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Please STOP automatically converting every checkbox list to the new checklist format


John O

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On 12/15/2020 at 1:54 AM, John O said:

When I press enter for a new line, I want a check box on the new line, not everything switched to checklist.  If I create a checklist, then keep it a checklist - that's fine.  Just do not automatically switch everything to checklists.

Completely agree. I like the new checklists (mainly because of the ease of reordering by drag and drop) but if I want a check box at the beginning of a line I should be allowed to have one! It would also be nice to choose whether to strikeout the text.

If you are not aware from other posts the workaround is to put a space before the checkbox. So <space>[] inserts a checkbox at the beginning of a line, that doesn't change to a checklist when you hit enter. You will need to add it at the beginning of every line though.

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Totally agree.

It's frustrating not only because when we press enter for a new line it transforms into a checklist, but also because it's indented. I manage checklist/boxes within tables and this messes up with the whole design and width of columns.

Typing a space before the box it's a workaround but it'd be nice that they fix this so it doesn't switch automatically.

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It seems others are not thrilled to see all their check box lists turned into checklists (with strike through).  And Thankfully there is a workaround to prevent this from happening, but adding a space before each line is cumbersome if you have lots of lists and lots of items.  So, I go back to my original request....  Can Evernote stop automatically converting existing check box lists to checklists?  I'm not asking for checklists to go away - just don't keep switching everything to checklists!  Or, allow the user some way to disable/turn off this auto-convert to checklist feature?  Perhaps something similar to how MS Word allows you to disable certain auto-correct options?

...John

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I do not think Evernote should go and change your formatting behind your back.

If you create a bulleted list without checkboxes, it leaves it as a bulleted list. At a later time, if you add checkboxes to the items in the list, Evernote will convert the bulleted list to a checklist. Please note, that conversion happens the next time you view the note. It's not like autoformating where it converts a - into a bullet or a [ ] in to a checkbox. It does it behind your back and without any indication that it is doing so.

I believe that when you leave a note, it should be in the same state when you go back to it.

I've found that if you have at least one item in your bulleted list that does not have a checkbox, then it does not convert the list for you.

checkboxes vs checklists.png

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At this point, I would really like to see an official response from Evernote.  This thread is two months old and still has recent activity, so others are clearly bothered by this behavior.  IF YOU WORK FOR EVERNOTE AND ARE READING THIS, PLEASE RESPOND!  Even if the response is that Evernote will not make any changes, I would still want to know that. 

The change I am asking Evernote to consider is allowing the user the ability/option to shut off or stop the automatic conversion of check box lists to the new checklists.  Basically the ability to tell Evernote to leave a list of check boxes alone and NOT convert it to checklists.  

Thanks,

John

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Your new idea of checklists takes a flexible tool and makes it single use. You force us to use checklists for one purpose. If it’s not checked, it’s not done. If it is, it’s over with and done. I don’t need to see it any longer. I won’t use it again. 

But lists don’t have such a single, unary purpose. Some lists the default is checked. Some, the default is not check. Most of my lists are intended to be reusable sets of things. A list for a store of things I need over time over and over, I’m checking thing and then unchecking them. Some lists again the default is checked that I need it. In a shopping list, that is always how I use checkboxes. In a To Do list, the default for a list is unchecked, so I can check it of and it’s done. 

I have far LESS use for your checklists than I do for a set of checkboxes that I know the purpose of, with a sense (check or unchecked) that makes sense to me. 

The response of Evernote, and many on this forum, seems to be “if you don’t like it, then don’t use the product”. That’s an interesting response. I’m probably one of the longest-time Evernote users. I have been using it for well over 20 years. I know that because the oldest note in my Evernote account is from March of 1998. I just looked, that isn’t a guess. But now I am looking around. OneNote does everything I need, except it is not cross platform to the extent that Evernote is. But, it supports windows and iOS, and that is enough to consider it. 

Evernote has been the most useful tool I have used over the years for organizing information. But your new UI changes have removed MOST of the usefulness and flexibility of the tool. And YOU ARE NOT LISTENING to your user base, assuming you know best. I would suggest you as designers are not actually power users of your product, so you don’t understand the effects your changes have on people that RELY on the tools to do what they need. In my case, Evernote has been able to serve my needs for over 20 years, and you have broken it’s ability more in one version than in all of that 20 years. 

Can’t edit create and update dates? I HAVE to have that capability. If I create a note after the fact for a meeting, I MUST put the create date to the date and time of the meeting. That you don’t know you have thousands of users that rely on that shows how little you know about your users. 

You CANNOT change basic behavior that users have used for 10 or 20 years without impacting their ability to actually do real work. Work they get paid to do. That you don’t understand that means you don’t understand why you will DRIVE the power uses from your platform because we CANNOT trust you to maintain a usable product. That is simply the wrong kind of arrogance on your part. 

And I’m confident you do not care. 

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Hey Mike,

Yes, I did read that putting a space before the checkbox kept it as a checkbox and I tried it on one or two check boxes, but I just never thought to add a space at the beginning of each line before each checkbox.  I tried this on one of my lists and it works great - It did not convert to a checklist!  Thanks so much for that tip! 

I still wish Evernote wouldn't automatically convert to a checklist but at least I have a decent work around now!

Thanks again Mike!

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OMG!  I'm so glad it's not just me.  This has been driving me nuts.  And every time I spend 30 minutes fixing my lists, Evernote converts them again!  So frustrating!!!  And it's not just Windows.  I'm having the problem with iOS.

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Perhaps I missed something but what is the purpose of having a strikethrough AND a check box? If an item is "completed" and checked off why do we also need to have it show with a strikethrough?

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Checkboxes (without strikethrough and not as list) are useful and give a better overview if used inside a paragraph or as kind of complex form.

Logic is as well opposite of checklists:

  • an opted checklist item stands for „done“ in a kind of to do list
  • an opted checkbox item stands for „chosen“ option or „to do“ in a kind of form

If you organize a grocery list for example opted checkboxes give you a fast and better overview on mobile which of your standard products are to buy this time (checklist items in this case deliver a worse to read list...)

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OK, I understand. Then,  how does one make a list with opted checkboxes in which, when the box is checked, there is NO strikethrough (as compared to a checklist where the strikethrough would appear when the box is checked)? It seems that the EN update does not offer the former format. 

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1 hour ago, micp2247 said:

OK, I understand. Then,  how does one make a list with opted checkboxes in which, when the box is checked, there is NO strikethrough (as compared to a checklist where the strikethrough would appear when the box is checked)? It seems that the EN update does not offer the former format. 

As explained above put a space before the checkbox. It's easiest if you use the auto formatting option. So <space>[]. You will need to add it at the beginning of each line.

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OMG, this has been making me crazy!!!  The strikethrough 😡  Does anyone know if they are likely to fix this soon?  Or is there a way to go back to the previous version? I can't possibly live my life with this strikethrough thing in all of my notes 😉 And why move the option for checkbox to a very inconvenient spot in a drop down list?  Doesn't it make sense to leave it where it was in the tool bar?  

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14 hours ago, designwino said:

OMG, this has been making me crazy!!!  The strikethrough 😡  Does anyone know if they are likely to fix this soon?  Or is there a way to go back to the previous version? I can't possibly live my life with this strikethrough thing in all of my notes 😉 And why move the option for checkbox to a very inconvenient spot in a drop down list?  Doesn't it make sense to leave it where it was in the tool bar?  

You don't have to live with check lists (including the strike through). You can choose check boxes instead. The easiest way is to type your list, highlight and then select checkboxes from the menu button. Alternatively start the line you're typing with a space then insert a checkbox  <space>[]

[] anywhere on a line except at the very start will give a green check box instead of a list.

There won't be a 'fix' since this is designed to give users the option for either approach.

 

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9 hours ago, agsteele said:

You don't have to live with check lists (including the strike through). You can choose check boxes instead. The easiest way is to type your list, highlight and then select checkboxes from the menu button. Alternatively start the line you're typing with a space then insert a checkbox  <space>[]

[] anywhere on a line except at the very start will give a green check box instead of a list.

There won't be a 'fix' since this is designed to give users the option for either approach.

 

Thank you for the suggestion.  It is a nightmare, however, if you are working with an existing check box list.  You can't enter and add boxes on the next line during use if you are modifying the existing list without completely faffing around. I like the idea of having both options, but I'm sorry, it is not an efficient update!

 

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16 hours ago, designwino said:

Thank you for the suggestion.  It is a nightmare, however, if you are working with an existing check box list.  You can't enter and add boxes on the next line during use if you are modifying the existing list without completely faffing around. I like the idea of having both options, but I'm sorry, it is not an efficient update!

I understand the challenge.  I'm not sure how this could be done differently. A choice had to be made as to which form of boxes was going to be presumed when converting a list created in v 6 when opening in v10.  It happens that the choice made does not work for you but does work for me. I think that all you can do is highlight an existing check list, turn off the form that you don't want and select the form that you do require. Definitely not efficient but possibly the only option apart from sticking with the legacy version of Evernote.  I doubt that this is going to change however so you may eventually have to bite the bullet and fix each note as you come to them for the first time.

Of course it isn't such an issue with new notes and lists since you get to chose what you want from the outset.

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I'm guessing that if Evernote introduced the option of not indenting and not crossing out many of the objections to checklists would disappear. I actually love checklists because of the crossing out and the ability to reorder things so easily. There are occassions though when I don't want the crossing out and have to resort to check boxes. I suppose that being able to configure each individual checklist would be more tricky but not impossible.

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4 hours ago, agsteele said:

I understand the challenge.  I'm not sure how this could be done differently. A choice had to be made as to which form of boxes was going to be presumed when converting a list created in v 6 when opening in v10.  It happens that the choice made does not work for you but does work for me. I think that all you can do is highlight an existing check list, turn off the form that you don't want and select the form that you do require. Definitely not efficient but possibly the only option apart from sticking with the legacy version of Evernote.  I doubt that this is going to change however so you may eventually have to bite the bullet and fix each note as you come to them for the first time.

Of course it isn't such an issue with new notes and lists since you get to chose what you want from the outset.

Ok, I may have missed how easy it was to highlight the entire note/list and change it over.  I will calm down a bit now ;) Thank you! 

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I would prefer the option of choosing checklist or checkbox as the list style. In the meantime I came up with another workaround. When making my list I choose bullet list for the style. Then I select the items I want checkboxed and add checkboxes using the option under +. New entries need checkbox added but at least adding items won’t convert previous items on your list.

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Probably you have not heard anything, because it is checklists now. It is not a bug, it is a feature.

So better get used to checklists, unless you want to invest more time and frustration into working around it.

This does not mean I promote blind conversion into checklists, it is AFAIK just the way it works from v10 onwards. Honestly it is an improvement over checkboxes, if you are working with a list. Checkboxes can still be used, for example to set up template layouts where in a copy individual check marks are needed. Most users seem to be neutral or happy about it, this thread currently has ... 3 votes.

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Nope.  I have to do this every single time I enter or modify my list and then it unchecks all the boxes.  This is so unbelievably maddening.  I am ready to abandon Evernote over it as it is beyond frustrating to have to do this every single time I use a note! 

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As I said, I understand your frustration when you use EN as you describe.

What I just say is IMHO you better make up your mind, because the checklist is most likely there to stay. So either you change your way of using EN checkboxes / checklists, or you need to think about another solution.

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12 hours ago, John Canning said:

I do not think Evernote should go and change your formatting behind your back.

If you create a bulleted list without checkboxes, it leaves it as a bulleted list. At a later time, if you add checkboxes to the items in the list, Evernote will convert the bulleted list to a checklist. Please note, that conversion happens the next time you view the note. It's not like autoformating where it converts a - into a bullet or a [ ] in to a checkbox. It does it behind your back and without any indication that it is doing so.

I believe that when you leave a note, it should be in the same state when you go back to it.

I've found that if you have at least one item in your bulleted list that does not have a checkbox, then it does not convert the list for you.

checkboxes vs checklists.png

I agree.  It should be the same when you return to as it was when you left it.  Sadly this is making me so crazy they may lose a long-time customer over it.  There is no reason that both of these list systems cannot be incorporated and used as we desire.  I am desperately hoping they will address this in their next update. Fingers crossed!

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I honestly thought that making a checkbox list from the dropdown menu also meant it would stay a checkbox list.
But when I press enter to add a new row, it ***CONVERTS THE WHOLE LIST*** to a checklist.... 

WHAT?

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I second this. If Checkboxes and Checklists are different, and we choose to use a Checkbox (by the cumbersome new Insert method), why would the program designers think that hitting Return/Enter would mean we want to convert it to a Checklist.

I miss the old functionality, and request that if I enter a Checkbox, then hitting Return/Enter should actually start a new line with a new Checkbox.

In my daily use, and in both Templates and many current notes, I use a Checkbox to indicate an unanswered or uncompleted item. When completed I typically check the box and enter text at the end of the line, in a separate font. This lets me know what the answer or resolution was. In Checklist mode, this "resolution" text is also struck through, which does not delineate it from the original question, task, etc.

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8 hours ago, John O said:

IF YOU WORK FOR EVERNOTE AND ARE READING THIS, PLEASE RESPOND! 

@John O As you realise, these forums are primarily user-to-user spaces so the hope of getting a formal Evernote response is low.

There have been a number of public explanations about the logic of the checkbox/list conundrum. These have been clear that this is the plan for the future so I don't anticipate any different responses appearing in these forums. These explanations have been in various announcement videos and interviews - mostly with the Evernote CEO.

I don't think your suggestion is at all unreasonable but I don't expect that you'll get a response here. It is possible that that your idea has been noted but given the numbers of requests and glitches to be resolved you may just prefer to revert to the legacy version if this issue is such a big deal in your workflow.

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Thanks @agsteele, I thought or at least hoped Evernote would pay more attention to this forum since it is supposed to be enhancement requests, but like you said, this idea would fall pretty low on a long list of glitches and other issues that need attention.  I actually did stop using the Windows App for about a month because the page reload problem made it completely unusable.  That page reload problem appears to be fixed, so now it is just back to the frustration of dealing with the list of check boxes / check lists!  

I also have Evernote on the iPad and discovered that it does NOT change check box lists to check lists on the iPad!  So, I got a small bluetooth keyboard for the iPad and have been using that.  I guess the iPad is another possible workaround. 

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On 2/1/2021 at 1:56 PM, John Canning said:

I do not think Evernote should go and change your formatting behind your back.

If you create a bulleted list without checkboxes, it leaves it as a bulleted list. At a later time, if you add checkboxes to the items in the list, Evernote will convert the bulleted list to a checklist. Please note, that conversion happens the next time you view the note. It's not like autoformating where it converts a - into a bullet or a [ ] in to a checkbox. It does it behind your back and without any indication that it is doing so.

I believe that when you leave a note, it should be in the same state when you go back to it.

I've found that if you have at least one item in your bulleted list that does not have a checkbox, then it does not convert the list for you.

checkboxes vs checklists.png

THIS EXACTLY THIS!!

If I take an extra click to add checkboxes to a list, STOP CONVERTING IT TO CHECKLIST!!

This is utterly frustrating, I have a ton of notes that rely on what is now the checkbox feature, but after I adjust them to checkbox, if the list has checkboxes on all lines, when I come back to the note I see it converted to a checklist AAARGH!! My notes are now a jumbled combination of checklists and checkboxes even after formatting them to checkboxes!!

I don't deny the usage of checklists and applaud the added distinction between checklists and checkboxes, BUT PLEAAAASE STOP THIS AUTO CORRECTION!!

Because of this decision, I'm still using 7.14 and I am seriously contemplating on moving all my notes to Gdrive on Words or Excels in a folder called NEVERNOTE!

Edited by kaleid
I HATE THIS SH......
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