(Archived) Understanding EN and Program Files (ie Word docs, etc)

[blackcows 9]

I am now about a year into using EN and I must say I love the program. I can honestly say I am about 98% paperless. I still enjoy jotting notes on paper when I am at a meeting but as soon as I get home I scan, tag, and shred. I started out with far to many notebooks, despite many suggestion here, but I am now down to less than 10 and could probably go to 2 or 3 but 10 with tags is fine for me.

Over the last few months I have started to move my program files such as Word docs, Excel docs, etc into EN as a further step in getting my digital life into as few places as possible. After reading a recent thread here I am a bit concerned that I may not be doing this correctly. If I access a Word file via MS Word on my computer, iPad, and\or phone and make changes to said file are those changes always saved to a single file?

My confusion is because I was reading a thread about the EN attachments file and how somebody wanted to the EN program to point to a location of a file rather than have the file in the attachments folder? Here is what I think/hope is going on with my document\files in EN. I take file labeled "mike.doc" and save it to EN by dragging it to my EN import folder, then I delete the original file. If I want to use the file I find it through EN, I edit, I save, and I move on. My assumption is that EN has moved the file to somewhere in it's database and any changes I make are now saved to the cloud? Is all of this correct? I know I could use Dropbox and do this but my thought is why use two progams when I could just use one?

Mike

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Hi Mke. Files are saved in Evernote. These are opened by the appropriate applications on your desktop (like Word), but saved back into their original locations inside Evernote. Your plan sounds like it will work.

However, if you look on the forums you will find a lot of good advice about backing up, having multiple copies of all your digital files in multiple physical locations, and ideas for using both Dropbox and Evernote to take advantage of their respective strengths. I recommend giving a look at these posts.

Here are some reflections I had on my account a few months ago (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29245-how-to-optimize-your-evernote-experience/#entry173506�). It is a little extreme, perhaps, but my system of keeping attachments out of my Evernote account is working well for my particular use case and situation.

[jefito 5,589]

On the Windows client: When you add a file/document/etc. to an Evernote note, it is stored in the Evernote database (not in the Attachments folder). If you activate the attachment, say by double clicking on it, you cause Evernote to find a handler program for that file type, and if found, save the file to disk somewhere (the Attachments folder, I believe), and invoke the handling program on that file. Edit away, and when you're done, save (not Save As). You'll save back to the Attachments folder, and Evernote will notice that the file is changed, and pull it back in. At some point the updated note is synced to the cloud. That's how it works in most cases, anyways.

[C6REW 416]

It may have been my thread that you read and I think unless I am reading this wrong there may be an misunderstanding of what you want to do.

What I have done in the past (and believe it is the same as you) is have a number of folders on my hard drive with Word documents. Whenever I wanted to change these it was simple open, change and then save.

The problem comes when you want to 'link' to a folder by using the 'import folder' function into Evernote.

If you now go and change the document by opening it in it's normal location as you had in the past, it will create a note every time you 'save' the document. You can prove this by creating a new 'Notebook' creating a Word document and saving in your normal file structure. I suggest you create a new folder. 'Link' the folder to the new 'Notebook' using the 'import folder' function.

Then open the document from your normal hard drive folder system. Make a change and press save. You will now see a new 'note' in the 'notebook' you created!

Not a problem, but you need to change the way you work! If you want to make a change to the Word document, just go to the 'Notebook' in Evernote, open the 'Note' then open the Word document. Assuming you are as implied by where you created this thread doing all this in Windows, it will just open up your Microsoft Word and you can work on the document. Every time you save, it will just be updated to Evernote and not duplicated as a new note.

You could do all of this via the 'Evernote' stored folder on your Hard Drive as well, but this seems to defeat the ease of finding the document within Evernote to me.

Hope that helps.

Best regards

Chris

[blackcows 9]

Hi Mke. Files are saved in Evernote. These are opened by the appropriate applications on your desktop (like Word), but saved back into their original locations inside Evernote. Your plan sounds like it will work.

However, if you look on the forums you will find a lot of good advice about backing up, having multiple copies of all your digital files in multiple physical locations, and ideas for using both Dropbox and Evernote to take advantage of their respective strengths. I recommend giving a look at these posts.

Here are some reflections I had on my account a few months ago (http://discussion.ev...e/#entry173506�). It is a little extreme, perhaps, but my system of keeping attachments out of my Evernote account is working well for my particular use case and situation.

GrumpyMonkey...thanks for the reply. I had an opportunity to read through the post that you referenced and it was informative. Even though I put "everything" in EN I consider myself a minimalist so I don't really have that large of a database. I just looked and right now I am almost done with my monthly cycle and have added less than 100mb for the month. I have about 4000 notes although most were added last fall when I started EN. I understand the idea of keeping 2 copies of a file but in my opinion that is almost the same as keeping 2 calenders....an invitation for trouble in my system. My concern is that I update one but not the other, etc. I understand I could put a system in place for updating one and copying to the other but instead of making things more simple that will probably make things more complicated.

On the Windows client: When you add a file/document/etc. to an Evernote note, it is stored in the Evernote database (not in the Attachments folder). If you activate the attachment, say by double clicking on it, you cause Evernote to find a handler program for that file type, and if found, save the file to disk somewhere (the Attachments folder, I believe), and invoke the handling program on that file. Edit away, and when you're done, save (not Save As). You'll save back to the Attachments folder, and Evernote will notice that the file is changed, and pull it back in. At some point the updated note is synced to the cloud. That's how it works in most cases, anyways.

Thanks, that makes sense. Any idea where the file is actually saved in EN?

It may have been my thread that you read and I think unless I am reading this wrong there may be an misunderstanding of what you want to do.

What I have done in the past (and believe it is the same as you) is have a number of folders on my hard drive with Word documents. Whenever I wanted to change these it was simple open, change and then save.

The problem comes when you want to 'link' to a folder by using the 'import folder' function into Evernote.

If you now go and change the document by opening it in it's normal location as you had in the past, it will create a note every time you 'save' the document. You can prove this by creating a new 'Notebook' creating a Word document and saving in your normal file structure. I suggest you create a new folder. 'Link' the folder to the new 'Notebook' using the 'import folder' function.

Then open the document from your normal hard drive folder system. Make a change and press save. You will now see a new 'note' in the 'notebook' you created!

Not a problem, but you need to change the way you work! If you want to make a change to the Word document, just go to the 'Notebook' in Evernote, open the 'Note' then open the Word document. Assuming you are as implied by where you created this thread doing all this in Windows, it will just open up your Microsoft Word and you can work on the document. Every time you save, it will just be updated to Evernote and not duplicated as a new note.

You could do all of this via the 'Evernote' stored folder on your Hard Drive as well, but this seems to defeat the ease of finding the document within Evernote to me.

Hope that helps.

Best regards

Chris

Thanks Chris, when I started using EN I added an import folder to my desktop called Evernote Import, any file I want to add to EN I drop in that file. I have that import folder set up to delete the file from the original location so the only copy I have of the file is in EN so my EN import folder is always empty so based on what you are saying I don't think I would have any concerns.

To All....thanks for the helpful posts. I have read several posts on the forum and do understand that some people like to keep an additional copy of a file outside of EN for backup purposes but in my opinion, as I said before, it is like keeping two calendars...just an opportunity for trouble in my system. I guess an argument could be made that I am putting a lot of faith in EN by keeping my only copy of a document within EN but in reality I am doing this with all ~4000 notes I have in EN. One of my goals for this week is to make sure I have a reasonable backup plan for all of my data and I plan on doing some reading on the forum. My EN plan is fairly simplistic, I have a Windows Home Server that backs up my PC each night and that included a copy of the EN database, I also have my local copy on my PC, and the cloud copy that EN keeps so I have basically have 3 copies of my EN database....does this seem like a reasonable backup strategy?

Thanks again,

Mike

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

One of my goals for this week is to make sure I have a reasonable backup plan for all of my data and I plan on doing some reading on the forum. My EN plan is fairly simplistic, I have a Windows Home Server that backs up my PC each night and that included a copy of the EN database, I also have my local copy on my PC, and the cloud copy that EN keeps so I have basically have 3 copies of my EN database....does this seem like a reasonable backup strategy?

Yes. It sounds quite reasonable. This plan also generates multiple copies of files (via the backup), so it ought to also ensure that your files are not lost. My only concern at this point is that you don't just have a backup file overwriting itself, but that you have a backup with versions (something like Time Machine on the Mac -- I hear Genie on Windows is a similar solution). The idea here is that if something happens to a file (corrupted, hacked, or lost) you can go back in time to a point at which you had it and recover the file. Again, this isn't good just for Evernote, but for every file on your drive.

As for the physical locations, it sounds insufficient to me unless the backups are located in at least two different places (office / home or safe deposit box / home). Otherwise, in the event of a fire, zombie apocalypse, or some other catastrophic event then you will lose everything.

[jefito 5,589]

On the Windows client: When you add a file/document/etc. to an Evernote note, it is stored in the Evernote database (not in the Attachments folder). If you activate the attachment, say by double clicking on it, you cause Evernote to find a handler program for that file type, and if found, save the file to disk somewhere (the Attachments folder, I believe), and invoke the handling program on that file. Edit away, and when you're done, save (not Save As). You'll save back to the Attachments folder, and Evernote will notice that the file is changed, and pull it back in. At some point the updated note is synced to the cloud. That's how it works in most cases, anyways.

Thanks, that makes sense. Any idea where the file is actually saved in EN?

It's stored literally in the database file, and not in the Windows file system. This is a SQLLite database with extension .exb, that you can locate using Tools / Options / Open Database Folder.

[blackcows 9]

One of my goals for this week is to make sure I have a reasonable backup plan for all of my data and I plan on doing some reading on the forum. My EN plan is fairly simplistic, I have a Windows Home Server that backs up my PC each night and that included a copy of the EN database, I also have my local copy on my PC, and the cloud copy that EN keeps so I have basically have 3 copies of my EN database....does this seem like a reasonable backup strategy?

Yes. It sounds quite reasonable. This plan also generates multiple copies of files (via the backup), so it ought to also ensure that your files are not lost. My only concern at this point is that you don't just have a backup file overwriting itself, but that you have a backup with versions (something like Time Machine on the Mac -- I hear Genie on Windows is a similar solution). The idea here is that if something happens to a file (corrupted, hacked, or lost) you can go back in time to a point at which you had it and recover the file. Again, this isn't good just for Evernote, but for every file on your drive.

As for the physical locations, it sounds insufficient to me unless the backups are located in at least two different places (office / home or safe deposit box / home). Otherwise, in the event of a fire, zombie apocalypse, or some other catastrophic event then you will lose everything.

Would you not consider the EN cloud, or whatever the proper term is, an offsite backup?

The Windows Home Server keeps multiple backups which would protect from the situations you describe.

Mike

[blackcows 9]

On the Windows client: When you add a file/document/etc. to an Evernote note, it is stored in the Evernote database (not in the Attachments folder). If you activate the attachment, say by double clicking on it, you cause Evernote to find a handler program for that file type, and if found, save the file to disk somewhere (the Attachments folder, I believe), and invoke the handling program on that file. Edit away, and when you're done, save (not Save As). You'll save back to the Attachments folder, and Evernote will notice that the file is changed, and pull it back in. At some point the updated note is synced to the cloud. That's how it works in most cases, anyways.

Thanks, that makes sense. Any idea where the file is actually saved in EN?

It's stored literally in the database file, and not in the Windows file system. This is a SQLLite database with extension .exb, that you can locate using Tools / Options / Open Database Folder.

Thanks, I found the file but it appears there is no way to open it and actually see the files such as mike.doc or mike.xls?

[jefito 5,589]

Thanks, I found the file but it appears there is no way to open it and actually see the files such as mike.doc or mike.xls?

It's a database file. You need a specific program to open it directly. Evernote uses a library to access the file, but you can find a SQLLite database program online if you really really feel the need to open the database. Even so, you probably won't be able to find the exact attachment files in the database -- they may be encoded in the note contents, as you see them if you expost a note with attachments to Evernote format (.enex).

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

One of my goals for this week is to make sure I have a reasonable backup plan for all of my data and I plan on doing some reading on the forum. My EN plan is fairly simplistic, I have a Windows Home Server that backs up my PC each night and that included a copy of the EN database, I also have my local copy on my PC, and the cloud copy that EN keeps so I have basically have 3 copies of my EN database....does this seem like a reasonable backup strategy?

Yes. It sounds quite reasonable. This plan also generates multiple copies of files (via the backup), so it ought to also ensure that your files are not lost. My only concern at this point is that you don't just have a backup file overwriting itself, but that you have a backup with versions (something like Time Machine on the Mac -- I hear Genie on Windows is a similar solution). The idea here is that if something happens to a file (corrupted, hacked, or lost) you can go back in time to a point at which you had it and recover the file. Again, this isn't good just for Evernote, but for every file on your drive.

As for the physical locations, it sounds insufficient to me unless the backups are located in at least two different places (office / home or safe deposit box / home). Otherwise, in the event of a fire, zombie apocalypse, or some other catastrophic event then you will lose everything.

Would you not consider the EN cloud, or whatever the proper term is, an offsite backup?

The Windows Home Server keeps multiple backups which would protect from the situations you describe.

Mike

Well, it is up to you, but in my experience, backing up is an exceedingly easy thing to do (nowadays) and it adds an extra layer of safety with at least two physical locations. I have known of people involved in unexpected natural disasters who have lost all of their data. They didn't have their stuff on the cloud, though. Cloud services (Google or Dropbox) have corrupted my files in the past (PDF files). So, I am extremely leery of all-eggs-in-one-basket solutions.

[flaneige 13]

Just a little warning.

When you edit a file stored in a note, beware of saving the file before exiting Evernote. If not, the changes are lost.