Integrating AI into Evernote

[Paul A. 609]

I thought I'd start a discussion on what people might want to see in terms of AI in Evernote. Microsoft just announced they are starting to test their AI that they call "Copilot" in OneNote. See this announcement and embedded video for a preview of what they hope to achieve.

Similarly, Google is also working on embedding AI into all their tools. Though Google doesn't have a direct Evernote competitor (unless we count Google Docs and Drive, which some may use for some of the same use cases as Evernote), they've also put out a very interesting video that provides a vision of how they plan/hope to implement generative AI into their products.

OpenAI's GPT-4 (the AI that powers Microsoft's CoPilot) is not exclusive to Microsoft and can be licensed by third party software products, so Evernote could theoretically license it and integrate it into the product. Although GPT-4 only just released to the public, GPT-5 is already under development is rumored to be scheduled to release next year. These AI products are going to get better and better, and could become almost expected within a couple of years.

For my part, I'm not currently begging for an AI in my note taking app, but I could see myself changing my mind pretty quickly if I start to rely on these AI tools in other parts of my life. Thoughts?

[gazumped 11,652]

I'm vastly cynical about the flood of new products and services trying to upgrade their image (and prices) with the magic initials.  I'll admit to having found AI useful in one area - I always complain that reading the average technical manual is like reading the inventory from a big food market.  You get a flood of new information,  but unless you also know a lot of background - like how to fry an egg,  or make a flapjack - just importing facts is almost useless.  

AI's have now read all the inventories - and they also read the cookbooks.  Ask one how to find and fry an egg and you'll probably get a helpful answer.

-Or in my case I wanted to achieve something in Microsoft's Power Automate.  I spent three days trying to work it out from the published how-to's,  Youtubers and technical material but I wasn't even sure what commands I needed to use.  I asked ChatGPT nicely and it listed the code for me - and based off of the commands it suggested I could then find the right help page and confirm whether or not GPT was correct.  It actually wasn't - but I did get a big push in the right direction.

If you want to know the source of a quotation,  but don't know the exact wording - again AI is your friend because it already read ALL the possible misquotations so it knows what you need.

But I hate 'black box' systems - where I don't know what's happening behind the scenes,  I can only see what I'm told.  If AI is going to make my notes for me - how do I know it captured everything I need?  If it files my stuff away - how do I know I'm seeing everything I captured?  

-And if I don't practise some level of control,  what happens to my knowledge?  (In a past life I ran something like a trading desk with lots of internal and external numbers to call - I had a push-button desk phone and I must have had 100 numbers in my head that I called regularly.  With the advent of more modern phones I no longer dial an actual number,  and have trouble remembering my partner's number - she's on speed dial so I don't need it.)

And of course you can get killer text out of an AI - as long as you don't feel you should break the rules to make a point,  as I have several times in this response.  AI text is bland,  unemotional and unimaginative.

If AI can learn my habits and common steps so that using Evernote becomes more intuitive - tags and notebooks are suggested for me,  clipping and screen shots automatically adjusted to size,  and I'm able to talk to the app and get help to find the notes I want...  I'll be in favour.  For anything else - I hope there's an 'off' switch!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

19 hours ago, gazumped said:

If AI can learn my habits and common steps so that using Evernote becomes more intuitive - tags and notebooks are suggested for me,  clipping and screen shots automatically adjusted to size,  and I'm able to talk to the app and get help to find the notes I want...  I'll be in favour.  For anything else - I hope there's an 'off' switch!

So much I want to comment on in your post, @gazumped, but my non-artificial intelligence needs to be otherwise engaged today. I'll just say, WRT what I've quoted above, that that sounds OK--kind of applying steroids to smart filing in Web Clipper (currently nonfunctional!) and note suggestions typed into Ctrl+Q quick switch. BUT -- in order to do that, will the AI service that Evernote licenses need to read all my notes? Presumably so. And then will all my notes become part of its general knowledge-base, to be used whenever a 10th-grader is trying to cheat on his homework? If so, Evernote AI is gonna be a hard no for me.

[agsteele 2,941]

Personally speaking, I have no interest in AI in Evernote and really hope that the many other issues are tackled long before AI gets attention. 

I, too, am ill at ease with my note data feeding the brain.

[lost_gweedo 73]

I'm generally cold to the idea.  I've only found one area that is intriguing-I'm playing in Notion and asked it (I hate saying AI, maybe algorithm is a better call-sign) to find all my action items in a note.  That was kind of handy, even if each of the action items lacked the context they were pulled from.  Interesting, but is it worth the BenSpoon folks taking time away from completing existing development expectations?  Nope.  

[RJLUK 307]

8 hours ago, lost_gweedo said:

Interesting, but is it worth the BenSpoon folks taking time away from completing existing development expectations?  Nope.  

It looks like service providers might have to offer certain features whether they like it or not, because more and more users will start asking for them and even expect them. If the providers don't offer these features, users might switch to other options. Ideally, it would be great if the providers could give users the option to turn off these features or offer an easy-to-use no code coding method. One example of a service that does this is Filterize. In fact, Filterize must be a prime candidate for a buy out by EN/BS?

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

Sadly, @RobertJLee, you may well be right about users demanding features that services will feel obliged to include. Even if the users doing the demanding have no real idea what the feature is good for or how they will use it; they just want to be able to say that they have access to it.

[RJLUK 307]

For those of us who use chat GPT in tools such as Notion/Reflect/obsidian etc you can now use it within the web browser version of Evernote ON A MAC.

see https://anygpt.app/

I am not affiliated or connected this works and i find it really useful.

Please dont start harassing me about wether AI is useful within EN IMHO it is and I use it. Others can take it or leave it but this is a simple elegant solution.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

9 hours ago, RobertJLee said:

Please dont start harassing me about wether AI is useful within EN IMHO it is and I use it. Others can take it or leave it but this is a simple elegant solution.

No harassment coming, just curious what kinds of things you use it for in EN. I can't imagine it being useful for me, but that may only mean my imagination is too limited!

[RJLUK 307]

Well for example

• Like many i end up clipping whole web pages = i use AI to summarise and replace the content- even build a list of key points
• I do a lot more writing now within Evernote I can come with an initial idea of a blog post for example "how do you explain how to actually make some money on line" while out walking dog- send to evernote- get home .....run that expression through AI
• Get ai to generate a summary of an article about that...then a list of key points then some tweets......
• If you are not writing then it is useful to say "please explain xxx in simple terms and provide citations and references"

The more you use it the more you think mmmmm I can use AI to do that.

And yes like it or not many on line are using it behind the scenes and not saying so.

Disclaimer- This forum post was NOT written by AI

[Tonysaaa 3]

I am waiting for AI in Evernote. It will transform the way of doing things, analyzing my second brain and so much more. It is now far from being zettelkasten and Notes linking has just been recently (relatively) released. So I am waiting at least Gpt-3 or 4 to arrive to do basic, routine AI tasks, like:

1. Analyze content and make table of contents with tree-structure
2. Link all connected by sense notes to each other with a hierarchy 
3. Select all images in all notes and compress them (for God's sake how long can I wait for this feature). 
4. Summarize the notes, drive conclusions
5. Instantaneously search internet for needed data
6. ideate

 

and so much more!!!

 

[gazumped 11,652]

4 minutes ago, Tonysaaa said:

It will transform the way of doing things

...As long as it doesn't also transform the cost of doing things...  

[Tonysaaa 3]

1 minute ago, gazumped said:

...As long as it doesn't also transform the cost of doing things...  

well it will transform everything, the cost, the speed, the quality and will evolve into new things and connections that is a fact 

[gazumped 11,652]

My point was that if users find that AI provides valuable additional features it will inevitably increase the cost of getting access to those features.  Everything is free for the moment because the AI services are learning at your (and my) expense how to interact with real people. I'd like to keep open the option to use a non-AI product to keep the cost down!

[Tonysaaa 3]

22 minutes ago, gazumped said:

My point was that if users find that AI provides valuable additional features it will inevitably increase the cost of getting access to those features.  Everything is free for the moment because the AI services are learning at your (and my) expense how to interact with real people. I'd like to keep open the option to use a non-AI product to keep the cost down!

Well obviously in the long run the world will be controlled by those who will control AI)  
I am afraid non-AI versions will become obsolete very fast

[agsteele 2,941]

For sure AI will arrive. I suspect that it will not be the full-blown GPT you may be hoping for. Rather it will be a gradual release of various functions and capabilities. Will it cost more? Who can say but I would anticipate that there will be a cost implication. Possibly limited to paying subscribers, perhaps even only for Professional rate users.  My guess - no inside knowledge.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

4 hours ago, Tonysaaa said:

I am waiting for AI in Evernote. It will transform the way of doing things, analyzing my second brain and so much more. It is now far from being zettelkasten and Notes linking has just been recently (relatively) released. So I am waiting at least Gpt-3 or 4 to arrive to do basic, routine AI tasks, like:

1. Analyze content and make table of contents with tree-structure
2. Link all connected by sense notes to each other with a hierarchy 
3. Select all images in all notes and compress them (for God's sake how long can I wait for this feature). 
4. Summarize the notes, drive conclusions
5. Instantaneously search internet for needed data
6. ideate

 

and so much more!!!

 

Let me expand on my earlier question. Will Evernote develop its own in-house AI implementation, or license a mature version from another company? And in the latter (more plausible) case, will it firewall your notes from all the other information that the AI mastermind is sucking up in order to do what it does? I have to presume that anyone who is willing to license their AI machine to other companies will expect to receive all the data in return, or else will charge more. If there is no firewall, then your data and ideas become everyone's data and ideas.

Your point #4 interests me also: Will the conclusions derived from the AI-summarized material be the appropriate ones, or even the most useful or plausible ones? Only, I suppose, if the AI engine knows everything about the enterprise (your business, your creative project, or maybe your life) that you are working at in Evernote. Otherwise there will be factors that ought to be taken into account in drawing a conclusion that AI cannot access. And even granted access to all the knowledge, there may be cultural or experiential factors that make an AI-derived conclusion inept for a specific person, circumstance, or organization.

If the ultimate point of Artificial Intelligence is that I never have to use my own intelligence again, then once more, hard no.

[Frki2 76]

I think here https://www.fortuneita.com/2023/04/20/ferrari-bending-spoons-cosi-trasformiamo-evernote-ma-lai-ha-rischi-enormi/ you have some hints about AI in Evernote in future.

 

 

[PinkElephant 8,070]

I read it and ended up confused: EN will make sense out of meeting notes, that the note taker himself doesn't understand. WOW !

But maybe my translation app just fooled me  😇

[Frki2 76]

23 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

I read it and ended up confused: EN will make sense out of meeting notes, that the note taker himself doesn't understand. WOW !

But maybe my translation app just fooled me  😇

It looks to me like AI note summarisation, as Notion or Mem have already. But could be wrong. I was hoping for more info what will be done in that article

[gazumped 11,652]

I thought Grammarly had been doing most of what was discussed for a long while...  but I can see that if an AI app has access to your notes over a period it's going to be able to extract themes and preferences to "guide" you - but that runs headlong into my main worry about AIs:  what happens if I can no longer trust my own notes to be a correct record of a meeting?  Maybe my AI thinks I should be looking at some different priorities...???

[PinkElephant 8,070]

Grammarly is English language only - that's one of the limitations.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

In a new blog post, Bending Spoons lays out its near-term plans for AI, though not in any detail. I'm glad that it will remain opt-in. (They also discuss price changes.) The post is here: https://evernote.com/blog/evernote-pricing-upcoming-features-update/. There's a thread where discussion of the blog post has begun: 

 

[WilliamL 653]

9 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

In a new blog post, Bending Spoons lays out its near-term plans for AI, though not in any detail. I'm glad that it will remain opt-in. (They also discuss price changes.) The post is here: https://evernote.com/blog/evernote-pricing-upcoming-features-update/. There's a thread where discussion of the blog post has begun: 

 

The one feature that really intrigues me is being able to ask the ai questions based on our notes - as a knowledge base tool that could be really helpful. 

[gazumped 11,652]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

being able to ask the ai questions based on our notes

Might make for easier searches - but I know ChatGPT has flat-out lied to me on several occasions (I believe it's politely called 'hallucination' in the trade),  so be cautious...  a quick internet search generated lots of comment around this issue.  Not to mention that anything you share with AI is not (yet) private.

[Frki2 76]

Instead of  fancy-schmancy AI can we get first pinned note? How hard can that be do develop?

[PinkElephant 8,070]

You can pin any note by defining it as a shortcut.

[gazumped 11,652]

1 hour ago, Frki2 said:

Instead of  fancy-schmancy AI can we get first pinned note? How hard can that be do develop?

Not hard at all apparently - have you met the Home page?  https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056265514

[Frki2 76]

2 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

You can pin any note by defining it as a shortcut.

Yes, you could do it like that, but that is not pining of notes in notebook. I just dont get how complicated could be to develop "pin" one note in notebook, so that we have MOC.

 

3 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Not hard at all apparently - have you met the Home page?  https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056265514

Few times, dont use it, never need it, very useless on mobile.

[PinkElephant 8,070]

I want this single feature, I pick this single feature, I ignore anything else. I don't even explain why it is crucial to my workflow, I want it, and Noooo, I won't accept anything else ...

Yawn. Yet another one of these forum posts. First it is always simple, second it is always crucial, third not getting it is ignoring user requests (in fact not really many, for most it would be nice to have, that's it). Could somebody get at least a little innovative in finding new arguments ?

We have explained quite extensively how sort of pinning can be done, using a title field structure plus sorting by title. Not enough ? Too bad !

[bmcl26 487]

I frequently use this on my mobile device and have never encountered any issues.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

Promotional post reported. But this:

1 hour ago, nathanro said:

You can also automate a blog. This is one of the most amazing uses of AI I have seen so far. 
I use it to create content, and I edit it in Evernote before I publish on my blogs.

This is not "creating," this is cranking a handle. Glad to know you at least edit it so you can pretend to be a writer. But at an age old enough to have once used IBM punch cards, I take pride in still being able to craft elegant, insightful, and occasionally entertaining prose without artificial assistance.

[nathanro 0]

@Dave-in-Decatur I just gave a discount for people to use. it is not my product. either way. yes you can write one or 2 articles - great ones - per hour.... I am not sure you can do it faster than that. So if you want to have a Blog that competes with others then you will be left behind. There are tools that can help you achieve better results faster.  Even if you don't use the article writing, using AI to find what to write about, which are the main topics to cover, having some ideas to start with can be a huge help and a time saver. 

So yea, you can still create amazing content but you can get some help with the research. 

[RJLUK 307]

12 hours ago, nathanro said:

If you want to have Ai content generated with SEO in mind. you can always use a tool that was designed by experts and has an amazing price

you can use the coupong "NATHAN" without the "" to get a 10% off your first month suscription

https://journalist.cafe/

You can also automate a blog. This is one of the most amazing uses of AI I have seen so far. 
I use it to create content, and I edit it in Evernote before I publish on my blogs.

What a 🤡

Do it for free if it is your thing using wordpress and https://wordpress.org/plugins/ai-engine/  

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

13 hours ago, nathanro said:

@Dave-in-Decatur I just gave a discount for people to use. it is not my product. either way. yes you can write one or 2 articles - great ones - per hour.... I am not sure you can do it faster than that. So if you want to have a Blog that competes with others then you will be left behind. There are tools that can help you achieve better results faster.  Even if you don't use the article writing, using AI to find what to write about, which are the main topics to cover, having some ideas to start with can be a huge help and a time saver. 

So yea, you can still create amazing content but you can get some help with the research. 

I appreciate this point, and if I were doing a tech or news-related blog the speed would be helpful. Since what I write is more in the humanities (generally speaking), and at this point doesn't require rapid response, I haven't had to do AI-based research. "Better results faster" would require a clear definition of "better"--I'll leave it at that. Apologies for reacting more than responding. I have a good bit of "John Henry" in me--I'll die with my keyboard in my hand.

Actually, maybe what I wish I'd been is this guy, early American essayist, fiction writer, lecturer, and activist John Neal:

Quote

as a printer's devil came in, crying "copy, more copy," he would race with a huge swan's quill, full gallop, over sheets of paper as with a steam-pen, and off went one page, and off went another

 

[Panthael 0]

Competing product launching a beta AI integration.  I do like the idea of being able to distill, summarize meeting minutes and pick out action items automatically.

https://saga.so/ai

[eric99 978]

2 hours ago, Panthael said:

Competing product launching a beta AI integration.  I do like the idea of being able to distill, summarize meeting minutes and pick out action items automatically.

https://saga.so/ai

Yeah, evernote's acquisition by AI expert Bending Spoons was just in time! Without AI you are a thing of the past...

[gazumped 11,652]

27 minutes ago, eric99 said:

Without AI you are a thing of the past...

Everything now has AI rolled into it - for better,  or for worse... <ominous soundtrack>  

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

3 hours ago, Panthael said:

Competing product launching a beta AI integration.  I do like the idea of being able to distill, summarize meeting minutes and pick out action items automatically.

I'm fortunate not to have to be in meetings much anymore, but I think it would be interesting to compare an AI-generated summary of the minutes or notes with the notes themselves (if it was a moderate amount of material). I would be interested in knowing how well the AI understood what seems important to me, whether it was able to highlight what is relevant to my actions, etc.

[gazumped 11,652]

In my admittedly limited experience AI text tends to be wordy,  over-precise and mostly boring.  I'm smart enough to ask for 'lists' or 'general summaries' to keep things shorter,  but even there I usually wind up editing the AI's suggestions and using about 30% of the suggested text.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

18 minutes ago, gazumped said:

In my admittedly limited experience AI text tends to be wordy,  over-precise and mostly boring.  I'm smart enough to ask for 'lists' or 'general summaries' to keep things shorter,  but even there I usually wind up editing the AI's suggestions and using about 30% of the suggested text.

My experience is far more limited (and I plan to keep it that way, for now). But this corresponds with the few samples I've seen here. "Robotic" would be another adjective I'd use, not surprisingly. I'm a retired academic in a field that involves a good deal of literary criticism, including questions of authentic authorship. I never understood why students, in a class where we'd been working on exactly that, thought they could a term paper plagiarized off the Internet past me. I'm guessing same for AI: more work for professors tracking down the cheating than the students put into the papers. Does not end in charitable grading.

Apologies for digressing. "Wordy, over-precise and mostly boring." 

[Jon/t 1,275]

30 minutes ago, gazumped said:

wordy,  over-precise and mostly boring

Like all the meeting notes I get sent😂

[fstanev 0]

Hey everyone, I am one of the makers of Saga and saw that people came to our website from this community and decided to join.

AI / LLMs are really exciting and summarizing meetings or generating text is really just the beginning. People love it now but there is much more to come in Saga and other notes/docs apps. I am sure that Evernote is looking into this as well. 

AI is already able to browse the internet and command other tools - imagine that you can tell your app to run tasks for you in the background while you are checking your notes.

[abdc 1]

Integrating AI into Evernote. It's been there, done that:

https://www.engadget.com/2018-03-12-evernote-ai-tasks-hands-on.html

[gazumped 11,652]

I'd be happy to have something like ChatGPT trained on my own database so that I could raise prompts like "show me notes that relate to the Omega project launch" and refine results with "exclude anything to do with accounting" - as long as said results aren't being fact-checked by a third party, or used to train the AI in any way related to my data.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

30 minutes ago, gazumped said:

I'd be happy to have something like ChatGPT trained on my own database so that I could raise prompts like "show me notes that relate to the Omega project launch" and refine results with "exclude anything to do with accounting" - as long as said results aren't being fact-checked by a third party, or used to train the AI in any way related to my data.

But ... isn't that just tag:Omega_launch and -tag:accounting? What if one note recorded a meeting about the Omega launch in which you raised an idea, the boss gave you a look and said "I guess there's no accounting for tastes," and you realized that the idea was a non-starter ... and AI omitted that note ... and (since like me you rely on Evernote to remember stuff) you wrote a carefully crafted (maybe AI-assisted) memo proposing the idea? Hmm? What about that, hmm? 

[gazumped 11,652]

So you're sayin'  - bad example?  I guess in the situation I outlined I would've tried a conventional search first.  And as I caveated:  Evernote haven't offered any comments about AI security / training yet.  The last official release on that did hint that the company had sensible concerns about security,  but we have yet to hear whether or how they'll implement them. 

I use ChatGPT quite a lot now but I have switched off the Chat History feature so my queries can't be used for training and get deleted every 6 hours.

[Dave Edwards 244]

When Bending Spoons acquired Evernote they promised that we would be seeing a variety of new features added.  They are now in the testing phase of using artificial intelligence to clean up your notes.

https://daveedwardsmedia.com/2023/06/02/ai-note-cleanup-added-to-evernote/

[gazumped 11,652]

Whilst @Dave Edwards' video is no doubt informative,  I hope it includes a suggestion that 'prompts' or questions to AI should always be polite and respectful - I for one want to get along famously with our new cyrbernetic overlords when they do take over.  The Law of Unintended Consequences suggests that mistakes might be a bit dangerous...  https://www.vice.com/en/article/4a33gj/ai-controlled-drone-goes-rogue-kills-human-operator-in-usaf-simulated-test

(Note the word 'simulated' there...  Skynet isn't in charge - yet.)  

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

6 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Whilst @Dave Edwards' video is no doubt informative,  I hope it includes a suggestion that 'prompts' or questions to AI should always be polite and respectful - I for one want to get along famously with our new cyrbernetic overlords when they do take over.  The Law of Unintended Consequences suggests that mistakes might be a bit dangerous...  https://www.vice.com/en/article/4a33gj/ai-controlled-drone-goes-rogue-kills-human-operator-in-usaf-simulated-test

(Note the word 'simulated' there...  Skynet isn't in charge - yet.)  

 Reminds me of a story from WWII about some automated radar-controlled airborne thingy that was being tested before a group of government and military officials, and persisted in buzzing straight at Winston Churchill. I believe development was halted.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

19 hours ago, befamousvideo said:

I've been using Evernote for 13 years. I'm actively staying up to date with the top of AI news. This technology is not going away whether you like it or not. AI will continue to get more powerful. Soon we'll have the option to own our own LLM or Generative AI like ChatGPT. Evernote will be benefited by integrating AI. Evernote has already announced AI Note cleanup and voice search coming soon. Additional integrations could happen through AI powered APIs and Plugins for Evernote. Features that allow tags to be smarter, notes to be more searchable and camera images to include metadata and other data will be helpful for power users.

I note that this "user" did not respond to my request for "I am not a robot" confirmation, so I'm thinkin'.... The robots are still not good enough at sounding like humans to persuade me of anything, not even when they robotically call me and warn me robotically about my car insurance expiring. But evidently AI is now self-marketing, so at least it fits into the modern world.

[gazumped 11,652]

Hmmn.  That post has now mysteriously disappeared <evil grin> since it wasn't a cry for help or any form of relevant comment or assistance to this discussion.

[Roxane Lapa 1]

I notice AI has been added to Evernote. Is there a way to remove it or opt out?  I don't want AI having access to my notes and I am especially opposed to it using my notes for learning/improving itself.

[gazumped 11,652]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:57 AM, Roxane Lapa said:

I notice AI has been added to Evernote. Is there a way to remove it or opt out?  I don't want AI having access to my notes and I am especially opposed to it using my notes for learning/improving itself.

If you read the documentation,  AI services are strictly opt IN.  If you don't want it,  don't use it.  AI has no access to your notes and they will not be used for training even if you do use the service.

[Roxane Lapa 1]

22 minutes ago, gazumped said:

If you read the documentation,  AI services are strictly opt IN.  If you don't want it,  don't use it.  AI has no access to your notes and they will not be used for training even if you do use the service.

Thank you