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(Archived) View missing in 5.1.1


Bradley Chambers

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

There was nothing in that post that indicated the merest possibility that a horizontal list view would have to give way to a vertical list view. I don't think anyone in their wildest imagination thought this would ever happen. Unless there was some other post with a poll, I missed.

 

I can assure you my own post had been vigorously defending the horizontal list view if I had thought its life was on stake. I feel confident, I am not alone.

 

By the way, I fail to see how reminders have anything to do with the lists orientation. Care to elaborate on that?

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  • Level 5*

i'd say this thread has now become pointless. Clearly no-one from Evernote wants to comment. The views are not being listened to, and some utterly inane responses are being made by the Evangelists. I notice they are apparently evangelists for the product and not for the actual users. Any product is NOTHING without users, whether paid-up or free level. For some reason certain verticalers are sticking by the idea that you need to drop a quick email to the product vendor every few days to check that they understand you like base functionality just in case they were thinking of removing it, and apparently they genuinely do this all the time. I'd say this is complete rubbish, and they don't do this at all. A certain portion of the supplier/consumer relationship is TRUST. A consumer trusts a supplier to do the right thing for their interests. You don't need to constantly check, feed-back, comment, ensure. You buy into a product because you believe it is the right thing for you and your needs. There is responsibility on the behalf of the supplier that they don't change something so fundamental that it renders it undesirable to your loyal customer base (and there are some real loyals voicing negative opinion in this thread). Have you guys ever heard of the "new coke" fiasco in the mid 80s? Consumers of coke didn't feel they needed to constantly tell coca cola that they liked their product and please dont change it, because they trusted the brand and most importantly that the company understood the needs of the consumers; essentially what the consumers liked about the product without having to gather opinion constantly. They changed it, there was a massive backlash, they had to change it back; costing millions. Clearly Evernote is nothing compared to that, but if you make a fundamental change then you can't expect it to go well. If you posted a piddly little message or forum post then you NEED to understand that nearly all users of any product don't hang around the product forums AND if you make a stupid mistake then you are going to get complaints - LOTS of them. Have you seen how many posters in this thread have made their first ever post in it? What does that say? 

 

You can't defend this change. You can't say the users are wrong. You can't say users had the chance to give their views. 

 

If Evernote genuinely think they did all they could, or that this change should have gone ahead or that this is an acceptable way to handle the discussion that it has now created, then they know nothing about software development, stakeholder engagement, product management, usability design or customer service. 

 

(1) Me

You have mischaracterized my comments again. I believe my opinions are neither "idiotic" nor "inane," but I encourage other users to read some of my posts to see what I have actually said. Here are a couple of posts, including a previous response to you.

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/page-5#entry207311

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/page-6#entry207548

 

(2) Evangelists, Developers, and Users

The Evangelists, like the developers and users, are not part of the Borg collective. We've got individual opinions that often differ from one another, and the notion that Evernote doesn't listen to users (which ones?) is untenable. They clearly do, or the vertical view, reminders, and any number of other features wouldn't have been added in the first place. Many users have been asking for a vertical view for years, due dates have been requested for even longer, and there are plenty of users who don't care about either issue. Developers have to balance a lot of factors, some of which we cannot know. I disagree with all kinds of things they do, and I've even said so in this thread, but that doesn't mean they are incompetent. It simply means we disagree. 

 

(3) Evernote is Commenting

The developers have already responded in this thread. Please see the posts below, and remember that besides being Memorial Day weekend in the US, it is unrealistic to expect immediate decisions about such a major issue. Surely, we would all like Evernote to sit down, meet, talk it over, and reach a decision that is best for all of the users rather than leaping onto a forum and posting ad hoc changes to the roadmap. In addition, like most companies, Evernote does not telegraph what it will do beforehand, so though we might see them make a statement at some point about whether the horizontal view will be added, I wouldn't expect it. 

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/?p=206939

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38283-view-missing-in-511/page-2#entry207005

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I agree that the horizontal view needs to be added back as an option.  With that view missing the screen real estate has been negatively changed and it limits the number of fields you can see on the screen at the same time.  Thank you.

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  • Level 5*

A quick anecdote: I used to go to a bagel shop in Brooklyn. It was a really good bagel shop. They always had a line out the door on weekend mornings, but everyone waited patiently in line, because the product was worth it. One day, the owners decided that bagels weren't enough, and that they had to compete for a bigger breakfast crowd. They closed for a couple weeks, remodeled, and reopened with a full breakfast menu. Guess what? They went out of business because nobody needed yet another breakfast joint. There was demand for bagels and coffee, not breakfast. 

 

The moral of the story: It's Evernote, not EverReminder.

.

I understand your point, which is the potential downfall of a product/service when it changes it's basic, core function.

 

The problem, IMO, with Evernote is NOT that they added Reminders, or a Vertical List, but rather the ISSUE is:

  1. The design of the new features
  2. The removal of the Horizontal List

Had they not removed the Horizontal List, I doubt many would have complained.

 

There are good, solid, use cases for BOTH a Horizontal List and a Vertical List.  The fact that Evernote design team cannot easily see this without large numbers of users proclaiming their need is somewhat disturbing.  Frankly, it seems quite obvious to me.  :-)

 

Just so those interested in list views understand, there have been a sizable number of users in these forums that have been requesting a Vertical List for well over 3 years.  See REQUEST: Pure vertical list view for one example.

 

There have also been a large number of users requesting a "Due Date" for many years.

 

But in neither case did anyone contemplate that this would mean the removal of the long-standing Horizontal List view.  :(

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Posted · Hidden by jefito, April 18, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by jefito, April 18, 2014 - No reason given

Hi all forum readers (and Evernote):

 

Here is a thread from a ticket that I created when this upgrade first happened, before I discovered this forum. As you can see below, they appear to have made a commitment to bringing us full configurability. Now all we need is a date, or better yet, the real thing.....

 

Hello chrislumb,

Currently our development team is reviewing the possibility of bringing back the horizontal display or adding the ability for user to select a display view.
Either one will be available in a future release but unfortunately we don't have an estimated time for this.

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

Thank you.

Tania Iniguez
Evernote Support

 

chrislumb - Jun 01


Thanks for the 'canned' note. What are you going to do about this issue -
can you confirm when you will be bringing horizontal lists back again? Or
if you are not going to, can you confirm that too so I can get busy finding
another note taking app?

 

Thanks

Chris

Tania Iniguez - May 26


Thank you for providing this feedback on Evernote.
We really appreciate you taking the time to send us your feedback. Your comments and suggestions will help us to enhance Evernote and serve you better.
We will be sure to pass on the information you've provided to the product development team for discussion.

 

Thank you.

chrislumb - May 26


Hey guys, Your new screen formatting to show more real estate for lists and less for a current note is a bad idea.

 

This is not an improvement: I don't want my screen to be taken up by a long list of notes, most of which are not relevant to the task at hand.

How can I get my old version back? Or, when can you provide broader user configuration of screen layout?

Come on...let's get this back in shape again. Thanks Evernote team - your product is otherwise excellent.

 

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Thank you, Evernote folks!   :)

 

I feel great about having horizontal list view back, and I feel even better about how quickly this was resolved.  

 

I love and use Evernote every single day, on all my devices, and feel even better about that now.

 

Thank you again!

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Yes, please give back the option for the horizontal list. I have billions of programs for reminders, but only ONE I use for my notes. I NEED the horizontal list. Thanks.

And let me add to my own post... I am a PAID user as well, and this problem is making me much less likely to want to keep doing that...

Ditto. I'm sure many of the happy users are not frequenting the forum enough to see that post. That's the nature of product forums, they are mostly populated by people with issues and the evangelists that discuss those issues.

 

Also, as a software architect myself, I am having a hard time understanding how a reminders feature would require the removal of a horizontal display. If it does, you may be trying to streamline things a bit too much. It's always a tricky balance figuring out where to spend your time, but I strongly disagree with your decision in this case. At the risk of sounding overly dramatic, the absence of the horizontal layout (and the way in which it disappeared without warning) will likely lead to my departure from evernote.

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We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 


 


Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa?


_______________


 


To answer this question, I vote keep Horizontal List View over Reminders. I don't understand why it's one or the other but if it comes down to a choice, I find the Horizontal List View to be more important than Reminders. In fact, I just downgraded. Also, the Horizontal List View font was much easier to read than it is in the Vertical List View. Why was the background color changed? In 5.0.7 the background was alternating white and very light blue stripes. The type letter spacing was more open, now it's kerned very tightly and much harder to read. It would really be helpful, in the future, if you'd mention what features have been eliminated as well as what's been added in the "what's new" so users can decide whether to upgrade or not.


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Thanks for that wikipedia copy/paste, however 'y'all' haven't said anything different there really.

 

Exactly the point, except that the outcome hasn't been decided which is why they need to read the history and follow suit.

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I also would like the old view back. As someone who works with Evernote only taking up half of my horizontal screen the new view is just not useable at all. Will be reverting back to the older version until this is fixed.

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I have a two monitor setup, but I rotated one widescreen display 90 degrees so I can see all of my notes in one screen or peruse documents without having to scroll needlessly. A vertically stacked arrangement in Evernote worked very well with this display arrangement. 

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

I had noticed the horizontal view removal and at first I was upset, until I actually tried out the reminders feature, and see that how it's implemented the vertical list view makes more sense. I use evernote everyday and truly need it to get my work done and keep my life sorted, so additional features versus getting used to a slight design change are definitely a plus as far as I'm concerned. I've decided to switch my Mail.app view to vertical as well, to eliminate some of the disconnect and jarring of switching between the apps and I find that it's making the change much easier.

 

Thanks a lot!

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bring back horizontal list view. For my primary use of Evernote (GTD, based on "The Secret Weapon" system), the new vertical only list view is MUCH less useful.

 

I am not advocating ditching the vertical view-- I understand it may work better for others. One of the great strengths/beauties of EN is that it can be used in so many completely different kinds of ways. Especially in a program like this, users should be able to choose options and customize to suit their way of working. "One size fits all" is bad UI design.

 

Re the issue above of "why didn't you speak up earlier when we posted about verical vs horizontal list view"-- (1) I suspect there are lots of users who really depend on EN but don't spend time hanging out on these forums. I look at the forums when I have something specific I need, not otherwise. So, posting on a forum only reaches a subset of users-- it's not a representative poll. (2) From what I've found looking back, nobody ever said "we're considering a non-optional switch from horizontal-only to vertical-only view; how would this affect you?"

 

So-- please give users the option of choosing between the layouts for list view.

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there seems to be some confusion of the term 'use case'. Horizontal and vertical lists are not different use cases - they are usability options. You offer these options to work in the way the users are most comfortable working when undertaking use cases e.g. creating a note, browsing for a note, searching for a note, amending a note. In fact, removing this usability option affects ALL use cases when working with notes, for a certain subset of users (represented in the growing list of complainants in this thread). That's why people are complaining. 

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EN:  You have posed this as we can have a horizontal view, or Reminders.  Then give us the choice.  I for one, and I suspect many on this forum, prefer to have Horizontal views and no Reminders.  So give us an older version (and something to convert the database backwards), or a switch to enable Horizontal while disabling Reminders (since the UI designers can't apparently figure out how to have both) and we'll shut up and go away.

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Note to EN:

 

1)  User testing.  If you want to avoid these kinds of problems, run some focus groups with the UI concepts, and the trade offs you're considering, before you write a line of code.  This is standard procedure at most high volume software companies.  You guys are acting like total amateurs to test these ideas at release time.

 

2) If you want to ask users, send email to a random (emphasize random which anyone who took Stat 101 would know) selection of Premium customers and ask them to respond to ideas.

 

Note to my fellow users:

 

1)  EN must now go through the techie equivalent of the Kubler-Ross Five stages of grieving - a) denial, B) anger, c) bargaining, d) depression, e) acceptance - as far as I can tell they are still in denial.

 

2)  When they do get to acceptance they are not going to fix this quickly.  They have already said that they couldn't figure out how to do Reminders and Horizontal at the same time.  They can't back away from Reminders, that bell has been rung.  Now they have to figure out how to do what they could not figure out how to do earlier - Reminders AND Horizontal displays.  It's going to take time.  My guess is 2-3 months minimum.

 

I have not tested this yet, but I'm guessing that to downgrade we need to blow away the local database, install 5.07, and then rebuild the local database from the EN cloud.  Anything else probably risks the integrity of the local database.  EN is not going to help with this because they don't want to acknowledge their is a problem or suggest that downgrading is the solution.

 

There are a lot of comments here.  If you want to have an impact on EN, those comments have to reach the general market, not be confined to this forum.  I'm a Mac user so that means posting feedback at the AppStore.

 

Bottom line, this will not be fixed quickly, if at all.  That said, I hope EN will jump into this forum on Tuesday with better news.  If not, I think we can safely assume that their silence is an indication that they plan to just "weather the storm", not reinstate horizontal views.

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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

 

The question is how did these become mutually exclusive?  Did the people asking for Reminders also say "get rid of horizontal views"?  It's a simple screen real estate problem.

I've actually already asked that question or wondered about it more than once in this topic. It's not my call and the explanation offered was unclear. I'm just following ozmark's system for determining interest in a feature by counting posts in the forum that call for that feature, and letting you know that there is at interest at least on the same order of magnitude for reminder-like functionality as there is for horizontal list view, based on post count. Whether that system is accurate or good at figuring out relative interest between two different (but possibly related, due to use of screen space) features is anyone's guess.

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Been a premium member for a couple of years now. I don't use the forums unless I'm having a problem with Evernote, so I didn't see any post about removing horizontal list view. Please consider this backlash.

 

The new vertical view is a terrible waste of space for me. I use (and pay) for Evernote because it's a great program for writing, reading, and searching notes, not because of reminders or other frills. I'm all for adding new functionality but not that affects the core purpose of Evernote!

 

Could someone please explain how I might go about downgrading from 5.1.0? 

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Where were you all when Evernote asked on these forums to hear from horizontal list view aficionados!?

Well, what's done is done. The horizontal view is gone. Personally, I disliked the horizontal view myself, but I can see the use case, and it seems better to have more options rather than less.

 

Where were we? We were earning a living that's where! The tone of this comment is just not good enough for an Evernote official (EvernoteEvangelist looks official so I'm assuming it is).

 

I'm a paying user. I expect a service I buy to get better, not worse.

 

It is impossible to make an argument that a list that can only show one and a half piece of data is better than a list that could show all the relevant data for a note. List view allowed me to sort by title, date created or date last edited depending on my needs. Evernote already has a million and one fluff views that show no data, the list view was the one and only powerful view the app supported, and now that too has been turned into useless fluff. This is categorically a reduction in functionality a DOWNGRADE. There is an aesthetics argument too, but vital functionality is GONE - it is not moved, it is GONE.

 

I really get the impression Evernote don't care about power users.

 

Evernote has lost the ability to see all the data about notes in a single sensible place.

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Adding my voice to the chorus.

 

This update has killed the usability of evernote for me on my laptop screen. It really messes up my workflow.

 

For an application that can be used in so many unique and custom ways, it's really necessary to have a flexible UI.

 

At the very least, please let us HIDE THE NOTE PREVIEW so we can have a long list view of our notes.

 

I've been a premium member for quite a while and I might have to find another solution.

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Well GrumpyMonkey, I wondered if you knew how much you were pissing off users of Evernote who posted here... I guess you do, and you enjoy it. 

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38436-big-windows-update-coming-dont-trash-the-horizontal-view/

 

 

GrumpyMonkey, on 27 May 2013 -7:50, said:

The 5.1.1. Mac users are now being chastised for not being vocal enough in the past about their desires.So as a Windows user, let me go on the record:

Chastised by me  :)
If you are angry, that is your choice. I don't have any power over your emotional state, or anyone else's for that matter. I certainly don't want you or any other users to be upset, and I assure you that I am not experiencing any troll-like pleasure in your discomfort.

I was simply expressing my opinion about the opportunities that I think users should take advantage of with this forum. The developers are interested in hearing what users want to say, and I hope everyone will let them know.

I also encourage everyone to read the entire post you linked (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38436-big-windows-update-coming-dont-trash-the-horizontal-view/?p=207731) and come to their own conclusions about how reprehensible (or not) my suggestions are. Specifically, the post goes on to say, "And, you are doing what I think everyone ought to be doing -- voicing your opinion BEFORE Evernote (or any developer) commits to a course of action rather than afterwards, when you have to fight to get something you need back..." and then goes on to offer my own suggestion for improvement (which has so far not been adopted by the developers, but hope springs eternal) "At a glance I would like to see as much information about my account and my notes as possible. I understand that this might be overwhelming to some users, especially newer ones, or people with fewer notes, so persistent on/off toggles (as we used to have with OSX) would be fine..."

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Yes, please give back the option for the horizontal list. I have billions of programs for reminders, but only ONE I use for my notes. I NEED the horizontal list. Thanks.

And let me add to my own post... I am a PAID user as well, and this problem is making me much less likely to want to keep doing that...

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Didn't get a chance to read what everyone else is saying, but I'm really frustrated with the removal of the list view on top. I couldn't care less about reminders (more bloat imo though I know many people are into this feature). Please fix this ASAP.

 

I have cancelled my premium subscription until this view is added back in.

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I love the comparative simplicity of the same issue on the Windows side. @MadKnickers writes in distraught about the vertical view and how to get the horizontal back and @mrossk replies nonchalantly "Ctrl-Shift-F5". And that's all there was to it.

(http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29528-help-my-panel-layout-has-changed-how/)

Please let the option of switching on the Mac be as simple!

 

You mean it's only us Mac users who are getting such a rotten deal from this upgrade?

 

HOW is that either fair or acceptable?

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I would very very strongly support having the horizontal list view back. I have unfortuantely upgraded evernote on my laptop, which basically makes it unusable for me. I won't update it on any of my other computers until this has been restored (hopefully it will!)

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As I write this, I am looking directly at the text I am typing. With the new view I would have to look at an angle to type, which is unnatural.

 

Please, at least, add in the old view. Evernote seems to be in my way, now.

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I love the comparative simplicity of the same issue on the Windows side. @MadKnickers writes in distraught about the vertical view and how to get the horizontal back and @mrossk replies nonchalantly "Ctrl-Shift-F5". And that's all there was to it.

(http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29528-help-my-panel-layout-has-changed-how/)

Please let the option of switching on the Mac be as simple!

 

You mean it's only us Mac users who are getting such a rotten deal from this upgrade?

 

HOW is that either fair or acceptable?

Hi. Actually, the apps are run by different teams with different upgrade schedules. I don't know if it is fair or acceptable, but this is how it works. There are pros and cons. The Windows app has long had a bunch of nice features like the vertical list view, and I think we Mac users have a great deal with our new vertical list view.

What the Windows app lacks right now is the Reminders, and it has been a long time since it was last overhauled, so I expect a lot of tough decisions are being made about what to cull and what to keep. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

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Where were you all when Evernote asked on these forums to hear from horizontal list view aficionados!?

 

 

Ok, that's not fair. I've been using Evernote longer than Phil claims the company has even existed, but I don't live in the forums. I show up when I have trouble or suggestions. They have my email address. They also could collect analytics from the client on who actually lives ONLY in horizontal list mode. - Maybe send THAT group an email? 

 

Hi g...

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

I really don't  see any technical reason why reminders only work in vertical mode, and not horizontal. It's not fair to phrase it like it was a one or the other choice. That dog don't hunt.

 

Anyhow, I'm not going to through a tantrum or anything. I'm just disappointed. My productivity has been negatively impacted and I expect better of Evernote. 

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why remove the choice anyway? Surely it's a usability choice for the user? You can't enforce it. Basically you are assuming people prefer to work like that, which in turn assumes widescreen aspect ratio and high res screen. Imagine the outcry if MS messed with the taskbar? Oh, they did... and there was. 

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The Windows app has long had a bunch of nice features like the vertical list view, and I think we Mac users have a great deal with our new vertical list view.

 

If the new view on the Mac is like the list view on Windows, then I honestly don't know why people are so upset!  That's the view I use the most often!  When you use descriptive titles, it's so much easier to find the note you're looking for with the Windows list view. 

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Another vote (plea) for horizontal view. I've used Evernote since 2008 and have been a premium user since it was available. Vertical list view is a ridiculous waste of screen space on my laptop. For all other reasons articulated in this thread, please bring it back.

 

I also have downgraded to 5.0.7 and will hold off on future upgrades until horizontal list view returns.

 

-Jeff

 

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Please, Please, Please bring back the horizontal list view. I need a lot of space when I am writing long notes. With the horizontal list I can restrict the list to just a few items and have a BIG space for writing.

 

I also only visit this forum when I am having a problem and so I missed the request for input on the horizontal list. I won't be using reminders in Evernote - I have plenty of other options for reminders. But Evernote is my ONLY option for note taking.

 

I'm going back to version 5.0.7.

+1

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Like many people on this thread I'm very, very disappointed that the horizontal view is gone. Lately, there have been several rounds of changes that have made Evernote less useable for me.

 

As for 'why didn't you respond when we posted about this in the forums'? Well, because I'm busy working and not trolling through the forums. I'm a paid subscriber, and have been one for many years. I didn't receive a single email requesting my input about removing what seems to me a fundamental view option. I love Evernote, but I am now reconsidering how much longer I use it. I need a top notch note taking app. I don't need another app to remind me to do things - there are PLENTY of apps that do that. I'm not sure why the product management decided Evernote needed to do more, instead of focusing on doing what you do really well.

 

So, so disappointed. :-(

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As to the reason (adding reminders) I don't use you as a todo list -  i use you to store and manage information (which is what you started out being).  Don't kill what you're good at to become 'everything for everyone'.

I can guarantee you that there are over 150 users who have asked for reminders or related functionality in these forums. So if your rule of thumb is good enough for horizontal list view, then it ought to be good enough for reminders.

 

The question is how did these become mutually exclusive?  Did the people asking for Reminders also say "get rid of horizontal views"?  It's a simple screen real estate problem.

I've actually already asked that question or wondered about it more than once in this topic. It's not my call and the explanation offered was unclear. I'm just following ozmark's system for determining interest in a feature by counting posts in the forum that call for that feature, and letting you know that there is at interest at least on the same order of magnitude for reminder-like functionality as there is for horizontal list view, based on post count. Whether that system is accurate or good at figuring out relative interest between two different (but possibly related, due to use of screen space) features is anyone's guess.

Hey I was using a valid political measurement system of determining the veracity of COMPLAINTS, not a method of determining the number of interested people wanting a software feature.  We're not asking for a feature here.  We're all BITTERLY COMPLAINING.  And as such, I said you could easily apply the political 'rule of thumb' with complaints that one written complaint is worth at least 100 complaints since most people don't bother to complain - they just leave quietly and tell everyone how bad you've become behind your back.

 

So as I've already said, stop taking my comments out of context.

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I'd like to keep the feedback on this thread constructive and about the product. Multiple posts and personal attacks aren't helpful.

 

As always, thanks to everyone for posting. Your requests are all being heard.

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

Like many people on this thread I'm very, very disappointed that the horizontal view is gone. Lately, there have been several rounds of changes that have made Evernote less useable for me.

 

As for 'why didn't you respond when we posted about this in the forums'? Well, because I'm busy working and not trolling through the forums. I'm a paid subscriber, and have been one for many years. I didn't receive a single email requesting my input about removing what seems to me a fundamental view option. I love Evernote, but I am now reconsidering how much longer I use it. I need a top notch note taking app. I don't need another app to remind me to do things - there are PLENTY of apps that do that. I'm not sure why the product management decided Evernote needed to do more, instead of focusing on doing what you do really well.

 

So, so disappointed. :-(

You don't need to spend ages trawling through the forums to see what's upcoming -- the betas generally give you that kind of information, and a chance to feed back on it early in the process (doesn't mean that Evernote will always heed it). You can either hop on the beta train (though some folks understandably don't want to be beta testers, or even use new releases right away), or subscribe to the beta announcement topic threads as they pop up -- they're usually easy to find, as they are pinned to the top of the forum. Not sure that email blasts for every new feature/design change would be the best way to elicit feedback, and I'm sure that some folks would have problems with the idea that Evernote is looking through its user base to find people who are using particular Evernote clients so that they can send them emails for that purpose. Flip side is that I'm not blaming anyone who didn't catch the question in the first place; it's that there may be easier ways to follow new development directions than spending ages in the forums.

 

On the topic of "why reminders"??? Simple: there are many, many forum discussions from Evernote users requesting due-dates/reminders/calendars and other related functionality, and something in that area has been promised by the Evernote CEO for over 3 years now, at last count. It was bound to happen, and it looks like it's going to be lightweight but usable, which is about all that I'd need. I still don't understand why reminders and horizontal list view are an either/or, though.

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The Windows app has long had a bunch of nice features like the vertical list view, and I think we Mac users have a great deal with our new vertical list view.

 

If the new view on the Mac is like the list view on Windows, then I honestly don't know why people are so upset!  That's the view I use the most often!  When you use descriptive titles, it's so much easier to find the note you're looking for with the Windows list view.

It's not so much about the vertical view, but about losing the horizontal one in the process. I also think some people probably don't realize that it is quite customizable (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106).
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Grumpymonkey is not the enemy. My take on this forum is that GM
has been engaging in a balanced way with the user community. And GM's
perspective is what I think most of us would want: give the user choice to
set the display as he or she wants. GM - I appreciate your inputs. (And by
the way, this doesn't mean I don't want horizontal lists back).

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> "Where were you all when Evernote asked on these forums to hear from horizontal list view aficionados!?"

 

This is a classic case of survivor bias.  

 

Those of us who liked the horizontal view were happy as clams and had no need to come here.  Now you will be hearing from us in droves, I imagine.  

 

I've been using a version of the horizontal view pretty much since I started using Evernote, and taking it out deprives us of a huge amount of real estate.  

 

Because I used the horizontal view, I tend to use long titles for my notes, and long paragraphs.  These are all cut off now - it's awful.

 

This shouldn't be an either/or situation.  There are clearly adherents to both layouts and Evernote should provide both horizontal and vertical views for those that want them.

 

Please remember that this forum is not an accurate sampling of user preferences.  You will only hear squeaky wheels here.

 

Squeak squeak!

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I am one of the ones that loves the new vertical view and requested it, however I never dreamed it meant users who preferred horizontal view would have to lose that, and wish they hadn't. BTW, I find some of the posts in this forum sort of half-directing blame at complaining users for not knowing the road map and not speaking up to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen on a forum :).

Hi. That would be me you are talking about? If so, I don't blame anyone for anything. In fact, I did speak up for horizontallers and the view still went away. It's not anyone's fault. It was a design decision that was probably made with a lot more factors in mind than we have at hand, and maybe if I had been in the meetings, I would have agreed. Who knows? At any rate, I encourage users to speak up any time, because the developers need to hear from you.

I simply said that if you care about something enough that you would miss it if it were gone, then let someone know before it is gone. This goes for people and apps. Even if you communicate and they know, it might not change the end result, but at least they will know your thoughts and consider them. Is that so bizarre?

In fact, I just got a five year anniversary email from Evernote asking for feedback about how the service has affected me. Evernote is reaching out because it wants to know your thoughts. Is that so bizarre?

Don't wait five years, though, to share your thoughts with people. Send an email and let the developers of all your favorite apps know what you like/dislike. It only takes a few minutes and could make a big difference. That's my advice. If it seems too bizarre, then feel free to disregard it :)

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Can someone point me in the direction of how to downgrade back to 5.0.7 so I can get my horizontal view back???

 

I found 5.0. here and installed it. Seems to have worked fine to go from 5.1x back to 5.0.7. But proceed at your own risk. 

 

mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

Downgrade working fine for me.

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Normally I never complain about software, but I have specially created this account to post my vote:

Paid User here adding a vote for the return of Horizontal View

 

My Premium subscription will expire within a few days, and I might not renew it until this is fixed.

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THANK YOU!!!!

 

It's great that you guys were able to turn this around so quick - you must have swooped straight into action when it became clear the removal of the top list was an absolute show-stopper for so many of us.

 

Life is full of learning experiences right - if I could suggest one take-away from this whole storm in a tea-cup, it would be to let your customers know that you have swooped into action. I contacted chat support and they simply refused to tell me anything. They suggested I post here, and again, nothing official from EverNote. I checked the EverNote blog, also nothing. You had leapt into action, but we simply did not know you had, so we were still worrying that we needed to shout louder to be heard. A simple to the point blog post to the effect that a solution is in the works was all that would have been needed. At the very least you could have given your tech support people a quick one-line stock answer to that effect. I felt so sorry for the poor chat support agent who was prevented from helping me, either because she had been kept ignorant, or because she had been told to say nothing. As it was, both of us left the conversation with nothing to show for it but wasted time - I was no more mollified than when the chat started started (in fact I was more frustrated), and the agent seemed genuinely sorry that she was unable to be of any assistance at all.

 

Anyhow - thanks, and please consider being more communicative next time there is a boo boo. I never judge a company by whether or not they make mistakes, we ALL do that, I judge companies by how they respond to their mistakes, and how they learn from their mistakes.

 

Bart.

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johnmarshall4 says it perfectly for me.  I've been a Premium member since Evernote started accepting Premium members, and it's a tool I use daily and love.  Removing the horizontal view is big step backward in usability as far as I am concerned, and I am disappointed with the way it was handled.  

 

Please bring back an option for horizontal mode, as quickly as possible.  

 

Many thanks.  

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Not only do I prefer horizontal view, I really need the columns with information (sync status, notebook, etc) back. Now, is there a way to display those?

 

you can enable them by right clicking the column headers, however every column you add eats further into your real estate, and ultimately your note display area. The vertical list just doesn't work.

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I prefer the horizontal view over reminders.  Kind of hard to believe reminders module dictates view module.  You have to have someone capable on your design team to provide both horizontal view and reminders!  This issue will cause me not to use Evernote anymore.

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First, let me say that I am a long-time Evernote premium user. In general, I love the product and have changed my daily workflow to make good use of Evernote many times a day. I has really helped me move towards a paperless world.
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The prevailing "we know best" attitude fails again I'm afraid.

 
 

Note to EN:
 
1)  User testing.  If you want to avoid these kinds of problems, run some focus groups with the UI concepts, and the trade offs you're considering, before you write a line of code.  This is standard procedure at most high volume software companies.  You guys are acting like total amateurs to test these ideas at release time.
 
2) If you want to ask users, send email to a random (emphasize random which anyone who took Stat 101 would know) selection of Premium customers and ask them to respond to ideas.

 
Metrodon hit the nail on the head.  Evernote design changes, and their arguments for these changes, continue to show that they do in fact believe that they ALWAYS know best, and that their users will just have to learn to adapt to these changes.
 
AFAIK, Evernote does not use focus groups or anyone external in evaluating design decisions.  The Evernote CEO, Phil Libin, has stated numerous times that "we design our software for ourselves."  Most recently Evernote senior manager Heather rationalized the major UI changes made with Skitch 2.0, EN Mac 5.0, and iOS 5.0 as being good and proper even though there was a large outcry from the users against these UI changes.

 

Boatguy, I wish Evernote would take your advice.  Evern though it is sound advice employed by many software developers, I doubt they will because they are just too arrogant.  When you believe that you are way smarter than everyone else, you tend to discard complaints as coming from ignorant people who just don't get it.

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I'm also a paid member who uses (used??) the Horizontal List View 95%+ of the time. For me the main advantages are more efficient use of screen real estate, and (most importantly) the ability to sort the list by tags. I use special characters (e.g. # . !) in front of certain tags. The list sorted beautifully on those and helped to organize my work over four locations. Adding a reminder feature is nice, but I use a calendar for that. If the two features are, indeed, mutually exclusive, I'd gladly give up Reminders to restore the Horizontal List View.

 

FWIW: As someone said above, I'd come to this forum only if I had a problem. I've got too much to do to be checking various app forums just in case they might be thinking of a change. Forums are great, but for this kind of major change an email to registered users would give you a much broader data sample.

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Here is another vote for the Horizontal view.

Why:
In order to see the content of the columns panel the app needs to be in fullscreen and even then it's crowded.
The App does not remember the width of the panels so need to realign every time the app is opened.
If the column panel is expanded to the full view some of the Note panel editor buttons disappear on the right (should appear with an arrow down like in Office)
It allows you to see they layout of the note fully.
Better use of space when you have multiple short notes such as when you add to-do items.
...and more

What to do right now:
You can upgrade to an older version on Mac. (see: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/31586-getting-previous-versions-of-the-app-to-roll-back-to-mac/)
You can use the web version that still supports horizontal view, and does it pretty well. It also has visual cues to show what folder and tags are selected together that are not shown on Mac.
You can install the Windows version if you have Parallels, or similar. Ctrl-Shift-F5 allows you to switch between horizontal and vertical in list view.
 

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I want to speak up on the side of binging back the horizontal view.  I've always used Evernote in this way and it made evernote much easier to use side-by-side.  There were very few times where I only wanted to see Evernote on the screen.  Most of the time i'm taking notes about something so I have a browser or PDF open on one half of the screen and Evernote on the other.  This change breaks that workflow.  :-(

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All valid points. Let me ask you this - have you tried out Vertical List View?

 

In anticipating our Horizontal List View fans, we also added the capability of right-clicking the title bars in Vertical List View and giving users the options of adding on filters as needed. To johnmarshall4's point and workflow of using Horizontal List View of "created date, updated date, title, notebook, and tags" -- I've attached a screenshot with those exact parameters to help you visualize what Vertical List View can do. You can also toggle the width of Vertical List View to be expansively wide as you want (and if you try it out, you will see what I mean how it can get very wide).

 

Functionally speaking, it was very difficult to reconcile Horizontal List View with Reminders because of our Reminders pane (in the attached screenshot, you'll see it listing 2 reminders of California's hidden gems and most surreal places) that would show you your reminders both in an All Notes context and on a per Notebook basis. Please know that we took it under very careful consideration but were unable to come up with a good, timely solution at this point -- all things considered. We may revisit it in the future.

 

We try our best to accomodate all of our users and their needs, and we do read and listen to user feedback that is posted on the forums  :) 

 

What exactly about Horizontal List View do you find the most useful that can't be fulfilled in Vertical List View? I am curious to hear people's workflows, aside from johnmarshall4 of using created date, updated date, title, notebook and tags.

post-119570-0-09732200-1369341767_thumb.

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I believe that Evernote do some focus panel testing, there is also a beta program that pretty much anyone can join. 

 

But, there is an undoubted arrogance about their methodology. Let's face it Skitch was an embarrassing disaster, EN 5 on iOS is in my opinion a UI and usability mess and Mac 5.0 was released with some functionality removed from the previous version despite many complaints during the beta process, which like Skitch had to be put back in. I would imagine that EN 5 on Windows will result in a lot of noise, a great deal of this will just be because people don't like change, but undoubtedly there will be UI and functionality changes that anger existing users.

 

They will point to increased user numbers and maybe even more Premium accounts and this is their reason for being there, but if you are a long time user then there is an ongoing risk that your use case could be broken at any time and that's quite scary.  

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Grumpymonkey is not the enemy. My take on this forum is that GM

has been engaging in a balanced way with the user community. And GM's

perspective is what I think most of us would want: give the user choice to

set the display as he or she wants. GM - I appreciate your inputs. (And by

the way, this doesn't mean I don't want horizontal lists back).

 

Thanks for the kind words, and for restating the thrust of my comments. I couldn't have said it better ("give the user choice to set the display as he or she wants"). And, just for the record, I'd like the horizontal view back as well :)

 

I think there have been some really constructive posts, especially by people who have detailed their own use cases and workflows. It has given me more  insight into how others use the app, and I've even gotten some ideas for my own workflow from the discussions. Hopefully, it has also helped the developers get a better sense of how the app is being used in the wild. 

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :) ' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.  

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :)' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.  

 

Dude, that is one of the greatest things I've ever seen on a forum (among off-topic stuff). Thank you for being a great example of showing a lot of class. My hat is off to you and I hope I remember to do the same if I post something I regret some day.

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Bravo! I haven't had a chance yet to explore fully but I look forward to being able to use reminders and to having my choice of horizontal or vertical list view. Thank you to the entire EN team for a speedy response to this issue. I had assumed that it would take many weeks at least for EN to restore horizontal views to 5.1. I am guessing that you guys have done some scrambling to deliver a solution to your users so quickly. This a terrific demonstration of how to listen and respond to user feedback. The real test of a performer (be it a team or an individual) is not whether mistakes are ever made, it's how mistakes are addressed and rectified when they are made. The EN team has passed that test with flying colors.

 

Although some of the feedback about the loss of horizontal list view in this forum has at times seemed strident, I hope the EN developers have been able to see that it is a testament to the value of EN that people really cared a lot when it was changed.

 

Thanks again for listening and responding so quickly.

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You don't need to spend ages trawling through the forums to see what's upcoming -- the betas generally give you that kind of information, and a chance to feed back on it early in the process (doesn't mean that Evernote will always heed it). You can either hop on the beta train (though some folks understandably don't want to be beta testers, or even use new releases right away), or subscribe to the beta announcement topic threads as they pop up -- they're usually easy to find, as they are pinned to the top of the forum. Not sure that email blasts for every new feature/design change would be the best way to elicit feedback, and I'm sure that some folks would have problems with the idea that Evernote is looking through its user base to find people who are using particular Evernote clients so that they can send them emails for that purpose. Flip side is that I'm not blaming anyone who didn't catch the question in the first place; it's that there may be easier ways to follow new development directions than spending ages in the forums.

 

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

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I think you have this backwards. The users should not be the ones checking the forums, or monitoring betas watching for changes to the features they love. It's the company that should watch the users. It's called analytics and most major companies and web sites do it. Count the users who use a certain feature, count how many times a certain button is clicked etc. Then anonymously report this back. Or with user's permission tie it to their account. If you see a large number of people using a feature you are going to chop then maybe you should send out a survey? You know like when you go to your Evernote Personal Settings, under emails and there is a little check mark that says YES I am interested in getting Surveys? I know mine is checked. Don't recall getting a survey.

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :)' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.

No need for apologies! But, thank you :)

You're passionate about the topic, and you're here offering feedback. That's what's important, and I really appreciate it. My apologies to you and anyone else in the thread for derailing the conversation. That certainly wasn't my intention, and in the future I will be more careful to let the conversations take their course before I jump in with my (sometimes too strong) opinions. Cheers!

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Thanks, guys! Was just about to spend a few hours backing up and rolling back to get my horizontal list view back, so the release's timing couldn't have been better. Way to turn around a solution. (Wish I'd known to stop worrying and that you were on the case, but done = good. Thanks tons.) 

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I have (and use) the sidebar open all the time. With the addition of the list view, I now need to make the Evernote window much wider to display a page-width of note text.

 

Also, I usually don't have that many notes in each notebook, so now I have all this wasted space in the List view. 

 

Now if the Evernote team has their heart set on using only a Vertical List view, how about giving us an option to 'auto-hide' it, or to have some sort of 'drawer' option, so that we can at least get rid of it when we don't need it? (Or, does some option already exist)?

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

I use the Vertical View (in Windows) 100% of my time.

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4

 

But...

I don't recall seeing any ultimatum from Evernote that it was going to be one version or the other.

 

Haven't seen much in the Reminder launch that couldn't also been done with the simple Due Date field.

And that would have prevented this Judgment of Solomon decision to kill off one of the views.

 

Search Code 47ER92 - I believe this is at least my 32nd post requesting the Due Date field.
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I can only second the required return of the horizontal view. Evernote is a note-taking and -reading app first and foremost, and confining especially saved webpages to a mere slit breaks any user experience for me. Same for writing texts in Evernote. You know, some of us write long paragraphs and texts, not only bullet point lists? The vertical view doesn't do the note pane justice, nor the list pane.

 

I will downgrade to 5.0.7 as so many others until an option for the horizontal view is back. Reminders - OK, nice new feature. But please don't break the app for me because of them. And I am saying this as a paying and previously extremely happy customer... :-(

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 

 

If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/05/23/evernote-reminders-are-here-on-mac-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.

 

We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI. 

 

Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?

 

I would really like horizontal view back (even if at the expense of reminders). The vertical view doesn't let me read long note titles or any of the other information that was displayed previously!

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i'm surprised at all this talk to the effect of "well we asked you all what you thought on the forums so you had the chance to have your say" and "well, you could have tried the Beta release". Why does being a user of an application mean that you would be an active participant in the forums or the Beta programme? I had not used the forums before today, and I only came on to complain about the view list changes. Notes are not really something I feel passionate about, I just want the application to work. I use notes all the time, and I came here from Tomboy notes. Whilst I think Evernote is useful, it does seem quite feature rich, and I do prefer a lighter-weight notes application. When things start getting dictated like how I should use the application, then that's going to annoy me enough to come and air my views. Sorry but my time is too precious to be actively participating in the community for every application I use, especially something which I only use basic functionality of, and just appreciate it being stable and solid. Anyway, I can't imagine I am alone - it's the way people feel. If you care, you need to do something about it, rather than this "oh you had your chance to say, now you are stuck with it" attitude.

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Just to add my voice to the chorus of those BEGGING for the Horizontal List View to be added back... I've been a Premium user and huge Evernote fan for years, I basically live inside it all day long for research/writing/project planning and this forced switch to Vertical List View has COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY wrecked my workflow and productivity. I don't care about reminders one way or the other, but if the Horizontal List View is not added back, I will be forced to consider canceling my Premium membership and checking out other products - which I really don't want to do! So disappointing, Evernote.

In the meantime I guess I'm going to try to downgrade to 5.0.7, but please please please add it back to the next/future versions...

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Yes, please bring this back. I was able to keep track of what had synced that way, too. Doesn't look like you can tell with current list view.

 

Next time I'll read the last page instead of just the first few. Thanks!!

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> "Where were you all when Evernote asked on these forums to hear from horizontal list view aficionados!?"

 

This is a classic case of survivor bias.  

 

Those of us who liked the horizontal view were happy as clams and had no need to come here.  Now you will be hearing from us in droves, I imagine.  

 

I've been using a version of the horizontal view pretty much since I started using Evernote, and taking it out deprives us of a huge amount of real estate.  

 

Because I used the horizontal view, I tend to use long titles for my notes, and long paragraphs.  These are all cut off now - it's awful.

 

This shouldn't be an either/or situation.  There are clearly adherents to both layouts and Evernote should provide both horizontal and vertical views for those that want them.

 

Please remember that this forum is not an accurate sampling of user preferences.  You will only hear squeaky wheels here.

 

Squeak squeak!

 

Hi. Welcome to the forums! And, thanks for squeaking your feedback :)

 

Just to set the record straight, I spoke up on your behalf for keeping both views, even though I am not a regular horizontal list view user (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34709-horizontal-vs-vertical-list-views/#entry188109)!

 

Where I disagree with you about not speaking up is that you have to speak up. Sorry, but you need to be doing this for every app that you care about, even if you only care about it a little bit. Bookmark the relevant forum sites and pop in to follow things every once in a while (most of the forums I visit are dead quiet, so this isn't as difficult as it sounds). Make your use case known to the developers, get to know them (a couple of emails telling them how much you like their app and what you like about it). Obviously, you shouldn't waste your time (in my opinion) with some massive products like Word or PowerPoint, because you are unlikely to get through to anyone of relevance. But, Evernote's developers are relatively easy to contact -- just post on the forums!

 

It only takes about 5 minutes. Let's say you have 10 apps you use enough that you'd miss them if they were gone. Email one app developer a day, and by the beginning of next month, with just 50 minutes invested, you will have made your voice heard. Surely, everyone has 5 minutes to spare for something they care this much about, right? Put down angry birds next time you go to the bathroom and send off an email instead :)

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Oh. I should also not only thank you for posting your displeasure with the update, but encourage you and everyone else to continue to voice your thoughts here. The only way the developers will know is if you speak up and say something. I don't know if they will agree to change it, but they do listen, and that is something more than I can say for some developers (I can't even figure out how to contact some developers of other apps/services, and posting on their forums hasn't ever gotten me a response). The nice thing about Evernote is that they pay attention (again, they may not agree with you, but they are at least participating in the conversation). 

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Glad I saw this before upgrading although it sounds more like a down grade.

 

Having to monitor a user forum to make sure one votes to keep the vendor from removing key features is inefficient and unproductive of the first order. Evernote is supposed to make us more productive, not less.

 

This is second feature that's been removed recently, negatively impacting my productivity and previous affection for Evernote - the other being the ability to Hide Unassigned Tags in the side bar.

 

Add me to the lists of users who

- dearly love horizontal lists,

- don't need reminders very much or at all

- are considering canceling premium membership

- are unhappy and will consider switching to an alternative

- find the concept of having to monitor a forum to prevent feature destruction to be unproductive, maddening and inane

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All valid points. Let me ask you this - have you tried out Vertical List View?

 

In anticipating our Horizontal List View fans, we also added the capability of right-clicking the title bars in Vertical List View and giving users the options of adding on filters as needed. To johnmarshall4's point and workflow of using Horizontal List View of "created date, updated date, title, notebook, and tags" -- I've attached a screenshot with those exact parameters to help you visualize what Vertical List View can do. You can also toggle the width of Vertical List View to be expansively wide as you want (and if you try it out, you will see what I mean how it can get very wide).

 

Functionally speaking, it was very difficult to reconcile Horizontal List View with Reminders because of our Reminders pane (in the attached screenshot, you'll see it listing 2 reminders of California's hidden gems and most surreal places) that would show you your reminders both in an All Notes context and on a per Notebook basis. Please know that we took it under very careful consideration but were unable to come up with a good, timely solution at this point -- all things considered. We may revisit it in the future.

 

We try our best to accomodate all of our users and their needs, and we do read and listen to user feedback that is posted on the forums  :) 

 

What exactly about Horizontal List View do you find the most useful that can't be fulfilled in Vertical List View? I am curious to hear people's workflows, aside from johnmarshall4 of using created date, updated date, title, notebook and tags.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yes I have tried vertical list view. I do realize that I can add all the columns I want, I just don't really have any room to see what is in them. I appreciate the screen shot. I never full screen apps. My work flow is always Evernote sharing the screen with either another app or an open note.  So leaving my Evernote window size the way it was I can no longer see enough useful data in the columns like title or tags. I also always have the sidebar open, though I might consider closing this now. 

 

Given they way I use Evernote, and assuming Horizontal view doesn't come back, I think I'll probably migrate to snippet view, it might be a better trade off for my normal use.

 

I am also interested in hearing how other people used Horizontal List View and why.

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For those of you needing the Horizontal List View for TSW, I recommend using the List View and selecting the appropriate columns (Created, Title, and Tags), expanding the left pane, and reducing the right pane.

 

I was a bit frustrated when I noticed that the Horizontal List View was gone, but the List View works just as well (albeit not as gracefully).  I keep more than my to-dos on EN, so I find myself switching between List View and Snippet View regularly.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

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Evernote team is notorious for coming up with bad design ideas. So now Evernote itself goes on my list of "Never to be updated" applications after Skitch. :(

(I'm keeping a newer copy on the machine that I rarely use, to check up on the updates, but so far things are not any better.)

 

@GrumpyMonkey I'm using about 200 different applications. Are you suggesting that I must go to every single vendor forum and keep track of what's going on there? Really, I have lots of far more important things to do. 

Don't forget that programs are just a tools (like hammer or screwdriver) that help us to do what we need to do. There is no program that has a value of its own.

Should I keep up with each vendor and _preventively_ post "Please don't break the good tool you've created"? Moreover, should I try to imagine every possible way of ruining it and post "don't do this" or "don't do that"?! That's ridiculous!

 

I would not suggest to developers what to do, just note that this is not first time when something is wrong with your design. Maybe you should hold designer responsible once in a while?

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i cannot believe that i am here, complaining about this!!! the evernote folks have nothing short of gaul removing the horizontal view.  what is there now sucks.  i don't even want to use it, and any work-around is nothing more than that.

 

on the other hand i'm not surprised.  the folks at evernote do what the want and don't listen often.  i've monitored this in the past.  whether it be fanboys or employees, you are handed a positively worded NO to your requests, and all is forgotten, as if we don't notice they've said no.

 

this is an un-accomodating group who cares mostly about how they want the product to be used, and little about how it actually is.  they are ripe for competition.

 

listen for a change people and fix this!!!

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Now that I have both downgraded Evernote and quashed  my displeasure, and have also read all the comments. I can act like an adult. I don't think I did, before.

 

I want reminders. I was pleased to see the implementation and it does work, but it cuts my screen real estate in half. LIke many here, I think the missing view is essential and is a default position for visualizing one's data. That's what I miss about the view: I cannot see the picture of things I need to see all at once any longer, yet I use EN for everything, so everything I do is affected.

 

A solution is to add the view back in, but that is hard to do and keep reminders. I propose adding the view back in without reminders. I'm a Mac users, we all are, in this part of the forum ( I think) so there's an app for that: Reminders for Mac/iOS. We can use that, or if not, switch views. But first there must be a view to which we can switch.

 

I think this works: Put in the view without access to reminders and if the user wants reminders the user can switch to get it. But some may say "But then it won't be available everywhere!" No view is available all the time, one must switch views to see a particular view, that's why they exist: so that the user may have different perspective on his data. Allow us this default perspective please.

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I am one of the ones that loves the new vertical view and requested it, however I never dreamed it meant users who preferred horizontal view would have to lose that, and wish they hadn't. BTW, I find some of the posts in this forum sort of half-directing blame at complaining users for not knowing the road map and not speaking up to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen on a forum :).

Hi. That would be me you are talking about? If so, I don't blame anyone for anything. In fact, I did speak up for horizontallers and the view still went away. It's not anyone's fault. It was a design decision that was probably made with a lot more factors in mind than we have at hand, and maybe if I had been in the meetings, I would have agreed. Who knows? At any rate, I encourage users to speak up any time, because the developers need to hear from you.

I simply said that if you care about something enough that you would miss it if it were gone, then let someone know before it is gone. This goes for people and apps. Even if you communicate and they know, it might not change the end result, but at least they will know your thoughts and consider them. Is that so bizarre?

In fact, I just got a five year anniversary email from Evernote asking for feedback about how the service has affected me. Evernote is reaching out because it wants to know your thoughts. Is that so bizarre?

Aside fr

Don't wait five years, though, to share your thoughts with people. Send an email and let the developers of all your favorite apps know what you like/dislike. It only takes a few minutes and could make a big difference. That's my advice. If it seems too bizarre, then feel free to disregard it :)

 

sorry but that's the most idiotic thing i've ever heard. You are seriously suggesting that for every application we use, we should ensure that we let the author know every feature we would not like to be removed in future? Is that actually what you are saying? Aside from that being completely impractical and just entirely completely the wrong mindset let alone approach, often users won't know how much they have come to rely on something until it's gone. Basic functionality is assumed to be a core pillar of a product. If you change something quite fundamental that affects so many users, and the whole usability of the product, to the point where users are downgrading, talking about stopping using the product entirely you MUST rethink. I don't think most of the affected users ever thought something like this would change, because authors just don't do this type of thing. It isn't something a user might expect to happen. Someone needs to go and read the usability hall of shame, before they end up on it. 

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At a quick glance through this thread, it seems that a number of the people upset about the loss of the vetical list view are using Evernote for something it wasn't really designed to do: handling a complex task management system like GTD. In cases like that, what GM is suggesting makes perfect sense. If you are using a program in a non-standard way, especially one that changes as frequently as Evernote, it does behoove you to let the developers know how you use the program. Any program I use frequently that isn't by some huge company, I provide suggestions and feedback to regularly, especially if it's a free program. I tell the developers what I like and what I'd like to see and, what I don't like. The result is that, for a number of programs by small outfits, I actually get consulted about future changes. This takes me less than an hour a month.

I also give feedback to the local cafe I frequent and the small local market where I shop.

Best of luck.

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Just updated and saw the disaster. Please bring the Horizontal list view back. It is necessary to correctly read note titles with dates. I use Evernote for a lot of things, a lab notebook being a part of it. I have > 1200 notes right now and need some details in the list view (full titles, dates created/modified) that the vertical list view can't display on my monitor. Next thing I'll do after writing this is revert to 5.0.x.

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Thank you, much appreciated.

The addition of the reminders might come in handy and I like how you can just scroll down and they're not in the way when you're not looking at them.

Keep up the good work :)

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