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[ajschmidt 248]

Feature Request: Add Outlining Capabilities to Evernote

Evernote is great, but it's dying for the ability to create Notes that contain Outlines which are easily collapsed and expanded during creation and in use.

One way to implement it would be a switchable editing mode, between standard formatting or outline mode.

In outline mode, pressing the Enter key creates a new outline item, and pressing the Tab key changes the current item into a sub-item.

Clicking on an item's action icon causes its sub-items to collapse out of, or expand into view. That's the way the Ecco Pro PIM did it, and something simple like that would be a good start for Evernote.

The name Evernote implies a product that takes notes -and collapsible/expandable outlines are a huge part of note taking.

[Boot17 1,054]

It's my understanding that before v10 there were a whole bunch of cool features that Evernote wanted to implement, but had difficulty doing so consistently on all 5 platforms and so a lot of them were invariably put on the back burner.

Internally, I sometimes like to think of these long-time-coming feature requests as having a "first requested" date, and then an "amount of time since v10 release" date.

So for this feature request -- we have 9 years of not being implemented pre-v10, but only 1.4 years of not being implemented yet under v10.

Evernote is still playing catch-up with the huge v10 huge overhaul (and issues that grew out of that) and I'm hoping it's just a matter of time before they are now able to tackle cool features like this one, table of contents, back-linking, etc.

(Personal side note that while I think tasks are cool, I wished features like the one in this thread were tackled first -- if possible, I guess. And I don't use the calendar integration at all, so...)

However, I also know that Evernote might not ever implement this particular feature and I am, overall, greatly satisfied with the features that Evernote does currently have. (I've tried over a dozen others note taking apps recnetly and I like Evernote the best hands-down.)

[aukirk 365]

1 hour ago, Boot17 said:

It's my understanding that before v10 there were a whole bunch of cool features that Evernote wanted to implement, but had difficulty doing so consistently on all 5 platforms and so a lot of them were invariably put on the back burner.

I have had similar hopes that this feature would have been implemented by now under v10, with the common editor.  However, now I fear that it is not "splashy" enough to be big release that can be promoted (like tasks and calendar integration).

While I still hold hope that this feature will be released... I am starting to think it is wishful thinking, as they could have integrated this with a number of other long-requested features that were integrated into the new editor when it rolled out in beta at least a year before v10 hit, such as different color highlighters, "grabbable" bullet lists and headers.  In hindsight, the fact that collapsable sections were not part of that rollout makes me wonder whether it will ever come.

[agsteele 2,575]

8 hours ago, aukirk said:

In hindsight, the fact that collapsable sections were not part of that rollout makes me wonder whether it will ever come.

I think that is spot on. There is not evidence that this has ever been on the agenda. I think it could be useful but there are still a good number of existing issues to be resolved. I'm not expecting Outlining in my lifetime.

[PinkElephant 6,763]

My feeling is that as long as EN treats the entire note as an entity, it will not happen.

If they really renovate the syncing, they need to split up notes into smaller, atomic elements. Then only a changed element will sync, not the whole note as it is today. This would lead to each element become addressable - then outlining would be relatively easy to add.

Wait and see what will happen with the syncing renovation.

[leonemadureira 8]

Id to have toggle list, would be very healpful and you a lot of text

[todsandberg 0]

OneNote can do outlining that can collapse/expand. 

This is a critical feature to me and is missing from Evernote.

Here is a link showing how OneNote does it, it's pretty clean (screenshot from link shown below).

I'm sure  there are other ways to make outlining even better, but starting with this simple implementation would be a great improvement.

I would hope that the state (expanded/collapsed) would be remembered from one session to the next.

To Evernote Staff: Where does this feature fall in the priority list for evernote? Is this on the roadmap?

[gazumped 10,720]

2 hours ago, todsandberg said:

To Evernote Staff: Where does this feature fall in the priority list for evernote? Is this on the roadmap?

Hi.  Welcome to the Evernote User Forums which are pretty much exclusively supported by (drum roll) Evernote Users.  Evernote the company haven't indicated whether this issue is actually on their priority lists,  and if it is they're highly unlikely to predict any delivery date,  having not done either for any feature in the past 12 years or so.

As has been said many times in this thread so far - if this is truly an 'essential' feature for you,  you should maybe look to find an app that will provide it.  If it's not,  carry on with Evernote - we may see something in coming months   - or we may not.

Personally I use Workflowy for any collapsible listing that I need to do - it operates on different principles to Evernote but links between the two apps are possible,  so I can switch from one to the other as necessary.

[gazumped 10,720]

Hi.  One of these you mean?  

 

[leonemadureira 8]

8 hours ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  One of these you mean?  

 

Yep. But this post is 10 years old. When it will available?

[gazumped 10,720]

37 minutes ago, leonemadureira said:

Yep. But this post is 10 years old. When it will available?

Hi again - I merged your query with the main thread since you're asking for the same feature.  As to your question,  see my response here - 

 

[gazumped 10,720]

5 hours ago, SteveAbbot said:

I finally committed to using Evernote

5 hours ago, SteveAbbot said:

sooooo disappointed at the lack of this really basic feature.

Hi.  Sympathies,  but Evernote does not have collapsible sections.  Evernote has never had collapsible sections.  Evernote may never get around to providing collapsible sections.  As already said a few times in this thread.  If you really really need 'em,  you may be using the wrong software.  If you can manage without (or use another app*) then stick with it - you never know what Evernote will announce,  because they do not give advance notice of what's in development.

* I use Workflowy,  and it's possible to link between the two applications so I can jump from note to list and back again easily.  Other list apps are available...

[mlondon 1]

On 2/21/2019 at 12:42 AM, Shane D. said:

This was done in order to better enable us to quantify and qualify user requests, and amplify their voice.....we certainly want to relay user feedback/sentiment to our various teams.

I'm sorry, but after more than 10 years of ignoring one of the most requested items for Evernote (The ability to collapse/expand sections of a note as an outline), it is clear that Evernote has no intention of actually listening to its paying customers. 

I'm not sure what user feedback/sentiment you ARE passing on to various teams, but they sure don't seem to be based on any kind of priority with regards to MAKING LIFE EASIER FOR YOUR USERS !!!

PLEASE IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF OUTLINE WITHIN EVERNOTE !

It can't be that difficult...

Thank you

[agsteele 2,575]

32 minutes ago, mlondon said:

It can't be that difficult...

Perhaps it could be that difficult. Few of us could say. I'm not sure that responding to a three year old post adds much. @gazumped has hit the nail on the head. If you need collapsible sections then Evernote isn't, currently, the tool that you need. Perhaps the Workflowy integration he suggests would work.

[Deepakzorbabuddha 0]

I'm a premium customer of evernote, why are you not adding this basic feature. Lack of toggle list is one of the main reason I'm thinking of moving to notion. 

[gazumped 10,720]

9 hours ago, Deepakzorbabuddha said:

I'm a premium customer of evernote, why are you not adding this basic feature. Lack of toggle list is one of the main reason I'm thinking of moving to notion. 

If you read the previous posts in this section you'll be able to understand what's going on. Also that we're (mostly) not Evernote,  just other users.  Hope you enjoy Notion - bye.

[gazumped 10,720]

31 minutes ago, CraigD said:

Hey Evernote Team,

It's been a while since we've requested this with no response. I've moved to WorkFlowy since this feature is critical to me (I'm kinda ADHD). Evernote served me very well for many years so thanks!

Best,
Craig

Hey yourself.  Did you miss the bit about we're (mostly) not Evernote here?  The company do read posts but there's a lot of content and they don't (usually) respond anyway.  Best option is a support request.

And as posted above - I'm also a Workflowy user. It's not an either / or situation - you're allowed to use both...

[JDG Lab 0]

With this feature becoming so commonplace in user interfaces, I'm guessing Evernote doesn't have a good measure of business lost owing to its lag on this, both actual and potential, else it would have been addressed long ago.

[PinkElephant 6,763]

Obviously EN is doing fine without, else they might have implemented it a long time ago … 

If you want to add your vote to the request, use the voting function at the top of the thread. I did so quite a while ago …

[Boot17 1,054]

19 hours ago, JDG Lab said:

I'm guessing Evernote doesn't have a good measure of business lost owing to its lag on this, both actual and potential, else it would have been addressed long ago

I kind of doubt they could have implemented it consistently across platforms pre v10. Maybe the inability to create this feature then is precisely along the same reasoning for moving to the v10 model.

Stuck in a quagmire of legacy tech debt and getting their lunch eaten by new competitors, EN puts all effort into the new v10. It is released and there are is a ton of legacy tech debt to resolve and address... lots of fires to put out. They also wanted to get some big wins with the new version after that -- and for them that was Tasks and Calendar integration. A synchronization overhaul is now also already underway.

Perhaps they do have a measure of business lost due to this feature not being implemented and it pales in comparison to other things they felt they had to do first.

I'd give it some time first since v10 is still relatively new. We may yet see it.

[gazumped 10,720]

52 minutes ago, Bill C said:

I suspect if it were developed it would not be Windows specific.

One of the many reasons for Evernote developing v10 a couple of years ago was to unify the appearance and features of the app across all clients and all supported operating systems.  If collapsing outlines or headings are ever introduced,  then it will be across the board.

[ChrstnaLne 5]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:32 AM, CraigD said:

Dear Evernote Dev Team,

I am an long-time Evernote Premium user, fan and advocate. It is part of my daily workflow, for hours per day I might add. You guys have done a wonderful job with this product and my hat goes off to you... However, this feature would be HUGE to me, and apparently many others. PLEASE consider adding this feature sooner than later. As mentioned, I am loyal but I have begun to research alternatives that would offer this feature. I really don't want to switch though. just being honest You guys rock!!!

Best Regards, Craig

I have to agree, collapsible sections/headers would be a great feature. It's been 3 years since this post, and it appears to be showing great support at 855 votes. Does anyone know if this has been taken into consideration by the development team?

[agsteele 2,575]

4 hours ago, ChrstnaLne said:

Does anyone know if this has been taken into consideration by the development team

I doubt that this is anywhere near the top of the list of things to work on. But Evernote doesn't comment publicly on its plans.

[matthieu. 4]

I miss that for years now, and considering using Notion as Evernote never reply to this kind of request

[gazumped 10,720]

2 hours ago, matthieu. said:

I miss that for years now, and considering using Notion as Evernote never reply to this kind of request

Evernote's version 10 was a response to hundreds of user requests for a client that looked and behaved the same on all devices,  including the web.  They added calendars and tasks and many other features for the same reason.  The fact they didn't (yet) get around to your specific interest doesn't mean they are ignoring it.  And Evernote hardly ever respond to feature requests here...

[ChrstnaLne 5]

7 hours ago, agsteele said:

I doubt that this is anywhere near the top of the list of things to work on. But Evernote doesn't comment publicly on its plans.

That's very interesting. Why is this forum here...

[WilliamL 524]

17 minutes ago, ChrstnaLne said:

That's very interesting. Why is this forum here...

For users to ask questions, get help where possible from other users and to discuss Evernote.  

[ChrstnaLne 5]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

For users to ask questions, get help where possible from other users and to discuss Evernote.  

lol more specifically, why is there a feature request. I hope they view these

[Boot17 1,054]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

For users to ask questions, get help where possible from other users and to discuss Evernote.

Yeah - this is the best place that I've found online to get tips. tricks and workarounds from other users about Evernote and to discuss Evernote in general.

Just now, ChrstnaLne said:

lol more specifically, why is there a feature request. I hope they view these

I think it's just to separate the "problem/bug issues" discussions from the "feature requests" discussions.

I think they do view them as I've seen Staff comment here and there, but like @agsteele said, they rarely comment on feature things they might be working on...

Do companies broadcast features they are planning to implement? If I had to guess I'd think some do (especially smaller or startup companies), but probably most don't.

 

[gazumped 10,720]

36 minutes ago, Boot17 said:

Do companies broadcast features they are planning to implement?

In general,  that would be a hard 'no'.  In any competitive market everyone is going to be adding new features and worrying that the company down the road will hit on some far better idea. It takes time to develop something new,  and if you let everyone know up front that you're working on a new picture widget,  not only is your competition is going to start working on the same thing,  but...

• existing users who want something else will complain endlessly that you're prioritizing the wrong thing.
• existing users who want this feature will demand that you include their particular workflow.
• everyone will want to know when the new feature will be ready - especially your competition who'll want to launch before you.
• should you make the launch on time there's a good chance everyone will have been playing with the competition's version for a while and think it's much better than yours
• should you encounter problems and be late to launch,  your staff will be inundated with demands that the new feature be released now

Or.  You could keep very quiet and let the new feature be a pleasant surprise when it is launched.  At least any fuss happens after the release date!

(I used to work in R&D...)

[WilliamL 524]

1 hour ago, ChrstnaLne said:

lol more specifically, why is there a feature request. I hope they view these

Staff do come into the forum and respond to things every now and then, so yeah i think they are aware of what users are asking for. How much of that makes it into the product and the timeframe of that, that’s Evernote’s call. 

[PinkElephant 6,763]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:07 PM, ChrstnaLne said:

lol more specifically, why is there a feature request. I hope they view these

LOL maybe to make users ask „but why is there a feature request“. You ask the wrong people here, go ask EN support. You will get a nicely worded and very „flexible“ answer, I think.

From our observation EN staff seems to be too busy to usually hang around here.

[Mannato 0]

I think the best way to implement this is just like OneNote does. Any bulleted list is collapsible

[ChrstnaLne 5]

On 8/18/2022 at 4:15 PM, PinkElephant said:

LOL maybe to make users ask „but why is there a feature request“. You ask the wrong people here, go ask EN support. You will get a nicely worded and very „flexible“ answer, I think.

From our observation EN staff seems to be too busy to usually hang around here.

Feature request: EN Forum Administrator.

I came from an environment like Craft and Walling. It was very easy to submit bugs, feature requests and questions. It was also nice being heard and having your suggestions acknowledged by a member of the team. They were transparent with their plans and had a public roadmap. Maybe this is how they are competing with EN.

[PinkElephant 6,763]

The feature request is „toggle list“ - not „do it as the others do“.

You can open your own „do it as the others do“ thread.

[agsteele 2,575]

31 minutes ago, ChrstnaLne said:

Feature request: EN Forum Administrator.

I came from an environment like Craft and Walling. It was very easy to submit bugs, feature requests and questions. It was also nice being heard and having your suggestions acknowledged by a member of the team. They were transparent with their plans and had a public roadmap. Maybe this is how they are competing with EN.

My colleague may have been a little short with you.  However, it can become frustrating when folk jump on the back of other discussions and ask questions which go off on a tangent to the one proposed. Suffice to say that these forums are only other users helping one another.  Occasionally Evernote staff do pop by but it is infrequent that they join in the conversation. 

By all means open a thread which discusses how bugs and feature requests are heard - perhaps in the General Feature Requests area. You are unlikely to get a response from Evernote but staff may notice it as they pass by. In that area other users will be able to add their vote to your idea if they want to support it.

[Just somedood 0]

I'll create an outline note with links to all of my top level items then click on those and bring links or copies of/from those into items into the outline note.  If I do copies I can edit the info to be most updated and summarized better. 

Yes, it would be nice to do hide/show subnotes.

You can put a structure together with tagging too to get something a little more dynamic and almost like the standard outline feature but still not quite and a bit of a pain.

I feel like evernote used to do this like about 10 years ago...

 

[RImbaud 1]

Expandable sections is absolutely essential functionality that OneNote does very well and is far more important to me than the new barebones Task system.  I cannot move from Evernote easily as I have 15 years of Notes.

[gazumped 10,720]

6 minutes ago, RImbaud said:

I cannot move from Evernote easily as I have 15 years of Notes.

Similar situation here,  but if I did decide to move 1) it wouldn't be One note* and 2) I'd probably live with having two lookups - one in Evernote and one elsewhere.  Most of my (almost) 60,000 notes are reference material and archived stuff,  with about 5% (maybe) relating to ongoing activity.

I'd use a triage system to move the 5% - as each new topic comes up I'd copy the old notes across to my new system - either in total or via a comprehensive "previously on" summary.  That would add a one-time hour or so extra to my initial processing for that topic,  following which it's entirely on the new system. 

I have maybe 100 active projects,  so in a week or two I'd have all current (and new) activity on the 'other' system.  I can downgrade my account to Free and go from there.

Compare that with trying to convert 60,000 notes to a new format - it'd take a week just to get the notes across,  plus careful editing to fix obvious errors and ensure data wasn't lost...  And I'd still probably check the new system against the old one for another year to make sure some notes hadn't hit a black hole along the way.  I'd do no other work for a week or more and still be unsure of where I stood...

And oddly I am a big user of expandable notes - I've built up a substantial account on Workflowy which is a deceptively simple - looking outline app.  It now acts as my data index,  linking back into Evernote (and some Cloud drives) for more in-depth document storage.  WF runs in my browser and can jump me to standard texts and/ or links into Evernote,  and Evernote can jump me direct to index entries for given topics in Workflowy.

WF also has desktop and mobile clients and runs in Linux - check it out here 

* The architecture is too different! 

[bbrito 0]

It's easier to migrate to Nimbus Note that Evernote implement toggle lists.

[gazumped 10,720]

On 9/23/2022 at 1:46 AM, bbrito said:

It's easier to migrate to Nimbus Note that Evernote implement toggle lists.

 

 

[Krachan 0]

Seriously the only thing really missing from Evernote. 

I realize that Evernote isn't designed as a "bullet-style" notetaking app, but for taking quality notes, and using your notetaking as a thinking enhancement, you really can't live without proper outline style notetaking, which includes collapsible lists.

Hugely missing feature currently! I ditched Evernote because of (and came back IN SPITE OF) the lack of this feature. It's hugely important to me

[gazumped 10,720]

On 10/23/2022 at 6:13 AM, Krachan said:

It's hugely important to me

I find bullet lists useful too - as well as being a daily Evernote user I'm a Workflowy user which is handy because links to Evernote notes and Workflowy sections can be buried anywhere - like here.  The two apps complement each other in my workflow,,,

[Jeremy Gentles 0]

This is probably the one feature that prevents me from committing to EN 100%. 

[Krachan 0]

On 10/24/2022 at 6:08 PM, gazumped said:

I find bullet lists useful too - as well as being a daily Evernote user I'm a Workflowy user which is handy because links to Evernote notes and Workflowy sections can be buried anywhere - like here.  The two apps complement each other in my workflow,,,

I've also used WF quite a lot, it has a lot of strengths in a simple package. Honestly I'd not be using EN at all, if WF had a better mobile app and searchable text in photos :p 

My problem with it was mainly that it wasn't "version" focused, ie either I'd rewrite something loosing older history/versions of it. Or I'd spent a lot of time manually restructuring and coping thing to give myself record of past solutions and decisions. 

 

[gazumped 10,720]

21 minutes ago, Krachan said:

Honestly I'd not be using EN at all, if WF had a better mobile app and searchable text in photos

Yeah - most of my Evernote notes have attachments and Workflowy doesn't handle third party file storage very well either - theirs are not readable inline,  and have to be downloaded to edit.  But using WF as an 'index' mirroring my 300+ notebook names (with links back to the EN notes) and making quick notes in WF under that heading means I can use the best features of both.  And because I can link and mirror from and to anywhere in WF,  if I need an EN note to be in three places I can file it in all three places in WF to maximise the chance of my fading memory coming up with the correct names.

[CalS 5,132]

After I left EN I started saving images to PDF to enable indexing when need be.  I now use Windows Indexing and search to find things.  I now use WF for notetaking and task management and use links between WF and my file store.  FWIW.

[Caladrio 8]

This request is marked as "solved" by an answer that says, "While this does not mean this is a feature that will be coming, we certainly want to relay user feedback/sentiment to our various teams."

I'm assuming it being categorized as "solved" make it unlikely that anybody's working on it, despite it being an incredibly simple request that was made ELEVEN YEARS AGO.  It's also an extremely simple request that many users would find extremely useful.  A LOT of Evernote users have switched over to Notion, and this kind of stalwart resistance to even the simplest improvement is just mystifying.  It just doesn't bode well for a company when your customers are frequently made to feel vaguely like suckers for continuing go give you their business.

Requested in 2011. Marked as solved in 2019. Another three years and no action taken.

Seriously?

[PinkElephant 6,763]

„Solved“ just means that the user request was answered - not that an underlying request was implemented.

Seriously …

[Caladrio 8]

If your point is that they use the word "solved" disingenuously, I concur.  That certainly isn't how the word is used in real life.

[Dave-in-Decatur 2,891]

3 hours ago, Caladrio said:

This request is marked as "solved" by an answer that says, "While this does not mean this is a feature that will be coming, we certainly want to relay user feedback/sentiment to our various teams."

I'm assuming it being categorized as "solved" make it unlikely that anybody's working on it, despite it being an incredibly simple request that was made ELEVEN YEARS AGO.  It's also an extremely simple request that many users would find extremely useful.  A LOT of Evernote users have switched over to Notion, and this kind of stalwart resistance to even the simplest improvement is just mystifying.  It just doesn't bode well for a company when your customers are frequently made to feel vaguely like suckers for continuing go give you their business.

Requested in 2011. Marked as solved in 2019. Another three years and no action taken.

Seriously?

Clearly a lot of people would like to see this improvement, and find Evernote less useful without it. I get that part. I myself have little use for and no interest in having collapsible lists. I'm confident that I'm not alone, and I hope that others will get that. What I don't get is the implication that Evernote's developers are either incompetent or uninterested in what users need. Evernote is very different from what it was in 2011. A number of things were implemented in the change to v. 10, although that rollout was incredibly clumsily and prematurely handled IMHO. Since the rollout, many things initially missing in or wrong with v. 10 have been added or fixed.

Maybe the answer is (a) it looks simple when it works right, but it's not that easy to get it to work right in Evernote's specific development environment, which has to work on Android phones, etc., as well as Windows desktops; or (b) despite this long and loud thread, this improvement is not important enough to enough existing and potential users to get top priority; or (c) sync issues, which have even more numerous and louder threads on these forums, are a critical problem to which large resources are being devoted, and other things will have to wait; or (d) none of us really  knows what's going on in Evernote's development plans, and while frustrating, this is actually normal.

If Evernote gets collapsible lists going at some point, yay, I'll maybe even find a use for them, and hundreds or thousands of users will truly benefit. If Evernote doesn't get cross-platform sync and note duplication issues fixed PDQ, then they really may be in trouble. But for reference, search the forums for "Evernote is dying" or the like and sort the results by date.

[agsteele 2,575]

5 hours ago, Caladrio said:

It's also an extremely simple request that many users would find extremely useful.

I'm not sure that it necessarily is an easy request. Easy to say and describe but I cannot say what would be needed in the editor to achieve it. Neither do we know who marked the answer as solved. It is usually the original poster of the question. In any case that resolution related to the old, now unsupported version of Evernote. I'd recommend you raise the issue with Evernote devs via Feedback or a Support ticket to get attention for the current version of Evernote apps.

[Bestranger 0]

It's very sad how the developers only consider the community useless. The community can write, a request, but unless you stop paying the premium, they probably won't even deal with it. This app has not brought any innovations to date since I started using it in 2012.

[agsteele 2,575]

I doubt that you could support that claim with evidence. There have been a number of new developments since 2020.

Unless you are still using the older version of the application. In that case download and use version 10.

Of course the new features/functions may not be what you need which I fully accept is the case for some.

[LukaszK 0]

+1 from premium user if it only make difference for evernote team

[MartinKu 0]

Please add this collapse/expand functionality 🙂👍

[Swader 2]

Hello Evernote Team,

I wanted to lend my voice to the many users who feel that being able to collapse sections of a note would be a huge boon to workflows and managing information. 

Thank you!

[BeEfficient 43]

With the drastic price increase, I have hope that this feature - with almost 900 upvotes, will be finally implemented.

[gazumped 10,720]

1 hour ago, BeEfficient said:

With the drastic price increase, I have hope that this feature - with almost 900 upvotes, will be finally implemented.

I have the impression that Evernote got into a lot of technical debt regarding a key feature: syncing millions of users on a daily basis.  Plus they're adding some additional functionality around AIs (which I don't personally care about,  but hey.)  Once they get through re-establishing the basics,  anything is possible - but I'm not going to be holding my breath...

[NWEvern 1]

Come on. A request was made 12 years ago, and Bending spoons will be ignoring this request for how long more ? Just any toggle list will be fine. Doesn't have to be like in Notion. We are OK even the one in OneNote where you just indent and the parent bullet point can be clickable and collapsible. 

[gazumped 10,720]

6 minutes ago, NWEvern said:

A request was made 12 years ago

...And this is relevant how?  Evernote's new owners have been in charge for a whole 6-ish months,  and have dealt with a few touchy subjects like relocating the whole operation to Europe and trying to fix Sync. 

I think they've been more than a little busy.  Meantime there are plenty of toggle lists out there that can be linked to and from Evernote notes.  (I use Workflowy) Even Evernote bullets work pretty well for indents.

I'm sure the new Evernote team will know that this is a highly-requested feature,  but starting from now and with a few thousand other requests flying around it might take a year or two to implement.  Meantime they're not going to say whether,  or when that might happen.  Not ignoring - just not commenting.

[ironman611 0]

This feature is very much needed and will directly result in huge revenue loss or gains since this is one of the main features that users are choosing competitor applications over Evernote for. Long notes are a major problem. I will be leaving as well unless this is implemented soon. 

[agsteele 2,575]

12 hours ago, ironman611 said:

I will be leaving as well unless this is implemented soon. 

Then you should start your plan for what next now. It is unlikely that this will change anytime soon.

The normally recommended way around this is to create short notes and link them together in a Table of Contents. Combined with Backlinks this works reasonably well.

[qwerty6254 1]

Yes, please add collapsible outlining, as many of your competitors have. Also, outline currently is not really outlining at all because subheadings are numbered identically to main headings. Users can only tell the difference by the difference in tab structure. FOr example, this is not a multilevel outline:

1. Main Heading

       1. Subheading

2. Main Heading

        1. Subheading

Or am I missing something?

 

[gazumped 10,720]

16 hours ago, qwerty6254 said:

Or am I missing something?

As I've probably said several times in this thread so far.  I use Workflowy,  which is a fantastic outliner,  but has drawbacks with attachments and images.  I can link direct to to it,  and link from there back to a note;  or I can copy content from one to the other.  No need for Evernote to reinvent the wheel...

Hello World!

[Frédéric Sagaer 1]

Yes, it's a workaround, but soooo cumbersome and impractical, even Workflowy is great... All of this, just to give excuses to Bending Spoons to not do the job... Millions of Evernote customers cannot understand that a few Evernote "experts" doesn't want to listen to this, giving excuses and excuses... Amazing and so disappointing...

[gazumped 10,720]

It's a perfectly reasonable request,  but to expect a company which is currently fixing speed and reliability issues to immediately concentrate on a 'nice to have' option such as this seems overly optimistic at best.  There are alternatives available now.  Realistically if Evernote were already working on this we might see changes in the new year;  but if you need the drop-down feature,  then you'll need to find it elsewhere.

[AlbertR 316]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Realistically if Evernote were already working on this we might see changes in the new year; 

s/in the new year/by the New Year/ 🙏
Since EN changed the internal format of notes to implement RTE, I really hope that this will be the base for features like toggle lists. As a first step you can see a handling icon just before a new list item starts. Currently it enables you move a list item around by Click&hold LMB. Other programs use the same icon to offer more possilities...  😉 

[s2sailor 1,533]

5 hours ago, gazumped said:

No need for Evernote to reinvent the wheel...

Yet they have reinvented things like super and subscript and highlighter in six colors.  

Not everyone is content with the status quo.  Workflowy is a great tool, with its own set of limitations, but is available now as a (and I agree with @Frédéric Sagaer) cumbersome workaround.  The hope and request is the team will, at some point, eventually work on further modernizing the editor and implement some features that some of the newer note apps have found reasonable and maybe even desirable to include.

[Bill C 45]

8 hours ago, gazumped said:

As I've probably said several times in this thread so far.  I use Workflowy,  which is a fantastic outliner,  but has drawbacks with attachments and images.  I can link direct to to it,  and link from there back to a note;  or I can copy content from one to the other.  No need for Evernote to reinvent the wheel...

Hello World!

Saying there is no need for Evernote to reinvent the wheel because a feature exists in a competing product seems odd to me. I don't know much about Workflowy, but they explicitly consider themselves a competing alternative to Evernote per the Worflowy website (see image capture below). I'm sure each (Workflowy vs Evernote) has different features that are stronger than the other, but I'd imagine the users in this Evernote forum make suggestions to strengthen the Evernote product. I don't want to pay for two different products with a large overlap in features. Currently, Evernote still meets enough of my needs to stay a customer, but it seems a feature like the one discussed in this thread for the past 11+ years has a lot of user interest.  Personally, I would have rather seen more focus on notes organization features like this instead of the addition of task management features since I already had a more robust task management services but Evernote is my main knowledge capture, organization, and archive tool.

That said and somewhat unrelated I am happy that Evernote developers have recently focused on and improved the simultaneous note editing features. I realize there is only so much bandwidth for improvement. I've never used nor wanted to use Evernote as a collaboration tool (for me Google Drive still beats everyone on that and is more universally available to other I work with who don't pay for Evernote), but the much more reliable handing of multiple copies of the same note syncing due to using multiple devices has improved due to the work to improve collaborative note editing.  I'm glad the Evernote team chose to focus on improving that existing feature as it relates to the multiple device syncing that existed for year instead of adding a new one.

 

[gazumped 10,720]

Regarding that 'wheel' thing - software engineers at Bending Spoons cost somewhere north of $50,000 dollars^*,  so the cost of developing anything new is pretty high.  Add in the machine time,  testing,  training support staff,  and marketing and you need to sell a lot of new subscriptions to cover it.  All existing subscribers (I assume) get this new feature for free,  so we need to bring new people in.

It may be better for a developer to come out wth something brand new to attract other providers' customers - who may currently be enjoying toggle lists (forinstance) - for their product with better search features or different task options.  I don't have any inside information,  but I have worked in the industry. 

I don't know why this always comes down to me "defending" Evernote - I'm not.  I'm pointing out three very solid facts. 

1. There are no current toggle list options
2. There are unlikely to be any toggle list options in the near future
3. If you need that option now,  you'll have to look elsewhere.

I'm not denying anyone anything - heck if Evernote support lists at some time I will probably use them.  

* (https://jobs.bendingspoons.com/positions/63d9400364643f3cc57d0c6a)

[s2sailor 1,533]

17 hours ago, gazumped said:

I don't know why this always comes down to me "defending" Evernote - I'm not.  I'm pointing out three very solid facts. 

1. There are no current toggle list options
2. There are unlikely to be any toggle list options in the near future
3. If you need that option now,  you'll have to look elsewhere.

I'm not denying anyone anything

Since you asked ...

If you had stopped at the three points we would be in agreement, but then you added #4, "No need for Evernote to reinvent the wheel."  Whether intended or not, to me, that is a pretty dismissive remark intended to shut down the request and its discussion.  Even your opening paragraph was a justification on why you believe Evernote's time would be better spent elsewhere, which is your right, but it is a defense of the status quo.

I often see ideas or requests shot down in these forums, sometimes quite aggressively, and I don't see why. It just stifles conversation and only heats up the discussion.  What may not make sense to one person makes perfect sense to others.  Our input here doesn't influence the development path of the app.  If it did, they wouldn't be working on AI 😏.

[gazumped 10,720]

2 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Our input here doesn't influence the development path of the app.  If it did, they wouldn't be working on AI

 At least we agree on something!

Also:  I'll try to be nicer.  No guarantees,  though...

[Dave-in-Decatur 2,891]

3 hours ago, s2sailor said:

Since you asked ...

If you had stopped at the three points we would be in agreement, but then you added #4, "No need for Evernote to reinvent the wheel."  Whether intended or not, to me, that is a pretty dismissive remark intended to shut down the request and its discussion.  Even your opening paragraph was a justification on why you believe Evernote's time would be better spent elsewhere, which is your right, but it is a defense of the status quo.

I often see ideas or requests shot down in these forums, sometimes quite aggressively, and I don't see why. It just stifles conversation and only heats up the discussion.  What may not make sense to one person makes perfect sense to others.  Our input here doesn't influence the development path of the app.  If it did, they wouldn't be working on AI 😏.

To me, this sounds as if only criticisms of Evernote should be allowed here. Different things make sense to different people--but if one group says "I don't see the problem" the other group has the right to call them names and shut them down? People who have had bad experiences sometimes write here as if it is the only possible experience. Anyone who reports a different, better experience gets called a fanboy.

[Paul A. 496]

5 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

To me, this sounds as if only criticisms of Evernote should be allowed here. Different things make sense to different people--but if one group says "I don't see the problem" the other group has the right to call them names and shut them down? People who have had bad experiences sometimes write here as if it is the only possible experience. Anyone who reports a different, better experience gets called a fanboy.

I think it's important to read the room and pick your moments. This thread is a feature request for a feature that a lot of people are passionate about. It's not a good look for people who don't see the value in the feature to make dismissive comments in a feature request thread. IMHO.

[s2sailor 1,533]

12 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

To me, this sounds as if only criticisms of Evernote should be allowed here.

Not my intent at all and @Paul A. summed it up quite well.  I value discussions that cover both views.  I do though dislike the heavy-handed responses that I sometimes see here concerning feature requests.  That was the main point of my post.

[Dave-in-Decatur 2,891]

2 hours ago, s2sailor said:

Not my intent at all and @Paul A. summed it up quite well.  I value discussions that cover both views.  I do though dislike the heavy-handed responses that I sometimes see here concerning feature requests.  That was the main point of my post.

I guess I will let the user who is being branded "heavy-handed" and "dismissive" in this instance respond. But I'm going to say that considering the tone taken in some threads by people who are having problems with Evernote, I don't quite get the expectation of reverential, or at least robotically flat, commentary on feature requests. I feel that negative comments are allowed to be vigorous  and forceful, and anything else is expected to be whispered. No need to continue this; we're miles off topic. I just wanted to vent a bit about what I've felt as a person who's been called a "defender" once too often.