Popular Post Stathis 98 Posted June 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hello everyone, I decided to spare the time to write this disappointment post. Let me note right here that the disappointments you will read in this post is just a small -but most recent- fraction of my 10 years awesome user experience with EN. I have been using Evernote for the past 10 years, maybe half of which are premium. Documents, thoughts, tutorials, web archives, book suggestions, recipes, code, everything I care about is on Evernote and I am still using and love Evernote Moleskine notebooks. Early this year and thanks to COVID (spare) time, I took the time to transition all my data from the cloud to my Synology NAS, firstly because I ended up paying >500$/year (excluding business) to cloud subscriptions but most importantly because I wanted to own my personal data and not pay rent for it. After a streak of subcription cancelling, I cancelled almost all -I am still left with Evernote and iCloud-. I will be cancelling iCloud too when I 've built the Photo workflow I want to. And.. last one standing: Evernote. After giving it a thought and despite the fact that Synology and OneNote both offer a seamless way to migrate notes from Evernote, I said "no". I will be keeping my Evernote subscription, despite the fact that my subscription cost almost doubled in my paid plan years. Why ? Because I got high value from Evernote and it was acceptable to have my data on the cloud but get instantaneous search, famous Evernote OCR etc. And then... v10 came along. Being a developer myself, I don't get judgemental on product changes. When my clients are going back and forth with features they themselves requested, how easy would it be to offer features that 225M users will love or at least find acceptable ? However, performance/productivity aspects are must-haves and there is no point keeping a productivity app that kills your productivity, and that brought me to: shall I cut the last man standing ? Before doing that, I thought let's share some of those reasons, maybe someone will pay attention: New version Performance/Productivity/Reduced Functionality issues. The new app is by far the worst transition I had in my 10 years using EN. It feels (and probably is) a rubbish web hybrid that builds to macOS app too. Don't get me wrong, the UI is great/clean, note composing tools are better than ever, but guys/ladies, creating a note, moving batch/1 note to another notebook are the essentials. Who cares about functionality #3475 when you don't deliver functionalities #1 and #2. Here are 6 reasons why it sucks + 1 inconvenience: When dragging document to Evernote icon, user needs to click on a notebook, wait up to 10 seconds so the import occurs When moving a note to another notebook, it may take up to 30 seconds to be able to select the desired notebook. There is a lock icon and notebooks are greyed out for up to 30 seconds ffs. See screenshot here. When in need to do a batch action for a lot of notes, maximum number of notes is 50 ! (Seriously, is this a joke ?). That's also why I believe the new version is a web hybrid built. Launching the new app in every client (macOS, iOS, web) takes up to 1 minute, when data is not in cache Both macOS, iOS apps "hung". They are stuck and either need up to 30 seconds to revive or they need to be quit. Truth be told, newest updates have limited this issue to a minimum, but yet existing occasions. Linking notes inside the app ! That functionality existed, can't say I was really happy, but at least it worked. Now if you link one note to another, it creates a link that only launches on web ! When searching, ⌘ A selects all notes (all=50 as explained in 1.3) instead of search text Cost commitment. That's why I cancelled Dropbox, they took me from 69 to 129 in 1 year. If not mistaken, I believe Evernote went from 39 to 59, which I find somewhat acceptable considering I am literally paying to accommodate the free user tier. The Moleskine partnership is really cool I have to say and I 'd love to see an update on that Palaeolithic API. EN's API is literally last decade. I attempted to use EN API, but the process is only intended for external vendors that need to integrate a product to EN. The documentation is so outdated and non-existing, that really makes me wonder how safe my data is on EN. Documentation does not include the plain simple cURL commands. Innovation Stopped. It seems like there is no innovation happening, especially after Phil took off. I get it, there is no way competing to notes.app when Apple is really investing in that, but I expect to see some new features in my note-taking app of choice. There is limited app updating (Scannable, Skitch, Penultimate) going on. Features and business strategies I would like to see in the future Performance/Productivity/Reduced functionality -> See issues above. After having composed this post, I tend to realise that all those issues might be related to my assumption that EN now uses a web hybrid. If my assumption is correct, we need native apps. Batch actions -> See 1.3. Why on earth would a functionality of that importance be removed ? I know, hybrid app, right ? Stable Pricing -> Either keep it same and offer more or reduce it and keep it as is. At the moment we are paying more and probably even more in the future for same functionality with performance decrease ! Where does this elevation stop ? Maybe reduce functionality for free users and offer paid ones the value/innovation their cost deserves ? Tagging AI -> Tag suggestions based on user use. For example, every month I import in EN a tax document and payment. How hard would that be to identify pdf pattern and recognise that there are 1000 similar notes with the same tags. Breath-taking iPad app -> Penultimate was great back when it was introduced, but nowadays seem somewhat outdated. iPadOS has brought numerous features on note-taking and there are apps on the App Store that do use those innovations. We need the Evernote iPad app to be as good as it deserves to be. Automations -> Not getting up to date with the environment has its cost: the environment will not update too. Automating note imports in EN should be part of the EN app, just like the EN email. I am not talking about Zapier stuff, but plain-simple automations. At least create a AppleScript dictionary we can use Tasks Management -> We got reminders that -tough truth- never reached an acceptable state of productive use. I literally remember 3 years ago, I needed to manually go to notes 1-1 and clear reminders to remove the clutter. Alright, that's 2 free hours from me to you @EverNote, a price I am happy to pay considering the productivity gain I had all those years. So, are you going to keep me productive or is this a farewell ? Best regards, Askaridis Stathis 23 6 1 Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted June 29, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted June 29, 2021 36 minutes ago, Stathis said: Alright, that's 2 free hours from me to you Hate to break it to you, but there's (mainly) only us users here... and while we feel (and share) your pain, there's nothing much other to do than wait for improvements. I saw the writing on the wall and opted not to 'upgrade' to v10, so am continuing to work happily in Evernote Windows 6.25, Android 8.13 and (occasionally) web 10.x - as far as I'm concerned, nothing is happening until those tools are ripped from my cold, dead devices. To get your message across to Evernote (which is an impressive summary, by the way), maybe send a link to this thread to Support as feedback? https://help.evernote.com/hc/requests/new https://twitter.com/evernotehelps 8 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Thank you @gazumped, I just did both 4 Link to comment
hanseric 152 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 6 hours ago, Stathis said: I decided to spare the time to write this disappointment post. Let me note right here that the disappointments you will read in this post is just a small -but most recent- fraction of my 10 years awesome user experience with EN. Nice summary! Thanks for taking the time and also sending it to EN on proper developer/support channels. Hopefully they hear you. I've been stumbling through the use of V10 for the few months and it's usable, but definitely slower than it used to be. I miss the speed with which I could move in v6 and sometimes I go back to Legacy 6.25 in Windows to get certain things done. My biggest gripe is probably the 50 note limit. That and the fact that mobile for Android appears to be in VERY bad shape, judging from the almost endless stream of very low reviews in the Play Store. It's so bad that I'm actually concerned for the future of Evernote. I've seen no indication from EN that they are even aware of the lambasting they are taking there from their customers, although I can't imagine they've not noticed. But there's no response from EN that I can see anywhere. Half of my time on EN is mobile and so I've turned off all autoupdates and am manually selecting 100+ apps to update, one at a time, in my Samsung Note 10+ just to avoid an update to Evernote. My patience on that point is getting thinner and thinner, I must admit. Evernote should communicate back to their userbase on their crappy mobile experience. The last meaningful video from management on mobile seems to be from a year ago. Meanwhile, check these reviews out... These are just from the last 24 hours and they are almost all one star, maybe 2. EN should start talking to their users about this or they are going to find themselves in a tight spot, IMO, and having a real tough time recovering from the negativity the mobile app is generating, at least on the Play Store. Also, I'd really like to get back to letting my phone upgrade itself for a change. 3 3 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hey @hanseric ! Thanks for sharing. The screenshot taken from the Google Play store is definitely something worths flagging. I had no idea the disappointment is that wide-spread, that's very interesting. Let me quote a sentence from the reviews you posted: "Ruined a normally working app". Exactly, I used to follow Phil anxiously to check out what new partnerships he might bring to the service, do you remember the Evernote store ? You could buy an iPad stylus, ScanSnap and a plethora of great partnership products. Now it's dead silence. Link to comment
Level 5* DTLow 5,736 Posted June 29, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted June 29, 2021 7 hours ago, Stathis said: And then... v10 came along. Another vote for the Evernote Legacy product The v10 product is a work-in-progress, but imho not ready for general use 1 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted June 29, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted June 29, 2021 This is IMHO a very reduced view: Web client: Better than before Desktop: Improving, I would rate it at appr. 80% of Legacy iOS client: Better than before (just the Watch App is still missing) Android client: This currently seems to be the weakest point in the setup - I can just follow what gets posted, since I don‘t use Android With home and Tasks 2 new features were added that did not exist in the legacy world. This is my view, a mixed picture with light and shadow. 1 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Great to have an opposing view, thank you@PinkElephant for joining our discussion. I believe your 80% is very optimistic. Regarding the web client, I can't really have say since I never used it ! I think power users will never use web client, except when they need to access EN from another computer. 3 Link to comment
eric99 978 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 1 hour ago, PinkElephant said: This is IMHO a very reduced view: Web client: Better than before Desktop: Improving, I would rate it at appr. 80% of Legacy iOS client: Better than before (just the Watch App is still missing) Android client: This currently seems to be the weakest point in the setup - I can just follow what gets posted, since I don‘t use Android With home and Tasks 2 new features were added that did not exist in the legacy world. This is my view, a mixed picture with light and shadow. I use the android app and have no real problems with it... 1 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted June 29, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted June 29, 2021 The experience is based on the individual use cases - so what for me is 80% will be 60% for somebody else, and maybe 90% for a third person. The web client is important for these users Linux users - the client is now in preparation, but up to now the web client is the only one working client. I use it on my Raspberry Pi - and it works on this little 60€ computers, a bit slow maybe, but it does the job. Especially useful because I save code snippets in EN. Using EN on a computer where you can’t install software - like on the job. As a references when troubleshooting - it allows a direct view on the data master on the server. Link to comment
shaddack 2 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 6/29/2021 at 9:15 PM, eric99 said: I use the android app and have no real problems with it... I use the Android app too and feature wise it is great. However, I find it slow and lagy. Something that I think got worse after the tasks feature was introduced. I like the task feature very much but I get the feeling that the app got slower after that was introduced. Link to comment
major4579 6 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 So I inadvertently updated Evernote, not realizing the major changes and SLOWNESS of ver 10. I just couldn't hack it, I don't have the patience for attempting to learn something new to be able to continue doing what I've been doing happily and efficiently for a long time now. Call it old age, or whatever (just an aside, I still prefer Windows 7 over 10 and don't get me started about Windows 11). So I uninstalled Evernote 10, and installed the legacy version (6.25.2.9198) and while it looked like my old Evernote, it was still slow.... I uninstalled that and installed ver 6.25.1.9091 (from file hippo). That's more like it. This is the version I was running previously - fast, responsive and does just what I want it to do. I will need to start preparing for when ver 6 will no longer work (mainly sync). Not sure what I can or will do, but I will not be paying for something that doesn't work for me. that's for sure. 3 Link to comment
bounce 74 Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 V10 on Mac uses 80% more resources than legacy here. Until that's drastically reduced I won't be able to make the jump to 10 as I'm using EN to reference things while other CPU/Demanding tasks are happening. Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 2, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 2, 2021 My EN v10 on my Mac „behaves“ pretty well. From threads in the forum I can see that if a high CPU load is detected, quitting the app (cmd q) and restarting most of the time stops the bleeding. Only closing it does not stop the runaway. This is not a real solution, but better than nothing. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 Update EN Support responded to my message pointing to this post, I was surprised to see that the support representative took the time and had the knowledge to argue many of points raised here. That was surprising because in my experience support agents -at least front line- have no idea what are you talking about and just ask for more information. Arnold was very professional answering without exposing the new version’s fail. He explained that most of those issues are indeed there and the reason is moving from legacy. He also acknowledged the links issue to be true and not expected behavior. If only dev team (or better dev architect for technology decision) were that good. Expanding on my complaints, I would like to just mention 2 new issues experienced lately. 1. Used iOS safari extension to import a pdf, when launched EN, one more note was pending sync also ! I waited literally 10 minutes for those 2 notes to sync, but they never made it to the server 2. Just got my 2nd dose vaccination, at the front office they requested a medical serial number. I launched EN as I do since 2011 to find my serial number. It took me 3 minutes to abort waiting and search it in my e-mails. The note where I keep all this relevant info was created in 2013 and never experienced 1 damn issue to get it. Enough is enough everyone, I am now starting to search for migration options despite the fact that my subscription period is right in the middle of the paid year. I plan to create migration options/review/feedback posts, please contact me if anyone wants to team up, split the workload. 8 Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 3, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Stathis said: I am now starting to search for migration options You might want to start in the Forums here - there are already quite a few 'alternatives' posts flying around. The only effective way, I suspect, to fully evaluate another provider will be - once you refine the list to a top few - to try one out. Link to comment
major4579 6 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Anyone have any idea how long legacy will be supported? I suspect that the answer is "until it's not! " I'm just trying to decide how urgent finding an alternative is right now. 2 Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 3, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, major4579 said: Anyone have any idea how long legacy will be supported? I suspect that the answer is "until it's not! " I'm just trying to decide how urgent finding an alternative is right now. Careful what questions you ask... the answer to what you actually wrote is already "it's no longer supported" - no more updates, no support apart from us dinosaurs here - though I'd think password issues and the like would still be handled... As to what I assume you meant - "how long can i still use Legacy" - I have no inside information here, but I'm assuming "indefinitely" applies - Evernote would have to do some pretty extensive reorganisation of their servers to cut off syncing for 'just' the people using Legacy versions, and since a lot of people are using the old and the new side by side, i'm not sure they actually could differentiate. The fact that I and a few others have had vaguely anxious emails asking why we're still using an older version suggests that take up from existing users hasn't been exactly overwhelming, so unless and until you see wildly enthusiastic reviews (that aren't undercover marketing staffers) I'd suggest you relax. You have plenty of company. I would hope that Evernote - if and when that sad deprecation day comes - would issue a warning with substantial notice; you should have 3-6 months to update or migrate. You might want to make sure you have a full current backup of your account handy just in case of disaster. Backupery is doing that for me painlessly on a daily basis. Me 'n my 55K notes are still happy on Evernote Windows 6.25 and Android 8.13 with no immediate plans to vacate the premises. 😎 4 Link to comment
major4579 6 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 you are correct, I worded that wrong. I should have asked how long will sync work between my PC with EN ver 6 and my Android devices. You kind of answered that, thanks. 1 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 3, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Personally I doubt they will really pull the plug. Legacy does not cost them anything. It will probably die of old age, because an OS does not support it or whatever. You probably want to switch much earlier because new features will not come to legacy. What could kill it would be a fundamental database redesign by EN. I don’t expect that (no inside knowledge). Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, gazumped said: Backupery is doing that for me painlessly on a daily basis. Sounds interesting, any references on that ? Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 3, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 3, 2021 35 minutes ago, Stathis said: Sounds interesting, any references on that ? No problem - Backupery is a subscription package that will back up your Windows Legacy Evernote account at a pre-determined interval, with an optional history level. I have a 30GB database and (currently) around 300 notebooks which would be a grind to backup as individual ENEX files so frequently. Backupery does that for me with no fuss every evening at around 7pm when you can - more or less - guarantee that the laptop is not being used. I keep a running history of 6 days' backups, and archive those away with a weekly system-level backup. (And yes, Paranoia is my middle name...) https://www.backupery.com/ 1 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 Thank you @gazumped ! 2 hours ago, gazumped said: And yes, Paranoia is my middle name... Depends on the content you are storing in Evernote. I keep all my personal archive in Evernote, including medical data, scans, tax info, e.g. To highlight the importance of Evernote, I once won a court just because I had captured a handwritten document in Evernote. Definitely not paranoia. That’s why I share complaints and thoughts, out data in Evernote is not just fiscal documents nor just contracts. It’s our whole life in there and it is very disappointing EN’s management consider it as just business 6 Link to comment
Sledr 8 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) On 6/29/2021 at 12:13 PM, hanseric said: Nice summary! Thanks for taking the time and also sending it to EN on proper developer/support channels. Hopefully they hear you. I've been stumbling through the use of V10 for the few months and it's usable, but definitely slower than it used to be. I miss the speed with which I could move in v6 and sometimes I go back to Legacy 6.25 in Windows to get certain things done. My biggest gripe is probably the 50 note limit. That and the fact that mobile for Android appears to be in VERY bad shape, judging from the almost endless stream of very low reviews in the Play Store. It's so bad that I'm actually concerned for the future of Evernote. I've seen no indication from EN that they are even aware of the lambasting they are taking there from their customers, although I can't imagine they've not noticed. But there's no response from EN that I can see anywhere. Half of my time on EN is mobile and so I've turned off all autoupdates and am manually selecting 100+ apps to update, one at a time, in my Samsung Note 10+ just to avoid an update to Evernote. My patience on that point is getting thinner and thinner, I must admit. Evernote should communicate back to their userbase on their crappy mobile experience. The last meaningful video from management on mobile seems to be from a year ago. Meanwhile, check these reviews out... These are just from the last 24 hours and they are almost all one star, maybe 2. EN should start talking to their users about this or they are going to find themselves in a tight spot, IMO, and having a real tough time recovering from the negativity the mobile app is generating, at least on the Play Store. Also, I'd really like to get back to letting my phone upgrade itself for a change. WOW!! Thank You for pointing out how bad the Playstore reviews are! OF COURSE WHY WOULDN'T THEY BE!!! This app isn't going to survive with reviews like that. The overall rating is down to 3.8. I don't consider trying new apps unless they are over 4.0 and typically need to be 4.3 or 4.4. I CANNOT BELIEVE a fantastic product like Evernote was allowed to be "updated" with no project plan. When I read the CEO's view that you just let the developers go without a plan - I KNEW THAT WAS BAD NEWS. BUT I HOPED someone would come in and rescue them. Since I upgraded to Android 11, I've seen quite a few apps who have gone downhill and have been abandoned, looks like EN is going to be another one. BUT GIVING UP ON THIS APP, is going to hurt ME A LOT MORE!! : ( FYI. I have not upgraded EN on my primary Android phone, a Samsung Note 10+, either. With a Note 10+ you can now specify specific apps, you do NOT want to get updated automatically. Pull up Evernote in Playstore. Click on the 3 dots in the upper right corner. The last option on the menu is: "Enable Auto Update". Uncheck the box beside "Enable Auto Update". It does work. I've had that setting in place for Evernote since last summer. All my apps get updated automatically except for the ones where "Enable Auto Update" is UNCHECKED. Edited July 3, 2021 by Sledr Added additional information. Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 3, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Your keyboard seems to have a defect. The capslock tends to stick when you hit it down too hard. Just go easier when typing. 1 3 1 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 Hello everyone, just wanted to let you know that I have started the migration testing among a variety of apps. You are welcome to dig in ! 1 Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 4, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 4, 2021 15 hours ago, Sledr said: FYI. I have not upgraded EN on my primary Android phone, a Samsung Note 10+, either. With a Note 10+ you can now specify specific apps, you do NOT want to get updated automatically. Pull up Evernote in Playstore. Click on the 3 dots in the upper right corner. The last option on the menu is: "Enable Auto Update". Uncheck the box beside "Enable Auto Update". It does work. I've had that setting in place for Evernote since last summer. All my apps get updated automatically except for the ones where "Enable Auto Update" is UNCHECKED. Actually, with any Android 'phone running the current Play Store app you can do the same. I had a Note 4, now an S7 and used the same setting. 15 hours ago, Sledr said: This app isn't going to survive with reviews like that. Not sure how many hundred million users Evernote has on Android, but I'd guess a fair few are still on older OS versions that aren't yet able to update to v10. If you are still on the older version, it works fine; and if you're willing to find the old APK and install from a third-party store, it is at least possible to step back from v10 to 8.13. I'm sure they're working on it, but Evernote have so many priorities at the moment that it'll take time. Link to comment
Brad Miller 4 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I am also a long-time Evernote user who has continued to use Evernote Legacy in Windows due to the issues with the new version. I can't recall another time when I was presented with a software "upgrade" which so many problems: Abundant bugs Loss of functionality --- They may have added something, but that is irrelevant if I can't use internal links properly. Loss of readability --- The UI may be "clean", but it is not eay to read and scan multiple notes. That, of course, is an opinion. But easy to read and scan is what I need, not a bunch of colored bubbles and large icons getting in the way. Slowness Excessive data use on Android. I'll have to see about backing out to the older app so I can once again control the frequency of the syncing. Thanks all --- Hoping for a better future with Evernote. 4 Link to comment
jffe 14 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Hi Stathis I totally sympathise with you and thought it would be worth sharing my Evernote history. Also, before I begin, a disclosure - I moved to the Apple world entirely about 10 years ago so I do not need a cross-platform note taking app. I first started using EN over 15 years ago (pre Phil Libin) and since then I have accumulated over 20,000 notes covering my personal and business life. I used EN to go paperless and for to dos/reminders. I became a premium subscriber when this was introduced and remain one. About 3 years ago I decided I didn't like v. 8 introduced under Chris O'Neill's watch and decided to move to Apple Notes for my paperless requirements and Reminders for to dos/reminders. Where I used to share documents out of EN for non Apple users, I commenced using OneDrive. I have retained EN for two reasons - tags (I made extensive use of tags for my business use of EN and couldn't import these into Notes) and the ability to change the creation date of notes (which Notes currently doesn't have). Since moving from EN to Notes, I have moved from being an evangelist for EN as a paperless tool to being one for Notes. With the changes coming to Notes with iOS 15 (tags in particular), Notes is just getting better. Also, Reminders is a better tool for me for to dos and reminders than Evernote was. So why do I prefer Notes to EN? I think the main reason is it incorporates a largely traditional file structure (i.e. you can go to 4 or so levels of sub folders). We have all been brought up using sub folders in personal computing and I believe this paradigm remains more user friendly and intuitive for most use cases than tags. That is not to say there is no role for tags - I have almost a thousand of them in EN for which I have a legitimate use. Personally, I think EN is fundamentally flawed in only offering two levels of folders (i.e. stacks and notebooks). Other than for reasons of sentimentality/tradition, I cannot see why EN doesn't replace the concept of stacks and notebooks with folders and with the option of multiple layers of sub-folders while retaining their rich legacy of tags. The other main reason I prefer Notes is its simplicity and its attractive UX. Unfortunately, to me at least, EN has become very complex and not very attractive. Putting it another way, in summary, I enjoy using Notes and I no longer enjoy using Evernote. BTW, does anyone know whether: 1. The creation date of Notes can be changed in iOS 15? 2. The Note import tool in iOS 15 will enable EN tags and associated tagged notes to be imported? If the answer to these questions is yes then with some degree of melancholy, I will be letting my Evernote subscription lapse. 1 1 Link to comment
rayjbrown 1 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 7/3/2021 at 9:26 PM, gazumped said: You might want to start in the Forums here - there are already quite a few 'alternatives' posts flying around. The only effective way, I suspect, to fully evaluate another provider will be - once you refine the list to a top few - to try one out. This Windows 10 desktop version of Evernote 10 is a shocker. So many of the features prior to upgrade have been wiped and it is now rendered to being the slowest piece of junk software of all the programs I use. There is no longer a manual option to sync or sync schedule options. It looks and feels as if it is trying to sync every time I touch the damn keyboard! It is so frustratingly useless I have no choice to migrate to something else. I'm considering OneNote at this stage. Unless Evernote gets a big roll back release out in the next week they will be going the way of the dinosaur. My other option is that I may have to go back to a twenty year old version of Lotus Notes and develop my own database. Link to comment
Level 5* DTLow 5,736 Posted July 11, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 7/8/2021 at 5:27 PM, jffe said: So why do I prefer Notes to EN? I think the main reason is it incorporates a largely traditional file structure (i.e. you can go to 4 or so levels of sub folders) Definitely, if you need a folder structure - Evernote is not the right product for you (no folders, we get two metadata fields; Notebooks, Tags) I'm surprised it took 15 years to discover this 🙂 Personally, Evernote has taught me the "traditional file structure" is an archaic relic; replaced with the much superior organization using tag methodology Apple Notes is a fine product, but lacks the organization features supported by Evernote I'm happy that tag support is being implemented with IOS 15 My primary concern with Apple Notes is having my data locked in I know with Evernote, it's easy to export the data and move to a different service I still use the Evernote Legacy product, but my choice for an Evernote alternative is Devonthink (Apple only) It imports Evernote data, including Notebooks, Tags and note attachment files Folder structure is supported Creation date can be edited (not clear why this is needed) 1 Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 11, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 11, 2021 2 hours ago, rayjbrown said: So many of the features prior to upgrade have been wiped Actually, a number have come back - which ones are you missing? 2 hours ago, rayjbrown said: It is so frustratingly useless I have no choice to migrate to something else. You could simply step back to the last public version http://cdn1.evernote.com/win6/public/Evernote_6.25.1.9091.exe (remembering to disable looking for updates in Tools > Options) Or use the update that's meant to run alongside v10 so you can use both (just not at the same time...) https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote 1 Link to comment
jffe 14 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 19 hours ago, DTLow said: Personally, Evernote has taught me the "traditional file structure" is an archaic relic; replaced with the much superior organization using tag methodology I assume you mean Evernote replaced the need for more than 2 layers of folders as EN does incorporate 2 - Stacks and Notebooks. Or do you only use 1 notebook thereby effectively using only tags for your organisational requirements? I have learned from my 15+ years of use of EN a combination of traditional file structure (ideally at least 4 levels) and tags is definitely the most efficient for me. Different use cases will vary the optimal extent of reliance on traditional file structure vs tags. I think this is consistent with a trend within note apps to offer both. Thank you for pointing out DEVONthink - it does look very good for a power user. Also I agree that the inability to export notes from Apple Notes to another note app is a serious deficiency - but one I am prepared to live with given my circumstances. Finally, having the ability to change the creation date is important for me in remaining paperless. That is, within reason, I like to “file” notes at or near the date I received them/they were originated. Link to comment
jffe 14 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 20 hours ago, DTLow said: I still use the Evernote Legacy product, but my choice for an Evernote alternative is Devonthink (Apple only) Also, it occurred to me the fact that one of EN’s most avid and supportive forum participants is still using the EN Legacy product and has arrived at a choice for an alternative should send shivers down the spines of EN management. 3 1 Link to comment
rayjbrown 1 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 19 hours ago, gazumped said: You could simply step back to the last public version... Thanks for the link to the Legacy App version. All good again thankfully. I get the impression that Evernote hired a cowboy in the change management space. If they had been following the proper ITIL procedures that V.10 would never have got off the ground let alone allowed to be released. - Thanks again - Ray (Australia) 1 Link to comment
McVitas 24 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Good summary. I have to agree and say that to me it seems that EverNote team really tries to PUSH ME AWAY from this platform! I have been using Evernote for several years and there have been so many problems and most of them never got addressed! - Desktop app is fine, but syncing usually does not happen even though I have it set to automatic or 5minutes! Result is that I write something on a PC, then go away and I DON'T HAVE IT in my phone if I forgot to manually click "synchronize"! - shortcut bar on top in Windows app is gone so I have to use the legacy version because I want shortcuts to be easily accessible - If I have something on my mind and I want to quickly type it, the notes are suddenly fking READ ONLY in the mobile app! Sometimes I manage to write one word and then keyboard disappears and I have to wait minute or so before I can edit! This has been happening for months on both Android and iOS and it doesn't look like anybody cares about such serious bug! - web client has a problem pasting images but I don't use it for some time already, so maybe it has changed, because I am not a premium subscriber (fortunately...) Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 58 minutes ago, McVitas said: I DON'T HAVE IT in my phone if I forgot to manually click "synchronize"! Never experienced such an issue. Maybe because of the free tier ? Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 12, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Syncing does not depend on the plan. My experience is that the downsync in some cases (not always) takes several minutes, I had one occasion with half an hour. This means the new content was on the client where I had created it, and on the server (visible in web client), but for a while did not sync to other clients. Usually a manual sync (available on mobile) solves the problem. This is one reason I favor a manual sync for the desktop clients as well. The problem is reported to EB support, they are working on it. Link to comment
Level 5* DTLow 5,736 Posted July 12, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 12, 2021 6 hours ago, jffe said: Or do you only use 1 notebook thereby effectively using only tags for your organisational requirements? Confirmed, I basically use 1 notebook; tags for organization I use notebooks for other purposes; private/sharing, online/local (Legacy), offline >>need for more than 2 layers of folders fwiw I use a layer for a collection of files via the note attachment feature This is in effect a folder >>... if ability to change the creation date ...I like to “file” notes at or near the date I received them/they were originated. I rarely adjust creation date, but I do use a subject date field Since Evernote no longer supports this field, I prefix the subject date to all note titles example; 2021-06-01 Receipt [Groceries] ... It's easy to adjust the date >>send shivers down the spines of EN management I think EN management are aware this technical switch will cause some user loss I received an email asking why I'm still using the Legacy product I replied that imho the v10 product is a work-in-progress, not ready for general use; there are some must-have features I need before considering a switch Link to comment
hozo1 0 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 went back to EN 7 .. 10 is a mess and the company is a mess. Evernote was predicated on the idea of being able to simply take notes, put them in folder for organization and never worry as you have them everywhere. not sure if its new management or typical functionality overload. Simpler is better and Evernote is chock full of crappy stuff like Microsoft. If anyone is listening at Evernote here is the user equation for user. 90% use 10% of the functionality. 10% use 90% of the functionality. Build software for the 90%. The only reason I am still user is the basic folder hierarchy is better than anything out there. Going to create Simple Note that basically mimics the EN origin lstratyey. Notes anywhere and everywhere you want them ... in a simple easy format. Revolutionary idea for a crowd, crappy software world. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 I found Bear to have the best organisation system. Only tags, infinite nesting (well tried up to 5). I just created a #Notebooks tag for the notebooks I used to have in Evernote and #Notebooks/My Notebook would be the tag for notes that existed in My Notebook notebook. In EN I used to do something similar to what @DTLow is doing: 2 Notebooks for personal use: Inbox; Archive and all others for sharing purposes. Bear also tackled that too, because they automatically create an Archive section for all archived notes. This is why I found Bear organisation far superior to any other note app I have tested. In addition to Notebooks, I used a manual tagging system that worked great: Nesting using dots, e.g. welcome; welcome.organize; welcome.organize.level_3 and so on. Then manually drag & drop to group them together. Overall, I had the same result since when assigning or searching for tag, the indentation system would filter the desired values thanks to the above convention. There is an article around that suggested this or similar system Here is a screenshot of how that looks like in Bear... Also great functionality, yet so simple, when there are 0 notes of a tag, tag gets deleted automatically. Another cool feature is the icons that they auto-populate if they find a keyword they find relevant or you can select your icon among a selection. 1 1 Link to comment
Marc-Andre 0 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Great post @Stathis I felt every sentences . Been an EV user since nearly the start. And I cannot express in words my deception. I just made the switch to Bear. Farewell EV! Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 13, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 13, 2021 If you now feel better, you did the right thing for yourself. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 The conclusion Sadly, elephant no longer exists in my dock. None of the apps I tested was a match to Evernote legacy, but at least their performance is acceptable. I ended up using DS Note, but I am also keeping Bear on the side as a markdown editor. The reasons why I ended up with DS Note are: UI/UX, functionality same as Evernote legacy I host my data Data source is not a single sqlite file backed up in iCloud Attachment search support Up to this point, the DS Note has numerous "special behaviours", which I ended up deciding that they are acceptable. The only thing that makes me really uncomfortable using DS Note is not having the ability to migrate from it. I hope I will never need it, otherwise I am pretty much screwed as there is not tool migrating from DS Note Some alternatives I also tried are: Joplin -- I did not manage to install Joplin server on Docker and iOS app is ***** Clover -- Seems promising, it is similar to Notion. Current iOS app is available only through Testflight and the iPad version -boy oh boy- is amazing Obsidian md -- Looks great, it is just not for me Apple Notes -- Same as Bear, I don't want my data to be available only through iCloud. Also not accessible from web browser. I also tested the above apps in iPad. Apple Notes is of course the big winner here, where DS Note gets constant crashes whenever the Apple Pencil touches the surface. Already reported that as an issue, hope the will be able to fix it. Bear, once again, delivers Overall, I found Bear the best alternative, with the markdown being a versatile tool able to serve content wherever needed. The minute they offer an independent data source that is not sqlite, I am all in. So to answer to my initial question Quote Is this a farewell ? - Yes it is Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 28, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Good if DS Note serves your use cases. Just for everybody who asks himself what this DS Note means: It is the Note tool integrated into the Synology NAS operating system. On the Synology it is called Note Station, DS Note are the clients. Which means: You need a Synology NAS to run it, you need to manage that NAS, and if you need access from outside of your home network, you have to make the content available on the internet without corrupting your home network security at the same time. The software itself is free, but you need to get the NAS, which will cost a triple digit amount in $/€/£, plus the hard drives. It does not compare to EN, especially the OCR and search capabilities must be build around it using other apps for the Synology. And even then is is pretty short of functions beyond the basics. Why can I tell ? I run 2 Synologies and have tested Note Station. I am still here ... 2 Link to comment
jffe 14 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Thanks for letting us know. I’ve downloaded the latest public beta versions of Apple’s various operating systems and am very happy with the addition of tags to Notes. For me, this combined with the ability to have multiple levels of folders makes Notes better than EN in this most important area of note structure. The lack of ability to export from Notes remains a slight concern - largely mitigated by the fact Apple is the size that it is. Also, I would like Notes to offer the ability to change the creation date - until they offer this, I will continue to use EN to change dates. Given the excellence of the Apple ecosystem and the company’s focus on continual improvement I don’t see myself looking for an alternative note platform any time soon. Link to comment
Level 5* DTLow 5,736 Posted July 29, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted July 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, jffe said: (tags) For me, this combined with the ability to have multiple levels of folders makes Notes better than EN in this most important area of note structure. I'm a tagger and see this as an important addition to Apple Notes Evernote supports tags and a hierarchy for unlimited levels No folder support, but Evernote supports Stacks/Notebooks, for 2 levels Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 6 hours ago, PinkElephant said: Good if DS Note serves your use cases. Just for everybody who asks himself what this DS Note means: It is the Note tool integrated into the Synology NAS operating system. On the Synology it is called Note Station, DS Note are the clients. Which means: You need a Synology NAS to run it, you need to manage that NAS, and if you need access from outside of your home network, you have to make the content available on the internet without corrupting your home network security at the same time. The software itself is free, but you need to get the NAS, which will cost a triple digit amount in $/€/£, plus the hard drives. It does not compare to EN, especially the OCR and search capabilities must be build around it using other apps for the Synology. And even then is is pretty short of functions beyond the basics. Why can I tell ? I run 2 Synologies and have tested Note Station. I am still here ... Well said. Imagine the performance I got to decide making such a downgrade. 6 hours ago, PinkElephant said: the OCR and search capabilities must be build around it using other apps for the Synology I am not sure whether it supports OCR or just extracting data from digital pdf, but it works without any further workarounds. Just a setting. 6 hours ago, PinkElephant said: It does not compare to EN In which sense ? A simple notebook with a pen and some stickers could compare if fits the purpose. From my POV, DS Note is an EN copycat and its performance is rapid fast in contrast to EN. Yes, it is because it is local, but in my case 99% of the use is local. There is also extra functionality, like supporting nested tags (not just grouping) and note encryption where EN fails to compare. Yes, EN search is phenomenal and yes it DS Note needs hardware and the app is previous decade. Does it compare to EN ? Yes, if you got a Synology NAS and for me it wins. 1 Link to comment
stocky2605 401 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 On 7/3/2021 at 12:19 PM, Stathis said: Update 1. Used iOS safari extension to import a pdf, when launched EN, one more note was pending sync also ! I waited literally 10 minutes for those 2 notes to sync, but they never made it to the server please ensure you‘re really importing / sending the PDF to Evernote - in the Share menu there is „options“, usually it points to „automatic“ (file type detection), I always change it to the real file type, in your case „PDF“ - then the PDF find it‘s way to EN quickly (while using „automatic“ it somehow tries to download somewhat to somewhere) Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just now, stocky2605 said: please ensure you‘re really importing / sending the PDF to Evernote - in the Share menu there is „options“, usually it points to „automatic“ (file type detection), I always change it to the real file type, in your case „PDF“ - then the PDF find it‘s way to EN quickly (while using „automatic“ it somehow tries to download somewhat to somewhere) The files imported appeared the next day ! Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted July 30, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Better late than never 😉 Link to comment
alba63 5 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Me too I was a bit shocked when I first opened the new iPad version of Evernote. All in all, too much experimentation, not clear and simple enough, and NO, I do not want to change my start page. The new app is sloooow, cluttered view etc. Apple Notes gets better every year, but is not quite there yet (no web clipper in particular), but it is streamlined, intuitive, simple. All which Evernote is less and less. The art is not to add plenty of new features, but to add useful features that are simple to use. Which is why I never really started to use Notion - you have to have a PhD to understand it. Already I put most of my stuff in Apple notes, because it is so simple and easy to usw. & totally integrated into the Apple Ecosystem. Which Evernote is not. The only thing I really got used to is the WebClipper which alone has been a reason to stay with EN for years now. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 49 minutes ago, alba63 said: Notion - you have to have a PhD to understand it. 😂 Link to comment
RicD 10 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 On 6/29/2021 at 12:27 PM, Stathis said: Hey @hanseric ! Thanks for sharing. The screenshot taken from the Google Play store is definitely something worths flagging. I had no idea the disappointment is that wide-spread, that's very interesting. Let me quote a sentence from the reviews you posted: "Ruined a normally working app". Exactly, I used to follow Phil anxiously to check out what new partnerships he might bring to the service, do you remember the Evernote store ? You could buy an iPad stylus, ScanSnap and a plethora of great partnership products. Now it's dead silence. Please allow me a correction where you stated "...Exactly, I used to follow Phil anxiously to check out what new partnerships..." Truly it should read "...used to eagerly follow Phil..." Why eager, return to your Latin class, anxious is a negative as in fear and dread, something scary for the person, coming from the Latin word Angere meaning "to choke and strangle." Thus the correct word would be eager, a positive looking forward to something, whereas anxious is a negative as in dread, fear, trepidation, and the like. True, many folks use anxious not eager, my thinking is it is what they hear other people's incorrect use of anxious. Most of all folks rarely if ever use a dictionary for word meanings and etymology. It is my hope the aforementioned explanation helps you and others as well. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share Posted December 26, 2021 Following my Is this a farewell ? and Not a farewell after all, I would like to share my newest dislikes about the elephant, hoping an EN engineer or someone who give a heckle pays attention. The app sucks, I was in the airport the other day, having all my flight related documents in my EN app and once again Evernote hung me. I had enabled offline mode for my literally 3 notes notebook and the whole thing stuck. It stuck that bad, that I had to open EN in the browser to showcase my travel documents. 3 notes notebook. iPadOS just sucks, buttons are not visible, shortcuts are very limited and so many other issues I have already enlisted in the blog posts above. Talking about EN hanging you dry, I have also experienced dozens of times, being in a meeting and my note getting a circle of death, not letting me edit my note. I took the time to report it and after EN support requested logs and videos and e-mails etc, they replied that they are aware of the issue and they are currently fixing it. Well, if you are aware of the issue, why waste my time asking for more information ? As explained in the Not a farewell after all, I tried several other apps but found none providing the features I was looking for. So, how do you call this situation where you have no other option but to stick and pay a ***** service that hangs you dry ? Captivity This is what describes my user experience with EN. What’s most disturbing of all, is the fact that they are now pushing to get premium users to the higher paying tier, by limiting ***** functionality and adding this kind of distractions I am already paying ffs That’s just another example of EN delivering freemium user experience to premium users. 10 years premium by the way. I have started searching again for a candidate to transition to, hopefully this time I won’t repeat the same mistake, transitioning before using it. The 3 candidates that are now on the top of my list are all great apps and somehow managed to miss them in my previous and first attempt Nimbus Amplenote Craft I am currently researching those 3 apps in detail and I will come back with a report. Thankfully by the time I do the report, Craft will have introduced tags, a functionality currently under construction. If anyone has transitioned to Amplenote, it would be very helpful if provided some feedback Merry Christmas everyone and a Happy New Year 2 Link to comment
Level 5* DTLow 5,736 Posted December 26, 2021 Level 5* Share Posted December 26, 2021 20 minutes ago, Stathis said: Following my Is this a farewell ? and Not a farewell after all, I would like to share my newest dislikes about the elephant, No need to create new topics; just clutters the forum I merged your discussions 1 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted December 30, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted December 30, 2021 @Stathis Offline content: Most likely it had not downloaded before you went offline. Downloading takes a while on iOS, and it stops once the app is moved to the background. This is due to iOS restrictions, not an EN fault. There are descriptions in the forum on how to download offline content properly. Before leaving check if the download has completed. BTW airports are usually no offline areas - they have free wifi in most cases. But if the captive screen has not been answered (we are all in a hurry, right ?) the device will be logged into the wifi, but without an internet connection. This is not offline (!), even if there is no internet, and will AFAIK prevent the offline function to kick in. To make sure you are in offline mode switch the device to flight mode - then you are really using the offline data. Pricing: The old price for Premium stayed unchanged for the Personal plan, and the features were extended. You can name a single feature that was taken away to prove me wrong. Professional has additional features for more money - if you need them, buy them, if you don't why do you bother ? Can't stand the idea your nasty neighbour (yes, the one with the larger house, the fancier car and the bigger grill) now has EN Professional as well, and you stuck on Personal ? Link to comment
RJLUK 307 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 6 hours ago, PinkElephant said: @Stathis Can't stand the idea your nasty neighbour (yes, the one with the larger house, the fancier car and the bigger grill) now has EN Professional as well, and you stuck on Personal ? Shame on you. Uncalled for and frankly childish bordering on bulling. I think you need to keep your sarcasm out of this forum - just because a paid users views appear to conflict with those of a long term EN acolyte it does not mean they are invalid. Leave @Stathis be. I have a large house.... a Jag sports car ( does that count as fancy?) - it is too cold in England for a grill of any size and I have EN professional.......... - but if EN does not get its act together with regards to many things and other apps continue to develop, for example Obsidian, Logseq, Hypernote ( all of which have graph view and bidirectional linking? when will EN catch up with the real world) ,Craft and even ,dare I say it, Apple Notes ( now with Tags) I will not renew. Like it or not EN on a high speed top spec Mac IS SLOW, DOES. crash for no reason several times a day, HAS no manual sort capability and no Markdown export. The search within Images and Pdfs is simply not as good as it was and I find myself feeling unsure about actually relying on it so much so I now use it as a rather expensive digital filing cabinet using Bear Notes,Drafts and Apple notes for daily, weekly note management In the new year EN management has a choice- listen to their customers OR die. 2021 has been a disaster for them IMHO. The elephant may be in the corner of the room but , like it or not, many are considering leaving that particular room and frankly nobody actually cares wether you agree or not. 2 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 It's ok @RobertJLee, I am more than happy to take this, it's just proving my point even more. 7 hours ago, PinkElephant said: Offline content: Most likely it had not downloaded before you went offline. Downloading takes a while on iOS, and it stops once the app is moved to the background. This is due to iOS restrictions, not an EN fault. Sorry @PinkElephant, but it wasn't an iOS, nor internet connection thing. It's easy to blame others when your home is full of garbage. Downloaded 1 season (12 episodes 45' each) in Netflix in 20 seconds. Evernote was still grasping to download 3 notes of a total size <0,5mb. I am fully aware of the app states iOS has, the app was not in the background nor inactive. I was looking it at it for more than 5 minutes to allow me access my note. Wasn't syncing 3 notes, wasn't allowing me to abort it, could not view the note in the app 7 hours ago, PinkElephant said: Pricing: The old price for Premium stayed unchanged for the Personal plan, and the features were extended. You can name a single feature that was taken away to prove me wrong. Professional has additional features for more money - if you need them, buy them, if you don't why do you bother ? Can't stand the idea your nasty neighbour (yes, the one with the larger house, the fancier car and the bigger grill) now has EN Professional as well, and you stuck on Personal ? I don't care about the price, I am already the neighbour that has everything better than you. The price has changed in the past, but that's not relevant. What is relevant though is that 'Evernote Personal' is more expensive than Jira, Notion, Slack, Google and Microsoft Office 365, and the user experience a premium user gets is forcing to upgrade premium tier. Why don't they add some ads as well in the premium membership ? Why upgrade if I don't need the tier's offerings ? To be able to connect more than 1 Google Calendar; have more than 1 filtered notes card in the ***** dashboard and finally don't get the ridiculous badge. How confident can one be when the company that keeps your external brain is begging to get more money and also losing a gigantic flow of users ? The thing is @PinkElephant , leaving everything aside, one would expect a note taking app is good for note taking. For EN, that's not the case: You are taking notes for a meeting ? Evernote will lock your note while you are taking important notes in your NOTE APP. Hey important people in the meeting, could you please wait a minute until Evernote is back. You need to access a note in airport ? Sorry mate, you might not get access. Would be best if you kept your documents elsewhere as well. You need to clip a web page ? Doesn't work; What's your EN version ? What's your web clipper version ? Did you try uninstalling and reinstalling ? Could you send us troubleshooting log The conclusion for me is that Evernote can no longer be a note taking app, basically because a note taking app needs to be offline first. From what I 've read, this is also the only reason why users leave Notion. And this is why, if you look around, every respectful note taking / paperless expert is not recommending Evernote for anything but saving documents/receipts; a document dump. 1 Link to comment
RJLUK 307 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, Stathis said: And this is why, if you look around, every respectful note taking / paperless expert is not recommending Evernote for anything but saving documents/receipts; a document dump. Nail...head🥊 1 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted December 30, 2021 Level 5 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Personally I have no access problems, not while traveling, not while in meetings or in other situations. No locking either, except for brief moments (let it be 10sec) with a new, freshly synced note from another device, right after startup of the app. If I expect the connection to be jumpy (like in the train), I go to flight mode and use the offline database. With public WiFi I have described the situation when you are connected, but not online. Before struggling with the landing pages, I switch WiFi off and use mobile data instead. Your experience does not match mine. That is ok, this is why we can exchange ideas here. There are experts on everything - I doubt that you can decide who is „respectful“ by watching what they recommend. If your use cases do not match the profile of app A, try B, C or E. It is good there is a choice. Link to comment
Dave Green 207 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 On 12/26/2021 at 12:59 PM, Stathis said: I have started searching again for a candidate to transition to, hopefully this time I won’t repeat the same mistake, transitioning before using it. The 3 candidates that are now on the top of my list are all great apps and somehow managed to miss them in my previous and first attempt Nimbus Amplenote Craft I am currently researching those 3 apps in detail and I will come back with a report. Thankfully by the time I do the report, Craft will have introduced tags, a functionality currently under construction. The website NoteApps.info is an excellent tool for looking at the various alternatives to look at important dimensions. 2 1 Link to comment
eric99 978 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 On 1/1/2022 at 3:01 AM, Dave Green said: The website NoteApps.info is an excellent tool for looking at the various alternatives to look at important dimensions. I believe I saw some complaints on this forum about limited Nimbus Export. If I would consider to look for alternatives, the first feature I would investigate (and test! ) is export. Link to comment
JimmyShoes 0 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 On 6/29/2021 at 2:11 AM, Stathis said: Hello everyone, I decided to spare the time to write this disappointment post. Let me note right here that the disappointments you will read in this post is just a small -but most recent- fraction of my 10 years awesome user experience with EN. I have been using Evernote for the past 10 years, maybe half of which are premium. Documents, thoughts, tutorials, web archives, book suggestions, recipes, code, everything I care about is on Evernote and I am still using and love Evernote Moleskine notebooks. Early this year and thanks to COVID (spare) time, I took the time to transition all my data from the cloud to my Synology NAS, firstly because I ended up paying >500$/year (excluding business) to cloud subscriptions but most importantly because I wanted to own my personal data and not pay rent for it. After a streak of subcription cancelling, I cancelled almost all -I am still left with Evernote and iCloud-. I will be cancelling iCloud too when I 've built the Photo workflow I want to. And.. last one standing: Evernote. After giving it a thought and despite the fact that Synology and OneNote both offer a seamless way to migrate notes from Evernote, I said "no". I will be keeping my Evernote subscription, despite the fact that my subscription cost almost doubled in my paid plan years. Why ? Because I got high value from Evernote and it was acceptable to have my data on the cloud but get instantaneous search, famous Evernote OCR etc. And then... v10 came along. Being a developer myself, I don't get judgemental on product changes. When my clients are going back and forth with features they themselves requested, how easy would it be to offer features that 225M users will love or at least find acceptable ? However, performance/productivity aspects are must-haves and there is no point keeping a productivity app that kills your productivity, and that brought me to: shall I cut the last man standing ? Before doing that, I thought let's share some of those reasons, maybe someone will pay attention: New version Performance/Productivity/Reduced Functionality issues. The new app is by far the worst transition I had in my 10 years using EN. It feels (and probably is) a rubbish web hybrid that builds to macOS app too. Don't get me wrong, the UI is great/clean, note composing tools are better than ever, but guys/ladies, creating a note, moving batch/1 note to another notebook are the essentials. Who cares about functionality #3475 when you don't deliver functionalities #1 and #2. Here are 6 reasons why it sucks + 1 inconvenience: When dragging document to Evernote icon, user needs to click on a notebook, wait up to 10 seconds so the import occurs When moving a note to another notebook, it may take up to 30 seconds to be able to select the desired notebook. There is a lock icon and notebooks are greyed out for up to 30 seconds ffs. See screenshot here. When in need to do a batch action for a lot of notes, maximum number of notes is 50 ! (Seriously, is this a joke ?). That's also why I believe the new version is a web hybrid built. Launching the new app in every client (macOS, iOS, web) takes up to 1 minute, when data is not in cache Both macOS, iOS apps "hung". They are stuck and either need up to 30 seconds to revive or they need to be quit. Truth be told, newest updates have limited this issue to a minimum, but yet existing occasions. Linking notes inside the app ! That functionality existed, can't say I was really happy, but at least it worked. Now if you link one note to another, it creates a link that only launches on web ! When searching, ⌘ A selects all notes (all=50 as explained in 1.3) instead of search text Cost commitment. That's why I cancelled Dropbox, they took me from 69 to 129 in 1 year. If not mistaken, I believe Evernote went from 39 to 59, which I find somewhat acceptable considering I am literally paying to accommodate the free user tier. The Moleskine partnership is really cool I have to say and I 'd love to see an update on that Palaeolithic API. EN's API is literally last decade. I attempted to use EN API, but the process is only intended for external vendors that need to integrate a product to EN. The documentation is so outdated and non-existing, that really makes me wonder how safe my data is on EN. Documentation does not include the plain simple cURL commands. Innovation Stopped. It seems like there is no innovation happening, especially after Phil took off. I get it, there is no way competing to notes.app when Apple is really investing in that, but I expect to see some new features in my note-taking app of choice. There is limited app updating (Scannable, Skitch, Penultimate) going on. Features and business strategies I would like to see in the future Performance/Productivity/Reduced functionality -> See issues above. After having composed this post, I tend to realise that all those issues might be related to my assumption that EN now uses a web hybrid. If my assumption is correct, we need native apps. Batch actions -> See 1.3. Why on earth would a functionality of that importance be removed ? I know, hybrid app, right ? Stable Pricing -> Either keep it same and offer more or reduce it and keep it as is. At the moment we are paying more and probably even more in the future for same functionality with performance decrease ! Where does this elevation stop ? Maybe reduce functionality for free users and offer paid ones the value/innovation their cost deserves ? Tagging AI -> Tag suggestions based on user use. For example, every month I import in EN a tax document and payment. How hard would that be to identify pdf pattern and recognise that there are 1000 similar notes with the same tags. Breath-taking iPad app -> Penultimate was great back when it was introduced, but nowadays seem somewhat outdated. iPadOS has brought numerous features on note-taking and there are apps on the App Store that do use those innovations. We need the Evernote iPad app to be as good as it deserves to be. Automations -> Not getting up to date with the environment has its cost: the environment will not update too. Automating note imports in EN should be part of the EN app, just like the EN email. I am not talking about Zapier stuff, but plain-simple automations. At least create a AppleScript dictionary we can use Tasks Management -> We got reminders that -tough truth- never reached an acceptable state of productive use. I literally remember 3 years ago, I needed to manually go to notes 1-1 and clear reminders to remove the clutter. Alright, that's 2 free hours from me to you @EverNote, a price I am happy to pay considering the productivity gain I had all those years. So, are you going to keep me productive or is this a farewell ? Best regards, Askaridis Stathis This is a great post. It goes into much more back end detail than I ever could, but mirrors my disappointment with the changes. Essentially I'm still running Legacy app as long as I can. It's many times faster, and it searches while I type, has never (or very rarely) ever has a sync issue. All of which, have gone out the window with the new version. The main reason I have used Evernote for 10 years is I could very quickly, browse, search, view and switch between notes very quickly. Since going to the new version sync collisions are plentiful and speed makes it unusable. I finally went back to the Legacy edition. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 I finally finished transitioning from EN. The mistake I did last time was I was looking for 1 app that covers my needs in whole and initiated the transition without a plan. A. My Plan v2.0 1. Synology Note Station Only for document dumps, such as: Invoices Receipts Scans Bills Payments Supports OCR Plays well within the Synology ecosystem App issues are not important using it solely as a document dump Generally speaking, document dumps are 'cold' data, meaning it is not crucial for me to have an outstanding performance for getting access to those documents. However, this crappy, 5 year old app is syncing notes, which means every note you ever synced will be with your device The only downside is that this app does not play well in the iOS ecosystem, not providing a simple way to import a file directly to the app, but decided to go for it. I was between Evernote and Synology Note Station for that and Evernote is the correct app for this task, but I am so frustrated with Evernote that I decided letting them go is more important for me. Not out of spite, but mainly because I hope this great app gets back on track. And my way of enforcing it is showcasing my dislike by discontinuing my paid membership and posting here in the forums, so anyone knows I am sad, but still here. 2. Craft Anything but document dump Supports multiple workspaces, which is nice because I migrated all notes and plan to move notes from 'Evernote Archive' workspace to the appropriate one if needed. So I also clean up my 10 years old notes database. The workspaces I created are: Personal Work A Work B Evernote Archive Clean, powerful, beautiful app, with outstanding users communication (Slack channel) and performance 3. Apple Notes Initially planned to use Drafts for this purpose, because of the limitless capabilities of integrating notes to whichever service required. I decided to go with Apple Notes though, because Shortcuts is filling this hole for me, and the speed of jotting something down in the Apple ecosystem has changed dramatically with the latest iOS/macOS updates. Just Jots Scribbles Anything that it is not a note yet and if someone deleted it I wouldn't care. B. Migration Process 1. Synology Note Station I have already described the migration process in Synology Note Station in a post above. Amazing process, as painless as migration can be. The automatic import doesn't work or I didn't gave it the required time. The enex import is great, you basically select all notebooks and imports it in a batch. Really amazing ! 2. Craft Unfortunately, migrating to Craft was far less exciting than DS Notes. The only way to migrate notes from Evernote to Craft including attachments was: Import notebooks 1-1 from Evernote to Bear Export notes from Bear in textbundle format Import in Craft Whilst importing from Evernote to Bear was easy, basically similar to Note Station, with the difference that Bear won't import .enex files as a batch like DS Note. You need to import notebooks 1-1 and in the process rename the #evernote tag to #notebooks/YourNotebook if you want to keep your notebooks organisation. Then, importing to Craft was similarly bad. Craft has a limit of 2000 items, including notes' assets, which means depending on how many assets per note, you need to import in batches of 300-500. In addition, files bigger than 10000 characters (maybe close to 10mb ?), can't be imported. So basically, you need again notebook by notebook to import and if a notebook is big, do it in batches. Don't forget when exporting data from Bear, to check the options base64 images; export attachments After a long process of migration, you are complete, away from EN and the migration is complete in two apps actually: Bear and Craft. So, you can test your options thoroughly until you complete the move. That's it folks, migration complete. Farewell elephant 1 Link to comment
eric99 978 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Stathis said: After a long process of migration, you are complete, away from EN and the migration is complete in two apps actually: Bear and Craft. So, you can test your options thoroughly until you complete the move. That's it folks, migration complete. Farewell elephant Thanks for the detailed report 🙂 Have you already investigated the export possibilities for your next transition ? Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 32 minutes ago, eric99 said: Have you already investigated the export possibilities for your next transition ? Good point, forgot to mention that ! In Synology Note Station, the only export option is nsx, a Synology format which is basically a zip file of all the assets. In other words, if you need to migrate from Synology Note Station, it will require a lot of time. Here is a post on how you can migrate away. In Craft, you got all the usual suspects: Markdown, Textbundle, pdf and MS Word. Craft is also very agile app, meaning I expect to have more formats available in no time. In addition, if you request a feature in their Slack channel, they will get it into their backlog if it makes sense for their users. But generally speaking, most note editors I 've checked, import markdown. In Apple Notes, again not a lot of choices; just pdf. Link to comment
eric99 978 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 38 minutes ago, Stathis said: In Craft, you got all the usual suspects: Markdown, Textbundle, pdf and MS Word. Interesting, have you tested the pdf and MS word with notes with attachments (jpg, pdf...)? I ask it because evernote claims that it has "pdf export" as well, which isn't true since it doesn't export embedded pdf or other attachments. Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 Just tested the export, pdf documents are not exported, but anything else that is embedded is. Adding both pdf and docx examples, in the end of the document I added a sample.pdf document, which in docx is not showcased at all, in the pdf it appears as a block. PDF Export.pdf Export docx.docx Link to comment
RJLUK 307 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 10 hours ago, Stathis said: In Apple Notes, again not a lot of choices; just pdf. try this works well apple notes to markdown http://falcon.star-lord.me/exporter/ if/when required 1 Link to comment
ehrt74 240 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 On 6/29/2021 at 6:13 PM, hanseric said: Nice summary! Thanks for taking the time and also sending it to EN on proper developer/support channels. Hopefully they hear you. I've been stumbling through the use of V10 for the few months and it's usable, but definitely slower than it used to be. I miss the speed with which I could move in v6 and sometimes I go back to Legacy 6.25 in Windows to get certain things done. My biggest gripe is probably the 50 note limit. That and the fact that mobile for Android appears to be in VERY bad shape, judging from the almost endless stream of very low reviews in the Play Store. It's so bad that I'm actually concerned for the future of Evernote. I've seen no indication from EN that they are even aware of the lambasting they are taking there from their customers, although I can't imagine they've not noticed. But there's no response from EN that I can see anywhere. Half of my time on EN is mobile and so I've turned off all autoupdates and am manually selecting 100+ apps to update, one at a time, in my Samsung Note 10+ just to avoid an update to Evernote. My patience on that point is getting thinner and thinner, I must admit. Evernote should communicate back to their userbase on their crappy mobile experience. The last meaningful video from management on mobile seems to be from a year ago. Meanwhile, check these reviews out... These are just from the last 24 hours and they are almost all one star, maybe 2. EN should start talking to their users about this or they are going to find themselves in a tight spot, IMO, and having a real tough time recovering from the negativity the mobile app is generating, at least on the Play Store. Also, I'd really like to get back to letting my phone upgrade itself for a change. Personally i don't read too much into the play store reviews of evernote. it looks like they've been written by a bot. No one seems to write more than 3 sentences. All comments are in perfectly formed sentences, etc. etc. The likelihood of this happening when random humans are spontaneously writing comments is about zero. 1 Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, ehrt74 said: The likelihood of this happening when random humans are spontaneously writing comments is about zero. Or written by the same person Link to comment
eric99 978 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 21 hours ago, Stathis said: Just tested the export, pdf documents are not exported, but anything else that is embedded is. Adding both pdf and docx examples, in the end of the document I added a sample.pdf document, which in docx is not showcased at all, in the pdf it appears as a block. PDF Export.pdf 3.3 MB · 2 downloads Export docx.docx 2.07 MB · 0 downloads Since most attachments are pdf there is no full export then, except for markdown hopefully? I think it's a good plan not to delete your evernote database, just for backup and/or export reasons... edit: I noticed that the pdf export refers to a document on the server, not to a local copy in the export folder: https://res.craft.do/user/full/403e1ad6-b47d-c2ae-bd40-3d8f422cefa1/doc/F456EDCA-2590-4745-BC43-E6733E50A71A/331EFE46-BE58-4A75-946A-9A5C08AF3506_2/8ZpK91fThYo7VFLxq8N0rNrvgVUlKyR63Vg00Ltl23Yz/sample.pdf Link to comment
Stathis 98 Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 1 month later… After 1 month of using my new setup (DS Note for OCR file dumps, Craft for note taking), I can now say that I am glad I did the transition. I ‘d be happier if I kept EN for file dumps, but decided that expressing my disappointment by cancelling my >6 years premium subscription was far more important. Craft is a very accurate example of how EN really messed up. The note sync is not just fast, it’s blazing fast ! You can type in your iPad and see your changes almost instantaneously on your Mac and vice versa. In addition, it comes with great features that I just loved using from the very beginning, such as backlinks, workspaces, calendar notes, unlimited depth of creating notes without cluttering your note view and so much more. The only features I miss are : Clipping options Email note Tags Tags are coming soon and clipping options are easily handled using Shortcuts or SnagIt. I can live without e-mailing my notes to my note app, especially when compared to the performance and overall much higher value gotten. The app is only offered in the Apple ecosystem, highlighting the importance of building a native app, instead of a hybrid Electron. Another great aspect of Craft is its Slack channel. Enthusiast users like us chat about the platform and Craft founders, including devs, contribute to the discussions, adding features in their backlog, identifying bugs and helping users make use of their awesome features. Lessons learnt There are only a handful of note apps that support in-document OCR and even less supporting OCR in handwritten documents. Cloud storage services tend to support OCR, but you are losing the note aspect, which is obviously changing the use case Migrating data from EN is not as simple as it might seem. Notes that contain a lot of documents might not get migrated properly and new apps do not have a .enex import option. Bear seems to be the best tool to import .enex format, whilst DS Note was quite good as well. Markdown and textbundle are the most supported formats, both not supported by EN Your note app of choice needs to be ‘offline first’. When you need to grab your medical record number or your boarding pass, the information should already exist in your device Your note app of choice needs to be trustworthy, it is not acceptable to become unresponsive while taking notes during a meeting or a class Plan your switch, test it before actually making it Conclusion I strongly recommend switching from EN if your main use case is not dumping files. From my research I found that Nimbus and Amplenote are the best candidates for the switch, being the closest to the EN experience/features you are used to. If you don’t user all EN’s features, identify which ones you are using and which apps are matching those requirements. For me switching to 2 apps did the trick; DS Note for dumping files for OCR with note taking capabilities and Craft for my main note taking tool Notable Resources Keep Productive Tom Solid - Paperless movement Paperless X P.S. Amplenote founder sent me a personal e-mail requesting feedback. We ended up having a pleasant discussion of what a note taking app should be like with him explaining why they made some hard choices related to my concerns. This is an example of apps caring for their user base instead of disrespecting them with banners and limitations in premium. 1 Link to comment
Level 5 PinkElephant 8,075 Posted January 26, 2022 Level 5 Share Posted January 26, 2022 App selection depends on use cases and personal preferences, just to name a few factors. So each story can contribute to make an own informed decision. There is usually nothing that can be copied 1:1, and a setup that works today may not be working in a year, or may have not been around a year ago, since apps and OS support evolve over time. You mention one important aspect: Using several apps allows to drill deeper, but on the other hand requires to build and manage a more complex setup. Good you found your personal solution. Enjoy ! Link to comment
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