Tag Editing, Adding now has more friction this makes use of Evernote as a knowledge system weaker

[simoncurrey 4]

My primary use for Evernote is a knoweldge system. I have about 20,000 notes. So ease of adding tags is fundamental. Therefrore hugely disappointed at how Legacy has d-installed and the newer alternative is high friction and takes 3 times longer. Tried F3 and its clumsy. 

It sends a message that you are abandoung my use case. I will be keeping my eyes open for alternatives that see this use clearly.

Happy to be convinced that I am mssing something. 

[gazumped 12,072]

2 minutes ago, simoncurrey said:

Happy to be convinced that I am mssing something.

Hi.  Not exactly sure what the glitch is here - I'll grant you the options have changed but it's still pretty easy to add tags to notes;  where exactly are you finding roadblocks? 

[simoncurrey 4]

OK I have just spotted the graphic is now at the bottom not the top. I am running Windows extended screen and the bottom gets hidden. So will adjust. If I could I would add it to the Legacy location. To save have to move from top to bottom.

[Mike P 2,981]

There are several ways of adding tags to notes and some may suit you better than others. They include:

• Typing the tag name in the bottom tag field (tags are shown that start with the letters types)
• Adding tags to the note information window
• Using the add tags dialog box (alt+ctrl+T on windows. You can browse the tags in the hierarcy or search. In this case search shows all the tags that contain the search letters
• You can drag tags from the sidebar onto the note rither in the notelist or the note itself
• You can copy tags from one note to another by selecting the tags, copyig them using ctrl+C, and then pasting them into the tag area at the bottom of a note. (You can also paste a comma separated list of tag names as text)

[MvdH 490]

I agree 100% that adding/removing tasks is a much slower process right now for my use cases. I have ~15000 notes and around ~1500 tags. I have an average of 5 tags per note I guess. I used to bulk-organize tags like a ninja, only using keyboard, using the F3 tag dialogue is much slower in refreshes and checking/unchecking tags (now by mouse mostly), missing "Hide unused tags" when you have multiple notes selected, need the mouse a lot and before not at all. However, I changed my process, tha way I work, and I am 65% satisfied right now with v10. Legacy was at 80%. Also searching/switching currently is slower, lagging on refreshing while typing. Legacy was much faster. I cannot use my second brain the way I want. Bút I'm satisfied enough to stick around for now, I have found no tagging alternative that is better/faster for all my use cases and Evernote is alright, for now. If they keep up the improvements as they have done, I'll stick around and gladly pay my subscriptions. 

[gsmith58v3 31]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:13 PM, MvdH said:

I agree 100% that adding/removing tasks is a much slower process right now for my use cases. I have ~15000 notes and around ~1500 tags. subscriptions. I have an average of 5 tags per note I guess. I used to bulk-organize tags like a ninja, only using keyboard, using the F3 tag dialogue is much slower in refreshes and checking/unchecking tags (now by mouse mostly), missing "Hide unused tags" when you have multiple notes selected, need the mouse a lot and before not at all.

I am right there with you. I'm closing in on 19K in notes and probably a like or larger number of tags. I have probably spent more time in Evernote than any other program I use, except possibly Chrome.

This is one of two issues that keeps me on Legacy. I use tags extensively, and the process is much slower to the point of being painful. I'm used to adding multiple related notes in batch, tagging one, and using it with "Hide Unassigned Tags." 

Maybe I'm missing something (always a possibility), but I can't even select multiple notes and assign tags in batch. It's basically, one note at a time. The dialog is useless for checking off tags if you have more than a few. All of my tags are nested in folders.

Fix that, and add the ability to set a global font, and I'm all in for v10. It'd be swell if they've moved search and tags back to their previous locations, but that'd just be icing.

 

[Mike P 2,981]

1 hour ago, gsmith58v3 said:

Maybe I'm missing something (always a possibility), but I can't even select multiple notes and assign tags in batch.

If you select multiple notes a blue dialog box pops up. One of the options on it is to add tags.

Alternatively you can drag the selected notes as a grouip onto the tag in the sidebar (but not vice versa)

[MvdH 490]

On 5/19/2023 at 9:41 AM, Mike P said:

If you select multiple notes a blue dialog box pops up. One of the options on it is to add tags.

Alternatively you can drag the selected notes as a grouip onto the tag in the sidebar (but not vice versa)

This new way is a painfully slow process with the way I and @gsmith58v3 use tags. It is the way how I do it now, though I do it via the keyboard short-cuts.

It is a handicap to currently see all the tags and not "any" use of tags in one compact list like in legacy with "Hide unused tags". How lovely was it to use the keyboard arrows and spacebar to add/remove/merge tags as a ninja.

Much slower process currently, but I accept it (for) now. I changed my workflow a bit, but I would easily pay €2500,- to Evernote to change this and give me sorting on the tags column back at the same time.

I would then even accept the slowness of the app and the racing conditions I experience now, which I did not have in Legacy.

[Mike P 2,981]

9 hours ago, gsmith58v3 said:

tagging one, and using it with "Hide Unassigned Tags." 

One other thought. If you tag one you can copy those tags and paste them into the tags area of any other note. To copy the tags click the first one, shift click the last one and then press ctrl+C (Windows). In fact you can paste any comma separated list of words into the tags area to add those words as tags to the note.

[gsmith58v3 31]

As MvdH said, the first way is handicapped if you have hundreds of tags or have them nested in folders (or both like I have). 

However, I did not know that they could be copied. It's not as quick as the previous method, but copying them could work. Thank you.

I'm one step closer to conversion . 

Thanks again to both of you.

 

[MvdH 490]

19 hours ago, Mike P said:

One other thought. If you tag one you can copy those tags and paste them into the tags area of any other note. To copy the tags click the first one, shift click the last one and then press ctrl+C (Windows). In fact you can paste any comma separated list of words into the tags area to add those words as tags to the note.

I use this sometimes. But when changing tags of hundreds of notes each day, this is so time-wastingly slow compared to legacy. I hope they will speed things up eventually and truely give attention to UX/UI flows through performance glasses. I have a little hope. A few years ago Evernote v10 was unasable for me. Now it's doable, just.

[s2sailor 2,456]

4 hours ago, MvdH said:

But when changing tags of hundreds of notes each day, this is so time-wastingly slow compared to legacy.

"Changing" hundreds of tags a day?!?  Maybe you would waste less time if you got it right the first time 😁.  Couldn't resist.  Though, I am a little curious about a workflow that requires that level of daily tag changing and I use a far amount of tags myself.

[gazumped 12,072]

I'm firmly of the belief that the only thing which drives a nail is hitting it in the head with something heavy.  If you need to spend much time organising when and how you do the hitting,  rather than just swinging a hammer,  you're not fixing as many nails as you could with more hitting,  less organising.  

Having said which I know nothing about your individual situation or system abd everyone works differently.  Just sayin'... 

[simoncurrey 4]

23 hours ago, s2sailor said:

"Changing" hundreds of tags a day?!?  Maybe you would waste less time if you got it right the first time 😁.  Couldn't resist.  Though, I am a little curious about a workflow that requires that level of daily tag changing and I use a far amount of tags myself.

It looks like you are blaming me for not anticipating it's been moved to place that less convenient. Be thoughtful and constructive!

[s2sailor 2,456]

2 minutes ago, simoncurrey said:

It looks like you are blaming me for not anticipating it's been moved to place that less convenient. Be thoughtful and constructive!

Uhm… I guess you didn’t notice I was quoting and responding to someone else and not you.  I also assume one smiley face wasn’t enough.  My response was tongue in cheek.

 Concerning moving the tag location to the bottom, yes, no one was happy about that and there were a lot of complaints when that was changed. I preferred it at the top too, but am now use to the change.

[AlbertR 707]

2 hours ago, s2sailor said:

Concerning moving the tag location to the bottom, yes, no one was happy about that and there were a lot of complaints when that was changed. I preferred it at the top too, ...

... and cannot get a friend of the new placement. It's a UI design fail 😞. Hope they'll give us a possibility to change it.
And (excuse me for replaying my request): Result list should be sortable by tags! 🙏

[MvdH 490]

1 hour ago, AlbertR said:

... and cannot get a friend of the new placement. It's a UI design fail 😞. Hope they'll give us a possibility to change it.
And (excuse me for replaying my request): Result list should be sortable by tags! 🙏

Yes, the result list should be sortable by tags, like I can in Legacy. Why? Because of my TSW/GTD use-case. 🙂 »  

 

[MvdH 490]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:04 PM, s2sailor said:

"Changing" hundreds of tags a day?!?  Maybe you would waste less time if you got it right the first time 😁.  Couldn't resist.  Though, I am a little curious about a workflow that requires that level of daily tag changing and I use a far amount of tags myself.

Fair remark and challenge. I am a COO and I organize my private and work life fully in Evernote. I deal with 25+ projects every day, involving 30+ people. I have an ADHD like brain and need external structure to function well (very well). I use the TSW way of GTD in Evernote. See some details here: 

 

[Alessandra 38]

It is reassuring to hear that I am not alone in wishing we could tag as we did using legacy. I will try the copy suggestion. Still will be less swift that legacy. I do not use evernote to collaborate or as a substitute for trello. I use it as a knowledge base and for that legacy was 200% better

 

[PinkElephant 8,829]

For me the current tagging options in v10 work as a full substitute to the legacy tagging. Operationally I have no delays.

What was nice was the Tags overview page in legacy, that showed my tags and the number of notes for each one. It helped with tag housekeeping. The current tags page requires more scrolling.

[Alessandra 38]

6 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

For me the current tagging options in v10 work as a full substitute to the legacy tagging. Operationally I have no delays.

What was nice was the Tags overview page in legacy, that showed my tags and the number of notes for each one. It helped with tag housekeeping. The current tags page requires more scrolling.

For me it does not. It makes the whole process much longer and less efficient. It would have been nice if they left both options open.

[gsmith58v3 31]

On 5/20/2023 at 12:40 PM, gazumped said:

I'm firmly of the belief that the only thing which drives a nail is hitting it in the head with something heavy.  If you need to spend much time organising when and how you do the hitting,  rather than just swinging a hammer,  you're not fixing as many nails as you could with more hitting,  less organising.  

Having said which I know nothing about your individual situation or system abd everyone works differently.  Just sayin'... 

I don't 'change' tags all that frequently, but I do add a number to each note and often in series. My thought process is always, 'How will the future me search and find this?' That definitely takes thought and time upfront. 

I imagine most long-time users that have used various features in Evernote for years have developed very individualized and idiosyncratic practices that are now baked in both in to mind and in structure.

 

[gazumped 12,072]

5 hours ago, gsmith58v3 said:

developed very individualized and idiosyncratic practices

...Er,  I don't necessarily agree;  it depends obviously what you're tagging and why you're going to be searching in the future,  but as a long term user I mainly depend on Evernote's advanced search options to find stuff.  Any technical post on any topic is going to be riddled with specialist (and easily findable) terms about that topic.

Anything to do with commercial transactions is going to have customer numbers and purchase numbers linking transactions (and series' of transactions) together. The people and companies I deal with all have unique identifiers - <name> and <company> with differentiate the Sam Smith who works for Amazon from that nice lady down the block who walks neighborhood dogs. 

Even meetings have built-in unique IDs - my 20230523 1100 meeting is easily identified,  and different from the 20230523 1400 meeting later - and in any event it's easy to turn up all meetings on that date and choose from a short list.

I mainly tag as part of a maintenance task when I find that a search which should turn up a very short list of hits accidentally generates a screenful.  I'll tag one group or another just to make it easier next time.  Or might change some titles / add some dates or otherwise 'curate' the heck out of my list.

I should caveat that my standard title is:

1. Date (yyyymmdd) of the event or activity that's creating this note. (All notes have a creation date,  but that doesn't allow for me being lazy and only documenting activity a week later,  or wanting to create a note about a future event.)
2. Type - random keyword for what this note is about:  receipt / webinar / phone call
3. Principal - as in 'principal character';  who is this from,  or what company is holiding this event
4. Keywords - more about what's going on here: "budget meeting" / celebration meal whatever...

But everyone can use whatever works for them.

[Dave-in-Decatur 4,006]

6 hours ago, gsmith58v3 said:

I imagine most long-time users that have used various features in Evernote for years have developed very individualized and idiosyncratic practices that are now baked in both in to mind and in structure.

 

47 minutes ago, gazumped said:

...Er,  I don't necessarily agree;  it depends obviously what you're tagging and why you're going to be searching in the future,  but as a long term user I mainly depend on Evernote's advanced search options to find stuff....

... and then proceeds to describe a marvelously idiosyncratic and evidently thoroughly baked-in practice.  Agree to disagree, disagree to agree ... the circle of (forum) life.

[AlbertR 707]

I'd like to describe what my standard note decoration is:

• title: <who> - <what's to or general theme...>[: <amount>]
• creation date: always adjusted to the event, activity, release or publishing date of the note's content
• reminder date: until I have to do something (newly set if current milestone is reached...)
• reminder done time: only set if really all is done...
• location(notebook): only used to categorize epic sections like "Family", "Work" "Banking", ...
• tags: to categorize
  • = <what> is content
  • _ <who> is involved
  • @ <where> tooks place
  • ~ <whom> from whome or where it got the initial information
  • < <year> to easily group notes by a year
  • § <location> to describe a physical location where important (non discardable) paper docs are stored
  • > <when> like "1-now", "2-next", "3-next-...-Meeting", "8-wait", "9-deposit"...

This allows to use favourite searches like "tag:=bill tag:>1-now -reminderTime:day+3 -reminderDoneTime:*" to list all bills to pay within the next 3 days 😉

And it describes, why

• the easy use of tagging functionality is such important to me (to come back to the topic of this thread).
• managing creation, reminder and reminderDone times is basically necessery (but not really useable in EN10 so far)

[gsmith58v3 31]

20 hours ago, gazumped said:

...Er,  I don't necessarily agree;  it depends obviously what you're tagging and why you're going to be searching in the future,  but as a long term user I mainly depend on Evernote's advanced search options to find stuff.  Any technical post on any topic is going to be riddled with specialist (and easily findable) terms about that topic.

But everyone can use whatever works for them.

I certainly understand your perspective and don't disagree. I use identifiers in most of my notes, in fact, I used the exact format you do for individual identifiers. I write queries for a living, so I get search.

And if I want to surface one or two notes, that works. However, most often, when I search, I don't want to find one specific note, I want to find groups of notes related to various individual topics. And, the way "my mind" works (or doesn't),  that topic name might not be immediately clear. 

I would admit there are likely thousands of better methods developed by smarter people than me, but mine works, and it 'seems' fairly efficient to me, so...you know . 

Isn't this the paradox of Evernote, it allows users all sorts of flexibility to develop different workflows, but when a long-used feature disappears, it can cause momentary (or clearly longer) chaos for individuals.

 

[Dave-in-Decatur 4,006]

2 hours ago, gsmith58v3 said:

Isn't this the paradox of Evernote, it allows users all sorts of flexibility to develop different workflows, but when a long-used feature disappears, it can cause momentary (or clearly longer) chaos for individuals.

Absolutely agree! Two-thirds of the complaints about Evernote would disappear if they hadn't made it so darn versatile!😄

[gsmith58v3 31]

6 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Absolutely agree! Two-thirds of the complaints about Evernote would disappear if they hadn't made it so darn versatile!😄

And it's long-time success... This is 14 years or longer of continuous daily use for me. I can't think of many (any) applications I have used longer: perhaps Excel and Word. Even at that, Excel is the only one close in frequency. Use anything daily for 14 years, and you're bound to develop some deeply engrained habits