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Device limit change for Evernote Basic - to include web access


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Just got this email 

Device limit change for Evernote Basic 

Evernote has been rebuilt from the ground up to help you be more organized with less effort. If you use Evernote Web, this means you now have faster search, more formatting controls, and added features that were previously only available on other platforms: 

Stacks
Group related notebooks together and organize them by any category you want. 
Reminders
Set reminders in your notes to schedule action items and follow-ups. 
Collapsible sidebar
Minimize the sidebar when you’re not using it. 
Tag Enhancements
Nest tags to keep them organized. You can also search tags and rename them. 

These additions to Evernote Web give you the full-featured experience you’re used to on our other platforms. That’s why, starting in October, Evernote Web will count as a device towards the 2-device limit under our Basic plan. You can manage your devices anytime from your account settings. For more information about the device limit, please see our FAQ. If you use Evernote on multiple devices in addition to Evernote Web, we’d like to help you keep on doing so. That’s why we’re offering you a chance to upgrade to Evernote Premium for 25% off. Premium allows you to sync unlimited devices, access notes offline, and so much more. To take advantage of this offer, please click here and subscribe. The offer is valid until October 31.Thank you for using Evernote. We’re excited for all the ways our newly rebuilt apps will help you keep life organized. Best,
The Evernote Team 

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I just got the email saying that the Basic plan will now only allow you to use Evernote on ONE device in addition to accessing the web version.

I'm utterly disgusted by this, and that really is the last straw. I can take or leave the feature changes or updates. For me Evernote has met my needs just fine for nearly a decade, and the only change I've actually given a toss about in this time frame has been Dark mode. But no longer providing a free option that I can use on all of my devices pretty much undermines the whole point of the software for me. And it's enough for me to go to the big bother of going somewhere else.

I would have preferred to send feedback as an email to the product team, but of course I was funnelled into coming here instead. That's on you, Evernote.

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Oh my days.... the free crowd on Reddit are going to pop a vein!!

I say good move. I'd rather my notes are kept by a company that has income and makes a profit!!

Nothing wrong with paying for what you use👍

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22 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

Oh my days.... the free crowd on Reddit are going to pop a vein!!

I say good move. I'd rather my notes are kept by a company that has income and makes a profit!!

Nothing wrong with paying for what you use👍

Agreed

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Yeah, I started paying for Evernote as soon as I realized what it was doing and could do for me. But it's a teeny bit hard to imagine anyone starting to pay for v. 10 of the Windows program. When I started paying, the desktop program was highly functional, if imperfect. Since it currently offers relatively little that the Web interface doesn't, why pay to use both? I suspect more people with relatively little already stashed in EN will look elsewhere rather than pony up.

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Unlikely to bother anyone on here, given that most will be premium users already. But it feels a bit tin eared to make this change now when the new version is so troubled. If the idea is to prompt more people to pay a sub, is this really the right moment to make them make a decision one way or another?

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4 hours ago, RoyMan said:

Maybe they need to add a "lite" pay level. I dont use the app enough to validate paying the fee. All of the other paid benefits do nothing for me aside from being able to use the web interface on my work computer where I cant install anything.

Yeah, for me the big price jump a few years ago moved me away from EN. I'd be very happy to pay like $15/year but not $96/year. They're essentially making the basic version a non-expiring trial version. Which is great. But $96/year means EN would have to be my most important productivity app--just as important as MS Office for example.

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People can still use it for free for as long as they want - they are just limited to 2 devices. If you are using it on more than 2 devices then you probably realise that it's quite useful and you should pay for it...

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I'm so glad we can be more "organized" as one is required to sign out of devices more often making it less convenient.

     Through Evernote web, I used to be able to stay signed in to my desktop, laptop, and smartphone without a problem. Now, when I get on Zoom on my laptop, I will have to sign out on my desktop, sign in on my laptop, and then switch back after the meeting is over.

    What about people that use computers in public places such as schools or libraries? I'm not saying its happening often.

    I'm technically signed into both the app and the website on my desktop so whatever works best with my work flow. I'll now have to choose one or the other.

    Why not simply expand the limit of 2 devices for basic users to 3? This would ensure less limiting. 

     I would consider switching to another note taking app, but none of the others I've tried have the features I need.

    

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I would pay $15 a year for say 3 devices but I don't use it enough to pay $100  a year. As it is I basically just use it to store manuals, receipts etc.

It is the same with Dropbox. I'd pay $ 15 a year for 20 Gigs of storage but even their basic paid plan is just too much for me. So if I hit the limit in Dropbox I will just buy another external drive and be diligent with my backups.

I can't understand why companies like Evernote and Dropbox don't seem to get that there is a small fortune waiting out there for them if only they offered a proper "budget" price for a very basic and limited version of their software that satisfies the needs of thousands of potential customers rather than just focus on hundreds of "premium" ones.  

 

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Thinking that some places like Hong Kong and Taiwan, which can still enjoy the original USD$45/year subscription, will have a price hike to the same as other countries very soon.

Next up, (I predict) this forum will be shut down as it provides support for basic free users. To have support please pay first and contact their support team directly.

I don't want to criticize the company like this but every their move is showing me they want you to pay (more) while giving you less and worse.

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They are trying to step up and challenge more and more users.

  1. Unusable iOS version to some mobile users.
  2. Mac/Windows versions removing features to larger amount of power, paid  users.
  3. Free users' number of devices limited (calling up to pay before their new Evernote is complete).

For step 3, they have done similar before. The price hike in 2016 without any improvement.

I have followed Twitter by searching "Evernote" to see how users respond to the above actions. They have sparked more and more users' frustration for a month. More people addressing Windows issues, and much more people are talking about the free limitation, especially claiming to moving to Notion.

A Reddit user worried about Evernote would disable export function (You can't rule out this possibility as their new Evernote has removed other formats expect .enex and the company does not want to communicate with users, enclosing information including the roadmap).

If the Premium and new software is reliable solid fast as well as willingness to communicate (not just interviews), users will be happy to pay. But they ask you to buy more pains, just giving you false hopes that twelve months to be waited to bring back features and reliability. Will you really trust this company?

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Reminders (and stacks) where previously always available in Evernote Web. The reminders disappeared in the new version. That's why I'm still using the old web-version.

So Evernote is now letting customers pay for features that are gone.

It's a strange way of treating your customers! 

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52 minutes ago, kolenkid said:

Reminders (and stacks) where previously always available in Evernote Web. The reminders disappeared in the new version. That's why I'm still using the old web-version.

So Evernote is now letting customers pay for features that are gone.

It's a strange way of treating your customers! 

Umm ... there are lots of problems, but reminders and stacks have been working in the new Web client for quite some time. Reminder is at the bottom left of the note, next to tags. To put a notebook in a stack (from the Help article on stacks):

  1. In the left panel, select Notebooks to open the notebook list view to the right.
  2. Click the More actions button (three dots) next to the notebook you would like to add to a stack.
  3. Select Add to stack from the drop-down menu, then select New stack to create a new stack or select a stack name to add to an existing stack.
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On 10/21/2020 at 12:24 PM, Richenda said:

I just got the email saying that the Basic plan will now only allow you to use Evernote on ONE device in addition to accessing the web version.

I'm utterly disgusted by this, and that really is the last straw. I can take or leave the feature changes or updates. For me Evernote has met my needs just fine for nearly a decade, and the only change I've actually given a toss about in this time frame has been Dark mode. But no longer providing a free option that I can use on all of my devices pretty much undermines the whole point of the software for me. And it's enough for me to go to the big bother of going somewhere else.

I would have preferred to send feedback as an email to the product team, but of course I was funnelled into coming here instead. That's on you, Evernote.

I agree that cutting Basic users down to Web + 1 is very, very poorly timed. Yet there does have to be a line somewhere; you already couldn't use it on all your devices unless you only had 2. And as someone who has been paying for your multi-device freebie for a few years ... well, I just have a hard time sympathizing. OneNote is free, if you like paying for the whole MS Office package. Google Docs is free, if you like Google knowing even more of your business. The main thing that is truly and absolutely free is ... nothing. Somebody's paying somewhere, with money or with personal information.

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Timing probably is currently not the strongest side of EN (watching at their release policy).

But it seems they have just decided it is time now to earn some money. So if you loose 50% of all Basic accounts, what happens ? Well, nothing in terms of revenue, and probably very little in terms of customer attraction. Those who can do with the change will anyhow not upgrade, those who can’t will get lost, or be converted into a customer (= paying user). IMHO this is quite a non brainer, no problem with me.

For me @Dave-in-Decatur the much more relevant question is how many paying users will get lost over this update disaster. Sure, most will be on an annual subscription. But this means every month 1/12th of the Customer base is confronted with the question whether to stay or to move. I hope EN  gets its act together - I do not like the idea to continue to pay the same price for a degraded product when „my month“ is coming.

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On 10/21/2020 at 5:49 PM, boydston said:

Yeah, for me the big price jump a few years ago moved me away from EN. I'd be very happy to pay like $15/year but not $96/year. They're essentially making the basic version a non-expiring trial version. Which is great. But $96/year means EN would have to be my most important productivity app--just as important as MS Office for example.

ditto.   I was paying for 4-5 years, but the price jump, and my lack of travel now, made me drop back to basic.   

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I think I echo a lot of the users here in that if we are using it on more than two devices we probably are getting a fair bit of use out of it and paying our way isn’t an unreasonable expectation. I would strongly urge them to bring back a plus tier, even it if had device restrictions to 3 or 5 or something. The difference between basic and premium is crazy high in upload and storage etc. 

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11 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Umm ... there are lots of problems, but reminders and stacks have been working in the new Web client for quite some time. Reminder is at the bottom left of the note, next to tags

There are no reminders in my new web client. And it isn't possible to select reminders in the 'All notes' view. I contacted Evernote and they say that they are still working on it. So it's strange that some people can set reminders in te web client and some people can't.

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45 minutes ago, kolenkid said:

There are no reminders in my new web client. And it isn't possible to select reminders in the 'All notes' view. I contacted Evernote and they say that they are still working on it. So it's strange that some people can set reminders in te web client and some people can't.

Do you use evernote V10.2.1 or do you stick to the old version? At least for me reminders work properly in my web client

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1 hour ago, wbutchart said:

I think I echo a lot of the users here in that if we are using it on more than two devices we probably are getting a fair bit of use out of it and paying our way isn’t an unreasonable expectation. I would strongly urge them to bring back a plus tier, even it if had device restrictions to 3 or 5 or something. The difference between basic and premium is crazy high in upload and storage etc. 

I understand evernote has a bootstrap problem: if *all* evernote users would pay a fair fee, prices could drop dramatically and everybody would be happy. The big question is, how can you make this transition without the risk that existing paying users switch to a lower plan and the rest would still stick at Basic plan...

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15 minutes ago, eric99 said:

I understand evernote has a bootstrap problem: if *all* evernote users would pay a fair fee, prices could drop dramatically and everybody would be happy. The big question is, how can you make this transition without the risk that existing paying users switch to a lower plan and the rest would still stick at Basic plan...

Yeah, I know, cause I would be one of the first to do it lol! But, if they want basic to pay, there needs to be something closer to their actual needs, considering the 60mb etc restrictions that costs around half of premium. When you consider the price of office and what you get there for the subscription Evernote premium is costly in comparison. 

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1 hour ago, eric99 said:

Do you use evernote V10.2.1 or do you stick to the old version? At least for me reminders work properly in my web client

No I use V5.33.0. It has the new lay-out. But I can't update the web-client to a newer version.

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1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

The web client usually updates itself. You can just choose between the classic and the new client.

Maybe you have something chached in your browser. Try on another one, or clear the cache.

I tried different browsers on different computers, but I still get V5.33.0. It seems that Evernote is not giving everyone the same web-experience.

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On 10/21/2020 at 12:25 PM, Jon/t said:

Oh my days.... the free crowd on Reddit are going to pop a vein!!

I say good move. I'd rather my notes are kept by a company that has income and makes a profit!!

Nothing wrong with paying for what you use👍

My thoughts exactly. 

Even when a software/service is "free", I prefer a paid level or alternate product. I feel that I can hold a company accountable if I'm paying for their product (or take my money elsewhere). 

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6 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Currently we have paid Premium (not my name, but I take it) for a massive downgrade.

Only if you installed v10 software; I'm still running legacy on my Mac   
It's a great service and the legacy software runs well

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Hi All,

Thank you for sharing your feedback on this change. Please continue to share your thoughts/feedback here.

One thing I wanted to clarify is that you can still use 2 devices as a Basic subscription user, even if neither of those devices are web.

The change is that the Web Client is now counted as one of the devices.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Shane D. said:

Hi All,

Thank you for sharing your feedback on this change. Please continue to share your thoughts/feedback here.

One thing I wanted to clarify is that you can still use 2 devices as a Basic subscription user, even if neither of those devices are web.

The change is that the Web Client is now counted as one of the devices.

 

 

But what about this scenario:

- Android app

- Personal computer (Web app)

- Work computer (Web app)

Does this count as 3 devices?! If so, then I'm afraid I have to consider other alternatives to evernote

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4 minutes ago, Shane D. said:

Hi @Nuno Saraiva

No, given your scenario, that would count as only two devices.

The Web Client is counted as 1 device, irrespective of the physical device or browser it's used on.

Hope this helps to clarify!

Thanks for the feedback!

And I'm glad that at least this change won't affect my workflow,

Cheers

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19 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Timing probably is currently not the strongest side of EN (watching at their release policy).

But it seems they have just decided it is time now to earn some money. So if you loose 50% of all Basic accounts, what happens ? Well, nothing in terms of revenue, and probably very little in terms of customer attraction. Those who can do with the change will anyhow not upgrade, those who can’t will get lost, or be converted into a customer (= paying user). IMHO this is quite a non brainer, no problem with me.

For me @Dave-in-Decatur the much more relevant question is how many paying users will get lost over this update disaster. Sure, most will be on an annual subscription. But this means every month 1/12th of the Customer base is confronted with the question whether to stay or to move. I hope EN  gets its act together - I do not like the idea to continue to pay the same price for a degraded product when „my month“ is coming.

Well thought out, as usual, @PinkElephant. This change doesn't seem likely to cause too many people to start subscribing, especially if they also don't like v. 10 as it now is. But, as you say, since they're already not paying, Evernote does not lose anything financially.

My account renewal is not until next spring, and by then the situation should be greatly clarified. Meanwhile, I am at the point where I must finally move from Windows 7 to Win10 (and replace my old-but-still-reliable computer at the same time), and the it will be possible for me to install Evernote 10, if I choose, and join in the Oktoberschadenfest in earnest.

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3 hours ago, kolenkid said:

I tried different browsers on different computers, but I still get V5.33.0. It seems that Evernote is not giving everyone the same web-experience.

This does explain the lack of Reminders and Stacks. That's very strange, considering how long v. 10, and v. 6 before that, have been available on the Web. Since you have a Premium subscription, this might be worth taking up with support. They might be glad to get a question that isn't about the v. 10 desktop app!

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On 10/21/2020 at 11:49 PM, boydston said:

Yeah, for me the big price jump a few years ago moved me away from EN. I'd be very happy to pay like $15/year but not $96/year. They're essentially making the basic version a non-expiring trial version. Which is great. But $96/year means EN would have to be my most important productivity app--just as important as MS Office for example.

EN is a much more important productivity App compared to MS office - in my case 🙂

That‘ why I pay money to EN but not to MS.

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34 minutes ago, stocky2605 said:

@Nuno Saraivaconsider to pay EN for your workflow?

No. I can't afford having that expense. That's why I asked about using multiple computers with the web app.

And I'm still worried about future changes that Evernote may have in the future. 

Limiting the free version will definitely make some users look for alternatives and they may even influence other users as well, so I don't see that as a good move from Evernote

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It is the equivalent of 1 cup of coffee-to-go per month (at least in many places), so it can’t be important for you to use it.

In general it is a simple question: Giving away a service that internally cost money for free is nothing else than marketing expenses. You have to set 2 points to make these expenses pay for you in the long term: How long or under which conditions can you allow the use of the free service, and what is the conversion rate from free to paid that makes your marketing pay back in the end ?

If the Free service is too good, it will be used indefinitely, and will by „reverse conversion“ even drain the paid segment from which you make your living - and pay your marketing expenses. I am surprised that EN still allows an indefinite use of the basic accounts. I would probably limit it to 5 years, to allow every student in the world to use my service for free while on a shoestring, and then forcing them when entering professional life to decide to subscribe to continue, or to quit.

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9 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

I am surprised that EN still allows an indefinite use of the basic accounts.

A lot of software companies I've spoken to over the last few years (consult work) are going for 30 day free trials instead of offering never ending free plans. It costs too much money. It used to be a cheap marketing tool but not really anymore.

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32 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

It is the equivalent of 1 cup of coffee-to-go per month (at least in many places), so it can’t be important for you to use it.

In general it is a simple question: Giving away a service that internally cost money for free is nothing else than marketing expenses. You have to set 2 points to make these expenses pay for you in the long term: How long or under which conditions can you allow the use of the free service, and what is the conversion rate from free to paid that makes your marketing pay back in the end ?

If the Free service is too good, it will be used indefinitely, and will by „reverse conversion“ even drain the paid segment from which you make your living - and pay your marketing expenses. I am surprised that EN still allows an indefinite use of the basic accounts. I would probably limit it to 5 years, to allow every student in the world to use my service for free while on a shoestring, and then forcing them when entering professional life to decide to subscribe to continue, or to quit.

I agree with you. It's not important enough to justify the payment. At least for now.

However I have this workflow (again, not super important) and I wanted to know if I can still use Evernote free plan for this.

I would gladly pay for the service when its premium features justify my use cases :) like I do for my task manager

Either way, thanks for all your feedback!

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Just catching up with the announcement, and for what it's worth adding my 2 cents (although at current "premium" plan pricing, it may take a while for 2 cents to add up).

I'm very much in the camp of "I like Evernote, but I don't really need it", and most of the "benefits" of premium aren't applicable to me (storage space? I only write text notes and maybe 5 images total across my entire collection). The only thing I would be paying for would be the additional devices, like when I have a new phone and still have overlap between the new and old device (or sometimes having a work phone + personal phone). This is especially an issue considering Evernote web (currently/historically) doesn't even work on a mobile device, so you have no way to quickly look something up on a phone unless the app is installed and a "license" consumed.

I would love a "plus" subscription, as I might be willing to pay around $15 a year for 3-4 total devices - but I appreciate the comment above by @eric99 that offering a lower priced option could mean people who currently pay would downgrade more than free users would upgrade. I get the business sense, I just wish there was some middle ground. C'est la vie!

I'm still not ready to pay ~$100 a year for a personal use note taking application, so I'll find a way to adjust to only 1 "additional" device. But I'm going to start seriously looking into how to back up all my notes and prepare for me inevitably getting kicked off this application in the coming year(s)...

It's been a fun ride, and I'm still happy to use the service and even recommend for what it is - but I'm a lot more wary about long-term sustainability for my "basic" needs.

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Hi, Does it mean the 3rd party apps will be also affected?  I use EN on iPad and Macbook client only. Don't use web. So 2 clients total. However, On my iPad I also have 3rd party apps installed that do connect to Evernote. For one of the apps I have a subscription due so I am concerned whether I should renew the subscription or not. Are the iOS 3rd party clients going to be affected?  The subscription renewal is due tomorrow so I wanted to check here if anybody knows.  I don't want to renew it only to find I can't use the 3rd party apps due to the device limit. Some of the apps I have:

https://apps.apple.com/cz/app/everpost/id595116637

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/textever-quick-notes-for-evernote/id955342150

Thanks.

 

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API access by other apps was not part of the limitation. Otherwise you would have been over the limit already.

Since the plans and their conditions is company policy, the free plan can change without notice. Only paying users are customers, and as such protected against rapid changes of conditions. EN did honor this in the past, like continuing the PLUS plan for existing users when it had expired for new users.

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May be EN should stop offering free version altogether and offer paid version only?

Personally I think charging users for keeping notes is no longer a profitable business model - especially when there are many other alternatives available for free.

 

 

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One reason there are free accounts is the sharing function. Sure, one can say send all people who receive a share to a web site. But if you share more often to somebody, or say build the communication of a small, temporary project group around EN sharing, it is much better to use the client to work with the shared information, and create some own to send it back.

It is a decision by EN management whether to offer a free model, and to define the limits of that use.

A real contract for the use of the service can only hold a user that is paying - this is what we call a customer, with a legally enforceable contract.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/23/2020 at 7:55 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

This does explain the lack of Reminders and Stacks. That's very strange, considering how long v. 10, and v. 6 before that, have been available on the Web. Since you have a Premium subscription, this might be worth taking up with support. They might be glad to get a question that isn't about the v. 10 desktop app!

It took a few weeks for Evernote to answer the question. But it turns out that Evernote only cares about new or 'light' users: "The web version is made available to our customers based on account usage. More specifically, the total number of note created on your account. The current cap is 10,000, which includes notes from shared notebooks, public notebooks, spaces, or those creates over the 12 years you've used Evernote." It's a realy strange way of treating your most loyal customers. I'm using Evernote since the beginning and I have more than 15.000 notes, so I don't get the new web-version.

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13 minutes ago, kolenkid said:

It took a few weeks for Evernote to answer the question. But it turns out that Evernote only cares about new or 'light' users: "The web version is made available to our customers based on account usage. More specifically, the total number of note created on your account. The current cap is 10,000, which includes notes from shared notebooks, public notebooks, spaces, or those creates over the 12 years you've used Evernote." It's a realy strange way of treating your most loyal customers. I'm using Evernote since the beginning and I have more than 15.000 notes, so I don't get the new web-version.

That seems very odd. The max number of notes you can create on all plans (except business) is 100,000.

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209005247-Evernote-system-limits

 

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6 hours ago, kolenkid said:

The web version is made available to our customers based on account usage. More specifically, the total number of note created on your account. The current cap is 10,000

Thanks for sharing that, my Basic account is running v10.3.1 and I wondered why my Premium account never updated

>>Evernote only cares about new or 'light' users

There is the cannon fodder concept but my guess is the new version still has problems with note volumes

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Like all Evernote users we are fighting the supposedly 'improved' new versions : now we are informed that occasional use of someone else's laptop to access our data won't be possible as this will be classed as an additional user.

There's one hell of a difference between a few minutes use perhaps once a week and routine use from a Web interface.

Evernote continues to go down the route of deliberately making its program ever less attractive to its users !

Edited by PhilRSoT
Spelling mistake in post title
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  • PhilRSoT changed the title to A kick in the teeth for free Evernote users !
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9 minutes ago, PhilRSoT said:

Evernote continues to go down the route of deliberately making its program ever less attractive to its users !

...less attractive to those actively using the free service...?

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18 minutes ago, PhilRSoT said:

now we are informed that occasional use of someone else's laptop to access our data won't be possible as this will be classed as an additional user.

This would be Basic Subscription users are restricted to access using two devices.  Web access is now counted as a device

Your post has been merged with an ongoing discussion

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What would happen if EN looses half of the current nonpaying users tomorrow ?

Probably nothing, in terms of economical impact. Just would need to polish the KPIs a little, instead of talking of millions of „users“ to tell one of these growth stories that the financial analysts seem to love.

Loosing 10% of the paying users probably would be an entirely different story.

On the other hand, since probably close to 90% of all users are non paying, restricting the free use makes perfectly sense. If only 1 or 2 out of 10 would upgrade to Premium instead of leaving, EN could DOUBLE the number of paying users.

From a company perspective it makes perfect sense to restrict the use of the free account in a way that forces anybody who seriously wants to use  the software and server infrastructure to start paying for it.

Who is on Basic must not like it - but I would prepare to make a decision one day about „up or out“.

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  • 4 weeks later...

This is ridiculous. If I have my two devices set up at home, but if am traveling, at a hotel, etc., I cannot log onto the web? 

I know EN is in financial trouble, but part of their problem is their pricing strategy. The leap between free and premium is way too high...I think they need a mid-tier at about $35/year because $120/year is too high. Many products have that price as their premium level. I know EN is reluctant to lower its price and I think it can maintain its top price level but it needs to add a tier at about one-third of the premium price....better to get those fee users paying that something than sending them away. 

A core issue here is their new version is struggling to achieve parity to its old version and it is certainly not attracting new users with it, so they are trying to ratchet up the pressure on its existing user base, which only sends negative massages and will deter new subscriptions.

Evernote, please consider this:

  • EN free - no collaboration, perhaps a bit more limited than current basic, only phone + web access
  • EN personal ~ $35/y - single user, a lot of tools, similar to current "basic", 3 devices (e.g. pc, phone, web)
  • EN premium - $120/y - like now
  • EN Business -$180/y - like now

They are competing with things like MSOffice which gives 1Tb storage, office apps, and Onenote at about the price of EN premium... or Nimbus Notes with a pricing strategy similar to what I show above...or Notion...similar tiers..... Probably they are worried that premium users will drop down a level, but I think they are loyal and with the right bundles for each tier, that is unlikely. I think it would drive revenue and loyalty upward.

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7 minutes ago, CSHaines said:

I think they need a mid-tier at about $35/year

There's a mid-tier request at the note linked below    
To indicate support, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion..I think they need a mid-tier at about $35/year

 

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On 10/22/2020 at 4:01 AM, Adam03 said:

I can't understand why companies like Evernote and Dropbox don't seem to get that there is a small fortune waiting out there for them if only they offered a proper "budget" price for a very basic and limited version of their software that satisfies the needs of thousands of potential customers rather than just focus on hundreds of "premium" ones.

Totally agree: there must be thousands (millions??) of users that would benefit from and be willing to pay for a budget version of Evernote but can't justify the full paid version.  I'm definitely one!  I'd be happy to pay £2 a month or something like that for three devices.  (I wouldn't even use a lot of the premium functionality!)

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22 hours ago, DTLow said:

There's a mid-tier request at the note linked below    
To indicate support, use the vote button at the top left corner of the discussion..I think they need a mid-tier at about $35/year

After reading the commentary in that thread (especially re: the removal of the Plus plan), and noting that the thread has had a total of four votes in nearly a year and a half, my gut says that a more affordable tier won't be added or considered any time soon. Looks like it'll be phone and web for me going forward. I can't justify $96/year just to get more devices, and more devices is really all I need.

What if they added the ability to pay just to add devices? Is that even feasible? $12-15/year to only add two more devices to the mix? (Sorry, but I haven't read this entire gargantuan thread, so apologies if this was brought up previously.)

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On 10/21/2020 at 12:24 PM, Richenda said:

I just got the email saying that the Basic plan will now only allow you to use Evernote on ONE device in addition to accessing the web version.

I'm utterly disgusted by this, and that really is the last straw. I can take or leave the feature changes or updates. For me Evernote has met my needs just fine for nearly a decade, and the only change I've actually given a toss about in this time frame has been Dark mode. But no longer providing a free option that I can use on all of my devices pretty much undermines the whole point of the software for me. And it's enough for me to go to the big bother of going somewhere else.

I would have preferred to send feedback as an email to the product team, but of course I was funnelled into coming here instead. That's on you, Evernote.

I just discovered this unfortunately!  I am very angry about this change.  Why would Evernote Web be different from using it on my computer???????  I have only two devices, my Mac and my iPhone.  I have no need for the Web most of the time as there has been no need.  So now if I have a problem, there is no way to solve it by asking them a question!  I have enjoyed Evernote for many years but this certainly makes it less usable for me.  I HATE this new version and would like to revert to the previous version!

Ann Rast

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The general question is why EN continues to offer such a generous free use plan of the product ? Did you ever ask this yourself ? This is probably more important for you than the question why they gradually cut the free plan back.

There are other note taking apps, with free plans like „try it for 30 days“, or „the first 50 notes are for free“, or else.

Then the are the „free“ solutions like OneNote, where you need a O365-subscription for the up-to-date software, or Apple Notes, free when you buy a Mac/I-device, and not free when using iCloud above 5 GB, etc.

The free plan at EN is quite unique, because it runs (currently) indefinitely and with a package that can be used (with restraint) for serious note taking over a long time. Even if you hoard several GB of server data, there is no limit applied. Pretty generous, even with the new restrictions.

So you can get angry, but first you are a user, not a customer, which reduces the impact of leaving the service to zero, and second you should get angry at yourself (maybe) and other Basic users (for sure) who stretched the use of the free model beyond limits. One was to permanently jump between devices, another to use the web client as a true 3rd client, when restricted to 2 by the „game rules“. EN took action on both, leaving the free plan intact for those who play by the rules.

EN will only survive when they offer a first class product (on which they need to work hard) and find enough customers who pay for maintaining and developing it. IMHO if the basic plan is too attractive and successful, it may well be the end of it as we know it today.

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48 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

The general question is why EN continues to offer such a generous free use plan of the product ? Did you ever ask this yourself ? This is probably more important for you than the question why they gradually cut the free plan back.

There are other note taking apps, with free plans like „try it for 30 days“, or „the first 50 notes are for free“, or else.

Then the are the „free“ solutions like OneNote, where you need a O365-subscription for the up-to-date software, or Apple Notes, free when you buy a Mac/I-device, and not free when using iCloud above 5 GB, etc.

The free plan at EN is quite unique, because it runs (currently) indefinitely and with a package that can be used (with restraint) for serious note taking over a long time. Even if you hoard several GB of server data, there is no limit applied. Pretty generous, even with the new restrictions.

So you can get angry, but first you are a user, not a customer, which reduces the impact of leaving the service to zero, and second you should get angry at yourself (maybe) and other Basic users (for sure) who stretched the use of the free model beyond limits. One was to permanently jump between devices, another to use the web client as a true 3rd client, when restricted to 2 by the „game rules“. EN took action on both, leaving the free plan intact for those who play by the rules.

EN will only survive when they offer a first class product (on which they need to work hard) and find enough customers who pay for maintaining and developing it. IMHO if the basic plan is too attractive and successful, it may well be the end of it as we know it today.

I agree. I have used EN at Basic, Plus and Premium levels at different times over the years. Back on Basic because legacy EN works pretty well for me and it's difficult to justify the huge gap from Basic to Premium's price for my current use case. I'd say a mid-tier option would be great, but clearly EN management has tried and abandoned that.

So if they are going to stay in the 2 tier - Basic and Premium - framework, if the goal is to increase paying subscribers (personally, I don't think that's as high a priority as many on this forum seem to think), then they need to induce Basic users to pay for Premium. How? Either increase the feature gap or decrease the price gap. 

The quickest way to increase the feature gap is to take features away from Basic. Premium is so loaded with features that it's already the most feature rich note app available as far as I know. And given the move to v10, it's going to be some time before they restore Premium v10 to Premium Legacy's feature set, much less surpass it, so it's hard to envision a lot of Basic users jumping to Premium in the near term. That leaves removing features from Basic as the more practical option to increase the feature gap. And as you note, Basic is very feature rich, to the point that there is little incentive to upgrade for many users. Even if they cut back here and there, they are still at least on par, if not better, than most of the competition. 

The other inducement to upgrade is decrease the price gap. Given how frequently Premium goes on sale, I'm guessing the regular price is not competitive. And the value proposition is tough to justify in comparison to Office 365 Personal - all the Office apps, OneNote, 1TB of cloud storage for $70/year. EN wants $8/mo for Premium. Ouch. 

Given the abandonment of Plus, which I'm guessing didn't draw enough users up from Basic, it seems to me the core issue is that Basic is too feature rich. And it's also the easiest issue to solve.

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Test it, they have a Limited free plan as well.

It is probably the app the farthest away from EN. You have to build a lot from scratch that comes predefined in EN. Some like it, some don’t. Pretty good for dashboards, less so for „store & find anything“.

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On 10/21/2020 at 12:25 PM, Jon/t said:

Oh my days.... the free crowd on Reddit are going to pop a vein!!

I say good move. I'd rather my notes are kept by a company that has income and makes a profit!!

Nothing wrong with paying for what you use👍

Sure, but the problem is that they're asking for too much money for what I want to use.

I just write text notes. 120 USD/year for that is ridiculous, it's the cost of a cellphone plan in some western countries. There needs to be a 2$/mo tier between Basic and Premium for people who are just syncing basic text notes. I don't care about email, OCR, TODOs, webcam, ink, etc.

I'm planning my migration away. It's not just the gimping of the Basic plan. That slow, crappy new UI in V10 was the writing on the wall, these changes to Basic merely accelerate my exodus.

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31 minutes ago, isthisme said:

120 USD/year for that is ridiculous

I thought it was $70.  Still may be too much for you but I don't think it is $120, not in the US anyway.

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Be VERY careful if you're on the Basic plan.

After the change that made web browsers count towards your 2 device limit on the Basic plan took me by surprise, I used one of my 2 monthly device removals to free up 1 device so I could use the browser. (I couldn't use my PC and was used to using the browser as an occasional backdoor into my notes).

Later, having learned that Evernote now counts browser sessions towards the 2 device limit, I used my 2nd device unsync to remove the browser, which allowed me to set my PC as a device. I thought this would be the end of it: only my PC and my phone are registered devices, no unsyncs left.

Today, I went to evernote.com and logged in to read the forums. It told me that I reached my device limit, upgrade to premium, etc, I closed the unsync popup since I didn't want to unsync anything else (and had no unsyncs left anyway). I am 100% certain I did not unsync my PC. I was fully aware of the limits and I only enjoy using Evernote on desktop (V6/legacy anyway), so I would never have unsynced it.

So what happened? Evernote somehow unsynced my PC despite not having any unsyncs left, and now my browser is a registered device. Just because I wanted to read the forums.

The website doesn't seem to have an Export option, so I can't even migrate away from Evernote, at least for another month. All I can do is use notes in a single browser on my home PC, and on my phone.

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I realize I could sign up to Premium for 1 month to free up my notes and migrate, but, how do I say this without coming off like an ingrate? I feel that Evernote's recent actions can be explained by unfortunate bugs, overworked dev team, etc...but they can also be explained by dark patterns / sales tactics. For this reason, I don't want to potentially give some slimy executive the satisfaction that they got a cent out of me through those dark patterns. I'm gonna spite myself and wait out for the unsync reset, and leave without having contributed. That's how bitter this has been. I wish Evernote had just announced that they're canceling the Basic plan instead of this.

 

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12 minutes ago, isthisme said:

Warning: don't log in to evernote.com in your browser if you're on the Basic plan and already used up your 2 device unsyncs

I'm thinking it would be better to have one device enabled,   
and use the web for all other devices

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30 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I'm thinking it would be better to have one device enabled,   
and use the web for all other devices

The issue is that the device registration was taken from my chosen device without my consent, and transferred automatically to a device I don't want to use for notes (web). And those devices can't export so I'm in limbo.

You should have sticked my post so people don't get stung like I was, instead of moving it to the bottom of a random thread no one's reading. Please try to prioritize the interests of Evernote users above...whatever it is you hoped to achieve by moving my post here.

If you want, feel free to create your own (less negative) sticked post saying "Until some issues are resolved, don't log in to the website if you're on the Basic plan and want to use your 2 devices on non-web apps". BUT DON'T HIDE THIS.

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Nobody is locked into the Basic plan.

  • Anybody can leave - using one of the two devices for a desktop client is probably the best way. Then export notebook by notebook to ENEX files, that many other apps will import.
  • If things need to be organized before: Move to Premium for a month, get things unlocked by this, get a full upload allowance of 10GB, reorganize, and then proceed as in the first option.

Who stays, but says he will not need the Premium features for what little he is using the account is probably not the user EN has a long term interest in. Seen from the companies view, even the free account has way too many features to be left unpaid for an extended period of time. I don’t know the figures, but I think as well it would be clearer if the Basic plan would be time limited, forcing an „up or out“ after a while of usage.

If it would be clever to force this now, in the middle of recovering from the v10-release-calamity is another question.

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I have been an Evernote Premium subscriber for 10+ years. I have no problem paying if I get what the company represented, both in terms of product AND SERVICE. In this regard, Evernote have woefully failed of late and do not deserve any payment. I have now have multiple unresolved support tickets over a month old (include one relating to the fact that I am stuck on web v5.33 and cannot even access v10.x web). Support has simply stopped communicating for weeks despite multiple follow up emails. I am now raising tickets to ask about the status of my other open tickets. Evernote support has never been great but it has simply descended into the abyss of late. So much for Premium Support.

This latest move to include web in the device limit of two is just another example of the increasing contempt that Evernote has for its current users. I think it will backfire in the long run, like most of @iansmall's decisions of late. @iansmall's latest "State of the Product" article is laughable. He should realise that the main audience likely to read that garbage are invested users like me who have a long time lived experience that prevents us swallowing the spoonfuls of placation and platitudes he is attempting to force feed us. I suspect he, and his minders, know this, which is why he now turns off comments on all his communications ... but according to his article he says "We are listening". WT... but I digress.

Including the web version in the device limit is just a poor way to implement a product and will prevent new users from being able to experience all the apps which, if they were deemed valuable, would help convert the fremium user into a paid user. The only reason that the conversion rate is currently low is simply that fremium users do not see any real value in the paid product - no wonder when it has not been enhanced for 6+ years (and the competition now is a lot stronger). Making the fremium product less valuable does not make the paid product more valuable. It just cuts off the very supply of new users that might become paying users in the future. Bad for business.

... and if @iansmall really believes that tag users as such a low % of the current user base then he should be very concerned about his decision to decrease the size of the fremium funnel - there are A LOT of free note taking apps out there if tags aren't important to you and device limits are. Users simply will not even bother installing the Evernote app.

Anyway, I implemented my contingency plan for the (then) inevitable demise of Evernote 3 years ago when the previous CEO Chris O'Neill ignored the needs of his Premium customers (i.e. the ones that pay him) and instead arrogantly concluded that what we really needed was a new Elephant icon and a few more shades of green in the brand. @iansmall is unfortunately on the same path of ignorance and arrogance. He asked for patience when he arrived, he got 2 years of it and then he screwed us with a downgrade masquerading as a "upgrade" (e.g. removing CMD J from the mac version speaks volumes of how out of touch they are). I have moved my family from annual to monthly payments and by April 2021 all our plans will be aligned monthly, ready to pull the ripcord to descend safely into a greener pasture if @iansmall can't join the dots by then that first platform he has to secure is one based on having happy CURRENT customers that expect to get what the brochure says ... like Premium customers getting Premium support.

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42 minutes ago, Rabbit704 said:

The only reason that the conversion rate is currently low is simply that fremium users do not see any real value in the paid product

I continue to see value in the Evernote product/service - both free and paid      
Users can continue to access the Evernote product/service without paying

I suspect the conversion rate is low has to do with human nature   
All these users thinking why should I pay, when I can get it for free

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11 hours ago, DTLow said:

All these users thinking why should I pay, when I can get it for free

Not only thinking, this is exactly what has recently been admitted by several basic users in this forum (who consider evernote a criticial part in their daily workflows)

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Just got hit by this little surprise myself, accessed notes via web and got the message to upgrade, said no thanks and closed browser, didn't actually access any notes in the web.

This morning, open my desktop and it said I needed to de-sync a device before I could access any notes. Desynced the unused web client and continued.

Oh and you can only de-sync 4 times a month. If I were (extremely) forgetful I could lock one of the devices I actually use out of my notes. Yikes. Things must be getting tough up in Redwood City.

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On 12/23/2020 at 4:26 PM, Carter Shanklin said:

Oh and you can only de-sync 4 times a month. If I were (extremely) forgetful I could lock one of the devices I actually use out of my notes. Yikes. Things must be getting tough up in Redwood City.

It is less so that things would get tough in Redwood City. It is more that (some) Basic users got overly smart(asses), switching the device in action permanently, by this practically circumventing the device restriction of the Basic account. What a few did to grab a bigger cut for themselves now falls on the feet of all Basic users, in terms of more and stricter rules for the Basic use case.

So if you want to complain, direct your energy towards these people that perverted the relatively generous former Basic model to their own benefit. It still is with free software, indefinite use and indefinite cloud storage the probably most generous free use model of all note taking apps.

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On 12/17/2020 at 7:19 PM, isthisme said:

 

I just write text notes. 120 USD/year for that is ridiculous, it's the cost of a cellphone plan in some western countries. There needs to be a 2$/mo tier between Basic and Premium for people who are just syncing basic text notes. I don't care about email, OCR, TODOs, webcam, ink, etc.

I agree with this comment, I actually replaced EN with Nimbus, if there was a 2$ tier I would've considered just for the web client in addition to the 2 android devices (Phone +tablet) EN is an overkill feature wise for me anyway, I don't use 90% of its functions at all.

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On 12/18/2020 at 4:25 PM, PinkElephant said:

Nobody is locked into the Basic plan.

  • Anybody can leave - using one of the two devices for a desktop client is probably the best way. Then export notebook by notebook to ENEX files, that many other apps will import.
  • If things need to be organized before: Move to Premium for a month, get things unlocked by this, get a full upload allowance of 10GB, reorganize, and then proceed as in the first option.

Who stays, but says he will not need the Premium features for what little he is using the account is probably not the user EN has a long term interest in. Seen from the companies view, even the free account has way too many features to be left unpaid for an extended period of time. I don’t know the figures, but I think as well it would be clearer if the Basic plan would be time limited, forcing an „up or out“ after a while of usage.

If it would be clever to force this now, in the middle of recovering from the v10-release-calamity is another question.

You are objectively wrong, I am currectly locked into the Basic plan.

"Anybody can leave": The only way to export to ENEX to leave is on the Desktop app, and since I am out of unsyncs (due to what is either a bug in Evernote's backend, or a dark pattern intentionally requested by a slimy project manager), I cannot add my desktop as one of the 2 basic devices. So no, I cannot leave. Currently counting down the days until the monthly counter resets, so I can add my desktop as a device, export my notes, and move to another app.

"Move to premium for a month": I refuse, because it would potentially reward a project manager who did this to me out of malice.

I agree with you that the free plan is a bad idea. I wish Basic plan had never existed, this way I wouldn't have been trapped when they decided to tighten the noose 1 year later.

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Your choice - your problem. Or vice versa.

We are just users here, that try to help others out of an issue, if we can. 

Personally I doubt that your fictional product manager will ever feel the pain, because you decided for yourself not to use the Premium exit. Be it as it is, after 30 days the limit resets, and you are free to do whatever you want.

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Sure it is true.

Before blasting EN to tighten things, go and hit those people that misused the free account by permanently switching devices. Basic is meant for exactly what it sounds: Basic use of EN. No peeks, no whistles, no fireworks.

If one needs more, there is Premium, for no more than a nice cup of „to go“ per month. Less coffee, better results.

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4 hours ago, isthisme said:

You are objectively wrong, I am currectly locked into the Basic plan.

You are locked only by choice.

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14 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Your choice - your problem. Or vice versa.

We are just users here, that try to help others out of an issue, if we can. 

Personally I doubt that your fictional product manager will ever feel the pain, because you decided for yourself not to use the Premium exit. Be it as it is, after 30 days the limit resets, and you are free to do whatever you want.

 

You didn't say "Anybody can leave, if they're willing to pay the ransom to leave despite being on a free plan, or wait long enough for their captors to release them", you only said "Anybody can leave". You were objectively wrong, and now are trying to change the goalposts in some pointless effort to have the last word. Feel free to have it as I won't be replying to you anymore, so you can change the goalposts further by replying with more bad faith.

All I wish is that the mods had left my thread warning people that the web interface can lock you out of registered devices if they are on the free plan, instead of burying it as a single comment on page XYZ of this topic. This one https://discussion.evernote.com/forums/topic/129687-device-limit-change-for-evernote-basic-to-include-web-access/?do=findComment&comment=597727 They should have sticked it if anything. So much for the "we are just users here" nonsense, eh? Mods with the user interests at heart rather than tribal fanboys trying to hide-but-not-outright-delete bad PR would have left my thread alone.

 

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OK, now you are locked in.

Again: Your own choice. You started to use the service without paying (which makes you a user, but not a customer), you did not look up the rules, you want yourself to exceeded the limits, now there are consequences: Going over the limits means paying for extended service. Unlock your account now to exceed the device limit, or wait until it unlocks by itself. Your data is safe until then, so no need to pay for anything, with a little patience.

Surprised ? How does it say in Matrix: Welcome to the real world.

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EN can implement whatever policy they want. However limiting to de-sync only 4 times a month was not something most people are aware off I guess.

This is an example of deception.

I guess even after limiting to 2 devices did not generate enough paying customers so they silently introduced another constraint.

 

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On 12/24/2020 at 6:40 PM, ehrt74 said:

Is it however still limited to less than 10000 notes? 

Yes, V10 is still limited to less than 10.000 notes! I'm still stuck at V5.3

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41 minutes ago, Vidalia said:

I guess even after limiting to 2 devices did not generate enough paying customers so they silently introduced another constraint.

It was not silently, it was announced. You just need to go to the first post in this thread to know that.

Since you are a user, but not a customer, IMHO you have to be happy whatever you get. Free plans are basically a marketing tool. By picking such a plan you put yourself at the mercy of whoever is in charge of this budget.

Remember, it is your own choice that you are where you are.

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I think it's ridiculous to count logging in on a web browser towards a device limit.  Sure, count my phone and my home computer with the client, but when I'm away from those and using a web browser it should not be considered a "device".

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Since you are not paying for anything you use, EN could put everything on your screen upside down, and it would still not be ridiculous. Just bad marketing, probably, but nothing more serious.

It is very simple: EN sets the rules under which the free model can be used. You may think they are too tough, but how shall they ever sell a subscription if they allow any type of use just like that ? If your use case includes using EN from different devices again and again, you fit one specific feature of the Premium plan, which is unlimited devices.

You must not be happy about the consequences, but you can still get it at 40% off. It is up to you whether to use this offer or not - just don’t complain about your own decision afterwards.

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2 hours ago, jrosekonungrinn said:

I think it's ridiculous to count logging in on a web browser towards a device limit.  Sure, count my phone and my home computer with the client, but when I'm away from those and using a web browser it should not be considered a "device".

There is a solution to this...

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am disappointed that the web browser is considered a device because I only use it there when EN doesn't open properly on my laptop. So in that case I need to use the web browser. It EN were more stable on my laptop, things would be a lot easier. I also have to frequently use EN legacy. I only use EN on my laptop and my tablet which to me feels like 2 devices because the web browser is only used on one of the devices.

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I'm utterly disgusted by this, and that really is the last straw. I can take or leave the feature changes or updates. For me Evernote has met my needs just fine for nearly a decade, and the only change I've actually given a toss about in this time frame has been Dark mode. But no longer providing a free option that I can use on all of my devices pretty much undermines the whole point of the software for me. And it's enough for me to go to the big bother of going somewhere else.

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