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(Archived) when use titles and tags?


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If you don't need/use the titles or tags, then don't. I do think you'll wish you had, after you get a large database. Who wants to thumb though hundreds of thumbnails looking for the screen cap from last summer of a cool desk you saw? If the title is "cool/neat desk", you can simply search on the word desk & browse those thumbnails.

I prefer to use accurate titles b/c there may be multiple scans and/or documents on a subject. Do I want to view the "Knee arthroscopy" brochure or the brochure on the surgical center? An accurate title lets me know which note is which.

Tags are useful, especially after your database gets very large. Tags serve as a cross reference. If I make a note that I took my mother to LazyBoy, Mor & Ashley Furniture to look at chairs & these are the colors & models of the ones she liked at each store, did I file it under "journal" or "Mother"? If I tag it both ways, it doesn't matter.

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BurgerNFries did a good job explaining the incredible power of Tags, so I'll limit my comment to Titles.

The beauty of titles is that you can do whatever you want. Total freedom and flexibility.

As I hit the 8,000 note mark, I have found my preferred solution.

1.) An integral part of my title structure starts off with the date (yyyy mm dd State City Company/Person Subject). Well structured titles make it easier to find typing errors. Just search and scan down the list.

2.) Consistency has great rewards in a wide-open product like Evernote. By adding a date in the title, I need to to think about the note and determine what the correct date really was.

3.) The date has no adverse affect on Evernote's strong search capabilities that allow me to find specific key words in the title (search term is intitle:)

4.) It's convenient when I want to review the past 12 months of bills - did I pay my electricity bill on time each and every month?

5.) Evernote is strongest when sorted by "Create Date". As I change to a paperless office, I enter material that might be several months or even years old. By starting the title with the date, I can make sure I have changed the "Create Date" correctly. Duplicating work? Yes, but the create date is critical to me and it is worthy the effort. Many systems to validate accuracy and quality rely on double entry {double-entry bookkeeping for instance).

6.) A well structured title reduces the need for saved searches. It is very easy to find every note for a neighboring town Rogers, Minnesota. I just type in the seach Intitle:"MN Rogers"

7.) On a personal level, since the majority of my 15+ years of saved Doc, Xls, Ppt, Pdf files also use the same naming format, it is an added benefit to maintain the same format for Evernote titles as well.

8.) And it is just plain fun to scroll down an unsearched chronological list to see what was happening in my life back in the 1980's or in 2005. It is amazing how many memories come flooding back.

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I guess I'm confused by this forum layout. I don't see how you reply to any particular post if you don't want to quote it. But anyway, re the debate between tags and folders. While I understand the tag system and see how powerful it may be, when web clipping, it does require a rather structured frame of mind as you browse in order to save a clip nicely tagged with all you need to place it in the database. The difference between folders and tags is like the difference between a headline entry in a thesaurus and the individual words of the entry. I support the creation of sub-folders AND tags. It would be great for someone to create an application that scanned each selection and created tags for it as you clipped them. Now that would be worth a crate of wine from every user to the developer.

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  • Level 5
I guess I'm confused by this forum layout. I don't see how you reply to any particular post if you don't want to quote it.

Your post is perfect. You just replied without a quote.

Title: applies to one specific note

Tag: can apply to many notes.

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I have observed several new Evernote users who see the big "Tags" panel on the left and the "Tags" line at the top of the note, and assume that they need to decide on an organizational scheme in their first 5 minutes with Evernote. In their cases, they didn't pick the right level of detail for their initial tags, so the scheme became unwieldy fairly quickly. E.g. my wife created long five-word tags that were practically a summary of that individual note, which meant there was basically a 1:1 ratio of notes and tags.

While everyone has a different style, if I had a friend starting to use Evernote for the first time, I'd tell them to just ignore tags and notebooks for their first week or two with Evernote. Once you have 40 or 50 notes, you would have a better feel for what you like to put into Evernote, and which things are hard to find by a visual scan of your note list or a text-based search. Then, you can make a few notebooks and tags to organize these notes.

Spending too much time at the beginning making all of these decisions can be a bit of a distraction. It's sort of like trying to decide on the exact menu for each meal you're going to eat in December in advance.

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E.g. my wife created long five-word tags that were practically a summary of that individual note, which meant there was basically a 1:1 ratio of notes and tags.

Yes, I did that too. Well, not five word tags, but initially, I'd tag emails from my cousins as "family". Later, I realized I didn't really need that tag b/c if I'm looking up an email, I pretty much remember who sent it & can simply do a search on their name(s). Now, although I do have three notebooks for emails (work, other, outgoing), I never tag emails.

After working in EN for a while, I'd notice those tags with only 1-5 notes & realize I didn't need those tags & deleted them.

Titles are also nice b/c if you have say, over 30 recipes for cumin waffles and one is titled "cumin waffle recipe #45 - this is my favorite!", you can simply do a search like this:

intitle:"cumin waffle" intitle:"favorite"

and find the one you are looking for.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My approach to tags is more hierarchal and I use them less for overlap and more for organization.

Example:

notebook a

notebook a email

notebook a text

notebook a web

notebook a pdf

notebook a essay

notebook a essay 1

notebook a subject 1

Every note in Notebook A will get the notebook a tag.

I may then tag a note with: notebook a, notebook a essay, notebook a essay 1, notebook a text, notebook a subject 1

So, I can quickly see only my text note from Notebook A, or only my notes related to essays, or files related to web pages on subject 1, or text files on to essay 1.

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My approach to tags is more hierarchal and I use them less for overlap and more for organization.

Example:

...

Every note in Notebook A will get the notebook a tag.

I may then tag a note with: notebook a, notebook a essay, notebook a essay 1, notebook a text, notebook a subject 1

So, I can quickly see only my text note from Notebook A, or only my notes related to essays, or files related to web pages on subject 1, or text files on to essay 1.

Interesting set up - that is one of the advantages of Evernote - more than one way to skin a cat.

Just keep in mind

the upper limit cap on notebooks is 100

the upper limit cap on tags is 10,000

And you can use the search for different formats using the search field:

  • resource:application/pdf - Matches notes with at least one pdf
    resource:image/* - Matches notes with images
    -resource:image/* - Matches notes with no images
    resource:image/png - Matches notes with at least one image/png
    resource:image/gif - Matches notes with at least one image/gif
    resource:audio/* - Matches notes with at least one audio

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the upper limit cap on notebooks is 100

One can only hope that would be increased at some point.

I use notebooks as a temporary filing system. For example, I am taking four classes this semester, and have a notebook for each. Once I have completed these classes I will move all the notes from those notebooks into a general class notebook. The tag system I use will still let me easily pull up just those related to a class, and it will free up those four notebooks. Still, I would like to see a 500 limit on the notebooks.

Thanks for your search tip!

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the upper limit cap on notebooks is 100

One can only hope that would be increased at some point.

I use notebooks as a temporary filing system. For example, I am taking four classes this semester, and have a notebook for each. Once I have completed these classes I will move all the notes from those notebooks into a general class notebook. The tag system I use will still let me easily pull up just those related to a class, and it will free up those four notebooks. Still, I would like to see a 500 limit on the notebooks.

Thanks for your search tip!

More than 100 notebooks? I don't think that is a high priority at Evernote at the current time. Maybe in the future...

I have found it more convenient to reduce the number of notebooks. I used to have many notebooks, but learned how powerful tags are and cut my notebooks to only high-level subjects. I currently have the default notebook and 7 specific notebooks. If I was going to school, I would add one additional notebook for classes and throw everything school-related in there.

  • Acquaintances (business cards, addresses, email info)
    Business (employment - current and past)
    Personal (family, house, yard, restaurants, trips, bills)
    Hobbies (computers, leisure stuff)
    Politics (sort of a personal hobby)
    Miscellaneous (a catch-all - humor, local ads, reference stuff)
    Local (non-sync'd notebook, confidential stuff)

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More than 100 notebooks? I don't think that is a high priority at Evernote at the current time. Maybe in the future...

I have found it more convenient to reduce the number of notebooks. I used to have many notebooks, but learned how powerful tags are and cut my notebooks to only high-level subjects. I currently have the default notebook and 7 specific notebooks. If I was going to school, I would add one additional notebook for classes and throw everything school-related in there.

Why use notebooks at all?

That's a serious question. If we can manage everything with tags (and we can), what's the use of notebooks? To answer my own question, notebooks are another means of organizing. Most everyone finds some value in using notebooks, some relying on it more than others. You may never need more than ten (although you may find that over the course of many years you may accumulate considerably more). Someone else may find that they only need to use one notebook. I'll let you know when I get close to 100. :wink:

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Why use notebooks at all?

That's a serious question. If we can manage everything with tags (and we can), what's the use of notebooks? To answer my own question, notebooks are another means of organizing. Most everyone finds some value in using notebooks, some relying on it more than others. You may never need more than ten (although you may find that over the course of many years you may accumulate considerably more). Someone else may find that they only need to use one notebook. I'll let you know when I get close to 100. :wink:

Notebooks are certainly useful for sharing, and for keeping notes local (off the cloud). Beyond that, I only have two notebooks, one of which is a Test notebook for experiments and things that I don't really care about. Everything else goes in the Jeff notebook. Other than that, it's tags, tags, tags.

~Jeff

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Everything else goes in the Jeff notebook. Other than that, it's tags, tags, tags.

I single notebook user... I knew you were out there!

I too use the single notebook approach—when I select the All Notebooks. But I do try to push notes into a notebooks. I guess I'm not ready to work without a net yet. :shock:

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Why use notebooks at all?

That's a serious question. If we can manage everything with tags (and we can), what's the use of notebooks?

Good question and it got me to wondering the same issue.

1.) I definitely need one notebook for non-sync'd confidential stuff (tax returns, social security number, copy of car titles, birth certificates, etc.)

2.) I also need the default notebook to analyze incoming stuff.

That's 2 notebooks.

3.) I also collect a lot of political commentary and I don't want to mix up my friends' names with Hillary, Nancy, Harry and etc., so I maintain a separate notebook for just Politics.

4.) Then I started to find out about the power of searching by date ranges, and I did not want to see a lot of stuff about World of Warcraft or my stamp collection info when I searched for something in the past 2 months, so my hobbies notebook was created.

And so on.

But bottom line - you are correct, I could get by with just one notebook. I just ended up with a system that works for me. And you can modify your set-up to suit your needs. Just stay aware of the 100 notebook limit.

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I use very few notebooks (just "Personal" and "Business") and try to keep my list of tags quite small so they are very broad areas like "Travel" and "Technology". I do this because I found that, at least for me, it makes adding tags less convenient if I have a huge list of hundreds to choose from and I feel that it clutters up the user interface.

What I do to enhance my search accuracy though is to augment my tagging by embedding my own keywords into each note using a line of the format "TAGS , , ... " as the last line on each note. The reason I do this is for fear of not finding a note in the future due to non-obvious or unusual wording in a note or a spelling mistake.

For instance what if I want to find somewhere to stay in Venice and I have lots of stuff that I saved in the past, everything from web page clips for hotels, articles in newspapers, or old hotel receipts. I can't just search for hotel because some of the candidates might be apartments. I can't just search for Venice because some of the notes might have the address in Italian. I don't want to add a real Evernote tag for "Venice" because I've travelled a lot and I'd end up with over 100 tags just to cover the cities I care about. What I do is add a line "TAGS: xHotel xVenice" as the last line on my note so now I can still do a search on "Venice Hotel" if I want to but it also gives me the option to do a more specific search for "xVenice xHotel" (the quotes are not in the search term so that the pseudo-tag order is not relevant) which gets me more explicitly to the stuff I deliberately marked.

My approach does take more care in creating the note in the first place (I also keep a master list of all xTags that I create) but since I am a very organised person I am happy to invest the time that doesn't bother me although I realise that it might be too much for others. It also means that all the messy profusion of xTags is hidden from the main Evernote UI so everything stays quite clean and streamlined but the more specific filtering on xTags capability is there if I need it.

- Julian

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A downside to too many notebooks, IMO, is the inability to search against a select number of them. It's one or all when you search, so you have to plan what you put where. Perhaps this new Stack functionality will let you search at the root level which would help address the group of Notebooks but not all search.

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Why use notebooks at all?

That's a serious question. If we can manage everything with tags (and we can), what's the use of notebooks?

I tend to use notebooks as temporary "buckets", when working on a project or investigating a purchase. For many years, I've made our Christmas cards. I currently have a "_Christmas Card Ideas" notebook (the underscore puts it at the top of the list, where it's easily accessed.) I dump everything I want to consider, for the cards, into that notebook. Later, I'll tag all notes appropriately, move them into the "Everything Else" notebook & delete the "_Christmas Card Ideas" notebook. Saves me from having to tag each note at the time I create it. Also, it's easier to just click to that notebook & see all pertinent info w/o having to type in a tag or use a saved search, since this is a "hot" topic with me at this point in time.

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The whole titles/tags/notebooks thing is one that every new Evernote user struggles with ... including me. The user forum has an awful lot of theoretical examples of how to approach notebook/tag organization, which experienced users can definitely understand and appreciate, but which can sometimes just add to the confusion for someone getting started. And it all gives those unfamiliar with EN the impression that Evernote is an arcane and inaccessible geek tool -- an assumption that is of course both inaccurate and unfortunate.

One thing that might be helpful with this is to have a page on the EN website (or maybe here), where a couple of dozen experienced Evernote users simply share the lists of notebooks and tags they've created. Each entry would begin with a sentence along the lines of, "I use Evernote for _______, and these are the notebooks and tags I use." I think that would be immensely helpful to new users, and might provide some cool hints for everyone else, as well. How about it?

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3.)...I don't want to mix up my friends' names with Hillary, Nancy, Harry...

I hear that those names are very popular for newborns today. I wonder what may be the reason for that.

I use very few notebooks (just "Personal" and "Business") and try to keep my list of tags quite small so they are very broad areas like "Travel" and "Technology". I do this because I found that, at least for me, it makes adding tags less convenient if I have a huge list of hundreds to choose from and I feel that it clutters up the user interface.

It also means that all the messy profusion of xTags is hidden from the main Evernote UI so everything stays quite clean and streamlined but the more specific filtering on xTags capability is there if I need it.

I use tag nesting to keep my hundreds of tags organized in groups and out of sight.

For instance what if I want to find somewhere to stay in Venice...

Venice... I'll be thinking about your post for the rest of the day.

Perhaps this new Stack functionality will let you search at the root level which would help address the group of Notebooks but not all search.

It appears that this is the case.

I tend to use notebooks as temporary "buckets", when working on a project or investigating a purchase. For many years, I've made our Christmas cards. I currently have a "_Christmas Card Ideas" notebook (the underscore puts it at the top of the list, where it's easily accessed.) I dump everything I want to consider, for the cards, into that notebook. Later, I'll tag all notes appropriately, move them into the "Everything Else" notebook & delete the "_Christmas Card Ideas" notebook. Saves me from having to tag each note at the time I create it. Also, it's easier to just click to that notebook & see all pertinent info w/o having to type in a tag or use a saved search, since this is a "hot" topic with me at this point in time.

I use a similar approach, only now within stacks.

My wife makes our cards too, by recycling bits of old cards and crafting new ones—a practice handed down from her mother, who still does it.

One thing that might be helpful with this is to have a page on the EN website (or maybe here), where a couple of dozen experienced Evernote users simply share the lists of notebooks and tags they've created. Each entry would begin with a sentence along the lines of, "I use Evernote for _______, and these are the notebooks and tags I use." I think that would be immensely helpful to new users, and might provide some cool hints for everyone else, as well. How about it?

That has my vote.

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Perhaps this new Stack functionality will let you search at the root level which would help address the group of Notebooks but not all search.

It appears that this is the case.

Almost. If you select the Stack notebook and do a search it is limited to the notebooks in the stack, which is great. The almost is that the stack notebook does not appear in the drop down for notebooks in the search area, at least in mixed view.

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With the new organizational scheme (stacks) for notebooks on the two major clients, we'll be increasing the maximum number of notebooks a bit in the near future.

I'm very astonished that there is a limit for the number of notebooks. This should be dropped at all (at least for pro customers).

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I'm not sure what the logic is behind the restriction. Perhaps users are being encouraged to use tag (by necessity), and not to go slap-happy with notebooks... but I'm very glad to hear the we will have more freedom to choose our organizational styles in the near future!

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Not sure about the furor for unlimited notebooks. You can simulate infinite notebooks with tags if you want. Have a parent tag called notebooks and nest as many tags for notebooks as you want under it. Wouldn't recommend it, but you could. At the same time you lose the power of the notebook drop down, but you still have the same issue of how do I find 1 notebook in a 1000.

IMO, the power of EN is not having to be that organized since you have the power of search. If you really want to be organized, tags can get you there. :o

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I use both... lots of tags and lots of notebooks. I can think of many instances where notebooks are just more convenient. For example. I may create a hundred or so web clip notes in an hour in prepping for an exam or a short informal paper, and not really know how I want to ultimately tag them, so I don't want to have to tag them and then individually remove the tags (very time consuming). I may even be trashing half of the new notes within a day or two. So I create a notebook and to clip to it for the project. Then I can decide what tagging scheme to use later. (And later may mean weeks later, by which time I've accumulated a trail of such notebooks, some of which I may just delete altogether, with their contents at some point). I guess I use them like junk drawers, without trashing my entire database. Quick and dirty notebook filing now... tag later when I can budget the time. That's my style.

Another reason I like notebooks is that I set up a saved search for each one that filters for any untagged notes. When I am in a big rush I may accumulate a large number of notes that I thought I had tagged but neglected to do so. It is useful for me to just click to the notebooks I've been using and look for those untagged notes so that I can attend to tagging them. For me, that is easier than doing that process in one large notebook.

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I use both... lots of tags and lots of notebooks. I can think of many instances where notebooks are just more convenient. For example. I may create a hundred or so web clip notes in an hour in prepping for an exam or a short informal paper, and not really know how I want to ultimately tag them, so I don't want to have to tag them and then individually remove the tags (very time consuming).

It is easy to remove a single tag from a bunch of notes, at least in the Windows client (Select the notes, Ctrl + Alt + T, hide unused tags, uncheck the tag's checkbox). Aside from that, your way works fine too and the tag way is probably about the same amount of work, so if what you're doing works for you...

~Jeff

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For me, that is easier than doing that process in one large notebook.

Yup. The beauty of the process, to each their own style. Use the trash drawer notebook concept myself. No wrong answers if it fits one's style.

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I'm not sure what the logic is behind the restriction. Perhaps users are being encouraged to use tag (by necessity), and not to go slap-happy with notebooks... !

I'm sure the reason is valid. I know Dave's posted in the past that some of the restrictions are a function of making sure things continue to work as expected across all platforms.

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Not sure about the furor for unlimited notebooks. You can simulate infinite notebooks with tags if you want.

Agreed. I still tend to use a lot of notebooks. But as I peruse the notebook list on the left, I'm often thinking, "You know, I don't need a notebook for that. Just create a tag, apply to all the notes & dump them into the "Everything else" notebook." (I sometimes take the time to do this & sometimes I don't b/c I'm lazy & focusing on something else.)

I do tend to utilize many notebooks for my "current hot topics", b/c as mdave (I think) pointed out, it's easier, when researching something, to just dump all notes & screen caps into the notebook. But then when I'm done, I do tag appropriately & move to a more generic notebook & delete the "working" notebook.

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I do tend to utilize many notebooks for my "current hot topics", b/c as mdave (I think) pointed out, it's easier, when researching something, to just dump all notes & screen caps into the notebook. But then when I'm done, I do tag appropriately & move to a more generic notebook & delete the "working" notebook.

I tend to use a project or hot topic tag, but what the hey, I'll give the working notebook a go. Old dogs and all that.

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It was probably somewhat arbitrary, but maybe also having to do with the idea that managing 100 notebook in a flat list isn't the best UI. Even with stacks (a two-level hierarchy), 100 might be unwieldy.

~Jeff

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Not sure about the furor for unlimited notebooks. You can simulate infinite notebooks with tags if you want.

Agreed. I still tend to use a lot of notebooks. But as I peruse the notebook list on the left, I'm often thinking, "You know, I don't need a notebook for that. Just create a tag, apply to all the notes & dump them into the "Everything else" notebook." (I sometimes take the time to do this & sometimes I don't b/c I'm lazy & focusing on something else.)

I do tend to utilize many notebooks for my "current hot topics", b/c as mdave (I think) pointed out, it's easier, when researching something, to just dump all notes & screen caps into the notebook. But then when I'm done, I do tag appropriately & move to a more generic notebook & delete the "working" notebook.

Burgers,

Out of curiosity, do you find you need hierarchy when using tags? If so, do you tag child tags with the parent? Do you always remember to do this when making a new note?

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Burgers,

Out of curiosity, do you find you need hierarchy when using tags? If so, do you tag child tags with the parent? Do you always remember to do this when making a new note?

Yes, I use many child tags. I intentionally do not apply parent tags to all notes for the child tags, most of the time. IMO, the reason for having child tags is to differentiate between notes & to use parent tags for organizing the child tags. Otherwise, why even have child tags? IN EN, I have a parent tag "Events". Under that, I have child tags of "my 35th HS reunion", "Mr. Fries' 40th HS reunion", "IMS half marathon 2009", etc. IMO, it's self defeating to click the "events" tag & have to wade through the photos from various events. I much prefer to click on the "Mr. Fries' 40th HS reunion" tag to find the notes I'm looking for.

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We choose a set of limits that we believe will allow the vast majority of people to use Evernote very well without hitting the limits. We test the software to behave well up to those limits.

Removing all limits would just mean that random people would unpredictably get a bad experience from our software if they use things different than others. It would also meant that runaway applications (ours or partners) would potentially render your account permanently unusable.

E.g. we've found certain partner applications like Awesome Note that can occasionally create duplicates of all of their notebooks, including multiples of duplicates. If our service didn't enforce any limits, a runaway application could leave you with millions of notebooks with no way to clean them up.

As we become confident in our software's ability to handle higher limits (and as we test those limits), we can increase them. The introduction of stacks is a good example of something we're doing to make our software handle a larger number of notebooks more gracefully, so the (very small percentage of) users who have 100 notebooks can create more when we raise the limit.

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It is easy to remove a single tag from a bunch of notes, at least in the Windows client (Select the notes, Ctrl + Alt + T, hide unused tags, uncheck the tag's checkbox).

I'm not sure, but I don't think there is a similar funcionality in the Mac client. I'd love to learn differently.

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We choose a set of limits that we believe will allow the vast majority of people to use Evernote very well without hitting the limits. We test the software to behave well up to those limits.

Removing all limits would just mean that random people would unpredictably get a bad experience from our software if they use things different than others. It would also meant that runaway applications (ours or partners) would potentially render your account permanently unusable.

E.g. we've found certain partner applications like Awesome Note that can occasionally create duplicates of all of their notebooks, including multiples of duplicates. If our service didn't enforce any limits, a runaway application could leave you with millions of notebooks with no way to clean them up.

As we become confident in our software's ability to handle higher limits (and as we test those limits), we can increase them. The introduction of stacks is a good example of something we're doing to make our software handle a larger number of notebooks more gracefully, so the (very small percentage of) users who have 100 notebooks can create more when we raise the limit.

Dave, thank you for the explanation. I can see you are being prudent.

Here's where I can see coming up on the 100 limit. I don't have a large client base (yet!), but my current practice is to create a notebook for each one. Again, I do understand that this kind of organization can be done with tags, but I think differently about tags. I use tags in two ways:

* to create subcategories within a notebook (Notebook Client A, Tag Client A Invoices)

* to create an inter-notebook categorization (Invoices)

The first use works logically (to me) without notebooks. The second use relies on notebooks as a separate tool.

I'm very new here, so really just learning, and in spite of appearances, am very open and eager to learn as much detail as I can about the systems used by the list mavens.

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  • 1 month later...
  • Level 5

According to Evernote Blog, the number of notebooks is 250.

  • "Dec 7, 2010 - We’ve increased the total number of synchronized notebooks that you can have in your account from 100 to 250. This increase is very useful for educators that organize student work in Evernote, teams that collaborate on projects using Evernote’s sharing capabilities, and anyone else that uses notebooks to organize their work."
    source:
http://blog.evernote.com/2010/12/07/upd ... r-windows/

And on the forum, Dave Engberg said:

  • Dec 29, 2010 "Previously, we permitted you to have a flat list of 100 notebooks and a hierarchical set of 10,000 tags to organize your notes. People said that they needed to organize their notebooks and didn't want to use tags, so we added Stacks and increased the notebook limit to 250 so that you can have more notebooks and hide the ones you're not interested in viewing."
    source:
http://forum.evernote.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21344&p=90491#p90491

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I'm sorry to hear that you can't make more than 100. I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. I just made a few tens of new notebooks to bring my total to 105 synced with no problems.

I'd check with support on that one.

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