Artificial Intelligence, Graph View, Mind Maps, Self Organising?

[Silent Hunter 5]

Basically I'm always going back to Evernote because it's still the most stable and bug free note taking app. However sometimes I am missing the cool feature from other apps.

• Artificial Intelligence (ChatGPT style) to help summarise, write, rewrite walls of text. Lookup information and so on.
• I want a Graph View of my linked notes. And I want to be able to auto link notes by just typing something like {other note}.
• Please let us generate beautiful mind maps like the ones at https://www.mindmeister.com/.
• I don't want notebooks or folders anymore. The AI in Evernote should organise my stuff, I just want to write and forget until I need it again.

In my opinion you win the internet with those features plus the stability you already have. Thank you and have a nice day.

[PinkElephant 8,077]

Most apps run in the background on a pretty dull data structure. What looks hip and modern on the front end is in the back end mostly efficient number crunching. EN is about to undergo a major overhaul of what they had been running since 2014 at least.

For my feeling this is enough in the pipeline for the next months. And it will open the road to better collaborative tools, which will need time to evolve. About your points!

1. If you want ChatGPT, use ChatGPT. These guys used a lot of effort (and venture capital) to get where they are now. What is currently hyped is a test period - we will see if the hype prevails when they ask money for the service.
2. There have been 3rd party efforts for visually displaying notes, their relations and communalities. Try moio-map or bubble browser. Ah, sorry, can’t try: All these attempts failed completely - nobody was able to build a business model, and the services disappeared when the developers went out of business. I doubt this approach is sustainable: In the first try it is wow and super, but on really using them their usefulness was from my experience limited. 
3. Mind Mapping software is available, both free or paid. If you want to use one, get one. Mindmeister is not a good example, AFAIK it is cloud based and could not be integrated.
4. You can do today without notebooks: Just stop using them. You can stuff everything into your default notebook, there is no limit to this approach.

[Silent Hunter 5]

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Most apps run in the background on a pretty dull data structure.

What is your point here?

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

What looks hip and modern on the front end is in the back end mostly efficient number crunching.

Don't get the point here again.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

EN is about to undergo a major overhaul of what they had been running since 2014 at least.

So what?

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

For my feeling this is enough in the pipeline for the next months.

Who are you? What exactly is enough? You seem to know more than I do. Please explain in detail.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

And it will open the road to better collaborative tools, which will need time to evolve.

Cool but I don't want that.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

If you want ChatGPT, use ChatGPT. These guys used a lot of effort (and venture capital) to get where they are now. What is currently hyped is a test period - we will see if the hype prevails when they ask money for the service.

Thank you for the kind offer however I'd like to user their API inside Evernote. I don't want Evernote to rebuild ChatGPT. I'm not in for the hype, it would be useful for me.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

There have been 3rd party efforts for visually displaying notes, their relations and communalities. Try moio-map or bubble browser. Ah, sorry, can’t try: All these attempts failed completely - nobody was able to build a business model, and the services disappeared when the developers went out of business. I doubt this approach is sustainable: In the first try it is wow and super, but on really using them their usefulness was from my experience limited. 

Which approach? I want the Evernote guys to implement another kind of view for data. Don't get what your experience has to do with it. I personally need this privately and for work and I don't want to switch to other tools.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Mind Mapping software is available, both free or paid.

Really? Thanks for pointing that out.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

If you want to use one, get one.

Thank you for your kind offer.

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Mindmeister is not a good example, AFAIK it is cloud based and could not be integrated.

Who decided whether it's good or bad? You?

30 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

You can do today without notebooks: Just stop using them. You can stuff everything into your default notebook, there is no limit to this approach.

From my point of view this is the most valuable part of your answer. Thanks.

[PinkElephant 8,077]

You seem not to ask yourself what sort of expertise a company like EN builds over the years. This expertise is a major part of the intrinsic value of a company. That may be the key question here: You can’t make an AI-engineer out of a database specialist just by sending him to evening school for a few months. EN has a lot of experience in building and running a massive parallel cloud structure - and AFAIK none in AI.

They employ this expertise currently to rebuild the cloud database and the syncing to/from the apps. A wise decision: Use what you can, stop dreaming about what could be done if you could do (but in fact can’t).

About the visualization: All attempts of independent developers failed - at least commercially. Why should EN sink money into that hole ? Would you pay more for your subscription if there would be a few nice graphs painted on the display ? How much more ? Oh, you want it for free: That’s where the former attempts failed. They could not make a return from it.

Mindmeister runs on it’s own cloud. It integrates with Meistertask, from the same dev. It can’t be integrated with EN, and that’s why it is a bad example. BTW the dev makes his money today with Meistertask, which is a web based tool for collaborative task and project management. Mindmeister serves as an extension to it: You make a MindMap initially, and can convert nodes into tasks to build the project from the mindmap. Pretty slick, but as an unique approach nothing you can easily integrate anywhere.

[DTLow 5,736]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:31 PM, Silent Hunter said:

• I don't want notebooks or folders anymore. ... I just want to write and forget until I need it again.

5 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

You can do today without notebooks: Just stop using them. You can stuff everything into your default notebook, there is no limit to this approach.

My notes are organized with minimal "notebooks or folders"    
Evernote actually has no support for folders    
instead, organization is based on Tag Methodology, with two fields in the note record; Notebook and Tags 

[Westonpok 0]

Our hope as loyal Evernote enthusiasts is that BendingSpoons will leverage their winning AI technologies into tools that reveal new insights, groundbreaking visualization features, and better UIUX across the Evernote platform. As powerful as Evernote search, shortcuts, saved search, filters, tags, and simple ways to structure, link and merge notes and ideas -It is still lacking powerful compare/contrast analytic insight visualizations among notes and tags across notebooks and stacks.

[PinkElephant 8,077]

We will see what happens in the future.

In the past, most attempts known to me to add visualization to the core app by 3rd party devs (Mojo Map, Bubble Browser) ended in economical disaster.

So I wouldn’t expect too much - it seems the commercial value is limited.

[ArronH 2]

On 12/22/2022 at 6:32 PM, PinkElephant said:

If you want ChatGPT, use ChatGPT. These guys used a lot of effort (and venture capital) to get where they are now. What is currently hyped is a test period - we will see if the hype prevails when they ask money for the service.

Obviously this doesn't require a billion dollars in funding. Just requires using the Chat GPT API. Individual developers were building and launching products using this within hours of the release so we can almost certainly expect big strides in this area once Uri Geller gets his spoons in order.

[PinkElephant 8,077]

Forget it. These guys currently make an extended beta phase, allowing a lot of people in to get some stress applied on their system. Once it is reliable, expect a paid usage. No dev with a sane mind will make his own project dependent of such a black box.

The only exception is Microsoft -  but they own a large chunk of that AI-chat- company.

[ArronH 2]

3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Forget it. These guys currently make an extended beta phase, allowing a lot of people in to get some stress applied on their system. Once it is reliable, expect a paid usage. No dev with a sane mind will make his own project dependent of such a black box.

The only exception is Microsoft -  but they own a large chunk of that AI-chat- company.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The API has launched, obviously it is paid for but it's price is already rapidly decreasing. 

You saying that Notion, Clickup and hundreds of other companies are wrong to integrate it. Have you even tried it? It's mind blowing... And ChatGPT 4 is launching this week. 

https://the-decoder.com/openai-api-for-chatgpt-pricing/

[PinkElephant 8,077]

First I don't try, why should I, as a user.

Second I tell my assumption that EN will not use it. I can be wrong, we will see.

Third I think all this Chat GPT here and there is an unfounded hype, a marketing gizmo driven by clicks, media attention and a lot of money involved.

AI already HAS a huge impact on day to day life, and it has this role since longer than most people acknowledge. It just was below the public attention. Because a machine now spits out well phrased sentences (which often don't make sense, BTW, depending on the questions presented) it received visibility.

If you read the right publications, you know that big money is already betting on the day when they start commercializing it. This means taking money for using it. Or funding free use for some more time. The interest of Microsoft in this is to break the dominance of Google in the search business, pumping up the volume for BING. So maybe they will keep it free, but harvest user data instead, as Google has done now for many years.

We will be asked to pay for the product, or we will BE the product. Or you believe that this multi-billion engine will be given to mankind as a charity donation. Then start believing in Santa Claus as well, it is as likely he exists.

Now you have the perfect reason why I hope that this ChatGPT-thing will never roam through my EN account. Again, just my opinion about all this train of lemmings.

[ArronH 2]

Ok boomer, nobody said it will be free. Only you are saying that. The API already has a fee and obviously Evernote would upsell this to its users on one of its packages (or include it to remain competitive). 

You have a very odd reaction to technological progress. Maybe Clickup, Notion, Todoist and many others more are all wrong in implementing ChatGPT... Or maybe, just maybe Evernote is the dinosaur rather than the elephant in this case. I suspect the dinosaur considering it's a failing company that had to be acquired as was unprofitable and no longer competitive. 

On 12/22/2022 at 7:33 PM, PinkElephant said:

You seem not to ask yourself what sort of expertise a company like EN builds over the years. This expertise is a major part of the intrinsic value of a company.

What intrinsic value? its a failing company and Bending Spoons has just laid off 129 Evernote employees... so bye bye that so called expertise. 

https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/27/bending-spoons-lays-off-129-evernote-staffers/

But you're forgetting the most obvious point. Bending Spoons is an AI company! How in God's name are they gonna buy Evernote and not incorporate heaps of AI including the most advanced AI that is commercially available which is ChatGPT. 

[PinkElephant 8,077]

„Upsell“ - nice one.

There is another thread about whether and how we all get upsold right now. Lacing it with a little AI makes it sweeter, you think ?

LOL

[ArronH 2]

Hmm... well let's ask ChatGPT what it thinks, shall we?

Q) If you was fully integrated into Evernote, what possible benefits can you forsee there being to an Evernote user? 

A) If I were fully integrated into Evernote, there could be several benefits for Evernote users. Here are a few possibilities:

Better note-taking: As an AI language model, I can help users take better notes by suggesting relevant information, summarizing key points, and identifying important keywords. This could make note-taking more efficient and effective.

Improved organization: Evernote already has a robust organization system, but with my integration, users could benefit from additional suggestions and automation. For example, I could suggest tags or notebooks based on the content of a note or help users quickly find related notes.

Enhanced search: With my natural language processing capabilities, I could help users find notes more quickly and accurately. For example, users could ask me questions like "What are my notes about the meeting with John last week?" and I could provide relevant results.

Personalization: Evernote could use my integration to offer personalized recommendations and insights to users based on their usage patterns and preferences. For example, I could suggest relevant articles or resources based on the topics a user is interested in.

Overall, my integration with Evernote could help users be more productive and efficient in their note-taking and organization, while also providing a more personalized and user-friendly experience.

[ArronH 2]

Q) With further updates to ChatGPT what other possibilities can you imagine there being to Evernote users in the future, ie when upgraded to version ChatGPT 10. 

A) As an AI language model, my capabilities are constantly evolving, and with upgrades to version ChatGPT 10, I can imagine several additional possibilities for Evernote users. Here are a few potential examples:

Multi-lingual support: With improvements to my language processing abilities, I could support multiple languages, allowing users to take notes and search for content in their preferred language. This could be particularly useful for users who work in international settings or need to communicate with people who speak different languages.

Contextual understanding: With better contextual understanding, I could provide more accurate and relevant suggestions for tags, notebooks, and related content based on the content of a note. For example, if a user creates a note about a specific project, I could suggest relevant resources, people to collaborate with, or related notes.

Voice recognition: With improved voice recognition, users could dictate notes to Evernote using their voice, and I could help transcribe the content, suggest additional information, or provide real-time feedback to improve the note-taking process.

Machine learning-powered insights: With machine learning algorithms, I could analyze user data to provide more personalized insights and recommendations. For example, I could suggest when a user is most productive or the best time to schedule specific tasks based on their usage patterns and preferences.

Overall, with upgrades to version ChatGPT 10, I could provide even more advanced and intelligent support to Evernote users, making the note-taking and organization process even more efficient and effective.

------------------------------

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Lacing it with a little AI makes it sweeter, you think ?

Well, all sound's pretty impressive to me. Maybe you wouldn't be prepared to pay an extra few quid a month for all these features. But consider this, when every other note taking app does have these features, why would anyone choose Evernote if it didn't?

[PinkElephant 8,077]

@AaronH Maybe when every other app has AI, it would be a reason (IMHO a real Good one) to use EN instead.

It would prevent my notes to read like that super balanced, well spaced, superbly worded blah blah like the one you posted yourself. The ability of mankind to read through this avalanche of output that is to expect is limited by our life span.

Oh, I know: The countermeasure is to apply another AI to filter through the sea of words, to find the shy fish of meaning that may hide somewhere under the surface. Sounds pretty stupid to me - especially when I am expected to first pay for the vomiting AI, and then for the cleanup team.