(Archived) Evernote 5.0.4 for Mac

[Jackolicious 808]

Hi everyone,

We are happy to announce that we just released Evernote for Mac 5.0.4 via direct download from our website: http://evernote.com/...ile=EvernoteMac

It addresses a lot of speed/stability concerns as well as AppleScript bugs and CJK search highlighting issues. Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement. For this release, stability was of the utmost importance and hopefully, this release reinforces that commitment to our most important stakeholders: you.

Thanks for all your feedback and enjoy!

Jack

[mrgoerend 89]

You guys fixed copy-pasting. I know it was fixed just for me, so thank you.

[Jackolicious 808]

mrg, how'd you know?

[dodowolf 8]

The Typeface choice still doesn't work as intended. It's working fine in the 3.3 of Evernote

[PeterLondon 34]

Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement.

"It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words."

Syme. From the novel 1984 by George Orwell 1903 -1950.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Hi everyone,

We are happy to announce that we just released Evernote for Mac 5.0.4 via direct download from our website: http://evernote.com/...ile=EvernoteMac

It addresses a lot of speed/stability concerns as well as AppleScript bugs and CJK search highlighting issues. Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement. For this release, stability was of the utmost importance and hopefully, this release reinforces that commitment to our most important stakeholders: you.

Thanks for all your feedback and enjoy!

Jack

Good job Jack. Thanks for working quickly to remedy the problems. Extensive use of the app since the overhaul has not changed my dissatisfaction with some of the design decisions (I expressed these earlier), but I won't recite the litany again here, unless you would like to read through the list again!

BUG: New note focus

- If I make a new note, sometimes the new note disappears before I can even type the title, and I have to go hunting for it.

[JMichaelTX 4,118]

Hi everyone,

We are happy to announce that we just released Evernote for Mac 5.0.4 via direct download from our website: http://evernote.com/...ile=EvernoteMac

It addresses a lot of speed/stability concerns as well as AppleScript bugs and CJK search highlighting issues. Please understand that the past month's rapid releases do not represent us being flippant about releasing buggy software. Rather, they demonstrate our commitment to rapid, iterative improvement. For this release, stability was of the utmost importance and hopefully, this release reinforces that commitment to our most important stakeholders: you.

Thanks for all your feedback and enjoy!

Jack

Jack, if it turns out to be a true stability fix, and doesn't introduce more bugs than it fixes, then I will be more than happy to applaud your speedy recovery.

I'm still running EN Mac v3 on my primary Mac. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and if after a few days it looks like there are no new major issues withVer 5.0.4, then I'll update my test Mac for further evaluation.

[Mike Wood 139]

Jack, if it turns out to be a true stability fix, and doesn't introduce more bugs than it fixes, then I will be more than happy to applaud your speedy recovery.

I'm still running EN Mac v3 on my primary Mac. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and if after a few days it looks like there are no new major issues withVer 5.0.4, then I'll update my test Mac for further evaluation.

In the good old days it was only the iOS client you took a risk updating day one of release. Then Mac joined the party and some of us sat smugly using Windows without issues. Even Grumpy sort refuge in Windows, but we too cannot upgrade now without bugs and missing features.... I find myself evaluating versions on test machines and squirrelling away versions, that work, in case I need them later?!#

[Mike Wood 139]

This feels more and more like the community pulling together after a natural disaster!

[yikeouch 23]

Back/forward is back on individual note windows ( with hot keys ), thanks.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Jack, if it turns out to be a true stability fix, and doesn't introduce more bugs than it fixes, then I will be more than happy to applaud your speedy recovery.

I'm still running EN Mac v3 on my primary Mac. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and if after a few days it looks like there are no new major issues withVer 5.0.4, then I'll update my test Mac for further evaluation.

In the good old days it was only the iOS client you took a risk updating day one of release. Then Mac joined the party and some of us sat smugly using Windows without issues. Even Grumpy sort refuge in Windows, but we too cannot upgrade now without bugs and missing features....

Now, now. I am not using Windows because of any stability issues. To be sure, I have had a fair number of bugs, but nothing especially bad. The issue for me has been more a lack of features that will help me get stuff done. I have a pretty strong opinion about certain things in the app (I've already gone into the details over the last year or so in excruciating detail, so I think Jack knows what I am talking about), and the Windows version fits my use case better right now than the Mac version.

I will say that I remain very concerned about a bug that doesn't get mentioned too much in these beta threads. The unreliability of searches (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/32709-search-problems-japanese-in-quotation-marks/#entry177496) right now is causing me no end of headaches, but I think all of the clients are implicated in this problem -- some definitely have much more trouble than others, but it is not clear to me which one (if any) is returning the "correct" search results. As I've been reporting search problems for a very long time now, and the developers have long been working on them, I suspect the problems are either insurmountable, or the error is in the user, who doesn't know how to properly search.

[Martin Packer 162]

The trouble with rapid turn around is the "consumability" of it: Don't pity me but it's a pain on slow "broad"band to update. And then there's the risk introduced through software change.

Not that I'm complaining: I'm pleased you're rapidly fixing the issues others have uncovered. If you can make the updates incremental that'll help. But won't mitigate the churn risk.

[Mike Wood 139]

Now, now. I am not using Windows because of any stability issues. To be sure, I have had a fair number of bugs, but nothing especially bad. The issue for me has been more a lack of features that will help me get stuff done. I have a pretty strong opinion about certain things in the app (I've already gone into the details over the last year or so in excruciating detail, so I think Jack knows what I am talking about), and the Windows version fits my use case better right now than the Mac version.

I will say that I remain very concerned about a bug that doesn't get mentioned too much in these beta threads. The unreliability of searches (http://discussion.ev...ks/#entry177496) right now is causing me no end of headaches, but I think all of the clients are implicated in this problem -- some definitely have much more trouble than others, but it is not clear to me which one (if any) is returning the "correct" search results. As I've been reporting search problems for a very long time now, and the developers have long been working on them, I suspect the problems are either insurmountable, or the error is in the user, who doesn't know how to properly search.

@Grumpy I fully understand your use of Windows EN is related to lack of features! (not bugs). I don't think I said otherwise, although it could have been construed.

BUT I think you are being rather too kind saying 'lack of features' when in reality it was the REMOVAL OF FEATURES that determined your solace in Windows.

[tardis 87]

@Grumpy I fully understand your use of Windows EN is related to lack of features! (not bugs). I don't think I said otherwise, although it could have been construed.

BUT I think you are being rather too kind saying 'lack of features' when in reality it was the REMOVAL OF FEATURES that determined your solace in Windows.

Japanese search issues aside, the sort features and vertical list view that GM prefers in the Windows client were never in the Mac client. You can argue client parity if you want but it's not a feature removal issue.

ETA: Not that I want to speak for GM. Just my observations from watching you guys hammer away at him.

[Mike Wood 139]

@Tardis I hope Grumpy doesn't feel we are hammering away at him... its just a bit of fun? its just his reality is a bit rose tinted. GM if I'm out of line just let me know.

I and I'm sure many others appreciate GM's contributions. He is consistent, informed, polite and welcoming.

[Jackolicious 808]

Back/forward is back on individual note windows ( with hot keys ), thanks.

Glad you found it. I was about to post about it.

[mrgoerend 89]

Back/forward is back on individual note windows ( with hot keys ), thanks.

Glad you found it. I was about to post about it.

Is this only with hotkeys? I wouldn't mind having the icons, too.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Hi! Hammer away

I've had to make several adjustments due to feature removals and design changes, and I would have preferred not to make them, but it's OK.

For example, we can no longer edit saved searches on OSX, and we can't modify them on iOS (adding additional terms in the search field), so they are a lot less functional for me. I now have all of my main searches in one "saved search" note. I copy / paste from there.

The search automatically includes joined notebooks in OSX now, and you can only remove them in sorts. It turns out to be quite inconvenient, so I just removed all of my joined notebooks. There are viable workarounds for everything, and I may just be an edge case, so I'm not going to push my stuff onto the developers.

In part it is about design choices, in part it is about feature parity, but it isn't about the app being "bad." It does what it does, but what it does fits less an less with what I want it to do

I figure that Windows pretty much has everything i need, so at this point it is just easier for me to use it via parallels.

[Mike Wood 139]

....the sort features and vertical list view that GM prefers in the Windows client were never in the Mac client. You can argue client parity if you want but it's not a feature removal issue.

Sorry Tardis... I have checked my wife's Macbook and can confirm Mac version 3.3 had List, Snippet and Card view. As far as sorting is concerned by any column (in ascending or descending).

[tardis 87]

Sorry Tardis... I have checked my wife's Macbook and can confirm Mac version 3.3 had List, Snippet and Card view. As far as sorting is concerned by any column (in ascending or descending).

Right. But not the vertical list view. Nor has the Mac client ever had the same number of sorting options that Windows has.

I've been using the Mac client since the day it was released. I have a pretty good idea which version has had what.

[Mike Wood 139]

@Tardis OK I'm using the Windows client mainly and I'm about to make a fool of myself but WTF are you talking about? (can't see much difference between 3.3 Mac and 4.5 Windows)

Have you got a screenshot?

[tardis 87]

GM has a post that nicely sums up the differences. With screenshots.

There are some pretty big differences between the Windows and Mac clients in terms of displayed information and sort options.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

@Tardis OK I'm using the Windows client mainly and I'm about to make a fool of myself but WTF are you talking about? (can't see much difference between 3.3 Mac and 4.5 Windows)

Have you got a screenshot?

I don't want to speak for Tardis, because my memory of using Evernote on the Mac is not terribly good before Snow Leopard, but basically, what I want to see is a Vertical List View and a full range of sorts on the Mac, and I believe that he is correct in saying they have never been in the Mac version. There are many more things, but these are the basic ones that (to me) seem the most obvious targets of any attempt to have parity among the Evernote clients. After that, we could go with information density, contrast (less gray on gray), etc.

Here is a screenshot of two recent versions of the app, which you probably have access to, but you may not be familiar with the "secret", oral transmission of the Vertical List View in Windows.

http://www.evernote....95698bf3329fdbd

[EDIT:] Tardis beat me to it

[tardis 87]

I don't want to speak for Tardis, because my memory of using Evernote on the Mac is not terribly good before Snow Leopard, but basically, what I want to see is a Vertical List View and a full range of sorts on the Mac, and I believe that he is correct in saying they have never been in the Mac version. There are many more things, but these are the basic ones that (to me) seem the most obvious targets of any attempt to have parity among the Evernote clients. After that, we could go with information density, contrast (less gray on gray), etc.

Here is a screenshot of two recent versions of the app, which you probably have access to, but you may not be familiar with the "secret", oral transmission of the Vertical List View in Windows.

http://www.evernote....95698bf3329fdbd

[EDIT:] Tardis beat me to it

I agree completely. At least where your ideas for improving the Mac client are concerned. (Not so much where you refer to me as "he." )

Thanks for adding those two extra screenshots. I have them saved but had lost the URL. Those screenshots give the clearest picture of the differences between the client views.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

I don't want to speak for Tardis, because my memory of using Evernote on the Mac is not terribly good before Snow Leopard, but basically, what I want to see is a Vertical List View and a full range of sorts on the Mac, and I believe that he is correct in saying they have never been in the Mac version. There are many more things, but these are the basic ones that (to me) seem the most obvious targets of any attempt to have parity among the Evernote clients. After that, we could go with information density, contrast (less gray on gray), etc.

Here is a screenshot of two recent versions of the app, which you probably have access to, but you may not be familiar with the "secret", oral transmission of the Vertical List View in Windows.

http://www.evernote....95698bf3329fdbd

[EDIT:] Tardis beat me to it

I agree completely. At least where your ideas for improving the Mac client are concerned. (Not so much where you refer to me as "he." )

Thanks for adding those two extra screenshots. I have them saved but had lost the URL. Those screenshots give the clearest picture of the differences between the client views.

I stand corrected. I should not blithely throw around the gendered pronoun like that. The Tardis, after all, only held a woman! The doctor was a time lord, of course, and not really human

Anyhow, I think the Vertical ist View and minimalistic interface showing at a glance all of the available data for your notes in an extremely customizable interface (there must be at least twenty different things you can toggle off / on in the Windows client) is obviously superior to the Mac one, which has just a handful of notes in gray, on a gray background, with only a fraction of the sorts available.

However, I also used to think movies about vampires and werewolves were "obviously" doomed to failure. I guess we all have different priorities in what we want the app to look like. I can confirm from real-life experience in the wild that there are people in the world who favor the Mac interface over the Windows one! Another "obvious" answer to this dilemma is to just give us customizability

[Mike Wood 139]

@Tardis & Grumpy LOL

What hope is there of not losing features if we don't document they exist. You prompted me to search the detail of this and it appears it was at first a registry setting and is now accessible by use of CTRL-SHIFT-F5. I note however it appears to be secret and is not documented here link

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

@Tardis & Grumpy LOL

What hope is there of not losing features if we don't document they exist. You prompted me to search the detail of this and it appears it was at first a registry setting and is now accessible by use of CTRL-SHIFT-F5. I note however it appears to be secret and is not documented here link

Indeed. They have kept it secret for some reason, despite being (at least on the forums) universally popular and loved by the Windows users. It seems like such a waste to hide a great feature that the developers spent time creating. What is the point of hiding your work?

Oh well. We recognize your efforts Windows developers!

And, so Jack doesn't feel left out, we should also recognize his new, hidden Mac feature: navigation by hot keys. I haven't tried it yet myself, but it looks like users are liking it. Why is it hidden? Evernote developers are funny like that

[Mike Wood 139]

I better go away and read the last 2 years of forum posts to discover any other gems I may have missed!

Also Grumpy I assume your sort description was based on EN5? As in 3.3 you have 9 sort options including TAGs (from the list view).

Anyway ... back to my point GM moved to parallels/Windows in part due to feature removal when EN5 was released.

[Metrodon 2,188]

Just noticed that the Trash shows up in the sidebar if you display notebooks and can be added to Shortcuts. Nice.

[pgdahl 133]

Back/forward is back on individual note windows ( with hot keys ), thanks.

Glad you found it. I was about to post about it.

This boggles my mind. And frustrates me, because it seems to be symptomatic for EN 5.

You, that is Evernote, remove the feature entirely. Place it back, with graphical icons, where it has limited use (impossible not to discover, but stuck there, forever and always whether you use it or not). Then, with good reason, you add it back where it is mission critical for many use cases - but make it so obscure you have to stumble on this feature.

If it's important enough to alert people to in the main window, why not put it in the individual note window too? And why not, now we're at it, stick with the previous icons that just about any other productivity related Mac app uses.

Oh, and just so you know: hard bracket makes for very awkward hotkeys for non-English keyboards. And where's the keyboard short cuts for changing views, making new audio and video camera notes? I do not comprehend.

Edit: Clarification.

Also, I really do not understand what you're trying to do. It seems like you're heading for the most counter-intuitive user interface you can think up. But why would you do that?

[NightStalker 407]

@Pgdahl: your question says it all, really. Yes I know that there are a few of us who are being very voluble here on the forums, and thus our comments may seem like the rantings of a few.

But the question remains - and so far has NOT been answered - WHY?

Given that it was the previous UI and feature set that made Evernote the success it is today, WHY would you change it?

Why remove features that worked (eg configurable toolbar, list view, sort options, etc etc)?

Why change the UI from intuitive to non-intuitive?

Why push on with trying to make the new version like the previous one, when it is so far behind the previous one to start with?

Why not just go back to the previous version, and then move forward again from there - but by ADDING features (eg vertical list view on the Mac) and NOT removing features?

And given that the previous UI worked perfectly well, and didn't need a workover, why change it at all? (apart from adding vertical list view on the Mac, and a List view on the iPad)

Why IS there no vertical list view on the Mac, and in a 3-column format, given that monitor screens are wide, not tall?

Why is there a list view on the iPhone - but not on the iPad which has a bigger screen? That makes no sense whatever - but then neither do any of the other design decisions in v5!

So the bottom line is - WHY? Just "WHY"???

Sticking with v3.3 here, and v4 on the iDevices. They are working well, I'm happy again, haven't lost any more notes, search works most of the time, and I'm looking forward to when the list views are fixed or added, on the Mac and the iPad respectively....

I assume I'll be waiting for a long time!

[rdhyee 14]

I'm really happy that v 5.0.4 seems to have fixed the synchronization issues that made v 5.0.3 unusable on Snow Leopard. Thanks, Jack and the rest of the Evernote Mac OS X team, for your hard work.

From my perspective, the breakage I experienced was the first major one for me since i started using Evernote a while ago. Hence, it feels like something really went awry at Evernote this time. I'd appreciate hearing some type of post-mortem analysis on how v 5.0.3 turned out to be some uncharacteristically faulty. Before v 5.0.3, I didn't think twice about updating to latest version, but now I think I should wait to see whether I see a lot of bug reports in the forum.

[pgdahl 133]

@Pgdahl: your question says it all, really. Yes I know that there are a few of us who are being very voluble here on the forums, and thus our comments may seem like the rantings of a few.

Alas, yes. I almost deleted my own post again, because ... there are so many things I love about Evernote. I spent my night looking at other notes apps, which I've done before because sometimes Evernote feels a bit clunky and inflexible, and everytime I realise that the winning argument for Evernote is not that it is the greatest note taking or "collecting-all-you-stuff-and-put-it-in-context"-app (because it is not. By far, it is not.) but that it syncs the ass out of every other app out there. Yes, occasionally sync problems, of course. But I can sync anything to almost any device. I do not have to be on my home wifi to sync. I do not have to limit myself to any particular flavor of hardware and or software. The only thing I need is a browser, really. Reliable OTA multiplatform syncing is essentially the feature that makes me stick around.

But yes. It frustrates me that Evernote seems to treat Mac users as airheads who care more about how things look than how they work. It seems like a guardianship strategy to reel in new users with a lean interface that doesn't do very much (and thus saves countless hours for the support team, I suppose) meanwhile wheedling "Business"-users with a business program that doesn't make much sense at all and gimmicks like related notes and activity stream.

[audiofreak 2]

Ok...I came here to ask a question about 5.0.4, but hope I'm not interrupting anything, lol.

Has anyone found the new version to run slow? I am on a Mac, running Mountain Lion, and upgraded from 5.0.3 to 5.0.4. Now, when using the search box to look for something in EN, it sometimes lags, and I can watch it type many seconds afterwards. Wondering if it's EN, or my Mac, or both. Have you had any issues with 5.0.4 like this?

Thanks so much!

[PeterLondon 34]

So the bottom line is - WHY? Just "WHY"???

I have to agree NightStalker. It's a total mystery. I think perhaps that bosses of companies go to too many developer conferences etc., and read too much on the net from the "experts". These people are always trying to push the latest buzz-words and telling everyone they have to be at the cutting edge, and if they don't "move" in the water like sharks they will be dead.

So they feel they must be "doing" something the whole time.

I'm a reasonably intelligent sort of guy, and fairly well read etc. I studied Computing & Electronics at University. But I read pieces on the web which are incomprehensible gobbledy-*****. I often just don't know what these folks are talking about.

Now for developers, they want to be seen to be following or creating the latest fashions; and/or having done something new and "fresh". They often care about that far more than whether the app actually works well or not. It's what their peers think that counts. And maybe they'll only be with EN for a couple of years and then they'll move-on; so they want to make their "mark". Or in this case, a little pile of smelly dog-*****.

I work in the office building sector, and I often have to get office space fitted-out. You have to be very, very careful with the interior designers, as they will easily get totally carried away, and design something that may win awards and get in the design mags; but will be totally, totally impracticable for a work-space.

The amazing thing is, that this EN 5.0 debacle seems just like the Skitch 2.0 mess: the same terrible mess-up of functions and design. So perhaps there is some hope they will back-track.

[NightStalker 407]

OK - I think in deference to Jack, we should stop complaining about the new versions more generally on this thread - it's a thread for v5.0.4 on the Mac.

I think he's got the point. Whether or not anything gets done about the point is another matter, but at Jack's suggestion, maybe we should have a thread where we can discuss the more general complaints (and praise where it's due) with him.

Sorry Jack - looks like we "Hi Jack" 'd the thread (arrgghh - sorry, couldn't resist )

[E-NoteForum 107]

Not sure if this is new to 5.0.4, but I just noticed it for the first time: if you paste a note link into a bullet list, it just pastes the name of the note, not the link.

If you paste a note link into normal, non-bulleted text it works correctly.

I'll also throw together a quick ticket. This is on 5.0.4 Mac.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Ok...I came here to ask a question about 5.0.4, but hope I'm not interrupting anything, lol.

Has anyone found the new version to run slow? I am on a Mac, running Mountain Lion, and upgraded from 5.0.3 to 5.0.4. Now, when using the search box to look for something in EN, it sometimes lags, and I can watch it type many seconds afterwards. Wondering if it's EN, or my Mac, or both. Have you had any issues with 5.0.4 like this?

Thanks so much!

Yes. However, Windows is much, much slower. It lags a terrible amount, and I haven't had a chance yet to mess around with the registry.

[inkazar 5]

Does this release fix the Snow Leopard problems? (tagging, assigning notebooks and syncing were not working). I'm stuck on 5.1 which is a bad place to be stuck, until the SL problems are fixed.

[inkazar 5]

To answer my own question, the problem with Snow Leopard (local database in 5.0.3 was "locked" against tagging and against filing into notebooks, and sync was not working) is FIXED. However, even if you downgraded to 5.0.1 to get around this problem, simply updating to 5.0.4 will result in a locked up local db. What you need to do is trash your ~/Library/Application Support/Evernote folder and download your database fresh from Evernote.

I only updated a few minutes ago, but so far I haven't seen a problem with tagging, filing, or syncing.

THANKS for the incredibly rapid fix for Snow Leopard users.

[Boatguy 49]

Is the configurable tool bar gone forever?

Is 5.xx intended to be just a "pretty face" and the feature deletions are a permanent design decision?

First rule of design and medicine: "If it's not broken, don't fix it" aka "first, do no harm".

I've got to agree with many other posters - WHY?

I'm staying with 3.3 until someone at EN gets a good night sleep, steps back from the edge and either realizes they've broken something that worked, or makes a much more compelling case for v5 than has been made thus far.

Jack: Stick to customer support because the spin you tried to put on this mess at the top of this thread further eroded EN's credibility. Someone else got to the Orwell quote before me, but it is spot on.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

BUG: 0 Notes

Is anyone else finding themselves chucked out of a note in the middle of editing and thrown into a screen that says "0 Notes"? I reported this a few times already (I think), but what happens is that I will search for something like intitle:journal, I will locate the note I want to edit, and I will be editing it, but then suddenly it disappears and I have nothing in the right pane, and the center pane says "0 Notes," so I have to go through the whole process again. This happens several times a day.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

BUG: Crash on Export

- I believe I reported this for previous versions of the app as well, but Evernote crashes whenever I try to export a large number of notes. This time, it crashed after about 3,400 notes.

[EDIT:] - I got pretty far with the last export -- 8,660! But, now it is just stuck. I am not sure what to do, since it won't crash, and it won't go forward.

[rbianchi 66]

BUG?

The shortcut 'jump to label' (shift-cmd-J) only show a few labels (about 5), not all the labels.

Is this a bug?

On the other hand, still lacking a scrollbar in the saved searches menú.

[shelled 0]

I downloaded the update yesterday and I am NOT HAPPY with it. Somehow all URLs copied and pasted into Evernote will not auto-convert to a link and I have to highlight it, do a "cmd + K" on it to manually add the link. I've tripled checked and my preferences are not set to "paste as plain text".

I compile a whole bunch of links everyday and having to do a "cmd + K" on every single URL i want a hyperlink for is becoming a pain in the behind. Is there a way for URLs to automatically be hyperlinked again? Or do I have to downgrade back to the previous version for that to happen?

[cornetg 62]

Somehow all URLs copied and pasted into Evernote will not auto-convert to a link and I have to highlight it, do a "cmd + K" on it to manually add the link.

Confirmed. A pasted URL no longer works as a link.

[NightStalker 407]

I couldn't resist just one more teensy little dig here...

I'm sitting here happily using my version 3.3, and reading the bugs in v5, and wondering again - WHY?

It wasn't broken - and now it is, in so many ways....

I paste a URL and it stays as a URL link. Apparently not in the new version. Wow - how many more ways has it been broken, and WHY?

Still waiting for an answer on the "WHY" bit - doubt I'll ever get one though....

[Mike Wood 139]

@NightStalker the designer videos shed quite a lot of light on Why. But this recent Libin interview is more interesting http://elephantchannel.net/2012/12/tec-034-phil-libin-interview-at-leweb-2012/

Note the smart socks and the words 'pause' and 'too disruptive'. (17 minutes in)

[Martin Packer 162]

Yes, I wasn't overly happy with that interview. Wasn't seeking an apology but a better perspective on how it played out would've been appropriate. And what firms me up in that view is that a pattern is emerging of new introductions. Fortunately for me none of this has directly affected me.

[NightStalker 407]

He seems to "get" the problems that were so vocally complained about with Skitch, although somewhat reluctantly and a little dismissively, I thought.

Pity he doesn't admit that the same problems exist with the new versions of Evernote.

I guess we just need to keep being vocal. And wear Evernote socks...!

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

He seems to "get" the problems that were so vocally complained about with Skitch, although somewhat reluctantly and a little dismissively, I thought.

Pity he doesn't admit that the same problems exist with the new versions of Evernote.

I guess we just need to keep being vocal. And wear Evernote socks...!

Who wouldn't want business socks! I like a company with a sense of humor.

[C6REW 416]

I think all 'premium' and 'business' users should get a free pair of socks and a free tee-shirt!!

Chris

[Martin Packer 162]

The socks don't match the T-shirt. :-)

[C6REW 416]

That's the best part Martin!!

Chris

[Boatguy 49]

I think all 'premium' and 'business' users should get a free pair of socks and a free tee-shirt!!

Chris

I'm the sponsor of Premium group and I don't want anything for free. What I do want is some nice incremental improvements to v3.3 that have been tested and work reliably. Somebody at EN needs to understand that customers use EN for critical data and prefer to spend their time on their own projects, not being EN's free test team.

[C6REW 416]

I think all 'premium' and 'business' users should get a free pair of socks and a free tee-shirt!!

Chris

I'm the sponsor of Premium group and I don't want anything for free. What I do want is some nice incremental improvements to v3.3 that have been tested and work reliably. Somebody at EN needs to understand that customers use EN for critical data and prefer to spend their time on their own projects, not being EN's free test team.

Just having a laugh Boatguy, it is worth doing sometimes!!

Best regards

Chris

[Mike Wood 139]

@C6REW You do know Libin promised free socks back in August? http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/24/evernote-business-launches-ceo-says-it-will-be-a-cognitive-tool-to-help-you-think/

[pgdahl 133]

I just realise I wrote this back in February when the first 3.0.7 beta came out and the camera- and audio notes icons were inexplicably removed. And I mad a fuzz about it:

I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available. But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will wind up in the opposite ditch than the Windows version and become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

Sorry to learn my worries were with good reason.

[davortesting 0]

HI all - great thread,

I must say i too have switched to PC after being Loyal Mac Devotee since original Macintosh was released. As cs6 and all 3d apps now look and behave the same on either OSX (with exception of Lion versions which suck) or Windows the switch was easy. Even Lynotype Font explorer works on Windows now.

And as for the Evernote. Please do not change anything before consulting your Paying members, before doing extensive consumer testing, before running beta and alpha testing on people that are interested in helping you succeed e.i. the crowd in this thread.

The 5.0 is way too much of a mistake to now try to fix it.

Go back to the drawing board.

Get some thinking caps on.

Fire your curent design team or get them into a good UI education programe

Get them to actually use the product in pararel on both old and new version to see and experience 1st hand why are we complaining so much.

Because if you are planing on doing same to the windows version - i'll be looking for an alternative.

You were the 1st on the market with fantastic product - i could see you have potential to get integrated with say new OS release

But make sure you don't get run over like dropbox will be soon by more superior feature rich Sugarsync.

[rdhyee 14]

Today, I ran into a problem with v 5.0.4 that convinced me to roll back to v 5.0.2 -- that is, the Copy Note Link functionality is broken in 5.0.4 (Snow Leopard). When I copy the note link and then paste it in a note, I don't get a full link but rather only the title of the note whose Note Link I was trying to copy and paste.

[davidscottsmith 4]

Hi Evernote team,

I feel that I must comment on the new interface on v5.x.x

I, for one, don't exactly mind the direction you're going in.

The tags screen is nice, the notebooks screen, the atlas. All fine and stylish.

And I personally love ShortCuts. I can't wait for them to get to the iPhone. It's a shame they weren't incorporated into the iOS v5 release!

But why have saved searches gotten the shaft?

They hide in the stupid search menu, and haven't even earned a scroll bar in your programmers minds!

Why can't I drag Saved Searches into the shortcuts list?

Why aren't Saved Searches a main button like Tags?

I live on Saved Searches and they feel like 2nd class citizens now.

Please, don't let them fall off your radar screen. They are important to me, and I'm sure many other users.

Continued loss of functionality and ease-of-use will cause us to look for other options.

I'm a huge Evernote fan, but less useful is less useful.

Please, listen to us.

Thanks,

David

[Jackolicious 808]

Saved searches can be dragged to shortcuts.

[davidscottsmith 4]

Well, I stand corrected.

Thank you Jackolicios.

I still wish I could see my saved searches somewhere besides that query menu, particularly since it doesn't scroll to show me all my saved searches.

I'm right on that, aren't I? Or is there another place to see them?

Thanks again,

David

[Jackolicious 808]

There isn't currently a way to see more than a page-height's worth of Saved Searches although we're working on a way to help you with that.

[davidscottsmith 4]

Thanks, I look forward to the fix.

David

[PeterLondon 34]

Jackolicious - a great way to "work on a way to help you with that" would give us back the way saved searches were in EN 3.3. That was perfect and logical: they were in the sidebar, along with notebooks and tags.

And there of course you could - shock horror - even re-name them and amend their search syntax!

That is TWO other saved search functions, not mentioned by davidscottsmith which have been taken-away from us.

I know you have to be politically-correct here and support your product and the decisions made around it. But I bet you are secretly going nuts and wondering how on earth EN 5 was released with so many bugs, missing functions and features, and such a degraded interface

[PeterLondon 34]

And I personally love ShortCuts. I can't wait for them to get to the iPhone. It's a shame they weren't incorporated into the iOS v5 release!

David - download a great iPhone/iPad app called "Clever". This is an Evernote iOS clone written in Japan (in English) which is everything the EN iOS apps should be - and it has shortcuts!

Worth every penny.

Peter

[davidscottsmith 4]

Jackolicious - a great way to "work on a way to help you with that" would give us back the way saved searches were in EN 3.3. That was perfect and logical: they were in the sidebar, along with notebooks and tags.

And there of course you could - shock horror - even re-name them and amend their search syntax!

That is TWO other saved search functions, not mentioned by davidscottsmith which have been taken-away from us.

I know you have to be politically-correct here and support your product and the decisions made around it. But I bet you are secretly going nuts and wondering how on earth EN 5 was released with so many bugs, missing functions and features, and such a degraded interface

Thanks for that Peter, I was busy just trying to get at my old searches, hadn't even tried to modify them yet.

Who the hell approved this?

What software development leader would ok losing so many features? Pasted links becoming clickable? Saved Searches almost disappearing?

What is it they were so excited to release? Atlas? Shortcuts... Both good adds, but why approve losing the other features that used to work?

Pfftttt.

And I personally love ShortCuts. I can't wait for them to get to the iPhone. It's a shame they weren't incorporated into the iOS v5 release!

David - download a great iPhone/iPad app called "Clever". This is an Evernote iOS clone written in Japan (in English) which is everything the EN iOS apps should be - and it has shortcuts!

Worth every penny.

Peter

I'll check it out right now.

Thanks again,

David

[rdhyee 14]

Today, I ran into a problem with v 5.0.4 that convinced me to roll back to v 5.0.2 -- that is, the Copy Note Link functionality is broken in 5.0.4 (Snow Leopard). When I copy the note link and then paste it in a note, I don't get a full link but rather only the title of the note whose Note Link I was trying to copy and paste.

I just reported this issue to Evernote support and was told that the devs know about this issue and are working on it.

[Uwe Moeschel 19]

Bug Report

1.) When I have a notebook with 0 notes and I drag and drop a document from my local folder structure EN would not create a new note, whereas if the Notebook in Evernote has one or more notes - drag and drop from the local folder structure will work

2.) If I empty my Trash and have the view "All Notebooks" The trash bin and the count of notes would not show zero

[Uwe Moeschel 19]

Bug Report

3.) It seems while creating a note, not always a thumbnail image is created (if required), but should.

[sjd 0]

Two Bugs

1. The shift+option+j key doesn't work most of the time to jump to tags. I have seen it work a few times but most of the time it doesn't and when it doesn't the option is greyed out in the view menu.
   
2. If you hide the toolbar and do a global search it brings up the search entry but after you search you have to manually hide the toolbar again.
   

[surfmarko 0]

I do not like the new evernote. It used to be so easy to view all my notes visually now it is a huge pain! I used EN over MAC, IOS, and Windows platforms and I just loaded 5.0.4 and it is HORRIBLE. Couldn't guys have left a classic view? I mean what features did we gain from this?? I could already search notes just fine! I could already share my notebooks. I want to visually view all my notes. Sometimes I don't know what I am looking for so I just want to scroll through. It seems when companies do this and change too much too rapidly they start to lose ppl. Good Luck but I can't recommend your product anymore.

[thb911 0]

Hi everyone,

Am I the only one having the following problem with 5.0.4 on Mac?

If i launch Evernote with 'Find in Evernote' menu, a notification windows appears with 'Sync Finished - 1 Note Uploaded'

I quit Evernote, launch Evernote with 'Find in Evernote' menu and this windows appears everytime.

Can someone make this test?

Thanks,

Thierry

[mogf01 12]

Sigh. Evernote is becoming less of a solution and more of a problem. Just updated and need to go back. So many problems. And such simple misses: how could you break http link handling??? Don't you really have a test for that??? This is getting old fast...

[luckman212 165]

I just got a new late-2012 Mac Mini and naturally one of the first things I did was install Evernote. Coming from the PC/Win side of things I always thought the Windows version was the "second-class citizen" -- with new features and generally more development effort devoted to the Mac version. Well, my opinion has changed dramatically after (trying) to use EN 5.0.4 for the last few hours. I was sadly disappointed by the look & feel as well as usability of the new 5.x Mac version compared to the current PC version.

First of all let's talk about speed: the Mac version seems to slog through my ~3200 note database. It takes 4-5 seconds for the UI to appear after clicking EN from the Dock. Navigating around the interface is very odd, I find the mix of interface styles and elements to be quite jarring. It looks like the sidebar, toolbar, note editor, and note list areas were all designed by totally different teams -- like pieces of a jigsaw that don't quite fit together. I had used previous Mac versions before so I know they were never quite the same as the PC counterparts but this is a drastic (and without clear benefits to the user) UI change. As others have pointed out, there are some things that are difficult or just plain impossible. E.g., you cannot edit saved searches -- what?!? The toolbar is huge and such a waste of space -- cannot be customized, and if hidden you lose access to the SEARCH bar, which is unacceptable. On the PC version, when entering URLs (http links, email addresses, or even links to local files -- file:/// ) the editor would auto-generate hyperlinks. Now on the Mac side it's an extra step (well TWO steps really, since highlighting a link and hitting CMD+K merely brings up a blank "enter link" dialog -- come on, at *least* pre-fill the entry box with the selected link!)

This is a total failure in my opinion. It reminds me of the whole EN3.5 / WPF / .NET for Windows fiasco a couple of years ago - some old timers here will remember that and know what I am talking about (slow, crashes, blurry fonts). In the end EN3.5 was scrapped and replaced with a new, lean & mean native C++ app that remains a fantastic piece of kit today. I hope they go back to the drawing board in a similar fashion on the current Mac release, otherwise I won't be doing much work with EN on this Mac

[mogf01 12]

So many people have posted about problems with missing features and a ruined UI. Doesn't Evernote people even try to listen? Like @luckman212 (and many others here) say: Evernote: please please please just throw away version 5 and go back to the product that had the features we like and the clear and useful UI. It is not a bad sign to have to go back -- on the contrary it would show that you really cared about your users.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

I have found it easier with saved searches to create just one that leads directly to a "home page" for my personal wiki (created with note links). The navigation from there is quite fast (no lag from having to wait for the incremental search if you have a large account). On the iPad you can neither edit saved searches nor modify a saved search (add on search terms) after it is entered into the search field, so if you use both OSX and iOS you might find it easier to have one more saved search that leads to a note full of frequently used search strings you can copy/paste.

Ideally, I'd like to see the return of saved search functionality, and perhaps even more robust features associated with it, but until then, I think this workaround is pretty nice and safe from most any modifications to the UI in future releases.

[orsonk 2]

Often it takes 30 to 60 seconds to create a new note. The little wheel just spins, the File menu is highlighted, and nothing happens... and finally a new note is created.

Anyone else have this issue? I like the new UI generally.... the new search.... but the long wait just to create a new note is not acceptable.

Orson

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Often it takes 30 to 60 seconds to create a new note. The little wheel just spins, the File menu is highlighted, and nothing happens... and finally a new note is created.

Anyone else have this issue? I like the new UI generally.... the new search.... but the long wait just to create a new note is not acceptable.

Orson

It sometimes takes a second or two for a new note to appear for me as well, and on occasion, the new note disappears in the midst of editing. For some reason, the app seems to think it no longer fits the search filter criteria (I guess), so I have to clear the search and sort by date updated. In other words, creating a note can sometimes be a pain. Have you tried creating one in a new window (there is a shortcut key for that)? I wonder if that might speed things up for you.

[EDIT:] Using the shortcut key to create a new note (CTRL + CMD + N) seems to work a lot faster for me (it is immediate) and eliminates the problem of having the focus move away from the note in the middle of editing.

[davidscottsmith 4]

I just noticed that the little green dates in card view stay on the "modified date" even when I switch the view to sort by created date.

Would be nice if the list dates shows the created date when I make that change.

David

[Rex 13]

I submitted a technical support request when I probably should have submitted it here. This being the case, I will copy it for the sake of posterity in the hopes that someone else may have a solution:

Evernote 5.04 on OS X Mountain Lion. 2.6Ghz, 8GB RAM.

Performance of Evernote 5 is exceptional in it's slowness.

Using the key command to create a new note, while Evernote is in the background, there is a 30 second delay as the beachball of death spins on the screen, and 10-15% of the time, Evernote will simply crash.

Available RAM does not alter this behavior in the slightest, as it also does this within minutes of a reboot.

Sometimes the beachball even happens even after I've typed part of the title.

I will start a new note, type a few words, then Evernote will beachball and either:

1) Return in 30 seconds or

2) Crash

It really slows down day-to-day workflow, and I've begun saving notes to BBedit or Sticky Notes and transferring them to Evernote later, although this is a rather sloppy solution. I generally add 20-100 notes/day, and I've actually hit situations where I've forgotten what I was going to add after the whole beachball/crash/re-launch cycle.

As it currently stands, when Evernote is in the background or minimized, and I hit the keys to type a new note ... it takes less time to launch a new instance of Safari than it does to create a new note in Evernote.

This has been the case since version 5 was released, but I assumed it was Version .00 blues.

It's now Version .04

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[Jackolicious 808]

Rex, feel free to send me your crash logs if creating a new note is causing a crash. Support should also get your logs.

[floid 8]

I now have all of my main searches in one "saved search" note. I copy / paste from there.

So many apps are coming out that that have restful API's...as I read your comment, wouldn't it be a great feature to be able to create a link with search criteria? In other words, your saved search note would have URL's in them...something like: evernote://search/notebook:inbox&tag:lookhere&!tag:"don't look there"

Then we could edit all we want and save searches (and note links) wherever...

[Tim Bates 4]

Shift tab should take the user up to the title of the note (just as tab takes them down to the body)

[floid 8]

@Tardis & Grumpy LOL

What hope is there of not losing features if we don't document they exist. You prompted me to search the detail of this and it appears it was at first a registry setting and is now accessible by use of CTRL-SHIFT-F5. I note however it appears to be secret and is not documented here link

Indeed. They have kept it secret for some reason, despite being (at least on the forums) universally popular and loved by the Windows users. It seems like such a waste to hide a great feature that the developers spent time creating. What is the point of hiding your work?

Oh well. We recognize your efforts Windows developers!

And, so Jack doesn't feel left out, we should also recognize his new, hidden Mac feature: navigation by hot keys. I haven't tried it yet myself, but it looks like users are liking it. Why is it hidden? Evernote developers are funny like that

So...what is the new hidden Mac feature? What are the secret navigation keys?

Evernote feels a bit clunky and inflexible, and everytime I realise that the winning argument for Evernote is not that it is the greatest note taking or "collecting-all-you-stuff-and-put-it-in-context"-app (because it is not. By far, it is not.) but that it syncs the ass out of every other app out there. Yes, occasionally sync problems, of course. But I can sync anything to almost any device. ...multiplatform syncing is essentially the feature that makes me stick around.

I find myself doing the same thing every 6 months or so...looking for alternatives. There is *just* enough (but barely) functionality to keep me using Evernote. At the same time, there is just enough frustration with this product to keep me searching for something better. It's going to be a nightmare when I switch away, but I feel that almost certainly I will at some point...only a matter of time.

Sigh. Evernote is becoming less of a solution and more of a problem. Just updated and need to go back. So many problems. And such simple misses: how could you break http link handling??? Don't you really have a test for that??? This is getting old fast...

I haven't been on the forum in quite a while, but the latest couple releases brought enough problems that I, like everyone else, am here looking for answers. But there aren't any. Ditto...

I sort of like the *look* of the new interface, but its like it was designed by an artist...not a UI expert or real designer... since much of the usability and efficiency is lost. Add my vote to the others AGAINST the loss of functionality, loss of efficiency, and new UI, and overall bugginess.

[Metrodon 2,188]

OK, so what features are you missing Floid?

[Boatguy 49]

Rex, feel free to send me your crash logs if creating a new note is causing a crash. Support should also get your logs.

Customers shouldn't even know what a "crash log" is, let alone be burdened with making sure that they get to the right person. Crash logs are for testers and developers, not customers.

Customers should only have to be concerned with feature requests and UI tweaks. How did customers get dragged this far back up the food chain into the development process?

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Rex, feel free to send me your crash logs if creating a new note is causing a crash. Support should also get your logs.

Customers shouldn't even know what a "crash log" is, let alone be burdened with making sure that they get to the right person. Crash logs are for testers and developers, not customers.

Customers should only have to be concerned with feature requests and UI tweaks. How did customers get dragged this far back up the food chain into the development process?

Ideally, it would be the case, of course, that developers could do 100% of everything on their own. However, these crash logs can help developers out a lot. Developers of other products also code this kind of access into their apps and ask users to supply the information when they are unable to reproduce the issues on their end. I don't know if it is "standard" or if it "ought" to be done, but it happens.

[Boatguy 49]

Ideally, it would be the case, of course, that developers could do 100% of everything on their own. However, these crash logs can help developers out a lot. Developers of other products also code this kind of access into their apps and ask users to supply the information when they are unable to reproduce the issues on their end. I don't know if it is "standard" or if it "ought" to be done, but it happens.

When was the last time an ATM machine gave you the wrong amount of money? When was the last time commercial aircraft cockpit avionics crashed on final approach? When was the last time the microprocessor running your car's engine crashed and left you on the side of a road and the manufacturer asked you to send them the crash report?

The answer is never because these products are thoroughly tested before they are released for general usage. EN made two huge mistakes with v5 for the Mac: 1) decided that v5 should be the triumph of form over function, a pretty face was more important than intelligence and 2) they released the bad design without thorough testing. Even if it had been thoroughly tested, many posters are unhappy with the losses in functionality and would happily give up the new "pretty face" to get the old intelligence and functionality (including myself, still using v3.3).

"Ideally" EN would release a thoroughly tested product with enhanced functionality and improved graphics. That's what paying customers have a right to expect for their monthly fees.

EN has not released a new Mac version since Dec 12, so if you're an optimist, they've decided to test before they issue v5.5, and perhaps restore some functionality. If you're a pessimist, they just went on holiday vacation.

I'm an optimist and more than happy to wait another month to receive a reliable v5.5 which adds functionality to v3.3 in a prettier package.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

Ideally, it would be the case, of course, that developers could do 100% of everything on their own. However, these crash logs can help developers out a lot. Developers of other products also code this kind of access into their apps and ask users to supply the information when they are unable to reproduce the issues on their end. I don't know if it is "standard" or if it "ought" to be done, but it happens.

When was the last time an ATM machine gave you the wrong amount of money? When was the last time commercial aircraft cockpit avionics crashed on final approach? When was the last time the microprocessor running your car's engine crashed and left you on the side of a road and the manufacturer asked you to send them the crash report?

The answer is never because these products are thoroughly tested before they are released for general usage. EN made two huge mistakes with v5 for the Mac: 1) decided that v5 should be the triumph of form over function, a pretty face was more important than intelligence and 2) they released the bad design without thorough testing. Even if it had been thoroughly tested, many posters are unhappy with the losses in functionality and would happily give up the new "pretty face" to get the old intelligence and functionality (including myself, still using v3.3).

"Ideally" EN would release a thoroughly tested product with enhanced functionality and improved graphics. That's what paying customers have a right to expect for their monthly fees.

EN has not released a new Mac version since Dec 12, so if you're an optimist, they've decided to test before they issue v5.5, and perhaps restore some functionality. If you're a pessimist, they just went on holiday vacation.

I'm an optimist and more than happy to wait another month to receive a reliable v5.5 which adds functionality to v3.3 in a prettier package.

Sure, these are tested well, but my ATM routinely decides to no longer accept checks or dispense cash. You might well ask what the point of the ATM is, and I have wondered that myself. I wouldn't know if the avionics fail in the cockpit, but the video systems routinely do. In both cases, I am not the owner of the devices, so I'd hardly be expected to dig around inside of them to find crash reports. Car electronics fail all the time, and my model of car apparently bursts into flame on occasion, despite testing. I am not asked for crash logs, but I have been asked to pay over 100 dollars to turn off the check engine light, so I would be happy to submit logs or flip switches if they'd let me! Behind all of these three systems are endless reams of red tape and regulations, so are they really appropriate analogies?

If you compare Evernote with other software applications, then you'll find it is operating just like other companies do in the industry. My Windows and Apple devices want to send reports from apps on a daily basis. Don't you get those popups? Apparently, Apple wants us to help them fix their maps, though I wouldn't know where to start If you contact customer support or developers for a whole range of apps, you'll likely be asked for logs. I don't see why you think Evernote is so wrong to do this.

As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me. I have many strongly worded requests / demands / petitions for "improvements." However, ultimately it is up to the developers to make decisions about what is best for the app, and that is OK. I may not agree, but I don't agree with a lot of things, from political decisions to the lack of soy milk on the counter at my local coffee shops. Fortunately for us, Evernote has provided these forums for us to communicate with developers, and developers actually read and listen. That's more than I can say for some politicians!

[Ninotschka 5]

I have many strongly worded requests / demands / petitions for "improvements." However, ultimately it is up to the developers to make decisions about what is best for the app, and that is OK. I may not agree, but I don't agree with a lot of things, from political decisions to the lack of soy milk on the counter at my local coffee shops. Fortunately for us, Evernote has provided these forums for us to communicate with developers, and developers actually read and listen.

I still don't understand why EN continue to develop their Mac and iOS apps in a totally different direction to their Windows and Android apps, despite the barrage of criticism they received from users on these forums and all available evidence suggesting that Mac and iOS are becoming more relevant for business users, not less. I also don't understand how anyone, on any platform, could view the removal of features as "upgrade". I think EN only listen to what they want to hear, like the recent iOS update that addressed a few minor issues, but not the most hotly discussed one: restoring snippet view on iPad.

[pgdahl 133]

As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me.

Really? I have gotten the impression that you're currently running Evernote for Windows in Parallels to get things done.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me.

Really? I have gotten the impression that you're currently running Evernote for Windows in Parallels to get things done.

I was writing in response to the poster, who was saying the app's design had not been tested enough before release. I think the design targets some use cases, but not mine, so as you noted, I am primarily using Windows via Parallels. Lots of apps out there have thoroughly tested designs and run fine for me, but don't fit my use case. That doesn't make them "bad" or "untested." I think we have to be clear about our criticism. There is a world of difference between saying that something was poorly designed and saying that a design doesn't meet my needs.

That is the explanation for my post yesterday. However, snce then, I have also encountered the data loss bug reported in another thread, so it is no longer "running fine" for me. But, here I also disagree with the poster, because I am quite happy to send in my activity logs and report the bug, because I'd like to help the developers solve the problem. I don't know if this means insufficient testing of the app's performance (a somewhat different point than the poster's one about design). I have put in many hours testing the various betas before launch, and I have not encountered the problem until now.

I guess, from my perspective, bugs happen for every company (Xbox today, Snapchat yesterday), and there are plenty of design choices that are not universally popular (Metro), but we have a unique opportunity here to interract with developers to help fix any bugs and help influence design decisions for the better. We don't usually in the examples of the atm, plane, and car that the poster mentioned. Rather than attacking the developers as incompetent, and condemning the entire app as "bad" design, I prefer to recognize the aspects I consider to be well-designed, encourage them to keep those, and suggest specific ways to improve other aspects of the app or service that don't seem as well-designed.

I get what the poster is saying, and I am not saying they are wrong in their opinion. It is great that they are expressing it, no matter what it is, but I have a different perspective.

[tardis 87]

Not sure if this is a bug but it's driving me nuts so I'll throw it out there: when I paste an image in the middle of a note from another note, the focus goes back up to the top of the note and I have to scroll to return to where I was. Shouldn't I be staying in the same spot? It seems more logical.

Also, can I request again the CMD+' shortcut in the multi-select screen for tagging notes please?

Oh, and hey, how about an option to ask me if I really want to quit when my sloppy, too-fast fingers accidentally hit CMD-Q instead of CMD-W? I'm sure both Evernote and my fingers are tired of the verbal abuse they receive every time I do this.

[Rex 13]

Wow, this is a pretty active topic. Thanks for the replies to my post.

As far as the logs, I've sent them about 20 times in the past couple of weeks, possibly more.

I don't have a problem sending logs when the situation warrants it, but I'm getting a strong sense of diminishing returns lately. I'm having a reverse-Pavlovian response to doing so.

Case in point, early in 2012, I got a 10.1" Galaxy Tab on which EN could not record audio notes. Since I use EN to record riffs for songs, this was a bummer.

When I submitted support tickets, I was always asked for my logs, which I always dutifully sent.

After a month, they'd close the ticket and nothing would come of it. The next month, I would open another ticket, they would ask for the logs, I would send them, and after a month they'd close the ticket.

I sent my logs no less than 5 times, and nothing ever came of it. Being a developer myself, I even submitted information that would have pinpointed, and most likely provided an easy fix for the issue. Nothing ever came of it, and the fix was never implemented.

Every time I would make content with EN, it was always the same thing. "Send us your logs".

A month ago, I got a new tablet, and audio notes once again work. After 8 months, a dozen log submissions, and my own attempts to help fix the problem on my own time, audio notes never did work on the particular Tablet/OS combo that I had previously. If you wait long enough with Android issues, the issues eventually cease to exist. The upgrade cycle assures that. After logs, logs, and more logs, this was how my particular issue was "resolved".

Now, I'm not being hard on anyone. I get it. Like I said, I have to deal with these issues, and when 10,000 people are hitting you with bug reports, you have to pick and choose where you allocate resources. Some folks are going to win and some are going to lose. $5/month doesn't buy anyone much of my time, and If know-it-all users try to tell me how to fix my programs, I don't listen to them either.

Whenever I get frustrated with Evernote, I look at what I'm giving you, and when I realize that it's five stinking dollars per month, I feel ashamed of myself for even complaining. Hell, I spend twenty times that amount every month eating 3 day-old donuts on the Washington State Ferries every morning. If someone wrote to me demanding a bug fix because they gave me five freaking dollars, I'd tell them where to stick the five dollars, how far up there to stick it, and how many times to slap their ass and scream "Rex is my daddy!" while doing so.

Evernote doesn't work very well on the Mac right now, but if I have to be honest, it works well enough for five dollars. At least it doesn't give me food poisoning every week.

That being said, my log-submitting days are probably over. The chance of the issue being fixed on the basis of my logs is slim, and were my logs going to help, well … the 20 I've already sent will be sufficient.

I doubt they'll help, though.

My machine is a fairly dog-standard MacBook Pro. Macs are just not as variable as are PC's. In addition, all of my other programs work pretty normally as well, relatively speaking, of course. Nothing is stable anymore (I strongly believe that software stability has taken a nosedive in the past 3-5 years), but it's about status-quo.

Judging from the other responses to this thread, performance issues on the Mac seem to be normal right now, so I guess I'll just console myself with some Internet porn while waiting for the beachball of death to disappear, and hope for a future fix.

Thanks again.

[heather 604]

I'm sorry you've had such issues with our clients!

When you open a new ticket, the team has procedures they need to follow - and you can blame me for that. I drill this into the team pretty much every day, multiple times a day, that they will have to face my wrath if I don't get the logs we need. Now, if they're asking for logs needlessly, that's a problem.

Gathering logs is imperative, as they're the only way we can tell what's happening on someone's device. When we ask you do complete a step, like install a beta client, the log you sent us before is no longer relevant.

Now, in most cases, people are fixed before needing to gather even two logs. Sometimes, we don't even need any. For the people like yourself where we've apparently needed to get many, then they're invaluable for our engineering team to diagnose and correct these problems in future builds.

[pgdahl 133]

As for Evernote on OSX, it is running fine for me.

Really? I have gotten the impression that you're currently running Evernote for Windows in Parallels to get things done.

I was writing in response to the poster, who was saying the app's design had not been tested enough before release. I think the design targets some use cases, but not mine, so as you noted, I am primarily using Windows via Parallels. Lots of apps out there have thoroughly tested designs and run fine for me, but don't fit my use case. That doesn't make them "bad" or "untested." I think we have to be clear about our criticism. There is a world of difference between saying that something was poorly designed and saying that a design doesn't meet my needs.

That is the explanation for my post yesterday. However, snce then, I have also encountered the data loss bug reported in another thread, so it is no longer "running fine" for me. But, here I also disagree with the poster, because I am quite happy to send in my activity logs and report the bug, because I'd like to help the developers solve the problem. I don't know if this means insufficient testing of the app's performance (a somewhat different point than the poster's one about design). I have put in many hours testing the various betas before launch, and I have not encountered the problem until now.

I guess, from my perspective, bugs happen for every company (Xbox today, Snapchat yesterday), and there are plenty of design choices that are not universally popular (Metro), but we have a unique opportunity here to interract with developers to help fix any bugs and help influence design decisions for the better. We don't usually in the examples of the atm, plane, and car that the poster mentioned. Rather than attacking the developers as incompetent, and condemning the entire app as "bad" design, I prefer to recognize the aspects I consider to be well-designed, encourage them to keep those, and suggest specific ways to improve other aspects of the app or service that don't seem as well-designed.

I get what the poster is saying, and I am not saying they are wrong in their opinion. It is great that they are expressing it, no matter what it is, but I have a different perspective.

Let me, first off, be clear that we're on the same page regarding logs. I happily send activity logs on request and have done so before. As long as I am not being asked to analyse the logs and reach a diagnosis. It's like going to the doctor and tell him where it hurts and rely on him to figure out what's wrong.

My comment, however, was just because it sounded hollow that you defend the stability of a piece of software you've abandoned. I know that there's a difference between the technical aspects and the usability of an app. But still. Knowing you don't use it, it sounded incredibly odd that you still claimed "it runs fine." From a holistic point of view, it does not run fine if you can't use it. It running just as badly as if the design is flawless for you use case but you can't ever start the app.

[Julia2 0]

I find the new Evernote for Mac cumbersome and inefficient because 1) I can no longer see all my notebooks at a glance on the first screen. Even in Notebook view, many are cut off on my 11" Macbook Air. That means I always have to type something to access the notebook. 2) I can't double click to enlarge a note. I must use the pull down menu. On a MBAir I always need the larger format.

Those are my main gripes. I think the previous interface was much faster to use.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,320]

My comment, however, was just because it sounded hollow that you defend the stability of a piece of software you've abandoned. I know that there's a difference between the technical aspects and the usability of an app. But still. Knowing you don't use it, it sounded incredibly odd that you still claimed "it runs fine." From a holistic point of view, it does not run fine if you can't use it. It running just as badly as if the design is flawless for you use case but you can't ever start the app.

Perhaps I misspoke somewhere, or gave the wrong impression, because I have not abandoned the app, I am still using it, and I find many aspects of it to be quite compelling: the Shortcuts, the Related Notes, the faster incremental searching, etc.

I primarily use the Windows app, though, because I find it better suited to my use case. Please bear in mind that I easily spend 12 hours a day or more in Evernote, so I suspect even the hour or two I spend with the Mac version is still more than most people who primarily use the Mac. In the context of this thread, I am writing against this perception that the app is a "disaster" or "unusable." It is neither. It could certainly be improved, in my opinion, and I have been vocal on the forums about specific suggestions I have. I think the developers have been focusing on a different use case than mine. I do hope they will address some of my concerns, even if they don't like my suggestions. Until then, I will probably continue to work more in Windows (via Parallels).

Perhaps it sounds hypocritical for me to both say positive things about the app, yet criticize it, and shift my work to another client. I prefer to say "it's complicated." My posts may sound hollow, but hopefully not dishonest. I think the best thing we can do for the app, the developers, and ourselves is to be honest about both the strengths and shortcomings. Also, the more details we can give about our use cases, and where the app is failing to meet our expectations, the more data they will have to work with when they try to improve it.

[Rex 13]

I'm sorry you've had such issues with our clients!

When you open a new ticket, the team has procedures they need to follow - and you can blame me for that. I drill this into the team pretty much every day, multiple times a day, that they will have to face my wrath if I don't get the logs we need. Now, if they're asking for logs needlessly, that's a problem.

Gathering logs is imperative, as they're the only way we can tell what's happening on someone's device. When we ask you do complete a step, like install a beta client, the log you sent us before is no longer relevant.

Now, in most cases, people are fixed before needing to gather even two logs. Sometimes, we don't even need any. For the people like yourself where we've apparently needed to get many, then they're invaluable for our engineering team to diagnose and correct these problems in future builds.

Fair enough, and I certainly understand. Even though they've never helped me directly, I like to think that my log submissions have helped someone.

And again, I would like to make it clear that I'm trying to raise my issues without, at least officially, "complaining".

I know all too well that every customer thinks that his/her bug report is the most important, and when it's not fixed in 5 minutes, they go screaming and yelling about how nobody cares and yada yada yada

For Christ's sake, I've put FREE apps in the Android Market, and within days, I've had people demanding this fix or that feature ... along with a time frame of when they expected it to be done, or else they would UNINSTALL THE APP AND NEVER USE IT AGAIN!!!!

Yes, in that language, punctuation, and case.

The worst thing about being a developer is that most of the customers are self-important crybabies who think the world revolves around their ever issue and whim. The world is full of prolonged-adolescence special snowflakes who are convinced of their own personal relevance, and they all use computers. I know this, and I'm trying my best not to be one of them.

Therefore, allow me to summarize one last time before I graceful bow out and go back to the post-holiday grind.

Evernote works on the Mac for the most part, but it crashes randomly while using my custom "new note" key combination (option+command+enter), and nearly always waits 30 seconds or so before allowing me to type the note after hitting the key combination. I've tried other key combinations, and it's the same. Performance of 5.0x in general is about, I would estimate, 1/3rd the speed of the 4.0x branch. Search is also hit-and-miss, but fortunately, Spotlight often finds what EN search doesn't. It's an annoyance, but not the end of the world. I'm sure it will be fixed at some point, and I suppose I'll keep clicking the "send log to Evernote" dialog when it does dump on me.

That said, I rather like some of the new features, and I'm glad to see the developers are not only continuing to add features, but that some of them, like yourself, take the time to listen to us whine.

You're better people than I am, because there's no way in the world I could do it. If I had support forums, they would consist of a single closed thread entitled "What the F*%K Do You Expect for Five Bucks, @$$holes?"

The fact that you do anything more makes you alright in my book.

Now, please, go fix the damn program before I UNINSTALL THE APP AND NEVER USE IT AGAIN!!!!

I kid, I kid.

Merry Christmas and all that pagan stuff.