's why when my Mac view changed to vertical the first thing I went looking for was how to toggle between the two.  

 

I don't use the Windows client anymore, but last time I checked that 'toggle' was still a hidden (not user discoverable) keystroke. That still feels odd that you can't get to it from the UI (unless I missed it). In fact I just checked the current keyboard shortcuts for Windows and it is NOT listed there.

http://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#/article/23168552

 

Maybe they are trying to 'ween' us off the horizontal view? Does anyone know if the Windows client defaults to Horizontal or Vertical on a new install? I'm just curious. 

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I second what EddieHinkle posted and I am also a paid user for almost two years. My entire workflows for business and personal use involves Evernote. The old Horizontal View was the only view that I have used for a long time. Why eliminate a view all together? After upgrading today I spent too much time trying the other views, field setups and sort functions. Now I have to take extra steps to work with my notes and when I am limited to just the screen on my laptop, I can no longer have Evernote usable on one side of the screen and a web meeting screen on the other half. Hopefully the Horizontal view can be put back in. Even if that means no reminders I am fine with that. Thank you.

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Thanks JesseE for the instructions on how to downgrade back to a version that has horizontal views. Worked like a charm!

 

To me, it's much more important to be able to use a tool the way I want to use it. While I'm sure there are a number of wonderful features I might be missing out on with the older version, those features won't do me a world of good if I don't use the product in the first place. When EN decides to add horizontal view back in, then I will gladly upgrade.

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Are you guys serious?  We're talking about a basic horizontal list view that existed, that a lot of users clearly used, and now it got taken away from them.  And you guys are actually bringing in arguments about using "using Evernote in a way it wasn't designed to be used" and "use Evernote in a non-standard way"?!  They were using it the way it was designed to be used, they were using one of its features, and a very basic one at that.

 

When a user is upset that a feature that was extremely important to them was removed, responding with these types of answers only infuriates them more.

 

All these guys/gals is needed is "we are listening, we were under the impression that users didn't use this view, we'll let development know that a lot of users desperately want it back".  Not "you're using it wrong" or "why didn't you tell us" or "you're using it in a non-standard way".

 

As I said above, we are in basic agreement about the horizontal view being something that ought to be included in the app. I am not sure why it would infuriate you to suggest ways of trying to keep this kind of problem from happening to you in the future, and suggesting ways to adjust to the new UI. 

 

As for how you use the app, I don't remember anyone telling you that you use it wrong. I think you are making that up and getting angry about what you imagine was said, instead of reading and responding to what was actually said. Perhaps I am wrong and you can point that quote of yours out to me. As I have mentioned before, I often fall outside of the mainstream use case as well (call it non-standard, or whatever you would like) and I think this is why we have to communicate with the developers. 

 

As for letting developers know how you feel, you don't need me to do that. I can assure you that they are reading this thread, even on their Memorial Day weekend :) I am just responding as a fellow user to the feedback of a fellow user. 

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Like others, what a miserable discovery. I use the tags view ALL THE TIME. I sort my notes by businesses, and this new view is crippling. I track by date created and sort by date edited if need be. I actually had been reading an article on how great Evernote is, noted some ideas it had that I had not thought of, and opened up Evernote to try them out. 

 

I get how easy it is to make these types of mistakes. It always sucks that customers ultimately pick up the bill...

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All these guys/gals is needed is "we are listening, we were under the impression that users didn't use this view, we'll let development know that a lot of users desperately want it back".  Not "you're using it wrong" or "why didn't you tell us" or "you're using it in a non-standard way".

Post #12 in this topic: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/?p=206939

Post #24 in this topic: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/?p=207005

 

Notice the word "all" at the beginning of my first sentence.  I didn't say that such posts hadn't been made, rather that was "all" that should be done, and that some of the additional types of responses are only likely to inflame users.  Which is exactly what happened.

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They were using it the way it was designed to be used, they were using one of its features, and a very basic one at that.

I made a specific reference to people using Evernote for complex task management systems such as GTD. I think I can make a pretty good case that Evernote developers were not making a GTD app. I suggested that maybe those folks (who are generally aware they are using Evernote in a way the designers did not originally envision) tell Evernote, "Hey, you make a great product and I've found a great way to use it. X Feature makes it possible for me to X thing. You might want to consider expanding on that feature or mentioning its use in the documentation. Thanks!". Viola! Evernote has a use case and a data point.

At no point have I said anyone's use was "wrong". At no point have I suggested that anyone was wrong for wanting a particular feature. So, unknot your knickers and enjoy your Sunday afternoon.

Best of luck.

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It's not so much about the vertical view, but about losing the horizontal one in the process. I also think some people probably don't realize that it is quite customizable (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106).

 

It does not matter how customisable it is. Three words: Screen real estate. Even on my 1920*1080 screen, I now have to choose which information I want truncated. I can customise from here to Christmas without getting around that problem (that is, if I want to be able to read my notes too). There is no way to see all titles and all tags on the same time, for instance. Also, I now have no way of utilising the full width of the app to view my notes without opening a standalone window.

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I'm Premium member. Have loved the product, but losing horizontal view just killed my workflow. I have no reasons to add that haven't already been well-articulated.

 

I've tried vertical view in the past. Doesn't add value for me, nor do reminders. Being able to see my stuff in a way to which I've acclimated is paramount.

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Been a premium member for a couple of years now. I don't use the forums unless I'm having a problem with Evernote, so I didn't see any post about removing horizontal list view. Please consider this backlash.

 

The new vertical view is a terrible waste of space for me. I use (and pay) for Evernote because it's a great program for writing, reading, and searching notes, not because of reminders or other frills. I'm all for adding new functionality but not that affects the core purpose of Evernote!

 

Could someone please explain how I might go about downgrading from 5.1.0? 

 

EXACTLY.  Sorry guys but I'm working a lot of hours. I use Evernote but I don't have time to hang out on the forums to protect the features that I use all the time! Imagine if we had to do that for all our apps? I come here only when a change messes things up and I want to stomp around and complain and ask to have it back.

 

PLEASE???

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Why should I have to speak up and complain that you want to remove a feature to stop the process?  I pay for a feature that I would assume you would not in your right mind remove.  I don't need reminders.  I use "The Hit List" for that.  I pay good money to them and am pleased to inform you they don't remove features.  They have a clue about customer satisfaction.  Do what you will with reminders.  It means nothing to me.  Bring back horizontal list view!!!

 

Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Evernote team began as an online document imaging company who essentially fell in a mud-puddle and came out with a gold watch.  So, aren't all of us note-takers, and anyone not using the product for that original intent, using the product in a non-standard way?  Just saying.

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I also would like the old view back. As someone who works with Evernote only taking up half of my horizontal screen the new view is just not useable at all. Will be reverting back to the older version until this is fixed.

 

+1. I've also reverted.

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it's basically like finding that the new Ford car you just bought had no steering wheel and instead has a joystick. When you ask the salesman what happened, the following interaction occurs

 

SALESMAN - "oh yea, we had to remove the steering wheel to make way for the new multimedia screen - it's really cool!"

YOU - "Riiiight... but I'm used to driving cars with steering wheels - i wanted, and paid for a steering wheel"

SALESMAN - "Everyone wants the new multimedia system, and there was only this way to fit it in!"

YOU - "Well I don't want it... I'm not even going to use it - and anyway, isn't the way you drive the car more important than watching films when you're meant to be driving?"

SALESMAN - "No of course not! This is progress!"

YOU - "Erm.... it isn't.... Who's idea was this?"

SALESMAN - "Sir, we had a poster up for a week in the corner of the showroom behind the large pot-plant, to tell people about the steering wheel removal - but no-one complained"

YOU - "Well I certainly would have complained had I seen it, but I don't tend to hang around here... well I want my old car back now please unless you give me a steering wheel"

OTHER CUSTOMERS - "YEA US TOO!"

RANDOM GUY - MIGHT BE THE CLEANER - "If you guys had just hung around the showroom every day, and asked the salespeople constantly, read all the sales brochures regularly for changes, written to ford every week.... maybe the steering wheel would never have been removed"

YOU AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS IN DISBELIEF ".......    but surely you can't be.... that's ridiculous.... i mean, i don't even know where to start........ yea we've all kind of got lives to lead sorry"

SALESMAN - "Bye Bye!"

RANDOM GUY - "I love Fords"

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  • Level 5*

@ZZZ:

You forget: 

 

1: This is a user forum. If posters here want to have side-discussions with other users, that's not prevented by any rules, so long as it's more or less topical and doesn't get into personal accusations. I haven't seen that happening here, even though some of the discussions have been pretty hard-nosed.

 

2: Evangelists are not Evernote employees; we don't speak for Evernote, we don't have any special "in" with development plans, priorities and schedules, and we have the same right to voice opinions as anyone else (and we can be as right or wrong as anyone else). In other words, we're Evernote users too, albeit with our little tin badges.

 

In any case, I don't think that the word "all" means what you think it does in that context: The implication, as I read it, was that Evernote had not communicated something along the lines of what you asked for. And forever-evernote did that, early on. Anyways, if you want to persist in discussing side-issues yourself (which is what you're doing now), then you're welcome to continue.

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In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

Most people are here because we are consumers of a tool, not fanboys of app celebrities.  We don't have time to constantly monitor and post on 50 program forums.  You are clearly quite devoted to Evernote, and quite an expert.  For the vast majority of Evernote users, however, we just want a useful tool, and we will be quick to find replacements if our tool is broken.  Don't blame the customer.

 

Incidentally, Microsoft just pulled a similar move in forcing an unwanted UI change on consumers, and they have since backtracked.  Lesson here?

 

Evernote developers: I appreciate all that you do and that you are only trying to make as good a product as possible.  You have overwhelmingly succeeded, but clearly you have made a mistake here.  Which is fine, we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them.  Could we please get some feedback though on whether/when you plan to fix it?

 

I don't think of myself as an Evernote fanboy. If anything, I'm actually a notetaking enthusiast, and I try to support developers who make great apps for that purpose. Testing betas, offering feedback, and encouraging them to do this or that seems like a small price to pay (a few minutes a year) to help out, and maybe even have the app fit better into my workflow. I try to help out Evernote third party developers as well with testing and so forth.

 

Obviously, Evernote is important in my workflow. However, there are many times when I turn to apps like nvALT (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=51) or VoodooPad (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=62) on the Mac as well. They serve very different purposes, and as much as I love Evernote, it simply cannot do some things like translate markdown into web pages or integrate with Scrivener (a word processing app). Sometimes developers incorporate my suggestions, sometimes they don't, and sometimes they even do the opposite of what I'd like to see. That's fine. I'm glad to say that they listen, and that is enough for me. In the case of Evernote, I don't have any more influence than any other user. 

 

I am not blaming the customer. I am suggesting a different way to interact with developers. It's up to you. My point from the beginning of this thread has been that the developers are out there, they want to hear what you think, and I encourage everyone to let them know. Not every company is like that, and when you find one, I think it is worth taking the time to provide your input. Keep the feedback coming in this thread, but please consider dropping by the forums again in the future to comment on some other things you'd like to see.

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They were using it the way it was designed to be used, they were using one of its features, and a very basic one at that.

I made a specific reference to people using Evernote for complex task management systems such as GTD. I think I can make a pretty good case that Evernote developers were not making a GTD app. I suggested that maybe those folks (who are generally aware they are using Evernote in a way the designers did not originally envision) tell Evernote, "Hey, you make a great product and I've found a great way to use it. ..

 

I think it's fine for users to tell developers how they are using their app.  I'm not sure how whether someone is using it for GTD or the most basic note taking has anything to do with a simple horizontal list view though, since such a view is clearly going to be used by all types of users.  Are you suggesting that if EN had only known that some people are using it for GTD, that they would not have taken away the horizontal list view?

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In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

Most people are here because we are consumers of a tool, not fanboys of app celebrities.  We don't have time to constantly monitor and post on 50 program forums.  You are clearly quite devoted to Evernote, and quite an expert.  For the vast majority of Evernote users, however, we just want a useful tool, and we will be quick to find replacements if our tool is broken.  Don't blame the customer.

 

Incidentally, Microsoft just pulled a similar move in forcing an unwanted UI change on consumers, and they have since backtracked.  Lesson here?

 

Evernote developers: I appreciate all that you do and that you are only trying to make as good a product as possible.  You have overwhelmingly succeeded, but clearly you have made a mistake here.  Which is fine, we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them.  Could we please get some feedback though on whether/when you plan to fix it?

 

+1

 

I use at least 15 apps regularly.  The EN model which assumes I will visit the user forum for every app every couple of days to see if the developer is going to destroy the UI is nonsensical.  If you want my opinion on something, you have my email address.  Remember?  You send me invoices for my Premium Group with that email address every month.

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I'm probably stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the main issue between user's who prefer vertical and that prefer horizontal is in how much screen real-estate those users devote to Evernote. In all the example screen shots I found of vertical list view - including the infamous poling post from Jackolicious - the screen shots always show Evernote filling up an entire large wide monitor:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/1facc864-a1b9-4943-9336-a38ebbc0a34d/69057856bd9d9f872abda21b97de868a

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4?noteKey=fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4&noteGuid=02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2

 

User arguments for one view or the other also seem to reflect a user's preference for whether they 'full screen' the app or not:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423

 

If I ran Evernote at the full width of my monitor I would probably also conclude that the horizontal view wastes space. But I don't, I split my screen between Evernote and other apps like my code editor. I reference my notes while working.

 

At any rate, I'm not arguing for one or the other. I'm just pointing out that a particular user's way of using Evernote and sizing Evernote on their screen dictates which layout is more effective for them. The only logical conclusion (though probably not the favorite of the developers) is to support both. 

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I'm also a fan of the horizontal view.  Personally I prefer seeing all the data about my notes (Created Date, Modified, Title, Notebook, Tags).  While I can add these columns in the vertical list view, I can't see all the data.  Without making my note view super skinny.  I also have a sidebar up that I use all the time so that is also taking real estate.  Personally, I'm not going to use reminders.  I have other places I store tasks and reminders.  But I always use the horizontal view.  So this upgrade removed functionality for me.  As others have said, I don't see why could couldn't keep the horizontal view.  If the reminders was the problem, then don't show reminders in the horizontal view.  Only have them displayed in the other views.  

 

As far as soliciting feedback from people, as others have said, I don't come here unless I have an issue.  Why not send an email to your paying customers (which I am one of), and ask for our input that way.  Surely you had to know this change would cause issues for people.   

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2: Evangelists are not Evernote employees; we don't speak for Evernote, we don't have any special "in" with development plans, priorities and schedules, and we have the same right to voice opinions as anyone else (and we can be as right or wrong as anyone else). In other words, we're Evernote users too, albeit with our little tin badges.

 

Yes I get that.  And it's my position that if a company is going to allow people to be associated with them as "evangelists", whether paid or not, and have them be the primary people representing them on their forums, they should be training them how to interact with users so they make users feel good about participating and offering feedback, not angrier than when they started.  I am not saying you all do that, nor that many of you don't help users a great deal.  I am however saying that it's impossible to miss on this forum that users are routinely being interacted with in a way that seems to inflame them.  I posted three posts in the business forum last night and this morning was greeted by an evangelist basically dismissing each of my concerns and telling me that "I seem to expect the software to do exactly what I want it to".  (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38392-how-do-i-activatereactive-business-account/)  That type of response just drives users away.

 

Perhaps I am especially sensitive to this since my companies deals with a lot of similar issues and we're very customer focused and also focused on how we respond to people.  We can't give people everything they want, but it's especially important to listen to feedback and never dismiss it in such ways.  Anyhow, I don't expect to change anything here, that would have to happen because someone at the top made it happen.

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ZZZ-

I am suggesting that if more people had told the developers that this was a feature that was important to them, the more likely it might have been that they would have considered finding a way to include it. I've said that a couple of different ways now. It is becoming obvious that you seem to want to argue about something no one here has the power to change. I have nothing more I feel I need to say on the matter.

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Count me as a vote in favor of bringing horizontal view back. The vertical view customized to show the list data I require, interestingly, takes up too much horizontal space. If there was a way I could use the new vertical view and have an option to hide the preview pane, that would help. But even better if I could have the preview pane underneath the list, that would be the best. Oh, wait, that would be the previous horizontal view. Yeah, do that. Thanks!

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  • Level 5*

presumably 5.1.4 is not yet released to free users...

 

It is, I've never seen them release the app to Premium customers first - you may have to wait for your App Store to catch up if that's where you are getting it from.

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It's fantastic that you add new views, but *removing* something that has been available for years and is part of people's daily workflow makes no sense. 

 

Stop the pathetic excuses and solve the problem: bring the horizontal list view back. 

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ZZZ-

I am suggesting that if more people had told the developers that this was a feature that was important to them, the more likely it might have been that they would have considered finding a way to include it. I've said that a couple of different ways now. It is becoming obvious that you seem to want to argue about something no one here has the power to change. I have nothing more I feel I need to say on the matter.

 

Actually I was about to "like" your post until I got to the "it's becoming obvious you want to argue" part.  You'll now have to live with that fact that your post could have been liked but wasn't :D.

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  • Level 5

Hi everyone,

Thank you all SO much for weighing in. Your feedback matters a tremendous amount. I can't promise anything either way, but your comments *are* being read by Evernote employees. We don't make a decision like this lightly so please bear with us while collect information.

Thanks again.

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  • Level 5*

ZZZ-

I am suggesting that if more people had told the developers that this was a feature that was important to them, the more likely it might have been that they would have considered finding a way to include it. I've said that a couple of different ways now. It is becoming obvious that you seem to want to argue about something no one here has the power to change. I have nothing more I feel I need to say on the matter.

 

Actually I was about to "like" your post until you got to the "it's becoming obvious you want to argue".  You'll now have to live with that fact that your post could have been liked but wasn't :D.

 

Well, you do have a sense of humor. I'll grant you that :)

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I'm probably stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the main issue between user's who prefer vertical and that prefer horizontal is in how much screen real-estate those users devote to Evernote. In all the example screen shots I found of vertical list view - including the infamous poling post from Jackolicious - the screen shots always show Evernote filling up an entire large wide monitor:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/1facc864-a1b9-4943-9336-a38ebbc0a34d/69057856bd9d9f872abda21b97de868a

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4?noteKey=fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4&noteGuid=02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2

 

User arguments for one view or the other also seem to reflect a user's preference for whether they 'full screen' the app or not:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423

 

If I ran Evernote at the full width of my monitor I would probably also conclude that the horizontal view wastes space. But I don't, I split my screen between Evernote and other apps like my code editor. I reference my notes while working.

 

At any rate, I'm not arguing for one or the other. I'm just pointing out that a particular user's way of using Evernote and sizing Evernote on their screen dictates which layout is more effective for them. The only logical conclusion (though probably not the favorite of the developers) is to support both. 

Here is an 11" MBA view.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106

I often use the app on half my screen, but I have the Sidebar closed, and I don't need much screen real estate to write (I sometimes even pair up a bluetooth keyboard to my iPhone when I am writing). As you said, it depends on your use case / workflow.

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I'm probably stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the main issue between user's who prefer vertical and that prefer horizontal is in how much screen real-estate those users devote to Evernote. In all the example screen shots I found of vertical list view - including the infamous poling post from Jackolicious - the screen shots always show Evernote filling up an entire large wide monitor:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/1facc864-a1b9-4943-9336-a38ebbc0a34d/69057856bd9d9f872abda21b97de868a

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4?noteKey=fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4¬eGuid=02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2

 

User arguments for one view or the other also seem to reflect a user's preference for whether they 'full screen' the app or not:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423

 

If I ran Evernote at the full width of my monitor I would probably also conclude that the horizontal view wastes space. But I don't, I split my screen between Evernote and other apps like my code editor. I reference my notes while working.

 

At any rate, I'm not arguing for one or the other. I'm just pointing out that a particular user's way of using Evernote and sizing Evernote on their screen dictates which layout is more effective for them. The only logical conclusion (though probably not the favorite of the developers) is to support both.

 

As I posted above, even when using Evernote in full screen on a fairly large monitor, the vertical list view is awkward for me. I have not updated my 13" Macbook and I am probably not going to.

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You want to know why I like the old list view, and why the new view doesn't work for me?

 

Because my screen is wider than it is tall.

 

Because horizontal screen space is valuable, and this new list view just took up 1/3 of it.

 

Because having the list on top keeps it out of the way. If I need to, I can glance up. If I need more note space, I can make the list view almost disappear.

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  • Level 5*

If you want to switch from the appstore version to the direct download one, it is not difficult (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=135). Otherwise, you have to wait for Apple to finish the approval process. As far as I know (to expand on what Metrodon said) there has never been any distinction made between Free and Premium users -- we all get the same app at the same time.

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GrumpyMonkey, if it makes you feel any better, I've noticed you're exceptionally helpful here.  Anyhow, I've had my say here.  I'll now return to my standard non-posting habit and won't let the door hit me on the way out....;-).

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bring back horizontal list view. For my primary use of Evernote (GTD, based on "The Secret Weapon" system), the new vertical only list view is MUCH less useful.

 

I am not advocating ditching the vertical view-- I understand it may work better for others. One of the great strengths/beauties of EN is that it can be used in so many completely different kinds of ways. Especially in a program like this, users should be able to choose options and customize to suit their way of working. "One size fits all" is bad UI design.

 

Re the issue above of "why didn't you speak up earlier when we posted about verical vs horizontal list view"-- (1) I suspect there are lots of users who really depend on EN but don't spend time hanging out on these forums. I look at the forums when I have something specific I need, not otherwise. So, posting on a forum only reaches a subset of users-- it's not a representative poll. (2) From what I've found looking back, nobody ever said "we're considering a non-optional switch from horizontal-only to vertical-only view; how would this affect you?"

 

So-- please give users the option of choosing between the layouts for list view.

Duh...!  Well said... Why would EN even think of taking away a view we've always had anyways?  Bad move EN. Give us back our SIMPLE horizontal view option. Give us options, dont take away our options.

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Another "please give us back the horizontal list". Or at least implement an option to change the postion from vertical to horizontal because a "vertical list view" is really useless. You don't see all columns and you don't see all informations from the selected note UNLESS you move the splitter bar. This can't really be a design decision. If so I'd rather dispense with reminders.

So sad that this view has gone. I'm really thinking about downgrading again....and just did it..

 

So please keep up with your good work, but give us back the "horizontal list view".

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  • Level 5*

GrumpyMonkey, if it makes you feel any better, I've noticed you're exceptionally helpful here.  Anyhow, I've had my say here.  I'll now return to my standard non-posting habit and won't let the door hit me on the way out....;-).

 

Thanks for the kind words. Please feel free to jump back into the conversation anytime. And, I also encourage you to send along your wish list (from another thread) to Evernote via the support page, or keep posting here in the forums about it. I am sure the Business folks would like to know what you want in the app, even if they may not be willing or able to provide everything on the list. It never hurts to ask!

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Horizontal list view was a critical part of my daily work flow.  Sorting by tags tells me what I should be doing today.  It is so important I took time to figure out how to log a support ticket (site keeps showing up in spanish).

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