Yet More Duplicate Note Problems

[Okonomiyaki 9]

I know a workaround is to just have one app open at a time across all devices, but Google Keep has figured this out, surely EN can too.

[PinkElephant 8,103]

You are right, there are solutions out there that avoid the collision problem. They are all younger than EN, and were created having this problem in mind. How do they work ? They build the document from a large number of very tiny building blocks. Once one of this blocks is undergoing an editing, it is locked for all others. The rest of the document remains open. A conflict can only happen if several users try to edit this same tiny element at the same time.

Problem with EN: It treats the whole note (generally speaking) as one big container. It is not segmented down, like Google or MS Office do, just to name two apps that apply this granular design. EN could solve the problem - but they would have to completely change the fundamental design of the notes. Currently each note is sort of a web page, based on HTML. This would not work any longer.

New database, new server and new client programs, new API. In fact a complete overhaul, which would as well render all legacy clients useless. I do not think this will happen, at least not any time soon.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

Work around it is 😄.

Although reading this:

https://evernote.com/blog/ceo-update-january-2022/

Suggests they might be working on it!

[RTRex 0]

On 1/7/2022 at 2:46 PM, PinkElephant said:

You are right, there are solutions out there that avoid the collision problem. They are all younger than EN, and were created having this problem in mind. How do they work ? They build the document from a large number of very tiny building blocks. Once one of this blocks is undergoing an editing, it is locked for all others. The rest of the document remains open. A conflict can only happen if several users try to edit this same tiny element at the same time.

Problem with EN: It treats the whole note (generally speaking) as one big container. It is not segmented down, like Google or MS Office do, just to name two apps that apply this granular design. EN could solve the problem - but they would have to completely change the fundamental design of the notes. Currently each note is sort of a web page, based on HTML. This would not work any longer.

New database, new server and new client programs, new API. In fact a complete overhaul, which would as well render all legacy clients useless. I do not think this will happen, at least not any time soon.

TBH I am not sure if describing CRDT/OT or any other approach and saying that EN is not that is helpful.
I am a paying customer, for many years, yet I find myself more and more often switching to Apple Notes, Google Docs, Notion, Drafts etc., because I don't have time to deal with the almost guaranteed issues and slow performance of EN.

That EN is a distributed system should be opaque to the users. The nonfunctional requirements are clear - speed and consistency, and we are paying money to you guys so that we didn't have to know how it works under the hood.

I am routinely editing very large notes lately, and considering switching away from EN.. again.. because I use it less and less.

Edit: Oh yeah, the reason why I have written this comment is because I just had 3 duplicate notes created when added 50 screenshots to a note on my iPad.

Edited January 17, 2022 by RTRex

[PinkElephant 8,103]

EN v10 is for whatever reason sensitive with large text based notes. They lead to syncing issues, at least from what was reported in the forum.

A possible workaround it to split the large note up into smaller ones.

Introduce a table-of-content note, from where you can fork to all parts. If you want to go to that extend, you can introduce note links as well at the end of each note to jump directly to the next one.

Should this be necessary ? Of course not !

Is it necessary ? Give it a try. I think it is even better practice to keep things rather short in a note taking app. If a writing attack comes over you, switch to a word processor, or even a full writing tool (Ulysses and Scrivener crosses my mind).

[Okonomiyaki 9]

Maybe I’m not being careful enough opening up only 1 note on any one device at a time but I get this error still at least once a day. It’s infuriating. The only thing that really needs to be fixed in my mind.

[PinkElephant 8,103]

How stable is your internet connection ?

By this I mean all aspects: Using WiFi or Ethernet ? How good is the link from the ISP ? Does it happen on mobile as well ? Any VPN or other privacy gadget that may interfere ?

If you know to be on a weak, intermittent internet (like in my case when I am on the train) the best method is to go offline, work on local data and sync only when on a stable connection.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

Internet connection is fine. Working from home so definitely no intermittent connection issues. I did find this response from gazumped:

which basically talks about the same thing you are i.e. internet connection problems.

Admittedly I'm only getting duplicate notes that I edit on different devices. I've got some notes that I edit only on one device and I never get duplication issues with those notes.

[PinkElephant 8,103]

Thanks for the answer. This means the prior edit on one device had not yet reached the server when you started duplicating the same note on another device. This leads to EN not knowing which version to keep - and it starts to produce security copies.

Try to avoid this situation - and the duplicates should be solved.

If not, contact support from a device where duplicates showed after editing. Attach the activity log.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

Makes sense. I guess simply closing Evernote doesn't guarantee syncing issues don't creep up. I had a note pop up after 24 hours, most likely after turning on a device I turned off without the sync having been sent.

[PinkElephant 8,103]

Correct - when you close the app it will stop syncing. The next changes on another client will modify the prior version, which in turn doesn’t match the version that is later synced from the first device.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

Merci.

[SSPOZ 1]

@PinkElephant Thanks so much for your explanation:

"Problem with EN: It treats the whole note (generally speaking) as one big container. It is not segmented down, like Google or MS Office do, just to name two apps that apply this granular design. EN could solve the problem - but they would have to completely change the fundamental design of the notes. Currently each note is sort of a web page, based on HTML. This would not work any longer"

It was driving me nuts trying to figure out why no other platform has this problem. I'm looking forward to seeing what EN does to improve sync as they stated in their plans for 2022. Just knowing the reason for the problem puts the mind a bit more at ease, so thanks once again.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

I noticed that Evernote now saves "continuously". Has this issue finally been solved? Has anyone experienced duplicate notes lately?

[bwydoogh 71]

1 hour ago, Okonomiyaki said:

I noticed that Evernote now saves "continuously". Has this issue finally been solved? Has anyone experienced duplicate notes lately?

What do you mean? Open a note on mobile AND using desktop client and might still get duplicate notes -> the sync does not work in the same (smooth!) way as other apps  do (f.e. Obsidian (Sync) and Apple Notes). Screenshot from a test I did 5 minutes ago.

[PinkElephant 8,103]

No, sync still works they way I described above, and yes, this means it work NOT as in many other notes apps,

If you want to avoid duplicates nearly completely, keeping in mind how syncing works can help. I encounter duplicates, but only very rarely (say once every 2 months).

„Saving“ and „Syncing“ is not the same with EN. EN has announced they are working on a better syncing, but up to now AFAIK it has not been released.

[snew4 40]

I'm seeing duplicate notes. It's a bug. I can't find the web page to report it. (Are personal accounts no longer allowed to submit?)

I'm only using the app on my laptop. No other device is active. I have EN on my Android phone, but didn't use my phone during this period. This is not a sync issue.

Last week, or so, it's cropped up a couple of times. As I'm creating a note a duplicate shows up. I just delete the one duplicate.

This morning I created a new note that had a table and entered data into three cells then went on to some other notes. I did not touch the original and 20 minutes later got the error message that duplicate notes were found. The original now had three duplicates. Duplicate #1 had no cells filled in. Duplicate #2 had one cell filled in. Duplicate #3 had two cells filled in. Again, I was not notified of the duplicates as I was editing the original. All looked OK. Later, the duplicates appeared.

[Boot17 1,449]

3 hours ago, snew4 said:

Are personal accounts

By personal, do you mean the actual Personal subscription or the Free (personal-to-you) plan. (https://evernote.com/compare-plans)

For Personal and above: https://evernote.com/contact

Similar to you, I had two duplicates hit me yesterday and I only had the one note open on Desktop and I had just barely created it too. (Within 5 minutes of creating the note and editing it a couple of times.) The note wasn't open in another window of it's own or anything either.

[agsteele 2,946]

This may or may note be a specific answer... The annual rolling maintenance process is underway at the moment.  It is possible that syncs are interrupted during this process and that might cause double syncs etc.

So as well as the continuing note duplication issues that are reported there is this additional factor which might also contribute just now. From 31 October 2022...

[GrayFoxZ 0]

First of all, Evernote has served me well for years. It's a shame I haven't showed up here earlier just to say thanks for an incredible UI experience, and now only showing up to find a answer that urgently needs to be addressed.

  

On 10/31/2022 at 2:37 AM, Okonomiyaki said:

I noticed that Evernote now saves "continuously". Has this issue finally been solved? Has anyone experienced duplicate notes lately?

  

On 6/20/2022 at 11:23 AM, Okonomiyaki said:

Maybe I’m not being careful enough opening up only 1 note on any one device at a time but I get this error still at least once a day. It’s infuriating. The only thing that really needs to be fixed in my mind.

I use EN daily, over the last two weeks it's been guaranteed, not only once a day, but literally everytime I type in new content that I'll get like 4 duplicates to the note where I'm adding content to. Infuriating indeed. I tried closing apps on other devices than my desktop (perhaps, still updating in background?), I tried signing out of app and deleting all data. If the only workaround is "being careful about new data input with sensitivity to the way syncing uploads" or splitting up notes, I won't say that I'll find somewhere else, but the entire team needs to be on deck for a update this week to fix this issue. I hadn't the problem only a update or two ago, so just rollback whatever changes have been made. I'm willing to try out some suggestions. Thanks.

[GrayFoxZ 0]

Okay, so I sorta answered my own question for a workaround...rollback:
https://evernote.en.uptodown.com/windows/versions
 

I haven't tested it out yet, I only just installed the previous version, however, I'm almost sure this will solve the issue for now.
^this link is better than the "Legacy" app version which is like some super old option, when I was only trying to go back to something recent to avoid a new bug.

umm, Evernote team it's all good & we are all still friends, right, right? ahaha... *tense Himeko blush*
 

let's see if we can get the real problem solved anyways though, all the latest updates have progressively looked cooler & I would like to be able to use them. Thanks again.

[GrayFoxZ 0]

UPDATE*:

Since I rollbacked to a earlier version of Evernote (July 2022), I have not had the issue of duplicate notes at all.
The issue has nothing to do with "the way EN functions fundamentally on the backend with the servers",
and is confirmed to be some bug that is lingering on one of the updated versions of the windows desktop app.

I hope it's gets kinked out soon, so I can keep up with the newer versions too.

Thanks Evernote support team!

[Boot17 1,449]

57 minutes ago, GrayFoxZ said:

Since I rollbacked to a earlier version of Evernote (July 2022), I have not had the issue of duplicate notes at all.
The issue has nothing to do with "the way EN functions fundamentally on the backend with the servers",
and is confirmed to be some bug that is lingering on one of the updated versions of the windows desktop app.

I dunno... I'm not convinced.

You rolled back to a version from July 2022 and are convinced that this was only a problem introduced since then (did I read that right?), yet the OP's post dates back to January and there are numerous other threads that pre-date July 2022 also.

And this problem predates version 10 too, although it seems like there are more complaints of it since Version 10 was introduced. (The clients definitely have to play some part in the syncing.)

Just check the results in this search out for proof of that: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Adiscussion.evernote.com+duplicate+note

So definitely strikes me as both a client side and a backend sync issue. Also hence the reason they had publicly announced back in January 2022 that they are planning to "complete their multi-year journey" to a more modern syncing architecture.

[GrayFoxZ 0]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:03 AM, Boot17 said:

I dunno... I'm not convinced.

You rolled back to a version from July 2022 and are convinced that this was only a problem introduced since then (did I read that right?), yet the OP's post dates back to January and there are numerous other threads that pre-date July 2022 also.

And this problem predates version 10 too, although it seems like there are more complaints of it since Version 10 was introduced. (The clients definitely have to play some part in the syncing.)

Just check the results in this search out for proof of that: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Adiscussion.evernote.com+duplicate+note

So definitely strikes me as both a client side and a backend sync issue. Also hence the reason they had publicly announced back in January 2022 that they are planning to "complete their multi-year journey" to a more modern syncing architecture.

I'm only speaking from my personal experience.

I read about others posting about the issue saying, "happens about once every other month".
I can definitely see that being a "backend sync" issue.
What I was posting about was closer to 10 times everyday i.e. everytime I'd add anything new to any of my notes,
which seems different than what most reports are about.
 

The rollback fixed the more severe issue that only started happening recently to me on the newer versions of the app.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

If this isn't addressed within the next year, I'm out. At the very least implement a comparison feature to show what the difference between the notes is. I can't trust my notes right now. I don't want to have to remember what I edited and when. It's happening to me every day right now and I'm not editing from multiple devices! Sorry but this is the foundation of note taking and quite frankly it's pathetic. This is literally the only application that I've ever used that has done this.

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,958]

10 hours ago, Okonomiyaki said:

If this isn't addressed within the next year, I'm out. At the very least implement a comparison feature to show what the difference between the notes is. I can't trust my notes right now. I don't want to have to remember what I edited and when. It's happening to me every day right now and I'm not editing from multiple devices! Sorry but this is the foundation of note taking and quite frankly it's pathetic. This is literally the only application that I've ever used that has done this.

I would encourage you to report this to Evernote support, if possible (https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new). It's not happening to me, and it may or may not be widespread, but enough people experience it that it's clearly serious. They are working on a new sync methodology; hopefully that may fix this sort of thing.

[Okonomiyaki 9]

I submitted a ticket. Yes I heard they are working on this but it has been happening to me for literally years. From what I've seen, I'm not the only one. I can't stand it anymore. I love figuring out work arounds and hearing ways to make things work that don't quite work, (I don't have a problem with adapting) but this is just unusable. I have literally never been more angry with any application before than I am right now. Pretty irate... Totally over it.

[Prox2k 0]

same problem here, very annoying...

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,958]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:45 AM, Prox2k said:

same problem here, very annoying...

Hi, and welcome to the forums. Have you reported this to Evernote support, so they can see how widespread it is? https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/requests/new