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To all disappointed premium users: let's cancel our subscriptions


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To all disappointed premium users: For the last 1,5 years we paid their bills, hoping that the announcements of the new CEO would finally come to a good ending.

What we got: dropping of all native clients. Using full functionality you are now a forgotten grey coloured "legacy" user! Releasing a beta (V10), no excuses, no roadmap, no plans... but CEO dreaming big fantasies of a great future ("delivering more in 12 months than in 5 years") in several interviews...but they do not even get the new android version to life (support from 2020-11-17: they have no release date)... Evernote Beta (V10) has been out for weeks and they even did not resolve basic problems as the spell checking disaster. The speed of development is much too Small... my guess: there will be no feature and speed parity with legacy within a year. Want to open a betting thread?

Interrupting working productivity concepts rolling out immature beta software is a no go. Customers went completely out of focus!!! I am not willing to go on paying for a service that obviously stopped appreciating its customers. I hope many premium users will cancel their subscriptions to give their feedback through the bill. I did.

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On 11/18/2020 at 11:39 AM, Alxa said:

To all disappointed premium users

I'm still happily using the Legacy product - no disappointments; just renewed my subscription  
I won"t look at the Version 10 product until the work is completed

edit: I'm still using public link sharing

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9 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I'm still happily using the Legacy product - no disappointments; just renewed my subscription  
I'll won"t look at the Version 10 product until the work is completed

Public link sharing activated on notes in EN web oder EN android is not visible in EN legacy on windows and the other way round. So EN actively changed the mechanism public link sharing is handled... So EN legacy does not just go on working happily as it was. If you want to use basic features as this publik link sharing you are forced to EN 10 or web instead. Workflow killed.

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I’m absolutely not cancelling my subscription! Cancel to use what? There’s none that come near Evernote in practice. I’ll wait things out, personally I think Ian Small and the team are on the right track, have mistakes been made - absolutely, but it is what it is. 

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21 minutes ago, wbutchart said:

I’m absolutely not cancelling my subscription! Cancel to use what? There’s none that come near Evernote in practice. I’ll wait things out, personally I think Ian Small and the team are on the right track, have mistakes been made - absolutely, but it is what it is. 

What on earth does “it is what it is” mean? It is a load of rubbish, a badly written unusable bit of software, not a pale shadow of its former self it it. 

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43 minutes ago, wbutchart said:

I’m absolutely not cancelling my subscription! Cancel to use what? There’s none that come near Evernote in practice. I’ll wait things out, personally I think Ian Small and the team are on the right track, have mistakes been made - absolutely, but it is what it is. 

Completely agree.  It is what it is, the starting point of a new framework they can iterate upon and deliver; if you believe what they say.

I prefer to believe as having tried the alternatives for my use case quite frankly if they never did anything else to V10 it's still way better than anything else and better than the legacy clients, for my use case.

An interesting 12-months ahead I imagine

 

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57 minutes ago, MrIllustrator said:

What on earth does “it is what it is” mean? It is a load of rubbish, a badly written unusable bit of software, not a pale shadow of its former self it it. 

It is what it is - means exactly that. Frankly this is the situation, I’m gonna wait it out.  

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36 minutes ago, danio72 said:

Completely agree.  It is what it is, the starting point of a new framework they can iterate upon and deliver; if you believe what they say.

I prefer to believe as having tried the alternatives for my use case quite frankly if they never did anything else to V10 it's still way better than anything else and better than the legacy clients, for my use case.

An interesting 12-months ahead I imagine

 

Yeah, I have experienced my fair share of bugs and frustrations with E10, but, having tried out the alternatives there is still nothing that actually gets near even what 10 does - for me. So I’ll wait out the glitches and hope they get resolved (which they sure seem to be). Personally I think dealing with the inherent issues and creating a shared platform is absolutely sensible, though they may have been a bit too quick in releasing the new clients to the mass market. 

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4 hours ago, Alxa said:

I hope many premium users will cancel their subscriptions to give their feedback through the bill.

Good suggestion - let's get them into real trouble so they can't ever fix the issues.  I still haven't found something better than Evernote - maybe a little patience until they get their act properly together?  I'd hate to have to use some of the alternatives...

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well, tactically cancelling our premium subscriptions is the only message they cannot ignore. and complete neglect of the premium customers highlighting broken workflows is very much what I see here. did anybody notice how many premium folks on here are posting in the forums for the very 1st time with a single message of frustration on the stripped down V10? and, no, just because fully featured "legacy" can still be downloaded and used this is not a solution, it is an unsupported stopgap we can at best use at our own risk for an unspecified time.

this is precisely why I have cancelled my subscription despite still having four months to go before the end of my term. should a miracle occur and EN even remotely comes back to feature parity with the fully featured "legacy" apps, I can still renew (which is very unlikely by now in my case with devonthink being a formidable EN replacement for me).

as there is no interaction with the premium base on their / our very legitimate concerns I agree with @Alxa, cancelling for now is the only way to make ourselves heard. if EN indeed does get it right, we can still revoke our cancellation / subscribe again...

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If you need to/ decide to move away from Evernote,  then obviously you should end your subscription.  If you intend to go on using it,  then it would seem monumentally silly to expect the company to mend its ways because you reduce its income.  They'll lose staff,  update slower,  and complaints will get more and more strident until there's no point in continuing.  Congratulations,  the golden goose is dead.

As to 'lack of interaction' - there's no history in this forum of Evernote ever having a discussion with users about where they should go next.  You're welcome to submit suggestions,  but this ain't a democracy;  Evernote take their own decisions based on feedback and corporate economics.  If that suits you,  stay;  if not - bye.

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1 hour ago, gazumped said:

As to 'lack of interaction' - there's no history in this forum of Evernote ever having a discussion with users about where they should go next.  You're welcome to submit suggestions,  but this ain't a democracy;  Evernote take their own decisions based on feedback and corporate economics.  If that suits you,  stay;  if not - bye.

interaction does not need to take place in the forums. it could just as well be in an interview, a blog entry or otherwise. and I don't mean infamous interviews claiming only 2% use tags..;-). wouldn't you appreciate a little more clarity on what to expect, too?

and you are of course right, this is not a democracy, it's a commercial enterprise - that's precisely why the only way to influence the course of action is (potentially temporary) cancellation. but anybody to decide on their own of course...

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57 minutes ago, toao said:

interaction does not need to take place in the forums. it could just as well be in an interview, a blog entry or otherwise. and I don't mean infamous interviews claiming only 2% use tags..;-). wouldn't you appreciate a little more clarity on what to expect, too?

and you are of course right, this is not a democracy, it's a commercial enterprise - that's precisely why the only way to influence the course of action is (potentially temporary) cancellation. but anybody to decide on their own of course...

That is the market mechanism I meant. The obviously only way to signal our disapproval is through the (potential) decrease of income. I believe all the anger would be much less, if Evernote would actively support and maintain their native apps within the ecosystem until they have a new client with feature and performance parity. I cannot approve being put to the sidetrack left with an unsupported and meanwhile buggy legacy client. This mistake of degrading and declaring the functional clients to unsupported "legacy" was a step, Evernote could easily undo AND still go ahead on their route to build new apps.

It would show much appreciation for their customers, something that is missing for a while. Mistakes may happen, when you learn from it. 

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I don't get what you're trying to do here. Who cares if you're leaving? This isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departures. You don't think people have already decided to leave if they're unhappy? Are you staging a coup? 

Despite others being upset, I am extremely excited about these updates. Just move on and stop filling the forums with your negative attitude. 

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1 hour ago, Jeremye said:

I am extremely excited about these updates.

I simply cannot understand your statement, what on earth is there to be excited about? Please explain how a truly awful “upgrade” to a formally brilliant app is exciting, how utterly destroying perfectly good workflows and complete disregard for existing users is a good thing and exciting?

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Even on Twitter you can see many people who switch to alternatives. If more people especially Premium users decide to leave, and basic free users find it not satisfied when Evernote announced two-device-only policy, the revenue of the company will fall. Evernote will have to choose between shutting down the company, or have to change to accommodate users' needs better.

I see the trend of falling because Evernote has kept silent all the times after introducing their new iOS version. Nothing improves except slow bug fixing updates. Their attitude has prepared for their worsening future.

For users who subscribes through Apple's App Store, already finds alternatives and has just renewed for no more than 3 months, I urge you to consider requesting for refund even Evernote itself does not have refund policy.

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6 hours ago, Alvin C said:

I urge you to consider requesting for refund even Evernote itself does not have refund policy.

So tying up even more resources at Evernote so there are fewer staff to deal with technical queries,  or to work on fixing them... and denying income so they can't afford to keep on employing coders...

Good plan,  providing you're definitely leaving,  or if you work for a competitor...

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48 minutes ago, gazumped said:

So tying up even more resources at Evernote so there are fewer staff to deal with technical queries,  or to work on fixing them... and denying income so they can't afford to keep on employing coders...

Good plan,  providing you're definitely leaving,  or if you work for a competitor...

Evernote won't care for us anyway. Some of the features have been requested for like more than 5 years without any response. Even the sh*t show and this "Newly Updated Version 10 on Mac and iOS" app is close to unusable and they don't even admit it. Sigh, I'm moving out.

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8 hours ago, MrIllustrator said:

I simply cannot understand your statement, what on earth is there to be excited about? Please explain how a truly awful “upgrade” to a formally brilliant app is exciting, how utterly destroying perfectly good workflows and complete disregard for existing users is a good thing and exciting?

I don't think it's a truly awful upgrade. I enjoy the cross platform unifying in look. I enjoy the ability to drag and drop bullet points, I enjoy the ability to input headers with a '#', I enjoy the simplification of fonts, and I even enjoy the tags on the bottom. I enjoy the new "New Note" button and the ability to add a template right off the bat. I enjoy that the service Filterize still works. Reminders picker is better and the ability to view my tag hierarchy on my iPhone is long overdue and appreciated.

So if I'm being selfish, as most of you are, my workflow was not interrupted. It was enhanced. 

I trust the direction Evernote is headed at this point. I think Ian has done a good job of expressing the vision, and holding to that. I am confident that they have enough data to understand what their users do and do not use. I was about to leave Evernote right before the first "behind the scene" video came out. It was enough to keep me around because I saw a company with a committed leader. 

At this point in my life, I'm ok with where I'm at with Evernote. I get it that you're not, and maybe one day I wont' be, but until then, I'm excited. 

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5 minutes ago, Jeremye said:

I don't think it's a truly awful upgrade. I enjoy the cross platform unifying in look. I enjoy the ability to drag and drop bullet points, I enjoy the ability to input headers with a '#', I enjoy the simplification of fonts, and I even enjoy the tags on the bottom. I enjoy the new "New Note" button and the ability to add a template right off the bat. I enjoy that the service Filterize still works. Reminders picker is better and the ability to view my tag hierarchy on my iPhone is long overdue and appreciated.

So if I'm being selfish, as most of you are, my workflow was not interrupted. It was enhanced. 

I trust the direction Evernote is headed at this point. I think Ian has done a good job of expressing the vision, and holding to that. I am confident that they have enough data to understand what their users do and do not use. I was about to leave Evernote right before the first "behind the scene" video came out. It was enough to keep me around because I saw a company with a committed leader. 

At this point in my life, I'm ok with where I'm at with Evernote. I get it that you're not, and maybe one day I wont' be, but until then, I'm excited. 

+1

I've only broadly gained from V10 for my workflow but differently to yourself I did leave Evernote last year... but I came back because frankly having picked the best of the rest [for my needs] it was *****!  DEVONthink.  Personal experience of course, but having once had to re-sync all my data to then be faced with it a second time - plus data loss.  I came back to Evernote 🥰

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EV10 is not great at the moment, but even now I'm sticking with EV10. Premium user since 2015, tried several other product (free and paid) but EV is stil my personal favorite. It took some getting used to .... But I am convinced that Evernote 10 marks a new era. 

Shoutout to dev-team: still believe in your ability to make great product once again

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2 hours ago, Jeremye said:

I don't think it's a truly awful upgrade. I enjoy the cross platform unifying in look. I enjoy the ability to drag and drop bullet points, I enjoy the ability to input headers with a '#', I enjoy the simplification of fonts, and I even enjoy the tags on the bottom. I enjoy the new "New Note" button and the ability to add a template right off the bat. I enjoy that the service Filterize still works. Reminders picker is better and the ability to view my tag hierarchy on my iPhone is long overdue and appreciated.

and not to forget, I enjoy the dark theme, well done!

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why should I cancel a subscription for a service I‘m happy to use?

yes, V10 has issues regarding features and speed, but a) legacy version for desktop systems are still available and b) I do like new look & feel of iOS versions (multitasking is possible now, search is very fast, editor is nice).

yes, your post was addressed to disappointed users - so, my answer is obsolete, not disappointed (anymore) here...

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On 11/19/2020 at 4:37 PM, gazumped said:

Hmmn.  Everyone is entitled to their own reaction - mine is:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

 

Yep. Everybody is looking through own lenses.

Some of or us are more pessimistic, some realistic, and some (too) optimistic. It will be good to respect all perspectives.

There are also unconscious things like for example:

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Oh, sweet revenge. What has mankind not destroyed over the centuries to reach honor and justice. Or what was defined as such ...

IMHO a very stupid approach - not oriented in solving problems, but magnifying little egos, by making everything and everybody around them small. Who has ever watched the brilliant work of Charly Chaplin about „the dictator“ knows what to expect.

EN has made a first step to break up an often lamented period of stagnation, and yes, they made mistakes by doing so. But for me the new generation shows promise, and currently the legacy versions on Mac and PC make sure that my essential workflows continue to function.

For me EN continues to be my productivity tool of choice. If they deliver on what they promised, I don’t think I need to make a switch.

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interesting reactions here..."revenge", suggesting to leave, "cutting off ones nose to spute the face" (while directed at me as a non native speaker I still thought that was funny..:-D..)...the point (I guess @Alxa) but certainly myself was trying to make is actually fairly simple and still absolutely valid: the unrest about the many broken workflows and other legitimate concerns and complaints the V10 release has created is not being addressed by EN. not in interviews, not in blog posts, not here. I guess up to here we can all agree. so there are now at least three options:

1) one can simply leave EN behind.

2) one can try to sit things out in the hope the legacy versions will work long enough *and* V10 will at some point become usable for ones personal workflows.

3) one can try to influence the chain of events to make sure 2) actually happens. as EN is not communicating about the problems it has created the only way I can see to do that is cancellation (and if successful take back the cancellation) - it's a tactic, not a revenge or similar.

what's interesting is that 2) & 3) actually want the same thing, yet in this thread are increasingly frustrated going after each other, which I think is not necessary. the difference likely is in the level of trust one still has in EN after their recent actions. many of us have / had strong emotional bonds to this software and we share the goal of wanting it to do what it did and much more on top of it. let's not lose sight of that just because of disagreements on how to get there..;-)

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2 hours ago, toao said:

as EN is not communicating about the problems

I appreciate the frustrations,  but what exactly are you expecting them to communicate?  Evernote isn't a co-op or a democracy,  so they're not going to ask our permission to do things;  they're not going to promise to fix things they're probably still working on,  and they may not have taken some decisions in light of Global Pandemics, unpredictable user reactions and the probable system strains of running two generations of apps at the same time.  Oh - and no corporate is ever EVER going to say 1) we made a mistake or 2) we're sorry.  Their lawyers wouldn't let them.  Throw in commercial confidentiality,  a set of rapacious competitors revelling in the problems they're seeing at Evernote,  and customers surrounding the building with burning torches and pitchforks (I made that last one up - I hope!)...

The best and most productive thing they can do is to metaphorically roll up their collar and just get on with fixing things as fast as possible.  Which is actually what we want them to do anyway!

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5 minutes ago, tony10000 said:

I was on a monthly subscription.  I canceled it and moved to Notion.  Works for me.  YMMV.

I've tried Notion...a couple of weeks/months... but it is not made for productivity. Way too many distractions and options to be productive.
It is a great tool, but Evernote is better (version 10 hopefully soon) for productivity and second brain.

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1 minute ago, ArjenC said:

I've tried Notion...a couple of weeks/months... but it is not made for productivity. Way too many distractions and options to be productive.
It is a great tool, but Evernote is better (version 10 hopefully soon) for productivity and second brain.

You don't have to make it complex and pretty like many users do.  

I just transferred my data from EN and navigate from the bar on the left. 

I created my favorites and am happy with the results.  

EN and Notion are more alike than different since they are both running on Electron.  

Notion has much better communication with its customers and I like their roadmap.

As I said, YMMV

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2 hours ago, gazumped said:

I appreciate the frustrations,  but what exactly are you expecting them to communicate?  Evernote isn't a co-op or a democracy,  so they're not going to ask our permission to do things;  they're not going to promise to fix things they're probably still working on,  and they may not have taken some decisions in light of Global Pandemics, unpredictable user reactions and the probable system strains of running two generations of apps at the same time.  Oh - and no corporate is ever EVER going to say 1) we made a mistake or 2) we're sorry.  Their lawyers wouldn't let them.  Throw in commercial confidentiality,  a set of rapacious competitors revelling in the problems they're seeing at Evernote,  and customers surrounding the building with burning torches and pitchforks (I made that last one up - I hope!)...

The best and most productive thing they can do is to metaphorically roll up their collar and just get on with fixing things as fast as possible.  Which is actually what we want them to do anyway!

there would be plenty of ways to communicate or engage on this pro-actively as well as re-actively after the botched release of the software: surveys about the specific issues caused, acknowledgement of the pain caused, communicating which features are coming back eventually (creates no problem with the competition, as those features were there before), etc, etc. I am not a marketing specialist but enough of a generalist to know not communicating is the worst you can do in a situation like this.

key point to me (and this is likely where we will differ) and based on my experience (I have been running fairly big corporate orgs) the *only* way to influence an organization as inward looking as EN is commercial pressure. thus my suggestion. but like I said, everybody to their own liking.

bottom line however seems to be the level of trust we all individually have left with EN. for some it's broken, for some it is severely bruised and some still have enough trust to wait things out. I am in the middle category and my personal flavor is at least attempting to do/say something.

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3 minutes ago, tony10000 said:

You don't have to make it complex and pretty like many users do.  

I just transferred my data from EN and navigate from the bar on the left. 

I created my favorites and am happy with the results.  

EN and Notion are more alike than different since they are both running on Electron.  

Notion has much better communication with its customers and I like their roadmap.

As I said, YMMV

I fully understand you.
Made the same consideration months ago.
Tried to embrace Notion, but failed. Hope you will have a better experience at Notion.

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3 minutes ago, ArjenC said:

I fully understand you.
Made the same consideration months ago.
Tried to embrace Notion, but failed. Hope you will have a better experience at Notion.

So far, so good.  I was on a monthly plan, so easy enough to switch back.  I still have EN installed and will monitor their progress and direction.

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46 minutes ago, toao said:

my personal flavor is at least attempting to do/say something.

Again,  I understand the impulse and,  indeed I have done a few things behind the scenes to register my initial extreme disapproval... but continuing to heckle Evernote from the sidelines is like standing behind Tiger Woods on the golf course when he's teeing off and continually asking questions or making suggestions.  Or - my favourite - trying to tell Kimi Raikkonen how to drive his racing car,  as his engineer did once in Abu Dhabi.

Kimi's response: "Just leave me alone, I know what I am doing." - I imagine he was a little busy and knew that this was a public broadcast, otherwise he might have been more... expressive.  It was a pretty famous reaction...

Kimi.jpg.e188addc2793497f5515f20cceacb8b0.jpg

- and I bet Evernote wish they were allowed to make similar comments to customers....    🤣

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1 minute ago, gazumped said:

Again,  I understand the impulse and,  indeed I have done a few things behind the scenes to register my initial extreme disapproval...

see, that's precisely the difference - there is some sort of communications channel open to/with you that is not open to the average premium user. that might also be part of the reason why you are more willing to be patient. in a way you seem to be proving my point on the necessity of communications.

the difference between the current situation with EN and your humorous comparisons is that we collectively are paying EN for a product / a service. and as opposed to Kimi's engineer I am not telling EN what to do, but mostly "this is not working for us - talk to us, we are paying your bills."

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55 minutes ago, toao said:

see, that's precisely the difference - there is some sort of communications channel open to/with you that is not open to the average premium user. that might also be part of the reason why you are more willing to be patient. in a way you seem to be proving my point on the necessity of communications.

Completely incorrect.  I am a normal(ish) Premium user with exactly the same access as you.  I just don't share my messages or actions with the world on a regular basis.

56 minutes ago, toao said:

the difference between the current situation with EN and your humorous comparisons is that we collectively are paying EN for a product / a service. and as opposed to Kimi's engineer I am not telling EN what to do, but mostly "this is not working for us - talk to us, we are paying your bills."

You might (just about) have a point there - you bought your membership o0n the grounds of the features and performance of the previous public product.  If that is seriously downgraded in this new version,  you have a reason to ask for better service or -maybe- some subscription back.  But I'd bet that the terms and conditions that no-one reads when they subscribe contain something along the lines of 'best of our ability' and other clauses that will invalidate any refunds.  So your main choice is either to go or to stay.  And,  by the way,  "talking to you" was never part of the deal you're paying for!

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1 minute ago, eric99 said:

Interesting, is there a way back from notion to EN? Does notion have .enex export?

No exex export.  Options are PDF, Markdown+CSV, and HTML.  It would be easy to get any of those into EN.  

By comparison, the current EN only offers ENEX export.

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Simple for me.  V10 BROKE my workflow both in feature and speed.  EN says they are going add function back.  So I stay on 6.25.1 until they add enough feature back or they don't.  Or 6.25.1 sunsets. 

If V10 doesn't get fixed I will have a tough call to make.  Nothing  else I have seen on the market today works as well as 6.25.1 for my use case.  No need to stick myself with a sharp object at this point.  Question will be how does the partially remedied V10 compare to the market at the point in time 6.25.1 goes away.  Control what I can control and all that.

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28 minutes ago, tony10000 said:

No exex export.  Options are PDF, Markdown+CSV, and HTML.  It would be easy to get any of those into EN.  

By comparison, the current EN only offers ENEX export.

yeah, but the difference is that many note taking apps can import enex format, and if EN would fail, *every* note taking app will provide enex import. Therefore, EN is the safest place for my notes. I'm 100% confident that I can switch any time to any place. This can't be said for other "alternatives"...

As an example see also: Standalone utility to convert Evernote to PDF, HTML, TXT, RTF, EML, MSG, PST, XPS, MHT, EMF, EPUB, OXPS, JPG, GIF, BMP, PNG, TIFF, DOC and DOCX formats https://www.bitrecover.com/evernote/converter/

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5 hours ago, gazumped said:

Oh - and no corporate is ever EVER going to say 1) we made a mistake or 2) we're sorry.

It's a false statement. About 8-6 year ago there was a problem with the integrity of EvN servers for about half a day. Then CEO officially apologized for issues and offered an extra year of premium subscription for free for all those affected. QED.

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7 hours ago, toao said:

2) one can try to sit things out in the hope the legacy versions will work long enough *and* V10 will at some point become usable for ones personal workflows.

While the Legacy product continues to function, I'm content (Mac user)
and have no reason to join the increasingly despondent crowd

>>3) one can try to influence the chain of events

I'm do some and providing objective feedback   
I'm not into submitting Boohoo posts, and think they just clutter the forums and detract from the work

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2 minutes ago, DTLow said:

While the Legacy product continues to function, I'm content (Mac user)
and have no reason to join the increasingly despondent crowd

Different strokes for different folks...if you are content and it works for you, no need to change.

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I continue to be surprised that I appear to be one of the few Evernote “power users” who is much happier with v10. There are some issues (like inability to sort search results by reminder date) that drive me crazy, but sometimes you need to work around limitations and make the best of things. Evernote is still worlds better than other options from my testing/monitoring.... and galaxies better than my old physical filing cabinet. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, aukirk said:

I continue to be surprised that I appear to be one of the few Evernote “power users” who is much happier with v10. 

Probably just means you use a different set of features than others.  V10 is painful with a capital P for me.  Not useable at all.  For all the reasons others have posted.  Glad it is working for you.  

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1 hour ago, CalS said:

Probably just means you use a different set of features than others.  V10 is painful with a capital P for me.  Not useable at all.  For all the reasons others have posted.  Glad it is working for you.  

Most definitely... my workflow doesn't involve Apple Scripts... and minimal tagging.  I do use a lot of notebooks, and switching between notebooks is not as easy with v10... but for my use case v10 is a big improvement, especially around reminders and the note editor.

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6 hours ago, Kolmir said:

It's a false statement. About 8-6 year ago there was a problem with the integrity of EvN servers for about half a day. Then CEO officially apologized for issues and offered an extra year of premium subscription for free for all those affected. QED.

Evernote is more than a product like a Moleskine notebook, which you don't have a relationship with them after buying except that you have to exchange a new one because of quality. Evernote is a cloud service with software as a means to deliver features every second 24/7. Maintenance of services is needed all the times, and even some issues cannot be avoided, they should be working hard to prevent these to minimum. This fact is where trust lies, and trust implies communication is necessary.

The relationship between users and developers/companies has been changing and developing over decades, from merely a product to a service, and even more than services. A service may become like a nation because they store (more and more of) our privacy on the server. Now they are still an enterprises but they are taking more roles as governments. No matter what happens in the future, everything is changing and I won't be surprised people one day will call for democracy in enterprises and companies will consider that. But until now people are concerning more and more and some companies like Google are releasing transparency reports every year as a communication means to reassure the public that their service is reliable and trustworthy.

I don't want to say too far, but at this moment I regard note-taking apps as a kind of services which trust is a must, and so communication. I store my data on THEIR server not only on my devices especially when they dump local notebooks. I choose to store THEIRS because I trust them and I find it reliable so I can access and make use of my data all the time. I choose not to because I don't trust them and wonder what they will do to harm me (like losing notes, notes no longer can be exported...).

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Evernote is a product, not a religion.  I've been using it on Windows, Mac, Android, and iOS since 2013 because it did what I needed it to do and it was useful enough to justify the expense.  So far, all I've heard from Evernote is how the new, improved version will help them by causing them less work.  None of the few new features helps me in any way, and the loss of the old features means this product no longer does what I need it to do.  My renewal comes up in January.  Why would I spend money on a product I don't like?  I'm not canceling out of revenge.  I wish them well.  They simply are no longer selling a product I care to buy.

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20 minutes ago, elizabeth_mckenzie said:

the loss of the old features means this product no longer does what I need it to do.

What specific missing features do you "need it to do"   
For me, I need Applescript integration (Mac)   
Other than that, I'm willing to make workflow adjustments

The Version 10 product is still a work-in-progress.  I'll make a decision when the work is completed, or the Legacy product no longer functions

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The loss of local notebooks makes it unusable for me because of confidentiality issues.  But also the limitation of fonts makes it unwieldy for use with other programs.  Copying, pasting, and reformatting isn't something I want to do all the time.  Removal of the Outlook Clipper and the inability to email into Evernote surprised me.  Maybe the thing that surprised me most was the removal of presentation mode.

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43 minutes ago, elizabeth_mckenzie said:

The loss of local notebooks makes it unusable for me because of confidentiality issues. 

For confidentiality, I can use encryption   
I can also move attachment files external to Evernote; replaced with a file link (currently a problem in v10)

>>the limitation of fonts makes it unwieldy for use with other programs

I don't understand the "for use with other programs"
I'm not much of a font user but fonts are preserved when I paste text into Evernote

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Right now, with the legacy version, I can format my notes in whatever font I plan to use on the document I'm going to create from that note.  Fonts are limited to I think 5 in the new version and it hampers a lot of people, including coders.  It's one of the main reasons I've been a paying customer of Evernote.  If I'm copying something from a note I've made in the new version of Evernote, I would have to reformat it from their font in Word or LibreOffice or whatever.  I could do that.  I could encrypt my notes in Evernote.  But I can't see any reason to pay to use Evernote at all if I need workarounds.

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4 hours ago, elizabeth_mckenzie said:

Evernote is a product, not a religion. [...] I'm not canceling out of revenge.  I wish them well.  They simply are no longer selling a product I care to buy.

Well, I recently came across this video detailing the original vision of EN. I never saw it back in the day, but it sums up what EN felt like for me - and doesn't anymore. Today's Evernote? I do not wish them well, nor do I wish them evil. I wish they would revisit the visionary approach from back then instead of trying to become the zillionth collaborative project management tool. 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, elizabeth_mckenzie said:

Evernote is a product, not a religion.  I've been using it on Windows, Mac, Android, and iOS since 2013 because it did what I needed it to do and it was useful enough to justify the expense.  So far, all I've heard from Evernote is how the new, improved version will help them by causing them less work.  None of the few new features helps me in any way, and the loss of the old features means this product no longer does what I need it to do.  My renewal comes up in January.  Why would I spend money on a product I don't like?  I'm not canceling out of revenge.  I wish them well.  They simply are no longer selling a product I care to buy.

Nice to have a grown up in the conversation.

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Well...I've waited and received no reply from EN about the reduction in essential functions.  So, I have e-mailed them a refund request for my Premium Subscription that renewed for the 10th time back in September.  

I understand they have a no refund policy.  However, I paid for a product that I have used for years.  They took that product away and handed a new release that is not as functional as the product I purchased.  The "Legacy" version is not as functional as the previous version was either.  It still has the look and feel, but some of the functionality is gone.  Also, they plainly state they will not be supporting the Legacy version.  Why should we pay for a non-supported product?

So, since they took the product I purchased away, they should willingly offer a refund.

IF they were to restore the full functionality of the old version into the new version, it may be worth staying with EN.  Two essential functions for my daily workflow are "Tabs" and "Preferences" settings.  The new version has no way to turn off the auto-list feature.  I do not use that feature in my work flow, because it does not fit me.

If they cannot restore the previous level of functionality, then another app may be necessary.

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On 11/19/2020 at 6:17 AM, wbutchart said:

I’m absolutely not cancelling my subscription! Cancel to use what? There’s none that come near Evernote in practice. I’ll wait things out, personally I think Ian Small and the team are on the right track, have mistakes been made - absolutely, but it is what it is. 

What a stupid response to stupid updates. You make the Evernote team lazy and lazier. Stop licking up their product even though they ruin every function. I even cannot log-in to the legacy old version neither. Happy to leaning on this app?

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On 11/18/2020 at 4:17 PM, wbutchart said:

I’m absolutely not cancelling my subscription! Cancel to use what? There’s none that come near Evernote in practice. I’ll wait things out, personally I think Ian Small and the team are on the right track, have mistakes been made - absolutely, but it is what it is. 

You may be correct as to other options.  However, I am looking at Notion for the possible future.  It flawlessly imports all EV notebooks, notes and tags.  It also offers a more customizable user interface.  Yet, there are some functions that Notion does not offer, like searching a PDF or Image for text.  It's web clipper is also not as full as EN.

So, if EN would simply address the issues, it may offer hope for longtime EN Premium users to stay.  However, at least for me, they appear to be silent.  I cannot get them to respond to e-mails or support tickets.  They need to openly address the time frame for restoring the various requested features.  Right now, we do not no when, or if ever, they will be restored.

Personally, I would rather stay with EN.  I have thousands of notes.  Yet, I must know that the full functionality will be restored.

 

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4 minutes ago, Pastor Wynn said:

Well...I've waited and received no reply from EN about the reduction in essential functions.  So, I have e-mailed them a refund request for my Premium Subscription that renewed for the 10th time back in September.  

I understand they have a no refund policy.  However, I paid for a product that I have used for years.  They took that product away and handed a new release that is not as functional as the product I purchased.  The "Legacy" version is not as functional as the previous version was either.  It still has the look and feel, but some of the functionality is gone.  Also, they plainly state they will not be supporting the Legacy version.  Why should we pay for a non-supported product?

So, since they took the product I purchased away, they should willingly offer a refund.

IF they were to restore the full functionality of the old version into the new version, it may be worth staying with EN.  Two essential functions for my daily workflow are "Tabs" and "Preferences" settings.  The new version has no way to turn off the auto-list feature.  I do not use that feature in my work flow, because it does not fit me.

If they cannot restore the previous level of functionality, then another app may be necessary.

I have done it but because I renewed through Apple, so I requested through there and stated the product was not within my expectations, and Apple allowed me to get back the money.

I do strongly recommend others to get the refund, especially if you have renewed through Apple no more than three months you are eligible to do that. (I am not sure if Google Play and Windows Store can have this policy) I don't think I am taking revenge on the company, but users who don't think it has met their expectations can have a right to act. Especially after we have tried every means to communicate with the company. After we provided sincere suggestions. For years.

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8 hours ago, Pastor Wynn said:

You may be correct as to other options.  However, I am looking at Notion for the possible future.  It flawlessly imports all EV notebooks, notes and tags.  It also offers a more customizable user interface.  Yet, there are some functions that Notion does not offer, like searching a PDF or Image for text.  It's web clipper is also not as full as EN.

So, if EN would simply address the issues, it may offer hope for longtime EN Premium users to stay.  However, at least for me, they appear to be silent.  I cannot get them to respond to e-mails or support tickets.  They need to openly address the time frame for restoring the various requested features.  Right now, we do not no when, or if ever, they will be restored.

Personally, I would rather stay with EN.  I have thousands of notes.  Yet, I must know that the full functionality will be restored.

 

HI there, I have tried notion, my issue with it is it is so very clunky, it seems to do so much that to do the basics is more complicated.  My biggest issues is notions, for me, unfathomable tagging system which isnt universal, i am yet to understand what it is or what its purpose is, which is part of my on going frustrations with it.  

Evernotes silence is frustrating but they are updating versions quickly and hopefully stablising things as they go.  Can i ask what it is about the new version that is causing you frustrations?

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10 hours ago, Alvin C said:

Especially after we have tried every means to communicate with the company. After we provided sincere suggestions. For years.

I've been doing that with Ford for ages,  but do we see a 6-wheel SUV?  Oh no.  Corporates can be so unreasonable...

1 hour ago, wbutchart said:

it seems to do so much that to do the basics is more complicated.

 Notion is great and can do so much;  but if you already have one job it's distracting to have to learn another speciality before you can get back to it.  Like a concert pianist looking for a new instrument and being given an axe and shown a tree...

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3 hours ago, wbutchart said:

Can i ask what it is about the new version that is causing you frustrations?

There are two "essentials" for my workflow, that the new EN no longer has.  (1)  Preferences Settings.  The new EN has been completely stripped of the preferences.  In the old version, I could turn off the "auto list" feature.  The new version does not have that option.  When I type a numeral, followed by a period, I do not want an auto indented list to begin.  This is a deal-breaker for me.   (2)  Tabs.  While this may not be a big deal for a lot of users, it is a function that is part of my daily workflow.  I use EN as my daily task list planner, and I always have a tab open with that note.  Yes, there is a work around, but we should not have to do a work around, since the function was once there.  If they bring back those two "essentials" for me, I would not be considering finding another platform.

Also, as with many app designers today, the newer version appears to an attempt to duplicate a mobile version.  I am aware that many users are totally mobile in their usage.  However, I believe there are still a great number of users that use either a laptop or desktop for their main business work.  Also, most mobile versions of apps are not as fully functional as a desktop app.  That is true of most developers.  I am not sure as to why the developers believe a mobile version should be less functional than a non-mobile version.

Thanks for the conversation.

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1 minute ago, Pastor Wynn said:

There are two "essentials" for my workflow, that the new EN no longer has.  (1)  Preferences Settings.  The new EN has been completely stripped of the preferences.  In the old version, I could turn off the "auto list" feature.  The new version does not have that option.  When I type a numeral, followed by a period, I do not want an auto indented list to begin.  This is a deal-breaker for me.   (2)  Tabs.  While this may not be a big deal for a lot of users, it is a function that is part of my daily workflow.  I use EN as my daily task list planner, and I always have a tab open with that note.  Yes, there is a work around, but we should not have to do a work around, since the function was once there.  If they bring back those two "essentials" for me, I would not be considering finding another platform.

Also, as with many app designers today, the newer version appears to an attempt to duplicate a mobile version.  I am aware that many users are totally mobile in their usage.  However, I believe there are still a great number of users that use either a laptop or desktop for their main business work.  Also, most mobile versions of apps are not as fully functional as a desktop app.  That is true of most developers.  I am not sure as to why the developers believe a mobile version should be less functional than a non-mobile version.

Thanks for the conversation.

Sounds fair, I think preferences are a priority for return and hopefully the techies are reading what we are saying and taking notes. I’ve always been more focused around mobile and windows, I don’t even know if the windows version ever had tabs, I am perhaps a bit basic in my use, as long as tabs work and I can write from custom templates I am more than ok.
 

It’s worth noting that the same tech being used to write the new Evernote is the same platform that notion uses too, electron, so it seems more than powerful enough for our needs, we just need it to get there, quickly with minimal destruction. 

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12 hours ago, Pastor Wynn said:

You may be correct as to other options.  However, I am looking at Notion for the possible future.  It flawlessly imports all EV notebooks, notes and tags.  It also offers a more customizable user interface.  

 

As for importing notes, be careful. Notion does auto detect tables and takes them over to their own format - this butchers some notes like emails sent in html format and similar stuff. 

I really like notion, have been using it for some time now. But for my purposes, it is not an EN replacement. No way to store all data locally, no API (yet) and therefore no way to automate things, no indexing of document / image content. 

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I'll certainly look into it.  It's amazing to have a paid subscription (not a corporate one, since I'm a semi-retired academic) and no access to any EverNote tech support.  Their latest "update" trashed a number of features.  I have used it to store jpg files to incorporate into my lectures, but now there's no longer a cut & paste option.  The search function has also been trashed.  You can't search within a notebook (you're forced to search all notebooks) but even then, it won't  search, even the titles, never mind content.

Thanks Chronistin for the tip on Notes.  There are many, many options -- and I'll bet they even work!  I've been looking at OneNote.  I don't need a huge menu of functonality, just the ability to store, search, retrieve, while using maybe a dozen notebooks.

Anybody know how to cancel an account; I think I still have 6 or 8 months left on my subscription, and then I'm outta here.

Best wishes to all.  Looks like we all tried, but EverNote failed us.

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I currently have nine (9) issues open with Evernote support re problems with Evernote 10.  Every single one of them results in greatly decreased productivity for me and my colleagues. So far I have not received a productive response to any of them; nothing beyond formulaic replies. The net effect is so bad that I've dropped back to Evernote 7.14 until they're resolved.  

But that's not a long-term solution:  Evernote 7.14 is already unavailable on some Big Sur installs, and that situation is only going to get worse.

So what are my alternatives?  What exactly am I supposed to do to motivate Evernote to resolve this?

It's a New Coke situation:  The company's new strategy is greatly disliked by a significant fraction of the user base.  If they persist, the costs will be large.  But they really believe in their strategy.  In the case of New Coke, only a quarter's work of bad financials finally got the message through and through brought back Coke Classic.  (It took years for New Coke to die, but die it did)

It would be fine with me if the company created New Evernote and Evernote Classic.  I'd be fine to pay a subscription designated to pay for support and development of Evernote Classic.  

But, unless the situation changes, I'm not going to pay for another year of New Evernote.

The question is whether to make that distinction clear to the company now, in this quarter, via their financials.  I'll give them another couple weeks to see what they say, but if there isn't really progress, I'm going to cancel my existing subscription and drop back to a lower level along with a certified letter to the company president.  Hopefully that'll convey a message.

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6 hours ago, chronistin said:

As for importing notes, be careful. Notion does auto detect tables and takes them over to their own format - this butchers some notes like emails sent in html format and similar stuff. 

I really like notion, have been using it for some time now. But for my purposes, it is not an EN replacement. No way to store all data locally, no API (yet) and therefore no way to automate things, no indexing of document / image content. 

My solution is to store all of the data I need offline in markdown format and access it with the Atom Editor.  Atom is also an Electron app...in fact Atom Shell became Electron.

I just export the folders I need from Notion, rename them, and set each one up as a project folder in Atom.

It reads the markdown files just fine and has a very good directory structure.  The search function is decent.  

You can also export as HTML and open in a browser.  It creates a directory page with all of the files and links to each individual page.  Very slick!

 

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