Evernote user since 2009, gradually moving away from it...

[lassala 23]

I'll still be using it for a while, but I've been growing less and less willing to stick with it after the last rewrite back in 2020. The general direction and the missing features that make me still use the Legacy version on my Mac are pushing me away.

https://lassala.net/2022/09/02/gradually-complementing-replacing-evernote-with-obsidian/

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

Have you been using it since you last posted in January 2021? A great many features have returned, and some new ones have been added. Reading your blog post, I get this as the gist: Evernote 10 could no longer do everything you wanted it to do--specifically, it could no longer have a tabbed interface, and it couldn't do multiple screens; so you're switching to Obsidian, even though it can't do everything you want, including not being able to do multiple screens or tabs. The logic eludes me.

Looking at the Obsidian Website, a few things stand out to me: plain-text files, Markdown, and local files: "Your notes live on your device, period." I use Evernote to create notes that can include photos or documents, editable without knowing a special syntax, and accessible on multiple devices and OSes without my having to port them over. To me, it sounds as if those who want Obsidian want something that is pretty much the complete opposite of Evernote, which makes me wonder why Evernote had any appeal in the first place. It sounds to me like the two programs serve two equally legitimate but very different purposes.

[lassala 23]

21 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Have you been using it since you last posted in January 2021? A great many features have returned, and some new ones have been added. Reading your blog post, I get this as the gist: Evernote 10 could no longer do everything you wanted it to do--specifically, it could no longer have a tabbed interface, and it couldn't do multiple screens; so you're switching to Obsidian, even though it can't do everything you want, including not being able to do multiple screens or tabs. The logic eludes me.

Looking at the Obsidian Website, a few things stand out to me: plain-text files, Markdown, and local files: "Your notes live on your device, period." I use Evernote to create notes that can include photos or documents, editable without knowing a special syntax, and accessible on multiple devices and OSes without my having to port them over. To me, it sounds as if those who want Obsidian want something that is pretty much the complete opposite of Evernote, which makes me wonder why Evernote had any appeal in the first place. It sounds to me like the two programs serve two equally legitimate but very different purposes.

Thank you for taking the time to skim over my blog post and provide your feedback. Allow me to clarify some points that didn't make into the gist you got:

Have I been using it since Jan 2021? To expand on what I've said, "I use the tool all day long, on a PC, on a Mac, and on my iPhone.... I’ve kept using the latest version on my PC so I could stay updated on their progress". So yes, I've been using Evernote 10 daily, since the beta versions, and I install and read through "what's new" on every update. I'm very aware of what's in the product. 

The logic that eludes you is grounded on a possible misunderstanding. You say "so you're switching to Obsidian, even though it can't do everything you want". Notice the title of my post: "gradually complementing/replacing Evernote with Obsidian". As you've noted, the two tools serve different purposes (with a lot of overlaps, I might add). Having surpassed the 32k mark of notes in Evernote, I'm very much aware of what types of notes I can create in the tool, as well as some of its benefits. My post mentions "Being able to use the same tool seamlessly on a PC, Mac, iPhone, iPad: that’s what got me hooked immediately". 

The previous sentence might elucidate your questions on "why Evernote had any appeal in the first place". You can also check this post of mine from back in 2011 for a deeper dive: https://lassala.net/2011/01/10/how-im-using-evernote/

You gist also disregards the following piece: "I’m gradually learning more about the tool. It doesn’t seem to fit all of my use cases yet. But it does work really well for some of them.  I do see me using the different tools for different parts of my system." 

If you look closely at my post, Obsidian does support tabbed interface, and support for multiple windows is here, albeit not fully functional yet. In its current state, it already works much better than Evernote 10.

Much like Evernote, Obsidian also offers and paid service to have notes stored in their cloud. Or, anybody can do what I'm currently doing: I sync up my notes with Google Drive, and access them on my PC and Mac just fine. For my mobile device use cases, I continue using Evernote.

For certain use cases, I'll keep using Evernote. For other use cases, Obsidian it is. Mark-down doesn't scare me, and Obsidian gives me features that I don't get in Evernote.

I'm going to write further blog posts to illustrate what are the parts of my process and system that I'm moving to Obsidian, and which ones I'm keeping in Evernote.

[Vidalia 23]

The concept of paying a company to store some notes on their server is bit old fashioned now. A decade back it was novelty, now several apps offer this feature, often for free. Hence, this is not a profitable long term business model.

One can keep Word, Excel files in Onedrive, Dropbox and can edit in any device (PC + mobile) using Microsoft Office which is almost free (most people have access to Microsoft Office via corporate licence/school and even if that is not available, it is easy to get a pirated copy of Office or freeware like LibreOffice which is fairly good at editing DOCX/XLSX files).

I am following above workflow for last 2 years and happy with it. I still log in to Evernote to retrieve some old notes. If I think any note is useful, then I'll export it else I'll let my old notes die in Evernote over time. 
 

[PinkElephant 8,077]

The main difference between storing a file on a cloud server and placing it into a note stored on the EN cloud server is additional content.

If you want to add a remark to the file on a normal server, there are some murky ways to do it, and only for text. Short text, often not readable on different platforms.

Stored in a note it is easy: Just type it into the note, attach a picture of the whiteboard, drop an audio from the meeting, whatever. Everything stored with the file, all fully searchable. This alone makes using EN (or similar) for me worth the additional subscription.

And now they added tasks, which adds the timeline as a new dimension: Need to take action on that file ? Simple, add a task. Need to take action on a schedule: Add a recurring task !  Assign it to somebody, file and all ? Done ! Tasks is specific to EN in the note taking field.

Placing a file into a note is not meant to replace a file server.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

@lassala, you're right, I did skim, and I should perhaps not have spoken so absolutely on that small and somewhat careless basis. My bad. But I did, and still do, have the impression that you are recommending that others do as you have done, gradually move away from Evernote to Obsidian, and I stand by my comment that Obsidian (as far as I can see) cannot do everything that Evernote can (and vice versa), so that promoting it as an alternative to Evernote does not make sense for all purposes. As for Markdown--who's afraid of it? I just don't want to bother with it.

14 hours ago, lassala said:

If you look closely at my post, Obsidian does support tabbed interface, and support for multiple windows is here, albeit not fully functional yet. In its current state, it already works much better than Evernote 10.

I'll take your word for the tabs; I simply can't make them out on the screenshot. (I think tabs in Evernote Legacy must have been a Mac thing; I don't ever remember having them in the Windows program, and I would greatly have appreciated them if they'd been there.) The Evernote 10 desktop app absolutely supports having multiple notes open in separate windows (double-click on a note in the note list, or in Windows press Ctrl+Enter).

As for which program/service works better, I say again that they are suited to different purposes, and saying one "works better" is like saying roses are better than butterflies.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

6 hours ago, Vidalia said:

The concept of paying a company to store some notes on their server is bit old fashioned now. A decade back it was novelty, now several apps offer this feature, often for free. Hence, this is not a profitable long term business model.

One can keep Word, Excel files in Onedrive, Dropbox and can edit in any device (PC + mobile) using Microsoft Office which is almost free (most people have access to Microsoft Office via corporate licence/school and even if that is not available, it is easy to get a pirated copy of Office or freeware like LibreOffice which is fairly good at editing DOCX/XLSX files).

I am following above workflow for last 2 years and happy with it. I still log in to Evernote to retrieve some old notes. If I think any note is useful, then I'll export it else I'll let my old notes die in Evernote over time. 
 

Glad this is working for you, though I hope you're not using pirated software, which opens you to both legal issues and (I would imagine) security problems. I use SoftMaker Office as an alternative to MS Office, and it's great, with both free and paid versions--meaning that, as with Evernote, the paid versions can do more than the free ones.

Editing a file, uploading it to Dropbox, downloading it on another device, and opening it there is not the same as editing a note in Evernote on one device, syncing, and opening it on another. As for OneDrive, Google, etc., how private are your documents in these "free" spaces? I prefer paying Evernote with cash to paying Google with my personal information.

[PinkElephant 8,077]

As an Office alternative I use LibreOffice on the Mac. Able to open, edit and save office files, even old and long forgotten formats.

Is delivered with a relational database, which in MS Office is not included in most plans. This leads to the often observed use of Excel tables where a small database would be the better solution.

LibreOffice is my to go when I need to work on MS Office files. For my personal use I have switched to the iWorks software (Numbers, Pages, Keynote) provided by Apple. 

[lassala 23]

6 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

@lassala, you're right, I did skim, and I should perhaps not have spoken so absolutely on that small and somewhat careless basis. My bad. But I did, and still do, have the impression that you are recommending that others do as you have done, gradually move away from Evernote to Obsidian, and I stand by my comment that Obsidian (as far as I can see) cannot do everything that Evernote can (and vice versa), so that promoting it as an alternative to Evernote does not make sense for all purposes. As for Markdown--who's afraid of it? I just don't want to bother with it.

I'll take your word for the tabs; I simply can't make them out on the screenshot. (I think tabs in Evernote Legacy must have been a Mac thing; I don't ever remember having them in the Windows program, and I would greatly have appreciated them if they'd been there.) The Evernote 10 desktop app absolutely supports having multiple notes open in separate windows (double-click on a note in the note list, or in Windows press Ctrl+Enter).

As for which program/service works better, I say again that they are suited to different purposes, and saying one "works better" is like saying roses are better than butterflies.

Not once have I recommended anything to anybody in that post. Again, I've used the word "complement". I've stated a few times it's what working for *my* system and process. There's no feature parity between the two tools. I don't expect them to ever do. I'm picking and choosing what features work best in each tool given *my* needs. Never once have I made a point that one works better than the other *overall*. I don't use tools "just because"; I'm very deliberate at making them work for *me*, on a case-by-case need. 

[PinkElephant 8,077]

The question that arises for me is how many tools are the optimal setup.

Sure some special abilities or features can be gained by employing yet another tool - but at the same time it will spread the use per tool even thinner, and make having the right data in the right spot to use the best tool a challenge. I think that the potential gain is easily overestimated, given that the desired feature may be obvious, the logistical cost of using it is often hidden.

So beside use cases (which are individual) I think a setup should be lean as well, better being based on less than more tools and apps. EN is pretty unique, because it offers a lot under the roof of just a single app, with a lot of broad, general use cases covered.

Just my 5 ct ....

[lassala 23]

17 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

The question that arises for me is how many tools are the optimal setup.

Sure some special abilities or features can be gained by employing yet another tool - but at the same time it will spread the use per tool even thinner, and make having the right data in the right spot to use the best tool a challenge. I think that the potential gain is easily overestimated, given that the desired feature may be obvious, the logistical cost of using it is often hidden.

So beside use cases (which are individual) I think a setup should be lean as well, better being based on less than more tools and apps. EN is pretty unique, because it offers a lot under the roof of just a single app, with a lot of broad, general use cases covered.

Just my 5 ct ....

Yup, many variables are necessary to figure out the optimal setup, which also changes over time. Optimal today; not optimal tomorrow. 100% agree on lean setups. For the vast majority of people, EN covers most use cases they need.

I can't stress enough that I've been a daily EN user since 2009, and I do see myself as a power-user.

Sometimes, all that's needed is a Swiss Army Knife; sometimes, though, we need better pliers, ***** drivers, etc.

Constantly asking myself "why" I'm doing whatever it is that I'm doing helps decide whether I have the most optimal process, system, and tools. 

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

The system-of-tools internal discussion is one I'm familiar with. I've got 3 that I use together. Evernote is great for gathering research and creating initial formulations of ideas, especially at random times when something I'm reading or thinking about stimulates ideas about a different project. When I want to shape the research materials and ideas into a structure and craft the relationships among them, I use Scrivener. It leans a bit toward fiction writers, but is highly usable for nonfiction. It is not as usable across multiple platforms as Evernote, but can give vastly more structure than EN. For actually drafting and polishing a text I use Nota Bene, which is a superior multilingual word processor that incorporates formatting and bibliographical tools designed for academic and other nonfiction writing.

But Nota Bene has its own system for storing, indexing, and retrieving research information, which is very fast and precise, and its own tools for structuring. I'm still working on how best to move info from EN to Scrivener to NB in each instance. NB also lacks EN's cross-platform and in-the-moment capture capabilities. Its structuring tools are less sophisticated than Scrivener's, but I would not dream of doing high-end writing, esp. academic writing, in Scrivener rather than Nota Bene.

So it's a kind of ecology that does repay attention to how the tools interact, and how materials behave in each one. Each of these three is a complex enough system on its own, and frankly I think figuring out the best plan of work keeps my wits sharp. But the idea that I occasionally see in these forums of using Evernote as the one-and-only strikes me as taking "leanness" to an impractical extreme.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

22 hours ago, lassala said:

Not once have I recommended anything to anybody in that post. Again, I've used the word "complement". I've stated a few times it's what working for *my* system and process. There's no feature parity between the two tools. I don't expect them to ever do. I'm picking and choosing what features work best in each tool given *my* needs. Never once have I made a point that one works better than the other *overall*. I don't use tools "just because"; I'm very deliberate at making them work for *me*, on a case-by-case need. 

Apologies if I've been obtuse about this, or maybe just over-reading your remarks. Honestly, some of my obtuseness may be generational. I'm older (I surmise), and don't use social media (for reasons that have nothing to do with age). It doesn't occur to me that anyone would be interested in hearing about my system and process apart from some ongoing discussion about systems and processes, or my offering a recommendation. So I will give you one free "OK, boomer" on this.

[lassala 23]

13 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Apologies if I've been obtuse about this, or maybe just over-reading your remarks. Honestly, some of my obtuseness may be generational. I'm older (I surmise), and don't use social media (for reasons that have nothing to do with age). It doesn't occur to me that anyone would be interested in hearing about my system and process apart from some ongoing discussion about systems and processes, or my offering a recommendation. So I will give you one free "OK, boomer" on this.

LOL, not a boomer, so I'll pass that one along.

I've made my career on building systems and processes for others and am constantly asked to show and explain my own to others. People are interested in hearing. Nothing to do with social media. Just being social.

[Boot17 1,442]

7 hours ago, DavidAron said:

The idea of paying a company to store my notes on their server feels outdated now.

Then two seconds later...

7 hours ago, DavidAron said:

I store my Word and Excel files in services like OneDrive and Dropbox

Storing notes not only on one company's servers, but two companies' servers!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

@DavidAron, welcome to the forums. Hard to know what your point is, but if all a person uses is MS Office, and all a person needs is a place to store documents, then yeah. If a person does wide-ranging work, whether material or intellectual, involving finding and storing information and ideas to be searched, connected, and used later ... then Evernote.

[gazumped 11,652]

If the posts here are a bit disjointed it's because I nuked one user who managed to ask questions featuring the same website in each case. He's now flagged as a spammer unless / until there's another explanation for that.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

Thanks. I decided to leave my post responding to the now-deleted up, since the point I made seems to remain valid, and to be clear enough even without the context I was responding to.