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Is the new Evernote supposed to run this slow?


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I wanted to delete 31 records. It took 30 seconds.

What was obvious was that it was issuing a command to delete a record on the remote site, which was done, and then the confirmation was sent back to me, and then the program told it to deleted the second note, which was done on the remote site, and then confirmation...

You get the idea.  This new Evernote does NOTHING locally, and that means a lot of tasks will take a LOT longer than before. I pity the person who needs to re-tag or untag several hundred notes.

Seriously, is it possible to rollback to a localized version?

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1 hour ago, TheMagicWombat said:

It took 30 seconds.

As far as the speed concerns goes, a lot of people in the forums are sharing the same concern and having similar issues. I know I am not happy with the speed for sure. My 6.25 is so much faster compared to V10 so it is hard to justify the upgrade when you know how fast you used to work with the app.

I sure hope it will get way better but since it is an Electron app, there are concerns around the speed not ever matching the legacy app with the local database files. I guess time will tell. There are experts on Electron apps here, they can tell way more than I can.

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2 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

TY. I found it and did some testing.

Legacy time to delete and then restore 32 notes: 1 second to delete, 1 second to restore.

Evernote 10 time to delete 32 notes: 42 seconds.  I didn't waste my time trying the restore. 

 

All multi-note operations are painfully slow. Even adding the same tag to a group of notes. I expect it scales linearly with the number of notes but somehow it seems much slower than that.

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4 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Legacy time to delete and then restore 32 notes: 1 second to delete, 1 second to restore.

Evernote 10 time to delete 32 notes: 42 seconds.  I didn't waste my time trying the restore. 

I have had the same experience and found it untenable. I am human, I make mistakes and I expect a note taking app to allow me to fix it quickly. Ctrl-z is my best friend. Notions database rollback has saved my neck many times. 

In this forum, the problem Evernote 10 lack of native apps and local data has been discussed regularly. We wish to synch the data (preferably end-to-end encryption) but we expect it to be there when we need it. 
The unsupported Legacy has been presented to cover the inadequacies of Evernote 10. 

Some in the forums have found a safe haven in another app that they use in conjunction with Evernote. For Mac DevonThink is popular. 

For those using a PC ("In October, Windows was the OS on 88.8% of all PCs worldwide, up one-tenth of a percentage point from September," according to  U.S. analytics vendor Net Applications, 09 November 2020) the choice is more difficult, not least because the new entrants overcome platform and device divides by cloud data, and browser / Electron apps.

The hardware has never been so good as what we have today but the performance of the apps is largely indifferent to the hardware capability of the devices we use. 

So we wait and wait and wait...

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20 hours ago, Mike P said:

All multi-note operations are painfully slow. Even adding the same tag to a group of notes. I expect it scales linearly with the number of notes but somehow it seems much slower than that.

I had the same measurements even with disconnected network, 1 note per second ?!?!? How can you achieve that on a modern high end PC? There must be a built in delay maybe 😏

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Evernote is loading painfully slow - every time I switch between any note I get this error. This happens on two different computers and regardless of what wifi connection I use.

Will the new update get faster or will it always run this slowly?

Screen Shot 2020-11-11 at 12.09.41 PM.png

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On 11/11/2020 at 12:14 PM, JDW90 said:

Evernote is loading painfully slow - every time I switch between any note I get this error. This happens on two different computers and regardless of what wifi connection I use.

Will the new update get faster or will it always run this slowly?

Let me put it this way--they HAD to have had people test drive this version, and it was given the green light as it was. If Evernote has displayed one constant throughout its entire life, it is this:

The Devs don't care. 

So, because speeding up the process of this 100% cloud-based fiasco would require ANOTHER complete re-write of the code, you can 100% expect all future releases to be this slow. 

And if you, like a lot of users, can't use the new version because it is the slowest database program to ever have been written, remember this:

The Devs don't care. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

10.5 seems to be faster which is nice but not as fast as the V6.25. I wonder how close can it get with the Electron base??

My issue is with the remote desktop Evernote, for some reason 10.5 over there is still as slow as when it was first released. So I still have to keep the Legacy version for work since we use the remote desktop to access all the apps we use. 

I wonder why the remote desktop version is not working for me.

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  • 1 month later...

Same here. I'm very disappointed with the product. I'll try to get a refund for my recent premium subscription. I thought it would be useful for my searching projects, but it's a nightmare at this speed.

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I hope Evernote is listening. Are you? The new version is a deal killer. Seriously. I get a failure to download error every time I open a new note. Typing inputs are slow. The comments I see across the platforms say the same. I had none of these problems until I updated to Evernote 10. I just went back to the legacy version to get basic functionality back. But this is not a solution.  Is there a solution or one coming  - we need to know! 

In a short amount of time, I will have to switch because if this issue is not addressed because functionally there will be no update in the future for me. Onenote is calling. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Electron base, really? That explains why it is so relentlessly slow even on my macbook pro with 16gb and 200Mbps optical line! 

It seems that these days I am spending more time on the internet searching for answers trying to somehow justify my frustration on how Evernote has gone from one of the few products that I always thought was worth paying for, to a product design that sacrifices productivity and usability over cross-platform maintainability.  

So far this new version has so many negative aspects that greatly outweigh the positive that this is the first time since 2012, premium subscriber, that I am seriously considering abandoning Evernote for good!  

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

What a disappointment this update is. The recent update to the Android app is similarly painful. Somehow Evernote doesn't realize that speed isn't just an incremental difference in a note taking app. If everything is sluggish, it becomes just unusable as the sort of 'brain extension' many of us have become accustomed to.

I fear that having spent the time developing this whole rewrite, sunk cost fallacy will cause them to sick with it, rather than realizing that local data and native apps were a critical aspect of their success, and that's where the focus needs to be. Yes, obviously, it's more efficient if you can have a single app with thin wrappers for each platform. But if that causes the performance to be garbage it's penny wise, pound foolish.

I rely so much on evernote, I've really resisted looking for alternatives. But I feel like they're leaving me no choice.

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On 2/15/2021 at 12:44 PM, Anthony G said:

Electron base, really? That explains why it is so relentlessly slow even on my macbook pro with 16gb and 200Mbps optical line! 

It seems that these days I am spending more time on the internet searching for answers trying to somehow justify my frustration on how Evernote has gone from one of the few products that I always thought was worth paying for, to a product design that sacrifices productivity and usability over cross-platform maintainability.  

So far this new version has so many negative aspects that greatly outweigh the positive that this is the first time since 2012, premium subscriber, that I am seriously considering abandoning Evernote for good!  

 

Totally agree! Think about the same. The new Evernote is slow like a snail.

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On 2/27/2021 at 4:25 PM, Nathan T said:

sunk cost fallacy will cause them to sick with it

Good point. One of the fallacies we all fall into one time or more in our lives.

Similarly, sunk cost fallacy may also make me stick with Evernote too since I have so much time and data invested in it too. I really hope the speed issue eventually gets resolved.

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  • 4 months later...
16 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

My v10 runs pretty normal on my Mac and on my iOS devices.

Of course I am not everyone ...

Take 100 records and add a dummy tag to them. Time how long it takes Evernote to complete the task. When the new version was released, it was taking an average of 1 second per tag modification.... or moving records to a different folder.  Thus, for an individual record, you might not notice the slowdown because each modification you make takes about a second. But when you decide to move stuff around in bulk... Well, best to go make a sammich while Evernote modifies the first record, then the second, then the third...

The problem is that because the new Evernote has your data sitting on the Evernote servers, every change you makes follows this protocol:

1. You make the change

2. Your local incarnation of Evernote spits the change out to your ISP.

3. Your ISP sends the change through all the hops to get to the Evernote server.

4. The Evernote server open that record

5. The Evernote server processes the change for that record

6. The Evernote server then tells its ISP to tell your web browser that the data was updated.

7. Evernote's ISP sends the package through all the hops back to your ISP

8. Your ISP sends the information back to your local Evernote incarnation.

9. Your local Evernote incarnation gets the info from your ISP and

10. You are free to do new work in Evernote.

Now, that isn't too slow, but when you modify a bunch of records, the process is 1-9 for the first record, THEN 1-9 for the second record, THEN 1-9 for the third record, and so on. Thus, on the test I ran it took 35 seconds to re-tag 30 records. 

That is INSANELY slow.

And why I am using Evernote Legacy on my PC, and the new Evernote on my phone. (Since all I do is jot notes on my phone.)

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4 hours ago, Jahangir said:

Agree with everyone on slowness of the new version. Please solve this!

Yeah... Right after we get nested notebooks... The problem is in the design of the new Evernote and the fact that the data is NOT sitting on your local machine. You are literally operating off of the Evernote servers unless you use Evernote Legacy.

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On 3/2/2021 at 8:17 AM, TK0047 said:

Good point. One of the fallacies we all fall into one time or more in our lives.

Similarly, sunk cost fallacy may also make me stick with Evernote too since I have so much time and data invested in it too. I really hope the speed issue eventually gets resolved.

The ONLY reason I stay with Evernote is the way it clips web pages. Get a competitor to do that as well, or better, and I am gone. 

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10 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Thus, on the test I ran it took 35 seconds to re-tag 30 records. 
 

On my windows PC, this test takes 14 seconds. With disconnected network it takes 8 seconds. So, nobody stops you from working locally by disconnecting your network for a while, except that it takes a long time to synchronize later on but even then you can still work further in parallel with the sync.

Edit: I have a 200 Mbit connection

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14 hours ago, eric99 said:

On my windows PC, this test takes 14 seconds. With disconnected network it takes 8 seconds. So, nobody stops you from working locally by disconnecting your network for a while, except that it takes a long time to synchronize later on but even then you can still work further in parallel with the sync.

Edit: I have a 200 Mbit connection

First off, I am glad they have improved times to... 1987 levels. Seriously, I had a database program on my Commodore 128 in 1987 that could re-tag records faster than that. Also, you could be using a 56K modem and it would still be that same time as your 200 Mbit. The bottleneck is the back and forth confirmation of EACH change with dozens of hops per. 

And, do you realize what you just suggested as a fix?

1. Disconnect yourself form the Internet...

The fix is 100% to UNDO the changes they made with Evernote by giving your PC a lobotomy.

Methinks Legacy is a MUCH better option. But, I believe in everyone uses the solution that works best for them. If disconnecting your PC from the internet works best for you, that is a valid choice. Admittedly, Legacy doesn't have that fancy new To-Do add-on that the Evernote team is just BEAMING about... 

...even though it is redundant with the dated follow-ups that Evernote already had :)

 

PS. Eight seconds to retag 30 records makes glaciers look like Quicksilver...

 

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Tried many note taking apps over the period, but I must admit that I keep coming back to Evernote. Thanks to EN 10.x, I am again thinking of moving to another app :(

I am a premium subscriber to Notion and Nimbus, but both of them lack something or the other. I hate to say this, but I might end up moving to OneNote !!

Evernote Devs - pls make it fast somehow soon!

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6 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

First off, I am glad they have improved times to... 1987 levels. Seriously, I had a database program on my Commodore 128 in 1987 that could re-tag records faster than that. Also, you could be using a 56K modem and it would still be that same time as your 200 Mbit. The bottleneck is the back and forth confirmation of EACH change with dozens of hops per. 

And, do you realize what you just suggested as a fix?

1. Disconnect yourself form the Internet...

The fix is 100% to UNDO the changes they made with Evernote by giving your PC a lobotomy.

Methinks Legacy is a MUCH better option. But, I believe in everyone uses the solution that works best for them. If disconnecting your PC from the internet works best for you, that is a valid choice. Admittedly, Legacy doesn't have that fancy new To-Do add-on that the Evernote team is just BEAMING about... 

...even though it is redundant with the dated follow-ups that Evernote already had :)

 

PS. Eight seconds to retag 30 records makes glaciers look like Quicksilver...

 

It was certainly not my intention to defend this extremely slow database behavior, I just wanted to add some objective measurements from my system. I'm certainly not happy with these measurements, even with a 200 MBit connection it is still impossible to get good performance.

The measurement with disconnected network was intended to proof that this is not caused by the network traffic alone. There is a serious problem with the local 'database' (I'm afraid there is no real database at all, just a bunch of files or something like that).

As you already mentioned, 40 years ago we had database applications that were 100 - 1000 times faster than this on a 8 bit processor with a 1 MHz clock!

The problem is that developers keep stacking abstraction layers on layers on layers for no reason... Nobody understands the full picture anymore. Electron is the result of this kind of programming...

Disconnecting the network is the only work around available. Obviously, it would be much better if EN  restores the sync button functionality, including sync options configuration ( background sync for instance). This makes it possible to prevent the encryption leak as well (still a work around but better than keeping  the unencrypted text somewhere in the history on the EN servers)

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17 hours ago, akedia said:

Tried many note taking apps over the period, but I must admit that I keep coming back to Evernote. Thanks to EN 10.x, I am again thinking of moving to another app :(

I am a premium subscriber to Notion and Nimbus, but both of them lack something or the other. I hate to say this, but I might end up moving to OneNote !!

Evernote Devs - pls make it fast somehow soon!

The Evernote Devs are like a honey badger--they just don't care. 

There have been a whole SLEW of changes that users have been asking for years now, and the response has always been the same: "We know better than you how you should be working. Do it our way and you will thank us later."

Because they have never had the profits they hoped for, they recently decided to cut development costs by nerfing ALL platforms down to the lowest common denominator (See Also: Procrustes). Every platform lost features, upsetting long time users. And you know how much Evernote cared?

As much as a honey badger. 

They have implemented a change and sent out press releases saying that it is an improvement--it doesn't matter how much those changes slowed down their product--they will never, ever, change it back. 

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First observation: You are using the free plan (which is OK), and you are very opinionated about the creators of the product you use free of charge. Ever thought about what this tells about yourself ? It crosses my mind to believe you think good code is falling from the sky, and the devs are only there to reduce the stock of coffee and pizza.

Second Observation: A superior product is not designed by asking users what they want to have. You likely end up with a product that is a hodgepodge of your competitors worst ideas, all in one app. I think a superior product should serve a focussed set of use cases with real life application, better than anybody else. One may argue about the way v10 tries to do this, but at least they try.

Third observation: The discussion is biassed by nostalgia. Oh yes, anybody wants a new product, but please with exactly the same features we had before. I don't think that feature parity with the prior release is a sound measure for the qualities of a new version of a software. What I feel is important is use cases, and how they are supported. Again one can argue about v10 in this respect (printing, scripting, etc.), but the goal is not necessarily feature parity.

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46 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

First observation: You are using the free plan (which is OK), and you are very opinionated about the creators of the product you use free of charge. Ever thought about what this tells about yourself ? It crosses my mind to believe you think good code is falling from the sky, and the devs are only there to reduce the stock of coffee and pizza.

Second Observation: A superior product is not designed by asking users what they want to have. You likely end up with a product that is a hodgepodge of your competitors worst ideas, all in one app. I think a superior product should serve a focussed set of use cases with real life application, better than anybody else. One may argue about the way v10 tries to do this, but at least they try.

Third observation: The discussion is biassed by nostalgia. Oh yes, anybody wants a new product, but please with exactly the same features we had before. I don't think that feature parity with the prior release is a sound measure for the qualities of a new version of a software. What I feel is important is use cases, and how they are supported. Again one can argue about v10 in this respect (printing, scripting, etc.), but the goal is not necessarily feature parity.

1. Paid for the Premium for two years. Realized they were NEVER going to improve the product, and realized the ONLY thing it did well was clip web pages.

2. This product runs SLOWER than my first database program on my Commodore 128 back in 1987. Pretty sad when you product is so slow one pines for the lethargic speeds of 25 years ago. 

3. Trying and failing--nay, making the product worse--is actually worse than not trying.  

4. A good product is not designed by giving users what they say they want, that is true. But a business that does not solve a customer's problems has just lost that customer. 

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  • 1 month later...
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It is not difficult to run a little database fast on nearly any computing machine, even a Commodore back then in the 80ies. No graphical overhead, lean code, structured data, not really THAT much data (because neither RAM nor disks allowed for it). So thanks for a little pure nostalgia, doesn't prove a thing.

EN runs fine on many devices. I just installed it in a Win10 virtual machine on my Mac, running on the bare minimum of only 2 cores. There it begins to get slow, no doubt. What would I do if I had only this ? Logical alternative, take the web client. It is close to feature parity to the desktop client.

With the web client I can run EN v10 with sufficient performance even on my little Raspberry Pi 4. That is a 60€ microcomputer with a small ARM CPU - running EN in a browser window. Not bad at all, if you are restricted by your hardware.

IMHO there are solutions if one is looking for them - others only try to find the next "impossible", one may think when reading some posts here.

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59 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

It is not difficult to run a little database fast on nearly any computing machine, even a Commodore back then in the 80ies. No graphical overhead, lean code, structured data, not really THAT much data (because neither RAM nor disks allowed for it). So thanks for a little pure nostalgia, doesn't prove a thing.

EN runs fine on many devices. I just installed it in a Win10 virtual machine on my Mac, running on the bare minimum of only 2 cores. There it begins to get slow, no doubt. What would I do if I had only this ? Logical alternative, take the web client. It is close to feature parity to the desktop client.

With the web client I can run EN v10 with sufficient performance even on my little Raspberry Pi 4. That is a 60€ microcomputer with a small ARM CPU - running EN in a browser window. Not bad at all, if you are restricted by your hardware.

IMHO there are solutions if one is looking for them - others only try to find the next "impossible", one may think when reading some posts here.

By all means, explain how updating tags is graphics intensive. (And mind you, it must be pretty intensive because this is the same PC I use to play Fallout 76's Nuclear Winter campaigns in widescreen!)

No, I am sorry, that was pure mean of me. We both know that updating tags requires precisely ZERO graphical overhead, and is slllllllllloooooowwww........

As such, it was grossly unfair of me to ask you to explain something that cannot be explained by your theory.

But, in fairness, we both also know that the "graphical overhead" that Evernote has is about the same "graphical overhead" that Windows uses when it is sitting at the desktop doing nothing. (Come on--the next time you try and BS someone, be more creative--blaming the slowness of Evernote on its graphics is like blaming a Volkswagen Bug's slow 1/4-mile speed on the fact that the car is so heavy! (You remember the VW bug--it was the car that actually floated.))

We presented out test criteria--and everyone in here but you has pretty much agreed the new client is a slow because none of the work is hosted locally unless you manually disconnect form the internet. Changing a single record is fairly quick--a second or so. But try shifting around a moderately sized database, and you might as well go do some yoga while the remote servers get everything done ONE record at a time. And we all agree that switching back to Legacy solved the problem. 

And if Evernote runs good enough for you---Bully for you!

But do not try and come in here and try to convince the rest of us that New Evernote isn't as slow as molasses in the 9th Circle. We have Evernote Legacy, and it speeds along with the SAME "graphical overhead" as the the "new" Evernote. 

We know what works, and we know what fails. 

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On 8/20/2021 at 3:51 AM, TheMagicWombat said:

But try shifting around a moderately sized database, and you might as well go do some yoga while the remote servers get everything done ONE record at a time. And we all agree that switching back to Legacy solved the problem.

There seems to be light at the end of the tunnel for performance improvements of bulk actions:

 

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8 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

I've been with Evernote for too many years... *when* they fix it, I'll be happy. In the meantime--Legacy is faster.

I'm confident that EN will keep Legacy alive till the performance and the related 50 notes limit are fixed

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21 hours ago, eric99 said:

There seems to be light at the end of the tunnel for performance improvements of bulk actions:

 

Hopefully, the light isn't an oncoming train. If they are looking at bulk actions, they're looking in the wrong place. It isn't that moving 10 notes takes 50 seconds, it's that moving one note takes 5 seconds. Yes, it would be nice if moving the 10 notes took less time, but not if moving one is just as slow. Imagine a word processor where every keystroke got backed up the cloud. That's not how it's worked. Ever. 

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The radical times people are reporting for basic actions, and the fact that the times differ by so much, indicates to me that the Evernote servers are being stressed hard during some time periods. I suspect they did not consider what moving their software to not merely cloud-based, but cloud-intrinsic per action, would have on their server load and response times. 

Additionally, why? Why would any company take a perfectly useful piece of software that incurred no server load on their part, and make it into something cloud-based that must respond to our client every action? That is does zero to consume less CPU at our end, but instead creates a MASSIVE overhead for them. 

Why incur the additional grief?

It is obviously not for the benefit of the users.

And that means it is exclusively for their benefit. 

I mean, I'll be candid--I can't envision taking years of research and placing it on their servers in their proprietary format. They could announce tomorrow that Evernote is no longer free at any level, and starting 2 hours ago, all access to Evernote requires a quarterly subscription plan.  Yes, I am probably being paranoid. Maybe. But I can think of no benign reason for  company to want to relocate all your computing and database storage onto their servers that doesn't involve locking you into their services.  

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AFAIK there is a simple reason for the cloud based approach. EN v10 was developed based on an underlying framework. The framework takes away the necessity to adapt the app to the operating system - making development and maintenance of the app much simpler.

The framework is basically a (Chromium) browser, without a front end. Since it is based on browser technology, it runs on the cloud server.

From what I see on different devices, the EN server is up to the job. But it has a dependency on the internet connection, which may have different speeds (especially on local WiFi), and the framework itself is devouring the local machines resources.

No question legacy was faster - but it had come to a standstill concerning development and stability. Sticking with legacy IMHO was only theoretically an option - practically it would have doomed EN to slide into oblivion.

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How can software come to a standstill concerning stability? Development--sure. All they have to do is decide not to develop it. But stability? I don't recall a single time Evernote on any of my platforms has crashed.  The only reason that stability becomes an issue is when the company just decides they want to abandon a platform. 

But, that is up to them. However...

I know they said they wanted to make the program web-based, arguing that they could then standardize the interface for all users. But  that doesn't really address the core issue--why move the database to remote storage? I have a slew of cloud-based programs that store all my data--and databases--right here on my PC.  Moving the database to a remote site will, 100% of the time, slow down the program. No web-based program can ever run across the internet and then write to the server and then spit the information back over the internet to my machine as fast at my computer can communicate with its own hard drive. 

The "software" and the database do not need to both exist on the same machine. I have software that is web-based where I can load in remote databases. 

There are lots of reasons to not move our databases to the cloud. There are no good reasons to require they be moved there. Even if they wanted to say, "You stupid users don't do back-ups well enough so we are going to back-up for you!" that would leave us back to where we were with Legacy--syncing when we close, or open, or decide to. 

The fact is that moving the software AND the database to remote storage means we as consumers are dependent upon the Evernote servers staying up and running and free IF we use their cloud-based product. Conversely, if an alien race scooped up the Evernote servers tonight, I--because I am using Legacy--could still be happily, and quickly, using Evernote Legacy tomorrow. 

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  • Level 5

There are major OS releases every 6 months on Windows, every 12 month on Mac. Both mobile platforms release every year.

And this is no small change: On Windows (leaving Enterprise level beside) only the last 4 releases of Win10 are officially supported. On Mac two OS releases ago all 32bit apps were disabled. The list goes on.

When you want to keep your app running for your customers, you need at least one major release every year - just to keep up. 

For a multi platform app like EN it is a big change when the OS changes are handled by the framework. A native app would be more efficient - not easy „best way“ here. But instead of probably dedicating 80% of the devs resources on keeping up, they now can invest much more than before into developing the app itself.

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I am more than willing to permit that moving the native app to the cloud was a wise move on their part.

But relocating the database?

No, that slows things down, invites errors in transit, increases their expense and headaches, and leaves users vulnerable to database loss. There is no good reason to do so--but I am sure they had one from their perspective. 

There is a reason why I don't use Google Drive to store my documents and datasets--and I fairly confident Google will be there tomorrow. 

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Ever did the repair routines on the local database of a legacy installation ?

Quite amazing what only a few months of use can produce in database mistakes. A design with 2 databases - one cloud, one local - can work - but only if the cloud is firmly in the lead - or the local one. Since EN performs mission critical services on the server holding the cloud master copy, a lead of a local database would have been no option.

You can have a look at DEVONthink as a comparison: They went the other way, making a local copy the lead database. This is a design concept there, as deeply ingrained as the cloud platform for EN. DT is Mac / iOS only, and not as heavy on syncing across devices as EN.

Looking at the basic layout of EN they probably took the right decision by practically eliminating the local database, only using it when offline. If you are worrying about your data in the cloud, use the export option. In these days when ransomware attacks happen every day, and NAS systems from leading makers like QNAP and Synology are permanently threatend, the dangers to the local data copy IMHO is much greater than the safety of the cloud copy.

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Sigh...

Flaw #1: If your database is corrupted locally, you simply pull out your archive copy and restore it.

Flaw #2: If it is actually corrupted and no back-up is viable. (i.e. long term corruption) you fix it yourself if it is locally stored. If it is remotely stored, Evernote gets to charge you whatever they want to repair it. And it is a given they will charge a hefty premium fee.

Flaw #3:  You state that because Evernote opted to place the database in the cloud, hosting it locally would not work. My response to that is DUH! The point isn't that it would be more difficult to have the database master copy in which ever location you prefer. (Just for argument's sake, I am not going to point out that Legacy Evernote actually had the database reside in both locates and was OOBER faster.) The problem is WHY they decided to take control of YOUR data out of your hands and place it in THEIR hands. 

Flaw #4. Legacy was faster. (I changed my mind--I am going to point it out.) The database was local and that sucker screamed along about 20 times as fast as the new Evernote. 

The problem is you are not looking at WHY they moved the database from local to remote. Instead, you are looking at the fact they moved it to remote, and then trying to justify why not having it in two locations makes sense. That does not in any way, shape, or form, look at the ultimate question I am posing:

WHY did they move it from local to remote:

1. When doing so massively slows down Evernote

2. Subjects us all to a grater risk of data loss (more hops means more possibility of errors...)

3. Subjects us to risk of data loss if the company shuts down (If Evernote goes belly up tomorrow, or is hit with an digital attack, *I* will have access to my data you will NOT have access to yours.)

4. Incurs far more expense and headaches on their end 

From a user standpoint (the only one *I* care about) there were no good reasons to move to remote databases, but there are some scary bad ones--not the least of which is that, as I have pointed out, Evernote could decide tomorrow that ALL access to Evernote if a monthly fee. Everyone who does not have Legacy already installed on the computers would be screwed. You would either have to have already saved your data in the trouble-prone HTML format, or you would be unable to access your data.

Gone!

*POOF*

And have you noticed how DIFFICULT they have made it to export your data? ONE folder at a time? They are ENCOURAGING bad habits by making a backup of your data a pain to do. 

But, you now what, if they throw the switch tomorrow *I* still have my database while YOU do not. 

I mean, get serious, ONE folder at a time??? They know the vast majority of users are not going to go through and backup their data in 20 operations each and every day. 

And so, if they decide tomorrow to charge you for access to your data, you have two choices:

1. Scream at the sky:

2. Pull out your credit card and pay their fee. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

making a local copy the lead database.

Evernote Legacy uses the local copy as the "lead database"

>>look at DEVONthink as a comparison   
Not sure it's valid to compare cloud and non-cloud services for data location

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Agree with the Wombat.  The only reason I was comfortable consigning so much critical data to Evernote when I first started using it years ago was because it was all stored locally, so I could keep my own incremental backups, and could extract my data if the company ever lost it or simply failed.

I would really prefer not to have to switch, because I've become quite accustomed to Evernote—it would be a significant undertaking to learn a new interface, and I'm sure I'd miss features, like the capability of the web clipper.  That said, given how buggy Evernote is, there's no way I'll trust it with the only copy of my data. So I guess if/when they do discontinue legacy support, I will have to go elsewhere.

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  • Level 5

Weird logic, based by faulty arguments is not search for truth. It is pure demagoguery.

Want an example: Legacy is 20 times faster ?!

OK, easy to test: My legacy takes 3 seconds to open on my Mac, v10 takes 5 seconds. Aha - 20 times …

Export: The ENEX export format (that is the format used by many note apps as import, which is the reason why it is used, not bad will by EN) does NOT contain the information about the notebook.

If one exports everything into one big ENEX file, the notes form later one big haystack. This is the reason why already with legacy only exporting notebook by notebook makes sense.

IMHO there is plain no need to run an export on a regular basis for a „backup“. Beside the fact that data is much safer on a professional cloud service than on any local drive: My database is mirrored locally on the drive, and is saved every hour by my TimeMachine to my network server.

The export is mainly used when one wants to leave EN. This is an one time effort, for which ENEX is the best format, because most other apps expect it to load data into their servers.

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1 hour ago, Nathan T said:

Agree with the Wombat.  The only reason I was comfortable consigning so much critical data to Evernote when I first started using it years ago was because it was all stored locally, so I could keep my own incremental backups, and could extract my data if the company ever lost it or simply failed.

I would really prefer not to have to switch, because I've become quite accustomed to Evernote—it would be a significant undertaking to learn a new interface, and I'm sure I'd miss features, like the capability of the web clipper.  That said, given how buggy Evernote is, there's no way I'll trust it with the only copy of my data. So I guess if/when they do discontinue legacy support, I will have to go elsewhere.

The lock-in that Evernote is doing with MY data and work is not something I can risk. I am already looking for an alternative.

On the plus side, Notion's web-clipper does not have all the bells and whistles of the Evernote one, but it is doing a good job so far. On the minus side--your Notion Database is stored remotely. That is akin to having every word document you have ever written stored ONLY on Micro$oft servers...

None of us would trust Micri$oft with our life's work, but these database companies expect us to trust them?

 

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  • Level 5

You will have a hard time to find any app that is not on the cloud trail. Notion - what a laugh, framework based plus cloud storage … a good service, but nothing if you are trying to leave EN for exactly these reasons.

There are some professional DMS systems (namely for professions that have some trouble to use cloud services, like lawyers and doctors), lacking the note taking part, and then only on the Apple ecosystem DEVONthink and - surprisingly - Apple Notes with a local storage only option. To wrap it up offers by the NAS makers like QNAP and Synology, stripped down compared to EN, but local storage only.

The feature combination offered by EN proves to be quite unique.

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1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Weird logic, based by faulty arguments is not search for truth. It is pure demagoguery.

Want an example: Legacy is 20 times faster ?!

OK, easy to test: My legacy takes 3 seconds to open on my Mac, v10 takes 5 seconds. Aha - 20 times …

Export: The ENEX export format (that is the format used by many note apps as import, which is the reason why it is used, not bad will by EN) does NOT contain the information about the notebook.

If one exports everything into one big ENEX file, the notes form later one big haystack. This is the reason why already with legacy only exporting notebook by notebook makes sense.

IMHO there is plain no need to run an export on a regular basis for a „backup“. Beside the fact that data is much safer on a professional cloud service than on any local drive: My database is mirrored locally on the drive, and is saved every hour by my TimeMachine to my network server.

The export is mainly used when one wants to leave EN. This is an one time effort, for which ENEX is the best format, because most other apps expect it to load data into their servers.

OMMFG!!!!

You CANNOT be serious!!!

You think OPENING the software is a major test????????????

We have been talking, at great length, about doing restructuring of our databases, and how inefficiently new Evernote does them ONE at a time here, then over the internet, then back to here for the next one, then over the internet!

Let's do a  REAL test!

1. Move 50 notes to a new Notebook. Jesus, I didn't think to time this because this wasn't going to be part of the test... I was going to do something more intensive. But... My God! This is taking forever. Should I go make a sammich? Do some web browsing? Maybe I'll watch some CNN videos... Come on.... Move them already. And... No. Not done yet. I could do a LOT of work in the time it is taking this remote database to simply move FIFTY LITTLE NOTES TO A NEW NOTEBOOK! Done. Finally.  WTF, let me move them to a NEW database and actually time it this time....

The time to move fifty records to a new folder?

ONE-HUNDRED AND FIFTY SIX SECONDS!!!!!

That is BEYOND HORRIBLE!!!!

I have over 900 files I want to move to a new folder. Because of how Evernote has moved the database from local to remote--apparently including on Legacy--the way I am going to have to do it is:

Tag fifty records (The Devs crippled the amount of records you can highlight at one time in an attempt to hide how SLOW the product is, so you can only select 50 records at a time.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

Tag another fifty records.

Move them.

Wait 156 seconds for Evernote to finish its remote database BS.

And then, finally finished, I will have waited  2,808 seconds for Evernote's time to move 900 records.

That is 46.8 MINUTES of time for Evernote to move 900 records to a new folder.

And I can't go do yoga during that time period, because every 2.5 minutes, *I* must manually select another 50 records and tell Evernote to move them.

Go ahead, explain how that isn't GLACIAL compared to having a local database. 

This should be MOST amusing!

 

PS. I won't even comment on how you think we should all trust the people that released this totally screwed-up remote storage system as being the people to trust our life's data with. That horse is so dead it doesn't even smell any more. 

 

PPS. Don't bring out the "graphic intensive" BS again either. The ONLY graphics that get displayed during a move of 50 records is the spinning arrow of "soon... maybe..." And, as I stated this machine has a SCREAMER video card for 3D games, and I use it to play FO76 Nuclear Winter matches.

 

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  • Level 5

At least you have had enough time for a cup of coffee, meanwhile.

For anything regarding massive note operations I use legacy. This is one of the reasons why it is still around, officially supported by EN for the few use cases that are not yet fully supported by v10. I think it was 2 or 3 weeks ago when I used it last, given that v10 now covers most of what a power user may need, and practically everything for the normal user.

If you need to move hundreds of notes every day, in my opinion you are no EN hero, it looks pretty disorganized to my eye. Most of my notes stay where they are, and receive or get stripped off tags.

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3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

At least you have had enough time for a cup of coffee, meanwhile.

For anything regarding massive note operations I use legacy. This is one of the reasons why it is still around, officially supported by EN for the few use cases that are not yet fully supported by v10. I think it was 2 or 3 weeks ago when I used it last, given that v10 now covers most of what a power user may need, and practically everything for the normal user.

If you need to move hundreds of notes every day, in my opinion you are no EN hero, it looks pretty disorganized to my eye. Most of my notes stay where they are, and receive or get stripped off tags.

And you will say anything to defend your beloved Evernote. First you blamed "graphics overhead", even though I am certain you knew that was horribly dishonest even as you wrote it. Then you decided that how many seconds before the splash screen went away was how fast a programs runs. Now? Now you are saying anyone doing anything more than your pitiful use of the software is no "Evernote Hero" (whatever the **** that is in your mind), and is horribly disorganized. 

And let's be honest--I don't have to to get a cup of coffee--I have time to get a cup of coffee 18 times in a row before those operations are over.

You have failed to demonstrate anything about Evernote's glacial speed other than you are happy with it. 

I get it--you LOVE Evernote. You'd marry it if you could. And the rest of us pointing out how horrible it has gotten compared to previous versions upsets you.

Go, use your program and don't CARE if we are abandoning it in droves. Just pretend we are not here, and you will be a lot happier. 

And on the plus side, many of us won't be here for long!

 

PS Silly me! I was so flabbergasted by how long it took NEW and IMPROVED Evernote to move 900 files that I forgot to test the Legacy Evernote times. I deeply apologize. Here are the COMPRATIVE results:

To move 900 files form one folder to another

NEW CLOUD BASED EVERNOTE:  46.8 minutes. (Done in groups of fifty, because that is the MOST number of files you can select in NEW CLOUD BASED EVERNOTE)

Legacy old broken down Evernote: 5.13 seconds. (Done in one motion, since you can highlight as many records as you got in Legacy.)

Final Ratio of how fast NEW Evernote is compared to OLD Evernote: New Evernote runs at 0.218% the speed of old Evernote. Or, put another way, Old Evernote runs 459 times FASTER than New Evernote.

 

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  • Level 5

While you write (must be the waiting time, sitting idle watching v10 move ahead) we all just got another release of v10.

Some new stuff (never available in legacy), some improvements of existing features (this time handling of links and other apps). I think they probably released more versions of v10 in less than a year than of all old clients in 5 years. You may remember (I certainly do) when EN was hardly keeping up with OS releases.

As I said, the full package is v10 plus legacy, so we can stop this discussion. You compare one part of a package with another part - both are available to all users, if they decide to use both. It is like opening the trunk of a car, complaining there is no engine. Or the hood, complaining there is no space. Look at the car, front to end ? You will always find an argument to prove something to yourself.

About that loving question: At the moment I love to listen to Dvořáks 7th symphony, because that is what I am listening to. In an open EN window, full screen, directly playing the embedded YouTube link. Makes a nice directory without a need to create a YT account, and "trust" your personal preferences to Dr.Google. Very useful detail improvement, thanks to some unknown v10 developer. Not available in legacy, if I forgot to mention it. 

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LOL!!!

This is the version of Word you will use for typing. When you want to FORMAT your text, you load in a different version of Word and change fonts and stuff around. Oh, Printing? Yeah--that requires yet a DIFFERENT version of Word to be used--you load in your document and print from it.

If Micro$oft tried that, everyone would know they had a crappy word processor. But you? When Evernote does it, you call it a feature.

I'll make you a deal--when NEW Evernote gets up to 1/10th the speed of Legacy, you let us know and we will all be impressed at the fact that New has improved its speed by a factor of 45. 

But, I do agree, based solely upon your recommendation (primarily because I already have HAD a few playlists in YouTube for a few years now), that Evernote is almost as good at creating and playing a list of YouTube videos as generic YouTube is. (Caveat: The YouTube playlist is better, because when you set auto-play to on, you select your list with one click and ALL the music videos you want play in order without the need for any more interaction.)

When your BEST defense of a Database program's slowness is that you can use it to create a simple list of YouTube videos...

PS. Why anyone would trust Evernote with their information and not Google... Oh well. Personal preferences. Just remember to set your browser to no cookies, use a VPN, AND a different computer every time you use any Google product, or they already know who you are and everything about you BEFORE the first pixel of the YouTube welcome page displays on your screen--whether you have an account or not.

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43 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

You are very convinced about owning the TRUTH, aren’t you ?

Then I leave you with you opinion, have fun with it.

No, I am concerned about being correct.

Also:

Opinion: New Evernote runs horribly slow 

Fact: In side-by-side testing some basic New Evernote functions took 459 times as long to complete as Legacy Evernote did, and took far more user interaction steps to complete.

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21 hours ago, Fabrice_16 said:

Yes, also experiencing very slow sync
on I-phone. Maybe there’s an exceptional reason for this ?

 

As much as I love to hate iPhones, I doubt it is the phone.

As someone else suggested, upgrade to the latest version and re-try.

I know sync for me takes about 2 seconds. But, I use Legacy/Windows, and Android. 

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Evernote is now way to slow - experiencing the same as described above and consuming too much resources.

Is there a plan to address the performance issue?

Is there a recommended solution to migrate all notes to? (if no plan)

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It's been a long time since I was a (premium) user, but here I am, thinking that, after all this time, the program must be better, the mistakes corrected, the priorities set straight, my expectations set slightly above zero. So I rent it again, because the traffic limit of the free version wouldn't last me a week, but the app looks nice and dark and i believe in nth chances.

It took a day to run into problems and roll back the version.

I'm on the version that I left because I thought it was getting *****!. And it's a HUGE improvement!. 

This

Is

A

Ridiculous

Program

Devs: I get that you don't like developing software, but don't you like money? I try, I've tried so many times to be your paying customer, but you keep making it worse and pushing my money away.

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18 hours ago, Delbruck said:

but here I am, thinking that, after all this time, the program must be better, the mistakes corrected, the priorities set straight, my expectations set slightly above zero.

Do you also leave out milk and cookies every December 24th, hope springing eternal?

 

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2 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Do you also leave out milk and cookies every December 24th, hope springing eternal?

 

Yes, and I also believe that Disney could make a good Star Wars trilogy.

But I'm ditching Evernote.

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I think the Windows desktop app is running at somewhat OK speed (for my simple needs!), but the android app is so slow that it's close to unusable. Just opening the app takes about 1 minute.

Many of my notes are "picture notes" (taking pictures of things I need to remember, and just adding a short headline). Using Evernote android it takes up to 2 minutes (average 1 minute 15 secs) to snap a simple picture note. 

OneNote can do the same in just 15 seconds! So, I often end up using OneNote instead, and get my notes spread in two different apps. Which sure isn't very practical 🙄

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51 minutes ago, janndk said:

I think the Windows desktop app is running at somewhat OK speed (for my simple needs!), but the android app is so slow that it's close to unusable. Just opening the app takes about 1 minute.

Many of my notes are "picture notes" (taking pictures of things I need to remember, and just adding a short headline). Using Evernote android it takes up to 2 minutes (average 1 minute 15 secs) to snap a simple picture note. 

OneNote can do the same in just 15 seconds! So, I often end up using OneNote instead, and get my notes spread in two different apps. Which sure isn't very practical 🙄

I've only seen a very slight improvement. Moving a note now takes 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. One note is 3 seconds. Ten notes is 30 seconds. 100 notes - 300 seconds. This against Legacy where it's 1 second, whether 1 note, ten notes or a hundred notes. 

I would be shocked if we ever see the speed of legacy again, but 5 minutes to do anything on a modern computer is unacceptable. It's been a year, progress has been very slow. I like v10 and the new features, but basic functionality is still broken. 

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4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

If it is the wrong program for you, don’t use it.

That it may be the wrong program for you does not mean it is the wrong program for others.

 

Other people already KNOW to not use software that isn't right for them--they don't need you to tell them that. 

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2 hours ago, dbvirago said:

I would be shocked if we ever see the speed of legacy again, but 5 minutes to do anything on a modern computer is unacceptable. It's been a year, progress has been very slow. I like v10 and the new features, but basic functionality is still broken. 

Yeah. I have abandoned Evernote for anything other than purely personal notes, like the address of the Pancake House in my MIL's city, or what size batteries my car remote FOB takes. Oh, and the size of the light bulbs that burn out every 2-3 years in the kitchen--I know when one burns out I can go to Lowes and just look at my phone for the right size!

Evernote still rocks for stuff like that!

 

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57 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Other people already KNOW to not use software that isn't right for them--they don't need you to tell them that.

I dunno. I see a lot of people complaining hard that they want Evernote to do this better or that better. Or complaints about too many features that get in their way that they aren't ever going to use. There are so many note taking and task management apps out there now but I think a lot of people have used Evernote for so long that it's really hard to make a switch and it's just way easier to complain. Complaints are just fine in my book -- btw -- but it's all about how it's made. Constructive criticism is great and I hope it serves to make Evernote better! But some complaints (and complainers) just come across as pretty petty. (Not saying that about you, but there are definitely some other people that fall into that camp.)

I have a few nitpicks about Evernote and speed is one of them. It's not really *that* slow for me personally, but I would love to see it even faster.

 

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So. Pinkelephant tells me what to do and Boot17 calls me petty. I'm going to clarify what I think and try and justify my attitude. I just have to move a couple dozen notes on Evernote, I'll come back when I'm finished.

 

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5 hours ago, Delbruck said:

So. Pinkelephant tells me what to do and Boot17 calls me petty. I'm going to clarify what I think and try and justify my attitude. I just have to move a couple dozen notes on Evernote, I'll come back when I'm finished.

 

Oh come ON!

They deserve an answer before THEN!

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14 hours ago, Delbruck said:

I'll come back when I'm finished.

Still hasn't finished? 😃

Apologies if you thought I was directing my "petty complaints" comments at you specifically. I wasn't. Was just speaking in generalities with regards to that.

Edit: My main point was that "There are so many note taking and task management apps out there now but I think a lot of people have used Evernote for so long that it's really hard to make a switch" and so that it might actually be helpful for them for someone to say "hey -- have you thought about trying something different that might work for you better". (Craft, Apple Notes, Obsidian, UpNote, Notesnook, Notion, Bear, Nimbus, Rome Research, Joplin, Dendron and Notejoy just to name a few if anyone hasn't looked lately)

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Just announcing that I've switched to Notion yesterday, after 8 years of using Evernote. Just can't take how slow it is taking 10s of seconds, sometimes minutes to switch between notes. For my use (simple notes taking) it seems like a great decision 😁

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16 minutes ago, Bloulou said:

Just announcing that I've switched to Notion yesterday, after 8 years of using Evernote. Just can't take how slow it is taking 10s of seconds, sometimes minutes to switch between notes. For my use (simple notes taking) it seems like a great decision 😁

Do yourself a favor, and actually watch some videos on how Notion can be used as a production tool for scheduling work tasks for yourself and your team.  It is like the best of Evernote met the best of Outlook met... the best of Tony's Stark's holo drag and drop.... 

And, consider doing what I have done--Notion for work, Evernote for personal. For recording small stuff on the fly that I might want tomorrow or in 5 years, Evernote is still pretty good. 

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  • Level 5

The 2 apps don’t really try to be the same..

EN is the older app, build around a HTML platform and leaning on server side functions. EN is more predefined in its options and workflows, no need to build from scratch. By this the export to other apps works better as well.

Notion is the younger concept, build around a database. More a Lego approach, it is more flexible in how you set up, but this as well means the user is more on his own in how to set things up. And by being more flexible, the resulting structures are more difficult to export and import to other apps.

It is like having a screwdriver and a hammer, every one serves its purpose. But if one only has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

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This may not serve any purpose.  Nevertheless, I "upgraded" to become a premium user and downloaded the latest version.  

I am shocked at its dysfuntionality.   

Alt Keys have been eliminated.  

The preferences menu / submenu has been gutted.  

I did get a primitive "Tasks" module - one resembling Google Calendar Tasks from about a decade ago.  

Why?  Seriously, why?  

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On 9/8/2021 at 6:59 AM, ForestHorse said:

This may not serve any purpose.  Nevertheless, I "upgraded" to become a premium user and downloaded the latest version.  

I am shocked at its dysfuntionality.   

Alt Keys have been eliminated.  

The preferences menu / submenu has been gutted.  

I did get a primitive "Tasks" module - one resembling Google Calendar Tasks from about a decade ago.  

Why?  Seriously, why?  

Because you didn't read the forums first ;)

 

  • Haha 1
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48 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

@ForestHorse You can continue to dislike v10. Your personal choice, no matter why.

Or you install the legacy client, can be done side by side with v10. It brings back some functions you miss, but will not be developed any further.

True. Legacy plus your subscription does equal extra bandwidth.

And despite the fact that Legacy is no longer being developed, it is still the best version of Evernote, and probably will be for decades to come!

Just, hopefully, WIn 11 won't break it...

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