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Frustrated that Skitch Stays in Dock Now


GregHouston

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First, Skitch & Evernote have been two of my favorite apps for years - I recommend them both regularly. I keep Skitch in my menu bar all the time. What I miss most about the old Skitch is that when I used to close the Skitch window (which was triggered to open through the menu bar icon), it would automatically close the application and remove from itself from my Dock (while continuing to run in the menu bar) - perfect!

 

Now when I close the Skitch window, it leaves the full application running and stays in the Dock. Duplicative and annoying. I could "quit skitch" instead of closing the the window, but that is simply not nearly as user friendly.

 

Anyone else frustrated by this - found any workarounds, like a script that quits skitch when window in closed?

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@Greg

 

We keep the app available in the doc because it is a quick and easy way for many users to access the app, especially if they are not running the Helper. There currently are no preferences to quit the app when you save or share your file.

 

A simple work around for you is to set the Helper preferences to always be active and then close the Skitch window (CMD+W), or quit the app (CMD+Q) when you are not working with it.

 

You can find the Skitch preferences Under Preferences-> General. See the pic as an example: http://note.io/V58Wnu

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Thanks for your quick reply. I am very familiar with the preferences options. I do run skitch "helper" 100% of the time via my menu bar (i find it that valuable), which is why the the functionality of automatically quitting the app when i close the window was so perfect for my use. I'll try CMD+Q, but I'd still prefer at least an option for the follow: close skitch window = quit skitch, but leave helper running in menu bar.

 

Reality is that skitch is still very good, but Evernote has eliminated some great features and design (like a history accessible through skitch - no reason it can't be in both evernote & skitch). I understand trying to funnel users into evernote to promote that product (which is fantastic), but this approach is a bit too heavy-handed and generates some negative associations that could be completely avoided by providing options in preferences to retore some of the "old functionality." Set the default up the way you want, but give users flexibility.

 

Thank you for considering my feedback!

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I don't know if this works in Skitch 2, but it worked fine in Skitch 1.012 on my Lion install.

How to hide icon in your dock for any Mac application | Commanigy

 

The actual steps for Skitch 1.012, which I got from

https://getsatisfaction.com/rescuetime/topics/it_would_be_great_to_be_able_to_hide_rescuetime_from_the_dock

--. Navigate to your Applications folder and right-click on the Skitch.app and select "Show Package Contents".
--. This should open a folder that contains a "Contents" folder, open that folder and you should see a list of folders and files including "Info.plist"
--. Double click on Info.plist to open it - it should open with the Property List Editor by default
--. Click the triangle next to "Root" and it should display the contents of the Info.plist file.
--. The setting we are interested is called "LSUIElement". This setting should be in the property list and should have a Value of 1 (hidden). If it has a value of 0, you can change it to 1 by double clicking on the value.
--. Close the Property List Editor and save the changes

 

EDIT:  I tried it on v. 2.0.4 on my Lion install. Yes, you can add a boolean LSUIElement item to the info.plist that's part of the app package and make the dock icon go away, but you lose access to a lot of the Skitch menus (including your Skitch preferences), which can be accessed only when the dock icon is active. It might work for some ppl depending on workflow - you'd have to try it and see if you miss what you lose. A workaround might be to have two Skitch apps, one modified and one not - launch the unmodified one when you need the full complement of Skitch menus. Frankly, I dislike version 2 so much that it's not worth my time to experiment too much.

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Hi Mal,

 

The reason is a technical one. As far as we can tell today, that the ability to switches between being a menubar extra (only) and a Dock-living app relies on some calls that aren't supported in Mac App store sandbox limitations. So, in order for us to build an app that can be offered in the Mac App Store (where most people go for their apps), we need to comply with Apple's requirements. Skitch 1.x was, in reality, on its way to being rejected for using API calls like this.

 

The idea might arise to "build two different versions", which we practically do today for incidentally App-store related requirements. However it's not currently feasible for us to support the two models, which technically have more under the hood different than might be expected from an external viewpoint.

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Thank you for a straight-up, honest answer (assuming that is the bottom-line reason for that loss of functionality, which I have no reason to doubt). I understand the decision not to support two versions.

 

For a business predicated on elegant design, Apple's prevention of this type of functionality is disappointing to say the least. Perhaps this is collateral damage to some superordinate priority within the Mac App Store (I certainly don't understand enough about API calls and sandboxing to say one way or the other).

 

Thanks again for the direct response, and please keep this on the EN/Skitch radar screen should the ability to reintroduce that functionality open up in the future.

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Something I would like to see (which would incidentally make a workaround for this issue possible) - put more "stuff" in menus that can be accessed via the menubar icon.  I  miss being able to get at "everything" via the menubar icon, the way I can in skitch 1.  (And then the geeky can add the LSUIElementy item to the plist and still have a functiona app).  I realize that these days everyone is trying to have an app that looks the same on a mobile device and a desktop, but what do I have a desktop if I can only get apps that work on a 4-inch screen!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Mal,

 

The reason is a technical one. As far as we can tell today, that the ability to switches between being a menubar extra (only) and a Dock-living app relies on some calls that aren't supported in Mac App store sandbox limitations. So, in order for us to build an app that can be offered in the Mac App Store (where most people go for their apps), we need to comply with Apple's requirements. Skitch 1.x was, in reality, on its way to being rejected for using API calls like this.

 

Panic Transmit and Smile Software TextExpander both seem to use this model and are both available in the Mac App store.

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Hi Mal,

 

The reason is a technical one. As far as we can tell today, that the ability to switches between being a menubar extra (only) and a Dock-living app relies on some calls that aren't supported in Mac App store sandbox limitations. So, in order for us to build an app that can be offered in the Mac App Store (where most people go for their apps), we need to comply with Apple's requirements. Skitch 1.x was, in reality, on its way to being rejected for using API calls like this.

 

The idea might arise to "build two different versions", which we practically do today for incidentally App-store related requirements. However it's not currently feasible for us to support the two models, which technically have more under the hood different than might be expected from an external viewpoint.

 

The reviews in the Mac App Store should tell EN how badly they have botched Skitch 2.0 - an overall rating of 2.5 stars for an app that was BRILLIANT. Essentially, people only give it 1 star or 5, which is crazy (and the ratio is somewhere between 1:1 to 2:1 in favor of the 1 star).

 

So from what you've said, Skitch 2.0 could have remained exclusively a menubar app (like the way it was - super functional). Instead, you made it a hybrid - perhaps for some legitimate business reason (but not because Apple made you), even though there was another option (when you try to serve multiple masters, you serve none).

 

Obviously, there are other changes that loyal users are frustrated with also. I have backed down to Skitch 1.x for now - something I've never done with any other app or os before. Taking chances on innovation is good, but recognizing when you have failed and acknowledging that to yourself (most importantly) is crucial. EN has to be the ultimate arbiter of whether its vision for Skitch 2.0 is a failure, but if the Mac App Store reviews and comments throughout this forum are any indication, the answer is yes. EN is harming its brand with its handling of Skitch - to what degree I'm not sure, but it has definitely hurt itself among its devotees.

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So from what you've said, Skitch 2.0 could have remained exclusively a menubar app (like the way it was - super functional). Instead, you made it a hybrid - perhaps for some legitimate business reason (but not because Apple made you), even though there was another option (when you try to serve multiple masters, you serve none).

 

To clarify a technical point, Skitch 1.x was a hybrid app which could switch between being in the Dock and menubar, or a combo of the two. Skitch 1.x defaulted to being in both places. That is, it appeared in the Dock, and also showed a menu bar extra. To have Skitch 1.x not appear in the Dock requires the user to change their preference (and also some slightly questionable API calls)

 

We continue to look for ways to offer this functionality while still being a good app-store citizen.

 

I, and we, appreciate all the honest feedback our users have given us on 2.0. We have, and will continue to bring back 1.x features and polish. I wrote a bit about this and our plans here.

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@lloydde


 

Panic Transmit and Smile Software TextExpander both seem to use this model and are both available in the Mac App store.

 

Thanks, that's very useful — I'd not realized those apps were doing that. We'll try to chat with the developers on those to see if there's alternative approaches we've yet to find.

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@klang - thanks for the clarification and pointing me to your comments. I look forward to the development of Skitch and ask that, in addition to the items mentioned in that link, you give fair consideration to (1) menubar only functionality (nearly perfect in 1.x imho) and (2) access to history (again, I loved the way that feature work in 1.x).

 

Thanks for acknowledging and responding to all my barking - I did intend for it to be constructive.

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  • 8 months later...
  • 4 months later...

This is such an ongoing frustration.  I set up a lot of macs for friends and family.  I used to insist the add skitch, but not anymore.  I still use 1.x -- it's so incredibly useful as a menubar app.  I cannot stand it as a dock app.

 

If and when the new skitch gives me a menubar only option, I'm back in and will start recommending it again.  Until then, I'm keeping an eye out for another solution.  Evernote integration is nice, but it's not more important than UX.

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This is such an ongoing frustration.  I set up a lot of macs for friends and family.  I used to insist the add skitch, but not anymore.  I still use 1.x -- it's so incredibly useful as a menubar app.  I cannot stand it as a dock app.

 

This is a perfectly serious, non-snarky question: why is Skitch being in the dock a problem? Is it just a personal preference? Or does it interfere with something? Some people in this thread seem to feel very strongly about it and I don't understand why. I'm not trying to judge, just understand. 

 

Best of luck. 

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  • 1 month later...

 

This is such an ongoing frustration.  I set up a lot of macs for friends and family.  I used to insist the add skitch, but not anymore.  I still use 1.x -- it's so incredibly useful as a menubar app.  I cannot stand it as a dock app.

 

This is a perfectly serious, non-snarky question: why is Skitch being in the dock a problem? Is it just a personal preference? Or does it interfere with something? Some people in this thread seem to feel very strongly about it and I don't understand why. I'm not trying to judge, just understand. 

 

Best of luck. 

 

Hi all - I found this thread actually while trying to search for how to remove Skitch from the Dock - well I guess it seems I can't

 

To answer the question I why this is a problem - well I like to keep my Dock minimal. When I first switched I kept lots of apps in the Dock, but I found it distracting. I limited it to just the commonly used apps, but over time paired that down to just what I'm using now. Its a personal preference.

Why Is Skitch a problem in the Dock? Well for the same reason that I don't have 1Password, Fantastical, TextExpander, Evernote and Hazel on my Dock too. I want it out of the way until I need it. I feel the best version of Skitch was 1.x and I still have it on my work laptop. I found it easier to use, the resize function was simpler and so on. Each update of Skitch I've found has lessened the experience. Each to their own I guess

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

This is such an ongoing frustration.  I set up a lot of macs for friends and family.  I used to insist the add skitch, but not anymore.  I still use 1.x -- it's so incredibly useful as a menubar app.  I cannot stand it as a dock app.

 

This is a perfectly serious, non-snarky question: why is Skitch being in the dock a problem? Is it just a personal preference? Or does it interfere with something? Some people in this thread seem to feel very strongly about it and I don't understand why. I'm not trying to judge, just understand. 

 

Best of luck. 

 

 

Sorry it took me so long to reply -- I've been insanely busy and needed to carve out some time to play with both versions again to refresh my memory as to which factors were problematic for me.  I did not take your question as snarky and appreciate the effort to understand.  Here are my thoughts:

 

Principle of Parsimony:  when two roughly equal options are available, the simpler is preferred.  Now, I understand they may not be equal in EN's eyes, but from the end user's standpoint, I can have Skitch in my menu bar only (under old version) or dock + menu bar (new version) [is dock only an option too?].

  • The practical aspect of this is that my cursor is generally hovering in the top half of the screen, so accessing skitch from the menu bar is easier/faster.  Plus, I (like most Westerners I'd imagine) start my screen shot selection (cross-hair snap) in the Top Left corner, again making the access to skitch in the menu bar more economical;
  • So under the current version, I guess the options are Skitch only in dock only or dock + menu bar.  It makes no sense for my work flow to have it in the dock (which I reserve for apps used throughout the day every day -- mission critical, heavy applications).  Of course, I open other heavy apps that exist there temporarily as needed.  The Menu Bar is perfect for light weight apps that are tools used regularly (which is what Skitch is to me).
  • I did a quick check of my memory usage:  old version menu bar only = 13.6 MB vs. new version dock (27.1 MB) + menu bar (4.0 MB) = 31.1 MB.  Maybe not a big deal on my 16GB iMac, but I need all I can get on my 4GB MBA.

For my work flow, which I have worked hard to streamline and maximize, in order to keep up with a law practice, a few start-ups, and other interests/obligations, I have to say Skitch and EN have been very helpful (I was using both before the acquisition).  In order to maintain that flow efficiency, economy of movement, natural movement, not getting annoyed when an app makes do make a movement that isn't economical or natural, minimizing distractions (cluttered dock; hello hot pink icon) are all important factors.

 

I understand that EN can't develop products for every niche group with a gripe.  However, it seems to me that enough people have take their valuable time to note their love of the menu bar only option to merit a deep look at bringing it back.  I used to be a Skitch evangelist -- as more and more of my friends converted to apple products and asked me for help/advice on setting it up, I would always recommend or just install Skitch for them.  Now I may mention Skitch, but tell them to find their own screen shot / mark up app that works for them.  As for me, I'm just kinda in limbo -- the old version is good for now (although I am disappointed not to have EN integration) while I wait for something else to grab my attention.

 

I'm pretty sure adding back the menu bar only option would really change that apathy -- it's that important of a factor to my process.

 

That's my dead honest feedback.  Hope it helps.  Y'all get a lot of things really right -- it just so happens that one of the things that doesn't work for me is one of my favorite / most important features.

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  • 3 months later...

Well I'll just add to the list of people who find this Skitch behavior really annoying.  It just feels like Evernote has a hard time embracing certain OSX mindsets or something... 

 

So yes, PLEASE give us a method, just like many other apps do, where we can have Skitch only accessible from the top menubar.

 

(And while we're at it, could we prevent the damn Skitch window from opening up when I reboot my machine?  This, too, contributes to the ongoing low-level annoyance I feel with Skitch.  Don't speak until you're spoken to!)

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