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(Archived) Evernote 5.0.4 for Mac


Jackolicious

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Hi everyone,

We are happy to announce that we just released Evernote for Mac 5.0.4 via direct download from our website: http://evernote.com/...ile=EvernoteMac

It addresses a lot of speed/stability concerns as well as AppleScript bugs and CJK search highlighting issues. Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement. For this release, stability was of the utmost importance and hopefully, this release reinforces that commitment to our most important stakeholders: you.

Thanks for all your feedback and enjoy!

Jack

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Now, in most cases, people are fixed . . .

Is that like having your cat "fixed"? :D

Sorry, couldn't resist this feeble attempt at humor. But since this is such a serious subject, maybe a little laugh will help. ;)

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Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement.

"It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words."

Syme. From the novel 1984 by George Orwell 1903 -1950.

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  • Level 5*

Hi everyone,

We are happy to announce that we just released Evernote for Mac 5.0.4 via direct download from our website: http://evernote.com/...ile=EvernoteMac

It addresses a lot of speed/stability concerns as well as AppleScript bugs and CJK search highlighting issues. Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement. For this release, stability was of the utmost importance and hopefully, this release reinforces that commitment to our most important stakeholders: you.

Thanks for all your feedback and enjoy!

Jack

Good job Jack. Thanks for working quickly to remedy the problems. Extensive use of the app since the overhaul has not changed my dissatisfaction with some of the design decisions (I expressed these earlier), but I won't recite the litany again here, unless you would like to read through the list again!

BUG: New note focus

- If I make a new note, sometimes the new note disappears before I can even type the title, and I have to go hunting for it.

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  • Level 5*

Hi everyone,

We are happy to announce that we just released Evernote for Mac 5.0.4 via direct download from our website: http://evernote.com/...ile=EvernoteMac

It addresses a lot of speed/stability concerns as well as AppleScript bugs and CJK search highlighting issues. Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement. For this release, stability was of the utmost importance and hopefully, this release reinforces that commitment to our most important stakeholders: you.

Thanks for all your feedback and enjoy!

Jack

Jack, if it turns out to be a true stability fix, and doesn't introduce more bugs than it fixes, then I will be more than happy to applaud your speedy recovery.

I'm still running EN Mac v3 on my primary Mac. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and if after a few days it looks like there are no new major issues withVer 5.0.4, then I'll update my test Mac for further evaluation.

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Jack, if it turns out to be a true stability fix, and doesn't introduce more bugs than it fixes, then I will be more than happy to applaud your speedy recovery.

I'm still running EN Mac v3 on my primary Mac. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and if after a few days it looks like there are no new major issues withVer 5.0.4, then I'll update my test Mac for further evaluation.

In the good old days it was only the iOS client you took a risk updating day one of release. Then Mac joined the party and some of us sat smugly using Windows without issues. Even Grumpy sort refuge in Windows, but we too cannot upgrade now without bugs and missing features.... I find myself evaluating versions on test machines and squirrelling away versions, that work, in case I need them later?!#

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Jack, if it turns out to be a true stability fix, and doesn't introduce more bugs than it fixes, then I will be more than happy to applaud your speedy recovery.

I'm still running EN Mac v3 on my primary Mac. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and if after a few days it looks like there are no new major issues withVer 5.0.4, then I'll update my test Mac for further evaluation.

In the good old days it was only the iOS client you took a risk updating day one of release. Then Mac joined the party and some of us sat smugly using Windows without issues. Even Grumpy sort refuge in Windows, but we too cannot upgrade now without bugs and missing features....

Now, now. I am not using Windows because of any stability issues. To be sure, I have had a fair number of bugs, but nothing especially bad. The issue for me has been more a lack of features that will help me get stuff done. I have a pretty strong opinion about certain things in the app (I've already gone into the details over the last year or so in excruciating detail, so I think Jack knows what I am talking about), and the Windows version fits my use case better right now than the Mac version.

I will say that I remain very concerned about a bug that doesn't get mentioned too much in these beta threads. The unreliability of searches (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/32709-search-problems-japanese-in-quotation-marks/#entry177496) right now is causing me no end of headaches, but I think all of the clients are implicated in this problem -- some definitely have much more trouble than others, but it is not clear to me which one (if any) is returning the "correct" search results. As I've been reporting search problems for a very long time now, and the developers have long been working on them, I suspect the problems are either insurmountable, or the error is in the user, who doesn't know how to properly search.

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The trouble with rapid turn around is the "consumability" of it: Don't pity me but it's a pain on slow "broad"band to update. And then there's the risk introduced through software change.

Not that I'm complaining: I'm pleased you're rapidly fixing the issues others have uncovered. If you can make the updates incremental that'll help. But won't mitigate the churn risk.

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Now, now. I am not using Windows because of any stability issues. To be sure, I have had a fair number of bugs, but nothing especially bad. The issue for me has been more a lack of features that will help me get stuff done. I have a pretty strong opinion about certain things in the app (I've already gone into the details over the last year or so in excruciating detail, so I think Jack knows what I am talking about), and the Windows version fits my use case better right now than the Mac version.

I will say that I remain very concerned about a bug that doesn't get mentioned too much in these beta threads. The unreliability of searches (http://discussion.ev...ks/#entry177496) right now is causing me no end of headaches, but I think all of the clients are implicated in this problem -- some definitely have much more trouble than others, but it is not clear to me which one (if any) is returning the "correct" search results. As I've been reporting search problems for a very long time now, and the developers have long been working on them, I suspect the problems are either insurmountable, or the error is in the user, who doesn't know how to properly search.

@Grumpy I fully understand your use of Windows EN is related to lack of features! (not bugs). I don't think I said otherwise, although it could have been construed. ;)

BUT I think you are being rather too kind saying 'lack of features' when in reality it was the REMOVAL OF FEATURES that determined your solace in Windows.

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@Grumpy I fully understand your use of Windows EN is related to lack of features! (not bugs). I don't think I said otherwise, although it could have been construed. ;)

BUT I think you are being rather too kind saying 'lack of features' when in reality it was the REMOVAL OF FEATURES that determined your solace in Windows.

Japanese search issues aside, the sort features and vertical list view that GM prefers in the Windows client were never in the Mac client. You can argue client parity if you want but it's not a feature removal issue.

ETA: Not that I want to speak for GM. Just my observations from watching you guys hammer away at him. :)

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@Tardis I hope Grumpy doesn't feel we are hammering away at him... its just a bit of fun? its just his reality is a bit rose tinted. GM if I'm out of line just let me know.

I and I'm sure many others appreciate GM's contributions. He is consistent, informed, polite and welcoming. :)

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Hi! Hammer away :)

I've had to make several adjustments due to feature removals and design changes, and I would have preferred not to make them, but it's OK.

For example, we can no longer edit saved searches on OSX, and we can't modify them on iOS (adding additional terms in the search field), so they are a lot less functional for me. I now have all of my main searches in one "saved search" note. I copy / paste from there.

The search automatically includes joined notebooks in OSX now, and you can only remove them in sorts. It turns out to be quite inconvenient, so I just removed all of my joined notebooks. There are viable workarounds for everything, and I may just be an edge case, so I'm not going to push my stuff onto the developers.

In part it is about design choices, in part it is about feature parity, but it isn't about the app being "bad." It does what it does, but what it does fits less an less with what I want it to do :)

I figure that Windows pretty much has everything i need, so at this point it is just easier for me to use it via parallels.

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....the sort features and vertical list view that GM prefers in the Windows client were never in the Mac client. You can argue client parity if you want but it's not a feature removal issue.

Sorry Tardis... I have checked my wife's Macbook and can confirm Mac version 3.3 had List, Snippet and Card view. As far as sorting is concerned by any column (in ascending or descending).

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Sorry Tardis... I have checked my wife's Macbook and can confirm Mac version 3.3 had List, Snippet and Card view. As far as sorting is concerned by any column (in ascending or descending).

Right. But not the vertical list view. Nor has the Mac client ever had the same number of sorting options that Windows has.

I've been using the Mac client since the day it was released. I have a pretty good idea which version has had what.

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@Tardis OK I'm using the Windows client mainly and I'm about to make a fool of myself :wacko: but WTF are you talking about? (can't see much difference between 3.3 Mac and 4.5 Windows)

Have you got a screenshot?

I don't want to speak for Tardis, because my memory of using Evernote on the Mac is not terribly good before Snow Leopard, but basically, what I want to see is a Vertical List View and a full range of sorts on the Mac, and I believe that he is correct in saying they have never been in the Mac version. There are many more things, but these are the basic ones that (to me) seem the most obvious targets of any attempt to have parity among the Evernote clients. After that, we could go with information density, contrast (less gray on gray), etc.

Here is a screenshot of two recent versions of the app, which you probably have access to, but you may not be familiar with the "secret", oral transmission of the Vertical List View in Windows.

http://www.evernote....95698bf3329fdbd

[EDIT:] Tardis beat me to it :)

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I don't want to speak for Tardis, because my memory of using Evernote on the Mac is not terribly good before Snow Leopard, but basically, what I want to see is a Vertical List View and a full range of sorts on the Mac, and I believe that he is correct in saying they have never been in the Mac version. There are many more things, but these are the basic ones that (to me) seem the most obvious targets of any attempt to have parity among the Evernote clients. After that, we could go with information density, contrast (less gray on gray), etc.

Here is a screenshot of two recent versions of the app, which you probably have access to, but you may not be familiar with the "secret", oral transmission of the Vertical List View in Windows.

http://www.evernote....95698bf3329fdbd

[EDIT:] Tardis beat me to it :)

I agree completely. At least where your ideas for improving the Mac client are concerned. (Not so much where you refer to me as "he." :) )

Thanks for adding those two extra screenshots. I have them saved but had lost the URL. Those screenshots give the clearest picture of the differences between the client views.

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I have almost entirely stopped using saved searches for various reasons, . . .

This is HUGE! With any database app ( and I've used many, designed a few), having Saved Searches (we used to call them Saved Queries) is one of the key features to making the DB really useful, and providing quick, reliable access to datasets (reports) that the user often needs to generate.

Sometimes the Search can be complex, so being able to reliably Save an Run the Search is very important.

It was huge for me! That's why I stumbled a bit at first.

If you look through the beta threads I think you'll find me asking about saved searches almost from the first post. Because we had no note numbers at the time, I couldn't figure out why everything was not working correctly, and once the numbers came back, I realized that it was all of my joined notebooks throwing things out of whack. I tried to edit the searches, found out that you can't, and also discovered around that time that the iOS won't let you modify saved searches (adding or subtracting query elements), so I decided the Saved Searches no longer fit my use case. Eventually, I decided to start collecting my saved searches into a single "saved search" note. This workaround has been very useful for me, as my queries tend to be quite long, and I think only 15 characters or so will fit into the tiny search field on the iPad. It's not ideal, but it works fine for me.

Change is always disruptive, and I expect I'll have to adjust my usage to any new UI. Still, I think it is worthwhile for us to voice our concerns, provide details about our use case, and explain how the UI is not serving our purposes. In the end, though, the developers make the decisions, and they have to weigh a bunch of factors. Now that we have gone a few months with the new UI, I figure it is better to use my time developing workarounds and getting on with my work, because I don't think I was able to make a convincing case for changing the UI.

Maybe someone else can! The developers are reading and listening, so if you haven't voiced your concerns, I encourage people to do so.

It is still possible to save searches via menu: EDIT-->Find-->Save Search Right?

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I have almost entirely stopped using saved searches for various reasons, . . .

This is HUGE! With any database app ( and I've used many, designed a few), having Saved Searches (we used to call them Saved Queries) is one of the key features to making the DB really useful, and providing quick, reliable access to datasets (reports) that the user often needs to generate.

Sometimes the Search can be complex, so being able to reliably Save an Run the Search is very important.

It was huge for me! That's why I stumbled a bit at first.

If you look through the beta threads I think you'll find me asking about saved searches almost from the first post. Because we had no note numbers at the time, I couldn't figure out why everything was not working correctly, and once the numbers came back, I realized that it was all of my joined notebooks throwing things out of whack. I tried to edit the searches, found out that you can't, and also discovered around that time that the iOS won't let you modify saved searches (adding or subtracting query elements), so I decided the Saved Searches no longer fit my use case. Eventually, I decided to start collecting my saved searches into a single "saved search" note. This workaround has been very useful for me, as my queries tend to be quite long, and I think only 15 characters or so will fit into the tiny search field on the iPad. It's not ideal, but it works fine for me.

Change is always disruptive, and I expect I'll have to adjust my usage to any new UI. Still, I think it is worthwhile for us to voice our concerns, provide details about our use case, and explain how the UI is not serving our purposes. In the end, though, the developers make the decisions, and they have to weigh a bunch of factors. Now that we have gone a few months with the new UI, I figure it is better to use my time developing workarounds and getting on with my work, because I don't think I was able to make a convincing case for changing the UI.

Maybe someone else can! The developers are reading and listening, so if you haven't voiced your concerns, I encourage people to do so.

It is still possible to save searches via menu: EDIT-->Find-->Save Search Right?

Yep!

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Can't find a dedicated place to post these on the forum, so here are some suggestions for the Mac client (would be great to get a response as to feasibility):

1. Multiple text selection: support highlighting several separate snippets of text at once (using command-click, as used in other applications like Textedit and MS Word)

2. Option to sync on file-save (only if changes made, of course)

3. Better support pasting from Textedit .rtfd document- while the "simplify formatting of pasted content" option helps, it can't properly take bold/italics/underline, font size information, line indents, AND text wrapping from a textedit document and paste it with the same bold/italics/underline, font size information, line indents, AND text wrapping no matter how you do it. Converting the document to plain text in textedit and then copy-pasting it into Evernote is the best way I've found, but that involves lots of manual reformatting in Evernote afterward, so it would be nice to get a straight copy-paste from an .rtfd document working.

(Using the latest versions of Evernote on Mac on OSX 10.8.2 as of the date of this posting).

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Well, no one but the Evernote folks really know why they made the changes. In one of the "Meet the Designer" videos, they said they had to update it to support some of the major new features like Evernote Business and Sharing.

If that were the reason for EN making the UI more "playful" and removing "power" features, then shouldn't it affect all platforms equally, not only, or predominantly, Mac and iOS which were already less powerful (fewer sort options etc) than Windows and Android? Also, I would have thought that updating EN to support Business would mean making EN more business like, not less.

The clients are all updated independently, and even thoughh this time the OSX and iOS ones seem loosely coordinated, the Android and Windows clients probably will not follow the same pattern.

In additon, there are major changes to the API and so forth that affect clients differently in the background, like the raising of note size limits on some clients and not on others. As far as I know, this has not been officially announced.

However, as you correctly pointed out, if the idea is to have parity across clients (this has been mentioned by staff as a goal) and Mac / iOS just updated this way, then there is naturally a concern that rather than add features to the OSX and iOS clients to achieve the goal, features will be removed from all clients to do it. I certainly hope not, but technically speaking, fewer sort options (however lamentablle) would not make it less business-like.

Rather than argue at a general level of abstraction, I recommend providing specific use cases, and clearly explaining how the current UI is not meeting your needs. I doubt general arguments will be persuasive, but as with the navigation buttons lost in the original OSX update, everyone who had designed Evernote to work as a personal wiki could no longer navigate, and it even went against the intentions of the buttons, which were rolled out in the first place to aid with the use of note links. I think a compelling case was made for putting the buttons back into the app. I have not yet been able to make a convincing enough case for list view, more sorts, etc., but maybe you can with your use case!

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If they have a winning formula - which they had - why change ANYTHING at all? Except perhaps to ADD features that weren't there? And why change the UI at all?

Well, no one but the Evernote folks really know why they made the changes. In one of the "Meet the Designer" videos, they said they had to update it to support some of the major new features like Evernote Business and Sharing.

Don't know if this is true in this case, but I have seen companies make updates driven mostly by marketing considerations. While number of Evernote users seems to continue to grow at exponential rates, one way to make sure you continue to get the attention of reviewers, bloggers, and therefore VC people, is to keep making changes. Everytime you put out a new version there is a new opportunity for interviews, etc.

Of course there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Auto manufacturers have been putting out new models with the only real change being the shape and color of the car for years. The problem, of course, is when you put out a fancy new model, but you have removed some features that your customers had come to depend on.

Here's an example: at some point Lexus decided to provide navigation systems with the data stored on a hard drive, rather than a DVD as they had previously. Which is really good, except they did not provide any way for the owner to update the navigation maps, except by paying the dealer to do the update, causing a waste of time and money.

One of the fundamental problems that has becomed enabled by wide-spread access to a high-speed Internet is that software updates can be made easily and frequently for very little production/delivery costs. While I very much like this for easy/quick fixes to bugs, it has promoted a much more frequent sofware update process, which, in turn, has allowed, or even encouraged, much less testing and QA prior to public release. To be honest I think these very frequent updates result in lower quality designs and many more bugs than with a longer development cycle. It simply becomes to costly to repeat the exhaustive design and code testing that is really needed. Often a design that looks cool in mockup and prototype turns out to not work that well in the real world with real users.

Good design is both difficult and iterative.

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@Rex: I just LOVE your writing - let me know when you write your next book, as I will definitely be buying a copy. I haven't chuckled so much reading a software forum before..

@Luckman212: excellent point you raise. While each paying customer may be made to feel that as they only pay $5 a month they shouldn't expect too much, but we need to look at the equation from the other side, as you correctly point out. And I STILL don't "get" why a company would actually REMOVE features that were present in previous realeses, that worked, and that helped make Evernote the success it is today.

If they have a winning formula - which they had - why change ANYTHING at all? Except perhaps to ADD features that weren't there? And why change the UI at all?

Just doesn't make sense to me - not even for $5 a month.

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I'm not at all with you guys jumping on the "what do you expect for $5/month" bandwagon. Five bucks is basically at the high end of what I spend monthly on any particular piece of software on my machines. Be they online backup ($3.96 with Backblaze), hosted email ($4.16 with Google Apps), or yearly updates/upgrades to various shareware products that I use. How much SHOULD one pay to have properly functioning software, that is thoroughly QA tested, with feature adds/removes and UI/UX overhauls carefully rolled out?

I hear the cries of the software devs saying they wouldn't lift a finger for $5. I get that, neither would I. However EN isn't selling into a market of 1 person. They have over 45 million users according to this recent article. According to this article, around 25% of those users are PAYING customers. So the paper-napkin math tells me that this is a company that is sucking in $675,000,000 (yes that's $675 million bucks) a year and that is just from user subs alone, that doesn't take into account any other licensing, investments, partnerships and what-have-you.

What do I expect of a software company with well over half a BILLION in annual revenue? A lot actually, and you all should too. We're not talking about mom-and-pop developer with their handful of clients, rolling custom software -- this is a huge company folks. At the very least, you'd think they could throw a few mil towards proper QA and some more A/B testing with real users to determine when a feature should be kept or binned.

Too much to ask?

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Ok...I came here to ask a question about 5.0.4, but hope I'm not interrupting anything, lol.

Has anyone found the new version to run slow? I am on a Mac, running Mountain Lion, and upgraded from 5.0.3 to 5.0.4. Now, when using the search box to look for something in EN, it sometimes lags, and I can watch it type many seconds afterwards. Wondering if it's EN, or my Mac, or both. Have you had any issues with 5.0.4 like this?

Thanks so much!

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So the bottom line is - WHY? Just "WHY"???

I have to agree NightStalker. It's a total mystery. I think perhaps that bosses of companies go to too many developer conferences etc., and read too much on the net from the "experts". These people are always trying to push the latest buzz-words and telling everyone they have to be at the cutting edge, and if they don't "move" in the water like sharks they will be dead.

So they feel they must be "doing" something the whole time.

I'm a reasonably intelligent sort of guy, and fairly well read etc. I studied Computing & Electronics at University. But I read pieces on the web which are incomprehensible gobbledy-*****. I often just don't know what these folks are talking about.

Now for developers, they want to be seen to be following or creating the latest fashions; and/or having done something new and "fresh". They often care about that far more than whether the app actually works well or not. It's what their peers think that counts. And maybe they'll only be with EN for a couple of years and then they'll move-on; so they want to make their "mark". Or in this case, a little pile of smelly dog-*****.

I work in the office building sector, and I often have to get office space fitted-out. You have to be very, very careful with the interior designers, as they will easily get totally carried away, and design something that may win awards and get in the design mags; but will be totally, totally impracticable for a work-space.

The amazing thing is, that this EN 5.0 debacle seems just like the Skitch 2.0 mess: the same terrible mess-up of functions and design. So perhaps there is some hope they will back-track.

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OK - I think in deference to Jack, we should stop complaining about the new versions more generally on this thread - it's a thread for v5.0.4 on the Mac.

I think he's got the point. Whether or not anything gets done about the point is another matter, but at Jack's suggestion, maybe we should have a thread where we can discuss the more general complaints (and praise where it's due) with him.

Sorry Jack - looks like we "Hi Jack" 'd the thread (arrgghh - sorry, couldn't resist ;) )

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Not sure if this is new to 5.0.4, but I just noticed it for the first time: if you paste a note link into a bullet list, it just pastes the name of the note, not the link.

If you paste a note link into normal, non-bulleted text it works correctly.

I'll also throw together a quick ticket. This is on 5.0.4 Mac.

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Ok...I came here to ask a question about 5.0.4, but hope I'm not interrupting anything, lol.

Has anyone found the new version to run slow? I am on a Mac, running Mountain Lion, and upgraded from 5.0.3 to 5.0.4. Now, when using the search box to look for something in EN, it sometimes lags, and I can watch it type many seconds afterwards. Wondering if it's EN, or my Mac, or both. Have you had any issues with 5.0.4 like this?

Thanks so much!

Yes. However, Windows is much, much slower. It lags a terrible amount, and I haven't had a chance yet to mess around with the registry.

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To answer my own question, the problem with Snow Leopard (local database in 5.0.3 was "locked" against tagging and against filing into notebooks, and sync was not working) is FIXED. However, even if you downgraded to 5.0.1 to get around this problem, simply updating to 5.0.4 will result in a locked up local db. What you need to do is trash your ~/Library/Application Support/Evernote folder and download your database fresh from Evernote.

I only updated a few minutes ago, but so far I haven't seen a problem with tagging, filing, or syncing.

THANKS for the incredibly rapid fix for Snow Leopard users.

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Is the configurable tool bar gone forever?

Is 5.xx intended to be just a "pretty face" and the feature deletions are a permanent design decision?

First rule of design and medicine: "If it's not broken, don't fix it" aka "first, do no harm".

I've got to agree with many other posters - WHY?

I'm staying with 3.3 until someone at EN gets a good night sleep, steps back from the edge and either realizes they've broken something that worked, or makes a much more compelling case for v5 than has been made thus far.

Jack: Stick to customer support because the spin you tried to put on this mess at the top of this thread further eroded EN's credibility. Someone else got to the Orwell quote before me, but it is spot on.

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BUG: 0 Notes

Is anyone else finding themselves chucked out of a note in the middle of editing and thrown into a screen that says "0 Notes"? I reported this a few times already (I think), but what happens is that I will search for something like intitle:journal, I will locate the note I want to edit, and I will be editing it, but then suddenly it disappears and I have nothing in the right pane, and the center pane says "0 Notes," so I have to go through the whole process again. This happens several times a day.

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BUG: Crash on Export

- I believe I reported this for previous versions of the app as well, but Evernote crashes whenever I try to export a large number of notes. This time, it crashed after about 3,400 notes.

[EDIT:] - I got pretty far with the last export -- 8,660! But, now it is just stuck. I am not sure what to do, since it won't crash, and it won't go forward.

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I downloaded the update yesterday and I am NOT HAPPY with it. Somehow all URLs copied and pasted into Evernote will not auto-convert to a link and I have to highlight it, do a "cmd + K" on it to manually add the link. I've tripled checked and my preferences are not set to "paste as plain text".

I compile a whole bunch of links everyday and having to do a "cmd + K" on every single URL i want a hyperlink for is becoming a pain in the behind. Is there a way for URLs to automatically be hyperlinked again? Or do I have to downgrade back to the previous version for that to happen?

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I couldn't resist just one more teensy little dig here...

I'm sitting here happily using my version 3.3, and reading the bugs in v5, and wondering again - WHY?

It wasn't broken - and now it is, in so many ways....

I paste a URL and it stays as a URL link. Apparently not in the new version. Wow - how many more ways has it been broken, and WHY?

Still waiting for an answer on the "WHY" bit - doubt I'll ever get one though....

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Well, no one but the Evernote folks really know why they made the changes. In one of the "Meet the Designer" videos, they said they had to update it to support some of the major new features like Evernote Business and Sharing.

If that were the reason for EN making the UI more "playful" and removing "power" features, then shouldn't it affect all platforms equally, not only, or predominantly, Mac and iOS which were already less powerful (fewer sort options etc) than Windows and Android? Also, I would have thought that updating EN to support Business would mean making EN more business like, not less.

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He seems to "get" the problems that were so vocally complained about with Skitch, although somewhat reluctantly and a little dismissively, I thought.

Pity he doesn't admit that the same problems exist with the new versions of Evernote.

I guess we just need to keep being vocal. And wear Evernote socks...!

Who wouldn't want business socks! I like a company with a sense of humor.

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I think all 'premium' and 'business' users should get a free pair of socks and a free tee-shirt!!

Chris

I'm the sponsor of Premium group and I don't want anything for free. What I do want is some nice incremental improvements to v3.3 that have been tested and work reliably. Somebody at EN needs to understand that customers use EN for critical data and prefer to spend their time on their own projects, not being EN's free test team.

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I think all 'premium' and 'business' users should get a free pair of socks and a free tee-shirt!!

Chris

I'm the sponsor of Premium group and I don't want anything for free. What I do want is some nice incremental improvements to v3.3 that have been tested and work reliably. Somebody at EN needs to understand that customers use EN for critical data and prefer to spend their time on their own projects, not being EN's free test team.

Just having a laugh Boatguy, it is worth doing sometimes!!

Best regards

Chris

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I just realise I wrote this back in February when the first 3.0.7 beta came out and the camera- and audio notes icons were inexplicably removed. And I mad a fuzz about it:

I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available. But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will wind up in the opposite ditch than the Windows version and become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

Sorry to learn my worries were with good reason.

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HI all - great thread,

I must say i too have switched to PC after being Loyal Mac Devotee since original Macintosh was released. As cs6 and all 3d apps now look and behave the same on either OSX (with exception of Lion versions which suck) or Windows the switch was easy. Even Lynotype Font explorer works on Windows now.

And as for the Evernote. Please do not change anything before consulting your Paying members, before doing extensive consumer testing, before running beta and alpha testing on people that are interested in helping you succeed e.i. the crowd in this thread.

The 5.0 is way too much of a mistake to now try to fix it.

Go back to the drawing board.

Get some thinking caps on.

Fire your curent design team or get them into a good UI education programe

Get them to actually use the product in pararel on both old and new version to see and experience 1st hand why are we complaining so much.

Because if you are planing on doing same to the windows version - i'll be looking for an alternative.

You were the 1st on the market with fantastic product - i could see you have potential to get integrated with say new OS release

But make sure you don't get run over like dropbox will be soon by more superior feature rich Sugarsync.

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Today, I ran into a problem with v 5.0.4 that convinced me to roll back to v 5.0.2 -- that is, the Copy Note Link functionality is broken in 5.0.4 (Snow Leopard). When I copy the note link and then paste it in a note, I don't get a full link but rather only the title of the note whose Note Link I was trying to copy and paste.

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Hi Evernote team,

I feel that I must comment on the new interface on v5.x.x

I, for one, don't exactly mind the direction you're going in.

The tags screen is nice, the notebooks screen, the atlas. All fine and stylish.

And I personally love ShortCuts. I can't wait for them to get to the iPhone. It's a shame they weren't incorporated into the iOS v5 release!

But why have saved searches gotten the shaft?

They hide in the stupid search menu, and haven't even earned a scroll bar in your programmers minds!

Why can't I drag Saved Searches into the shortcuts list?

Why aren't Saved Searches a main button like Tags?

I live on Saved Searches and they feel like 2nd class citizens now.

Please, don't let them fall off your radar screen. They are important to me, and I'm sure many other users.

Continued loss of functionality and ease-of-use will cause us to look for other options.

I'm a huge Evernote fan, but less useful is less useful.

Please, listen to us.

Thanks,

David

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Jackolicious - a great way to "work on a way to help you with that" would give us back the way saved searches were in EN 3.3. That was perfect and logical: they were in the sidebar, along with notebooks and tags.

And there of course you could - shock horror - even re-name them and amend their search syntax!

That is TWO other saved search functions, not mentioned by davidscottsmith which have been taken-away from us.

I know you have to be politically-correct here and support your product and the decisions made around it. But I bet you are secretly going nuts and wondering how on earth EN 5 was released with so many bugs, missing functions and features, and such a degraded interface ;)

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And I personally love ShortCuts. I can't wait for them to get to the iPhone. It's a shame they weren't incorporated into the iOS v5 release!

David - download a great iPhone/iPad app called "Clever". This is an Evernote iOS clone written in Japan (in English) which is everything the EN iOS apps should be - and it has shortcuts!

Worth every penny.

Peter

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Jackolicious - a great way to "work on a way to help you with that" would give us back the way saved searches were in EN 3.3. That was perfect and logical: they were in the sidebar, along with notebooks and tags.

And there of course you could - shock horror - even re-name them and amend their search syntax!

That is TWO other saved search functions, not mentioned by davidscottsmith which have been taken-away from us.

I know you have to be politically-correct here and support your product and the decisions made around it. But I bet you are secretly going nuts and wondering how on earth EN 5 was released with so many bugs, missing functions and features, and such a degraded interface ;)

Thanks for that Peter, I was busy just trying to get at my old searches, hadn't even tried to modify them yet.

Who the hell approved this?

What software development leader would ok losing so many features? Pasted links becoming clickable? Saved Searches almost disappearing?

What is it they were so excited to release? Atlas? Shortcuts... Both good adds, but why approve losing the other features that used to work?

Pfftttt.

And I personally love ShortCuts. I can't wait for them to get to the iPhone. It's a shame they weren't incorporated into the iOS v5 release!

David - download a great iPhone/iPad app called "Clever". This is an Evernote iOS clone written in Japan (in English) which is everything the EN iOS apps should be - and it has shortcuts!

Worth every penny.

Peter

I'll check it out right now.

Thanks again,

David

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Today, I ran into a problem with v 5.0.4 that convinced me to roll back to v 5.0.2 -- that is, the Copy Note Link functionality is broken in 5.0.4 (Snow Leopard). When I copy the note link and then paste it in a note, I don't get a full link but rather only the title of the note whose Note Link I was trying to copy and paste.

I just reported this issue to Evernote support and was told that the devs know about this issue and are working on it.

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@Grumpy have you considered using Windows EN scripts to execute your searches rather than cut and paste.

You can even embed the desktop shortcuts into a note - "C:\Program Files\Evernote\Evernote\ENScript.exe" shownotes /q "notebook:Travel tag:Devon"

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  • Level 5*

Phil Libin in this February 2012 interview said the conversion rate from free to premium is about 4% to 5%. For comparison Skype's figure is around 7%. 25% would be amazing for any freemium company that has millions of users. Here's a link to the interview:

http://doeswhat.com/...libin-evernote/

However I swear I remember him saying it was 8% in a LeWeb video. As he said, it fluctuates. The 25% figure mentioned above is for people that have been with Evernote for 4 years or more:

"The overall percentage fluctuates quite a bit and isn’t particularly important because what happens is users convert as they use the service, the longer you’re using Evernote the more likely you are to convert. The conversion rates go up with the age of the user, so if you just want to take the overall conversion rate, you’re dividing the overall premium users by the total number of users, that’s primarily influenced by the ratio of new users to older users of the system. In a month when we grow really fast we get a whole bunch of new users, the overall conversion rate will be lower because more people haven’t been around for a few months, if we slow down growing then the overall conversion rate goes up because a larger percentage of users are older returning users.

The overall rate we frankly don’t pay attention to, but it’s probably somewhere around 4 or 5 percent range. What we pay a lot of attention to is what percentage convert in the first month, in the first year, in the first two years. Our oldest users, the ones who have been using Evernote for about 4 years, I think we first launched the service 4 years next month actually. Of the first few months worth of users, people who have been with us for about 4 years, around 25% of them are paying us right now, that ratio declines as you get new users." - Phil Libin

-- roschler

I do not remember hearing that myself. Phil has mentioned 8% before, but in a different context. The video below is from the Freemium Summit 2010. Phil Libin: Freemium for Consumer Internet. It is the third video of four, and it shows him talking about conversion rates.

From 2:49 in the video he says:

- .5% go premium first month, 1% after six months, 2% after a year, and 4% after sixteen months. After two years, about 8%.

- Oldest cohorts have premium rates of over 20%.

----------

By the way, at Le Web on June 20, 2012, in London, Phil said the conversion rate was 4%, and about 2 million paid users out of 34 million [i cannot seem to post both videos in a single post. It keeps erasing links. Go to my site if you want a link http://www.princeton...multimedia.html ]

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Two Bugs

  1. The shift+option+j key doesn't work most of the time to jump to tags. I have seen it work a few times but most of the time it doesn't and when it doesn't the option is greyed out in the view menu.
  2. If you hide the toolbar and do a global search it brings up the search entry but after you search you have to manually hide the toolbar again.

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Hi everyone,

Am I the only one having the following problem with 5.0.4 on Mac?

If i launch Evernote with 'Find in Evernote' menu, a notification windows appears with 'Sync Finished - 1 Note Uploaded'

I quit Evernote, launch Evernote with 'Find in Evernote' menu and this windows appears everytime.

Can someone make this test?

Thanks,

Thierry

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Sigh. Evernote is becoming less of a solution and more of a problem. Just updated and need to go back. So many problems. And such simple misses: how could you break http link handling??? Don't you really have a test for that??? This is getting old fast...

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  • Level 5*
I have almost entirely stopped using saved searches for various reasons, . . .

This is HUGE! With any database app ( and I've used many, designed a few), having Saved Searches (we used to call them Saved Queries) is one of the key features to making the DB really useful, and providing quick, reliable access to datasets (reports) that the user often needs to generate.

Sometimes the Search can be complex, so being able to reliably Save an Run the Search is very important.

It was huge for me! That's why I stumbled a bit at first.

If you look through the beta threads I think you'll find me asking about saved searches almost from the first post. Because we had no note numbers at the time, I couldn't figure out why everything was not working correctly, and once the numbers came back, I realized that it was all of my joined notebooks throwing things out of whack. I tried to edit the searches, found out that you can't, and also discovered around that time that the iOS won't let you modify saved searches (adding or subtracting query elements), so I decided the Saved Searches no longer fit my use case. Eventually, I decided to start collecting my saved searches into a single "saved search" note. This workaround has been very useful for me, as my queries tend to be quite long, and I think only 15 characters or so will fit into the tiny search field on the iPad. It's not ideal, but it works fine for me.

Change is always disruptive, and I expect I'll have to adjust my usage to any new UI. Still, I think it is worthwhile for us to voice our concerns, provide details about our use case, and explain how the UI is not serving our purposes. In the end, though, the developers make the decisions, and they have to weigh a bunch of factors. Now that we have gone a few months with the new UI, I figure it is better to use my time developing workarounds and getting on with my work, because I don't think I was able to make a convincing case for changing the UI.

Maybe someone else can! The developers are reading and listening, so if you haven't voiced your concerns, I encourage people to do so.

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Really, MY cut and paste never worked. I just went back to 3.0.6 in complete frustration. Please call me when everything works properly and spare me the confusing updates that remove a basic functionality like cut and paste. MOST of what I do is cut and paste from my other documents or web documents to my safekeeping memory places. Without it - useless.

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As someone who used to be a business consultant and currently run my own company I would certainly agree that 5% is quite a poor percentage and if I was running the company it would be a very important part of my investigations to find out why.

Best regards

Chris

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Often it takes 30 to 60 seconds to create a new note. The little wheel just spins, the File menu is highlighted, and nothing happens... and finally a new note is created.

Anyone else have this issue? I like the new UI generally.... the new search.... but the long wait just to create a new note is not acceptable.

Orson

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  • Level 5*

Often it takes 30 to 60 seconds to create a new note. The little wheel just spins, the File menu is highlighted, and nothing happens... and finally a new note is created.

Anyone else have this issue? I like the new UI generally.... the new search.... but the long wait just to create a new note is not acceptable.

Orson

It sometimes takes a second or two for a new note to appear for me as well, and on occasion, the new note disappears in the midst of editing. For some reason, the app seems to think it no longer fits the search filter criteria (I guess), so I have to clear the search and sort by date updated. In other words, creating a note can sometimes be a pain. Have you tried creating one in a new window (there is a shortcut key for that)? I wonder if that might speed things up for you.

[EDIT:] Using the shortcut key to create a new note (CTRL + CMD + N) seems to work a lot faster for me (it is immediate) and eliminates the problem of having the focus move away from the note in the middle of editing.

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I submitted a technical support request when I probably should have submitted it here. This being the case, I will copy it for the sake of posterity in the hopes that someone else may have a solution:

Evernote 5.04 on OS X Mountain Lion. 2.6Ghz, 8GB RAM.

Performance of Evernote 5 is exceptional in it's slowness.

Using the key command to create a new note, while Evernote is in the background, there is a 30 second delay as the beachball of death spins on the screen, and 10-15% of the time, Evernote will simply crash.

Available RAM does not alter this behavior in the slightest, as it also does this within minutes of a reboot.

Sometimes the beachball even happens even after I've typed part of the title.

I will start a new note, type a few words, then Evernote will beachball and either:

1) Return in 30 seconds or

2) Crash

It really slows down day-to-day workflow, and I've begun saving notes to BBedit or Sticky Notes and transferring them to Evernote later, although this is a rather sloppy solution. I generally add 20-100 notes/day, and I've actually hit situations where I've forgotten what I was going to add after the whole beachball/crash/re-launch cycle.

As it currently stands, when Evernote is in the background or minimized, and I hit the keys to type a new note ... it takes less time to launch a new instance of Safari than it does to create a new note in Evernote.

This has been the case since version 5 was released, but I assumed it was Version .00 blues.

It's now Version .04

Any ideas?

Thanks.

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I now have all of my main searches in one "saved search" note. I copy / paste from there.

So many apps are coming out that that have restful API's...as I read your comment, wouldn't it be a great feature to be able to create a link with search criteria? In other words, your saved search note would have URL's in them...something like: evernote://search/notebook:inbox&tag:lookhere&!tag:"don't look there"

Then we could edit all we want and save searches (and note links) wherever...

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@Tardis & Grumpy LOL

What hope is there of not losing features if we don't document they exist. You prompted me to search the detail of this and it appears it was at first a registry setting and is now accessible by use of CTRL-SHIFT-F5. I note however it appears to be secret and is not documented here link

Indeed. They have kept it secret for some reason, despite being (at least on the forums) universally popular and loved by the Windows users. It seems like such a waste to hide a great feature that the developers spent time creating. What is the point of hiding your work?

Oh well. We recognize your efforts Windows developers!

And, so Jack doesn't feel left out, we should also recognize his new, hidden Mac feature: navigation by hot keys. I haven't tried it yet myself, but it looks like users are liking it. Why is it hidden? Evernote developers are funny like that :)

So...what is the new hidden Mac feature? What are the secret navigation keys?

Evernote feels a bit clunky and inflexible, and everytime I realise that the winning argument for Evernote is not that it is the greatest note taking or "collecting-all-you-stuff-and-put-it-in-context"-app (because it is not. By far, it is not.) but that it syncs the ass out of every other app out there. Yes, occasionally sync problems, of course. But I can sync anything to almost any device. ...multiplatform syncing is essentially the feature that makes me stick around.

I find myself doing the same thing every 6 months or so...looking for alternatives. There is *just* enough (but barely) functionality to keep me using Evernote. At the same time, there is just enough frustration with this product to keep me searching for something better. It's going to be a nightmare when I switch away, but I feel that almost certainly I will at some point...only a matter of time.

Sigh. Evernote is becoming less of a solution and more of a problem. Just updated and need to go back. So many problems. And such simple misses: how could you break http link handling??? Don't you really have a test for that??? This is getting old fast...

I haven't been on the forum in quite a while, but the latest couple releases brought enough problems that I, like everyone else, am here looking for answers. But there aren't any. Ditto...

I sort of like the *look* of the new interface, but its like it was designed by an artist...not a UI expert or real designer... since much of the usability and efficiency is lost. Add my vote to the others AGAINST the loss of functionality, loss of efficiency, and new UI, and overall bugginess.

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Phil Libin in this February 2012 interview said the conversion rate from free to premium is about 4% to 5%. For comparison Skype's figure is around 7%. 25% would be amazing for any freemium company that has millions of users. Here's a link to the interview:

http://doeswhat.com/...libin-evernote/

However I swear I remember him saying it was 8% in a LeWeb video. As he said, it fluctuates. The 25% figure mentioned above is for people that have been with Evernote for 4 years or more:

"The overall percentage fluctuates quite a bit and isn’t particularly important because what happens is users convert as they use the service, the longer you’re using Evernote the more likely you are to convert. The conversion rates go up with the age of the user, so if you just want to take the overall conversion rate, you’re dividing the overall premium users by the total number of users, that’s primarily influenced by the ratio of new users to older users of the system. In a month when we grow really fast we get a whole bunch of new users, the overall conversion rate will be lower because more people haven’t been around for a few months, if we slow down growing then the overall conversion rate goes up because a larger percentage of users are older returning users.

The overall rate we frankly don’t pay attention to, but it’s probably somewhere around 4 or 5 percent range. What we pay a lot of attention to is what percentage convert in the first month, in the first year, in the first two years. Our oldest users, the ones who have been using Evernote for about 4 years, I think we first launched the service 4 years next month actually. Of the first few months worth of users, people who have been with us for about 4 years, around 25% of them are paying us right now, that ratio declines as you get new users." - Phil Libin

-- roschler

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Ideally, it would be the case, of course, that developers could do 100% of everything on their own. However, these crash logs can help developers out a lot. Developers of other products also code this kind of access into their apps and ask users to supply the information when they are unable to reproduce the issues on their end. I don't know if it is "standard" or if it "ought" to be done, but it happens.

When was the last time an ATM machine gave you the wrong amount of money? When was the last time commercial aircraft cockpit avionics crashed on final approach? When was the last time the microprocessor running your car's engine crashed and left you on the side of a road and the manufacturer asked you to send them the crash report?

The answer is never because these products are thoroughly tested before they are released for general usage. EN made two huge mistakes with v5 for the Mac: 1) decided that v5 should be the triumph of form over function, a pretty face was more important than intelligence and 2) they released the bad design without thorough testing. Even if it had been thoroughly tested, many posters are unhappy with the losses in functionality and would happily give up the new "pretty face" to get the old intelligence and functionality (including myself, still using v3.3).

"Ideally" EN would release a thoroughly tested product with enhanced functionality and improved graphics. That's what paying customers have a right to expect for their monthly fees.

EN has not released a new Mac version since Dec 12, so if you're an optimist, they've decided to test before they issue v5.5, and perhaps restore some functionality. If you're a pessimist, they just went on holiday vacation.

I'm an optimist and more than happy to wait another month to receive a reliable v5.5 which adds functionality to v3.3 in a prettier package.

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  • Level 5*

Ideally, it would be the case, of course, that developers could do 100% of everything on their own. However, these crash logs can help developers out a lot. Developers of other products also code this kind of access into their apps and ask users to supply the information when they are unable to reproduce the issues on their end. I don't know if it is "standard" or if it "ought" to be done, but it happens.

When was the last time an ATM machine gave you the wrong amount of money? When was the last time commercial aircraft cockpit avionics crashed on final approach? When was the last time the microprocessor running your car's engine crashed and left you on the side of a road and the manufacturer asked you to send them the crash report?

The answer is never because these products are thoroughly tested before they are released for general usage. EN made two huge mistakes with v5 for the Mac: 1) decided that v5 should be the triumph of form over function, a pretty face was more important than intelligence and 2) they released the bad design without thorough testing. Even if it had been thoroughly tested, many posters are unhappy with the losses in functionality and would happily give up the new "pretty face" to get the old intelligence and functionality (including myself, still using v3.3).

"Ideally" EN would release a thoroughly tested product with enhanced functionality and improved graphics. That's what paying customers have a right to expect for their monthly fees.

EN has not released a new Mac version since Dec 12, so if you're an optimist, they've decided to test before they issue v5.5, and perhaps restore some functionality. If you're a pessimist, they just went on holiday vacation.

I'm an optimist and more than happy to wait another month to receive a reliable v5.5 which adds functionality to v3.3 in a prettier package.

Sure, these are tested well, but my ATM routinely decides to no longer accept checks or dispense cash. You might well ask what the point of the ATM is, and I have wondered that myself. I wouldn't know if the avionics fail in the cockpit, but the video systems routinely do. In both cases, I am not the owner of the devices, so I'd hardly be expected to dig around inside of them to find crash reports. Car electronics fail all the time, and my model of car apparently bursts into flame on occasion, despite testing. I am not asked for crash logs, but I have been asked to pay over 100 dollars to turn off the check engine light, so I would be happy to submit logs or flip switches if they'd let me! Behind all of these three systems are endless reams of red tape and regulations, so are they really appropriate analogies?

If you compare Evernote with other software applications, then you'll find it is operating just like other companies do in the industry. My Windows and Apple devices want to send reports from apps on a daily basis. Don't you get those popups? Apparently, Apple wants us to help them fix their maps, though I wouldn't know where to start :) If you contact customer support or developers for a whole range of apps, you'll likely be asked for logs. I don't see why you think Evernote is so wrong to do this.

As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me. I have many strongly worded requests / demands / petitions for "improvements." However, ultimately it is up to the developers to make decisions about what is best for the app, and that is OK. I may not agree, but I don't agree with a lot of things, from political decisions to the lack of soy milk on the counter at my local coffee shops. Fortunately for us, Evernote has provided these forums for us to communicate with developers, and developers actually read and listen. That's more than I can say for some politicians!

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I have many strongly worded requests / demands / petitions for "improvements." However, ultimately it is up to the developers to make decisions about what is best for the app, and that is OK. I may not agree, but I don't agree with a lot of things, from political decisions to the lack of soy milk on the counter at my local coffee shops. Fortunately for us, Evernote has provided these forums for us to communicate with developers, and developers actually read and listen.

I still don't understand why EN continue to develop their Mac and iOS apps in a totally different direction to their Windows and Android apps, despite the barrage of criticism they received from users on these forums and all available evidence suggesting that Mac and iOS are becoming more relevant for business users, not less. I also don't understand how anyone, on any platform, could view the removal of features as "upgrade". I think EN only listen to what they want to hear, like the recent iOS update that addressed a few minor issues, but not the most hotly discussed one: restoring snippet view on iPad.

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  • Level 5*

As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me.

Really? I have gotten the impression that you're currently running Evernote for Windows in Parallels to get things done.

I was writing in response to the poster, who was saying the app's design had not been tested enough before release. I think the design targets some use cases, but not mine, so as you noted, I am primarily using Windows via Parallels. Lots of apps out there have thoroughly tested designs and run fine for me, but don't fit my use case. That doesn't make them "bad" or "untested." I think we have to be clear about our criticism. There is a world of difference between saying that something was poorly designed and saying that a design doesn't meet my needs.

That is the explanation for my post yesterday. However, snce then, I have also encountered the data loss bug reported in another thread, so it is no longer "running fine" for me. But, here I also disagree with the poster, because I am quite happy to send in my activity logs and report the bug, because I'd like to help the developers solve the problem. I don't know if this means insufficient testing of the app's performance (a somewhat different point than the poster's one about design). I have put in many hours testing the various betas before launch, and I have not encountered the problem until now.

I guess, from my perspective, bugs happen for every company (Xbox today, Snapchat yesterday), and there are plenty of design choices that are not universally popular (Metro), but we have a unique opportunity here to interract with developers to help fix any bugs and help influence design decisions for the better. We don't usually in the examples of the atm, plane, and car that the poster mentioned. Rather than attacking the developers as incompetent, and condemning the entire app as "bad" design, I prefer to recognize the aspects I consider to be well-designed, encourage them to keep those, and suggest specific ways to improve other aspects of the app or service that don't seem as well-designed.

I get what the poster is saying, and I am not saying they are wrong in their opinion. It is great that they are expressing it, no matter what it is, but I have a different perspective.

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Not sure if this is a bug but it's driving me nuts so I'll throw it out there: when I paste an image in the middle of a note from another note, the focus goes back up to the top of the note and I have to scroll to return to where I was. Shouldn't I be staying in the same spot? It seems more logical.

Also, can I request again the CMD+' shortcut in the multi-select screen for tagging notes please?

Oh, and hey, how about an option to ask me if I really want to quit when my sloppy, too-fast fingers accidentally hit CMD-Q instead of CMD-W? I'm sure both Evernote and my fingers are tired of the verbal abuse they receive every time I do this.

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Wow, this is a pretty active topic. Thanks for the replies to my post.

As far as the logs, I've sent them about 20 times in the past couple of weeks, possibly more.

I don't have a problem sending logs when the situation warrants it, but I'm getting a strong sense of diminishing returns lately. I'm having a reverse-Pavlovian response to doing so.

Case in point, early in 2012, I got a 10.1" Galaxy Tab on which EN could not record audio notes. Since I use EN to record riffs for songs, this was a bummer.

When I submitted support tickets, I was always asked for my logs, which I always dutifully sent.

After a month, they'd close the ticket and nothing would come of it. The next month, I would open another ticket, they would ask for the logs, I would send them, and after a month they'd close the ticket.

I sent my logs no less than 5 times, and nothing ever came of it. Being a developer myself, I even submitted information that would have pinpointed, and most likely provided an easy fix for the issue. Nothing ever came of it, and the fix was never implemented.

Every time I would make content with EN, it was always the same thing. "Send us your logs".

A month ago, I got a new tablet, and audio notes once again work. After 8 months, a dozen log submissions, and my own attempts to help fix the problem on my own time, audio notes never did work on the particular Tablet/OS combo that I had previously. If you wait long enough with Android issues, the issues eventually cease to exist. The upgrade cycle assures that. After logs, logs, and more logs, this was how my particular issue was "resolved".

Now, I'm not being hard on anyone. I get it. Like I said, I have to deal with these issues, and when 10,000 people are hitting you with bug reports, you have to pick and choose where you allocate resources. Some folks are going to win and some are going to lose. $5/month doesn't buy anyone much of my time, and If know-it-all users try to tell me how to fix my programs, I don't listen to them either.

Whenever I get frustrated with Evernote, I look at what I'm giving you, and when I realize that it's five stinking dollars per month, I feel ashamed of myself for even complaining. Hell, I spend twenty times that amount every month eating 3 day-old donuts on the Washington State Ferries every morning. If someone wrote to me demanding a bug fix because they gave me five freaking dollars, I'd tell them where to stick the five dollars, how far up there to stick it, and how many times to slap their ass and scream "Rex is my daddy!" while doing so.

Evernote doesn't work very well on the Mac right now, but if I have to be honest, it works well enough for five dollars. At least it doesn't give me food poisoning every week.

That being said, my log-submitting days are probably over. The chance of the issue being fixed on the basis of my logs is slim, and were my logs going to help, well … the 20 I've already sent will be sufficient.

I doubt they'll help, though.

My machine is a fairly dog-standard MacBook Pro. Macs are just not as variable as are PC's. In addition, all of my other programs work pretty normally as well, relatively speaking, of course. Nothing is stable anymore (I strongly believe that software stability has taken a nosedive in the past 3-5 years), but it's about status-quo.

Judging from the other responses to this thread, performance issues on the Mac seem to be normal right now, so I guess I'll just console myself with some Internet porn while waiting for the beachball of death to disappear, and hope for a future fix.

Thanks again.

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I'm sorry you've had such issues with our clients!

When you open a new ticket, the team has procedures they need to follow - and you can blame me for that. I drill this into the team pretty much every day, multiple times a day, that they will have to face my wrath if I don't get the logs we need. Now, if they're asking for logs needlessly, that's a problem.

Gathering logs is imperative, as they're the only way we can tell what's happening on someone's device. When we ask you do complete a step, like install a beta client, the log you sent us before is no longer relevant.

Now, in most cases, people are fixed before needing to gather even two logs. Sometimes, we don't even need any. For the people like yourself where we've apparently needed to get many, then they're invaluable for our engineering team to diagnose and correct these problems in future builds.

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As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me.

Really? I have gotten the impression that you're currently running Evernote for Windows in Parallels to get things done.

I was writing in response to the poster, who was saying the app's design had not been tested enough before release. I think the design targets some use cases, but not mine, so as you noted, I am primarily using Windows via Parallels. Lots of apps out there have thoroughly tested designs and run fine for me, but don't fit my use case. That doesn't make them "bad" or "untested." I think we have to be clear about our criticism. There is a world of difference between saying that something was poorly designed and saying that a design doesn't meet my needs.

That is the explanation for my post yesterday. However, snce then, I have also encountered the data loss bug reported in another thread, so it is no longer "running fine" for me. But, here I also disagree with the poster, because I am quite happy to send in my activity logs and report the bug, because I'd like to help the developers solve the problem. I don't know if this means insufficient testing of the app's performance (a somewhat different point than the poster's one about design). I have put in many hours testing the various betas before launch, and I have not encountered the problem until now.

I guess, from my perspective, bugs happen for every company (Xbox today, Snapchat yesterday), and there are plenty of design choices that are not universally popular (Metro), but we have a unique opportunity here to interract with developers to help fix any bugs and help influence design decisions for the better. We don't usually in the examples of the atm, plane, and car that the poster mentioned. Rather than attacking the developers as incompetent, and condemning the entire app as "bad" design, I prefer to recognize the aspects I consider to be well-designed, encourage them to keep those, and suggest specific ways to improve other aspects of the app or service that don't seem as well-designed.

I get what the poster is saying, and I am not saying they are wrong in their opinion. It is great that they are expressing it, no matter what it is, but I have a different perspective.

Let me, first off, be clear that we're on the same page regarding logs. I happily send activity logs on request and have done so before. As long as I am not being asked to analyse the logs and reach a diagnosis. It's like going to the doctor and tell him where it hurts and rely on him to figure out what's wrong.

My comment, however, was just because it sounded hollow that you defend the stability of a piece of software you've abandoned. I know that there's a difference between the technical aspects and the usability of an app. But still. Knowing you don't use it, it sounded incredibly odd that you still claimed "it runs fine." From a holistic point of view, it does not run fine if you can't use it. It running just as badly as if the design is flawless for you use case but you can't ever start the app.

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I find the new Evernote for Mac cumbersome and inefficient because 1) I can no longer see all my notebooks at a glance on the first screen. Even in Notebook view, many are cut off on my 11" Macbook Air. That means I always have to type something to access the notebook. 2) I can't double click to enlarge a note. I must use the pull down menu. On a MBAir I always need the larger format.

Those are my main gripes. I think the previous interface was much faster to use.

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My comment, however, was just because it sounded hollow that you defend the stability of a piece of software you've abandoned. I know that there's a difference between the technical aspects and the usability of an app. But still. Knowing you don't use it, it sounded incredibly odd that you still claimed "it runs fine." From a holistic point of view, it does not run fine if you can't use it. It running just as badly as if the design is flawless for you use case but you can't ever start the app.

Perhaps I misspoke somewhere, or gave the wrong impression, because I have not abandoned the app, I am still using it, and I find many aspects of it to be quite compelling: the Shortcuts, the Related Notes, the faster incremental searching, etc.

I primarily use the Windows app, though, because I find it better suited to my use case. Please bear in mind that I easily spend 12 hours a day or more in Evernote, so I suspect even the hour or two I spend with the Mac version is still more than most people who primarily use the Mac. In the context of this thread, I am writing against this perception that the app is a "disaster" or "unusable." It is neither. It could certainly be improved, in my opinion, and I have been vocal on the forums about specific suggestions I have. I think the developers have been focusing on a different use case than mine. I do hope they will address some of my concerns, even if they don't like my suggestions. Until then, I will probably continue to work more in Windows (via Parallels).

Perhaps it sounds hypocritical for me to both say positive things about the app, yet criticize it, and shift my work to another client. I prefer to say "it's complicated." My posts may sound hollow, but hopefully not dishonest. I think the best thing we can do for the app, the developers, and ourselves is to be honest about both the strengths and shortcomings. Also, the more details we can give about our use cases, and where the app is failing to meet our expectations, the more data they will have to work with when they try to improve it.

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I'm sorry you've had such issues with our clients!

When you open a new ticket, the team has procedures they need to follow - and you can blame me for that. I drill this into the team pretty much every day, multiple times a day, that they will have to face my wrath if I don't get the logs we need. Now, if they're asking for logs needlessly, that's a problem.

Gathering logs is imperative, as they're the only way we can tell what's happening on someone's device. When we ask you do complete a step, like install a beta client, the log you sent us before is no longer relevant.

Now, in most cases, people are fixed before needing to gather even two logs. Sometimes, we don't even need any. For the people like yourself where we've apparently needed to get many, then they're invaluable for our engineering team to diagnose and correct these problems in future builds.

Fair enough, and I certainly understand. Even though they've never helped me directly, I like to think that my log submissions have helped someone.

And again, I would like to make it clear that I'm trying to raise my issues without, at least officially, "complaining".

I know all too well that every customer thinks that his/her bug report is the most important, and when it's not fixed in 5 minutes, they go screaming and yelling about how nobody cares and yada yada yada

For Christ's sake, I've put FREE apps in the Android Market, and within days, I've had people demanding this fix or that feature ... along with a time frame of when they expected it to be done, or else they would UNINSTALL THE APP AND NEVER USE IT AGAIN!!!!

Yes, in that language, punctuation, and case.

The worst thing about being a developer is that most of the customers are self-important crybabies who think the world revolves around their ever issue and whim. The world is full of prolonged-adolescence special snowflakes who are convinced of their own personal relevance, and they all use computers. I know this, and I'm trying my best not to be one of them.

Therefore, allow me to summarize one last time before I graceful bow out and go back to the post-holiday grind.

Evernote works on the Mac for the most part, but it crashes randomly while using my custom "new note" key combination (option+command+enter), and nearly always waits 30 seconds or so before allowing me to type the note after hitting the key combination. I've tried other key combinations, and it's the same. Performance of 5.0x in general is about, I would estimate, 1/3rd the speed of the 4.0x branch. Search is also hit-and-miss, but fortunately, Spotlight often finds what EN search doesn't. It's an annoyance, but not the end of the world. I'm sure it will be fixed at some point, and I suppose I'll keep clicking the "send log to Evernote" dialog when it does dump on me.

That said, I rather like some of the new features, and I'm glad to see the developers are not only continuing to add features, but that some of them, like yourself, take the time to listen to us whine.

You're better people than I am, because there's no way in the world I could do it. If I had support forums, they would consist of a single closed thread entitled "What the F*%K Do You Expect for Five Bucks, @$$holes?"

The fact that you do anything more makes you alright in my book.

Now, please, go fix the damn program before I UNINSTALL THE APP AND NEVER USE IT AGAIN!!!!

I kid, I kid.

Merry Christmas and all that pagan stuff.

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