mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 ...I wonder if this means they are listening to feedback and taking development a bit more slowly to improve quality over quantity. Thoughts? Link to comment
Level 5* s2sailor 2,417 Posted May 30 Level 5* Share Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: Thoughts? Wait and see. 1 Link to comment
Evernote Expert agsteele 3,059 Posted May 30 Evernote Expert Share Posted May 30 I think it more likely means that there has been a lot of holiday on the team. 2 Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 1 hour ago, mackid1993 said: ...I wonder if this means they are listening to feedback and taking development a bit more slowly to improve quality over quantity. Thoughts? Don't really know what to think. Occasionally still hoping and waiting for Bending Spoons to finally get things under control. But i don't really believe this will be happening in the foreseeable future. 🫤 I'm out as soon as i find a proper replacement for Evernote. (But until that happens, i expect bugs to get fixed and Everote to provide the services i'm paying for!) Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 5 minutes ago, janndk said: Don't really know what to think. Occasionally still hoping and waiting for Bending Spoons to finally get things under control. But i don't really believe this will be happening in the foreseeable future. 🫤 I'm out as soon as i find a proper replacement for Evernote. (But until that happens, i expect bugs to get fixed and Everote to provide the services i'm paying for!) They have been fixing bugs. One of the Android bugs you reported was fixed in this latest release. All of the bugs I've reported except for not being able to disable tasks in calendar have been fixed. Missing attachments have been fixed, attachments recovered, and affected users actually compensated with two free months of service. 1 Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 5 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: They have been fixing bugs. One of the Android bugs you reported was fixed in this latest release. If i understand correctly what PinkElephant wrote, the update came also with new bugs. Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 11 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: Missing attachments have been fixed, attachments recovered, and affected users actually compensated with two free months of service. Line spacing not fixed PDF export not fixed print not fixed Annotation tool not fixed Sketching not fixed etc... Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 4 minutes ago, janndk said: If i understand correctly what PinkElephant wrote, the update came also with new bugs. I can't repro any of his bugs. Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 Just now, janndk said: Line spacing not fixed PDF export not fixed print not fixed Annotation tool not fixed Sketching not fixed etc... You don't have to list them all here. It's not really the point of this thread. Some of the bugs you list namely print and sketching I cannot reproduce. Line spacing is a cosmetic annoyance. Annotation should really get fixed, but it requires specific steps to reproduce and is really an edge case so lower priority. PDF Export has a lot of issues and likely needs to be completely rewritten. This thread was simply to note that there was no new release this week so perhaps they are working on QA and hopefully we'll see next week if that is the case. 1 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 1 hour ago, Powerfab said: The week's not over yet 😉 They don't release on Fridays normally. Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: You don't have to list them all here. It's not really the point of this thread. Some of the bugs you list namely print and sketching I cannot reproduce. Line spacing is a cosmetic annoyance. Annotation should really get fixed, but it requires specific steps to reproduce and is really an edge case so lower priority. PDF Export has a lot of issues and likely needs to be completely rewritten. This thread was simply to note that there was no new release this week so perhaps they are working on QA and hopefully we'll see next week if that is the case. Remember it was yourself who started listing thing 🫵 "They have been fixing bugs. One of the Android bugs you reported was fixed in this latest release. All of the bugs I've reported except for not being able to disable tasks in calendar have been fixed. Missing attachments have been fixed, attachments recovered, and affected users actually compensated with two free months of service." Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, janndk said: Remember it was yourself who started listing thing 🫵 "They have been fixing bugs. One of the Android bugs you reported was fixed in this latest release. All of the bugs I've reported except for not being able to disable tasks in calendar have been fixed. Missing attachments have been fixed, attachments recovered, and affected users actually compensated with two free months of service." No offense, I was simply making the point that they have been taking QA into account and actively fixing things. You simply listed a bunch of edge case bugs that have been covered in other threads and was not the point I was attempting to make. I'm simply trying to be positive here. Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 9 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: Line spacing is a cosmetic annoyance. Changed line spacing is NOT just cosmetic. It changes fundamentally how sections are separated, and have a huge affect when copying text from Evernote to other apps. 1 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, janndk said: Changed line spacing is NOT just cosmetic. It changes fundamentally how sections are separated, and have a huge affect when copying text from Evernote to other apps. Personally I haven't noticed it. If a bug isn't affecting many users fixing it isn't going to be prioritized. Link to comment
Feitz 262 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 1 hour ago, agsteele said: I think it more likely means that there has been a lot of holiday on the team. Exactly, one of the highest roman-catholic holidas today, and in Italy they're even more roman-catholic than we here in Bavaria 🙂 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 Just now, Feitz said: Exactly, one of the highest roman-catholic holidas today, and in Italy they're even more roman-catholic than we here in Bavaria 🙂 Oh I'm Jewish so I didn't realize. 1 Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 5 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: Personally I haven't noticed it. If a bug isn't affecting many users fixing it isn't going to be prioritized. Personally I haven't noticed attachment vanishing (lately), and seems to have affected only a few persons = Low priority. So Bending Spoons shouldn't have used time and effort for fixing that. Right? 1 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, janndk said: Personally I haven't noticed attachment vanishing (lately), and seems to have affected only a few persons = Low priority. So Bending Spoons shouldn't have used time and effort for fixing that. Right? I'm sorry, data loss takes priority over a cosmetic issue. At this point I have no interest in arguing with someone who is going to debate in bad faith. You come off as very angry and you are directing that anger at a fellow user. That isn't needed so I'm no longer going to engage. 2 Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: I'm sorry, data loss takes priority over a cosmetic issue. At this point I have no interest in arguing with someone who is going to debate in bad faith. You come off as very angry and you are directing that anger at a fellow user. That isn't needed so I'm no longer going to engage. You constantly call other users problems for low priority and cosmetic issue. 3 1 Link to comment
Level 5* s2sailor 2,417 Posted May 30 Level 5* Share Posted May 30 I admire those that can remain positive in the current situation, and I completely get those that are just worn down with problems affecting them. I’m not so affected that I’m currently looking to jump ship, but I’m also worn out by the problems. Today I looked at Files again to see if there have been any changes and discovered that the docs tab no longer filtered just docs. It showed all 50k files that are in the all tab. I don’t know if this bug affects others or just me. I don’t use the feature so just moved on. It will be nice when bugs more noticeably get fixed, and fewer new ones get introduced. 3 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 Just now, s2sailor said: I admire those that can remain positive in the current situation, and I completely get those that are just worn down with problems affecting them. I’m not so affected that I’m currently looking to jump ship, but I’m also worn out by the problems. Today I looked at Files again to see if there have been any changes and discovered that the docs tab no longer filtered just docs. It showed all 50k files that are in the all tab. I don’t know if this bug affects others or just me. I don’t use the feature so just moved on. It will be nice when bugs more noticeably get fixed, and fewer new ones get introduced. You get out what you put in. If you're just pissed off by every single bug it's going to eat away at you and you'll be unhappy... over software. Not a great way to live. Either accept things are imperfect or endlessly hunt for the perfect thing. Link to comment
janndk 665 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, mackid1993 said: You get out what you put in. If you're just pissed off by every single bug it's going to eat away at you and you'll be unhappy... over software. Not a great way to live. Either accept things are imperfect or endlessly hunt for the perfect thing. I have paid for service that I don't get. 1 1 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 Just now, janndk said: I have paid for service that I don't get. I suggest you contact your bank, explain this to them and initiate a chargeback for your membership. You have every right to do this. Link to comment
Level 5* s2sailor 2,417 Posted May 30 Level 5* Share Posted May 30 This is a business transaction. It has nothing to do with my feelings. I put in, what is now a substantial amount of money, and I expect a functioning, polished app. I have hope that it will get there, but the journey has been more bumpy than it should have been. Evernote has required more patience on my part than any other app I have ever used. 4 3 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 Just now, s2sailor said: This is a business transaction. It has nothing to do with my feelings. I put in, what is now a substantial amount of money, and I expect a functioning, polished app. I have hope that it will get there, but the journey has been more bumpy than it should have been. Evernote has required more patience on my part than any other app I have used. I just haven't had that experience. 10.87 was a bad release, but besides that it's been smooth for me. I'm sure you have many more notes than me since you've been here since the beginning so I don't want to discount your experience. It just hasn't been mine. I even opened a support ticket about that billing question I had and it was answered within 24 hours as was my follow up question. I'm a happy customer. Considering most people come on online forums with issues, I imagine that most Evernote users are silent and happy. I'm sorry that the road has been bumpy for you, and I hope things smooth out as the new developers continue to get their bearings (it's only been a year). I've also noticed just from looking at LinkedIn profiles that many of the Evernote developers are very young, some graduated college during the pandemic. Perhaps as they gain some experience working on the app, code quality will improve! Link to comment
Feitz 262 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, s2sailor said: Evernote has required more patience on my part than any other app I have ever used You absolutely speak my mind. Apart from Vista maybe... 2 Link to comment
Feitz 262 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, mackid1993 said: Perhaps as they gain some experience working on the app, code quality will improve! Well, code quality for an app with allegedly 200 mio. subscribers shouldn't be left to a bunch of newbies, should it? There should be proper training and code reviews before they are allowed to program anything relevant? At least I hope so... 3 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,754 Posted May 31 Level 5 Share Posted May 31 I doubt there is more than a tiny fraction of these 200 Million users left. That was likely a figure from a time where the number of accounts (≠ active users ≠≠ paying users) was seen as an asset. It turned out that accounts that don’t perform are not an asset, they are a liability. Without earnings the hyped unicorn missed it‘s chance of an IPO. The rest is history. So what about a strategy change: When we have so competent users, let’s them sort it out … Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 23 hours ago, Feitz said: Well, code quality for an app with allegedly 200 mio. subscribers shouldn't be left to a bunch of newbies, should it? There should be proper training and code reviews before they are allowed to program anything relevant? At least I hope so... Plenty of young people fresh out of school are extremely bright and skilled. Look at the 16 year old kid, James Gill who reverse engineered iMessage in his spare time. My point was they inherited a lot of legacy code developed by other people who are no longer with the company as they moved the operations to Europe so outside of reading code comments and internal documentation left over from the other team they are now left to reverse engineer things and figure out what breaks what. This is obviously going to lead to mistakes as they clean things up and figure out what breaks what. For all we know the old developers maybe didn't document their code so well, making things harder for the new guys. Link to comment
Feitz 262 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 9 hours ago, mackid1993 said: For all we know the old developers maybe didn't document their code so well, making things harder for the new guys. You are probably right. What I meant is you can't simply let unexperienced developers figure out how to do things by themselves, you need guidelines and code standards otherwise you get an even greater mess. 1 Link to comment
Feitz 262 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 17 hours ago, PinkElephant said: I doubt there is more than a tiny fraction of these 200 Million users left. That was likely a figure from a time where the number of accounts (≠ active users ≠≠ paying users) was seen as an asset. This number was given in a recent blog post by Federico (-> https://evernote.com/blog/2023-recap). 'Migrating data for over 200 million Evernote users to a new system was a considerable challenge, but our efforts are already paying off. ' With regard to app development it is irrelevant whether these are paying or free users. 17 hours ago, PinkElephant said: So what about a strategy change: When we have so competent users, let’s them sort it out … Just the usual rant, nothing to be seen here... Link to comment
Level 5* s2sailor 2,417 Posted June 1 Level 5* Share Posted June 1 15 hours ago, mackid1993 said: My point was they inherited a lot of legacy code developed by other people who are no longer with the company as they moved the operations to Europe so outside of reading code comments and internal documentation left over from the other team they are now left to reverse engineer things and figure out what breaks what. This is obviously going to lead to mistakes as they clean things up and figure out what breaks what. It was Bending Spoons decision on when to let the old team go. I doubt they would have done that if they didn't feel they had a handle on the code. Any resulting issues since the handover is on them. 5 Link to comment
Level 5* CalS 5,307 Posted June 1 Level 5* Share Posted June 1 15 hours ago, mackid1993 said: My point was they inherited a lot of legacy code developed by other people who are no longer with the company as they moved the operations to Europe Not sure 3 year old code qualifies as legacy code, exactly? Anyway, part 2 re those no longer with is more problematic. And who knows if the better coders were with EN or BS? Across time though, Evernote as a product has suffered from what appeared on the outside to be a serious lack of test scripts. An inordinate number of inane bugs found their way to production in legacy days. Maybe it was infectious? 😔 3 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 5 hours ago, CalS said: Not sure 3 year old code qualifies as legacy code, exactly? There was on the backend, they recently moved from a monolithic architecture to microservices. I'm sure there's plenty of tech debt built up in the clients as well. They've clearly been rewriting things piece by piece. 1 Link to comment
Paul A. 675 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 On 5/30/2024 at 2:52 PM, mackid1993 said: affected users actually compensated with two free months of service How many actually compensated? A tiny number of forum regulars. And not everyone was - I've had two corrupt notes identified and fixed and I wasn't compensated. How many more people have corrupt notes and don't know it? They certainly haven't been compensated. It's one thing to be optimistic and positive, but IMHO you take it too far and in doing so you are belittling the very real bugs and pain points that many of us are experiencing. 3 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, Paul A. said: How many actually compensated? A tiny number of forum regulars. And not everyone was - I've had two corrupt notes identified and fixed and I wasn't compensated. How many more people have corrupt notes and don't know it? They certainly haven't been compensated. It's one thing to be optimistic and positive, but IMHO you take it too far and in doing so you are belittling the very real bugs and pain points that many of us are experiencing. I'm going to continue to be optimistic and positive, if that bothers you ignore me. Link to comment
Paul A. 675 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, mackid1993 said: I'm going to continue to be optimistic and positive, if that bothers you ignore me. I believe it's possible to be positive without trivializing other people's issues and experiences. Just my $0.02. 2 1 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 I want to highlight that my intention is to not belittle anyone. As someone who works in tech I understand that issues have to be prioritized based on severity and complexity. I've only intended to provide insight as to why certain things may be taking longer to fix than others based on my own experience, not to belittle others issues. As end users and with closed source software, we unfortunately don't have much insight besides speculation into their development process. I've only tried to state that issues that are impacting major functionality or data integrity are going to take priority over issues that may cause something to look a little funky or a feature that isn't as popular to not work properly in certain situations. Not that these issues shouldn't be fixed, I've only tried to provide some insight as to why they are taking time to be fixed based on my own experience. 3 Link to comment
Feitz 262 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, mackid1993 said: certain things may be taking longer to fix than others based on my own experience, not to belittle others issues. It would be much easier for them and for us if not so many new bugs were introduced. Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, Feitz said: It would be much easier for them and for us if not so many new bugs were introduced. Agreed, that was the whole point of this thread. I was speculating as to whether they are slowing down their cadence to focus on quality over quantity. It's seemed to have derailed from that. I think we all agree more than we disagree. I'd like to see more attention to QA. I just also understand that when there are a lot of bugs they have to be prioritized and some may be harder to fix than others. Some of these may not be quick fixes, we really don't know how complex the line spacing issue is for example. To my point it's not unreasonable to want these issues fixed, but the reality is they make take time and research to get fixed and we really don't know how technical a solution is. We also don't want them to fix something like line spacing and then break something else in the process. It's also important to clarify that a line spacing issue that still allows someone to create a note will not take priority over an issue where data is randomly disappearing from a note. An issue where the sketch function doesn't work on mobile when opened from the main screen, but does work when initiated from a note may take more time to get to because there is a simple albeit less convenient workaround. 1 Link to comment
mackid1993 1,231 Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 I think if you're in the camp that is frustrated by Evernote, it may make sense to look at something more transparent like Joplin. It's not very good for tasks, it would need to be paired with TickTick for that but it's open source. If something is bothering you, there's always the option to open a PR and fix it yourself! Unfortunately with a closed source commercial product we are fully at the mercy of the developers. 1 Link to comment
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