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When I used version 10 it seemed like my notes were stored on line (hence slow) rather than the old model of syncing to my computer. 

Can someone confirm how this works under version 10. 

If this is the case, I will be ceasing using Evernote. I have espoused the evernote model for years in other areas of software as the ideal model when my notes are synced to the cloud but stored on my computer. Then I am not relying on Evernote to be able to access my notes. If they take them off me and just keep them online, then I will be finding another solution.

I have managed to go back to the legacy edition for the moment.

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Looks like you could use the new app if it works for you,  and just leave the legacy version installed so you can update the local database from time to time.  Your backups will continue to be available,  as will all of the (currently) unavailable features that are (maybe?) still in development.

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6 hours ago, joness said:

When I used version 10 it seemed like my notes were stored on line (hence slow) rather than the old model of syncing to my computer. 

Can someone confirm how this works under version 10. 

I've got a video up that shows how Evernote 10 handles being offline (spoiler - it doesn't).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3r1ryU5Ffo

 

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There seems to be a partial solution: You need to know you will be offline later. Then log into the app when you still have internet, and leave the app open. Probably you can send your laptop into Energy mode / resting, but you can’t switch it off. And if you forgot, tough luck.

No, I do not think this is what I want ...

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There's obviously cross-over though because it's possible to run the legacy app alongside the new one,  and notes created in one will turn up in the other;  although from comments elsewhere,  the layout and style doesn't necessarily carry over.  It's just occurred to me (I'm a professional,  you know...) that I have a Basic account or two that I used for testing,  so I can update one of those to 'the new normal' and do some more testing as things develop.  The database for that account should still be fully available to me on the local device whether or not I'm online.  I hope...

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The pronouncements from the EN team during the preview and beta phases have been reasonanly clear. I'll quote a few of then here:

Hi all--we've implemented offline functionality, meaning that the application is available and most functionality exists when you are not connected to the internet. We do maintain a local database, but at log out are presently wiping that. In the release after next, we will be reinstating an option for you to maintain a permanent local copy of your notes (or, if you like, continue to remove the local database).

But also 

Fully offline capabilities are still in the works. Additional improvements are coming! 

 

 

You do need to make sure that "save data at logout" in tools -> preferences.

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37 minutes ago, Mike P said:

We do maintain a local database, but at log out are presently wiping that. In the release after next, we will be reinstating an option for you to maintain a permanent local copy of your notes (or, if you like, continue to remove the local database).

I'm not able (or willing) to update to the new version yet. Can you or someone else confirm whether it does in fact maintain a permanent local database (even if the user must request it to do so)?

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Probably at the moment nobody can answer how the „permanent“ set up of EN will be. The current state of the app is too sketchy for that.

I will continue with the vintage clients on Windows and Mac until the fog rises.

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37 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Can you or someone else confirm whether it does in fact maintain a permanent local database (even if the user must request it to do so)?

I certainly wouldn't want to be definitive. There isn't anything clearly identifiable as a local DB like the old version so perhaps it is more like a cache. In my limited experience of using it offline most things seem to work but I couldn't guarantee that everything is there.

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4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

There seems to be a partial solution:

Full solution is to stay on 6.25 if you really need the function and wait until 10 gets fixed.

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10 hours ago, joness said:

notes synced or stored on line only

If this is truly optional; it's an improvement
Even better would be selected Offline Notebooks like the mobile platforms

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This was asked for many times, especially for the Mac platform where SSD sizes are traditionally smaller because of the pricing policy of Apple.

If it is optional, one could decide what to keep local, and what to place only on the server. This would be a plus for the new release.

On the other hand, on a mobile device there is NO internet connection needed when opening the app to work on offline content. IMHO this should work as well on all desktop clients. It simply is not acceptable that one needs an internet connection just to get an app working on offline content.

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Will have to stick to the legacy version at the moment until this is clarified. It is the number one deal breaker for me. There is no way am I committing to keeping my 15,000 life records on a platform without a permanent local database - regardless of the functionality.

The frustrating part is that I have never really found a great alternative. 

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On 10/9/2020 at 8:55 PM, joness said:

a platform without a permanent local database

Hi.  As I currently understand it,  Evernote have allowed for offline working by v10 downloading its own database and associated indexes.  It's only meant as 'temporary' storage however - the main copy of your notes is online,  and 'backup' means downloading a notebook to an ENEX file.  Depending on the size of your database this might be something you could comfortably do each night (if necessary) to ensure you have a local backup.  Alternatively the legacy version seems likely to be around for a year or two...

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Hmmn.  @joness - sorry; further to my note above,  I just found this higher up...

On 10/9/2020 at 5:50 PM, Mike P said:

We do maintain a local database, but at log out are presently wiping that. In the release after next, we will be reinstating an option for you to maintain a permanent local copy of your notes (or, if you like, continue to remove the local database).

So it looks like a permanent local copy database may well be an option in future - although if you are running the legacy version for other reasons, you'll need to allow for storing two databases!  

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I was testing this over the weekend and found that I could disconnect my connection and then had access to my note content in full, this included notes I know I have not opened in the new version since install.

I could close EN, via the X and it was still running in the system tray, then re-open and carry on accessing notes.
So the local copy of my notes seems to be there now and works offline, then when re-connecting syncs the changes.

But, reading the way it is described by EN it seems that if you were to 'log Out' (or 'Sign Out)' as it is in the File menu, I would imagine that is where it removes the local copy - so 'should' only be an issue if you are physically signing out of the app?

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Reember that the bit @gazumped quoted from my post was @gbarry back in July. As far as I know that has now been implemented. You do need to ensure that tools -> preferences -> save data at logout is ticked because I assume the files are wiped at logout otherwise.

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On Windows there is a menu item: tools -> preferences -> save data at logout. It is the only item within preferences, but with the promise of more to come I assume that is where they will all live.

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I have asked support but no answer so far. I can see that the prior files from older EN Windows client are not being used, and would like to get rid of them to save drive space, but I cannot find where the files are stored now.  I did test by disconnecting from the internet and verified I can still open attachments, so they are somewhere.  Any pointers?

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4 minutes ago, eafpres said:

I have asked support but no answer so far. I can see that the prior files from older EN Windows client are not being used, and would like to get rid of them to save drive space, but I cannot find where the files are stored now.  I did test by disconnecting from the internet and verified I can still open attachments, so they are somewhere.  Any pointers?

Someone else posted this but you could give it a look see.  C:/users/youraccount/appdata/roaming/evernote

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12 minutes ago, eafpres said:

I can see that the prior files from older EN Windows client are not being used, and would like to get rid of them to save drive space

If you want to get rid of the pre-v10 files, then the .exb will be the main one.  Go to Tools -> Options -> General to find the location.

That said, if you haven't been using v10 long, you might want to hang on to your "legacy" version for a bit longer until you are comfortable that v10 isn't missing anything you need and that you are ok with the performance.  It is pretty stripped down at the moment and most users are finding it slower.  In some cases, painfully.

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3 hours ago, CalS said:

Someone else posted this but you could give it a look see.  C:/users/youraccount/appdata/roaming/evernote

That does seem to be where the new app is using storage. An issue is back in the old app, which definitely had file access performance issues in Windows, the actual attachments were stored. That mean, theoretically, I could get to PDFs, of which I have a lot in EN. Now, I don't see anything identifiable as such.

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3 hours ago, s2sailor said:

If you want to get rid of the pre-v10 files, then the .exb will be the main one.  Go to Tools -> Options -> General to find the location.

That said, if you haven't been using v10 long, you might want to hang on to your "legacy" version for a bit longer until you are comfortable that v10 isn't missing anything you need and that you are ok with the performance.  It is pretty stripped down at the moment and most users are finding it slower.  In some cases, painfully.

Yes, it's a huge change, and I get what they are doing, but I think this was awfully early to release it.  Watched a very recent interview w/the CEO and he's pretty in-tune with the issues but doesn't see any other way.

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25 minutes ago, eafpres said:

An issue is back in the old app, which definitely had file access performance issues in Windows, the actual attachments were stored. 

Correction--this was an even older version, I was looking at old backups. More recently, it would seem even the attachments are inside the exb

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Something of note. In September when I began to use the new version, my EN storage (c:\users\<user>\evernote occupied (still does, it's just lurking there...) 52.8 GB and comprised 750 files in 12 folders.

On the other hand, the new storage (c:\users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\Evernote) now occupies only 3.08 GB but has 49,234 files in 2,874 folders.

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47 minutes ago, eafpres said:

On the other hand, the new storage (c:\users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\Evernote) now occupies only 3.08 GB but has 49,234 files in 2,874 folders.

There's a separate folder for each note for the storage of attachments   
Attachments are no longer embedded in the .exb database

I wouldn't have expected a significant GB total
My Mac experience is from  15.45 GB 183,009 items
                                              to 13.55 GB   97,195 items

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5 hours ago, eafpres said:

That does seem to be where the new app is using storage. An issue is back in the old app, which definitely had file access performance issues in Windows, the actual attachments were stored. That mean, theoretically, I could get to PDFs, of which I have a lot in EN. Now, I don't see anything identifiable as such.

@ej8899 did some great detective work on this. Although it doesn't help much, you will see two files for each attachment. The mime file is a text file which you can read with notepad which tells you what type of file it is (pdf etc). The other larger file with no extension is the actual attachment file. So if the mime file says it is a pdf, you can copy it somewhere else, change the extension to pdf and open as normal.

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On 10/20/2020 at 1:56 PM, CalS said:

Someone else posted this but you could give it a look see.  C:/users/youraccount/appdata/roaming/evernote

I'm confused...I don't have an Evernote folder at that path location after installing the new app.

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2 hours ago, Jeff510 said:

I'm confused...I don't have an Evernote folder at that path location after installing the new app.

In EN v.10, Tools-Preferences, "Save Data at Log Out" needs to be checked.

If that's not the issue, then, did you make hidden folders visible in File Explorer? "appdata" is normally hidden by Windows, you would have to make it visible in File Explorer, View-Options.

Not sure what else to suggest.

folder.png

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On 10/20/2020 at 6:45 PM, DTLow said:

I wouldn't have expected a significant GB total
My Mac experience is from  15.45 GB 183,009 items
                                              to 13.55 GB   97,195 items

I think one of the long-standing issues on Windows is the use of a MySQL database which was not only underperforming but inefficient.  When I calculate the avg. PDF size for the number of PDFs I have, which are the main attachments I tend to have, it is more consistent with the new storage than the old value.

I did confirm Mike P's update that the MIME contains the file type and the file is of that type, so I do indeed have all my PDFs in a relatively accessible form, as well as all other attachments. 

I agree w/s2sailor that I'll not throw away all copies of that old db just yet...

Thanks for all the help here, folks.

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1 hour ago, Jeff510 said:

I'm confused...I don't have an Evernote folder at that path location after installing the new app.

Got me.  I quickly uninstalled V10 when I saw how much function I needed was missing.  Perhaps someone else who is using V10 can respond.

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3 hours ago, Don Dz said:

In EN v.10, Tools-Preferences, "Save Data at Log Out" needs to be checked.

If that's not the issue, then, did you make hidden folders visible in File Explorer? "appdata" is normally hidden by Windows, you would have to make it visible in File Explorer, View-Options.

Not sure what else to suggest.

folder.png

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is...

 

 

 

image.png

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@Jeff510  When you install, there is a question to install just for you or for all users.  If you happened to install for all users, it might be in a different path instead of under your particular user.

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2 minutes ago, eafpres said:

@Jeff510  When you install, there is a question to install just for you or for all users.  If you happened to install for all users, it might be in a different path instead of under your particular user.

It actually didn't ask, I installed from the Microsoft Store. Maybe that's different.

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The Evernote file is not kept locally.  Therefore, I have less control over my data than I want, and I can't back it up, archive etc.  I want the file kept locally and synced to your servers.  I also want the option to work locally.


If EN won't deliver local file storage, one feature that could help alleviate this concern is the ability to automate FULL backups to my local system. Currently, there is only the manual ability to export one note at a time.  This is insufficient.  This is also not in line with Evernote's commitment to allow the easy ability to move to other products.

 

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The data are stored locally.  But it's not in the same place as before and it's not the same format as before.  Every note is in its own file (actually its own subdirectory) in this directory:

 C:\Users\YOURNAME\AppData\Roaming\Evernote\resource-cache\UserXXXXXXXX

There are thousands of subdirectories there with the Evernote note link IDs.   My theory is that is why Evernote is so slow now, because it has to open and save all of these subdirectories and files, rather than the one very big file it used before.  

If you use the legacy version and the new version, then the same notes are stored in two different places on your hard drive.  Each version of the apps syncs the cloud data to one of those two places.  So if you make changes to notes using version 10 and then open up version 6, the changes that were synced to the cloud from Evernote 10 will sync back to your machine in the other location via version 6.  One problem is that you can't actually tell any more whether all of the changes have been synced under version 10.  Most of the time it was instantaneous, but sometimes the only way I could get something I saved using the Clipper to come to the local program was to shut it down and start it up again.  That's one of the many reasons I stopped using version 10, but the biggest reason was that it was impossibly slow to use.

It is disappointing that so many people are raising questions and concerns about the new version, but no one from Evernote is responding to any of us.  It would be a simple matter to post something saying "here's how things work now, and here are the things we are planning to fix."

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There may be a folders structure now, but I do not think this in itself makes a difference. Thunderbird as E-Mail client stores mails in a similar way, and is pretty fast, even with tens of thousands of mails and attachments. And in the legacy version of EN on the Mac, it is folders and files as well.

Probably EN needs to do some tuning, together with other improvements.

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1 hour ago, HDMiller said:

There are thousands of subdirectories there with the Evernote note link IDs.   My theory is that is why Evernote is so slow now, because it has to open and save all of these subdirectories and files, rather than the one very big file it used before.  

Mac users are familiar with the separate folder for each note; it doesn't slow processing
Version 10 has one big .sql file holding the all note enml code and metadata
It's no longer sqlite database storage which might add overhead to processing   
edit: The local storage is used when offline
         When online, data is accessed at the servers via the internet

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17 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Mac users are familiar with the separate folder for each note; it doesn't slow processing
Version 10 has one big .sql file holding the all note enml code and metadata
It's no longer sqlite database storage which might add overhead to processing

Definitely getting rid of the sqlite dB is important to Windows; it was a major performance problem with larger dBs. The folder per note should not be a big deal on most Windows systems. I think the slow ness is they aren't cacheing, and it's talking to the cloud all the time, but that's just a theory.  It has already improved as far as I can tell, so I feel things are heading in a good direction, and they are removing some structural barriers to making the Windows experience better.

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12 hours ago, eafpres said:

Definitely getting rid of the sqlite dB is important to Windows; it was a major performance problem with larger dBs. The folder per note should not be a big deal on most Windows systems. I think the slow ness is they aren't cacheing, and it's talking to the cloud all the time, but that's just a theory.  It has already improved as far as I can tell, so I feel things are heading in a good direction, and they are removing some structural barriers to making the Windows experience better.

I am still very concerned at the speed of any multiselect action. e.g adding a tag to a number of notes, merging etc. It seems not to be linear but take much longer than n x the time for one. I think you are right it's doing it on the cloud. Simply adding a text string  ten times to a local database could not possibly take over 10 seconds. 

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20 hours ago, HDMiller said:

The data are stored locally.  But it's not in the same place as before and it's not the same format as before.  Every note is in its own file (actually its own subdirectory) in this directory:

 C:\Users\YOURNAME\AppData\Roaming\Evernote\resource-cache\UserXXXXXXXX

There are thousands of subdirectories there with the Evernote note link IDs.   <SNIP>

Thanks for the info.  I figured the data was cached somewhere.  My issue is more about the related functionality that was in the old version such as the ability to set the location of Evernote Local files (e.g., one can then put them in a location to backup/sync).  Do we know if this resource cache contains all data?  Can I restore all of my Evernote data from a backup of this file structure? 

On a somewhat related note, I also want the ability to export all data (you can now only export individual notes) and the capability for local only databases.

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12 minutes ago, Don McK said:

I also want the ability to export all data (you can now only export individual notes)

You can export a notebook so depending on how many you have that might be a useful option.

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9 hours ago, Mike P said:

I am still very concerned at the speed of any multiselect action. e.g adding a tag to a number of notes, merging etc. It seems not to be linear but take much longer than n x the time for one. I think you are right it's doing it on the cloud. Simply adding a text string  ten times to a local database could not possibly take over 10 seconds. 

I agree this is my number one concern right now. My use model directs nearly all my newsletters, feeds etc. into a few notebooks on Evernote. I then process these as time permits. The net is that I delete a lot of these. Deleting is very slow, and hugely slow as you select more notes. Moving is equally slow, which another common use model for me.

Regarding the cloud activity--I tested with completely offline an it is still slow, so I'm unsure if that is actually a contributor.

 

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Evernote 10 is "growing" on me.  Like many others, I thought I might have to bail after 11 years using Evernote and accumulating over 16k of notes.  However, after a couple of weeks I have developed work arounds and am begining to really like this version.  However, -- and this is a big however --  I need to make certain that I own my data and I can access it if the Evernote company ever crashes and burns.  Right now I feel comfortable because I can still use the legacy version and I use Backuppery to backup my database daily.  If this ever goes away I may be forced to make a change --- and I really do not want to!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/9/2020 at 9:55 PM, joness said:

Will have to stick to the legacy version at the moment until this is clarified. It is the number one deal breaker for me. There is no way am I committing to keeping my 15,000 life records on a platform without a permanent local database - regardless of the functionality.

The frustrating part is that I have never really found a great alternative. 

I could not agree more !!

Limiting the storage V6 uses would be a good feature - just a cache as in V10 is a dealbreaker for me as well.
The ability to work offline was one of the key features for me to start using EN.

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26 minutes ago, cld said:

The ability to work offline was one of the key features for me to start using EN.

Do you realize the question was answered; there is a local database and we have the ability to work offline 

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