Opening Notes in the Local App is Surprisingly Slower Than the Web Version - Incredibly Frustrating

[Will Wang 13]

In the past few weeks, I have encountered an incredibly frustrating issue with the local app, where opening notes is unbelievably slow. It is astonishing to see that even notes with just a few bytes of data can take over a minute to load, and this slowness seems unrelated to note size.

All my notes have already been fully synced, so that is not the cause of the problem.
I also re-install Evernote from scratch, many times.

What's even more surprising is that when I use the web version of Evernote to open notes, it is faster than the native application. I'm really puzzled by this situation and would like to understand why.

I have noticed that several users have already reported these issues on the forum.
(like, https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/146099-evernote-10576-for-mac-very-slow-to-load-notes/ )

I believe the users deserve a proper explanation.

Thank you very much.

[Will Wang 13]

I did some "bisect"-like testing which might be useful for the Evernote QA team:

10.57.10-mac-ddl-public (598256) Editor: v169.1.20965 Service: v1.68.5 © 2019 - 2023 Evernote Corporation. All rights reserved	slow
10.56.9-mac-ddl-public (4080) Editor: v168.1.20898 Service: v1.68.4 © 2019 - 2023 Evernote Corporation. All rights reserved	slow
10.53.2-mac-ddl-public (3935) Editor: v165.2.20482 Service: v1.65.0 © 2019 - 2023 Evernote Corporation. All rights reserved	slow
10.47.7-mac-ddl-public (3730) Editor: v159.2.19536 Service: v1.59.4 © 2019 - 2023 Evernote Corporation. All rights reserved	slow
10.38.3-mac-ddl-public (3437) Editor: v149.0.18202 Service: v1.53.4 © 2019 - 2023 Evernote Corporation. All rights reserved	ok

 

(could you please also add more regression tests for this issue after resolving it 🙏 )

[agsteele 3,059]

3 hours ago, Will Wang said:

believe the users deserve a proper explanation.

I think that Evernote staff have explained. There are several threads where senior and other Evernote staff have stepped up. The introduction of RTE and it's associated sync has introduced a new data format. When notes are opened a conversion process is triggered on a note by note basis. This is required because a decision was made to continue supporting older versions of the software which require the older format.

I agree with those who believe that a different approach should have been considered but it seems that the problem wasn't fully anticipated. I fear we are where we are and there is little possibility of a radical fix.

[Will Wang 13]

2 小時前, agsteele說:

I think that Evernote staff have explained. There are several threads where senior and other Evernote staff have stepped up. The introduction of RTE and it's associated sync has introduced a new data format. When notes are opened a conversion process is triggered on a note by note basis. This is required because a decision was made to continue supporting older versions of the software which require the older format.

I agree with those who believe that a different approach should have been considered but it seems that the problem wasn't fully anticipated. I fear we are where we are and there is little possibility of a radical fix.

Thank you for your response, @agsteele!

I would like to understand if there are any other workarounds apart from installing previous versions (such as 10.38.3-mac-ddl-public (3437)) that would allow me to continue using the latest version (which aligns with Evernote's goal of moving away from legacy versions).

Is this issue related to having too many notes? (I have 9000+ notes)
Could it be due to some notes having a large size? (Although I suspect it's unrelated to the size of the notes being converted)

Is it possible for Evernote to perform a one-time conversion for all notes?

Additionally, could you share with me more details about the RTE new data format and any relevant discussions regarding this issue?

Thank you!

[agsteele 3,059]

Of course you can revert to an earlier version of Evernote but this will simply be updated to the most recent release when the app identifies that a new one is available unless you disable automatic updates which requires some cleverness with the config.json file which is not recommended

It is nothing to do with the number of notes that you have.  Each note needs to be processed for the new sync when you first access it since RTE was introduced. It should only happen once.

We would imagine that note size might have an impact but I have seen reports of large notes being processed quickly and small notes taking forever.  I suspect that it is an issue which is worst when the servers are at their busiest.  So, my guess, users in the Americas get a worse performance hit than those of us in Europe depending on time of the working day. But that is a guess.

I suppose that it would be possible for Evernote to shut everything down and do some magic in the background but I doubt that users, in general, would tolerate that. Another guess, that trying to do something in the background with a live system would create severe conflicts with notes that were currently being edited/viewed.

I can only assume that the developers considered all these things and concluded the approach taken was the least worst. We know that cancelling the Legacy application was considered and rejected.  Running two separate sync process is what has created the issue or at least made it worse than it might have been.

I think you asking me to do all the searching for you. I'm sorry but I don't have time for for that.  Your favourite search engine should help or you can search in the forums. I can point you to the Evernote Blog for an official message. There are other posts in these forums by a few Evernote staff but mostly we are just fellow users.  The tech stuff is at the very end of the post: https://evernote.com/blog/evernote-pricing-upcoming-features-update/

 

[Spirion 0]

Web version is also very slow for me.

Loader keep loading for minutes.

[agsteele 3,059]

@Spirion I think your issue is the exact opposite to the OP who was saying that the local apps were slower than the web.  You might like to find a thread in the web application forum that is relevant and move your post there or if there is nothing then start a new thread.

[Dave-in-Decatur 4,006]

12 hours ago, Will Wang said:

I have noticed that several users have already reported these issues on the forum.
(like, https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/146099-evernote-10576-for-mac-very-slow-to-load-notes/ )

I believe the users deserve a proper explanation.

In the thread to which you link, the proper explanation is given: the new RTE/sync structure requires a conversion.

Please be aware that these forums are user-to-user. Some, like @agsteele, have an "Expert" badge because they have qualified for it, but they do not work for Evernote. The interesting data in your table could be sent to Evernote support: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new.

[dwainem 21]

They pushed and pushed and pushed to update from the legacy version to version 10. I did last week, and now stuck with this god awful delay when opening notes. It has to happen on a note by note basis? That sucks! Why not an option to have it do that automatically overnight somehow, if desired? I've been a paying member since 2010 and have loved this app. But I'm not a happy camper with this development. 

[dwainem 21]

Also, thanks to agsteele for his post above with the link to the tech stuff. That was helpful to read. 

Federico asked for feedback. I let him have some. 

[Will Wang 13]

22 小時前, agsteele說:

Of course you can revert to an earlier version of Evernote but this will simply be updated to the most recent release when the app identifies that a new one is available unless you disable automatic updates which requires some cleverness with the config.json file which is not recommended

It is nothing to do with the number of notes that you have.  Each note needs to be processed for the new sync when you first access it since RTE was introduced. It should only happen once.

We would imagine that note size might have an impact but I have seen reports of large notes being processed quickly and small notes taking forever.  I suspect that it is an issue which is worst when the servers are at their busiest.  So, my guess, users in the Americas get a worse performance hit than those of us in Europe depending on time of the working day. But that is a guess.

I suppose that it would be possible for Evernote to shut everything down and do some magic in the background but I doubt that users, in general, would tolerate that. Another guess, that trying to do something in the background with a live system would create severe conflicts with notes that were currently being edited/viewed.

I can only assume that the developers considered all these things and concluded the approach taken was the least worst. We know that cancelling the Legacy application was considered and rejected.  Running two separate sync process is what has created the issue or at least made it worse than it might have been.

I think you asking me to do all the searching for you. I'm sorry but I don't have time for for that.  Your favourite search engine should help or you can search in the forums. I can point you to the Evernote Blog for an official message. There are other posts in these forums by a few Evernote staff but mostly we are just fellow users.  The tech stuff is at the very end of the post: https://evernote.com/blog/evernote-pricing-upcoming-features-update/

 

Thank you for your continuous and helpful responses. I really appreciate your assistance.

Regarding automatic updates, I downloaded the previous version from a third-party website, not from the app store. I'm not sure if this version will still be automatically updated.

Regarding the conversion process, I believe users would be more inclined to this approach if they were adequately informed about the potential time it takes for the conversion. However, as you mentioned, the developers might have considered all these factors, which still leaves me somewhat confused.

Once again, thank you for providing the information. I apologize for giving the impression that I was asking you to search for me. That was a miscommunication on my part, and I will improve on that. Also, the technical details about the Conflict-Free Replicated Data Type (CRDT) in the article you provided have given me a better understanding.

Wishing you all the best.

[Will Wang 13]

17 小時前, Dave-in-Decatur說:

In the thread to which you link, the proper explanation is given: the new RTE/sync structure requires a conversion.

Please be aware that these forums are user-to-user. Some, like @agsteele, have an "Expert" badge because they have qualified for it, but they do not work for Evernote. The interesting data in your table could be sent to Evernote support: https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new.

@Dave-in-Decatur 
Thank you very much for your reminder, which has helped alleviate some of the uncertainties in my mind. I also appreciate the information you provided regarding Evernote support. Thank you!

[Will Wang 13]

7 小時前, dwainem說:

They pushed and pushed and pushed to update from the legacy version to version 10. I did last week, and now stuck with this god awful delay when opening notes. It has to happen on a note by note basis? That sucks! Why not an option to have it do that automatically overnight somehow, if desired? I've been a paying member since 2010 and have loved this app. But I'm not a happy camper with this development. 

@dwainem I strongly agree with the "an option to have it do that automatically overnight" 

You can try version "10.38.3-mac-ddl-public (3437)" as I mentioned, I downloaded it from https://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/21849/ 

[PinkElephant 8,780]

We are now at 10.57.10 on the Mac.

Downloading and using a release 20 cycles BELOW the current release is one of the most stupid proposals I have read. It is not only removing a wealth of functions and bug fixes, it will cut you off from any support as well. Nobody can predict how this oldie software interacts with the current data. It will work, somehow.

Delays in opening existing notes are related to the conversion of the data structure to the RTE data format. EN is working on the performance. If one is annoyed by a once-in-a-lifetime delay when opening a note (per note), installing the newest version is the way to get the fastest possible code.

[agsteele 3,059]

1 hour ago, Will Wang said:

Regarding automatic updates, I downloaded the previous version from a third-party website, not from the app store. I'm not sure if this version will still be automatically updated.

The app store versions of the apps are notorious for their unreliability when interacting with external applications and the OS. So going for the direct download is, in my view, always a better approach.

Even though you downloaded from an external repository the application is likely to attempt to update.

As @PinkElephant notes 10.38 is a long way back in time. You have postponed the conversion process by opting into the much greater potential for note duplication. With the added issues that have since been addressed.

 

[Will Wang 13]

28 分鐘前, PinkElephant說:

We are now at 10.57.10 on the Mac.

Downloading and using a release 20 cycles BELOW the current release is one of the most stupid proposals I have read. It is not only removing a wealth of functions and bug fixes, it will cut you off from any support as well. Nobody can predict how this oldie software interacts with the current data. It will work, somehow.

Delays in opening existing notes are related to the conversion of the data structure to the RTE data format. EN is working on the performance. If one is annoyed by a once-in-a-lifetime delay when opening a note (per note), installing the newest version is the way to get the fastest possible code.

You may not have experienced this frustration, which is why you use the word "stupid."

If users are forced to go through ten thousand note conversions, with each conversion causing a one-minute interruption and no other good workaround, using an older version is a practical approach.

In the older versions, there may be bugs that users haven't yet experienced, but they might not be as severe as ten thousand minutes of interruption.

Before choosing to leave Evernote, users can only do this and then come back to test the latest version every quarter or every two quarters to see if this issue has been improved. This was also my process when transitioning from legacy to v10.

Previously, when I was working with colleagues in developing Firefox, if we found significant issues through telemetry, such as constant browser crashes, UI freezes, or major security issues, we would understand the severity and might revoke that release or release a patch as soon as possible instead of asking users to continue using a problematic version. We knew that every major bug occurrence would result in a certain level of user loss, so we would try to minimize this impact.

Regarding the Evernote issue, currently, I haven't come up with a better approach than using an older version to bypass it. If you have any suggestions, please share them.

[PinkElephant 8,780]

You can have a clever frustration, and draw stupid conclusions. Something that solves one issue (in fact it doesn’t solve anything, it’s just postponing the conversion of the database) with a ton of side effects usually is no solution. You promote to go back 20 release cycles, to a release from May 2022, more than a year ago.

Do it for yourself: Fine

Post it here, with a solid discussion of the negative side effects: Maybe

Post is as easy go lucky fix: This draws answers that try to point out what you didn’t mention.

Since nobody knows what changed in a code base in 20 release cycles, promoting to go this far back is in my opinion reckless. EN is a server based app - the server software is updated as well. It is no good idea to combine this with outdated clients.

Just for the complete picture: I always keep the installer files of any app 1 or 2 releases backwards. This is an option if something would go wrong with an update.

And yes, I do have a delay when I open an older note for the first time. I think EN should do a background conversion, either on the servers or on a client - but currently they do it on demand, and this is slowing things down a little. Nobody must be happy about it.

[Will Wang 13]

5 小時前, PinkElephant說:

You can have a clever frustration, and draw stupid conclusions. Something that solves one issue (in fact it doesn’t solve anything, it’s just postponing the conversion of the database) with a ton of side effects usually is no solution. You promote to go back 20 release cycles, to a release from May 2022, more than a year ago.

Do it for yourself: Fine

Post it here, with a solid discussion of the negative side effects: Maybe

Post is as easy go lucky fix: This draws answers that try to point out what you didn’t mention.

Since nobody knows what changed in a code base in 20 release cycles, promoting to go this far back is in my opinion reckless. EN is a server based app - the server software is updated as well. It is no good idea to combine this with outdated clients.

Just for the complete picture: I always keep the installer files of any app 1 or 2 releases backwards. This is an option if something would go wrong with an update.

And yes, I do have a delay when I open an older note for the first time. I think EN should do a background conversion, either on the servers or on a client - but currently they do it on demand, and this is slowing things down a little. Nobody must be happy about it.

The difference in our perspectives on this issue lies in the following:

1. You can perceive the problems caused by the bugs that have been fixed over the past year, while I am unaware of them (of course, I trust that the official team has made significant improvements).
2. I can feel the pain caused by this conversion issue, while you only perceive it as "slowing things down a little."

Therefore, our perspectives naturally differ.

I don't have an in-depth analysis of the impact of this bug. I don't know how many people are actually affected, I don't know the average note-loading time for most users, I don't know if the official team has estimated this, and I don't know how they assess the severity of this bug.

As an ordinary user, I can only rely on my own experience and the sample around me. I can say that several people around me have encountered the same issue, and it's not just a slight slowdown but a significant delay. Interestingly, "NONE of them" have reported it on the forum, except for me. One of them even canceled his subscription, but the system offered him a discount to retain it.

[PinkElephant 8,780]

There are numerous threads about a delay on opening, you just need to scroll the forum.

It needs a fix, that’s obvious.

The point I made is that reverting to a version more than a year old and 20 release cycles backwards is no sound advise.

[Will Wang 13]

6 小時前, agsteele說:

Even though you downloaded from an external repository the application is likely to attempt to update.

 

You are right, I just got the following message:

 

6 小時前, agsteele說:

You have postponed the conversion process by opting into the much greater potential for note duplication. With the added issues that have since been addressed.

It sounds like Evernote has put me in a difficult situation. 🫠

[laurence.glazier 144]

One approach (perhaps this has already been mentioned?) to address the issue of notes opening slowly would be a keyboard macro opening them in turn. This would provide a client-side solution which can be left running, perhaps on a secondary computer, to update the format for every note. (It could take days or weeks.)

I am sure Evernote have considered this possibility but it could also be done independently.

Having manually scrolled through a large proportion of my notes, it does seem to solve it to linger on the slow ones. At the lower right it says "Saving". When the format change to complete, it says  "All changes saved." Occasionally I need to scroll up and back down to get this. The process does not seem to change the "Date updated".

If people are reliant on particular notebooks for meetings coming up, it may help to do this procedure manually for those notebooks beforehand. A once-off effort.

 

[Will Wang 13]

9 分鐘前, laurence.glazier說:

One approach (perhaps this has already been mentioned?) to address the issue of notes opening slowly would be a keyboard macro opening them in turn. This would provide a client-side solution which can be left running, perhaps on a secondary computer, to update the format for every note. (It could take days or weeks.)

I am sure Evernote have considered this possibility but it could also be done independently.

Having manually scrolled through a large proportion of my notes, it does seem to solve it to linger on the slow ones. At the lower right it says "Saving". When the format change to complete, it says  "All changes saved." Occasionally I need to scroll up and back down to get this. The process does not seem to change the "Date updated".

If people are reliant on particular notebooks for meetings coming up, it may help to do this procedure manually for those notebooks beforehand. A once-off effort.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. It's a very interesting solution indeed.

I might consider giving it a try, as using a tool like Sikuli could potentially help me achieve that....

[Kusheran 0]

This is a company killer.  Go back to the older version immediately.

[Silvio'ss 25]

I started to use EN web version, and I've been getting satisfactory results. The slowness continues but on the other hand, the Tasks work well, unlike the App for Mac where the tasks are duplicated or return even after being deleted.

[Dave-in-Decatur 4,006]

15 hours ago, Kusheran said:

This is a company killer.  Go back to the older version immediately.

Welcome to the forums. It's 2 weeks since the last post in this thread, so evidently Evernote is not quite dead yet. Please be aware that these are mainly user-to-user forums, not a venue for directing commands to Evernote. For that purpose, start a support ticket at https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new.

[PinkElephant 8,780]

16 hours ago, Kusheran said:

This is a company killer.  Go back to the older version immediately.

Aha - says who ?

In this case it may be better to go to the newest version, 10.58.3 for PC and Mac. Although there are still some slow opening notes, performance got significantly better, at least for me and many others who reported about an improvement in the forum.

[Will Wang 13]

7 小時前, Dave-in-Decatur說:

It's 2 weeks since the last post in this thread, so evidently Evernote is not quite dead yet.

A company of significant scale is unlikely to collapse within two weeks, but please do not underestimate the severity of an issue that seriously troubles users. If enough people are affected for a prolonged period of time, the impact can be substantial.

[Will Wang 13]

7 小時前, PinkElephant說:

In this case it may be better to go to the newest version, 10.58.3 for PC and Mac. Although there are still some slow opening notes, performance got significantly better, at least for me and many others who reported about an improvement in the forum.

This is helpful (I haven't tried it myself. I'm not sure if the official team claims that this version resolves the issue or if it's based on feedback from the forum).
 

7 小時前, PinkElephant說:

Aha - says who ?

This is also helpful, for infuriating users...

[PinkElephant 8,780]

@Kusheran You claimed full insight in 2 field of competence, business administration (company killer) and software engineering (old version). As another user I wanted to get informed about the qualifications leading to this insight.

Or might it be it was plain polemic … ? Then I would say: Avoid the kitchen if you can’t stand the heat.

Edit: User added for clarity 

[Will Wang 13]

2 小時前, PinkElephant說:

You claimed full insight in 2 field of competence, business administration (company killer) and software engineering (old version). As another user I wanted to get informed about the qualifications leading to this insight.

Or might it be it was plain polemic … ? Then I would say: Avoid the kitchen if you can’t stand the heat. 

I'm not sure if you are responding to me or referring to @Kusheran who mentioned "company killer."
I don't understand why you took the term "company killer" so seriously. Evernote performs well in several aspects, and I believe it will continue to thrive. I also hope it becomes even better. It is a great tool, and I would promote and appreciate a tool, but I wouldn't try to infuriate another user who is disappointed with it.

Regarding using older versions, for me, it is a last resort. I believe I have already expressed my thoughts on this matter and discussed the reasons for our differing views on this approach.

[bollenb 3]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:47 AM, agsteele said:

I think that Evernote staff have explained. There are several threads where senior and other Evernote staff have stepped up. The introduction of RTE and it's associated sync has introduced a new data format. When notes are opened a conversion process is triggered on a note by note basis. This is required because a decision was made to continue supporting older versions of the software which require the older format.

I agree with those who believe that a different approach should have been considered but it seems that the problem wasn't fully anticipated. I fear we are where we are and there is little possibility of a radical fix.

They always have the possibility for rolling back to a previous version (ie without RTE). I think the situation is unacceptable, and we should collectively start evaluating other options. Anyone up for this?

 

[s2sailor 2,426]

2 hours ago, bollenb said:

I think the situation is unacceptable, and we should collectively start evaluating other options. Anyone up for this?

Folks that are unhappy are already looking around and there is plenty of information on other options in the forum already.

[S. A. W. 1]

If this is a "conversion" issue, why does it happen with NEW notes?  If I create a note today, isn't it created in the current format?  Why would a new note need "converting".

Scott

 

[Dave-in-Decatur 4,006]

10 minutes ago, S. A. W. said:

If this is a "conversion" issue, why does it happen with NEW notes?  If I create a note today, isn't it created in the current format?  Why would a new note need "converting".

Scott

 

Can you say a little more? You're right that recent notes shouldn't need converting. How long a delay are you seeing when opening a recent note? Is it consistent with every note all the time, or do some notes and some situations seem to have more problems?