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(Archived) View missing in 5.1.1


Bradley Chambers

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Thanks for posting the link to download the older version with horizontal view. I'm rolling back to it until it returns to the Mac version. I can do without reminders in exchange for getting the horizontal list view back.

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I also would like the old view back. As someone who works with Evernote only taking up half of my horizontal screen the new view is just not useable at all. Will be reverting back to the older version until this is fixed.

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I am one of the ones that loves the new vertical view and requested it, however I never dreamed it meant users who preferred horizontal view would have to lose that, and wish they hadn't. BTW, I find some of the posts in this forum sort of half-directing blame at complaining users for not knowing the road map and not speaking up to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen on a forum :).

Hi. That would be me you are talking about? If so, I don't blame anyone for anything. In fact, I did speak up for horizontallers and the view still went away. It's not anyone's fault. It was a design decision that was probably made with a lot more factors in mind than we have at hand, and maybe if I had been in the meetings, I would have agreed. Who knows? At any rate, I encourage users to speak up any time, because the developers need to hear from you.

I simply said that if you care about something enough that you would miss it if it were gone, then let someone know before it is gone. This goes for people and apps. Even if you communicate and they know, it might not change the end result, but at least they will know your thoughts and consider them. Is that so bizarre?

In fact, I just got a five year anniversary email from Evernote asking for feedback about how the service has affected me. Evernote is reaching out because it wants to know your thoughts. Is that so bizarre?

Don't wait five years, though, to share your thoughts with people. Send an email and let the developers of all your favorite apps know what you like/dislike. It only takes a few minutes and could make a big difference. That's my advice. If it seems too bizarre, then feel free to disregard it :)

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

I use the Vertical View (in Windows) 100% of my time.

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4

 

But...

I don't recall seeing any ultimatum from Evernote that it was going to be one version or the other.

 

Haven't seen much in the Reminder launch that couldn't also been done with the simple Due Date field.

And that would have prevented this Judgment of Solomon decision to kill off one of the views.

 

Search Code 47ER92 - I believe this is at least my 32nd post requesting the Due Date field.
.
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I can only second the required return of the horizontal view. Evernote is a note-taking and -reading app first and foremost, and confining especially saved webpages to a mere slit breaks any user experience for me. Same for writing texts in Evernote. You know, some of us write long paragraphs and texts, not only bullet point lists? The vertical view doesn't do the note pane justice, nor the list pane.

 

I will downgrade to 5.0.7 as so many others until an option for the horizontal view is back. Reminders - OK, nice new feature. But please don't break the app for me because of them. And I am saying this as a paying and previously extremely happy customer... :-(

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Just to add my voice to the chorus of those BEGGING for the Horizontal List View to be added back... I've been a Premium user and huge Evernote fan for years, I basically live inside it all day long for research/writing/project planning and this forced switch to Vertical List View has COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY wrecked my workflow and productivity. I don't care about reminders one way or the other, but if the Horizontal List View is not added back, I will be forced to consider canceling my Premium membership and checking out other products - which I really don't want to do! So disappointing, Evernote.

In the meantime I guess I'm going to try to downgrade to 5.0.7, but please please please add it back to the next/future versions...

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Evernote team is notorious for coming up with bad design ideas. So now Evernote itself goes on my list of "Never to be updated" applications after Skitch. :(

(I'm keeping a newer copy on the machine that I rarely use, to check up on the updates, but so far things are not any better.)

 

@GrumpyMonkey I'm using about 200 different applications. Are you suggesting that I must go to every single vendor forum and keep track of what's going on there? Really, I have lots of far more important things to do. 

Don't forget that programs are just a tools (like hammer or screwdriver) that help us to do what we need to do. There is no program that has a value of its own.

Should I keep up with each vendor and _preventively_ post "Please don't break the good tool you've created"? Moreover, should I try to imagine every possible way of ruining it and post "don't do this" or "don't do that"?! That's ridiculous!

 

I would not suggest to developers what to do, just note that this is not first time when something is wrong with your design. Maybe you should hold designer responsible once in a while?

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I am one of the ones that loves the new vertical view and requested it, however I never dreamed it meant users who preferred horizontal view would have to lose that, and wish they hadn't. BTW, I find some of the posts in this forum sort of half-directing blame at complaining users for not knowing the road map and not speaking up to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen on a forum :).

Hi. That would be me you are talking about? If so, I don't blame anyone for anything. In fact, I did speak up for horizontallers and the view still went away. It's not anyone's fault. It was a design decision that was probably made with a lot more factors in mind than we have at hand, and maybe if I had been in the meetings, I would have agreed. Who knows? At any rate, I encourage users to speak up any time, because the developers need to hear from you.

I simply said that if you care about something enough that you would miss it if it were gone, then let someone know before it is gone. This goes for people and apps. Even if you communicate and they know, it might not change the end result, but at least they will know your thoughts and consider them. Is that so bizarre?

In fact, I just got a five year anniversary email from Evernote asking for feedback about how the service has affected me. Evernote is reaching out because it wants to know your thoughts. Is that so bizarre?

Aside fr

Don't wait five years, though, to share your thoughts with people. Send an email and let the developers of all your favorite apps know what you like/dislike. It only takes a few minutes and could make a big difference. That's my advice. If it seems too bizarre, then feel free to disregard it :)

 

sorry but that's the most idiotic thing i've ever heard. You are seriously suggesting that for every application we use, we should ensure that we let the author know every feature we would not like to be removed in future? Is that actually what you are saying? Aside from that being completely impractical and just entirely completely the wrong mindset let alone approach, often users won't know how much they have come to rely on something until it's gone. Basic functionality is assumed to be a core pillar of a product. If you change something quite fundamental that affects so many users, and the whole usability of the product, to the point where users are downgrading, talking about stopping using the product entirely you MUST rethink. I don't think most of the affected users ever thought something like this would change, because authors just don't do this type of thing. It isn't something a user might expect to happen. Someone needs to go and read the usability hall of shame, before they end up on it. 

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At a quick glance through this thread, it seems that a number of the people upset about the loss of the vetical list view are using Evernote for something it wasn't really designed to do: handling a complex task management system like GTD. In cases like that, what GM is suggesting makes perfect sense. If you are using a program in a non-standard way, especially one that changes as frequently as Evernote, it does behoove you to let the developers know how you use the program. Any program I use frequently that isn't by some huge company, I provide suggestions and feedback to regularly, especially if it's a free program. I tell the developers what I like and what I'd like to see and, what I don't like. The result is that, for a number of programs by small outfits, I actually get consulted about future changes. This takes me less than an hour a month.

I also give feedback to the local cafe I frequent and the small local market where I shop.

Best of luck.

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Just updated and saw the disaster. Please bring the Horizontal list view back. It is necessary to correctly read note titles with dates. I use Evernote for a lot of things, a lab notebook being a part of it. I have > 1200 notes right now and need some details in the list view (full titles, dates created/modified) that the vertical list view can't display on my monitor. Next thing I'll do after writing this is revert to 5.0.x.

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Posted · Hidden by jefito, April 18, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by jefito, April 18, 2014 - No reason given

Hi all forum readers (and Evernote):

 

Here is a thread from a ticket that I created when this upgrade first happened, before I discovered this forum. As you can see below, they appear to have made a commitment to bringing us full configurability. Now all we need is a date, or better yet, the real thing.....

 

Hello chrislumb,

Currently our development team is reviewing the possibility of bringing back the horizontal display or adding the ability for user to select a display view.
Either one will be available in a future release but unfortunately we don't have an estimated time for this.

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

Thank you.

Tania Iniguez
Evernote Support

 

chrislumb - Jun 01


Thanks for the 'canned' note. What are you going to do about this issue -
can you confirm when you will be bringing horizontal lists back again? Or
if you are not going to, can you confirm that too so I can get busy finding
another note taking app?

 

Thanks

Chris

Tania Iniguez - May 26


Thank you for providing this feedback on Evernote.
We really appreciate you taking the time to send us your feedback. Your comments and suggestions will help us to enhance Evernote and serve you better.
We will be sure to pass on the information you've provided to the product development team for discussion.

 

Thank you.

chrislumb - May 26


Hey guys, Your new screen formatting to show more real estate for lists and less for a current note is a bad idea.

 

This is not an improvement: I don't want my screen to be taken up by a long list of notes, most of which are not relevant to the task at hand.

How can I get my old version back? Or, when can you provide broader user configuration of screen layout?

Come on...let's get this back in shape again. Thanks Evernote team - your product is otherwise excellent.

 

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Thank you, much appreciated.

The addition of the reminders might come in handy and I like how you can just scroll down and they're not in the way when you're not looking at them.

Keep up the good work :)

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THANK YOU!!!!

 

It's great that you guys were able to turn this around so quick - you must have swooped straight into action when it became clear the removal of the top list was an absolute show-stopper for so many of us.

 

Life is full of learning experiences right - if I could suggest one take-away from this whole storm in a tea-cup, it would be to let your customers know that you have swooped into action. I contacted chat support and they simply refused to tell me anything. They suggested I post here, and again, nothing official from EverNote. I checked the EverNote blog, also nothing. You had leapt into action, but we simply did not know you had, so we were still worrying that we needed to shout louder to be heard. A simple to the point blog post to the effect that a solution is in the works was all that would have been needed. At the very least you could have given your tech support people a quick one-line stock answer to that effect. I felt so sorry for the poor chat support agent who was prevented from helping me, either because she had been kept ignorant, or because she had been told to say nothing. As it was, both of us left the conversation with nothing to show for it but wasted time - I was no more mollified than when the chat started started (in fact I was more frustrated), and the agent seemed genuinely sorry that she was unable to be of any assistance at all.

 

Anyhow - thanks, and please consider being more communicative next time there is a boo boo. I never judge a company by whether or not they make mistakes, we ALL do that, I judge companies by how they respond to their mistakes, and how they learn from their mistakes.

 

Bart.

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This is a busy thread.  I haven't read every post, but after seeing some of the discontent on the blog, I thought I would come in here and voice their concerns.  Looks like a LOT of other people beat me to it.  As someone who wanted vertical list view, I never thought it was an either/or option.  Ultimately, I think "user choice" is a good rule of thumb.  I even Skitched a little something below.  Would this work for people?

 

skitch.png

 

 

I guess you could always have another view "Expanded List View", maybe.  And in regards to Reminders.  Maybe just handle them like you do in the Expanded Card View.  Just have them way at the top past the Note List.

 

I realize there's a lot of upset people, and as a pseudo-developer, I get that this stuff is hard.  I would just remind everyone that Evernote (unlike any other company I've seen) actually engages with their users and actively develops based on feedback.  The speed at which these people iterate blows my mind.

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As I mentioned, I actually prefer the new vertical view, but certainly didn't want to see people who preferred horizontal lose it.  Now I am curious how this is going to affect the Windows client?  It's crystal clear that reminders are here to stay and will probably be on the way with the next Windows client release.  Will the Windows client at that point also gain the vertical and lose the horizontal view?

 

I imagine there are a heck of a lot more Windows users so if the change on the Mac generated 14 pages (so far), it's going to be entertaining to see what happens when the Windows client gets the change.  Or is this fiasco causing them to rethink what they do with the Windows client before they release it?

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You would think Evernote understands that Reputation Management is a critical component of successful business management right? And gIven the extent of this problem and the number of people being vocal, don't you think it would be good idea to at least comment in YOUR OWN forums to let people know if this problem is being addressed? It's not like we need a 'roadmap' for your future growth plans - this is function issue, not a competitive edge issue - although if you continue to ignore it, it will certainly become your 'competitors' edge to exploit.

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EN Team, please provide your position on restoring the horizontal list view and an estimated date of delivery, if applicable.  Thank you.

See post #24 in this thread. An Evernote employee does given an explanation of why it was removed. Evernote, however, does not generally make their roadmap public.
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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :)' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.  

 

Dude, that is one of the greatest things I've ever seen on a forum (among off-topic stuff). Thank you for being a great example of showing a lot of class. My hat is off to you and I hope I remember to do the same if I post something I regret some day.

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  • Level 5

I'd like to keep the feedback on this thread constructive and about the product. Multiple posts and personal attacks aren't helpful.

 

As always, thanks to everyone for posting. Your requests are all being heard.

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For what its worth, and I won't belabour the point as it has been fully expressed by others:

  1. I too use(d) the horizontal list view exclusively as I use "The Secret Weapon" - i.e. Evernote for GTD
  2. I too read the changelog before "upgrading" and was surprised by the disappearance of a feature without any mention of it in the changelog
  3. Although I appreciate the potential usefulness of reminders (remains to be proven), I would certainly NOT have "upgraded" had I known what was coming down the pipe

As to not being able to reconcile the UI bits and pieces, you have at least 2 options that I can think of off the top of my head and I've only done a bit of Cocoa programming:

  1. Add the reminders as a section in the existing sidebar; or
  2. Add reminders in an inspector window for views where the reminder pane doesn't play well with others.

Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents.  I will try this thing for a little while longer before "downgrading" to v 5.1.0 but I sincerely hope the fix comes before that!

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+1  I review change notices before upgrading my software.  If removal of this view had been publicized with the upgrade, I would not have upgraded.  It has really disrupted my workflow for no benefit to me (I could care less about the Reminders feature...EN is not my calendar/messaging app)

 

Defeaturing a product and blaming it on a new feature, while excusing it with a "we did a poll on our forums" is mighty weak sauce.

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it's basically like finding that the new Ford car you just bought had no steering wheel and instead has a joystick. When you ask the salesman what happened, the following interaction occurs

 

SALESMAN - "oh yea, we had to remove the steering wheel to make way for the new multimedia screen - it's really cool!"

YOU - "Riiiight... but I'm used to driving cars with steering wheels - i wanted, and paid for a steering wheel"

SALESMAN - "Everyone wants the new multimedia system, and there was only this way to fit it in!"

YOU - "Well I don't want it... I'm not even going to use it - and anyway, isn't the way you drive the car more important than watching films when you're meant to be driving?"

SALESMAN - "No of course not! This is progress!"

YOU - "Erm.... it isn't.... Who's idea was this?"

SALESMAN - "Sir, we had a poster up for a week in the corner of the showroom behind the large pot-plant, to tell people about the steering wheel removal - but no-one complained"

YOU - "Well I certainly would have complained had I seen it, but I don't tend to hang around here... well I want my old car back now please unless you give me a steering wheel"

OTHER CUSTOMERS - "YEA US TOO!"

RANDOM GUY - MIGHT BE THE CLEANER - "If you guys had just hung around the showroom every day, and asked the salespeople constantly, read all the sales brochures regularly for changes, written to ford every week.... maybe the steering wheel would never have been removed"

YOU AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS IN DISBELIEF ".......    but surely you can't be.... that's ridiculous.... i mean, i don't even know where to start........ yea we've all kind of got lives to lead sorry"

SALESMAN - "Bye Bye!"

RANDOM GUY - "I love Fords"

This is so cool.  And so representative of the situation.  5 gold stars for you to put it in such an articulate and humorous way. :)

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  • Level 5*

it's basically like finding that the new Ford car you just bought had no steering wheel and instead has a joystick. When you ask the salesman what happened, the following interaction occurs

 

SALESMAN - "oh yea, we had to remove the steering wheel to make way for the new multimedia screen - it's really cool!"

YOU - "Riiiight... but I'm used to driving cars with steering wheels - i wanted, and paid for a steering wheel"

SALESMAN - "Everyone wants the new multimedia system, and there was only this way to fit it in!"

YOU - "Well I don't want it... I'm not even going to use it - and anyway, isn't the way you drive the car more important than watching films when you're meant to be driving?"

SALESMAN - "No of course not! This is progress!"

YOU - "Erm.... it isn't.... Who's idea was this?"

SALESMAN - "Sir, we had a poster up for a week in the corner of the showroom behind the large pot-plant, to tell people about the steering wheel removal - but no-one complained"

YOU - "Well I certainly would have complained had I seen it, but I don't tend to hang around here... well I want my old car back now please unless you give me a steering wheel"

OTHER CUSTOMERS - "YEA US TOO!"

RANDOM GUY - MIGHT BE THE CLEANER - "If you guys had just hung around the showroom every day, and asked the salespeople constantly, read all the sales brochures regularly for changes, written to ford every week.... maybe the steering wheel would never have been removed"

YOU AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS IN DISBELIEF ".......    but surely you can't be.... that's ridiculous.... i mean, i don't even know where to start........ yea we've all kind of got lives to lead sorry"

SALESMAN - "Bye Bye!"

RANDOM GUY - "I love Fords"

 

Well said Silvers.  You really hit the nail on the head!

 

Now, the question is, can Evernote see through their arrogance, admit a mistake, and take quick, corrective action.

 

This outcry is totally amazing.  It far exceeds the outcry for both Skitch 2 and EN Mac 5.  Wow!!!

 

Evernote, when are you going to realize that you do NOT always know best???  Sorry, but you are NOT the smartest person in the room.  :ph34r:

 

There is a very old adage, that has been proven again and again:  "The CUSTOMER is always right".  Wake up and smell the roses!! LOL

 

Want an example?  Look at GM and Ford, and all the other US auto makers in the late 1970s and 80s.  They refused to give the US people what we wanted, and so the Japanese and other foreign auto makers came in and stole the market.  Closer to home.  Look at Word Perfect in the mid 1980s.  Totally owned the word processor market.  Wouldn't/Couldn't adapt to the the graphical UI, and so completely lost the market to MS Word.

 

Let me close with this.  I say all of this not to bash Evernote, but to encourage you to be better.  I love your core product, but I do NOT love what you have done to it starting with EN Mac 5.  FYI, I'm still running EN Mac 3.3.0 on my primary system.  Come on Evernote, get over yourself!  :D

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Like everyone else, I need the horizontal list view. It should simply be one of the options. The change drives me crazy - now I can't even read the full note title in the list view. This seriously reduces the usability of Evernote on my Mac.

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Adding my voice to the chorus.

 

This update has killed the usability of evernote for me on my laptop screen. It really messes up my workflow.

 

For an application that can be used in so many unique and custom ways, it's really necessary to have a flexible UI.

 

At the very least, please let us HIDE THE NOTE PREVIEW so we can have a long list view of our notes.

 

I've been a premium member for quite a while and I might have to find another solution.

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Here is how to downgrade (upgrade) to a previous version:

1. Backup your database

2. Go here: http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

3. Download version 5.0.7 (latest version with horizontal view)

4. Profit.

 

To the EN team: please let me know when the horizontal view returns.  I will gladly upgrade then.

 

The reason I prefer the horizontal view is that I frequently work on a small laptop screen with multiple windows open.  My limited screen real estate makes this view much more useful and intuitive.  

 

I downloaded and installed the "older" version (5.0.7) as you suggested. Works great.

 

Even when someone's climb to the top of the pack is based on merit, they're still a target. Appreciate all the EN folks have done to give us a good product. I'll keep using this version until they're able to sort things out.

 

Downgrading failed!

 

I followed the steps mentioned by JesseE and I tried downgrading to version 5.07 & 5.06, but EN was not working.

 

Any Suggestions?

Worked fine for me.  But since you had problems, the following should be a total reset:

 

1.  Quit EN and drag the application to the Trash.

2.  Remove the Evernote folder at <your home folder>/Library/Application Support (to access your Library folder you'll need to hold down the Option key while selecting "Go" in the Finder menu.

3.  Empty the trash

4.  Install EN 5.07

5.  Start EN, enter your user info if requested.  All notes should download from the EN server.  Depending on how many notes you have and the speed of your connection this could take awhile.

 

Working fine now.

 

I used AppCleaner to uninstall EN related files on my home folder http://www.freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

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Thank you, Evernote, for bringing back the horizontal view. I'm grateful you found a way to accomplish it and, hopefully, not lose any features or functionality you gained when you removed it.

 

Hey Dan, if you see the screenshot I posted earlier, I don't think anything was lost in setting it up.  Looks pretty solid.  I was playing with it some last night, and I think the smart approach was to definitely have both views.  I can easily see the need for both.

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Can someone point me in the direction of how to downgrade back to 5.0.7 so I can get my horizontal view back???

 

I found 5.0. here and installed it. Seems to have worked fine to go from 5.1x back to 5.0.7. But proceed at your own risk. 

 

mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

Downgrade working fine for me.

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Please, Please, Please bring back the horizontal list view. I need a lot of space when I am writing long notes. With the horizontal list I can restrict the list to just a few items and have a BIG space for writing.

 

I also only visit this forum when I am having a problem and so I missed the request for input on the horizontal list. I won't be using reminders in Evernote - I have plenty of other options for reminders. But Evernote is my ONLY option for note taking.

 

I'm going back to version 5.0.7.

+1

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Another vote (plea) for horizontal view. I've used Evernote since 2008 and have been a premium user since it was available. Vertical list view is a ridiculous waste of screen space on my laptop. For all other reasons articulated in this thread, please bring it back.

 

I also have downgraded to 5.0.7 and will hold off on future upgrades until horizontal list view returns.

 

-Jeff

 

+1

 

Great timing, I also just received the monthly receipt for my Premium Group.  The EN way - pay more, get less.

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After using the vertical list view today while searching, it doesn't work well at all. I thought I might get used to it, just as I did with the search button being moved in the Evernote webclipper. However, it was really awful.

 

With the vertical view, it was much harder to see at a glance just which of those 12 notes was the one I needed.

 

Please bring back horizontal view! I'd much rather have the reminder button only available in vertical view than never have the horizontal view again.

 

What's the point of taking notes if you can't search or read them easily?

 

---Mary

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I am so incredibly disappointed in the loss of the horizontal view I've reverted to 5.0.7. Thankfully, it seems doing so has not caused me to lose the additions I made since the "upgrade."

 

I fully agree with these posts above:  

 

This just killed usability for me. What is the point of having options to turn on all those columns if I can't fit them on the screen???

For years I've been using the horizontal view. I show created date, updated date, title, notebook, and tags. 

And, 

Yes, please give back the option for the horizontal list. I have billions of programs for reminders, but only ONE I use for my notes. I NEED the horizontal list. 

And, 

By the way, I fail to see how reminders have anything to do with the lists orientation. Care to elaborate on that?

 

Surely there are ways to preserve the horizontal view and simultaneously implement reminders. 

 

I never monitor these forums or make posts, but I have been so very frustrated with this major change in how my many, many hours of work in Evernote are now displayed I felt I had to voice my concern. Please return the horizontal view. Evernote should not, under any circumstances, unilaterally remove such an important UI feature. It's unconscionable, and highly discouraging. The other Evernote views are, for me, quite useless.  My thoughts about going Pro at some point took a giant leap backwards because of this experience. 

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  • Level 5

@megsaint Fair comment that @Evernote gave an explanation. Body of opinion seems to be they should think again. In Hegelian dialectic terms we're just looking for "synthesis". :-) I would hope it would be found in greater customisability of the user experience.

(And I remain bemused by the notion that Reminders made some things impossible.)

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :) ' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.  

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I don't think it is idiotic to provide occasional feedback to developers. In fact, I think it is better for me to provide feedback before something unpleasant happens rather than after it does. My litmus test is: if I would miss it if it was gone, I try to mention how important it is to me. 

 

 

I am suggesting that if more people had told the developers that this was a feature that was important to them, the more likely it might have been that they would have considered finding a way to include it. 

 

 

<Sarcasm>

 

Dear Evernote,

 

I really love taking notes with your product. I use it to take notes everyday. Please don't remove the ability to take notes it is my favorite feature and is very important to me.

 

Sincerely yours,

 

Loyal Customer Since 2005

 

</Sarcasm>

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I'm a new user - and just moved all my stuff to evernote - really liking it. However, I just updated and can no longer get the horizontal list view - which makes it really cumbersome for me to use. I will not use Evernote until I can have a horizontal view - because it is just too frustrating for me to use.

 

Please bring horizontal list view back 

 

- a new, and previously happy, customer.

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  • Level 5*

Yes I get that.  And it's my position that if a company is going to allow people to be associated with them as "evangelists", whether paid or not, and have them be the primary people representing them on their forums, they should be training them how to interact with users so they make users feel good about participating and offering feedback, not angrier than when they started.

<snip>

Perhaps I am especially sensitive to this since my companies deals with a lot of similar issues and we're very customer focused and also focused on how we respond to people.  We can't give people everything they want, but it's especially important to listen to feedback and never dismiss it in such ways.  Anyhow, I don't expect to change anything here, that would have to happen because someone at the top made it happen.

That's your opinion, and that's fair enough and I respect it. Trust me when I tell you that there are rules for us evangelists/moderators, and if Evernote thinks that any of us has gone too far, they'll say something, and we'll accept that. Users also have the option of reporting any post that they find offensive/abusive/etc., no matter whose post it is. It will be looked at by Evernote staff, and discussed, seriously. Also trust me when I tell you that I do find actually helping users with their problems to be a lot more rewarding than discussing meta-topics like this, so I'll just sign off from it too.

On the topic of "blaming the user": I looked at my earlier post on "using Evernote in a way it wasn't designed to be used" vs. "using Evernote in a non-standard way" and realized that it made me seem like I was defending Evernote in this instance; that wasn't my intent. I was really just responding to GrumpyMonkey's terminology. As it is, I think that given that there was no beta for users to react to (thanks pgdahl for pointing that out to me), I can understand why users feel somewhat blindsided by the change. I can take forever-evernote at his/her word that the vertical/horizontal vs reminders tradeoff was necessitated by timeliness factor, but don't understand what the actual tradeoff was, and do hope that they do revisit this (I'd be surprised if they weren't already, behind the scenes).

@johnmarshall4 : I missed your reply to me earlier, re: analytics; sorry about that. It's a fair point, and I believe (based on a recollection of a comment by Dave Engberg a while ago) that Evernote does engage in analytics, though to what granularity I don't know. One thing analytics cannot capture, though, is features that haven't appeared in public yet, like the removal of horizontal list view in favor of the new vertical/reminders view that's the problem here. Whether they do usability testing behind the scenes I cannot say, so (to my point about the lack of beta above), I think that they dropped the ball on that one.

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I'm a premium member as well and I agree we all need horizontal view.  

 

Political parties say that for every 1 written complaint you can be sure there are at least 100 others who haven't bothered complaining.  So at that rate there's already at least 15,000 unhappy people that I can put my finger on based on 150 complaints just in this forum alone. And that's just from this forum - let alone whatever your poor support people are dealing with in your 'normal' support channel.

 

As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

 

And making a major usability change like this without a beta?  Asking in your forums is great to get some feedback - but most of your avid users are not computer programmer junkies who watch your software forums religiously.  They are normal people who have lives enjoying whatever they enjoy doing. 

 

Bottom line - major stuff up here guys.  Please fix this quickly otherwise a lot of people, including myself will need to explore other options.  My loyalty is with you so this is where I would rather stay, but from the 'finality' of the comments I've read here, I really hope you listen to your customers and please fix this.  You've just made it totally user-unfriendly in my book.

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Hi Evernote Employees,

 

I'm a dedicated premium user with almost 12k notes. Center of my digital life on OS X, iphone, ipad, and webapp on linux.

 

Please bring back the OS X horizontal list view. I rely on it for note sorting by attributes and I really do need the width. Can't hide the sidebar: I frequently use shortcuts there and I drag notes to tags as a way of tagging quickly. 

 

 I <3 Evernote and am looking forward to its continued success and evolution. This was a learning experience for the devs and users, and that's OK. Keep up the great work, and thanks for the engagement in the forums.

 

best,

Stephen

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Paid User here adding a vote for the return of Horizontal View

 

It's essential to my workflow.

 

 

I hope that until an updated version with Horizontal View is released I can use an old version from Time Machine.

 

 

 

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  • Level 5*

As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.
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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

I think you missed the point.  I was saying that I personally don't use it as a todo list.  I wasn't saying that people don't want it.  Anyway dont take things out of context here.  The problem here is that you guys have made a problem for a lot of people by changing the core of your software and it seems like you are saying this change is permanent because of a decision you made to accomodate a new feature.  Sure go and include new features.  Just don't break your core program to accomodate new features.  And you have.  If you can't include new features without breaking a major feature then either work out a way or don't include it.  You're killing off your core.

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Horizontal!  I need to see Create Date, Update Date, title, notebook and tags all at a glance.  Clearly other people do too.

I do not see how adding Reminders requires only one view.

Suddenly you took that away.  If you're going to poll people, especially people who pay, send an email!

Do you remember Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy, where they posted plans for construction of a new freeway in the basement, third level down, locked filing cabinet?  Same thing.

Please please bring it back.  Keep the vertical view, keep the reminders, and bring back the horizontal view for people who are serious researchers, organizers, etc.

Thanks!

 

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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

 

The question is how did these become mutually exclusive?  Did the people asking for Reminders also say "get rid of horizontal views"?  It's a simple screen real estate problem.

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I noticed when I installed 5.1.3 that it "updated" my database.  Has anyone successfully downgraded to 5.0.7 with a database that has been "updated" by 5.1.3?  Or was it necessary to use an old database backup?

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  • Level 5*

That for me seems to be the strangest part of this, why does adding reminders mean that you can't have a horizontal list? If it's a UI issue, well then just figure it out before you release the update, don't remove a pretty unrelated and useful feature. 

 

The prevailing "we know best" attitude fails again I'm afraid.

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Another vote in favor of bringing back horizontal view.

 

Why did horizontal view have to go anyway? I now understand that there was a forum post asking for feedback on horizontal view, but when it comes to features, why in the world should it ever be an either/or proposition? That would be like Microsoft asking Word users if they preferred boldface or italics because they can't have both!

 

I presume after this amount of feedback that horizontal view will be returning soon, but does anyone know if it's possible to downgrade to the prior release until this is fixed? I don't really need to be reminded to take notes (or whatever GTD things people do with Evernote), but I do need to be able to write them!

 

I'm on a Mac and I have an older version available on my laptop. I'm just worried that the update changed the database so that the old version won't work anymore.

 

Edit: Actually, I guess I could just wipe the entire thing and download my entire database from evernote's server into the old version.

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i'd say this thread has now become pointless. Clearly no-one from Evernote wants to comment. The views are not being listened to, and some utterly inane responses are being made by the Evangelists. I notice they are apparently evangelists for the product and not for the actual users. Any product is NOTHING without users, whether paid-up or free level. For some reason certain verticalers are sticking by the idea that you need to drop a quick email to the product vendor every few days to check that they understand you like base functionality just in case they were thinking of removing it, and apparently they genuinely do this all the time. I'd say this is complete rubbish, and they don't do this at all. A certain portion of the supplier/consumer relationship is TRUST. A consumer trusts a supplier to do the right thing for their interests. You don't need to constantly check, feed-back, comment, ensure. You buy into a product because you believe it is the right thing for you and your needs. There is responsibility on the behalf of the supplier that they don't change something so fundamental that it renders it undesirable to your loyal customer base (and there are some real loyals voicing negative opinion in this thread). Have you guys ever heard of the "new coke" fiasco in the mid 80s? Consumers of coke didn't feel they needed to constantly tell coca cola that they liked their product and please dont change it, because they trusted the brand and most importantly that the company understood the needs of the consumers; essentially what the consumers liked about the product without having to gather opinion constantly. They changed it, there was a massive backlash, they had to change it back; costing millions. Clearly Evernote is nothing compared to that, but if you make a fundamental change then you can't expect it to go well. If you posted a piddly little message or forum post then you NEED to understand that nearly all users of any product don't hang around the product forums AND if you make a stupid mistake then you are going to get complaints - LOTS of them. Have you seen how many posters in this thread have made their first ever post in it? What does that say? 

 

You can't defend this change. You can't say the users are wrong. You can't say users had the chance to give their views. 

 

If Evernote genuinely think they did all they could, or that this change should have gone ahead or that this is an acceptable way to handle the discussion that it has now created, then they know nothing about software development, stakeholder engagement, product management, usability design or customer service. 

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  • Level 5*

i'd say this thread has now become pointless. Clearly no-one from Evernote wants to comment. The views are not being listened to, and some utterly inane responses are being made by the Evangelists. I notice they are apparently evangelists for the product and not for the actual users. Any product is NOTHING without users, whether paid-up or free level. For some reason certain verticalers are sticking by the idea that you need to drop a quick email to the product vendor every few days to check that they understand you like base functionality just in case they were thinking of removing it, and apparently they genuinely do this all the time. I'd say this is complete rubbish, and they don't do this at all. A certain portion of the supplier/consumer relationship is TRUST. A consumer trusts a supplier to do the right thing for their interests. You don't need to constantly check, feed-back, comment, ensure. You buy into a product because you believe it is the right thing for you and your needs. There is responsibility on the behalf of the supplier that they don't change something so fundamental that it renders it undesirable to your loyal customer base (and there are some real loyals voicing negative opinion in this thread). Have you guys ever heard of the "new coke" fiasco in the mid 80s? Consumers of coke didn't feel they needed to constantly tell coca cola that they liked their product and please dont change it, because they trusted the brand and most importantly that the company understood the needs of the consumers; essentially what the consumers liked about the product without having to gather opinion constantly. They changed it, there was a massive backlash, they had to change it back; costing millions. Clearly Evernote is nothing compared to that, but if you make a fundamental change then you can't expect it to go well. If you posted a piddly little message or forum post then you NEED to understand that nearly all users of any product don't hang around the product forums AND if you make a stupid mistake then you are going to get complaints - LOTS of them. Have you seen how many posters in this thread have made their first ever post in it? What does that say? 

 

You can't defend this change. You can't say the users are wrong. You can't say users had the chance to give their views. 

 

If Evernote genuinely think they did all they could, or that this change should have gone ahead or that this is an acceptable way to handle the discussion that it has now created, then they know nothing about software development, stakeholder engagement, product management, usability design or customer service. 

 

(1) Me

You have mischaracterized my comments again. I believe my opinions are neither "idiotic" nor "inane," but I encourage other users to read some of my posts to see what I have actually said. Here are a couple of posts, including a previous response to you.

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/page-5#entry207311

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/page-6#entry207548

 

(2) Evangelists, Developers, and Users

The Evangelists, like the developers and users, are not part of the Borg collective. We've got individual opinions that often differ from one another, and the notion that Evernote doesn't listen to users (which ones?) is untenable. They clearly do, or the vertical view, reminders, and any number of other features wouldn't have been added in the first place. Many users have been asking for a vertical view for years, due dates have been requested for even longer, and there are plenty of users who don't care about either issue. Developers have to balance a lot of factors, some of which we cannot know. I disagree with all kinds of things they do, and I've even said so in this thread, but that doesn't mean they are incompetent. It simply means we disagree. 

 

(3) Evernote is Commenting

The developers have already responded in this thread. Please see the posts below, and remember that besides being Memorial Day weekend in the US, it is unrealistic to expect immediate decisions about such a major issue. Surely, we would all like Evernote to sit down, meet, talk it over, and reach a decision that is best for all of the users rather than leaping onto a forum and posting ad hoc changes to the roadmap. In addition, like most companies, Evernote does not telegraph what it will do beforehand, so though we might see them make a statement at some point about whether the horizontal view will be added, I wouldn't expect it. 

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/?p=206939

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/page-2#entry207005

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Note to EN:

 

1)  User testing.  If you want to avoid these kinds of problems, run some focus groups with the UI concepts, and the trade offs you're considering, before you write a line of code.  This is standard procedure at most high volume software companies.  You guys are acting like total amateurs to test these ideas at release time.

 

2) If you want to ask users, send email to a random (emphasize random which anyone who took Stat 101 would know) selection of Premium customers and ask them to respond to ideas.

 

Note to my fellow users:

 

1)  EN must now go through the techie equivalent of the Kubler-Ross Five stages of grieving - a) denial, B) anger, c) bargaining, d) depression, e) acceptance - as far as I can tell they are still in denial.

 

2)  When they do get to acceptance they are not going to fix this quickly.  They have already said that they couldn't figure out how to do Reminders and Horizontal at the same time.  They can't back away from Reminders, that bell has been rung.  Now they have to figure out how to do what they could not figure out how to do earlier - Reminders AND Horizontal displays.  It's going to take time.  My guess is 2-3 months minimum.

 

I have not tested this yet, but I'm guessing that to downgrade we need to blow away the local database, install 5.07, and then rebuild the local database from the EN cloud.  Anything else probably risks the integrity of the local database.  EN is not going to help with this because they don't want to acknowledge their is a problem or suggest that downgrading is the solution.

 

There are a lot of comments here.  If you want to have an impact on EN, those comments have to reach the general market, not be confined to this forum.  I'm a Mac user so that means posting feedback at the AppStore.

 

Bottom line, this will not be fixed quickly, if at all.  That said, I hope EN will jump into this forum on Tuesday with better news.  If not, I think we can safely assume that their silence is an indication that they plan to just "weather the storm", not reinstate horizontal views.

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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

 

The question is how did these become mutually exclusive?  Did the people asking for Reminders also say "get rid of horizontal views"?  It's a simple screen real estate problem.

I've actually already asked that question or wondered about it more than once in this topic. It's not my call and the explanation offered was unclear. I'm just following ozmark's system for determining interest in a feature by counting posts in the forum that call for that feature, and letting you know that there is at interest at least on the same order of magnitude for reminder-like functionality as there is for horizontal list view, based on post count. Whether that system is accurate or good at figuring out relative interest between two different (but possibly related, due to use of screen space) features is anyone's guess.

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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

 

The question is how did these become mutually exclusive?  Did the people asking for Reminders also say "get rid of horizontal views"?  It's a simple screen real estate problem.

I've actually already asked that question or wondered about it more than once in this topic. It's not my call and the explanation offered was unclear. I'm just following ozmark's system for determining interest in a feature by counting posts in the forum that call for that feature, and letting you know that there is at interest at least on the same order of magnitude for reminder-like functionality as there is for horizontal list view, based on post count. Whether that system is accurate or good at figuring out relative interest between two different (but possibly related, due to use of screen space) features is anyone's guess.

Hey I was using a valid political measurement system of determining the veracity of COMPLAINTS, not a method of determining the number of interested people wanting a software feature.  We're not asking for a feature here.  We're all BITTERLY COMPLAINING.  And as such, I said you could easily apply the political 'rule of thumb' with complaints that one written complaint is worth at least 100 complaints since most people don't bother to complain - they just leave quietly and tell everyone how bad you've become behind your back.

 

So as I've already said, stop taking my comments out of context.

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Normally I never complain about software, but I have specially created this account to post my vote:

Paid User here adding a vote for the return of Horizontal View

 

My Premium subscription will expire within a few days, and I might not renew it until this is fixed.

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Not only do I prefer horizontal view, I really need the columns with information (sync status, notebook, etc) back. Now, is there a way to display those?

 

you can enable them by right clicking the column headers, however every column you add eats further into your real estate, and ultimately your note display area. The vertical list just doesn't work.

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  • Level 5*

First, let me say that I am a long-time Evernote premium user. In general, I love the product and have changed my daily workflow to make good use of Evernote many times a day. I has really helped me move towards a paperless world.
.

The prevailing "we know best" attitude fails again I'm afraid.

 
 

Note to EN:
 
1)  User testing.  If you want to avoid these kinds of problems, run some focus groups with the UI concepts, and the trade offs you're considering, before you write a line of code.  This is standard procedure at most high volume software companies.  You guys are acting like total amateurs to test these ideas at release time.
 
2) If you want to ask users, send email to a random (emphasize random which anyone who took Stat 101 would know) selection of Premium customers and ask them to respond to ideas.

 
Metrodon hit the nail on the head.  Evernote design changes, and their arguments for these changes, continue to show that they do in fact believe that they ALWAYS know best, and that their users will just have to learn to adapt to these changes.
 
AFAIK, Evernote does not use focus groups or anyone external in evaluating design decisions.  The Evernote CEO, Phil Libin, has stated numerous times that "we design our software for ourselves."  Most recently Evernote senior manager Heather rationalized the major UI changes made with Skitch 2.0, EN Mac 5.0, and iOS 5.0 as being good and proper even though there was a large outcry from the users against these UI changes.

 

Boatguy, I wish Evernote would take your advice.  Evern though it is sound advice employed by many software developers, I doubt they will because they are just too arrogant.  When you believe that you are way smarter than everyone else, you tend to discard complaints as coming from ignorant people who just don't get it.

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I believe that Evernote do some focus panel testing, there is also a beta program that pretty much anyone can join. 

 

But, there is an undoubted arrogance about their methodology. Let's face it Skitch was an embarrassing disaster, EN 5 on iOS is in my opinion a UI and usability mess and Mac 5.0 was released with some functionality removed from the previous version despite many complaints during the beta process, which like Skitch had to be put back in. I would imagine that EN 5 on Windows will result in a lot of noise, a great deal of this will just be because people don't like change, but undoubtedly there will be UI and functionality changes that anger existing users.

 

They will point to increased user numbers and maybe even more Premium accounts and this is their reason for being there, but if you are a long time user then there is an ongoing risk that your use case could be broken at any time and that's quite scary.  

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Yes, please bring this back. I was able to keep track of what had synced that way, too. Doesn't look like you can tell with current list view.

 

Next time I'll read the last page instead of just the first few. Thanks!!

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Thanks, guys! Was just about to spend a few hours backing up and rolling back to get my horizontal list view back, so the release's timing couldn't have been better. Way to turn around a solution. (Wish I'd known to stop worrying and that you were on the case, but done = good. Thanks tons.) 

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Can someone point me in the direction of how to downgrade back to 5.0.7 so I can get my horizontal view back???

 

I found 5.0. here and installed it. Seems to have worked fine to go from 5.1x back to 5.0.7. But proceed at your own risk. 

 

mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

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Maybe they are trying to 'ween' us off the horizontal view? Does anyone know if the Windows client defaults to Horizontal or Vertical on a new install? I'm just curious.

 

Just did a little test and installed Evernote for Windows 4.6.6 via CrossOver (not recommendable, but sufficient for this test). It opens in snippet view, but the default list view is horizontal view.

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I am one of the ones that loves the new vertical view and requested it, however I never dreamed it meant users who preferred horizontal view would have to lose that, and wish they hadn't.

 

This

 

As GM said "When the bell tolls for one feature, it tolls for them all!"

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New%20coke.jpg

 

 

"The story of "new Coke" is widely recalled, but the context is often forgotten. In 1985, The Coca-Cola Company's share lead over its chief competitor, in its flagship market, with its flagship product, had been slowly slipping for 15 consecutive years. The cola category in general was lethargic. Consumer preference for Coca-Cola was dipping, as was consumer awareness. That changed, of course, in the summer of 1985 as the consumer outcry over "new Coke" was replaced by consumer affection for Coca-Cola classic.

The fabled secret formula for Coca-Cola was changed, adopting a formula preferred in taste tests of nearly 200,000 consumers. What these tests didn't show, of course, was the bond consumers felt with their Coca-Cola — something they didn't want anyone, including The Coca-Cola Company, tampering with..."

 

EN, the story is here.  Y'all might want to read it because it doesn't look like you were around to remember it.

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For those needing to wind back on their mac - here's how you do it:

 

 


1. Quit Evernote from the elephant icon in the Menu Bar


2. Drag the Evernote application to the system Trash


3. Reboot your Mac


Go to the following link to install version 5.0.7

http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/3330/


When you open the download, make sure to drag the Evernote icon into the Applications folder instead of running it from within the installer package.

 

 

NOTE TO EVERNOTE STAFF:  Please make sure you add 'returned horizontal view' in the first few lines of your upgrade notes because I wont be upgrading until I see you have fixed this error in judgement. :(

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Hi everyone,

Thank you all SO much for weighing in. Your feedback matters a tremendous amount. I can't promise anything either way, but your comments *are* being read by Evernote employees. We don't make a decision like this lightly so please bear with us while collect information.

Thanks again.

 

Thank you for posting Jack.

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New%20coke.jpg

 

 

"The story of "new Coke" is widely recalled, but the context is often forgotten. In 1985, The Coca-Cola Company's share lead over its chief competitor, in its flagship market, with its flagship product, had been slowly slipping for 15 consecutive years. The cola category in general was lethargic. Consumer preference for Coca-Cola was dipping, as was consumer awareness. That changed, of course, in the summer of 1985 as the consumer outcry over "new Coke" was replaced by consumer affection for Coca-Cola classic.

The fabled secret formula for Coca-Cola was changed, adopting a formula preferred in taste tests of nearly 200,000 consumers. What these tests didn't show, of course, was the bond consumers felt with their Coca-Cola — something they didn't want anyone, including The Coca-Cola Company, tampering with..."

 

EN, the story is here.  Y'all might want to read it because it doesn't look like you were around to remember it.

 

Thanks for that wikipedia copy/paste, however 'y'all' haven't said anything different there really. Coca cola didn't survey their customer attitudes properly before making a sweeping change (although far be it for me to tell an American about calorific fizzy drinks). A large survey doesn't mean they asked the right questions, and understood the answers properly. Evernote may have asked the right questions, although it seems very few people remember being asked, so I would say they didn't ask in the right way, and only asked a small subset of the user-base.

 

You could say the note-taking market is saturated, because how many note-taking apps do people need... and maybe that's why Evernote have tried to differentiate themselves with this peripheral functionality that most people will never use (I feel sure). I don't think this vertical note fiasco highlights militant brand loyalty however, but what it does highlight is that people expect core things about the product to be the same, and that the rest will evolve and improve around that core. 

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Recently upgraded to premium for academic data and was thrilled. I was considering going premium for my business account too, especially with easy switching available. 

 

The loss of the horizontal view is a game-changer for me. I won't go premium on my second account and will likely migrate my academic data elsewhere. I just need more viewing space on my laptop and simply don't need reminders. It's rather difficult (perhaps only for me) to write extensively in such a narrow field; jacks my work-flow.

 

Please consider bringing it back.

 

Cheers.

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In addition to the issues already mentioned in this tread (wasted screen space, content now too narrow, etc) I just discovered another issue... search results.  Before (with horizontal view) when I would search I'd get a set of pages back where I could see the title, date, notebook, etc. Now (because of the narrow list columns) I just see the first 3 or 4 words of the title which is almost useless.

 

PLEASE bring back the horizontal view, or unfortunately I (like many other paying premium members) and going to have to downgrade to a previous version.

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Please bring back the horizontal view.  I have a 13" laptop screen and (like many other paying premium members) will have to downgrade to a previous version for EN to be usable on a daily basis.  I appreciate the work on the reminders and do believe they will be a valuable feature to me once I can integrate into my workflow; however, if I can't use EN then reminders really don't help.

 

Thank you.

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Thank goodness for Time Machine. Just reverted to Friday's backup  of 5.0.7. Phew.

 

A quick anecdote: I used to go to a bagel shop in Brooklyn. It was a really good bagel shop. They always had a line out the door on weekend mornings, but everyone waited patiently in line, because the product was worth it. One day, the owners decided that bagels weren't enough, and that they had to compete for a bigger breakfast crowd. They closed for a couple weeks, remodeled, and reopened with a full breakfast menu. Guess what? They went out of business because nobody needed yet another breakfast joint. There was demand for bagels and coffee, not breakfast. 

 

The moral of the story: It's Evernote, not EverReminder.

 

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Count me as another vote for bringing it back (at the very least as an OPTION).

 

I use EN on a small-ish laptop and really need to be able to see longer titles and multiple columns. I know it's possible to see other columns in vertical view, but I don't want to be constantly turning them on and off - I want them all at the same time. Even Title + Updates + Tags, the bare minimum I need, takes up way too much screen space.

 

Also - I like the idea of reminders. Haven't used them yet, but nice idea. I get that they won't necessarily look as good in horizontal list view, but please let that be my problem and give me the option.

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A quick anecdote: I used to go to a bagel shop in Brooklyn. It was a really good bagel shop. They always had a line out the door on weekend mornings, but everyone waited patiently in line, because the product was worth it. One day, the owners decided that bagels weren't enough, and that they had to compete for a bigger breakfast crowd. They closed for a couple weeks, remodeled, and reopened with a full breakfast menu. Guess what? They went out of business because nobody needed yet another breakfast joint. There was demand for bagels and coffee, not breakfast. 

 

The moral of the story: It's Evernote, not EverReminder.

.

I understand your point, which is the potential downfall of a product/service when it changes it's basic, core function.

 

The problem, IMO, with Evernote is NOT that they added Reminders, or a Vertical List, but rather the ISSUE is:

  1. The design of the new features
  2. The removal of the Horizontal List

Had they not removed the Horizontal List, I doubt many would have complained.

 

There are good, solid, use cases for BOTH a Horizontal List and a Vertical List.  The fact that Evernote design team cannot easily see this without large numbers of users proclaiming their need is somewhat disturbing.  Frankly, it seems quite obvious to me.  :-)

 

Just so those interested in list views understand, there have been a sizable number of users in these forums that have been requesting a Vertical List for well over 3 years.  See REQUEST: Pure vertical list view for one example.

 

There have also been a large number of users requesting a "Due Date" for many years.

 

But in neither case did anyone contemplate that this would mean the removal of the long-standing Horizontal List view.  :(

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Thanks for that wikipedia copy/paste, however 'y'all' haven't said anything different there really.

 

Exactly the point, except that the outcome hasn't been decided which is why they need to read the history and follow suit.

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there seems to be some confusion of the term 'use case'. Horizontal and vertical lists are not different use cases - they are usability options. You offer these options to work in the way the users are most comfortable working when undertaking use cases e.g. creating a note, browsing for a note, searching for a note, amending a note. In fact, removing this usability option affects ALL use cases when working with notes, for a certain subset of users (represented in the growing list of complainants in this thread). That's why people are complaining. 

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Where were you all when Evernote asked on these forums to hear from horizontal list view aficionados!?

Well, what's done is done. The horizontal view is gone. Personally, I disliked the horizontal view myself, but I can see the use case, and it seems better to have more options rather than less.

 

Where were we? We were earning a living that's where! The tone of this comment is just not good enough for an Evernote official (EvernoteEvangelist looks official so I'm assuming it is).

 

I'm a paying user. I expect a service I buy to get better, not worse.

 

It is impossible to make an argument that a list that can only show one and a half piece of data is better than a list that could show all the relevant data for a note. List view allowed me to sort by title, date created or date last edited depending on my needs. Evernote already has a million and one fluff views that show no data, the list view was the one and only powerful view the app supported, and now that too has been turned into useless fluff. This is categorically a reduction in functionality a DOWNGRADE. There is an aesthetics argument too, but vital functionality is GONE - it is not moved, it is GONE.

 

I really get the impression Evernote don't care about power users.

 

Evernote has lost the ability to see all the data about notes in a single sensible place.

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I love the comparative simplicity of the same issue on the Windows side. @MadKnickers writes in distraught about the vertical view and how to get the horizontal back and @mrossk replies nonchalantly "Ctrl-Shift-F5". And that's all there was to it.

(http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29528-help-my-panel-layout-has-changed-how/)

Please let the option of switching on the Mac be as simple!

 

You mean it's only us Mac users who are getting such a rotten deal from this upgrade?

 

HOW is that either fair or acceptable?

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I love the comparative simplicity of the same issue on the Windows side. @MadKnickers writes in distraught about the vertical view and how to get the horizontal back and @mrossk replies nonchalantly "Ctrl-Shift-F5". And that's all there was to it.

(http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29528-help-my-panel-layout-has-changed-how/)

Please let the option of switching on the Mac be as simple!

 

You mean it's only us Mac users who are getting such a rotten deal from this upgrade?

 

HOW is that either fair or acceptable?

Hi. Actually, the apps are run by different teams with different upgrade schedules. I don't know if it is fair or acceptable, but this is how it works. There are pros and cons. The Windows app has long had a bunch of nice features like the vertical list view, and I think we Mac users have a great deal with our new vertical list view.

What the Windows app lacks right now is the Reminders, and it has been a long time since it was last overhauled, so I expect a lot of tough decisions are being made about what to cull and what to keep. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

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The Windows app has long had a bunch of nice features like the vertical list view, and I think we Mac users have a great deal with our new vertical list view.

 

If the new view on the Mac is like the list view on Windows, then I honestly don't know why people are so upset!  That's the view I use the most often!  When you use descriptive titles, it's so much easier to find the note you're looking for with the Windows list view. 

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Another vote (plea) for horizontal view. I've used Evernote since 2008 and have been a premium user since it was available. Vertical list view is a ridiculous waste of screen space on my laptop. For all other reasons articulated in this thread, please bring it back.

 

I also have downgraded to 5.0.7 and will hold off on future upgrades until horizontal list view returns.

 

-Jeff

 

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The Windows app has long had a bunch of nice features like the vertical list view, and I think we Mac users have a great deal with our new vertical list view.

 

If the new view on the Mac is like the list view on Windows, then I honestly don't know why people are so upset!  That's the view I use the most often!  When you use descriptive titles, it's so much easier to find the note you're looking for with the Windows list view.

It's not so much about the vertical view, but about losing the horizontal one in the process. I also think some people probably don't realize that it is quite customizable (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106).
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I want to speak up on the side of binging back the horizontal view.  I've always used Evernote in this way and it made evernote much easier to use side-by-side.  There were very few times where I only wanted to see Evernote on the screen.  Most of the time i'm taking notes about something so I have a browser or PDF open on one half of the screen and Evernote on the other.  This change breaks that workflow.  :-(

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