jfkaess 28 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have been using and been a Premium user of Evernote for almost 3 years. I depend on Evernote, and use it on Windows and iPad. I also have begun using Skitch, Penultimate and Hello as well as several 3rd party iOS apps which integrate to Evernote (Fastever XL, FE Snap, vJournal, Clever HD, and Scanner Pro) I love the capabilities of Evernote and its associated products. I love the multi-platform approach. I appreciate like having all of my information available on any platform and online whenever and wherever I need it. I love the 100 year approach for the future. Here is my chief concern: Evernote as a company has a philosophy of development which seems to have intentionally decided that it is better to continually add features to all of it's products BEFORE squashing the bugs in current versions. I love new features, but because Evernote is so central to everything I do, I am extremely frustrated by this philosophy. Let me elaborate. Here is what it looks like from my perspective: You release a new version of one of your products. I has some bugs and or problems. You then release an update which fixes/squashes some or most of the problems, but at the same time you add new features and create NEW bugs/problems. Lather. rinse, repeat -- ad infinitum. The result? There is almost NEVER a fully functioning version of most of your products that users can depend on to be reliable and bug free. To me, this is a flawed philosophy and I would love to see Evernote be more intentional in fixing bugs/problems BEFORE adding new features. John Kaess Link to comment
jfkaess 28 Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have no want or need for Evernote Business, but I am hopeful that this direction by Evernote will change their philosophy of product development. I can't imagine that businesses will be willing to use a product that is always encumbered with bugs and problems and never available as a solid bug free program, Link to comment
Level 5* Metrodon 2,184 Posted February 9, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever used any software that doesn't have any bugs, or any that doesn't introduce new bugs with new functionality. Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 Seems to me that whether or not Evernote concentrate their efforts on killing bugs in released features, any new development is going to introduce new ones, and possibly destabilise existing services in new and interesting ways. There will always be bugs. Or at least for as long as Evernote continue to strive to improve their products, including redesigning existing processes to make them smoother and faster, there will always be bugs. Evernote could spend more time polishing the existing fittings rather than inventing new ones, but then we wouldn't see the pace of development that has applied over the past few years. I do think they're rather more accessible and responsive than many other software providers. It's a bit like buying a bicycle and complaining that pedaling is too much effort. You can get off and walk, or you can shut up and pedal. These are the choices. Link to comment
jfkaess 28 Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 So, gazumped, you are telling me to shut up or to quit using Evernote? What gives you the right to say that to me? I choose to use Evernote and complain about a flawed development philosophy. Link to comment
jfkaess 28 Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 BTW, gazumped, you have set up a false dichotomy saying that Evernote must choose to either innovate or put out solid products that work well, but that they are incapable of doing both. I reject that false dichotomy. Many companies manage to do both. Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi jfkaess. This is a user forum, so we're all entitled to express our views to see what reactions arise. I have no wish to prevent you from putting forward your opinion, and I actually agree with it to the extent that Evernote is frustrating - like many other packages - in requiring work arounds to a variety of long standing 'features'. However I'm also pointing out that realistically there has to be a trade-off between the speed and scope of development and the ability to eradicate all bugs. I don't believe Evernote will change its policy, and I think the choices I offered are the available options. However I have been wrong before, many many times. We'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment
Level 5 Martin Packer 162 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think a useful approach would be to have Long-Term-Stable releases (much like Firefox's ESR's). That way upgrading is occasional. I expect it would take some work to make that happen - but a semi-annual or annual LTS release would meet the "cut down the whiplash" need some users have. (Maybe many users.) As for me I'd keep going with the high-volume releases until I lost confidence in the safety of my data. But others won't feel that way. Link to comment
Level 5 Martin Packer 162 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5 Share Posted February 10, 2013 And your title isn't bug free, I now notice. :-) Link to comment
Level 5* Metrodon 2,184 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 No one is forced to upgrade at any point - if you are concerned or conservative than stick with a version you are comfortable with. Link to comment
jfkaess 28 Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 That's exactly my point. There ARE no stable releases to stick with. Link to comment
Level 5* Metrodon 2,184 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm sorry, that is complete BS - I'm running the beta of Mac 5.0.6 and it's as stable as any other software I run. Maybe you can point to some killer bugs in the current Prod Windows client that are causing you such heartache? Do you have any open ticket numbers? Link to comment
PeterLondon 34 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever used any software that doesn't have any bugs, or any that doesn't introduce new bugs with new functionality. Metrodon - you are really becoming some sort of troll on these forums. Users are already posting with new bugs introduced with 5.0.6, and EN support staff have posted they will be fixed in the next release: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34718-evernote-506-beta-for-mac/ Every time someone posts here with a complaint against 5.xxx for Mac, you roll up to tell us how wonderful it is and how you never have any issues. You have made over 3,760 posts on these forums in just over a couple of years - don't you have anything better to do? Do you actually have a job? Do you actually use EN on a day to day basis in a professional manner? Note: using EN to file your 3,760 posts on these forums does not count as "professional". It's classed as "troll". Link to comment
Level 5* GrumpyMonkey 4,319 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever used any software that doesn't have any bugs, or any that doesn't introduce new bugs with new functionality. Metrodon - you are really becoming some sort of troll on these forums. Users are already posting with new bugs introduced with 5.0.6, and EN support staff have posted they will be fixed in the next release: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34718-evernote-506-beta-for-mac/ Every time someone posts here with a complaint against 5.xxx for Mac, you roll up to tell us how wonderful it is and how you never have any issues. You have made over 3,760 posts on these forums in just over a couple of years - don't you have anything better to do? Do you actually have a job? Do you actually use EN on a day to day basis in a professional manner? Note: using EN to file your 3,760 posts on these forums does not count as "professional". It's classed as "troll".Hi Peter. I think this thread is mainly focused on the Evernote versions that the OP uses: Windows and iPad. In my experience, the Windows release is extremely stable. I cannot think of any major bugs off the top of my head. I have written extensively on the forums about search issues with Asian characters, and I have several support tickets about them, so I know those are outstanding (I am guessing that it has something to do with improper parsing of quotation marks in exact searches), but I wouldn't call them "stability" issues. I really am not sure what the OP is referring to, and I think Metrodon is equally perplexed. Yes, I have many thousands of posts, and yes I have plenty of things to do, but I also like to help people when I can, so I hang out on these forums. I think Metrodon is in the same boat, and I hope you will look through his posts and reconsider your criticism of him, because I know he has helped a lot of people (including myself). Link to comment
BurgersNFries 2,407 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever used any software that doesn't have any bugs, or any that doesn't introduce new bugs with new functionality.Metrodon - you are really becoming some sort of troll on these forums. Users are already posting with new bugs introduced with 5.0.6, and EN support staff have posted they will be fixed in the next release:http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34718-evernote-506-beta-for-mac/Every time someone posts here with a complaint against 5.xxx for Mac, you roll up to tell us how wonderful it is and how you never have any issues. You have made over 3,760 posts on these forums in just over a couple of years - don't you have anything better to do? Do you actually have a job? Do you actually use EN on a day to day basis in a professional manner?Note: using EN to file your 3,760 posts on these forums does not count as "professional". It's classed as "troll".First, exactly what is wrong with Metrodon's statement? Its pretty spot on, IMO.Second, I've been using the Windows client for several years & it's pretty darned solid. Third, Metrodon has helped a lot of people on this board & certainly more than you have. If you think his posts are so bad, you are welcome to devote time & energy to helping others yourself, rather than criticizing those who do. Link to comment
Level 5 Martin Packer 162 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'd also note that us regulars don't always agree but we have a pretty high standard of debate. The "t" word was pretty uncalled for in my view, especially applied to @Metrodon. Link to comment
Level 5* Metrodon 2,184 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever used any software that doesn't have any bugs, or any that doesn't introduce new bugs with new functionality. Metrodon - you are really becoming some sort of troll on these forums. Users are already posting with new bugs introduced with 5.0.6, and EN support staff have posted they will be fixed in the next release: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34718-evernote-506-beta-for-mac/ Every time someone posts here with a complaint against 5.xxx for Mac, you roll up to tell us how wonderful it is and how you never have any issues. You have made over 3,760 posts on these forums in just over a couple of years - don't you have anything better to do? Do you actually have a job? Do you actually use EN on a day to day basis in a professional manner? Note: using EN to file your 3,760 posts on these forums does not count as "professional". It's classed as "troll". Grow up will you - if you want to get into personal attacks then feel free to PM me and we'll test your level 12 internet skills. I had a number of complaints about V5 of the Mac client that I used a number of posts on here to bring to the development team (whilst I picked my nose and generally wasted time), however much of the functionality that I complained about being removed has been reintroduced and in my experience the client is quicker and more stable than version 3 was. The joy of being pretty good at what I do is that I'm also able to spend a few minutes every day on here trying to help people out and trying to help Evernote build a better product because I find it extremely useful. I understand that not everyone is as bright and talented as me and so you may find it more of a challenge to organise your time well, but you'll get better I'm sure. 5.0.6 is a beta, of course there are bugs. If you are unable to deal with the risk of being on a beta track, then don't be on it. Link to comment
Level 5* JMichaelTX 4,117 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 10, 2013 Back to the topic of this thread, BUGS, I have noticed that Evernote releases have had more bugs per release starting about a year ago. Some of these bugs are quite serious which break common workflows. While it is true that all software has some bugs, the number of bugs, and level of severity, vary considerably. I see an amazing number of bugs that seem to suggest no testing of any kind was done. Recently, updates to the Web clipper were released that made it unusable for most users ( I am NOT exaggerating). How can something like this happen? Over a year ago, I always updated to the latest release of Evernote, even Betas. Most of these had very few bugs and no major bugs. Even the Beta bugs were generally related only to new features being added by that Beta -- the features of the prior production release were generally not affected. IMO, something has definitely changed in the development process of Evernote. The appearance is that the emphasis is on quickly getting out new releases with new features that generate lots of cool reviews and draw new accounts, while not really worrying that much about bugs. Starting about 9 months ago I stopped updating to Beta versions.Starting about 3 months ago I stopped updating to Production versions as soon as they are released. I now have to treat Evernote like I treat Microsoft, and wait at least a few weeks after a Production update to see if it introduced any bugs that would break my workflow. I am still on EN Mac 3.3.0 and EN iOS 4.4.1. Evernote Ver 5 introduced an incredible number of bugs, dropped a number of critical features, and changed the UI without providing any real benefits (in fact, made it harder to use in a number of areas). Link to comment
Level 5 Martin Packer 162 Posted February 10, 2013 Level 5 Share Posted February 10, 2013 @JMichael I would agree the pace of innovation has become somewhat breakneck and stuff happens under those circumstances. I don't object to that. In fact I support this swiftness - code defects, design faux pas and all. Which is why I posited a Long-Term-Stability Release regime for those who aren't so up for this. I would also think some fine tuning of how Evernote communicate with their users would help. Link to comment
Level 5* JMichaelTX 4,117 Posted February 11, 2013 Level 5* Share Posted February 11, 2013 @JMichael I would agree the pace of innovation has become somewhat breakneck and stuff happens under those circumstances. I don't object to that. In fact I support this swiftness - code defects, design faux pas and all.I suspect that the first time you lose data, or your primary workflow is broken, due to this approach, you may change your mind. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.